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May 5, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-107
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Short of ammo…. Bakhmut would not be a nice place if the cook had lots of ammo. Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 6 2023 1:33 utc | 201 @ Jazz | May 6 2023 0:19 utc | 180 Posted by: John Kennard | May 6 2023 1:35 utc | 202 I see Kadyrov’s remarks referenced twice but no complete posting of his statement. Here it is from Escobar’s Telegram:
I presumed Wagner forces would be removed from the FEBA once Bakhmut was over to possibly be replaced by the Chechens who’d been in reserve since they finished Mariupol, and that appears to be what’s going to occur. The public airing of dirty laundry gives succor to the enemy and is 100% unprofessional; but then, Prigozhin isn’t a professional. I see him as a Russian Zelensky in many ways. Retiring Wagner from the FEBA might be why Prigozhin’s in such a snit as he’s then no longer in the limelight. Anyone else seen the Wagner mockumentary about taking 3 blocks by a certain time just so they could get coordinates from a 9 storey building for the airstrike on some Tulip? Posted by: Suresh | May 6 2023 1:44 utc | 204 What some of the newbies here probably don’t understand is the geopolitic/geoeconomic war going on. It’s basically war of the worlds. Ukraine is only the spark that will ignite the planet. For good or evil. And, that’s what this is about. Cheers mates! Posted by: Immaculate deception | May 6 2023 1:44 utc | 205 @202 Apparently many east ukranians voted for Zelensky because he promised peace with Russia, but as so often with democracy polticians are turned when they get into power. Of course everything there is a charade since the us sponsored coup in 2014 overthrew the democratically elected government, because the us didnt like it. Posted by: Oh | May 6 2023 1:45 utc | 206 @ Perimetr | May 5 2023 16:47 utc | 35 Posted by: John Kennard | May 6 2023 1:46 utc | 207 @ Biswapriya Purkayast | May 6 2023 1:12 utc | 196 Posted by: John Kennard | May 6 2023 2:09 utc | 209 Supposedly an existential crisis for Russia, yet barely 10% of available reservists mobilised. Doesn’t make sense to me. Posted by: Oh | May 6 2023 2:14 utc | 210 https://twitter.com/TWMCLtd/status/1654609627034558464 Posted by: Melaleuca | May 6 2023 2:14 utc | 211 Melaleuca | May 6 2023 2:14 utc | 214 Posted by: dh | May 6 2023 2:33 utc | 212 The Dolphin @ 189 Posted by: Seer | May 6 2023 2:35 utc | 213 “The nadir of this type of offense is nuclear and the Ukrainians are not novices in this regard. Russia’s unwillingness to bite the bullet is the most dangerous position to have taken against such an enemy will go down as one of the worst approaches to fanatical fascism in warfare with such possible nuclear endings of one or another kind. Historians will then ask “What were they waiting for?” Posted by: Cerena | May 6 2023 2:44 utc | 214 Seems like the fur is about to fly. Civilians ordered to evacuate from areas s of Dnipr R, Shoigu inspected troops in that region. The easiest spots for the UAF to cause trouble for Russia are the NPP and Transnistria. Hope the evac order is not because of some knowledge about Ukrainian plans for the power station. Z was in Poland – cooking up more mischief no doubt. I think we are about to see just how evil and devious MI6 and their cohorts in the US are. Posted by: the pessimist | May 6 2023 2:50 utc | 215 Oh @ 213
Which is why you’re not a military strategist or leader of a country [I am assuming]. Posted by: Seer | May 6 2023 3:13 utc | 216
Posted by: Down South | May 6 2023 3:45 utc | 217 @221 Posted by: Oh | May 6 2023 3:47 utc | 218 Wow, I thought Gonzalo was on the Russian side of the lines. Those are not the sort of things one should say about a host country, let alone one with that kind of government and factions in it. Posted by: kassandra | May 6 2023 4:11 utc | 219 And it wasn’t for any of his opinions. He’ll eventually be deported, and that’ll be that. Posted by: K | May 6 2023 4:33 utc | 220 Posted by: kassandra | May 6 2023 4:11 utc | 224 Posted by: George | May 6 2023 4:47 utc | 221 It isn’t that Lira had this view or that view. Or that he acted dengerously. It simply brings to focus that the “democracy” Western countries claim to stand for in Ukraine is again arresting someone for thought crimes. Posted by: bobzibub | May 6 2023 5:11 utc | 222 [223] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 6 2023 5:23 utc | 223 Posted by: kassandra | May 6 2023 4:11 utc | 224 Posted by: snake | May 6 2023 5:29 utc | 224 Tom_Q_Collins@167…sounds like Gonzalo was being diplomatic, never alienate one at the other’s expense…..the old folks call it good manners. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | May 6 2023 5:35 utc | 225 Big Serge tweeted that Ukraine almost certainly attempted an counter-attack in/around Bakhut in the last 24-48 hours, which caused a spike for Wagner casualties. They failed to take any ground, though. Posted by: unimperator | May 6 2023 5:39 utc | 226
How did you think that? He’s been in Kharkov, and Russia never made a serious attempt to take the city after the first week. Posted by: shadowbanned | May 6 2023 5:40 utc | 227
That is itself concerning. Posted by: shadowbanned | May 6 2023 5:42 utc | 228
Oh but I have watched his u-tubes. Couldn’t seem to watch all the way through his sneering delivery so off-putting. Also a panel discussion he hosted in which he was dismissive at best and distainful at worst of his guests opinions. Posted by: Drinky Crow | May 6 2023 5:53 utc | 229 “Nabrezhnye writes: Posted by: unimperator | May 6 2023 5:54 utc | 230
100% correct. Posted by: shadowbanned | May 6 2023 5:59 utc | 231 I apologize if somebody else has already made these points. I ran out of time after the first hundred posts. Posted by: barstool | May 6 2023 6:05 utc | 232 A Ukrainian delegate has punched a Russian delegate in the face during a meeting of Black Sea nations after his Ukrainian flag was snatched away to stop him from photobombing a video interview, reports Al Jazeera. Posted by: rk | May 6 2023 6:12 utc | 233 You’re all losers in the end. Posted by: Organic | May 6 2023 6:13 utc | 234 Putin still isn’t going to kill Zelenski for the same reasons that he said that he wouldn’t at the begining. Killing a politician isn’t going to end a war, and Zelenski isn’t making any of the decisions, anyway. There is nothing to gain by killing him because it wouldn’t affect anything. Posted by: barstool | May 6 2023 6:14 utc | 235 A very good thread of defense-in-depth. Also on heavily layered Russian defenses in the south. Posted by: unimperator | May 6 2023 6:24 utc | 236 @Ed | May 6 2023 0:29 utc | 184
For everyone’s education: Norwegian fishermen do not operate in the Baltic Sea. We have the huge Norwegian Sea in the North Atlantic. For those in doubt, look at a map. That site is ~2000 km away from the main Norwegian fishing areas. Posted by: Norwegian | May 6 2023 6:28 utc | 237 @dh | May 6 2023 2:33 utc | 215
Indeed. I expect that to happen. So no surprise really. Posted by: Norwegian | May 6 2023 6:37 utc | 238 Per Intel Slava Z on Telegram right now “They write that “musicians” are storming the road of Chasov Yar – Bakhmut, the so-called “Road of Life”. Posted by: barstool | May 6 2023 6:37 utc | 239 Erdo also forced Ukr to change the story about the hacked Byecraptar shot over Kiiiiyyyvv. It was bad marketing. Now Ukr say they were testing Israeli systems and everything was planned training Posted by: GT Stroller | May 6 2023 6:39 utc | 240 They’re happy with the story. Be happy they didn’t bring back the old woman who attacks drones with pickle jars Posted by: rk | May 6 2023 6:45 utc | 241 >Your comment concerns me. It suggests you assume the persons in charge of the nation state have the right to use the awesome powers of the nation state to suppress the inalienable human right to communicate without interference, without monitoring, or without oversight by the nation state system or any other device. Posted by: kassandra | May 6 2023 6:54 utc | 242 Simplicu’s new article on Zaporozhye, evacuations and Bakhmut. Posted by: unimperator | May 6 2023 7:10 utc | 243 so wagner is attacking the “road of life”and a two pronged attack of whats left of ukie territory , in bakhmut. hardly the withdrawl everyone spoke of. i think you all got gamed hard. Posted by: hankster | May 6 2023 7:12 utc | 244 since everyones kicking lira while his hands are tied , literally, lets not forget to add in his financial misdeeds. theres some stuff in australia where he took over a financial advice site and disputes over missing funding etc, i wont post it but its not hard to find. i guess theres skeletons in everyones closet if the need arises to fjnd it. Posted by: hankster | May 6 2023 7:21 utc | 245 For the record, I have often enjoyed listening to Gonzalo’s comments and also I have liked many of his roundtables. I hope things turn out ok for him and his wife. Posted by: Perimetr | May 6 2023 7:29 utc | 246 Posted by: unimperator | May 6 2023 7:10 utc | 248 Posted by: rk | May 6 2023 7:37 utc | 247
OK, kill the people who are making the decisions then. Posted by: shadowbanned | May 6 2023 7:50 utc | 248
Posted by: Down South | May 6 2023 7:52 utc | 249
If the Kremlin was serious about this war, Stingers sent to Ukraine would have downed multiple western politicians’ planes at their own national airports. Or Javelins would have blown up their armored cars. They fully deserve it, and it can be fairly trivially arranged. Posted by: shadowbanned | May 6 2023 7:53 utc | 250 For the Kremlin drone nothing will happen. They’ve already blamed US for it, which means Zely is excused and everything forgotten like the NS bombs. There was no azov trial either. Posted by: rk | May 6 2023 8:02 utc | 251 Posted by: shadowbanned | May 6 2023 7:50 utc | 253 Posted by: unimperator | May 6 2023 8:10 utc | 252 Is this the false flag they have been planning all along. Posted by: Scot1and | May 6 2023 8:34 utc | 253 Kadyrov remains cool, calms the storm and steps up in solidarity.
Good luck to Gonzalo, he is on the good side here but the nazis ARE evil. Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 6 2023 8:38 utc | 254 The bar simply refuses to know who Lira is. Doesn’t want to know. Wants to pontificate. Posted by: oldhippie | May 6 2023 8:38 utc | 255 Posted by: unimperator | May 6 2023 7:10 utc | 248 Posted by: Milites | May 6 2023 8:41 utc | 256 PaulaFox #258 Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 6 2023 8:42 utc | 257 With regard to Prigozhin’s complaints, a question occurs to me – “Wagner is used in attacking movements, so who would ever attack without being certain of fire power required?” Posted by: Ново з | May 6 2023 8:42 utc | 258 With regard to Prigozhin’s complaints, a question occurs to me – “Wagner is used in attacking movements, so who would ever attack without being certain of fire power required?” Posted by: Ново з | May 6 2023 8:42 utc | 259 War in Ukraine (05/06/23): assault on Artemovsk, Seversk, Avdeevka, evacuation in the South Posted by: la bouteille | May 6 2023 8:47 utc | 260 Perimtr @ #51, you wrote “I also think it is bullshit to badmouth him when he is in the custody of the SBU, it is a chickenshit thing to do.” Posted by: Willow | May 6 2023 8:47 utc | 261 Lira is connected. Privileged and protected. Posted by: too scents | May 6 2023 8:47 utc | 262 rk #238 Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 6 2023 8:48 utc | 263
That touches on an important issue — a conventional decapitation strike against the West is only possible on occasions such as this, when there is a large concentration of elites. There are many reasons to want it to be conventional — i.e. you don’t want to destroy everything, and perhaps there are people in the military on the other side who are sick and tired of dealing with sick demented lunatics internally, and who will make a deal after that to stop it there. While if you nuke them, they will launch everything back too. Posted by: shadowbanned | May 6 2023 8:49 utc | 264 Does new evacuation of Zaporozhye mean that Russia is going to leave that area? Posted by: Srbin | May 6 2023 8:50 utc | 265 shadowbanned #270 Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 6 2023 8:54 utc | 266
That’s the established pattern so far. Posted by: shadowbanned | May 6 2023 8:59 utc | 267 too scents @ 268 Posted by: oldhippie | May 6 2023 9:19 utc | 268 You believe in Onshoring and I know it is political BS Posted by: PalmaSailor | May 6 2023 9:24 utc | 269 Apologies to Bevin. But Charlie Chaplin showed parody can be a powerful force. Posted by: Lev Davidovich | May 6 2023 9:26 utc | 270 You think Lira is a stranger to the CIA? Posted by: too scents | May 6 2023 9:28 utc | 271 https://t.me/NovichokRossiya/29976
Posted by: anon2020 | May 6 2023 9:33 utc | 272 Re Chile, the Americans boasted of “making the economy scream” so the country’s economic problems were to some extent at least externally manufactured. Posted by: Waldorf | May 6 2023 9:34 utc | 273 ” We pay a terrible price”: Ukrainian general pointed out mistakes in the defense of Bakhmut. General Krivonos: Ukrainian Armed Forces suffer losses in Bakhmut, which was not prepared for defense at all Posted by: unimperator | May 6 2023 9:43 utc | 274 Srbin #271 Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 6 2023 9:47 utc | 275 … Not all of us are stupid here. Try to remember that. Posted by: anon2020 | May 6 2023 9:48 utc | 276 too scents @ 277 Posted by: oldhippie | May 6 2023 9:59 utc | 277 Blood ties never end. Posted by: too scents | May 6 2023 10:05 utc | 278 Posted by: HERMIUS | May 6 2023 0:08 utc | 177 Posted by: Greg Galloway | May 6 2023 10:09 utc | 279 Posted by: Suresh | May 6 2023 1:44 utc | 206 Posted by: Greg Galloway | May 6 2023 10:16 utc | 280 https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1654761734685556736
For the hundredth time, Where are the 9M526/9M532/9M533 shells?
I haven’t seen a single mention of these being used so far… Posted by: shadowbanned | May 6 2023 10:16 utc | 281 Human rights activist from Poland spoke about the sale of Ukrainian children to Europe. Joanna Pakhvicevich said that from the beginning of the SVO she knew that such situations would happen, and now their frequency is progressing Posted by: Exile | May 6 2023 10:17 utc | 282 @ Greg Galloway | May 6 2023 10:09 utc | 285 Posted by: John Kennard | May 6 2023 10:18 utc | 283 Posted by: la bouteille | May 6 2023 8:47 utc | 266 Posted by: Paco | May 6 2023 10:23 utc | 284 The issue of the bio-weapons labs in Ukraine hasn’t gone away. Amarynth at Global South covers the latest Russian briefing here: https://globalsouth.co/2023/05/05/briefing-by-chief-of-nuclear-biological-and-chemical-protection-troops-of-russian-armed-forces/ Posted by: West of England Andy | May 6 2023 10:23 utc | 285 I am pretty sad to hear about Gonzalo , we are all being taken out now simply for having an argument. Sick and fed up living in a world like this where people just bend over and take it without fighting. I hoped and prayed RF and China were out to stop this but right now I just see bad and defeat meanwhile everyone waves flags to our new WEF king. Just seems more and more we are living in a Trueman show and RF and China are in a big George Soros plan. Please give me some good news this week Posted by: Scot1and | May 6 2023 10:25 utc | 286 Posted by: Ed | May 6 2023 1:10 utc | 195 Posted by: Greg Galloway | May 6 2023 10:30 utc | 287 Posted by: John Kennard | May 6 2023 10:18 utc | 289 Posted by: Greg Galloway | May 6 2023 10:33 utc | 288 Tsarev today – Posted by: unimperator | May 6 2023 10:38 utc | 289 Another terrorist atack, this time against Zakhar Prilepin, excellent writer, friend of the late Darya Dugina and Limonov, Prigozhin has an encouraging message for him since it seems the terrorist atack failed to take his life, he might be injured though, we’ll find out later. Goes to show who is the side that is fighting for TOTAL victory, no arrangements, no deals, we’re tired to hear how the west is not agreement capable, so go for it till the end, there is no alternative, it is either that or the dissapearence of Russia as we know it, following the very well known pattern of the USSR and Yugoslavia. Posted by: Paco | May 6 2023 10:38 utc | 290 Paco | May 6 2023 10:23 utc | 290 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 6 2023 10:43 utc | 291 Two months ago, Defense Politics Asia, shouted with exclamations that a mass withdrawal from Bakhmut had started, “Mass Ukrainian Withdrawal NOW Underway!!!” Posted by: Anonymous | May 6 2023 10:48 utc | 292 Posted by: karlof1 | May 6 2023 1:42 utc | 205 Posted by: juliania | May 6 2023 10:48 utc | 293 This Bakhmut-Prighozin-Kadyrov-May 10th-pullout thing is really getting corny/laughable. Talk about play-acting! Posted by: The Dolphin | May 6 2023 10:51 utc | 294 I tend to see it like
So there would be high Russian officials, supported by the West, working to sabotage the SMO. Such as by limiting ammunition deliveries to Wagner, as Prigozhin has been claiming for weeks. Shoigu denies this is happening, but if Prigozhin is right, Shoigu (and others) might just be traitors. Which reminded me of the comment that one Igor Vuksanovic posted here on April 3rd, and I’ll repost some excerpts of it:
There is a tendency to disqualify such posters as “trolls”, but this is not what I’m doing – they bring in information worth considering, if only as a “working hypothesis” that may (and I hope: will) be refuted. Posted by: grunzt | May 6 2023 10:57 utc | 295 > This was the rant of a man filled with hate Posted by: passingthrough | May 6 2023 10:59 utc | 296 too scents @ 284 Posted by: oldhippie | May 6 2023 11:06 utc | 297 The issue of the bio-weapons labs in Ukraine hasn’t gone away. Posted by: rk | May 6 2023 11:07 utc | 298 …Meanwhile, Wagners will regroup, and pop up, say, coming south into Kharkiv from Belgorod;… Posted by: Ново з | May 6 2023 11:15 utc | 299 …Meanwhile, Wagners will regroup, and pop up, say, coming south into Kharkiv from Belgorod;… Posted by: Ново з | May 6 2023 11:15 utc | 300 |
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