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May 5, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-107
Comments
Anton Gorbatow @73. I’m sorry but I cannot agree with you or anyone who holds this view. Pregorzhin was way way out of line (as he has been for the last 8 weeks). There is no playing good cop bad cop. President Putin would absolutely not play this kind of stupid game. Preghorzin to me, seems to be suffering from a case of ‘power through controversy’. The things he said, if listened to carefully, indicate that he is increasingly delusional and narcisstic. He claimed Wagner won Syria, in his previous speech, he heavily criticised all other private PMCs fighting in Ukraine and a lot more. Listen to him carefully. The video graphically showing around 35 soldiers who died that day is horrific and show just how far Pregorzhin has lost all reason. This was the rant of a man filled with hate, in a highly toxic state of emotion and of someone who believed he was all powerful by issuing extraordinary and untrue statements about the MOD and Russian Military in the self-deluded belief that he was all powerful. There is no way army in the world or Government for that fact, would tolerate this level of aggression, insubordination. Best he goes back to Africa. They are leaving Bakhmut on 10/5/2023 and that is for the best. A more professional commander or a Chechen division will be sent there instead who can restore morale and finish the operation.
If I were the RF Security Council I would not allow him back to the theatre in Ukraine however successful Wagner has been (impressively so in fact).
Let’s stop this ‘Putin’s in on this secret game’ rubbish. The truth is, Pregorzhin has become a bit of a megalomaniac believing he is superior and better to anyone else. Not a stable entity on a battlefield.
Posted by: Jo Dominich | May 5 2023 20:33 utc | 101
Ukraine still controls approximately 3 square kilometers (1,16 square miles) of Bakhmut area. I believe it’s all burning now. They might still have thousands of troops concentrated on that area, which should be nearly roasted.
Posted by: unimperator | May 5 2023 20:34 utc | 102
“Chechen troops will replace Wagner PMC units in Bakhmut, says Ramazan Kadyrov.”
So, no more Mr. Nice Guy.
That’s a replacement group that might make the AFU miss the Orchestra. They’ll presumably be relatively fresh.
Posted by: Babel-17 | May 5 2023 20:34 utc | 103
@ Offensive will 100% begin before 15th May – Prigozhin
Posted by: A200 | May 5 2023 15:56 utc | 1
What to say about this ill disciplined, self absorbed clown. He managed to undo in minutes everything he achieved with his Wagner enterprise over the past 8 years. Between the Kremlin drone attack and Primaghonnazhin’s tirade, the Russian war machine has looked like a totally dysfunctional clown show in the past few days, even outdoing the recent Pentagon/CIA leaks. Not a good look all round.
Keep up the one sided simping folks, if that is the extent of your intellect, i’m just calling things as i see them.
Posted by: Et Tu | May 5 2023 20:34 utc | 104
Posted by: Drinky Crow | May 5 2023 18:44 utc
Ofc I watched his tubes , if you would have done it too you would have known that he never regarded himself as untouchable, so I doubt you watched his vids , btw. pretty comfortable to judge over ppl from a warm couch, right ??
Posted by: Publicdisorder | May 5 2023 20:34 utc | 105
If this thread is truly curated, how does the crap from posters like Peter AU1 ever make it to the thread. Takes up space, has no useful content, and is always full of depreciating, confrontational BS that is simply intended to dilute and distract from the subject at hand!
Posted by: wilhelm | May 5 2023 20:38 utc | 106
” Let’s stop this ‘Putin’s in on this secret game’ rubbish. The truth is, Pregorzhin has become a bit of a megalomaniac believing he is superior and better to anyone else. Not a stable entity on a battlefield.
Posted by: Jo Dominich | May 5 2023 20:33 utc | 102 ”
Lets stop assuming your opinion is the only valid one.
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | May 5 2023 20:39 utc | 107
@ Deplorable Commissar, §§29, 30:
I think it was seen in particular countries at particular times, e.g. England under Attlee, Czechoslovakia under Masaryk and, maybe, America under Jefferson, Africans excluded. Russia under Putin seems to be in an analogous phase, with similar hopes.
I think most civilized humans agree with them, even if they´ve never yet been achieved world-wide.
Posted by: John Marks | May 5 2023 20:43 utc | 108
Why is Lira living in Ukraine in the first place? He’s not a native Ukrainian, is he? Why choose to live in Ukraine of all places? And then spout pro-Russia propaganda from there? Nothing about that makes any sense.
Posted by: just somebody | May 5 2023 16:33 utc
He is married to a Ukrainian who has family ties in the area. Simple. Moreover, he is expressing his own views which is no more “spouting pro-(or anti) Russian propaganda” than anyone here or elsewhere expressing their own personal views. That includes yourself.
Posted by: nwwoods | May 5 2023 20:49 utc | 109
Lira is a professional sexual harasser and probably finds the situation in Ukraine, with a bunch of men being shipped to the front and their wives left behind, very amenable.
Posted by: fnord | May 5 2023 16:40 utc | 31
I don’t suppose your reply would be projection, would it?
Posted by: nwwoods | May 5 2023 20:52 utc | 110
Deplorable Commissioner @109. I never assume my opinion is the only valid one. Thats why I enjoy this Site because there are a variety of opinions, views and lively debate.
Posted by: Jo Dominich | May 5 2023 20:52 utc | 111
He is married to a Ukrainian who has family ties in the area. Simple. Moreover, he is expressing his own views which is no more “spouting pro-(or anti) Russian propaganda” than anyone here or elsewhere expressing their own personal views. That includes yourself.
Posted by: nwwoods | May 5 2023 20:49 utc | 110
The issue is that Ukraine has certain strict laws on what you are allowed to say and that isn’t very much, it’s quite totalitarian by now. Have a look at the following info (written by a Ukrainian, in German but should be easily machine translatable by your browser):
https://www.nachdenkseiten.de/?p=97237
Posted by: Zet | May 5 2023 21:03 utc | 112
There is no limit to downgrading your self
GERMAN COURT ALLOWS UKRAINIAN FLAGS AT MEMORIALS ON MAY 8 AND 9
The administrative court of Berlin lifted the ban on the placement of Ukrainian flags on Soviet memorials in Treptov, Tiergarten and Schönholzer-Heide, the Ukrainian organization of young Ukrainians in Germany “Vitsche” reported.
Formerly Berlin police banned Russian and Ukrainian flags, as well as orchestras around Soviet memorials on May 8 and 9 to commemorate the 78th anniversary of the end of World War II in Europe. Similar prohibition acted at May events in Berlin and last year.
The lifting of the ban applies only to Ukrainian flags and orchestras, Russian ones remain banned.
https://zn.ua/ukr/WORLD/nimetskij-sud-dozvoliv-ukrajinski-prapori-bilja-memorialiv-8-i-9-travnja.html
It’s all evil and respectless, they could have said tahat this year we will have a year of silence remeberance. NO- double down- increase russiaphobia
Posted by: Paul from Norway | May 5 2023 21:09 utc | 113
I wonder if Lira was sort of tolerated because he is Anglophone and arresting him is not a good look. If he had been Russian-speaking he would have been locked up a long time ago, in my opinion.
Posted by: Waldorf | May 5 2023 21:12 utc | 114
I hope Outraged is OK and just taking a break for their own reasons. I know I’ve become a little desensitized and even annoyed by coverage and discussion of this war. Everybody has their own pet theories about every aspect of it. I find it hard to even scan the Ukraine threads too much anymore for lack of any real breakthroughs and the constant reminder of the carnage that Uncle Scam perpetuates. Regarding Wagner and the Chechens – I’ve seen a few of the regulars here make guesses as to what’s really going on, but where is the huge mobilized Russian military force and when will they assume a leading role in ending this war?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 21:13 utc | 115
I don’t suppose your reply would be projection, would it?
Posted by: nwwoods | May 5 2023 20:52 utc | 111
Re: Lira, you are aware of his previous history as a “PUA” (pickup artist) influencer? He did have some sexual harassment allegations as well. I’m not judging him one way or the other besides to echo the sentiment that he’s an idiot for staying in Ukraine after having already been detained at least once prior.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 21:15 utc | 116
mauro. # 4
I suspect that this might be merely a ploy by Russia and Wagner to encourage Ukraine to concentrate their attack on Bahkmut when they launch their offensive. Even if Wagner’s light infantry were to withdraw, Bahkmut is almost surrounded by regular Russian troops with massive artillery. Unlike Ukraine, Russia can also move tanks and BMPs into Bahkmut using paved roads rather than mud bogs.
Of course launching a few Kinzahls into the Ukrainian parliament building and Presidential palace simultaneously with annihilating Ukraine’s offensive forces as they assault Bahkmut will effectively end the war.
Now popping popcorn.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 5 2023 21:16 utc | 117
Jeering at a man who, whether one likes his views or sympathises with his political principles, regularly and publicly challenges the Nazis terrorising Ukraine tells us a lot about the character of the person doing the jeering. And the society which produced him
It would seem that Gonzalo Lira is in trouble. The people holding him are notoriously violent and sadistic.
We should be making it clear, unanimously, that we are aware that any harm done to Lira will be done with the obvious consent of our several governments.
For those who need a personal incentive before acting with common decency, consider this: if our British, Canadian , German…whatever, government is allowed to authorise Lira’s ill treatment by refusing to declare, publicly, that nobody ought to be tortured and that any harm coming to Lira, or any other prisoner, will be denounced, the chances of your government abusing your rights and making you the victim of extra legal violence will be considerably increased.
The charges against Lira might be preferred against 90% of those commenting here.
For the people of Ukraine the war is a tragedy visited upon them by arrogant and greedy foreigners, including not a few who are the descendants of criminals who escaped justice. For too many commenters here it is a Roman Circus, an entertainment no less amusing because the blood and the distant sounds of children screaming are real.
Posted by: bevin | May 5 2023 21:18 utc | 118
Re: Lira – I suppose there is often a very blurry line between bravery and stupidity; one that is not discernable from the distance at which most of us read and comment. If, in fact, he’s stayed on in Ukraine after being picked up before and knowing the brutal savagery of his tormentors because he’s brave (a martyr even) then by comparison I’d be a coward. My family and I would have fled long since, or at least tried. But perhaps there’s a chance they did try to flee and were blocked from doing so. I don’t personally know. I’m still leaning toward stupidity, though, as I attempt to discern the center of that blurry line.
That said, anyone jeering him for completely unrelated allegations (ala Assange) or cheering for his captors is truly a coward.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 21:27 utc | 119
The Jewish capitalist class is fighting so hard against Russia, only for their Banderite formations to be destroyed. This is what we are seeing in Artemovsk. The SBU, Azov, also run by Jews have ties to Israel. Which as many people know, holds the world in chains. So, when you make comments against Russia, you are siding with the Jewish Order. Supporting Russia is the way to free the world from the Jewish bankers and their puppets(America, Ukraine, Europe). And of course, the satanic influence of the Jews must be removes as soon as Russia finishea off the Nazis in Ukraine.
Posted by: FortuneAlpno | May 5 2023 21:28 utc | 120
“where is the huge mobilized Russian military force and when will they assume a leading role in ending this war?” -Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 21:13 utc | 116
Russia doesn’t want to end the war. It is serving them very well; the “west” is mired in economic decline, NATO is hemoraging ammunition and gear, the RoW is seeing the light at the end of the tunnel of US hegemony …
Posted by: Figleaf23 | May 5 2023 21:33 utc | 121
Re Lira, he has been accused of having a “hero complex”.
Perhaps there is a thin line between bravery and stupidity.
A historical example – perhaps one of many – might be a man called John Stone. He was an Austin Friar in Canterbury, belonging to the same order in fact as Martin Luther. When his friary was wound up by Thomas Cromwell’s commissioners, Stone refused to take the oath naming Henry as head of the church in England – Stone is quoted as saying that the head had to be spiritual and “appointed by God” and that could not be a king. This was considered to be treason. He was imprisoned and after refusing several times to take the oath, he was hanged, drawn and quartered in 1539. The bill for his execution has survived. Ann of Cleves landed in England about the same time on her ill-fated expedition to marry Henry and passed through Canterbury – she may have witnessed the execution.
Was Stone brave or stupid? Everyone else in his order gave way, and resistance meant a horrible death. Stone was canonised by the Catholic Church in 1970.
Posted by: Waldorf | May 5 2023 21:43 utc | 122
Posted by: SkepticalThinker | May 5 2023 21:35 utc | 123
Agree completely with your last paragraph. Lira has said some pretty nasty things including support for Pinochet in the past. I hope he’s learning and growing, but also that he can GTFO of Ukraine alive with family intact.
As for PeterAU1 I haven’t been tracking these threads very closely – generally I chime in near the end and they’ve been reaching near-record length making it very time consuming to parse through. But I don’t agree that what he posts is always devoid of any value. After all, MoA fashions itself a “bar” and people talk about all sorts of things at bars (and while drinking – which I think Peter has confessed to a few times). I can’t recall anything he’s written that would be in line with NAFO bullshit, but again I haven’t been tracking too closely so perhaps my own “contributions” are also less than fully valuable.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | May 5 2023 21:33 utc | 122
That is probably a good point. I don’t know the extent or depth at which that line of thinking has been embraced in Moscow, but there has never been a war in human history that becomes more popular as it drags on rather than less. There will be a political price to pay for not ending it sooner rather than later, and decisively so. Dragging it out to bleed the west (which of course is what Uncle Scam is attempting in reverse) without stated and achievable aims of benefiting all Russians (or Ukrainians) – especially the working class – is irresponsible to human life and liberty. As far as I know, Putin and his backers are capitalists – looking our for their own class interests. Smedley Butler said it a long time ago: “Every war is a banker’s war.”
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 21:45 utc | 123
I guess I should have actually checked before commenting, not that my general sentiments about Peter have changed, but this seems way out of left field and completely O/T.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 5 2023 18:17 utc | 69
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 21:52 utc | 124
Posted by: FortuneAlpno | May 5 2023 21:28 utc | 121
Troll nonsense not welcome here.
Posted by: Lev Davidovich | May 5 2023 21:55 utc | 125
i think that silly post by peter was in fact a particularly cruel fake. it is totally out of character.
hey people what is it with the Wagner worship . the guy is a mercenary and like all such is dangerous and possibly treacherous. a few months ago one of his senior staff defected. i say hmmmmmmmmmmm.
there is a presidential election coming up in 24. seems bloody obvious tha priz and meddev are jockeying to win. i trust neither.
Posted by: watcher | May 5 2023 21:58 utc | 126
Various scenes from Bakmut
Over the past 24 hours, the FIRMS fire monitoring system from NASA has recorded several large fires on the western outskirts of Bakhmut (Artemivsk), where the remnants of the Ukrainian garrison hold their positions.
https://t.me/NovichokRossiya/29945
I’m not there,so I can’t judge, but the Ukrainians themselves are saying there’s no Russian artillery shortage in Bakhmut, and looking at these photos and videos…is this really shell hunger?
https://t.me/NovichokRossiya/29947?single
Short Scene
https://t.me/NovichokRossiya/29950?single
Posted by: SattaMassaGana | May 5 2023 22:02 utc | 127
To be sure, the reason zelensky is touring countries in Europe, whilst drones hit the kremlin (but not enough to ACTUALLY assasinate Putin as that would be too dangerous), is to show how he, Zelensky, has the ability to travel unhindered around the world, whilst Putin is bunkered in a hideout in Moscow and prevented from travelling outside the country for fear of arrest.
Thats whats going on here…..
Posted by: HERMIUS | May 5 2023 22:03 utc | 128
Tom_Q_Collins, Putin is NOT part of the capitalist class. Yes he has acquired some wealth, but it is nothing compared to the Jewish elite in Russia. The parasites have bled Russia dry since the fall of the USSR. Putin has been fighting this elite class. He is for the people and working class. Jews and states like Zelensky, Israel, US, are the enemies of the working class and the citizenry of the world. (China is ran by its own branch of Jewish tyrants).
Posted by: FortuneAlpno | May 5 2023 22:03 utc | 129
Posted by: watcher | May 5 2023 21:58 utc | 128
Ah yes, the body snatchers. Quite a bit of effort went into that one and I should have known better as both Peter and I have had our identities here stolen. In fact, I expect a nasty little Tom Q Collins post is imminent now. Time to start re-introducing an ‘easter egg’ in every comment, I guess. One’s present in this one.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 22:04 utc | 130
Gonzalo arrested again? why he didn’t leave the country after his first arrest
Posted by: publicdisorder | May 5 2023 16:28 utc
Or, if he was unable to leave for some reason, why did he continue to talk about the war after having been arrested for talking about the war?
Posted by: Simon | May 5 2023 22:06 utc | 131
Not the other Fnord. But, good luck with chechens against fortified positions, hoho.
Posted by: Fnord73 | May 5 2023 22:11 utc | 132
@68 noname yes I can explain. I’m thinking that a slo mo smo is good strategy, but if they aren’t going to keep up aggressive pressure all along the front to locate and destroy enemy forces then the smo is over and its in defeat territory.
So I’m thinking they’ve been leaving gaps in the defenses around bahkmut and have given up surrounding adveeka, giving a straight shot to donetsk and sverdonetsk. They should have mobilized reserves on hand…but I’ve seen virtually no reports detailing their activities leading me to believe its more paper soldiers with commanders pocketing their pay.
So unless shoigu and gerasimov show up with something pretty impressive there’s no reason to believe russia is war capable anymore.
Which is a shame. The lgbtqia++ imperialists disgust me, and I would’ve really liked to see them get a bloody nose. Far too long they get to sit back and get bullet absorbing fools take the heat for them. They don’t even appreciate it, they relish it even.
I await more info, but lavrovs statement is puke worthy. Strap him to a t72 along with putin I guess.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 5 2023 22:11 utc | 133
Some of the comments today very vulgar and simply stupid: big troll offensive? I hope, B, you notice and do not let deteriorate it further.
Posted by: Anthony | May 5 2023 22:14 utc | 134
The scenes of Artemovsk looking like Tokyo during the firing bombing are apparently real, people in TG have geolocated landmarks.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 5 2023 22:18 utc | 135
Someone posted a link to an Italian guy by the name of Nicolai Nilin, thanks for the link, a good analisys of power struggles and their historical origin, plus good to practice a bit of Italian. Prestige, the key word, who and when declares victory in Bakhmut, and beyond with all its consequences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FMSAo31ffs
Posted by: Paco | May 5 2023 22:20 utc | 136
Ive no doubt at all that the ukes will be complegtely turfed out of Artemovsk before May 9th. Thats why Wagner are leaving on the 10th.
Theyre finishing the job off right now. Its a hot night in Artemovsk!
Posted by: HERMIUS | May 5 2023 22:22 utc | 137
“..why did he continue to talk about the war after having been arrested for talking about the war?”
Simon@133
What would you have done in his place? Changed your tune, to save your skin? Have you ever heard of people who always say what they think and refuse to be silent when they see what they regard as wrong?
Posted by: bevin | May 5 2023 22:23 utc | 138
Posted by: FortuneAlpno | May 5 2023 22:03 utc | 131
Leaving aside the whole Jewish thing, do you have any sources regarding Putin’s actions over the years designed to benefit the working class at the expense of the capitalist class? I’m not being disingenuous here as I’d really like to see it. Going to war with a few oligarchs isn’t really what I’m talking about, BTW. We all know about that. I guess what I’m interested in is investments in public education, the public health care system in Russia, protections for workers (incl. ability to strike), and general programs with the stated aim of empowering the working class and poor to a degree greater than what you’d see in the USSA or UK.
Also, as much as some of it is pure propaganda, I don’t think it’s disputable that Putin has become very rich. How rich is really the question, and since I don’t trust western propaganda outlets, I tend to believe it’s somewhere in the middle of what Russia says vs. what the western press says.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 22:25 utc | 139
Posted by: bevin | May 5 2023 22:23 utc | 140
Even if that’s correct, it would seem that he has also endangered his family in Ukraine as well. Again, knowing the depths of depravity of which the Banderites are capable, it really would have been more prudent to either stop talking about what the Nazis warned him about and/or to get himself and his family to safety. I’ll reiterate what I said earlier; it’s possible that he did try to do that but was prevented from doing so and has decided “fuck it” – I’ll keep saying what I believe despite the danger to myself and my family/friends. Hence it isn’t possible to completely dismiss the angle of selfishness.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 22:28 utc | 140
Peter AU1 | May 5 2023 18:17 utc | 69
Oh. The post number. Hee-lairy-ass.
Don’t worry PeterAu. I know it’s a nameTroll.
But. I did laugh.
Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 21:52 utc | 126
Cmon TQC. Your lengthy tenure here. You’ve gotta know that Post”69” isn’t just “out of character”. It’s a slimy nameTroll.
HERMIUS | May 5 2023 22:03 utc | 130
It may be *intended* to show ClownZ is free to roam, while Putin must stay home.
But it also has the optics of a guy desperate for friends, and desperate, while Putin looks like someone focused and in control.
Where’s outraged … he’s needed on Aisles 6+9
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 5 2023 22:31 utc | 141
The fact that Russia is refusing to supply ammo to the greatest hero of the SMO is an absolute Horror. These people know or care nothing about presentation and information lobby. Just a gang of incompetent political stooges if I were Putin I’d have them SHOT.
Posted by: William White | May 5 2023 22:32 utc | 142
Hence it isn’t possible to completely dismiss the angle of selfishness.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 22:28 utc | 142
—
Gonzalo Lira selfish? Shirley you jest.
Posted by: too scents | May 5 2023 22:33 utc | 143
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 5 2023 22:31 utc | 143
Yes. Point taken.
Posted by: HERMIUS | May 5 2023 22:35 utc | 144
@Zet 113
if I may expand on Zet´s recommendations:
if you click on the name of the author of that item you get futher hits:
https://www.nachdenkseiten.de/?gastautor=maxim-goldarb
Goldarb was responsible for the Treasury of the Ukrainian MoD until Maidan.
He was member of the Party of the “Union of Leftits”, which has been outlawed.
And this here from a few week ago (may be I posted it back then):
Andrej Hunko, MP from the Left Party and formerly of the OSCE monitoring mission, about his research on the “Mirotworez” terrorist list from the Ukr. government:
https://www.nachdenkseiten.de/?p=96257
These are all helpful for discussions outside the bar, where people think you are nuts.
None of above texts can be dicarded easily as propaganda or whatever they like to label it.
I am stressing this point here from time to time since this conflict will accompany us for a very long time now and with it the “war” over opinions and “narratives”.
Unfortunately so.
Posted by: AG | May 5 2023 22:42 utc | 145
We have more video of the Ukrainians evacuating Bahkmut:
https://youtu.be/grbSQ6O6kbs
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 5 2023 22:46 utc | 146
Posted by: AG | May 5 2023 22:42 utc | 147
Thank you for pointing out further details re Goldarb and Nachdenkseiten. It’s a great resource, unfortunately only in German.
Posted by: Zet | May 5 2023 22:47 utc | 147
Nice piece of theatre by Prig to keep the Bakhmut meat grinder in operation. All staged of course. Amazed how some are taken in by it.
Re Lira, big respect to the guy, angry at the avoidable destruction of the country by neo cons. Those who hide indoors while others take on the beast should not cast stones.
Posted by: Oh | May 5 2023 22:47 utc | 148
Simon @ 133
Or, if he was unable to leave for some reason, why did he continue to talk about the war after having been arrested for talking about the war?
Good question. I followed him from the very start before the SMO and then regularly when he was doing his outside walk and talks from Kiev living in that “Grande Hotel” there in the first few weeks of the SMO. That insider your are there he provided was fascinating, as was his on the run to more Russian friendly and soon to be liberated Kharkov, or so he hoped.
Why he kept on talking about the war after his arrest seemed like some combination of hubris, self righteousness, self immolation and madness but humans are complex animals and in the right combination all those things can add up to courage and in the right circumstance virtue. If bits and bytes survive the apocalypse he will have his two paragraphs in the history of this time (as will MoA).
I followed Lira long enough to make a judgment and whatever his flaws I wish him God’s grace. The right thing for the SBU to do now is what they should have done the first time, hand him over to the USA embassy and say get this ass out of here for his own good. Had they done it the first time he would just have been another schmo on youtube.
As for his being a Pinochet fascist I’m not so sure, he’s too much of an anarchist for that.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 5 2023 22:51 utc | 149
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 5 2023 22:31 utc | 143
Yes, I finally figured that out. Should have occurred to me immediately given the “name troll” or “body snather’s” previous preference to hijack Peter and myself over most other regular commenters.
BTW – Is anyone else having intermittent issues connecting to MoA or with comments? Twice now I’ve timed out and been redirected to MoA’s hosting service error page.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 22:55 utc | 150
Prigozin is a clown.
Lira is a dumb clown. You dont remain in 1939 Berlin and preach about Jewish rights online.
Smh
Posted by: Comandante | May 5 2023 22:59 utc | 151
@153 It is clear that both those gentlemen have achieved far more than you likely ever will. SMH.
Posted by: Oh | May 5 2023 23:07 utc | 152
LIRA ARREST VID.
https://twitter.com/The_Real_Fly/status/1654588212361265152
So. I guess the used sock salesman really was in Kharkov.
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 5 2023 23:07 utc | 153
“@153 It is clear that both those gentlemen have achieved far more than you likely ever will. SMH.
Posted by: Oh | May 5 2023 23:07 utc | 154”
And yet both will be remembered as class A clowns.
“Let me do a tiktok vid next to these trashbags”
“Im the Ukranian Anne Frank”
LoL
Posted by: Comandante | May 5 2023 23:15 utc | 155
Posted by: Jo Dominich | May 5 2023 20:33 utc | 102
Totally agree. Pregozhin is not all of Wagner. Watch how they adjust.
Posted by: migueljose | May 5 2023 23:15 utc | 156
Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 22:25 utc | 141
>… Putin has become very rich…
Yep. His FSB training had him tap Diane F and Nancy P for stock trading tips….
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 5 2023 23:17 utc | 157
Re: Lira, you are aware of his previous history as a “PUA” (pickup artist) influencer? He did have some sexual harassment allegations as well. I’m not judging him one way or the other besides to echo the sentiment that he’s an idiot for staying in Ukraine after having already been detained at least once prior.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 21:15 utc | 117
The Hollywood Writer’s Strike has come to Moon. A chain smoker like Lira might be an aggressive looker, but he sure won’t be a Marathoner in bed.
To Zelenski “moving freely” throughout Europe.
Let’s see Z walk the streets without armed security and I will apologize for being a doubter.
Posted by: kupkee | May 5 2023 23:18 utc | 158
Oooops.
Should’ve said Putin’s KGB training.
That frightens the kiddies a lot more than “FSB”.
Funny how few were ever concerned with GHWB CIA career.
Or his whereabouts in Dallas that day..
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 5 2023 23:23 utc | 159
Russia and China. Two of the great powers that have never conducted genocides.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 5 2023 16:52 utc | 42
The ignorance of that comment is off the scale. Ever heard of Stalin (6 million)? Mao (35-45 Million)? Even Soviet Leader Nikita Khrushchev has acknowledged Stalin’s mass murder.
Posted by: Longhorn | May 5 2023 23:31 utc | 160
Ever heard of Stalin (6 million)? Mao (35-45 Million)? Even Soviet Leader Nikita Khrushchev has acknowledged Stalin’s mass murder.
Posted by: Longhorn | May 5 2023 23:31 utc | 162
So Georgia committed genocide did they?
Posted by: HERMIUS | May 5 2023 23:36 utc | 161
Posted by: kupkee | May 5 2023 23:18 utc | 160
I’m far more troubled by Lira’s embrace of fascists like Pinochet and his views on “the left” than I am about any alleged peccadillos or stupid shit like trying to be a pickup artist influencer (or any kind of influencer – a moronic thing). Frankly, I have probably mentioned his name and actually thought about him more in the span of time between my first comment today and now than I ever had before, combined.
Suffice it to say that as much as I may disagree with him on some things and think he’s more than a little stupid (or unlucky) for not GingTFO of Dodge with his family (or at least toning down his online presence) after the first time he was rounded up, I still hope they are safe and that the Banderite Nazi scum doesn’t hurt them.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 23:45 utc | 162
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 5 2023 23:17 utc | 159
Barely merits mention these days how corrupt the US Government and most elected representatives are – on both sides of the mostly imaginary aisle. Feinstein and Pelosi probably pale in comparison to some of the Republican grifters over the years. Maybe not as much as Chuck Schumer though – I can’t wait for it all to come out proving he’s been taking literal bribes from Wall Street for decades.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 23:48 utc | 163
So Georgia committed genocide did they?
Posted by: HERMIUS | May 5 2023 23:36 utc | 163
Stalin may have been Georgian but the genocide was directed from the Kremlin…which last time I looked, was in Russia.
Posted by: Longhorn | May 5 2023 23:53 utc | 164
Since the Pinochet thing keeps coming up, here’s Lira engaging in a bit of ‘both-sidesism’ in justifying or apologizing for what happened in Chile while doing his best to minimize the brutality of Pinochet.
https://twitter.com/GonzaloLira1968/status/1542599307936890880
https://vk.com/wall393917182_3374
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 23:54 utc | 165
This is from the vid of Prigozhin sitting on a couch. Maybe not kayfabe. Strong stuff, too strong. Maybe Russia forming PMCs is on par with the USA having created a permanent CIA army. Bad idea all around. Beats me, hope the future brings good things and happy days to both Lira and Russia.
Shoigu and Gerasimov will bear responsibility for tens of thousands of dead and wounded. I will achieve this – Prigogine.
“Officers do not fulfill their duties. They don’t use what they were taught. Gerasimov was taught, but Shoigu, as far as I know, not. And therefore, their lack of professionalism is ruining tens of thousands of Russian guys.
https://t.me/vorposte/39532
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 5 2023 23:56 utc | 166
Posted by: Longhorn | May 5 2023 23:53 utc | 166
No “genocide” was directed from anywhere. Produce the since declassified Soviet documents that demonstrate an intentional mass killing or drop it already. You should also look into the actual genocide that is routinely lied about called the “Irish Potato Famine” – more accurately referred to as “The British Mercantile Genocide of Ireland.”
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 5 2023 23:56 utc | 167
This thread is almost unreadable, due to the 3/4 trolling posts… a whole bunch of new ones. My notebook page is getting full… Deplorable is not eschewing his name as his posts are just that – deplorable. Meh, so many new, or renamed trolls taking over.
Wow, only about 1/3 is from the usual barflies.
Posted by: Arcticman | May 5 2023 23:56 utc | 168
Lira’s point was that the commie revolutionistas in Chile were bringing the economy and life of Chile to its knees, and Pinochet stopped the anarchy. Margaret Thatcher approved btw.
Posted by: Oh | May 5 2023 23:59 utc | 169
text about the EU´s:
“European Parliament investigation into ‘Foreign Interference in all Democratic Processes in the European Union’
You need not to know more to realize it smells, with such a title.
from New Left Review on this fine project:
“NATO’s Fabulators”
The text draws its data from a study from the Left Party block in the EU Parliament,
“Rhetoric and Reality of Disinformation in the European Union”
Jan. 25, 2022
https://left.eu/issues/publications/rhetoric-and-reality-of-disinformation-in-the-european-union/
comment by Clare Daly:
“The recent interest from the European establishment in the concepts of foreign interference and disinformation has been selective. Military-industrial interests in the West have a long history of disinformation designed to manufacture consent for conflict, but this record has been kept firmly in the blind spot of the INGE Special Committee. Zetsche and Rahtz’ study, ‘Rhetoric and Reality of Disinformation in the European Union”, for the Left in the European Parliament, does the important work of putting the record straight.”
Posted by: AG | May 6 2023 0:00 utc | 170
It’s a selective cohort.
But for those who know their memes:
https://twitter.com/CommanderNizar/status/1654575752023621632
Caution: ooh, and similarly sensitive souls won’t see the humor.
It’s a meme-mash.
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 6 2023 0:01 utc | 171
oh sry
and here the New Left Review txt:
“NATO’s Fabulators
Joshua Rahtz
05 May 2023”
https://newleftreview.org/sidecar/posts/natos-fabulators
Posted by: AG | May 6 2023 0:02 utc | 172
@ Tom_Q_Collins, §141:
On Putin´s biography, try Alex Krainer´s “Grand Deception” (Red Pill Press, 2018).
Posted by: John Marks | May 6 2023 0:02 utc | 173
The regular Russian army has been mostly absent since Lisichansk other than defending Kherson for a bit and then doing an unsuccessful small-scale offensive at Ugledar.
Nothing has been worn out. This is the really scary part, because it can mean one of two things:
1) It has been held in reserve because they know NATO will enter directly eventually
2) They will commit treason and forfeit without a fight.
Either possibility is extremely unpleasant.
————————————————
Just a question Mr. Shadowbanned: Which of the two choices that you presented whould make you like the best?
Posted by: shadowbanned | May 5 2023 16:32 utc | 23
Posted by: Ed | May 6 2023 0:04 utc | 174
Stalin may have been Georgian but the genocide was directed from the Kremlin…which last time I looked, was in Russia.
Posted by: Longhorn | May 5 2023 23:53 utc | 166
Thanks for accepting my statement. Stalin ACTUALLY was a Georgian.
Posted by: HERMIUS | May 6 2023 0:08 utc | 175
Posted by: HERMIUS | May 6 2023 0:08 utc | 177
Ok, what’s your point? I thought all Russian language speakers were de-facto Russians, one of the justifications for the SMO?
Posted by: Longhorn | May 6 2023 0:11 utc | 176
@ AG, §172:
Yep, Clare Daly is excellent. The EU is the American government-of-occupation.
But there´s worse going on in Ireland itself, with Varadkar passing a suppression of free speech bill – and almost all MPs voting for it, despite surveys showing 75% of the population opposed it!
Posted by: John Marks | May 6 2023 0:17 utc | 177
@ 35 “What puzzles me is why the Russian army has not committed troops to the fighting in any large scale way,”
I was wondering if this is because Russia did not declare war on Ukraine, is just a SMO. Maybe this is why there are only militias, mercenaries, using Russian weapons, commanders and intelligence. Could I be right?
Posted by: Jazz | May 6 2023 0:19 utc | 178
Posté par: Down South | 5 mai 2023 19:18 UTC | 86.
Air defense systems intercepted a guided American JDAM bomb in the special operation zone
May 3, 2023, 14:32
The Russian Defense Ministry reported the interception of a guided American JDAM bomb in the special operation zone.
Air defense systems intercepted a guided American JDAM.RIA News
“Air defense systems intercepted four HIMARS rockets and one US-made JDAM guided aerial bomb during the day,” the agency said in a statement.
Earlier, NBC reported that the United States was investigating a malfunction in the operation of JDAM systems in Ukraine.
The JDAM kit is installed on unguided bombs, and after being dropped, the projectile “opens its wings”, which allows you to increase the range of the original weapon.
According to media reports, citing “secret documents” that leaked online, the failures may be related to the operation of electronic warfare equipment of the Russian Armed Forces.
RT.
https://russian.rt.com/ussr/news/1143983-jdam-bomba-amerika
Posted by: la bouteille | May 6 2023 0:19 utc | 179
Putin. Saying Putin stuff to western media. 2015.
https://twitter.com/ricwe123/status/1652939256875065344
Saddam Hussein… you used to like that guy. Then you didn’t.
…our problem is the ex Iraqi military that are on the streets and filling the ranks of ISIL…
TQC. Worth a click
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 6 2023 0:24 utc | 180
Longhorn 178
stalin was not a native Russian speaker. he always spoke with a strong Georgian accent.
have you heard of the Soviet republics. in fact one strange element of the ussr was it was really not very Russian. the closest thing were the many Ukrainians who may or may not have been ethnic Russians.
same as the Russian oligarchs. they are in fact rarely Russian. ex soviet sure but very rarely Russian. Azerbaijan armenia Latvia finland and of course many dual israeli citizens but russian no.
Posted by: watcher | May 6 2023 0:28 utc | 181
Only peripherally Ukraine related, but… It is suddenly (within the past week) being reported that a Russian “special vessel” was seen near the Nord Stream pipelines a few days before the pipelines were blown up. I assume that this is propaganda. Why so long to report it if it is true? Anybody have better information about this?
Posted by: Cesar Jepardy | May 5 2023 15:58 utc | 2
———————————————————–
Emil Cosman (a troll of the highest order and lowest standard) brought up this story on You Tube about two weeks ago. He claimed that some Norwegian fisherman had taken 21 photos of a Russian boat designed for heavy underwater work located nearby where the Nord Stream explosions happened. Of course, Emil had photos to share with us, and he has never brought the subject again.
You’re that you, “assume that this is propaganda,” is of course correct. And of course, you answered your own question: Why take so long to report it if it is true? Welcome to the world of TROLLING for Dollars.
asked the question
Posted by: Ed | May 6 2023 0:29 utc | 182
Pre sloSMO
George Friedman, the founder of think tank Stratfor: Explaining why Russia and Germany must be divided and in conflict to ensure U$ “interests”.
The Three Seas Baltic- Black Sea Intermarium is a solution.
“But what with Germany do”?
https://twitter.com/Kanthan2030/status/1633892107466477569
Watch it a second time to observe the guy standing beside Friedman.
His head is exploding with stuff he’s never heard before…
Now that Germany has been neutered.
On to Poland to make the Thee Seas a Thing.
Explains sporadic, effervescent talk of Poland-western Ukraine “uniting”.
It’s part of the much longer, long term plan.
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 6 2023 0:38 utc | 183
Some videos for today.
RT joins Wagner forces in center of Artemovsk ‘meat grinder’ (another good frontline report):
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/bakhmut-meat-grinder:e
Kiev regime war criminal with ISIS links among UK-trained fighters:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/uk-training-war-criminals:7
FSB prevents Kiev regime terrorist attack targeting Zaporozhye NPP chief:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/fsb-foils-terror-attack:7
Russian self-propelled howitzer pounds the enemy:
https://odysee.com/@SputnikInternational:c/MstaGiatsint:f
Russian airborne troops pound enemy positions near Artemovsk:
https://rutube.ru/video/65935d5ee74dc1490e85f24909b1534e/
Russian T-80 tank destroys Kiev regime firing position:
https://rutube.ru/video/c1cccb05bdcdf7895480036438d2b19c/
Russian Mi-28 helicopter in action:
https://rutube.ru/video/aa23f9817c84000e266192c37bd03b86/
Posted by: Nate | May 6 2023 0:44 utc | 184
Just sent an email to b. last two comments with my username are not mine.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 6 2023 0:46 utc | 185
The industrial type of mass murders carried out during Stalin era were completely organised and instigated by Lavrentiy Beria, including the Katyn Massacre, Stalin just had given carte blanche to Beria, he named his son after the Sergo Ordzhonokidze, which carried out a massacre of Mensheviks in Georgia , in which 10 000 were murdered!
To understand the nature of these atrocity one has to look in to the Georgian psyche, its connected to the culture! of Blood lust, and revenge in very much part of Caucasian culture! The mass murders are always associated with Russia, there is never mention of the nasty Georgian ethos.
Posted by: Grishka | May 6 2023 0:47 utc | 186
Re Prighozin:
God almighty, people here and elsewhere, pro-Russian and pro-Ukie, misread, mishear, misinterpret, mis-speculate, self-project, soread fake crap on what people can mean.
1. If Proghozin was “emotional”, it was about his dead men (employees, brothers-in-arms) and not necessarily connected to any Bakhmut withdrawl or lack of ammo. He does not need to “go public” to get what he needs. He was simply making the point — more ammo, less dead. Fact of war.
2. Was it really “a threat” to leave (as frequently reported like a dummy spit) or just a war plan for a new phase. Perhaps is was just the end of a MoD deal/contract.
3. He would no way abandon a theatre he had so long fought for. Wagner are best for urban storm trooping, not best for going west in the open. Best left to RF-AF.
4. He so often trolls and misinforms to screw up the Ukies’ heads.
5. He, nor MoD, doesn’t give a tactical shit about some arbitrary date (May 9th). The 10th was probably just his estimate of Bakhmut’s mission end. Wagners will pop up again where they are best needed. They’re just one Russian army moved around in the big scheme. I don’t believe he actually decides where they go. He’s not really a freelance Guns for Hire. He’s a sincere part of Putin’s NWO Mission … albeit a media whore!
Just more hot air on a quiet news day.
Posted by: The Dolphin | May 6 2023 0:52 utc | 187
U$ needs to have its social media companies in China.
“We need that data”…
[]And we need access to foment social unrest]]
https://twitter.com/PBDsPodcast/status/1654272697650626560
Oh.And it’s China’s fault U$ car repayments doubled.
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 6 2023 0:59 utc | 188
This forum desperately needs registration and comment rating.
Posted by: Nervous German | May 6 2023 1:02 utc | 189
Longhorn. I believe that was the name of those Spanish cattle in taxes. Much genocide conducted in the US and here in Australia to create a bit of lebensraum. You ever heard of a little incident called the American civil war? Civil war and genocide. America has done both.
You ever heard of this bloke? Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 6 2023 1:04 utc | 190
Prigozhin should do his country a favour: He should take a break and stop washing his laundry in public. It’s a very bad sign and it in fact weakens his own country’s side. He reminds me of one of Ayn Rand’s protagonists like John Galt who ironically acts like a unionist and goes on strike along with other wealthy industrialists and entrepreneurs, getting upset if he doesn’t get what he wants. Funny how billionaires turn unionist when it doesn’t go own their way too. I realise Wagner forces have been fighting hard in Bakhmut and suffered many losses (which as mercenaries they sign up for), but it is hard to know what Prigozhin’s true motivations are given he is an oligarch and a billionaire and thus largely motivated by money and power.
Posted by: George | May 6 2023 1:07 utc | 191
@Peter AU1 | May 6 2023 0:46 utc | 187
This was obvious to many of us here.
Not to worry – as Oscar Wilde put it –
“The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about at all.”
Posted by: Don Firineach | May 6 2023 1:09 utc | 192
Just more hot air on a quiet news day.
Posted by: The Dolphin | May 6 2023 0:52 utc | 189
——————————————————
All very good points Mr. Dolphin. Pay no attention to the TROLLS, they are just BUTT hurt because the Musicians kicked Zelensky’s ass in BUTTMOOT.
Everyone paid a high price in lost lives and treasures. I blame Joe Fucking Biden who could have prevented this whole sorted and unnecessary war.
Posted by: Ed | May 6 2023 1:10 utc | 193
What I get from that part about drones and invisibility cloaks reinforces my long held conviction that the people who try to explain away Putin’s inaction against the nazis in 2014-15 as “Russia has been preparing for war for 8 years” were talking through their hats. Russia obviously was not prepared for the war that it is now fighting; it has had to improvise, learn on the move, and most telling of all call a mobilisation after 6 months of combat. You don’t call a mobilisation if you’ve been prepared for the war in advance; you have your troops signed up and prepared already.
That said, people like our Armenian friend Grigory have also proved something else I’ve thought for a long time: per capita, Russian minorities are more likely to fight for their country than ethnic Russians, so many of whom are even now holidaying in Cyprus or Erdoğanistan.
https://awfulavalanche.wordpress.com/2023/05/05/ukraine-war-day-436-meet-grigory-kubatian/
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 6 2023 1:12 utc | 194
@2, Cesar, hey man, you’re new here or you wouldn’t ask that question. I’ll give you a break and say that the perfidy of the Empire is bottomless.
Posted by: Immaculate deception | May 6 2023 1:13 utc | 195
I agree with Dolphin @189. As Simplicius76 pointed out, Prigozhin isn’t even the real commander of Wagner: he’s a public face and spokesman. But that he’s furious is obvious because if the naming of Shoigu and Gerasimov directly. Kadyrov took note of that too and weighed in with his own tales of severe shortages at Mariupol.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 6 2023 1:16 utc | 196
Even the diplomats are having fist fights. A Ukrainian delegate has punched a Russian delegate in the face during a meeting of Black Sea nations after his Ukrainian flag was snatched away to stop him from photobombing a video interview, reports Al Jazeera.
The US has succeeded admirably again in pitting nation against nation to preserve unipolar status. The sooner it ends, the better.
Posted by: Oh | May 6 2023 1:18 utc | 197
@Wokechoke | May 5 2023 19:24 utc | 87
Wagner had 4,000 contractors before this war and for a while had access to Russia’s prisons and swelled to 50,000 for a six month period.
According to Western sources, Wagner had over 50,000 contractors commissioned to Africa at the beginning of 2022. See some of my older sources here.
Prigozhin says on yesterday’s video, that Wagner was recalled from Africa on March 19, 2022.
Posted by: Petri Krohn | May 6 2023 1:26 utc | 198
Posted by: bevin | May 5 2023 21:18 utc | 119
I second your appeal for compassion for Lira. This site could use some more compassion in general. The jeering against Lira is disgusting. He provided some good reporting from his perch in Karkov and deserves respect for that.
Posted by: Chas | May 6 2023 1:26 utc | 199
“ For the people of Ukraine the war is a tragedy visited upon them by arrogant and greedy foreigners, including not a few who are the descendants of criminals who escaped justice.”
Ukrainians are far from innocent. They voted for Poroschenko and Zelenskyy. They let a tiny minority of neo-Nazis simply takeover and run national policy, with the full blessings of their foreign paymasters (the USA).
Posted by: P Walker | May 6 2023 1:27 utc | 200