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May 16, 2023
Ukraine – Air Defense Lessons (Updated)

Updated below

This is factual:

Patriot Missiles Won’t Save Ukraine – National Interest – May 9, 2023

Patriot systems are limited to pinpoint defense of major assets and are designed to operate in tandem with air defenses engaging targets at higher and lower altitudes. Without these additions, Patriot will have too many threats to engage and the result will either be porous coverage that doesn’t protect its defended assets, or coverage that quickly subsides when Patriot runs out of interceptors.

Moreover, Patriot systems are themselves vulnerable. Operating a Patriot radar system gives away its location, making it an open target for Russian attacks. This means that Patriot is not a one-stop-shop for defending Ukraine’s military assets or its people.

Those facts were proven last night.

War Monitor @WarMonitors – 1:23 UTC · May 16, 2023

⚡️I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but after careful review of this video, it appears that the air defence battery (most likely patriot) tried to save itself, but failed. It most probably got toasted.
Embedded video


bigger

Those were expensive two minutes for the 'West':

Fennec_Radar @RadarFennec – 1:45 UTC · May 16, 2023

I counted 30 Patriot PAC-3 MSE launches here.
The FY2024 costs of these per missile is about $$5,275,000
That was $158,250,000 fired in about two minutes. And as we see, the battery or something else likely got blown up. So it failed in its mission.
Embedded video

This though is likely not true. Kinzhals are simply too fast to be hit by any of Ukraine's air defenses:

Defense of Ukraine @DefenceU – 6:40 UTC · May 16, 2023

Last night, russian terrorists attacked Ukraine with:
– 6 Kinzhal aeroballistic missiles
– 9 Kalibr missiles
– 3 ground-launched missiles
– drones

ALL TARGETS SHOT DOWN.
Glory to the Ukrainian Air Forces!
We are grateful to our partner states for strengthening our air defense capabilities.

The casualty numbers in today's clobber report by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation may be a bit exaggerated but the general operational facts are usually true:

The Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation launched a combined attack with long-range precision-guided air- and sea-based weapons against the AFU units, as well as depots of ammunition, weapons and military equipment supplied by Western countries.

The goal of the attack has been reached. All the assigned targets have been neutralised.

U.S.-manufactured Patriot surface-to-air missile system has been struck by Kinnzhal hypersonic glide vehicle in Kiev.
…
Fighter Aviation of Russian Aerospace Forces have shot down Su-24 and Su-25 aircraft of Ukrainian Air Force near Varvarovka and Krasnoarmeysk (Donetsk People's Republic).

Air defence forces intercepted seven Storm Shadow long-range cruise missiles, three HARM anti-radar missiles and seven HIMARS multiple-launch rocket system projectiles.

Air defence facilities have shot down 22 unmanned aerial vehicles close to Ivanovka and Yevgenovka (Donetsk People's Republic), Topolyovka (Lugansk People's Republic), Inzhenernoye, Blagoveshchenka (Zaporpzhye region), and Krynki (Kherson region).

Ukraine does not have an integrated air defense that can attack all air targets at all levels. Russia though has such an integrated system of systems. It makes for a huge difference.

Updated – 16:30 UTC:

U.S. confirms hit on Patriot system:

Alex Marquardt @MarquardtA – 16:23 UTC · May 16, 2023

A Patriot system was likely damaged but not destroyed by a Russian missile barrage Monday night, a US official tells @NatashaBertrand. US is still assessing the damage which to determine whether the system needs to be pulled back entirely or be repaired by the Ukrainians.

Posted by b on May 16, 2023 at 13:47 UTC | Permalink
Comments

Just finished viewing the podcast “Ukraine’s neoliberalism on steroids, Europe’s economic suicide” which was well worth the hour. Now at the link is the transcript which edits out all the ums, ers, and slight stutters. Most of the major points made have also been made here, but many minor points and other details are also provided.
The third participant is Mick Dunford who brings a different outlook to the discussion as his CV suggests: “Emeritus Professor, School of Global Studies, University of Sussex, Visiting Professor, Institute of Geographical Sciences and Natural Resources Research (IGSNRR), Chinese Academy of Sciences, and Managing Editor of Area Development and Policy. He graduated with B.Sc in Geography and M.Sc in Quantitative Economics from the University of Bristol. His interests are in global development (at multiple geographical scales and with special reference at different times to Europe and the western world, China and Eurasia and the wider world system) drawing on materialist conceptions of history and geography and on theories of uneven and combined development, regulation and geopolitical economy.” Unfortunately, he doesn’t get much airtime, but he does provide some excellent historical thoughts and recent stats.
Back to the Kinzhal, has anyone seen a different video than the one b provided? I’d like to see the attack from a different vantage point as I’m sure others will.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 16 2023 22:56 utc | 301

@Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 16 2023 22:42 utc | 303
That is just how patriot system functions. It shoots missiles, these missiles hit nothing, and then millions of dollars go into the pockets of Raytheon investors. That is how patriot has worked since it was introduced. Like most American military hardware, it is primarily a rent seeking scam that is an utter failure in its intended use.

Posted by: FVK | May 16 2023 22:57 utc | 302

Mark2 @ 295

I’v got a very good gut instinct, allways have had. It’s telling me now —- This conflict is at a pivotal momment right now.

Yup, again.
I noticed the same thing, the SMO is coming to an end, Russia is the one now raising the stakes, clear as day, the west will now be made to choose. Will they make the wrong choice? Looking at the past history of idiocy, by past I mean not just since 1997 but last 300 years, I’d say be damn worried.
The SMO went wrong at the start, bad guesses all down the line by Russia, more an intelligence and political failure that was reflected in the military. Since the Kherson pullback Russia realized what was at stake and got very serious, very cautious, very incremental, but all definitely part of a clear, systematic plan. They are coming out of the cautious part.
Getting there was worrying, from the peanut gallery, did they really have a plan, more importantly a vision, to win the war? Apparently they do. It’s clear now. Ain’t over, far from that, but whatever is coming it’ll be part of that slow steady relentless plan and confident vision. That’s how Russians win their wars. With a lot of dead too. That may also be coming as the SMO ends and whatever is next unfolds. Will the west make the right choice and avoid WW3? Place your bets .

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 16 2023 22:58 utc | 303

Short answer because a Kinzhal (~2000 km max I think) from Kaliningrad can’t reach them in Iceland (~2800 km).
Posted by: Jerr | May 16 2023 20:40 utc | 242
Shallow, presumptuous thinking to a stupid proposition. No way would Russia assassinate “EU leadership” in Iceland. It’s NATO (look it up). Besides, any RF sub can hit anywhere they travel unseen. You realise most Russian subs are presently out and about from their bases, awaiting a good reason to ejaculate their payload. Get facts before commenting on silly trolling.

Posted by: The Dolphin | May 16 2023 23:07 utc | 304

Religion and LGBTQ and Trannies? FFS, I thought this was about Ukraine, Patriot missiles and Kinzhals?
Can someone clean up this crap so I can actually read what it is this discussion is supposed to be about? I would use the filter, but I don’t trust third party scripts.
About the “strike”. If it has already been admitted that Patriot systems were “damaged”, I bet the system had two or three parts of the whole 5 or 6 part system destroyed. That satisfies the damaged part without admitting the system is likely inoperable. Besides, just shooting 150MM$$ in missiles is more money than Russia has likely spent on a good 3 months in this whole affair.
Off topic, I really DGAF who butt rams who in the dark. F’n snowflakes just got to snowflake. Shut up, no one cares. If you really want to jimmy up your sky daddies, any sky daddies, go to church. Shut up, no one cares.

Posted by: Fudup | May 16 2023 23:11 utc | 305

Posted by: karlof1 | May 16 2023 22:56 utc | 317
” just watched a podcast ”
Just skip to the last statement saves watching it all.
MICHAEL HUDSON: “What you’ve described as neoliberalism is exactly what Mick has called a rentier policy. And a rentier policy pretends to be economic growth, but it’s really overhead.”
Basically a true meme of the whole discussion.
The reality of course is and I sincerely hope the final outcome of the SMO is this below. I very much doubt it will happen but you have to live with hope that this is a real possibility.
https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=60830
The reason I doubt it will happen is for the very same reasons China and Russia have formed such a strong bond. If one falls the other one knows fine well they are next. Europe is exactly the same. If America falls they know they are next so will do anything America asks if them.

Posted by: Derek Henry | May 16 2023 23:15 utc | 306

Posted by: karlof1 | May 16 2023 22:56 utc | 317
Back to the Kinzhal, has anyone seen a different video than the one b provided? I’d like to see the attack from a different vantage point as I’m sure others will.
This isn’t close by Karl, but gives a clearer view of the explosions.
https://twitter.com/Cyberspec1/status/1658430974894690306

Posted by: GT Stroller | May 16 2023 23:16 utc | 307

@Rick @ 201
Explain to me the logic of sending a dummy missile. It would require every component of the real thing, minus explosives. Which, it would seem to me, to be the cheapest component of said missile?
Dummy missiles are used all the time, in training. The entire US BQM line are essentially missiles without the warhead, instead containing electronics which allow them to be turned away by the operator so they will not impact the ship which is using them as a training target.
https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/bqm-177a-subsonic-aerial-target/
They can carry flares and limited countermeasures to simulate enemy efforts to break track and lock.
You’re on to something, because they’re not cheap and indeed they do have to mimic the performance and flight characteristics of a real missile in order to fool the system. But if you wanted to run an attack with one Kinzhal and ten dummies, the fake missiles do not have to fly as fast as a Kinzhal or behave just like one. The real Kinzhal would probably be fired first or from much further away, with the dummies launched at the necessary moment for a coordinated time on top (TOT) so that all arrive on the target or nearby at about the same time. The dummy missiles would need a guidance system but nearly everything can use GPS these days. Remember, you are dealing with automatic defense systems here; they do filter out bogus targets that are obvious, but they are not as hard to fool as a trained operator.
And you’re right that you would be just as well off to launch a number of less-sophisticated missiles, with real warheads, in the hope that they would do some damage in case some got through. But the real priority is causing enough of a distraction so the Kinzhal gets through. I frankly don’t think they have anything that can handle it anyway – air-defense systems exhibit their worst performance against crossing targets with a high crossing rate, and their best success against projectiles which are coming directly at them so that all that changes is range.

Posted by: Mark | May 16 2023 23:17 utc | 308

One has to wonder what is so valuable in Kiev to be so heavily protected? Just for optics and propaganda?

Posted by: Johnycomelately | May 16 2023 23:18 utc | 309

@karlof1 #317
Mick Dunford’s two charts alone are worth the effort ….
I knew that while Poland and Ukraine were broadly of similar output in 1991 that Poland had increased to four times Ukraine by 2016 …. albeit with EU assistance
But from Dunford’s second chart I think – Ukraine had decreased by -50% by 2019 – RF at ~+150% and …. China … over 1000 yes over +1,000%
Ukraine inherited an economy, human capital and infrastructure from Soviet Union and – wasted it through corruption … and it has taken corruption to a new level as US installed proxy govs have sold it all to Blackrock, Cargill, Monsanto, Chevron, Raytheon, Global Banks etc etc etc …. Treason of the highest order
Highly recommended viewing ….
Quite a bit of flaming on this thread – prob watching too many vids of dodgy stuff flaming into the night sky ….
Humbly suggest some Aurelian Meditations for those so sorely afflicted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5E2AQKuCyU

Posted by: Don Firineach | May 16 2023 23:19 utc | 310

LightyearsFromHome @ 319
Thanks for the feed back,
Spot on with all that.
Bare in mind though at the start of the SMO, Russia had no choise but to act as it did. The victem never gets the choice.
So the big question is —–
What now will be the west next move or reaction. Looks to me like their running out of road.
Put another way— will the disparate west do something stupid.
Very probably. Track record says so.

Posted by: Mark2 | May 16 2023 23:21 utc | 311

“I told y’all that the US wasn’t sending the good stuff.
Posted by: BroncoBilly | May 16 2023 17:48 utc | 128”
Precisely, there are thousands of F-35’s waiting repairs for the flight to Europe, where they can then repaired again before showing them Russkies what real short-term flight is all about.
Every day, the USA and Europe show the world that Financialization was and still is, incredibly stupid long term strategy. Russia has the resources, the talent, and a very pissed off population.
Zelensky has a choice. Become the Shah, or Mussolini. Even the remaining Ukrainians want his scalp.

Posted by: kupkee | May 16 2023 23:23 utc | 312

The Dolphin | May 16 2023 23:07 utc | 320
My comment was suppose to be taken humorously.
There was nothing of a threatening nature meant to be implied.

Posted by: Jerr | May 16 2023 23:23 utc | 313

LightYearsFromHome # 22:58 utc | 319
IMO the Russian plan is simple:
NATO f#ck off. And if you don’t we will make the matter clear to you through military/technical means.
They made that abundantly clear in mid december 2021 and the NATO/UKUSA monkeys ignored the proposition.
We observe now as Russia makes it clear. Peace is simple to achieve, NATO/UKUSA stop the belligerence, return to the 1990 NATO boundaries, get on with developing your nations and improving the lives of you citizens and all will be at peace. But above all UKUSA is to stop the belligerence.
The ignorance of the vengeful hateful westies is disgusting and entirely stupid.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 16 2023 23:24 utc | 314

@ Didi | May 16 2023 17:31 utc | 116
Didi see how stupid he is? I guess he Didin’t.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | May 16 2023 23:24 utc | 315

I agree that Russia is now really stepping up. My take being that the Kremlin hoped for a short, sharp war. Likely hoped that at least Kharkov would fall like the south did. Kiev was always a long shot but worth a shot because it also tied up some Ukrainian forces/attention. The SMO did work quite well in the south. But then the US/UK scuttled negotiations and decided that they would treat the conflict as existential too.
A summer of both sides feeling it out. A fall of moderate success for the west, but no significant defeat for Russia. Since sometime in the summer / fall, Russia has been gearing up. Remember how many months it took for the US to prep for Iraq? I assume the same process was at work over the fall/winter. And now Russia is more ready. It likely still lacks the manpower to March on Lvov like so many hope, but manpower is relative to the enemy. Ukrainian losses can’t be backfilled forever, and the backfilling will degrade in capability.

Posted by: Lex | May 16 2023 23:25 utc | 316

@ PavewayIV | May 16 2023 19:53 utc | 219
With utmost respect to your knowledge and analysis, please have a look at this video of Kinzhal system hitting shopping mall in Kiev last year and tell me how is that subsonic speed?
Kinzhal climbs, if fired from MIG-31 going Mach 2.3, from 20 km to around 80-110 km to accelerate to Mach 9-10.
It manoeuvres at random during the climbing phase, so no Kalman filter can defeat it.
When it gets to above the target, it dives vertically and manoeuvres in a vortices while diving. It is also sheathed in plasma that is confusing any radar.
Even new hot-shit GhostEye is not sure whether that is a missile or not and where it is going to be in a second or 5.
Kinzhal can release flares, decoy modules, etc. – as you wrote, not sure if it does it every time.
But it keeps its speed in the upper hypersonic range, probably around Mach 6-7+
Because Patriot’s projectile is around 3-4.1 Mach fast at the best optimum height and angle approach.
So its typical kinetic energy equals around 3-4 tones of TNT with 400 kg. warhead. Big boom.
As far as I know, they are building different versions with different warheads and penetrators.
Never mind all that, but why would one use a hypersonic system just to slow it down in a terminal phase?
Posted by: whirlX | May 16 2023 20:44 utc | 248
Aerodynamic drag is unavoidable and increases with the square of the velocity. Double the incoming velocity and drag force increases by a factor of four. The same aerodynamic drag forces decelerate ICBM and SLBM warheads that have a peak velocity of over Mach 20.
Keep in mind that while Kinzahl missiles are faster than Patriot missiles, they are no necessarily more agile than Patriot missiles. Given the capability to maneuver at a particular acceleration rate, the turn radius increases with the velocity squared. Kinzahl must also limit evasive maneuverings in order to actually impact the intended target.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 16 2023 23:25 utc | 317

> Europe is exactly the same. If America falls they know they are next so will do anything America asks if them.
I disagree about causality. IMO, Europe is failing *because* they continue doing what London and Warshington tell them.

Posted by: natokraine | May 16 2023 23:26 utc | 318

So, what’s this mean?
https://nypost.com/2023/05/16/intoxicated-intruder-walks-into-natsec-adviser-jake-sullivans-home/
Posted by: GT Stroller | May 16 2023 22:42 utc | 304
I wonder if he had a hammer just like the intruder who hammered Representative Nutty Nancy Pelossi’s husband? He would hammer for justice and freedom!

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 16 2023 23:29 utc | 319

@ Derek Henry | May 16 2023 23:15 utc | 322
Derek – you need to do something about your links – they are DOA – without a title no one will bother – even with a title if they are DOA most will not bother …

Posted by: Don Firineach | May 16 2023 23:33 utc | 320

@bar. We’ve known for a year that telegram is for the kool kids.
We’ve now got company: (the “company”)

CIA’s global #mission requires that individuals be able to contact us securely from anywhere in the world. That’s one reason why, for the first time, #CIA is establishing a presence on #Telegram.

https://twitter.com/CIA/status/1658532890332782610
I’m kinda chuffed I was a whole year ahead of the CIA in my open source sleuthing….
… Another 2c… the CIA and U$ agencies infiltrated and neutered FB, YT and pre-Musk twitter… so we fled to telegram as a less restricted platform.
I suspect that once the CIA anacodas telegram, we’ll all need to flee to weibo or something.

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 16 2023 23:34 utc | 321

Patriots are flawless. This was proven multiple times in Saudi see hereand here and believe it yourself.
What some so-called analysts fail to understand is that the new PAC-5.7 patriots manned by the indefatigable ghost of chicken kiev uses a stunning new missile defeat system that takes advantage of the terrain, buildings and strategic assets to intercept the incoming missiles

Posted by: enkidu | May 16 2023 23:37 utc | 322

Uncle tungsten @ 380
Nicely put.
And it’s good to see a few grown ups back in the room.
Serious times we live in.
Don’t lets get conditioned.

Posted by: Mark2 | May 16 2023 23:39 utc | 323

Posted by: natokraine | May 16 2023 23:26 utc | 334
” I disagree about causality. IMO, Europe is failing *because* they continue doing what London and Warshington tell them. ”
Because it is embedded in their treaties and fiscal rules and monetary pokicies. Washington and London don’t even need to tell them. It is run by Western bankers – the rentier class.
The sham of ECB independence.
https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=37150
Neoliberalism is absolutely nothing new even though many think it is and humanity has been here before.
https://moneyontheleft.org/2021/06/14/neoliberalisms-colonial-origins/
For Europe is to stand any chance the Euro has to be dismantled and countries go back to being sovereign nation states.

Posted by: Derek Henry | May 16 2023 23:39 utc | 324

Did NATO annex Russian territory? Did NATO invade Russian territory?
Did Biden ever claim that Russia had “no historical right to exist” as Putin did with Ukraine?
Of course NATO has an interest in aiding Ukraine in maintaining the integrity of its territory. But I do not see how you can twist things to make them out to be the aggressor here.
But that is a pointless discussion on this site.
Posted by: Noam A. Larkey | May 16 2023 16:47 utc | 91

Oh THIS again? The so called western narative. Might want to know 85% of the world did not buy it, didn’t join the antagonization of Russia with economic warfare and they’re so against US policies that they’re de-dollarizing fast.
For the record, no, NATO didn’t annex any Russian territory. But tried to do so by having a proxy (the Kyiv regime) murder people in Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk without success.
I suppose the use of a proxy and failure to get the people of Donbass submit to their overlords in Kyiv absolves NATO of any wrong doing. Fortunately, as pointed out, 85% of the world doesn’t buy that malarkey.

Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | May 16 2023 23:41 utc | 325

One has to wonder what is so valuable in Kiev to be so heavily protected? Just for optics and propaganda?
Posted by: Johnycomelately | May 16 2023 23:18 utc | 325
Maybe as in Iraq – the Dept of Land, Mining & Geological and Oil/Gas Data ….
… protected in Baghdad by US while they let the famous Museum of Antiquities be looted …
Always follow the money – the Power protects the Money .. now that Blackrock is in charge of it all …

Posted by: Don Firineach | May 16 2023 23:41 utc | 326

Derek Henry @ 322

Europe is exactly the same. If America falls they know they are next so will do anything America asks if them.

Dude, if America falls, they’re free, free from the mad emperor. It’s not the same.
Don’t mistake a tiny clique of neocon atlanticist nazi revivalists as all of Europe, or Japan and Australia etc. For the life of me I can’t imagine German industry, most of which is dynastic, shooting itself in the head, destroying decades if not a century or two of economic success for a neocon pipe dream. They just burned down the foundation of their prosperity, the foundation of all prosperity – cheap, abundant, and nearby food and energy. China jumped on it and took all it could get. They’re no fools!
There are certainly powerful elites in EU who are not on board with this shit, who are not fools. They need time to coalesce.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 16 2023 23:43 utc | 327

Don Firineach
I know sorry about that. I’ve tried 40 times to get links to work but can’t master it. Somebody did try and help me and I done exactly what they said and the link still didn’t work.
Copy and paste them into your search bar and they work.

Posted by: Derek Henry | May 16 2023 23:44 utc | 328

@ Posted by: kupkee | May 16 2023 23:23 utc | 328
(I don’t recognize you)
Surprised no one here ever mentions THAAD.

Posted by: BroncoBilly | May 16 2023 23:50 utc | 329

@ Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 16 2023 19:30 utc | 203
FWIW: Like most here, I respect you and think it’s none of anyone’s business whom we’re attracted to or how we view ourselves.
Yes, I dislike “trans men in women’s sports” and dislike the USA sickcare financial incentives encouraging kids to make irreversible experimental chemical and surgical changes to their bodies before they’re psychologically mature, without parental consent, and with subsidies from insurance pools. But, these policies are separate discussions. I don’t know enough homosexuals to ask but suspect many dislike those policies too.

Posted by: Bullion | May 16 2023 23:52 utc | 330

Posted by: Derek Henry | May 16 2023 23:39 utc | 341
For Europe is to stand any chance the Euro has to be dismantled and countries go back to being sovereign nation states.
Correct! I spent 7 years fighting for the UK to get the chance to leave the EU, and another 5 trying to get the result of the vote implemented.
Lesson learned: Destroying the EU is not an event, it’s a process.

Posted by: GT Stroller | May 16 2023 23:57 utc | 331

Unsurprisingly, there is no mention of the Patriot shit-show in the New York Times, only a report that Ukraine claims to have shot down a Russian hypersonic missile. So, don’t expect western audiences to even be aware of this significant defeat for NATO’s vaunted air defense system.

Posted by: Rob | May 17 2023 0:01 utc | 332

” Fucktard, we all have the internet here. It rained in Khmelnytskyi yesterday, and the wind was (and still is) blowing from the south, slightly eastward. Any depleted uranium in the atmosphere would have fallen back to earth with the rain. Your half ass disinformation skills would probably serve you better in the comments section of YouTube, so best start there.
Posted by: Didi | May 16 2023 17:31 utc | 116″
first, the strike happened on Saturday, not yesterday.
Here is the weather report starting yesterday:
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/ukraine/khmelnytskyi/ext
The winds are blowing northwest from the southeast today.
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/ukraine/khmelnytskyi-oblast

Posted by: Mary | May 17 2023 0:06 utc | 333

msm holding 3 day old news as headlijes that ukies pushed retreats from RF at bakhmut. no update about anything from then. the next headlines, if truthful, might be a real shock for the poor readers

Posted by: hankster | May 17 2023 0:09 utc | 334

Did NATO annex Russian territory? Did NATO invade Russian territory?
Did Biden ever claim that Russia had “no historical right to exist” as Putin did with Ukraine?
Of course NATO has an interest in aiding Ukraine in maintaining the integrity of its territory. But I do not see how you can twist things to make them out to be the aggressor here.
But that is a pointless discussion on this site.
Posted by: Noam A. Larkey | May 16 2023 16:47 utc | 91
——————————————————————-
Poor Noam, he is very confused, the Western narrative has fucked up his mind so bad he doesn’t know which side is up or down.
Russia did NOT annex Ukraine territory, the people who have lived there all their lives (like their parents, and grandparents, and great grandparents before them) voted end their relationship with a Nazi dictatorship that came to power through a coup in February 1014, and then ousted THEIR elected government and representatives.
A dictatorship, supported and financed by the US and the NATO Bloc. A dictatorship that attacked their language and culture, then began to murder them in their homeland and in their cities, hoping to drive them out of their homes and into Russia: In other words, genocide.
So, it is true that the present racist Nazi dictatorship that has taken control of Ukraine DO NOT DESERVE TO EXIST in Ukraine. My only question MR. Larkey is why do you defend and support the Nazi Dictatorship in Ukraine? Truly, you are pointless,

Posted by: Ed | May 17 2023 0:23 utc | 335

Some videos for today.
Wagner forces eliminated a (former?) US Green Beret mercenary in Artemovsk:
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/nicholas_maimer_merc:5
Combat operations involving anti-tank gun crews of Russia’s Airborne Forces:
https://odysee.com/@SputnikInternational:c/879452394:4
Russia’s ‘Nona-SVK’ self-propelled mortar conducts firing during ongoing hostilities:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/Nona_1605:7
Russian Lancet drone destroys enemy Strela SAM system:
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/video_2023-05-16_15-14-02:a
Russian Uragan MLRS fires salvo at enemy position:
https://rutube.ru/video/87156384548bfbf3cf7a8342a781dcc0/
Nuremberg protesters march against weapon supplies to Kiev regime and demand ceasefire:
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd/nuremberg_1605:a

Posted by: Nate | May 17 2023 0:26 utc | 336

Ed | May 17 2023 0:23 utc | 354
2014 not 1014.

Posted by: Ed | May 17 2023 0:30 utc | 337

GT Stroller | May 16 2023 23:16 utc | 323–
Thanks for that. I suspect there’re others that have yet to surface.
Don Firineach | May 16 2023 23:19 utc | 326–
Thanks for your reply. The bit of history Mick relates about the peaceful nature of the world outside of Europe as it escalated its Age of Plunder, which IMO is extremely important and a point I’m going to raise later in an essay I’m about to write. So few within the West know that the RoW was mostly at peace until the European Age of Plunder arrived on their nation’s doorstep with its Imperialism/Colonialism and all the crimes they contained. IMO, that’s one of the main reasons World History isn’t taught in the West, and even the Greco-Roman histories are perverted as Hudson’s series is showing so well. And of course, there’s the grossly polluted history of Christianity and the Catholic Church so damned few are aware of. And all of that contributes to the events of today, but few attempt to make the linkages.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 17 2023 0:32 utc | 338

Blowing shit up in Ukraine is not enough.
Russia blowing shit up in Syria today… some moderate rebel pets hanging around the U$ base in Al-Tanf
https://twitter.com/Sinnaig/status/1658575421271687169
NIGERIA
US convoy was attacked in Nigeria but no Americans were involved or hurt, the White House said Tuesday
“But we are aware of some casualties, perhaps even some killed, but I don’t want to get too far ahead of where we are right now,” John Kirby
https://twitter.com/Sinnaig/status/1658574219720925184
[“some kiled]… have seen reports of three. Not US citizens]

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 17 2023 0:33 utc | 339

“… China and Russia have formed such a strong bond. If one falls the other one knows fine well they are next. Europe is exactly the same. If America falls they know they are next so will do anything America asks of them.” Derek Henry@322
You are using the same logic as the faux left partisans of NATO. You presume that China and the Us are competing for the position of hegemon and the rewards of global domination.
But there is plenty of evidence that China is lookimg for something very different, and much more in tune with both history and reality- Multipolarity, in which humanity benefits from the fruits of cooperation and peaceful development.
China and Russia have enough work to do at home without seeking to plunder other countries. Imperialism in the long run is always a losing proposition for all involved. It was for the British people. It is for the American people.

Posted by: bevin | May 17 2023 0:38 utc | 340

CIA’s global #mission requires that individuals be able to contact us securely from anywhere in the world. That’s one reason why, for the first time, #CIA is establishing a presence on #Telegram.
I suspect that once the CIA anacodas telegram, we’ll all need to flee to weibo or something.
Posted by: Melaleuca | May 16 2023 23:34 utc | 338
It is my understanding that the US (CIA) is looking for a few “good” traitors to join the US proxy war in Ukraine and Russia.

Posted by: Ed | May 17 2023 0:38 utc | 341

Has anyone linked to Helmer’s latest today.
It is very pertinent to theis discussion.
“…On May 12, in the first day of their scheme, 1,725 Ukrainian men were killed on the Donbass front. This is the worst day’s military casualty rate since the US coup in Kiev launched the war in February 2014.
“According to the Financial Times, this killing didn’t happen. Instead, the headline reads: “Ukrainian counter-offensive takes shape with the first gains around Bakhmut.” The Washington Post announced likewise: “How Ukrainian forces denied Russia victory in Bakhmut by Victory Day”. The New York Times repeated: “Ukraine’s Advances Near Bakhmut Expose Rifts in Russian Forces”. According to this propaganda, these successes were bloodless on the Ukrainian side.
“A NATO forces veteran observes: “An entire regiment has been destroyed. This is cynical trading in flesh.
“In fact, what happened on the battlefield was dozens of Ukrainian troop movements in different directions along a front of more than ninety kilometres.
“According to the NATO veteran, “this is more propaganda offensive than real offensive. They scraped together enough gear, ammunition and manpower to make a barely audible tactical bang. It’s a punch with nothing behind it. Those guys are already dead. This isn’t even wishful thinking. It’s cynical trading in flesh.”….”
https://johnhelmer.net/the-imitation-offensive/#more-87986

Posted by: bevin | May 17 2023 0:42 utc | 342

Russian minister of Defense said that Ukraine “intercepted “ more rockets than Russia launched. Those expensive Patriot rocket launches have to be justified somehow. In other news: “Zelensky lands on Jupiter”

Posted by: Df | May 17 2023 0:43 utc | 343

Patriot? You say. In Kiev? You say…That’s “unconfirmed”. (The U$ spin would make Baghdad Bob blush….)
…The White House cannot confirm the information that the Patriot was damaged in Ukraine”, US National Security Council Coordinator for Strategic Communications John Kirby said.
“We follow official information, not anonymous sources of CNN,”
https://twitter.com/OSINTMISCIF/status/1658552824446304256

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 17 2023 0:43 utc | 344

@ Melaleuca | May 17 2023 0:43 utc | 362
according to cbc and cnn – it is all cool… the patriot has got the kinzails covered… all 9 or 6 of them, lol.. i learned everything i know from the msm, lol..

Posted by: james | May 17 2023 0:47 utc | 345

No, what makes Zelensky bad isn’t that he once wore heels. It’s that he utterly and horribly betrayed the pro-peace basis of his overwhelming election.
Posted by: paul | May 16 2023 21:53 utc | 282

Unfortunately his failure to carry through on his campaign promise is unknown in the west.
But another big knock is allowing the west to talk him out of March 2022 peace talks.
And he is rumored to be the one who advocates that Ukrainians not retreat until the very last minute or later than the last minute. Bakhmut being the best example which has had to be justified with claims of 7 to 1 casualties in favor of Ukraine.

Posted by: Simon | May 17 2023 0:49 utc | 346

Agreed, Good to see PavewayIV posting again!
Posted by: karlof1 | May 16 2023 20:40 utc | 244
What I’ve seen of their MO, the major hits typically come in at least three different directions…sometimes two. The RF certainly knows how and when to unleash and deliver super-smackdowns in style that’s for sure.

Posted by: nathan in WA US | May 17 2023 0:51 utc | 347

The reason I doubt it will happen is for the very same reasons China and Russia have formed such a strong bond. If one falls the other one knows fine well they are next. Europe is exactly the same. If America falls they know they are next so will do anything America asks if them.
Posted by: Derek Henry | May 16 2023 23:15 utc | 322

I don’t think it is a symmetrical situation. The USA spends a fortune on defense and has military bases around the world and a CIA that works to topple governments and assassinate leaders. They actively try to control the world and have Russia and now China in their sights. China and Russia are not doing the same.

Posted by: Simon | May 17 2023 0:54 utc | 348

Posted by: HansJuergen | May 16 2023 14:09 utc | 6
You think the Russian military/intelligence listens to, and believes,the West?

Posted by: horseguards | May 17 2023 0:54 utc | 349

Americans invade your country, destroy it, massacre your compatriots, murder your family, imprison you, torture you, then they make a musical about it
“Bad Apples, the Abu Ghraib musical, is a tale of soldiers behaving badly………
https://twitter.com/BadEmpanada/status/1658197900810235911

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 17 2023 0:55 utc | 350

tangential but i am sure some will find this interesting..
daily usa state press dept briefing from today… gonzala lira mentioned…
“QUESTION: I have two questions on Ukraine. The first question is about Kyrylo Budanov’s comments today in an interview. He basically admitted that Kyiv was behind the terrorist attacks on high-profile Russian journalists over the past months. Does the U.S. plan to designate Kyiv as a state sponsor of terrorism for this?
MR PATEL: I have not seen those comments, but I will note that it is in fact the Russian Federation that has a track record of suppressing journalists, suppressing media freedom, arresting journalists for just doing their job, including in the case of Evan Gershkovich of the Wall Street Journal just about a month or two ago. So, let’s not lose sight of who has the true track record of suppressing journalistic voices.
QUESTION: Also on media freedom, Chilean – U.S.-Chilean journalist Gonzolo Lira was arrested by the Ukrainian security service in the beginning of May. To date, the United States has not provided any condemnation, any statement on his arrest. Do you have any comments here?
MR PATEL: I’m not aware of that case, but I’m happy to check on that.”

Posted by: james | May 17 2023 0:55 utc | 351

Posted by: Erelis | May 16 2023 19:28 utc | 200
Talk about psychological capture.
Makes sense. Europe has been a case study in Stockholm syndrome since the Marshal Plan …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 17 2023 0:56 utc | 352

Ukraine defense forces have stated that they shot down Daenerys Targaryen and her dragon, Drogon. Details are sketchy at this time. Long live the Empire!

Posted by: Immaculate deception | May 17 2023 0:59 utc | 353

bevin | May 17 2023 0:42 utc | 360
The John Helmer link is new, but not the content. It’s been posted here from several telegrams.
[just another example of so few sources, so little original information, so great a need by so many bloggers, to feed an audience]

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 17 2023 0:59 utc | 354

@ james | May 17 2023 0:55 utc | 370 with the hypocrisy of the US State Dept of journalism terrorizing…thanks
It will be interesting to read the follow up about Gonzolo Lira

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 17 2023 1:02 utc | 355

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 16 2023 19:30 utc | 203

As a gay Hindu,

Oh! It all makes sense now! Can I call you Biswapriya PokeTheAsst from now on ?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 17 2023 1:02 utc | 356

@ Melaleuca | May 17 2023 0:55 utc | 369
And here I was, thinking that America’s crowning artistic achievement wrt the Gulf War(s) was “Hadji Girl.”
(On a serious note, Ted Hearne’s “The Source,” about then-Bradley Manning and Wikileaks, proves that tgere are a few decent voices in the USA.)

Posted by: malenkov | May 17 2023 1:04 utc | 357

Posted by: Johnycomelately | May 16 2023 23:18 utc | 325
Z stash?

Posted by: nathan in WA US | May 17 2023 1:06 utc | 358

@ Arch Bungle | May 17 2023 1:02 utc | 375
Aww, c’mon, Bungle, Biswapriya P. is usually insufferable, but surely you recognize a username hijack when you see it?

Posted by: malenkov | May 17 2023 1:08 utc | 359

Governor of Nikolayev oblast Vitaly Kim complains that everyone should be banned from filming missile strikes. I get it – it makes it unnecessarily hard to lie about the 200% interception rate!
>… “The object that was struck in Nikolayev is the Zorya-Mashproekt factory, by the way. Part of Ukrainian Defense Industries (Ukroboronprom) state corporation, produces gas turbines.”
https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1658581176339034113
>>>…”That factory was full of puppies and you know it”
>…””100% interception rate” to “ok it failed but the Patriot wasn’t hit” to “A Patriot system was likely damaged but not destroyed” to “a whole Patriot battery was wiped out” pipeline”
https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1658532759772487688
обломок ракеты-перехватчика от MIM-104F Patriot PAC-3, на этот раз её секции с газодинамическими рулями. И сама ракета на улицах Киева. Перехват состоялся только самим петриотом)) =
>>… “a fragment of an interceptor missile from the MIM-104F Patriot PAC-3, this time its sections with gas-dynamic rudders.
And the rocket itself is on the streets of Kyiv.
The interception took place only by the petriot himself))”
https://twitter.com/fire622263921/status/1658533111200661504

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 17 2023 1:15 utc | 360

Iceland was the only country in the West that actually sent its bankers to jail. I haven’t followed closely what they’ve done since, but at least once in my life, I saw bankers get what they deserve.
Posted by: FrankDrakman | May 16 2023 15:51 utc | 61

Unfortunately those bankers were released earlier than they were suppose to. But, your point still stands as those bankers DID go to jail; even for a short time.

One has to wonder what is so valuable in Kiev to be so heavily protected? Just for optics and propaganda?
Posted by: Johnycomelately | May 16 2023 23:18 utc | 325

Capital cities during war time tend to be heavily fortified especially when the front lines is a few hundred kilometers away.

Posted by: Ian2 | May 17 2023 1:18 utc | 361

Ok, ABC news just went whole hog and stated that Ukraine shot down all Russian missiles including Kinzal. In other news, Daenerys Targaryen and Drogon, her dragon, were shot down. Details are still sketchy, but the Ukrainian defense force is confident that she is dead. This, after Drogon apparently incinerated Zaluzhny while he was on the shitter. Sad news.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | May 17 2023 1:20 utc | 362

ZH has a posting up with the title
Russia Says It Took Out US-Supplied Patriot Missile In Hypersonic Strike On Kiev
The quote

Geopolitical analysis blog Moon of Alabama says the reports of a destroyed Patriot system are accurate:

The word accurate in the above quote at ZH is a link to this posting

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 17 2023 1:21 utc | 363

For what it’s worth, malenkov, I also suspect that our friend Biswapriya is another victim of hijacking.
He may be an insufferable bastard, but he’s our insufferable bastard. How dare anyone accuse him of buggery!

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | May 17 2023 1:24 utc | 364

Hardly reassuring !
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 16 2023 16:23 utc | 77
Literal scorched earth policy. If BlackRock can’t get the world’s bestest Black Soil, then no-one else will get it – for a million years, or woe betide your kids.

Posted by: Scorpion | May 17 2023 1:26 utc | 365

Ok, ABC news just went whole hog and stated that Ukraine shot down all Russian missiles including Kinzal.
Posted by: Immaculate deception | May 17 2023 1:20 utc | 382

As I mentioned in the other thread, this is hair raising scary to watch.
These are completely absurd claims — it is not at all a novel revelation that Western AD sucks even setting hypersonics entirely aside, but of course the average bozo being exposed to the mainstream news stream does not know that. And yet they are now claiming 100% success against hypersonic missiles. Which is a complete and obvious fantasy even without having seen the video of the Patriot desperately launching all its rockets (one of which fell back on the launcher, BTW) then going boom.
The logical next leap of faith, and one that is already being made widely, is to claim that there is nothing to fear in going to war with Russia — if Western wunderwaffe is so fantastically powerful that it neutralized Russia’s super-duper hypersonic weapons, then what is there to fear? Idiots will be told that if a Patriot has 100% success rate against Kinzhals, then THAAD and GMD will take care of the ICBMs, and there is nothing to worry, let’s go for it (never mind that THAAD also has barely any hope against Kinzhals and Zircons, certainly zero against Avangards, and regardless, the grand total of six batteries that exist are never going to be anywhere close to able to cover everything, while GMD has a grand total of 30-40 interceptors, all in Alaska and California, that can combine to maybe down a dozen ICBMs; the rest will go through, with 16-24 2-Mt Avangards on each of them.
But again, who cares about the technical reality.
They are seriously preparing the groundwork for direct war. Whoever has property in Argentina/Chile is well advised to move there ASAP. The rest of us will have to hope to survive somehow through the bottleneck…

Posted by: shadowbanned | May 17 2023 1:36 utc | 366

Looks like Mr. Malarkey wins the Dunning-Kruger award for this thread. You can always google it, Noah.

Posted by: Mike R | May 17 2023 1:37 utc | 367

Posted by: Scorpion | May 17 2023 1:26 utc | 385
God forbid, may Karma be summoned come around and unleash before that happens!

Posted by: nathan in WA US | May 17 2023 1:39 utc | 368

Another assessment of Ukie losses during their attacks on the flanks gives numbers greater than 2500 for the 3 days involved.
It appears that the Russians pulled back to their second line of defense, then plastered the Ukie attackers in a prepared killing field, until they were stopp
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | May 16 2023 19:32 utc | 205
———————————————–
I was in Supply during my time in the USMC, so I know nothing.
But it does seem to me that if you have more than one line holding a flank (a forward and a backup line) and if the area between the front line of the flank is mined and booby trapped between the front line and the back line, and then the front lone fakes a retreat from the attacking enemy, the mines and boopy traps will cause considerable problems for the attacking enemy, assuming that they are moving quickly.

Posted by: Ed | May 17 2023 1:40 utc | 369

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 16 2023 23:29 utc | 335
what’s that pete seeger song? about hammering? gonna hammer all over this land? hammering boxes, or something?

Posted by: rjb1.5 | May 17 2023 1:42 utc | 370

shadowbanned | May 17 2023 1:36 utc | 386
no one is following ground based missile defense (gmd): it is a three stage heavy missile deigned to carry a boeing made kill vehicle close enough to a warhead to disable it in the exo-atmosphere. some missiles are in central alaska some in california…….
first, the kill vehicle is a failure and a new development is being funded. second sensors on the kill vehicle are useless. third the number of failure modes is huge!
if passing a test to enter the profitable deployment contracts none of the following would be in the field: patriot, aegis, thaad, meads, nasam, iris….. and a batch of the surveillance* and control links!
japan refrained from buying the latest lockheed candidate to replace aefis surveillance!
usa only hope is the neocon swamp is not so deep in the pentagon when it comes to nuclear engagement!

Posted by: paddy | May 17 2023 1:46 utc | 371

I bet the system had two or three parts of the whole 5 or 6 part system destroyed. That satisfies the damaged part without admitting the system is likely inoperable.Posted by: Fudup | May 16 2023 23:11 utc | 321
yeah. It’s a bit like throwing a rod in your engine and saying “but hey!, the tires look great!”

Posted by: Scuppers | May 17 2023 1:47 utc | 372

Posted by: rjb1.5 | May 17, 2023 at 01:42
i was going to make a joke about Jael and her hammer, but i won’t milk that one. jake in the box.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | May 17 2023 2:02 utc | 373

Jimmy Dore on the explosion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nRd9u4iqfE
Anyone who feels breathing in depleted uranium dust is harmless is full of **it.
What would be justifiable retribution for this? If nuclear war does break out what will be left of the UK and Washington DC. Would ponder nothing.

Posted by: Thurl | May 17 2023 2:04 utc | 374

@Karlof1.
Request for any additional Patriot poof! Vid.
I think you’re lucky to have what’s available.
The person who posted … has had a visit from The Authorities:
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/165848630333029172

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 17 2023 2:05 utc | 375

Elmer Fudd | May 16 2023 23:25 utc | 333
you missed paveway’s points!

Posted by: paddy | May 17 2023 2:05 utc | 376

Posted by: GT Stroller | May 16 2023 23:30 utc | 336
Keep it moving, pal. You taking a pathetic cheap shot at me tells me alot about your lack of character. Just stick with your little magic “Zet browser extension” and “poof” you don’t have to be bothered with me.

Posted by: Russo | May 17 2023 2:08 utc | 377

psychohistorian | May 17 2023 1:21 utc | 383
Our humble bar, linked to at the Hedges of Zero.
Pls say it isn’t so…… it’ll bring a tsunami of trolls, idiots, disrupters, and…. Oh… just like every other day, I guess…
Ghost of Zanon | May 17 2023 1:24 utc | 384
🏆🍻

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 17 2023 2:13 utc | 378

@ Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 16 2023 19:30 utc | 203
FWIW: Like most here, I respect you and think it’s none of anyone’s business whom we’re attracted to or how we view ourselves.
Yes, I dislike “trans men in women’s sports” and dislike the USA sickcare financial incentives encouraging kids to make irreversible experimental chemical and surgical changes to their bodies before they’re psychologically mature, without parental consent, and with subsidies from insurance pools. But, these policies are separate discussions. I don’t know enough homosexuals to ask but suspect many dislike those policies too.
Posted by: Bullion | May 16 2023 23:52 utc | 347
————————————————–
But! BuT! Do intend to have children? Just asking!

Posted by: Ed | May 17 2023 2:20 utc | 379

@91
Did these USA annex:
1) Florida?
2) Mexican territory?
3) The NA west?
4) The Filipinies – for a while?
5) Puerto Rico?
6) Hawaii?
Not including all the meddling in a bunch of other places.

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | May 17 2023 2:22 utc | 380

Ghost of Zanon | May 17 2023 1:24 utc | 384
—————————————————
Queston for you Ghost: Are you Zanon the troll that used to post here often? Or are you someone completely different? You seem different, but why the “Ghost of Zanon” of all monikers one could choose from. If you are not Zanon returned to life, then IOU an apology.

Posted by: Ed | May 17 2023 2:31 utc | 381

Great article MoA!
I’m feeling lazy so stealing part of my comment from Simplicius the Thinker’s substack:
“The Media also don’t report that Russia’s usual behaviour is to conduct a test against a new weapon. If I recall, the other Patriot system was deployed to Zaporizhzhia, ahead of the city being evacuated, in expectation of Ukraine’s supposed great counteroffensive towards Crimea. In Kyiv, Russia is learning how to attack Patriots on the frontline. Add the entrenched positions and estimated 200,000 troops its got south of there, Ukraine is becoming more like Tibet than marshes and farmland.”
How much did the test cost Russia?

Posted by: Mike Hampton | May 17 2023 2:32 utc | 382

Posted by: Ed | May 17 2023 0:23 utc | 353
Not only that, but it was either the 2nd or 3rd time that Crimeans tried to get the fuck away from Kiev, dating back to the fall of the USSR in the early 90s. I believe both previous times they were ignored along with the constitution. On that note, I don’t find the term “annexed” as loathsome as “seized” with a “sham referendum overseen by armed ‘little green men'” which is the line I get from my NAFO type acquaintances and in reading most of the legacy media.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 17 2023 2:35 utc | 383

Posted by: JaimeInTexas | May 17 2023 2:22 utc | 400
————————————————-
You forgot Guam, Germany, and Japan. The US still controls those countries as well.

Posted by: Ed | May 17 2023 2:35 utc | 384

Posted by: shadowbanned | May 17 2023 1:36 utc | 386
If they are preparing for direct war, and I’ve said as much at Simplicius’ Substack, I sure as hell hope we’re wrong. They may think they talk a good game and have people fooled, but as we all know, the US only has nuclear brinksmanship in their proverbial arsenal. Plus they are wanting real bad to ‘pivot’ to China. Obviously the people pulling the various puppet strings aren’t gathered in a single star chamber and coming to unanimous agreements on what will happen, so there are numerous possibilities still on the horizon. What really scares me the most is the fact that they have clamped down so tightly on the narrative and on the means by which narratives are shared. Generally that only happens on this scale (and given the ‘online’ world the scale is bigger now) before some sort of foolhardy US/NATO military action. When we aren’t allowed to think heterodox thoughts on Russia/Ukraine/China/etc. it means that TPTB are priming us for something big. Again, I hope I’m wrong.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 17 2023 2:41 utc | 385

Posted by: Ed | May 17 2023 2:31 utc | 401
If I may, I believe Ghost of Zanon is a play on the previous Zanon troll’s handle (and all their iterations). The points made are polar opposite, too. Tangentially, the original Zanon and Ghost of something-or-other showed up here right when the handle thief or ‘bodysnatcher’ did…

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 17 2023 2:42 utc | 386

Postscript that I wish wasn’t necessary: Any further comments from ‘Tom_Q_Collins’ in this thread did not come from me. I’m turning in for the night.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 17 2023 2:44 utc | 387

Hey Tex @ 400, let’s not forget the Monroe Doctrine. Hey #91, put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Posted by: Ed | May 17 2023 3:03 utc | 388

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ War Map and the Situation on the Fronts in the Evening of 16 May 2023; pub. 00:09⚡️
⚡️ Tonight Retaliatory Strikes were launched against 404 military facilities in #Kiev. Although the Ukrainian air defence tried hard, the enemy suffered serious casualties, especially media casualties. The Kinzhal hypersonic system destroyed a battery of Patriot SAMs, which were not particularly effective, but still fell spectacularly on residential buildings after deviating from their course. Of course, the Kiev regime denies everything, but the burning American “Patriot” has been spotted across the ocean as well.
⚔️ The Situation on the Fronts over the past Day:
🔹#Svatovo – #Kremennaya Direction:
▪️ The Russian army attacked enemy positions near #Sinkovka. Also after the liberation of #Masyutovka, our forces pushed the militants back to the #Oskol River.
🔹#Artyomovsk (#Bakhmut) Sector:
🤚 Evgeny Prigozhin reported that the “Orchestrators” have completely cleared the “Nest” fortified area in #Artyomovsk, advancing 200 metres. About 1.46 square kilometres of the city’s territory are under the control of the AFU. Until the city is fully liberated, the militants still have to be driven out of the quarter and the private sector.
🔹#Donetsk Direction:
➖ In the #Avdeyevka sector, the AFU successfully counterattacked near Krutaya Balka, (re)occupying a section of the H-20 highway.
➖ In #Maryinka, the storming of the western quarters continues.
🫡 Russian Aviation destroyed Ukrainian Su-24s and Su-25s in the areas of #Varvarovka and #Krasnoarmeysk in the DPR, the Russian Ministry of Defence reported.

https://t.me/sitreports/8776

Posted by: Down South | May 17 2023 3:12 utc | 389

The United States framed the Office of the President and admitted the partial destruction of Patriot air defense damage. We wrote about this in the morning and all day, but Bankovaya in every possible way denied the loss and arrivals.
From here it may follow that one / two or three launchers are damaged, plus the rest could have been damaged by explosions and scattering.
This confirms the words of the RF Ministry of Defense about partial destruction.
The office of the President was in a bad situation.
According to our data, the Americans can accuse the Ukrainians of mismanaging their systems, which caused them damage, both technical and informational. This will be a trump card for opponents of the Biden administration in subsequent cases of the transfer of military assistance to Ukraine.

https://t.me/legitimniy/15362

Posted by: Down South | May 17 2023 3:14 utc | 390

🔥🔥 Bakhmut.
If Budanov is to be believed that Prigozhin is telling 80% of the truth, then today the advance of attack aircraft in Bakhmut was significant, despite the standard capture figures of 0.115 km2.
Today they captured almost all of the “Nest” – the most fortified area of high-rise buildings. According to Prigozhin, the Armed Forces of Ukraine have only one house left.
We wrote that it would be very difficult to keep the “private sector”. Therefore, we are forced to state that by the end of the week, most likely, Bakhmut will be lost.
Night shelling with incendiary ammunition knocks out lightly armored vehicles, which drive into the city under the cover of darkness to bring ammo and replenish and remove the wounded. This greatly complicated the position of the defenders in recent days.

https://t.me/ZeRada1/13749

Colleagues, the situation in Bakhmut is very difficult, and the counteroffensive has stalled on the flanks, strong battles are going on. After the fall of the city, there will be no point in continuing the counteroffensive, since the fortified area in Bakhmut will be used by Russian troops against the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
They will pull artillery there and strike at our troops in the fields, which means that Syrsky’s entire plan will fail, but so far no one is talking about it, but the technologists of the President’s Office are already preparing an information campaign to shift the focus from the fall of Bakhmut.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/17815

Posted by: Down South | May 17 2023 3:18 utc | 391

⚡️🇷🇺 🇺🇦🎯 On the Destruction of a Patriot Air Defence System in #Kiev⚡️
🗓 Last night (15-16 May 2023), the RF Armed Forces destroyed at least 1 Patriot anti-aircraft missile system launcher in #Kiev. Rybar’s team managed to establish the exact locations. At least 2 launchers were located at the Zhulyany airport, where the Dagger hit.
Coordinates: 50.404161, 30.443186
Another place where the work of the Ukrainian air defence was noticed was the neighborhood of the Kiev zoo, where the debris of the released missile defence system fell. The complex itself worked in close proximity to the Sikorsky Kiev Polytechnic University.
Coordinates: 50.452699, 30.459805
As for the Zhulyany airfield, the net got footage from the surveillance camera. In the video, you can clearly see the launches of 32 missiles (a total of 16 for each launcher), as well as the work of the anti-aircraft artillery – apparently, the Patriots were covered by a Gepard.
After the ammunition was used up, an explosion was heard. The Russian Dagger managed to hit the positional area, despite 2 Patriots and 1 Gepard.
Taking into account the information on CNN about the damage to the complex, if not the destruction, then at least the partial disabling of the American air defence systems can be considered. There is another interesting detail. The appearance of an insistent rumor that the SAM operators could deliberately release all the ammunition to reduce the explosion radius. That is, according to this version, they knew about the flying “Dagger” and specifically used up ammunition to reduce the force of the subsequent detonation. Alas, as it really was, we will not know.
📌 We clearly see that the Patriot is not a superweapon, and it can and should be beaten. As well as the “Gepard”, which is the 👉 second time failed to cope with the task of covering the air defence positional area from Russian weapons.

https://t.me/sitreports/8773

Posted by: Down South | May 17 2023 3:21 utc | 392

Who has good maps re: missile attacks on Ukraine territory?
(and good maps of other wars as such, for comparison…)
Of course I can research. But as layman it´s extremely difficult to assess whether it is legit.
p.s. Swiss military analyst Jacques Baud e.g. pointed out that RU launched as many missiles in the first 3 weeks of the war as the US in the first 48 hours in Iraq.
Such data is very helpful but difficult to come about.

Posted by: AG | May 17 2023 3:34 utc | 393

When is enough enough ? Well they certainly have less and less every day .
Ukraine lacks weapons to launch a counteroffensive , – Deputy Head of Zelensky’s Office
“Unfortunately, the level of equipment that we have is still not enough to launch a counteroffensive,” Igor Zhovkva said in an interview with Sky News.

Posted by: hankster | May 17 2023 3:35 utc | 394

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 16 2023 23:29 utc | 335
what’s that pete seeger song? about hammering? gonna hammer all over this land? hammering boxes, or something?
Posted by: rjb1.5 | May 17 2023 1:42 utc | 390
Trini Lopez was the original, then Peter Paul and Mary covered that song. Lots of others had as well.
Rumor has it that Congresswoman Nutty Nancy Pelossi’s husband required the services of a proctologist to recover the hammer. It was inserted, and not just the hammer handle.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | May 17 2023 3:38 utc | 395

Posted by: malenkov | May 17 2023 1:08 utc | 379
… surely you recognize a username hijack when you see it?
Yeah. So?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | May 17 2023 3:39 utc | 396

jared @198
perhaps a way for africa to assert itself as an international presence and a way to avoid sanctions for those that are resisting the hegemon. idk

Posted by: polarbear4 | May 17 2023 3:44 utc | 397

Posted by: Drapetomaniac | May 16 2023 19:26 utc | 196
maybe the arctic.

Posted by: polarbear4 | May 17 2023 3:45 utc | 398

The Dolphin | May 16 2023 23:07 utc | 320
My comment was suppose to be taken humorously.
There was nothing of a threatening nature meant to be implied.
Posted by: Jerr | May 16 2023 23:23 utc | 329
Then why didn’t you give some indication of that? Even a single exclamation mark, or /s for end of sarcasm. It is not up to a reader to GUESS the tone and intention of a writer. It is the job of the writer to convey that. Forums are full of fkn idiots who say such things in all seriousness. It’s YOUR JOB to make sure you are not taken as one.

Posted by: The Dolphin | May 17 2023 4:00 utc | 399

Melaleuca | May 17 2023 2:05 utc | 395–
That Tweet’s been scrubbed!

Posted by: karlof1 | May 17 2023 4:00 utc | 400

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