re: The US & China moving towards war
And also China/Philippines/US and Iran/Israel/US plus escalated Ukraine-NATO-US/Russia, and others . . .It's a wonderful time for the MIC because peace is simply not an option in a rules-based US-dominated international order.

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 7 2023 14:02 utc | 1

Don Bacon: you have hit upon it: Rule#1, in the Rule Based Order- There will be no peace.

Posted by: bevin | May 7 2023 14:12 utc | 2

thanks b..

the interview with geoffrey roberts and the article on the truck drivers strike are quite rewarding to read..

Posted by: james | May 7 2023 14:27 utc | 3

b, very clever link to alderman for the Broad Street Ward of the City of London, Michael Mainelli. What to say about this guy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Mainelli

That photo is so charming, were these seats reserved for those anti-monarchists that got arrested right at the start of the whole show? And speaking of conspiracies, I think this horse was not spooked, it was deliberately backed into the crowd in that exact location. (That’s a well-trained horse and rider, damn Britain.) But I could be wrong about all that. Couple minutes long video from the Royal Family Channel linked below.

https://youtu.be/xRFp4AaLNnU

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | May 7 2023 14:40 utc | 4

This Geoffrey roberts guy calls himself a historian but refuses to deal with facts on the ground, definitely a silly liberal,"Putin thought this and that,maybe" like what,is this it?

Posted by: Theredman | May 7 2023 14:43 utc | 5

a bipolar order? is also a good read.. it highlights the present tragedy reffered to as europe..

@ 5 theredman.. what exactly are your credentials? it is easy to be dismissive and of course no one is perfect.

Posted by: james | May 7 2023 15:02 utc | 6

And now Prigozhin has been offered as much ammunition as Wagner needs confirming Dugin's analysis

Posted by: Chairman Meow | May 7 2023 15:04 utc | 7

re: The US & China moving towards war
One of the amusing US actions against the country shoving the US aside, China, is the US House of 'Representatives' "Select Committee on the Strategic Competition Between the United States and the Chinese Communist Party" which was organized February 28 this year.

Why recognize China as a country when its political party is the primary US threat? Let's just say that the enemy is the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). The situation was explained by Matt Pottinger -- China Program Chairman, Foundation for the Defense of Democracies -- on Feb 28, supposedly quoting a CCP document:

Western countries conspire to infiltrate, subvert, and overthrow the CCP, so the party must stamp out Western “false ideological trends,” including constitutional democracy, the notion that Western values are universal, the concept of civil society, economic neoliberalism, journalistic independence, challenges to the party’s version of history, and competing interpretations of the party’s “reform and opening” agenda. “In the face of these threats,” exhorted Document No. 9, “we must not let down our guard or decrease our vigilance.” . . .here

This Committee’s work is urgent and important because the United States has fallen behind in the consequential competition with the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). For too long leaders across the private sector in academia, industry, and finance as well as the public sector across multiple administrations and Congresses clung to the assumption that China, having been welcomed into the international system, would play by the rules and, as China prospered, would liberalize its economy and form of governance. Reality proved otherwise, but many leaders were slow to overcome wishful thinking and self-delusion concerning the intentions of the CCP. As a result, the United States and other nations across the free world underwrote the erosion of their competitive advantages through the transfer of capital and technology to a strategic competitor determined to gain preponderant economic and military power. This Committee can help the United States catch up in the competition with the CCP. . . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 7 2023 15:27 utc | 8

It is the Communist Party of China.
What is it that Americans find so difficult about that formulation?
My guess is that the deepseated, inherent racism of US culture dictates the necessity of first indentifying the ethnicity. The philosophy is secondary.
What matters is not that they are Communists but that they are Chinese.
It's always all about racism. Creole culture always was.

Posted by: bevin | May 7 2023 15:37 utc | 9

...you may buy land now as cheap as stinking mack'rel.
Prince. Why then, it is like, if there come a hot June, and this
civil buffeting hold, we shall buy maidenheads as they buy
hobnails, by the hundreds.
Fal. By the mass, lad, thou sayest true; it is like we shall have
good trading that way.
1 Henry 4

family values! look at the family values in action of the war state from the fine family programming found at places like Pornhub and Redtube.

"satyrs and their child wives, soaking up our primitive lives" - david bowie

btw, in case you haven't realized this, treating people as sex toys is part of slavery. including children. this kind of shit has been around a long, long time.

BAWD.
Thou sayest true: ’tis not our bringing up of poor bastards,—as, I think, I have brought up some eleven—

BOULT.
Ay, to eleven; and brought them down again. But shall I search the market?

BAWD.
What else, man? The stuff we have, a strong wind will blow it to pieces, they are so pitifully sodden.

PANDAR.
Thou sayest true; they’re too unwholesome, o’ conscience. The poor Transylvanian is dead, that lay with the little baggage.

BOULT.
Ay, she quickly pooped him; she made him roast-meat for worms. But I’ll go search the market.
-Pericles, Prince of Tyre

Posted by: rjb1.5 | May 7 2023 15:46 utc | 10

"The US & China moving towards war - with U.S. Ambassador Chas Freeman"

Wonder what Chas did to get two major powers to declare war on him!

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 7 2023 15:48 utc | 11

"The US & China moving towards war - with U.S. Ambassador Chas Freeman"

Wonder what Chas did to get two major powers to declare war on him!

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 7 2023 15:48 utc | 12

re: European Disunity
As US-Germany ties weaken, the US has found a buddy in Poland.
...from the Pentagon...

Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III and Polish Defense Minister Mariusz Blaszczak discussed the situation in Ukraine and ways to strengthen interoperability between the United States and Poland during a meeting at the Pentagon.

Blaszczak said the challenging security situation on NATO's eastern front as a result of the Russian invasion "has modified the landscape of the Polish-American defense relations and confirmed our commitment to security and stability in the region."

The Polish defense minister praised the solidarity, unity and unprecedented support, saying he's convinced it will continue until Ukraine's victory.

Poland is the site of a U.S.-led NATO Battle Group, and the country hosts thousands of U.S. service members. Poland is investing in facilities for the U.S. forces, including the headquarters for the U.S. V Corps.

Poland has divested itself of much old, Soviet-era equipment and has invested in state-of-the-art U.S. systems, including the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, the Abrams tank, the Patriot missile system, and the HIMARS multiple rocket-launching system. "I trust that these acquisitions, which will also pave the way for more intense cooperation of our defense industries, ... ensure an effective maintenance of the U.S.-made equipment used by the Polish armed forces in support of this aspect of our cooperation," Blaszczak said. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 7 2023 16:10 utc | 13

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 7 2023 16:10 utc | 13

Not Buddy, a pliable puppet.
I bet those F-35's will see very little air time.

Posted by: Tom_12 | May 7 2023 16:21 utc | 14

In the name of the party in Mandarin Chinese, "China" (Zhongguo") comes before "Communist" and "Party".

Posted by: Lysias | May 7 2023 16:21 utc | 15

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/61099

☢️ IAEA Issues Warning Over Europe’s Largest Nuclear Power Plant

...

Said the man who won’t admit who’s been shelling ZNPP ..

Posted by: anon2020 | May 7 2023 16:23 utc | 16

^^^ Damn, wrong thread, sorry about that, here’s what I wanted to post:

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/61099

🇺🇸 In the United States, 20 LNG plants and about 17 refineries have burned down in a year.

And here again is a video of a fire at a Shell-owned refinery near Houston.

Posted by: anon2020 | May 7 2023 16:25 utc | 17

I thought it was clandestine footage of a witches coven, but in actuality Hilary Clinton was an invited speaker at a Canadian Liberal Party gathering.

In remarks, Clinton lamented Russia was not attacked by NATO in 2008, let alone 2014. Now, “Ukraine has to win” and democracies must “send everything they can” to facilitate. Deputy PM Freeland added: “The single strongest message of deterrence we can send to China is a decisive Ukrainian victory that says to all the world’s dictators, ‘You know what, democracy is prepared to fight back and democracy can actually win.”’ Perhaps “democracy” should have attacked China in 2008.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9678768/liberal-convention-hillary-clinton-russia-ukraine-china/

Canada’s spy agencies have been running a whisper campaign focussed on anonymous leaks to the Globe And Mail newspaper, outlining covert Chinese manipulation and coercion programs directed at conservative politicians. Despite a lack of evidence or even clear understanding of what may or may not have occurred, these rumours are put to use to demand public inquiries which will be used to damage the elected government and promote the conservative opposition. The focus on malign foreign influence might be misplaced in light of the malign influence and manipulation of the voting public so close to home.

Posted by: jayc | May 7 2023 16:26 utc | 18

🇺🇸 In the United States, 20 LNG plants and about 17 refineries have burned down in a year.

And here again is a video of a fire at a Shell-owned refinery near Houston.

Posted by: anon2020 | May 7 2023 16:25 utc | 17

Either it's random happenstance which is highly unlikely or it is being done on purpose. In which case, in a 'real' Republic which the US no longer is unfortunately, both Press and Government would be moving Heaven and Earth to get to the bottom of this. They are not because it's a Republic in Name Only.

Whoever is doing this might well be aligned with globalists et alia which is why I suspect, though cannot prove, that the entire SMO is part of the same para-nation-state 'Globalist' organized take-down / Reset operation - as were the global lock-downs under cover of an over-hyped global health emergency.

Posted by: Scorpion | May 7 2023 16:49 utc | 19

Posted by: Scorpion | May 7 2023 16:49 utc | 19
yeah, cuz in this toxic train derailment called a nation, it's not possible these things are now SOP. or maybe it's also part of the NWO/Soros-funded reset that US planes don't fly?

moreover, aside from the question of war, why is it a bad thing LNG capacity is being destroyed?

why is that not a good thing? a necessary thing?

oh right, neither people nor machines actually need clean water to function. and we learn from our STEM studies, that we do not live by a relationship of osmosis and respiration w/our environment.

Mudhoney - Poisoned Water Poisons The Mind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvtPvRfH4Yk

Posted by: rjb1.5 | May 7 2023 16:59 utc | 20

The following should probably be in the previous thread, but I don't want it buried under 400 comments as I think the questions have some importance.

I have asked the following before. Why is the Wagner Group in Ukraine? Why did Russia's MoD need to hire the PMC?

I share Machiavelli's low opinion of mercenaries: they are treacherous, and they will betray you if they think that they will make more money. Therefore the latest stunt by Prigozhin is predictable.

Posted by: Cyril | May 7 2023 17:03 utc | 21

@ Scorpion | May 7 2023 16:49 utc | 19

---

Industrial capacity has steadily eroded for decades. A hollowed out industrial base cannot produce at its designed rate without breaking. The resulting certain accidents require no planning or agency. Furthermore, no one is held responsible for the losses incurred. Externalized costs are gravy.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TCU

Posted by: too scents | May 7 2023 17:05 utc | 22

The number one rule of the rules-based nation: you will buy all your weapons at the company store.

Posted by: Elmagnostic | May 7 2023 17:16 utc | 23

@13

pentagon don’t mention poles have been parking f-16 since 2008

lusting for the less usable new stuff like f-35

poles new market for shiny pentagon junk

Posted by: paddy | May 7 2023 17:21 utc | 24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8x0weOPhGc
Civilization (Bongo, Bongo, Bongo)

"...i think i'll stay where i OHM".

life on the congo. killing everything, for ivory.

when kurtz's fiancee asks marlowe what kurtz's last words were, he says,

your name.

not "the horror. the horror".

conrad doesn't allow marlowe to get away w/the deception.

mistah kurtz ain't quite dead yet.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | May 7 2023 17:25 utc | 25

from Asia Times--
Fourth Industrial Revolution slow to start in America
Bureaucratic snags and US corporate caution push back 5G adoption while China surges ahead

NEW YORK – While Chinese factories have installed 6,000 private 5G broadband networks to support AI applications in manufacturing, only a handful of large US manufacturers have done or are planning to do so.
General Motors, which sold more cars in China than in the US last year, was an early adopter, and machinery giant John Deere expects to have a 5G network operating sometime late in 2023. But there is no indication of widespread adoption as in China.
A key obstacle to 5G adoption in the United States is a cumbersome regulatory framework that makes it hard for private networks to gain access to wireless spectrum. “Spectrum supply is also a serious problem and part of why we haven’t seen more commitment to onshore, non-consumer 5G,” a US official told Asia Times on background. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 7 2023 17:45 utc | 26

@ too scents | May 7 2023 17:05 utc | 22

It isn’t just declining industrial capacity; it’s also crumbling infrastructure. Spending money on infrastructure is anathema in a corporate world that valorized making fast bucks for executive bonuses and keeping up the stream of pennies to mom-and-pop shareholders who are roped into the system by their retirement accounts.

And while sabotage is always possible—how strange our talking heads aren’t all lining up to blame Russians or Chinese—crumbling infrastructure necessarily invites catastrophic accidents.

Posted by: malenkov | May 7 2023 17:47 utc | 27

I started watching the Chas Freeman interview, but when he started babbling about Putin invading Ukraine on a whim, with no plan and no clear goals, I turned it off.

The guy is clueless.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 7 2023 17:53 utc | 28

Lysias @15

The official English name of 中国共产党 is “Communist Party of China"(CPC), though the adjective 中国(Zhong Guo: China) is in front of “Communist Party" in its 中文(Chinese) name.

Western politicians and MSM choose to use the derogative CCP while ignoring the offical name CPC just proofs the point made by bevin@9.

Posted by: lulu | May 7 2023 17:59 utc | 29

Here's another opinion from Philippines on the recent Manila lay-down for the US.
. . .from Manila Times. . .

. . .But the real question is, do we, Filipinos, feel more safe and secure now that Biden has assured us of "ironclad" protection from Chinese "aggression?" Why does Biden want to make us feel we are the ones, rather than the US, that's threatening China with war, or being threatened by China with war, on account of Taiwan? Have we said or done anything to threaten China's plan to reintegrate Taiwan into the mainland? Have we not rather gotten into this mess only after granting military sites to the US as part of its war preparations against China over the ownership of Taiwan? We accuse China of provoking us, but aren't we the ones creating the provocation?
In Cagayan, people are protesting two EDCA military sites granted to the US without prior consultation with them and certainly without their consent. They feel that the two US military sites, one of them located in a civilian air base, make them direct targets of Chinese preemptive or retaliatory strikes, which not even ''ironclad US protection" may be able to prevent. Some of them recall that during the Vietnam war, the US Air Force used to stage bombing raids on Vietnam from Clark Air Base; these exposed the Philippines to retaliatory attacks, except that North Vietnam did not have the capability to strike back. But if war breaks out with China, the Chinese will not lack the capability to retaliate. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 7 2023 18:00 utc | 30

@ 29
And let's remember that 中国(Zhong Guo: China) translates to: Central Kingdom. . .other countries revolve around it.

Posted by: Don Bacon | May 7 2023 18:03 utc | 31

Don Bacon @ 8

Why the Western neoliberals and neocons whine about China/CPC cracks down their very actions spread in China when " Western countries conspire to infiltrate, subvert, and overthrow the CCP"?!

The Western and Soros almost succeeded in achieving their goal via brainwashing Chinese intelligentsia, - the pro-Western influence still existing in China's high education/media/music/film/literature today-, and corrupting the officials and CPC party memebers.

The apex of their anti-China/CPC action is the failed "Colour Revolution" aka so-called "Tiananmen Movement". Western MSM created the non-existing "Tiananmen Massacre" and the iconic but misleading Tank Man to brainwash Western populace and world viewers in order to support the Westen's "coup d'état" in China.

Posted by: lulu | May 7 2023 18:27 utc | 32

Always appreciate a good Wolfgang Streeck essay. He always chooses his words very carefully and grasps the big picture that a lot of us tend to miss because we're focused on the minutiae and day to day horrors and atrocities of modern financial capitalism, to include every single war raging across the globe, almost always with Uncle Scam's dirty hands somewhere in the picture.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 7 2023 18:55 utc | 33

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 7 2023 17:53 utc | 28

Cut him a little slack - he's subject to the same full scale information totalitarianism/warfare that we are. His focus is really more China and Africa. In the video linked, he gives Russia credit for being able to make a good account of themselves despite being up against the USEUNATO world domination cartel.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 7 2023 19:00 utc | 34

Central Kingdom. . .other countries revolve around it.

Don Bacon @31
-------------------------------------------------------
This is a mis-interpretation and purposeful wrong translation by the Western, IMHO.

Just like some of Western journalists & China experts purposefully translate certain Chinese sayings and Chinese government/leaders' statements in a wrong and misleading way so as to project China/Chinese leaders/CPC in a certain way, usually negative and derogative.

China is also called "华夏“(Hua Xia), 中华(Zhong Hua )神州(Shen Zhou), etc.

Here are some of the explainations why China is called 中国(Zhong Guo):

- When Chinese ancestor initially settled down in the Yellow River basin, center of Chinese civilisation and culture, they thought Yellow River basin was the center of the world.

(I guess the ancestors of all the other nations and people initally had the same thought: their place was the center of the world.)

- According to《说文解字》[shuō wén jiě zì: Etymology of Chinese characters] (986 AD), “中” means the center of the seed/grain.

The center of the seed/grain means “ 仁”(ren: benevolence; humanity)。中国(Zhong Guo: China) means a country of benevolence; humanity.

“ 仁” is the core of Confucius' political and world view.

- According to《周礼》[zhōu lǐ: Rites of Zhou Dynasty] (1046 BC – 256 BC), one of the Thirteen Confucian Classics, Chinese ancestors used 土圭 (Tu Gui: jade template) to have found a place where “ 仁”(ren) located and also God/Heaven would provide protection to people who'd live there. So, they decided to settle down there and set up a country called “中国”(Zhong Guo: China) - benevolence and protected.

Posted by: lulu | May 7 2023 19:49 utc | 35

Tom_Q: Wouldn’t it be at least as correct to note that he’s been part of that full scale information totalitarianism/warfare machine for decades?

Posted by: malenkov | May 7 2023 19:50 utc | 36

Here is the link of the explainations of why China is called 中国(Zhong Guo).

You can use Deepl, a German online translation site to read more details.

Posted by: lulu | May 7 2023 19:51 utc | 37

Photograph captioned Britain would more accurately be titled England. For what was occurring in Scotland search AUOB Glasgow. 20,000 people take to the streets of Glasgow during the Coronation to March for Scottish Independence

Posted by: Vivian O’Blivion | May 7 2023 19:53 utc | 38

There is a way to say "Communist Party of China" in Mandarin Chinese: Zhongguo de Gongchandang. That is not the name the party chose for itself. The name it chose for itself, Zhongguogongchandang, literally translated, is: China Communist Party. Or, in idiomatic English: Chinese Communist Party.

Posted by: Lysias | May 7 2023 19:55 utc | 39

lulu: I think your point would be stronger if you didn’t refer to Zhong Guo in the CPC’s name as an adjective but as a noun.

For that matter, one could also point out that Western terms like “noun” and “adjective” aren’t entirely satisfactory terms for categorizing non-Indo-European grammars. (I can imagine my Chomskyan linguistics teacher hurling a brickbat at me all the way from Berlin…)

Posted by: [email protected] | May 7 2023 19:56 utc | 40

Everything that has been happening for God knows how long is part of a bigger plan by the people who want to rule the world (the globalist bankers). All these wars, crises, it's all manufactured... Now they're almost done. They only need World War 3 and to take out cash (and microchip all of us) and their plan of world domination is complete. A One World Government and a One World Currency, with everyone microchipped and no cash makes us slaves. Just think about it for a moment. What are you going to do if there's no cash, and you want to protest something these evil people are doing? They're going to freeze your bank account, like they have already done, and you won't be able to buy food. So, you stay quiet. Or you starve. Your choice. Doesn't that make you effectively a slave?

They're almost there, and people don't even seem to understand the predicament they're in. Wake up folks, you don't have much time left..

Posted by: just somebody | May 7 2023 20:05 utc | 41

[email protected] @40

Thank you! Though I understand what you mean, but the official English name for 中国共产党 chosen by 中国共产党 is Communist Party of China (CPC) . @ Lysias @39

Posted by: lulu | May 7 2023 20:11 utc | 42

lulu: Precisely why I’d consider Zhong Guo a noun, or simply leave the matter to the CPC to decide for us—it's their name, after all.

I have similar problems with such incorrect abominations as “People’s Democratic Republic of Laos” (for hopefully obvious reasons).

Posted by: malenkov | May 7 2023 20:21 utc | 43

Posted by: Vivian O’Blivion | May 7 2023 19:53 utc | 38

Maybe not 20000 in Glasgow for the AUOB march.

https://twitter.com/UKaForceForGood/status/1654861829087133698
There were 3,726 on the All Under One Banner (AUOB) Scot nationalist anti-monarchy march in Glasgow, Sat 6 May 2023. It took 27 mins to pass A Force For Good's counting point. Our video is to be uploaded at
aforceforgood.uk

Also
https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1655290329623412741

Posted by: GT Stroller | May 7 2023 20:25 utc | 44

"...the US has found a buddy in Poland"

Don Bacon @ 13
-----------------------------------
By accident, I listened to an interview with a German Dirk Müller, a straight shooter stockbroker, fund manager and book author, who said some very interesting re Poland's ascending relation with USA and Germany's declining:

During the Cold War, (West) Germany used to be a "frontier land" between West and East (Soviet Union block). US pumped a lot of money and shifted a lot of industry production to develop (West) Germany so as to make it a shining example of the West (USA & allies) against East (Soviet block).

With NATO expansion, now Germany is no more a frontier country, Poland is the new "frontier land" between US and Russia. US is shifting its attention and investment to Poland while leaving Germany as a sacrificed lamb, i.e. bombing of NS gas lines, de-indstralising Germany manufacturing.

Posted by: lulu | May 7 2023 20:32 utc | 45

Posted by: malenkov | May 7 2023 19:50 utc | 36

Freeman? Kinda goes without saying if you read his biography. Maybe he's "reformed." Regardless, he gets most of what he says right in the linked conversation.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 7 2023 20:43 utc | 46

Is the ability to issue and service debt related to energy abundance? Could well be some difficult consequences emerging somewhere.

https://ourfiniteworld.com/2023/05/04/the-bumpy-road-ahead-for-the-world-economy/

Some selected quotes from the piece:

If world energy supply is growing, it encourages growth of the world economy. Growing energy supply indirectly allows debt to be paid back with interest. In general, the faster the world’s energy supply is growing, the higher the interest rate that can be supported.

Without growth in energy supply, an individual economy is forced to become a service economy. It is forced to import almost all of the manufactured goods that it needs, even armaments needed for war. Such an economy is forced to place an emphasis on growing debt and growing complexity. Unfortunately, both of these things are subject to diminishing returns. As growth in energy supply turns to shrinkage in energy supply, we should expect debt bubbles to pop.

~~~

US crude oil production rose rapidly until 1970, when it suddenly started falling. Work was quickly begun on oil extraction from the North Slope of Alaska. This oil offset most of the decline in oil production from the lower 48 states through the mid-1980s.

US hegemony depends upon the quantity of energy products US businesses and citizens consume. When oil prices become unaffordable, citizens and businesses buy less.

~~~

Once oil prices began to rise again in the 2005 to 2008 period, US oil from shale became available in response to higher prices. The catch was that at these higher prices, oil tended to be unaffordable by the American public. Oil was still affordable in most of the Rest of the World, however.

These “Rest of the World” countries tended to use oil much more sparingly in their energy mix. They often had other advantages as well: warmer climate, lower wage levels, recently built factories, and an energy mix that emphasized coal (which tended to be inexpensive). These advantages helped bring down costs of both manufacturing and resource extraction for the Rest of the World.

This shift in manufacturing and resource extraction away from the US and Affiliates creates problems, however. If the US and Affiliates are increasingly at odds with countries outside this group, it becomes much harder for the US to exert hegemony over these countries. The problem is that the US depends upon the countries it is at odds with for necessities. Even in making munitions for the Ukrainian conflict, the US needs to depend on China and other Asian countries for parts of its supply lines.

I apologise for not finding articles or links that approach the depth or intensity of some of our posters here, but I hope barflies will find the above something worthwhile to chew on. I first came across the “Our Finite World” blog some years ago and I was suspicious that it might have been a ‘greenwashing’ site but I have found some thought-provoking stuff there. In the archives there are several posts discussing the difference between peak oil and peak affordable oil, and the impact of this difference.

Posted by: West of England Andy | May 7 2023 20:45 utc | 47

What is this we are supposed to be seeing in the picture labeled Britain? Some fool set up a viewing party for the coronation of King Chuck and nobody showed up? What are the greater implications? I know several Americans who were hooked on the whole proceeding yesterday.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 7 2023 20:47 utc | 48

What's happening in Russian prisons? On social media a Russian Orthodox priest relates the following. He tells about a man who came to him with the wish to be baptized. Why do you want to be baptized, the priest asks the man. Well, the man replies, I have been sitting in prison. The Russian Orthodox Church is distributing the Gospel among the prisoners. These prisoners have the habit of tearing pages out of these books and sticking them on the grey prison walls in order to make these walls less mind-dulling. In the same manner, the man continues, the toilets are presently being decorated with Gospel pages. Once it happened that the man went to the toilet and started to read. He became so fascinated by what he read, that he continued sitting on the toilet until he had read all the writings on the walls. And that's why he did come to the priest after being released.

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | May 7 2023 21:02 utc | 49

just somebody | May 7 2023 20:05 utc | 41--

Commerce, communal relations and other interactions between humans predate the invention of money; so, money is not a requirement for human existence. There's no single global currency coming that's going to enslave humanity. The 4,000+ yearlong Class War between Creditors and Debtors is coming to a head with Debtors finally forming a global Bloc against the Financial Parasite Bloc. The way forward is shown by China, Russia and other nations--People Centered Development is the path RoW will follow in ways adapted by each nation. I suggest becoming somebody.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 7 2023 21:16 utc | 50

Posted by: lulu | May 7 2023 19:49 utc | 35

Thanks! Beautiful explanation...

Posted by: Scorpion | May 7 2023 21:20 utc | 51

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 7 2023 20:47 utc | 48

I can successfully claim to have not caught a glimpse of some inbred with ears like open taxicab doors having some carefully crafted precious metal dumped on his head. Pity it wasn’t a Kinzhal he was crowned with...

(If TypePad, which is increasingly becoming the Fiat Mirafiori of forum software, lets me post this)

Posted by: West of England Andy | May 7 2023 21:30 utc | 52

The 4,000+ yearlong Class War between Creditors and Debtors is coming to a head with Debtors finally forming a global Bloc against the Financial Parasite Bloc.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 7 2023 21:16 utc | 50

That to me is the single most crucial schlusselpunkt. If you find articles dealing with this specifically would be most grateful. I hope what you say comes true but don't see enough yet to be sure.

Posted by: Scorpion | May 7 2023 21:30 utc | 53

BTW, can anyone explain the rules of baseball to me? In a country with millions of hectares/acres of trees, they can’t afford some proper wooden stumps?!

Posted by: West of England Andy | May 7 2023 21:39 utc | 54

Actually, cancel my last post, I‘ve worked out the rules for myself:-

Some guy throws a ball

Some guy pretend to try and hit it

Another guy throws a ball

Another guy pretends to hit it

In depth studio analysis from “experts”

So who wins?

Posted by: West of England Andy | May 7 2023 21:48 utc | 55

Posted by: West of England Andy | May 7 2023 21:30 utc | 52

I had less than zero interest in it myself. Had to ignore several texts from family members talking about how cute some royal kid was or something.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 7 2023 21:48 utc | 56

I'm not a fan of baseball, but instinctively the rules are a lot more clear to me than those of rugby. And what's the point of the "offsides" rule in futbol/soccer?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 7 2023 21:59 utc | 57

And while I'm here, WTF actually is "icing" in hockey?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 7 2023 22:00 utc | 58

Curently just passing through, but a few drive-by remarks:

1. @West of England Andy, I was going to say that from the comments of yours I've read here, you have nothing to apologize for regarding their quality - I've admired them greatly. Of course, then we started discussing sports...

2. Regarding the intricate subtleties being discussed over the formally correct name in English for the CPC: not one person in the west using the wrong acronym is doing it because of any one of those subtleties.

3. Just saw a great meme over at Coffee & Covid:

"BREAKING: Scientists warn that Earth could run out of conspiracy theories by 2025 if they keep coming true at the current rate."

Posted by: Grieved | May 7 2023 22:15 utc | 59

@ West of England Andy | May 7 2023 21:39 utc | 54

From the perspective of a spectator, there’s only one rule to baseball: Have a beer while waiting for something to happen.

Posted by: malenkov | May 7 2023 22:24 utc | 60

West of England Andy | May 7 2023 20:45 utc | 47--

The energy issue remains central to modern economies and their development. What's changed is the control over energy distribution and the nations having the greatest proven reserves, the West losing control and rapidly approaching the end of their proven reserves. The West broke many things when it imposed its "Sanctions From Hell" on Russia in March 2022, two of the most critical were control over energy distribution and control over the international financial system. The former was lost almost immediately as it was already very tenuous and caused the Outlaw US Empire to eliminate the Nord Stream energy distribution system is its hopeless attempt to keep Russian energy out of the global market. The theft of Iran, Venezuela, Afghanistan, and Russia's foreign reserves over the years has proven to RoW that the dollar and the international structure erected to maintain its hegemony must be abandoned, and one of the first things to commence was the use of national currencies in the energy trade.

One of the many deficits displayed by Neocons and Neoliberals is lack of geologic knowledge when it comes to energy reserves. They seem to think plentiful energy will always be there for them to use when the opposite is true for the nations within the Dollar Bloc. While renewable on the scale of Geologic Time, oil and gas deposits are finite within human time spans and will run dry. The Southern California bloc and the North Sea bloc are two excellent examples. The need to resort to hydraulic fracking to access "tight" oil and gas is another sign that the end is near. And the utter lack of foresight to develop infrastructure in Alaska to exploit the energy deposits on and offshore will soon be more than lamented--it will be damned. The ignorant politicos will point to Canada and its huge bitumen deposits while lacking the awareness of what it takes to turn those solid deposits into a liquid capable of being further refined--water and gas, neither of which exist in the amounts required to mine what's there, the most finite being gas. Canada is not going to save America's bacon. Even in its deindustrialized state, the Outlaw US Empire uses as much oil now as it did when it had a strong manufacturing base. All one need do is look at the roads and the design of suburbia to understand where the bulk of that oil is used. Few know what Team Biden's doing with the Strategic Petroleum Reserve--it's being depleted to slow the rise of inflation and decline of GDP, both of which are political decisions that are using the SPR in an undesigned manner--much of that's being exported to maintain the fiction that the USA is an oil exporting nation. Price arbitrage (greed) is the reason why a critical, finite resource is being sent abroad instead of being saved for use within the nation. And once depleted, the SPR won't be refilled.

This remains the best chart for proven gas reserves and years remaining at current extraction rates. Take note of when the data was provided and subtract the number of years of remining production. For the USA, that's 12 and for Canada that's 10. Here's the listing for proven oil reserves. The EIA column's data is from 2020. Again, Canada's amount is fictitious as it doesn't have the other required resources to mine its Bitumen deposits. Venezuela by contrast has a different type of heavy oil that can be processed, although its stated rate of production is much lower due to illegal sanctions on its industry and could easily quadruple that rate. Again, take note of the few years the USA has remaining at the current extraction rate. Severe demand destruction could extend that time. Plus, there's the ever rising rate of depletion that will cut the rate of extraction as we go forward. Yes, minor fields are still discovered that add to proven reserves, but all the giant fields were discovered first and within the lower 48 are already greatly depleted.

The world has enough energy reserves to empower the Global South's development and also to build the infrastructure required for the post-hydrocarbon energy era and the advent of sustainable economies where growth will change from mostly industrial products to mostly intellectual products. Eventually, wealth will be measured by the amount of wisdom assets attained as that's what will be required to manage and sustain future societies. That situation also implies conflict and needless competition will be eliminated from human cultures and societies as being both useless and counterproductive. To attain the peaceful world of tomorrow means instituting the multilateral, multipolar world ASAP while leaving the Age of Plunder and the Creditor vs Debtor Class War behind as the dysfunctional relics they are and must become.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 7 2023 22:28 utc | 61

West of England Andy@55

Have you never played Rounders? When I was a boy, in the West Country, it was a game we often played.

Grieved@59

You are, of course correct about the behaviour of ordinary people- they just follow the lead of the headline writers and news readers.

But it is far from being an accident that all of the enemies of China, and of ordinary people, choose to use a term that highights the 'alien' ethnicity. One which has long been the systematic object of racist campaigns, a vague "Yellow man" multitude often mistaken for 'Japs' or 'Gooks' or 'Slanteyes' of the sort to be found in the viewfinders of USAF bombers or the sights of GIs rifles.

Posted by: bevin | May 7 2023 22:40 utc | 62

Scorpion @53--

Hudson's writings over the last 15 years are all directed at that issue. His newest The Collapse of Antiquity draws direct links between then and now as the dynamic involved is essentially the same. In response, we have the Global Fracture as the world divides into two distinctly different Blocs, one with plentiful resources and one lacking them, the latter also burdened with unsustainable debt that will cause its economies to implode. Currently, everything resembles unfinished lumber, rough, full of splinters, unfinished, but full of potential. Yet, daily the lumber's worked on and turned into a more useable quality. Eventually, the new Global House will be finished, perhaps with an unfinished dog house still for the few refusing to become human.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 7 2023 22:45 utc | 63

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 7 2023 20:47 utc | 48
You may read the thread from bottom to top - the order in which the posts show up. Were that I had the time to read these threads top to bottom!
You may have missed
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | May 7 2023 14:40 utc | 4
which explains the significance of the photo chosen.
Thanks everyone! There is a lot to think and worry about here. The Ukraine stuff is so soul crushingly dreadful.
rjb1.5 - Thanks for the Danny Kaye. It made me laugh. That's a great one which I will share.
Here's a live version of Enjoy Yourself.
It's later than you think.

Posted by: lex talionis | May 7 2023 22:47 utc | 64

malenkov | May 7 2023 22:24 utc | 60
If beer didn’t already exist sports and (sporting venues) would have had to invent it.
And then Budlite decided it’s customer base was too “fratty” and sportsball loving….. and then, suddenly one day, just one small advertising campaign later… they lost their customers overnight.
> Fenway Park Budlite ghoststall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeJQbMkN8fw

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 7 2023 22:51 utc | 65

bevin | May 7 2023 22:40 utc | 62
>…”found in the viewfinders of USAF bombers or the sights of GIs rifles.”
Which is why Russians are now “Orks”
And Ukrainians are “vatniks”.
It’s hard to kill someone you see as human.
Even harder for Russians and Ukrainians who are very likely killing relatives / distant cousins.
In some cases, close relatives.

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 7 2023 22:57 utc | 66

Melaleuca | May 7 2023 22:51 utc | 65

The American corporate elite are experimenting with how to separate their conservatives from their populists and determining where the fault lines lie. You'll see more of this over the next year whilst the world burns.

Posted by: Bruschetto | May 7 2023 23:01 utc | 67

melaleuca: The whole Bud Lite kerfuffle is one big SMH. You simply don’t piss off your customer base to score brownie points with a customer base that’s tiny and only potential. You. Just. Don’t.

The Coors folks were at least savvy, if cynical: advertise in gay publications to get their market—and donate to Focus on the Family.

Posted by: malenkov | May 7 2023 23:07 utc | 68

Posted by: lulu | May 7 2023 19:49 utc | 35:

Great post Lulu. As you said, the Middle Kingdom translation of Zhongguo was a deliberate slant on Chinese arrogance (or even implied Chauveiism) by early translators, so as to cast China in negative lights.

In ancient Chinese literature, authors needed to convey the "us versus them" chasm in the Hua ethnic regions to the surrounding neighbors. Since Hua was surrounded by many ethnicities of variant culture/lifestyles, these authors referred to their own kingdom as central kingdom, for brevity and convenience. It had no connotations to mean Central Kingdom or Middle of Universe Kingdom.

In those days, The Yangzi River Region was known as Jin Man, meaning savages of Jin, Jin being the ancient name of today's Wuhan. Shanghai region was referred to as Eastern Yi, meaning the uncultured people of the east. Northern nomads were the Huns and Jiangs, Southwestern regions were called the Southern Yi. By the way, Tobo people, or what are known as Tibetans today, did not live in Tibet at that time. They were in Northwest China where today's Qinghai Province is. Fujian, Guangdong, and today's Vietnam were considered as one, known as Yue Yi. These literatures I referred to above are dated over 2,0000 years ago, from all across today's China proper.

No, guys and gals, Chinese people weren't so vain as to boast themselves to be some kinds of "selected" people of some deity, as some savage ethnicities today are proned to do.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | May 8 2023 0:43 utc | 69

Chas Freeman is a retired former ambassador of the United States. His pension, social roots, and practically all lifeline connections are tied to being royal to the nascent official USA government narratives. You think he would spill beans about the real situation of the Russian conflict in the public??? C'mon, give me a break!!!

Posted by: Oriental Voice | May 8 2023 0:51 utc | 70

ClownZ was born in the Soviet Union. So all docs would have been in Russian.
>… January 25, 1978, Kryvyi Rih, Ukrainian SSR, Soviet Union (now Ukraine)
Born to a Ukrainian Jewish family, Zelenskyy grew up as a native Russian speaker in Kryvyi Rih, a major city of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast in central Ukraine.——
Until now I wondered how people could betray their country.
But then I really began to pay attention to Australian politicians and business “entrepreneurs”. And understood money, power, influence, status is all that matters.

kludt | May 7 2023 17:12 utc | 39
Where’s wal-Zel. We @bar are anticipating a showcase appearance at the Eurovision in Liverpool. It’s scheduled to start to coincide with May 9 in Moscow.
Russia: Parade in defeat of nazis
EUROVISION: Parade of nazis

Of flags. Ukrainian.
I did flag and succumbed to watching a few brief yt Coronation “highlights”.
I noticed on long aerial view down the abbey..Had yellow and blue expanses of carpet.
Hmmmmm. I thought. Yellow and blue aren’t traditional British monarchy colors, are they?
What would be the symbolism of that? Yet another territory whipped and now under the Throne (as that’s where the carpet was placed) ?

NJH | May 7 2023 23:09 utc | 142
I’d ever actually eat popcorn if off-hisMeds-vedev called out 9/11 Building 7, the Pentagram missile hit and … release Soviet documents on Lee Harvey Oswald’s sojourn in Moscow.

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 8 2023 2:13 utc | 71

West of England Andy #47

Thank you for that oil overview. Oil dependency has its downside given the equation described in your link:

https://ourfiniteworld.com/2023/05/04/the-bumpy-road-ahead-for-the-world-economy/

Then there is the obvious international rivalry engendered in its extraction.

I guess that is why China is hell bent on a majority electric auto fleet by 2030. Shipping lithium across the planet seems a better equation especially when every ton in the ships hold can ultimately be recharged 1000 times.

Aside from all other energy for stationary needs, there is a determined effort devoted to developing even better battery systems including reduced resource extraction/pollution than lithium presents.

Gradually that oil/indebtedness formula is being bypassed.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 8 2023 2:15 utc | 72

Chas Freeman on the Duran.

Scraping the shit right off the bottom of the barrel.

I posted this blunt criticism of the Duran only yesterday and I urge serious barflies to consider it carefully:

https://roloslavskiy.substack.com/p/alexander-mercouris-really-doesnt

So I am not surprised they are seriously, deep and meaningfully, yacking with Chas. Did they spend an entire hour on it?

Plus on the Syria reports posted above: Do consider Syriana Analysis by Kevork Almassian for a serious analysis of the middle east geopolitical landscape.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 8 2023 2:28 utc | 73

It’s official, documents have been signed, Syria is now a member of the Arab league again.
https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1655170540598882304

Peter Ford says the Arab League countries had been deceived by the United States in 2011 to oust Syria.
Press
https://twitter.com/Spriter99880/status/1655381918458806273

Lost link in my Twitter-trawl:
Blinken et al U$ not happy🤣.
U$ sends rep to Saudi to repair relations.

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 8 2023 2:32 utc | 74

uncle tungsten | May 8 2023 2:28 utc | 73
I gave up on The Duran a year ago, and I was only ever briefly a clicker.
I used read their stuff way back, but then they went vid…nah.
Mercouris must be one of the worst presenters in a long list of poor presenters.
The umming and hawing, shuffling, and repetition… once I found telegram I could get the same or better info in 1/27th the time.
I personally can’t give them a whole 1hr out of my perhaps 5 precious internet hours.
Their problem is they are content creators.
They have a hungry, thirsty audience that must be fed daily.
I much prefer Brian Berletic who puts out content …… when there’s actual content.
He’s not monetized, so he doesn’t need to keep pumping stuff out for the dimes.
I have no opinion on The Duran… the way Brigade77 regurgitates his past issues says he’s independent….
Who knows. I comfortably don’t believe anyone or anything now.
Berletic’s analysis from end 2022 that USNATO would run out of munitions and face crippling supply line and maintenance issues is now validated.
—-
If I give precious vid time to anyone it’s Judging Freedom and iEarlGrey.
Napolitano is reasonably good at asking pertinent questions and not incessantly overtalking his guests. The “judge” wants real answers. I am now finding both McGregor and Ritter tedious, and they now don’t get an allocation of my time. I still enjoy Tony Schaffer and Ray McGovern.
iEarlGrey. When Mike Jones got a buhanka and started delivering supplies to Donetsk….
I thought that was naive and admirable. It seemed genuine.
I enjoy his Christoforou style walk and talks around StPete and Moscow and locations.
I now will never again travel outside Australia, so his slice-of-life vids are my window to daily life in Russia.

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 8 2023 2:56 utc | 75

uncle tungsten | May 8 2023 2:15 utc | 72--

China's NEVs are often powered by newer types of batteries like sodium ion and such. They're jamming, and I want one, like the Seagull.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 8 2023 2:57 utc | 76

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 8 2023 2:32 utc | 74
Here in pindostan I was watching switching through the TV channels. The cable is out. I passed some Farsi station, and I saw Bashar al-Assad. I was like, whoa, that's Assad. There was a news segment on the signature ceremony. It was quite pleasant. I don't speak Farsi, and the sound was coming in and out, but it made me happy.

Long Live Assad!

Posted by: lex talionis | May 8 2023 2:58 utc | 77

No, guys and gals, Chinese people weren't so vain as to boast themselves to be some kinds of "selected" people of some deity, as some savage ethnicities today are proned to do.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | May 8 2023 0:43 utc | 69
---------------

Wonder why the gardenists and the original yellow peril are such congenial pardners ?
https://journal-neo.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/MON5674352342.jpg
[two gawd's armies talking shop, er, what else but warcraft ?
Mucking around in Russia/China;s backdoor]

They'r are the chosen ones !

Both the Americans and the Mongols put their faith in the Almighty. Another parallel between the two invasions, 746 years apart, is the belief that God is running the show. Hulagu Khan said on the eve of the Baghdad sacking, that victory was in the hands of the Creator: “If God the eternal befriends me, what do I have to worry?" Lt. Gen. William “Jerry” Boykin, a Special Forces veteran in charge of counter insurgency, stated that as a commander of a “Christian army”, he “answers only to God.” Certainly not to the Geneva Conventions. A Marine Colonel said "… the enemy has got a face. He's called Satan. He lives in Falluja. And we're going to destroy him."

http://bit.ly/2tDNi14

Posted by: denk | May 8 2023 3:04 utc | 78

i have successfully avoided the coronation entirely. i hope i never have to avoid another.

Posted by: pretzelattack | May 8 2023 3:04 utc | 79

pretzelattack | May 8 2023 3:04 utc | 79
Disclaimer: not a royalist.
But won’t William have a lavish investiture as Prince of Wales, or summat?
It’s all hollywood before there was hollywood, so a new spectacle of bread and circus is necessary at intervals.
A childhood memory is the black and white tv tuned to torturous hours of Charles PoW investiture.

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 8 2023 3:09 utc | 80

Posted by: Melaleuca | May 8 2023 3:09 utc | 80

i should have known it wouldn't be easy (shakes fist at sky)

Posted by: pretzelattack | May 8 2023 3:27 utc | 81

Further to my #72

Sodium ion batteries in China and the great battle looming with the USA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrL8OB761f8

From Just Have a Think

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 8 2023 3:27 utc | 82

karlof1 #76

I just saw your post. It sure is a sweet vehicle. The electric drive train is sooooo much better than the internal combustion engine version.

It will be interesting to watch the price comparisons between China and US made items. I guarantee the USA will subsidize their industry like there is no tomorrow and then accuse China of export dumping etc., etc.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 8 2023 3:39 utc | 83

uncle tungsten | May 8 2023 3:27 utc | 82--

I researched China's NEV industry a few weeks back and was highly impressed. China's even building special purpose car carrying ships to bolster exports. I'll need to go to Mexico to get one.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 8 2023 3:42 utc | 84

uncle tungsten | May 8 2023 3:39 utc | 83--

I recall Honda's "shopping cart" hatchback that got 55 MPG with no electric anything aside from the radio, lights, instruments, and ICE. $36,000 average new car price is insane.

Posted by: karlof1 | May 8 2023 3:51 utc | 85

when you force a thought
a belief an ideology.
to bend it to a specific shape,
a risk arises. using excessive
force breaks the shape, you are
trying to create.
this world is broken

Posted by: Dingo | May 8 2023 4:03 utc | 86

Melaleuca #75

Agreed regarding Mercouris. There is little joy watching someone labouring the point about labouring the point. Some others are picking up on iEarlGrey walkabout. Love those cities in Russia.

I do like @StopHating_Russia for the breadth of images and sufficient news to get by on.

Today I will take in a few minutes of vitriol from smoothiex12 to see if he has practiced any charm yoga of late.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 8 2023 4:16 utc | 87

I find it interesting that Xinhuanet would have the following posting up

In pics: rehearsal of Victory Day military parade in Moscow

Maybe they respect the significance that Russia has for it.

Posted by: psychohistorian | May 8 2023 5:49 utc | 88

IMO only a dingbat would believe that Prigozin was the originator and planner of the Artemovsk (nazi name Bakmuht) meat grinder.
In fact its origins reach back to a series of battles from between January 8th 1942 and March 31 1943 for control of a ridgeline Northwest of Moscow, called the Rzhev-Vyazma ridge. The Rzhev-Vyazma ridge ran from between 93 to 111 miles from Moscow.
Some may recall that the winter of 1941 to 1942 was when the fascists tried to invade Moscow. Army Group Center, comprising 72 divisions was led by Field Marshal Hans Günther von Kluge and he was further assisted by Field Marshal General Walter Model's 9th Army with close to the same number of men.
The nazis had driven the Red Army troops defending the town of Rzhev out on October 24, 1941, but it was not until January 8, 1942 that the Red Army made a serious attempt to push from the top of a salient pointing straight at Rzhev which was strategically vital because not only was it the uppermost town on the bank of the Volga River, it was also railway hub making it a vital transport depot (sound familiar?).

The Red Army soldiers had destroyed all the ammunition and food storage warehouses prior to leaving but they really wanted to deny the fascists use of Rzhev for shifting supplies. Army General Georgy Zhukov and Colonel-General Ivan Konev were the main decision-makers. There were four major battles staged there until the Soviet Union did get total control and casualties on both sides were extremely high.
Historian Aleksei Isaev reckoned the Red Army losses along the entire Rzhevskaya arc from January 1942 to March 1943 were 392,554 killed in battle and 768,233 lost to disease. other military sources claim 605,984 deaths.

On the other hand total nazi losses thru all stages of campaign were approx 817,500 dead.
If you search the net you'll find awful descriptions of entire fields covered by worm and maggot ridden corpses three bodies deep.
This is why the series of battles came to be known as "The Rzhev meat-grinder".

Whatever the true figure was if it could have been calculated, a big mob of human beings died in those battles.

If you are interested and not a voyeur of death "Soviet Storm" the Russian documentary on the Great Patriotic War has devoted an entire chapter to the Rzhev Meat-Grinder (chapter 6). Copies of all 18 chapters of that great made for TV documentary are available on YT but if you prefer better quality, higher resolution viewing free of commercials it is on many many Usenet & Torrent or Magnet listing sites. I would like to get ahold of the original Russian language series with english subtitles for the Russian narration for this because the englanders have taken liberties IMO.

So although few in the West may have heard of the meat-grinder term, that is not the case in Russia where I believe an operation to decimate the hohols' army whilst minimising the danger to as few civilians as possible was devised by Russian General staff. The idea has been to consciously make a better job of this battle than what happened at Rzhev all those years ago. They selected a town that combined being an important transport center with also being close enough to the Russian - ukie line of contact for RF forces to be able to elbow their way through ukie defences without too much loss of life.

I dunno whether the RF forces had decided they should actually capture Artyemovsk or not, for them the chief object right from the start has been to create as many ukie casualties as possible and that they have certainly done.

The only way they could be successful at achieving their target was if the ukies believed capturing Artyemovsk was the RF goal.
They most certainly seem to have been wildly successful, so successful that now if you pick up any deceitful western fishwrap the ukies now lack both the manpower and materiél to stage the promised spring offensive up until the end of winter those same dodgy fishwraps (NYT, Wapo, Grauniad plus all their hangers-on), were saying in unison that this hohol assaut was certain 'money in the jar'. What happened over winter? The Artymovsk meat-grinder, that's what.

Now the RF forces are in a bit of a quandry, the entire world believes that they were set on capturing the joint, so that if they wanna combine a PR victory with an actual real victory they must drive out the last of the hohols.
What they finally decide to do will depend on whether they believe chasing out the last ukie can be done in a reasonably short space of time, cos if it takes too long those same fishwraps will call an RF defeat, a result that can be achieved without too many Russian casualties.

ps I figure to post this here as (a) b. has a number of Ukie related posts at the top of the thread and (b) I've got no wish to climb into the cess-pool of dodgy types and war voyeurs who have infiltrated the Ukie threads.

Posted by: Debsisdead | May 8 2023 6:34 utc | 89

Canadian Deputy PM Chrystia Freeland & Crooked Hillary Clinton at Liberal Party Convention. Ukraine/Russia/China @34:30

https://www.youtube.com/live/g2BQXntfRuY

"The single strongest message of deterrence we can sent to China is a decisive Ukrainian victory that says to all the world's dictators, 'You know what, democracy is prepared to fight back and democracy can actually win..."

This is what 'friendly fascism' in American vassal Canada looks like as Nazis in Ukraine are supported by Not Sees at home. Time to wake up to the warmongering elite like Freeland/Clinton.

Posted by: John Gilberts | May 8 2023 6:38 utc | 90

@ 58 tom collins

icing is when a player shoots the puck from there own end of the rink, to the opposite end of the rink.. they call that ‘icing’.. the referee blows the whistle and a faceoff back in the zone of the player who ‘iced’ the puck, takes place….

i played a lot of hockey when i was young, but lost interest the more i got into music - 16 ish..

Posted by: james | May 8 2023 6:43 utc | 91

"So who wins?"
Posted by: West of England Andy | May 7 2023 21:48 utc | 55
The guy who doesn't spend 5 hours in front of a TV watching other people participate in sports.

"And what's the point of the "offsides" rule in futbol/soccer?"
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | May 7 2023 21:59 utc | 57 / 58
To prevent a player from 'cherry-picking' or hanging around by the opposition's goal being opportunistic.
It also serves to create a lot of no scoring.

And Tom, from my junior hockey days in Edmonton icing is, as james said, when a team shoots the puck away and past the other
teams goal line from their own defensive zone, usually to relieve pressure. If a player from that other team gets back and touches
the puck first then play is stopped and restarted again in the zone where the puck was shot from. A face-off is like a jump ball in B-ball.
If the team that shot the puck there gets to it first then play continues and they are on the offense.

In golf a driver is the one who gets to the golf cart first. The other guy is in charge of the beer cooler.

Posted by: waynorinorway | May 8 2023 7:27 utc | 92

Best wishes to all the Norwegians on this blog on this ‘frigjørings- og veterandagen’. (freedom and veterans day)

Today in Norway we are observing the 78th anniversary of the German capitulation after 5 years of brutal occupation.

More power to Russia and all of us here at MoA who would like to see Nazism removed from the human race. Now and for all time!

Thank you b!

Posted by: waynorinorway | May 8 2023 7:47 utc | 93

"Canada seeks entry into AUKUS alliance to help keep China in check"

Posted by: Jonathan W | May 8 2023 11:16 utc | 94

@lulu

The frequently overlooked fact about Tianamen Tank Guy is that everyone in the US have met or being close to the widespread militarized Police brutality knows that in the US in a similar situation, Tank Man would have been run over by the tanks with talking heads in the television basically telling he got what he asked for.
Probably tank commander would be considered to have acted in self-defense, should he have ran over a civilian

Posted by: Marcos Santos | May 8 2023 11:32 utc | 95

@ 93 waynorinorway,

kudos to you too for sharing all you do.. and the additional comments on ‘icing’ would better articulated by you too!

laeving portugal tomorrow, back to vancouver island.. it has been fun and an adventure.. i will share more in the next week or two on the moa week in review thread.. i can get rt news here in porto, but was unable elsewhere in spain and portugal.. happy trails.

Posted by: james | May 8 2023 11:41 utc | 96

would= were..

Posted by: james | May 8 2023 11:42 utc | 97

kudos for brazil president lulu speaking out against julian assange imprisonment.. kudos to the aussie pm as well…. lulu righly criticises the uk, but i will also heap a ton of disgust on the hypocrisy of the usa and sweden in this regard as well. the 3 countries, with the western msm are so full of shite, it is hard to stomach..

usa, uk and sweden - complete hypocrites.. they represent nothing about justice, beauty or peace…

Posted by: james | May 8 2023 11:51 utc | 98

Posted by: james | May 8 2023 11:51 utc | 98

Yes, the Assange imbroglio does not enhance the credibility of the Swedish Nord Stream "investigation".

Posted by: Jonathan W | May 8 2023 12:05 utc | 99

@ Marcos Santos | May 8 2023 11:32 utc | 95

One can also compare the treatment of Tiananmen Tank Guy to that of Rachel Corrie.

Posted by: malenkov | May 8 2023 12:23 utc | 100