Bakhmut Has Fallen - Artyomovsk Has Been Liberated
The so far largest battle of the 21st century ended today.
Bakhmut has fallen. Artyomovsk (the Russian/Soviet name of the city) has been liberated. This was announced today by the titular leader of the Wagner forces, Yevgeny Prigozhin, in a video posted on Telegram.
Why the Ukrainian leadership had decided to hold onto the city even months after the situation there was already in its disfavor is beyond me. The fight was decided by the numerical superiority of Russian artillery fire and the Ukraine had never a chance to top that.
The losses there for the Ukrainians amounted to 300 to 500 men per day over that last 5 months. That sums up to a total of 60,000 casualties. Ten days ago Ukrainian units, including the fascist Azov brigade, rolled up the Russian flanks north and south of Bakhmut to allow the Ukrainian troops in the city to flee west. That attack alone, only one or 2 kilometer deep, cost them some 1,600+ men and some 50+ armored vehicles.
On the Russian side the fighting in the city was largely done by Wagner troops. But they were never able to do it on their own. Russian military intelligence, artillery and logistics all played an important role in the fight.
The city has been destroyed but it will continued to exist as it is an important logistical hub with several rail and road connections running through it.
Mariupol, which fell/was liberated a year ago, is already being rebuild. In a month or two, when the frontline has moved away from Artyomovsk, rebuilding will start there too.
For a moment now the front line in Ukraine seems all around relative quiet.
It is not clear to me when or where a new operational move will start.
Posted by b on May 20, 2023 at 13:32 UTC | Permalink
next page »On to the next stop in the March to the Attrition of the Ukrainian military.
Posted by: morongobill | May 20 2023 13:36 utc | 1
Ukraine's East Command is reporting that fighting is continuing.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | May 20 2023 13:41 utc | 2
So now what? Rumors of movement against the West now that E.Ukraine is secure….and attention can focus on those that aided Ukraine. Do you have the coordinates of city of London or DC? Curious.
Posted by: Johnny B | May 20 2023 13:41 utc | 3
There are several reasons why the Nazis foolishly held onto this city:
1) Ukranian media built it up as an impregnable fortress, and so it became politically unfeasible to abandon it.
2) Zelensky is personally obsessed with it (remember the Bakhmut flag he took to the US congress)
3) Once the city is lost, it'll be one loss after another for the Ukrainians until at least the Dnieper River
4) Western backers won't fund a guerrilla/stealth war, only a "head to head" smash 'em up with Russia, so Zaluzhny's hands were tied (of course, he's dead now) in terms of strategy
Bye bye Country 404!
Posted by: Sam (in Tiraspol) | May 20 2023 13:45 utc | 4
Impossible! Bakhmut can't fall until Fox News says it has.
Posted by: Merkin Scot | May 20 2023 13:47 utc | 5
New
Putin predicted Bakhmut would fall.
Video into G7 Putin calls US and NATO leaders clowns (halfwits)
Putin “Their master plan is the destruction of Russian culture, and breaking the Russian federation up into 10 individual states controlled by USA/NATO”
Video here https://twitter.com/AbrahamStein8/status/1659918589544079365?s=20
Posted by: Dave Oneil | May 20 2023 13:48 utc | 6
Ukraine's East Command is reporting that fighting is continuing.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | May 20 2023 13:41 utc | 2
-------------
Stragglers and small unit resistance doesn't constitute "fighting", the way these things are properly considered. It's a mop-up operation.
Also Ukraine's east command frankly wont have a clear picture of where certain unit/sub-units are nor even if they still exist...
Posted by: Urban Fox | May 20 2023 13:49 utc | 7
I really do hope Prigozhin sends an autographed Russian flag to the war pigs in the US congress. They have a lot of blood on their boney little hands.
Posted by: chunga | May 20 2023 13:56 utc | 9
Re: Sam (in Tiraspol) | May 20 2023 13:45 utc
...4) Western backers won't fund a guerrilla/stealth war, only a "head to head" smash 'em up with Russia, so Zaluzhny's hands were tied (of course, he's dead now) in terms of strategy...
Since we lost the Saudis? And Israel has enough problems of its own? And Poland has not had its act together for several hundred years? And perhaps the Banderites will go after their "backers" for throwing them away like used condoms.
And a Likee-style Superlike to the next comment by Merkin Scot.
Posted by: William Haught | May 20 2023 13:58 utc | 10
Time to liberate all of East Ukraine at least to the Dnieper River maybe beyond so the Nazis and Nato can never threaten again, Odessa has to be liberated.
Posted by: Englishman | May 20 2023 13:58 utc | 11
Prigozhin thanked Surovikin, Mizintsev and Putin personally, and he gave hell to Shoigu and Gerasimov, time will tell who stays and who goes. By the way he congratulated the Ukrainian army, he called it the second best army in the world, after Wagner, of course.
Posted by: Paco | May 20 2023 14:01 utc | 12
Bakhmut fell, which was understandable after the loss of the fortified area in the west of the city, and Syrsky's plan now needs to be adjusted.The General Staff is waiting for Zelensky and the headquarters to decide further steps around Bakhmut.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine were unable to develop success on the flanks and stalled at Kleshcheevka, and in the north they were generally forced to retreat to Bogdanovka.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17877
Posted by: Down South | May 20 2023 14:01 utc | 13
Liberation of Artemovsk.
1. Zelensky's regime called Bakhmut - "fortetsey Bakhmut". Today, this "fortress has fallen" despite all the efforts of more than 80 thousand groups that operated in this direction, not counting the transferred reserves from the Kharkov, Svatovsky, Krasnolimansky, Zaporozhye directions. The enemy resisted fiercely until the very end, despite heavy losses, but could not hold the city.
2. We also suffered significant losses during the battles for the city. And PMCs "Wagner" and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Despite the joy of victory, remember today about those who fell in these months in the city and around it, so that this victory became possible.
3. Despite all the difficulties, problems, losses - the Artem offensive operation ended with our victory. The enemy lost one of the key cities in the Donbas, suffered terrible losses in manpower and equipment, was forced to adjust plans for other operations and at the same time received a powerful image blow.
4. Of course, the Wagner PMCs played a decisive role in the liberation of Artemovsk, whose stormtroopers broke through the enemy's echeloned defenses in the most difficult conditions and pressed the enemy out of the city until today. Now Wagner has 3 landmark victories - Popasnaya, Soledar and Artemovsk, not counting Svetlodarsk, Uglegorskaya TPP, etc. The case when powerful PR is supported by powerful deeds for which there is no shame.
As everyone understands, now the Wagner PMCs is No. 1 in the market of private military companies not only in our country, but also in the world. The state has a very serious tool and it would be very desirable that hardware friction or personal ambitions do not prevent its further use in the interests of achieving victory in the war. "Wagner" from May 25 go on vacation from Artemovsk - they fully deserve it.
5. According to the laws of the DPR, Bakhmut has gone down in history - since May 20, 2023, the city has already actually and legally - Artemovsk. After the war, residents will have the opportunity to return to discussing the name of the city, but for now we are celebrating the liberation of Artemovsk. No matter how banal it may sound, but the liberation of Artemovsk is the fulfillment of one of the constituent tasks of the 2nd stage of ITS associated with the liberation of the LPR and the DPR. The task is still far from being solved - there are heavy battles ahead with the NATO mercenary army, which will not give up other occupied Russian cities so easily.
6. For Russia, the Battle of Artemovo has become one of the bloodiest and longest since the Great Patriotic War. The more valuable is the victory achieved.
Happy Artemovsk Liberation Day to everyone
-CoCa
Posted by: Artemovsk | May 20 2023 14:03 utc | 14
⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦🇷🇺 On the Liberation of #Artyomovsk⚡️🔹1. Zelensky's Regime called #Bakhmut - "Fortetsey Bakhmut". Today, this "fortress has fallen" despite all the efforts of more than 80 thousand groups that operated in this direction, not counting the transferred reserves from the #Kharkov, #Svatovo, Krasny #Liman, #Zaporozhye directions. The enemy resisted fiercely until the very end, despite heavy losses, but could not hold the city.
🔹2. We also suffered significant losses during the battles for the city. And PMCs "Wagner" and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Despite the joy of victory, remember today about those who fell in these months in the city and around it, so that this victory became possible.
🔹3. Despite all the Difficulties, problems, losses - the #Artyomovsk offensive operation ended with our victory. The enemy lost one of the key cities in the #Donbass, suffered terrible losses in manpower and equipment, was forced to adjust plans for other operations and at the same time received a powerful image blow.
🔹4. Of course, the Wagner PMC played a decisive role in the liberation of #Artyomovsk, whose stormtroopers broke through the enemy's echeloned defences in the most difficult conditions and pressed the enemy out of the city until today.
Now Wagner has 3 landmark victories - #Popasna, #Soledar and #Artyomovsk, not counting #Svetlodarsk, #Uglegorskaya TPP, etc. The case when powerful PR is supported by powerful deeds for which there is no shame.
As everyone understands, now the Wagner PMC is No. 1 in the market of private military companies not only in our country, but also in the world. The state has a very serious tool and it would be very desirable that hardware friction or personal ambitions do not prevent its further use in the interests of achieving victory in the war.
"Wagner" from 25 May go on vacation from #Artyomovsk - they fully deserve it.
🔹5. According to the Laws of the DPR, #Bakhmut has gone down in history - since 20 May 2023, the city is already, in fact and legally, #Artyomovsk. After the war, residents will have the opportunity to return to discussing the name of the city, but for now we are celebrating the liberation of #Artyomovsk.
No matter how banal it may sound, but the liberation of #Artyomovsk is the fulfillment of one of the constituent tasks of the 2nd stage of the SMO associated with the liberation of the LPR and the DPR. The task is still far from being solved - there are heavy battles ahead with the #NATO mercenary army, which will not give up other occupied Russian cities so easily.
🔹6. For #Russia, the Battle of #Artyomovsk has become one of the bloodiest and longest since the Great Patriotic War. The more valuable is the victory achieved.
🏵 Happy #Artyomovsk Liberation Day to Everyone!
📜 Boris Rozhin; 20 May 2023, 16:25
https://t.me/sitreports/8955
Posted by: Down South | May 20 2023 14:04 utc | 15
The coffeeshop test. Asked by acquaintance at next table what's happening. I mentioned that Artyomovsk/Bakhmut had fallen. "Oh. You mean the Russians gave up?" General hilarity when I said just the opposite had happened. Ukraine is winning and everyone knows that. "You really are a victim of Russian propaganda."
Two emeritus professors from a top tier university in that group. They will not know tomorrow or next week that I was right. US needs to be dragged through the mud while being clubbed with 4x4s before any will admit we are not the exceptional nation. It is still not even imaginable that we might ever lose.
Posted by: oldhippie | May 20 2023 14:05 utc | 16
Posted by: oldhippie | May 20 2023 14:05 utc | 20
Wouldn't professors be more informed than a random person you'd run into in a coffee shop? And I thought hippies were supposed to be peaceful. "Dragged through the mud while being clubbed" doesn't sound all that peaceful.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | May 20 2023 14:14 utc | 18
What a nice gift to Biden /Vicky"f*ck the EU"Nuland/Blinken and all who gather presently on G7 meeting....goooooooooood timing head of Wagners musicians!!!!!!
Maybe that explains why kiddysniffer Biden finally gave the thumbs up to the F-16s.
Posted by: Due West | May 20 2023 14:21 utc | 20
Posted by: oldhippie | May 20 2023 14:05 utc | 20
I live in a quite liberal place, probably the most liberal place in the US, and man, you should see people’s faces and hear their utter disbelief when I talk about maps of the battle lines. They’ve never even thought to look for one. ‘Maps? Pssssh. MAPS?’ is about all they can muster. The MSM as far as I can tell has never shown one. They can lie about a lot of stuff, but they cannot lie about where the front is, so they just don’t talk about it.
Posted by: Caveman | May 20 2023 14:21 utc | 21
There's still a tremendous amount of military resources deployed by ukraine by bahkmut. The russian army can still easily lose it when Wagner withdraws and the russian MoD deploys its soldiers there, or at least says it has.
Nothing is over, nothing. If ukraine steps back to chasiv yar, it's been taken. If they stay right beside it, the fight is still on.
My take is that they'll withdraw though, as the positions outside the city aren't very defensible without bahkmut acting as a wall.
But, I dunno the Ukrainians are very stubborn and not exactly rational. They may be able to force a second fight if they can spook the new russian garrison.
So maybe it's rational? There's no indication the loss will unravel the line, after all new fortifications are built all the time. Chasiv yar is going to be full of concrete, tunnels, trenches and explosives.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 20 2023 14:23 utc | 23
@Due West | May 20 2023 14:21 utc | 24
Maybe that explains why kiddysniffer Biden finally gave the thumbs up to the F-16s.Show some respect for the Self-Propelled Grandfather. /s
Posted by: Norwegian | May 20 2023 14:24 utc | 24
the whole thing is very depressing, but an ending here, of sorts is to be appreciated... thanks..
Posted by: james | May 20 2023 14:25 utc | 25
Inkan: Damn, your tears are delicious.
And FWIW, professors are more knowledgeable than the average random coffee slurper—in their fields of expertise. Otherwise all bets are off. But surely you knew that, just as you knew that you can’t hurt the USA with a 2x4.
Posted by: malenkov | May 20 2023 14:26 utc | 26
...soo Elensky(KM) who proclaim he would like build "Great Israel" in the Ukraine...is in the " rock star tour" in the ....KSA...do he really think ARAB league want listen him... after endless conflict of ISRAEL with Palestinians..they still did not ACCEPT ..world has changed since February..2021......
Impossible! Bakhmut can't fall until Fox News says it has.
Posted by: Merkin Scot | May 20 2023 13:47 utc | 5
BREAKING NEWS: Fox News desk declares Bakhmut for Biden.
Just another question: What version of the F16 is being sent to Ukraine? How does Nato intend to support the F16? Is this version of the F16 less of a maintenance nightmare than the F35 (various versions)? By what means would Russia pluck this duck from the skies or hangars ?
Posted by: kupkee | May 20 2023 14:28 utc | 28
Ukraine Races to Forge New Army Ahead of Offensive
Kyiv has been holding some 20 brigades back from the fighting and training them to break through Russian lines and hold any ground taken. The hope in Kyiv is that when its offensive begins, Russian forces will be depleted from their assault on Bakhmut, while tens of thousands of Ukrainian troops will be fresh and well-equipped with Western battle tanks and other materiel.
Posted by: Simon | May 20 2023 14:41 utc | 29
#kupkee
F16 is arguably the last good fighter jet built by the USA, it is easier maintenance than f35 (not too difficult to be easier maintenance than the F35, indeed), but available planes are old (10+ years) and from different production batches, so they are not easily interchangeable or mixable in a squadron. Moreover, F16 has a VERY low jet intake, so it requires very clean runways. Ingesting pebbles or concrete chips could easily badly damage the engine compressor. If you look at Russian fighter jets, even SU57, they all have retractable protective screens on their engine air intake. As for combat capabilities, I don't know, but it is the same vintage as the early MiG29 or SU24, or other late '70 or early '80 Soviet warplanes.
Posted by: mauro | May 20 2023 14:46 utc | 30
@33 been precious few reports of western tanks in action and lots of explosions in transport nodes. It's not clear how much material is actually there to deploy.
Test:
If the summer goes by without the big bang offensive, russia actually blew it up.
So far it's not looking good for a leapord tank blitzkrieg.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 20 2023 14:46 utc | 31
One consideration though
If Russia can win a military confrontation against a coalition of countries having 50 times the Russian GDP, then it must mean that Russia is the less corrupted country of the world, with the most efficient use of the value they are producing.
Posted by: w | May 20 2023 14:51 utc | 32
For those who haven’t watch it, Prighozin speech announcing the fall of Bhakmut with English subtitles
Posted by: Down South | May 20 2023 14:51 utc | 33
@ kupkee | May 20 2023 14:28 utc | 32
I seem to recollect reading that the F-16 has or had no screens over its engine-intakes, necessitating pristine runways.
Posted by: John Kennard | May 20 2023 14:52 utc | 34
22. Wouldn't professors be more informed than a random person you'd run into in a coffee shop?
about a current war? not necessarily if they work in science, literature or one of the arts. lots of randoms in coffee shops are more informed about current events.
"dragged through the mud while being clubbed with 4x4s before any will admit we are not the exceptional nation" is an analogy with a lot of truth in it. peaceful people tend to travel in truth.
Posted by: annie | May 20 2023 14:53 utc | 35
gave hell to Shoigu and Gerasimov, time will tell who stays and who goes.
Posted by: Paco | May 20 2023 14:01 utc | 16
Next year at elections Putin may go, but the clan of fake generals will remain. Why you think Marty from America kisses general staff's butts all day long but never Putin's? The elected one only temporary. The question now is how many days Gerasimov keeps Bakhmut before it splits it with his Ukro "brothers" like Kherson and Zap.
Posted by: rk | May 20 2023 14:54 utc | 36
Ukraine's East Command is reporting that fighting is continuing.
Posted by: Inkan1969 | May 20 2023 13:41 utc | 2
Yes, as WWII
Bachmut's Azovits will still fight.
Hiding and killing civilian...
Onoda however continued his campaign, initially living in the mountains of Lubang Island in the Philippines, with three fellow soldiers (Private Yuichi Akatsu, Corporal Shōichi Shimada and Private First Class Kinshichi Kozuka).[6] During his stay, Onoda and his companions carried out guerrilla activities and engaged in several shootouts with the local police.[7] Onoda, along with his fellow soldiers, allegedly killed up to 30 Filipino civilians on Lubang over three decades -- during and after World War II
Posted by: La Bastille | May 20 2023 14:55 utc | 37
Prigozhin asks Zelensky to give Biden kiss on the forehead when he meets him, as well as to shake hands with top Ukrainian commander Zaluzhny "if he’s in good health".
Posted by: Norwegian | May 20 2023 15:03 utc | 38
Which Western news agency will report first? How long will it take? Will the British broadsheets be the most insufferable?
These and more questions will be answered without humility next week.
Posted by: too scents | May 20 2023 15:03 utc | 39
Is this the second or third time b has trumpeted the ‘fall of Bakhmut?’
Good luck when the Wagnerians rotate out and the regular green, unmotivated forces roll in.
Could this be an actual trap laid by the Ukies, unlike the hundreds of previous traps parroted confidently by the likeminded ‘forces’ of MOA that for somehow never materialized after Russians retreated.
Posted by: Don Keytale | May 20 2023 15:03 utc | 40
And 30,000 dead, really dead, Nazis. Many of them are trained in Europe as well as elite special forces who were happily murdering east Donbass civilians since 2014.
Posted by: Surferket | May 20 2023 15:04 utc | 41
The head of the Wagner paramilitary group said his forces had captured Bakhmut on Saturday, a claim the Ukrainian military denied even as they have held an ever smaller slice of the ruined city in eastern Ukraine. (New York Times)
Posted by: Jonathan W | May 20 2023 15:04 utc | 42
It is the season of fragrant abundance here, the gardens abloom with peonies, iris, lilies of the valley and more, all scents divine. I dedicate it all to those who lived and died in the fascist-provoked battle of Bakmut/Artyomovsk. So much needless horror. May the larger battle end soon with humanity victorious. I am a gardener, but not that kind of ‘gardener’ who sows noxious plants and reaps, inevitably, the whirlwind of destruction and death.
Posted by: duzan | May 20 2023 15:08 utc | 43
NYT does report it - after a number of pieces on Zelensky in Hiroshima..
Posted by: Jonathan W | May 20 2023 15:08 utc | 44
Could this be an actual trap laid by the Ukies
Posted by: Don Keytale | May 20 2023 15:03 utc | 40
---
Its comments like yours that show how deeply the West will ultimately be humiliated.
Posted by: too scents | May 20 2023 15:09 utc | 45
Mariupol - liberated by DPR militia
Artyomovsk - liberated by Wagner Foreign Legion
Posted by: Exile | May 20 2023 15:10 utc | 46
"Ukraine's East Command is reporting that fighting is continuing." [coping intensifies]
LMAO!
And the Nazi faggot trolls believe the Ukrainians shot down six of the two kinzhal missiles the Russians launched as well, and that nothing hit the Patriot batteries.
Please continue to entertain us, troll monkey
Posted by: William Gruff | May 20 2023 15:11 utc | 47
The NYT waking up?
"They come from far corners of the globe, speak different languages, span the ideological spectrum and range in age from 43 to 80. But one thing President Biden and the other leaders of the Group of 7 meeting in Japan this weekend have in common? They’re not all that popular at home."
Posted by: Jonathan W | May 20 2023 15:11 utc | 48
@43
That was from suzan, me— fat finger on the chipmunk keyboard
Posted by: suzan | May 20 2023 15:12 utc | 49
The F-16 is an affordable jet fighter, not that complex, with nice handling characteristics. Hence so many built.
It requires long, clean runways, maintenance crews, ordnance crews and NATO warfighting electronics. It also requires plenty of spare parts, ordnance and fuel.
It could patrol the skies and destroy airborne and ground targets. Dog fighting is likely not an option. The US takes a few years to get the pilots and support teams up to speed. The Ukies say they are fast learners.
US DoD is not in favor of sending F-16s because they are not likely to be the successful next 'wunderwaffe.'
Posted by: Acco Hengst | May 20 2023 15:18 utc | 50
annie | May 20 2023 14:53 utc | 35
"Wouldn't professors be more informed than a random person you'd run into in a coffee shop?
about a current war? not necessarily if they work in science, literature or one of the arts."
Certainly, and professors of international relations, political science, history etc. would likely be the least informed and most disinformed. Not only are they subject to the propaganda like any other system drone, but their careers are based on professing that same propaganda in their classes and anything they publish.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | May 20 2023 15:20 utc | 51
Congratulations to Wagner and Prighozhin!
I figured they would hold off announcing the formal victory until tomorrow, just to rub Ze’s filthy face in it at the G7.
But that’s probably just the sort of emotional thinking that led to the defeat of the UAF.
All barflies (except the sore losers exhibited in a few) - drink a toast to this victory tonight!
Posted by: Chris | May 20 2023 15:21 utc | 52
Faculty of a gov’t University ( in this case UC Davis) are NEVER going to go against the government party line.
Posted by: Exile | May 20 2023 15:25 utc | 53
Btw, it's reported now that the recent picture about Zaluzhny swimming in Cyprus by Ukraine MOD twatter account was from 2018.
If it was for the purpose of proving he's alive and hoping no one notice, then it's just more likely that he's not alive.
Posted by: unimperator | May 20 2023 15:27 utc | 54
"...I thought hippies were supposed to be peaceful...." [email protected]
I'm guessing that the 1969 in your pseudonym refers to your birthdate?
As to whether highly paid Professors at established Universities are well informed, nothing in oldhippy's post suggests otherwise. They understand on which side their bread is buttered and promote it through thick and thin. Until change is indicated.
Their business now, as neofeudal demonstrates, is to explain why it was such a cunning trick to cede Artyomovsk to its inhabitants.
Posted by: bevin | May 20 2023 15:32 utc | 55
I observed a gathering of UNH professors spending their Sunday supporting Ukraine on a street corner in Dover NH. I’m sure this s true at universities across the US. I thought this gathering of the “peace” coalition was obscenely misguided.
Anyone who reads the NYTimes becomes really adamant when you challenge their comprehension of this SMO and their hatred of Putin. This is so close minded you wouldn’t think an intelligent person could think this way!
But one of the posters here reminds me that there was a time Heidegger supported Nazi Germany.
Posted by: Geoff | May 20 2023 15:35 utc | 56
Seriously, this front-line stuff is pretty pointless with red and blue shading applied to different fields and towns depending on the source.
Ukraine as a going concern is finished and has been for some time:
https://www.intellinews.com/un-projects-ukraine-s-population-will-never-recover-from-war-254300/
The West has driven yet another country into the ground and nobody will lose their job over it.
Posted by: Tom Ernest Weiss | May 20 2023 15:35 utc | 57
Zaluzhny and Sirsky were gravely wounded in an Artillery Barrage on 10 May...
Zaluzhny lingered in coma until 16 May, when he passed.
Sirsky is horribly wounded, but alive, and some fashion of stable.
Posted by: Zaluzhny dead | May 20 2023 15:37 utc | 58
@ 43 / 49 suzan... thanks suzan.. always a pleasure to read your commentary..
Posted by: james | May 20 2023 15:40 utc | 59
@ Zaluzhny dead | May 20 2023 15:37 utc | 58
Source please.
Posted by: Norwegian | May 20 2023 15:41 utc | 60
oldhippie | May 20 2023 14:05 utc | 16
sheepskins are less than meaningless in many usa dens of so called higher education.
they are mostly parrots! good parrots get degrees and are permitted to make more good parrots.
Posted by: paddy | May 20 2023 15:41 utc | 61
F-16s @ 30
I recall that some years ago over Kashmir, Paki F-16s faced off against upgraded Mig21s of India. The Indian Migs were licensed built in India and upgraded by Israel with modern radar and AtoA missiles. The Indian jets could see and shoot down the paki jets from a great distance. It will depend on which block of F-16s are provided. I think they want to use them as standoff glide bomb droppers. Bombs with wings are the new cool thing. Dogfighting is only for the movies.
Posted by: KlutchKargo | May 20 2023 15:41 utc | 62
Does anyone suspect that Zelensky's incredible odyssey of global travel -- he's showing up in a different country every day -- is driven by the risk that Russia will take him out if he dares set foot in the Ukraine again?
Someone predicted after the Ukies' alleged May 3rd assassination attempt on Putin, that Zelensky would become a permanent exile. So far, that forecast is panning out.
Posted by: Jim H | May 20 2023 15:44 utc | 63
@ KlutchKargo | May 20 2023 15:41 utc | 62
---
F-16s in theater will make NATO AWACS legitimate targets.
Posted by: too scents | May 20 2023 15:45 utc | 64
"The city has been destroyed but it will continued to exist"
Indeed....destroyed, but saved.
Posted by: Guy Thornton | May 20 2023 15:49 utc | 65
@64 I agree. Shooting a military plane engaged in military operations by Russian borders would make an interesting test of nato article 5. My guess is if a US awac is downed not everyone is going to declare war on russia. I'm not sure even the US would as popular opinion might be divided over how the US was in that position to begin with.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 20 2023 15:54 utc | 66
Bakhmut is the old Russian name of the city going back to Ivan the IVth. There is nothing specifically Ukrainian about it.
The name was changed to Artemovsk to commemorate a Soviet Party functionary and a revolutionary with the callsign of Artyom.
What is the point of maintaining a bad Soviet legacy?
Posted by: siberiancat | May 20 2023 15:58 utc | 67
"The city has been destroyed but it will continued to exist"
Posted by: Guy Thornton | May 20 2023 15:49 utc | 65
---
The quote you are amplifying, "It became necessary to destroy the town to save it" as attributed to US Army Major Phil Cannella, was about the purposeful massacre of civilians and not destruction of property.
Posted by: too scents | May 20 2023 15:59 utc | 68
Posted by: Chris | May 20 2023 15:21 utc | 52
I'll drink to that. Best news I've heard since the death of Margaret Thatcher.
Posted by: horseguards | May 20 2023 16:00 utc | 69
And every day for the last two weeks, I saw article after article exclaiming ...
Russian Troops Fleeing Bakhmut. Wagner out of ammo and running for their lives ! ! !
Posted by: Christian Chuba | May 20 2023 16:00 utc | 70
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 20 2023 15:54 utc | 66
That is one of the key issues. If British AWACS plane flies along the border of Crimea and is shot down, why should that be anyone else's problem? They are holding 500 million in continental Europe as hostages by any potential idiotic or deliberate action. The whole euronato is just body armor for UK and US (which is the top boss).
If the bully gets punched in the face hard enough for knock-out, usually the vassals should back down too in shock and awe: "wow, better not mess with that guy who beat up the boss!". Poland might be stupid but most of the others. But if one of the vassals get punched in the face, there's a higher risk the bully can command the rest of the vassals to attack.
Posted by: unimperator | May 20 2023 16:02 utc | 71
Just another question: What version of the F16 is being sent to Ukraine? How does Nato intend to support the F16? Is this version of the F16 less of a maintenance nightmare than the F35 (various versions)? By what means would Russia pluck this duck from the skies or hangars ?
Posted by: kupkee | May 20 2023 14:28 utc | 28
the f-16s will likely be donated from eu countries like belgium and netherlands, who are in line to get (big mistake) f-35's to replace their early generation f-16's.
usaf can't keep the 900 plus f-16's they train on up to budgeted combat readiness, and would begin to tell usa oplans they cannot get f-16.
that said eu air forces do not train intensively as do the usaf, the planes do not fly as much and are not upgraded as the usaf. but eu f-16's are better than refitting f-16's from the usaf "boneyard", if very little.
the aging f-16, because f-35 is long delayed are hard to keep running spares are getting old having been refitted many times over, and the f-16 engine remains a supply chain issue because they break from age and design problems that go back to the 1970's
f-16 is slight less a maintenance nightmare than f-35, which also cannot pass key operational requirements!
f-16 is old and its supply chain has been weakened bc f-35 is coming sometime in the 2030's (should have been early 2010's)
the direct support manpower for a f-16 package to ukranazistan will be mostly 'contractors'. the supply package would be from usaf and usaf readiness will further erode.
and basing f-16 in rumania or poland would put usaf and nato aerial refueling tankers over central ukranazistan with nato e-3 to be shot out of the sky by s-300's in rf!
f-16 will be attritted unless nato wages a strong suppression of russian air defenses....... whixh would certainly mean nayto weapons on rf soil!
but selenski will get his f-16 as hard as he got his patriot batteries!
Posted by: paddy | May 20 2023 16:02 utc | 72
The whole problem now lies in the fact that there is no one to make a decision on the situation around Bakhmut and publicly announce further actions.They kept silent on Soledar for ten days, but now the attention of the whole world is drawn to Bakhmut, which means that the Office of the President will have to reflect in a short period of time.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17879
Posted by: Down South | May 20 2023 16:02 utc | 73
From Remylind23 telegram channel...
https://t.me/remylind21/2357
Chronicles of the Bakhmut Military Conglomerate in Numbers.
- The 21st Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was defeated
- 10 brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine completely lost their combat capability
- 57,000 APU men killed and over 85,000 injured
- Destroyed more than 10,000 pieces of equipment and weapons of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
- More than 50 planes and helicopters of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were shot down in the sky over Bakhmut
- Destroyed more than 6.5 thousand foreign mercenaries
- more than 100,000 units. Small arms lost APU
- more than 35000 units. Weapons were captured by PMC Wagner during the battles for Soledar and Bakhmut.
The battle for Artemovsk/Soledar cost the Ukies their third army....
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | May 20 2023 16:05 utc | 74
🇺🇦⚡️🇬🇧 Russia still lost BakhmutDon't be surprised by the headline. If you think about it, then it is. Thanks to Bakhmut, the Russians were able to:
🔹let your army "collect its thoughts" and recover after Kharkov;
🔹drive a wedge between Zelensky and Zaluzhny;
🔹 force Zelensky to make a decision - to drown the city in blood, defending in uncomfortable conditions;
🔹 force the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to transfer more and more forces to the besieged city. They plugged it with what they could, and with mobs, and with the most combat-ready units;
🔹 to force the Armed Forces of Ukraine to go on the attack at the end, at least on the flanks, in order to at least somehow offset the media damage from the loss of the city;
🔹 THE MAIN THING is to demonstrate that they can do something else militarily. Without Bakhmut, one would have to boast only of "heroic standing."Apparently, Prigogine was the first to call the operation the Bakhmut meat grinder. Later, in an attempt to reverse the narrative, the message was intercepted by the CIPSO.
Who more effectively grind each other in Bakhmut will not be known soon. One thing is clear - this operation came out TERRIBLY bloody.
Now the Office of the President will turn on all the LOMs and they will tell that it was a cunning plan and a grandiose success of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and all of Ukraine in this war, look.
The truth is that the loss of Bakhmut + the withdrawal of PMCs "for rest and retraining" will relieve tension from the entire grouping of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Donbas.
Will the Armed Forces of Ukraine make an attempt to counterattack after that - let's see, the lost Bakhmut finally gives such a chance☝️
https://t.me/ZeRada1/13802
Colleagues, since January, the Pentagon has been insisting on the withdrawal of troops from Bakhmut, and when the meat grinder began, Zaluzhny also spoke about this, but politicians laid too many symbols in this city to simply withdraw the troops.That is why the Armed Forces of Ukraine had to defend Bakhmut in a tactical environment, losing more than 100 pieces of equipment on the road of life, and as a result, we lost the city and are now trying to pick at the enemy’s defenses on the flanks. Why Syrsky did not launch a counteroffensive in February is a big question, and then the weather or climate weapons prevented him.
If the Armed Forces of Ukraine do not now achieve significant success on the flanks of Bakhmut, then the counteroffensive will fail and the question will arise about the readiness of Ukraine for the battle of the Sea of Azov, which is hundreds of times more difficult in scale.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17880
Posted by: Down South | May 20 2023 16:06 utc | 75
@71 I suspect that's why the US so cravenly backed down and stayed away after the drone was downed. They might suspect that doing that risks nato unity. If nato doesn't act as one, it's purpose will be rightly questioned.
Therfore russias move should be to double down on that pressure, if they were in it to win it.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 20 2023 16:06 utc | 76
All the equipment, weapons and nazis destroyed just to keep that "unimportant" city. Just another success of the SMO. The victories will come at a faster pace now. The battle may drag on for quite awhile but it takes time to denazify the west. Been great to watch thus far. Can't wait to see what happens next. Love watching the paid trolls rage and try to spin defeats into some sort of victory... hahahaha losers
Posted by: Watzov | May 20 2023 16:08 utc | 77
⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Battle for #Bakhmut - Situation until 17:00 on 20 May 2023⚡️🤚 After the Flight of the AFU's 60th and 93rd Mechanized Brigades, as well as the 241st Territorial Defence Brigade from the southwestern outskirts of #Bakhmut, the assault squads of the Wagner PMC completely liberated the city. By 25 May, the territories will be cleared from the remnants of Ukrainian formations.
🔹 Despite the long awaited success, the situation at the front is only approaching an active phase. The AFU lost tens of thousands of militants in the defence of #Bakhmut and #Soledar, but parts of the strategic reserve were not involved.
🔹 New Formations from the 9th and 10th Army Corps are in the rear areas and are preparing for an attack. In the radio intercepts of AFU militants, the third decade of May was noted as a possible beginning of the offensive.
🔹 In recent Weeks, artillery units have been preparing guns for intense shelling, ammunition has been brought to warehouses. And at the tactical level, combat orders have already been sent out.
📌 #Bakhmut has been liberated, and this victory will go down in history as one of the biggest battles. And it is his fall that can become a catalyst for the beginning of the long awaited AFU offensive.
Taking into account the flanking attacks of the AFU at #Bakhmut, clusters of formations on the #Zaporozhye and #SouthDonetsk directions, as well as on #Kupyansk - #Svatovso, it is there that the main enemy strikes should be expected.
https://t.me/geromanat/6345
Posted by: Down South | May 20 2023 16:08 utc | 78
Posted by: Don Keytale | May 20 2023 15:03 utc | 40
You deserve the clown shoes award for the most unintentional laugh I had all day. Just to unblock the few thousand ukro-methheads left in Bakhmut, AFU lost another 1500+ of their forces. Also, who convinced you that the regular Russian army is unmotivated - some Russophobic NATO blowjobber like Paul Massaro, perchance?
Posted by: Boo | May 20 2023 16:08 utc | 79
oldhippie | May 20 2023 14:05 utc | 16
I have learned by experience, the more western education one gets, the dumber one gets.
I have met some fuckwits in my life but the dumbest were by far the most educated.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 20 2023 16:09 utc | 80
What next? This looks a good place to grind up some Nato bones https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1V8NzjQkzMOhpuLhkktbiKgodOQ27X6IV&ll=48.135315813385006%2C37.74238811667269&z=12
Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 20 2023 16:13 utc | 81
Posted by: Guy Thornton | May 20 2023 15:49 utc | 65
If the galician Nazi turds and their anglo-saxon minders cared about the people and the cities in the former and now current and future Russian territories they would not have destroy them. But sadly, they are psychotic, just like their minders.
Posted by: Boo | May 20 2023 16:15 utc | 82
Who will be flying those F-16s? Here's a guess.
Don't be surprised if the exercise goes live.
Posted by: wagelaborer | May 20 2023 16:19 utc | 83
Any NAFO types braying about how long this took should remember the US took 20 years to lose to the Taliban.
Posted by: Sentient | May 20 2023 16:19 utc | 84
unimperator @71: "If the bully gets punched in the face hard enough for knock-out, usually the vassals should back down too in shock and awe: "wow, better not mess with that guy who beat up the boss!"."
Top survival rule when attacked by a gang is to go straight for the leader with a cripple/kill move. Bully gangs will always disintegrate when their leader is taken out. That is a little difficult in the current geopolitical circumstances, but if there were a way for Russia to take the US out of the fight first without things going nuclear, then a lot of pain could have been avoided for America's leashed gimp, the Ukraine.
But then, being a leashed gimp, perhaps the Ukraine likes pain? I'm told that behavior is quite common in Lvov... the Masochism Capital of Europe, which is saying a lot.
Posted by: William Gruff | May 20 2023 16:22 utc | 85
Prigozhin needs to shut his big mouth.
I really do hope Prigozhin sends an autographed Russian flag to the war pigs in the US congress. They have a lot of blood on their boney little hands.
Posted by: chunga | May 20 2023 13:56 utc | 9
But, I’d like to see Mercedes call out the various Schiffs, Nadlers and Sullivan Nulands encouraging this war.
Posted by: Wokechoke | May 20 2023 16:23 utc | 86
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | May 20 2023 16:05 utc | 74
That's realistic. Bakhmut meatgrinder operation really began in early November, after Kherson was abandoned. It freed up a lot of Ukrainian forces which were first supposed to be used in the offensive in Zaporozhye. Slowly but surely they ended up piling up on the Kupyansk, Avdeevka but mostly in Konstantinovka/Bakhmut instead. That's when Zelensky began feeding in hundreds of men per day. IIRC it was not only mobilized, it was a lot of quality troops from mountain assault brigades to special forces (came a bit later). It's precisely the reason why it took so long, but fulfilled its purpose, and why Ukraine did not get a chance to launch the offensive in Zaporozhye.
So it lasted a bit over 6 months with 57k killed/85k wounded makes 8,76/13k on average per month, but weighing more in the final few months.
Posted by: unimperator | May 20 2023 16:31 utc | 87
https://thedreizinreport.com/2023/05/19/all-around-the-world/
Dreizin makes the allegation that Pakistan is being paid by NATO to manufacture munitions for Ukraine.
He states that without Pakistan's help, Ukraine would be in big trouble.
This would seem to explain the ouster of Imran Khan, who favoured a more pro-China policy, and the de facto coup by the military, who's generals are traditionally more pro-US, and are presumably taking a healthy chunk of the profits from these munitions being sold to NATO.
Does anyone know of any reporting on this, other than from this blogger who never cites his sources and thought we were all gonna die of second pandemic by now? It makes sense, i just would like to corroborate the veracity of this claim.
Posted by: Et Tu | May 20 2023 16:32 utc | 88
Russian Troops Fleeing Bakhmut. Wagner out of ammo and running for their lives ! ! !
Posted by: Christian Chuba | May 20 2023 16:00 utc | 70
Tells a lot about the capabilities of the Ukrainian army and their NATO puppet masters if they loose Bakmuth to a ragtag bunch of Ex-prisoners with no weapons or ammo ....
Posted by: Marvin | May 20 2023 16:34 utc | 89
Actually , the best deal that could happen is that the Ukie officers { those that are left} and the Russian officers { those that are left } , make a deal to kick the Nazis and the Nato f... out of most of Ukraine and let things go back- the way things were way before 2014. Thais was the conversation in Mike's Bar on the Black sea today.
Posted by: gmc | May 20 2023 16:45 utc | 91
Good luck when the Wagnerians rotate out and the regular green, unmotivated forces roll in.
Could this be an actual trap laid by the Ukies, unlike the hundreds of previous traps parroted confidently by the likeminded ‘forces’ of MOA that for somehow never materialized after Russians retreated.
Posted by: Don Keytale | May 20 2023 15:03 utc | 40
###################
If you think the Russian regular forces are unmotivated ...
If the Ukrainians have been so successful for their traps, how come they continue to hemmorhage territory and men, while having the support of the entire West?
What other country in the world would be so unsuccessful with the support of the US, EU, Japan, Australia, the global media complex?
Remember, "Russia is just a gas station with nukes", and thus far, they haven't deployed a single nuke.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 20 2023 16:46 utc | 92
Has anyone else noticed that b went from being a rather articulate native English speaker to now writing like a tongue-tied Lithuanian? And schoolboy errors abound. Clearly under new management for a while now.
Posted by: Anon | May 20 2023 16:47 utc | 93
OT back to yesterday's No. 5 and associated comments Bamford vs. Hersh on Nordstream pipelines:
Here's Bamford's article:
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/nord-stream-pipeline-explosions/
This author's piece speculates along the lines of the yacht theory while saying Hersh's account is "unsourced."
Incorrect. There is a difference between NOT NAMING a xource and NOT sourced. Bamford's is not sourced and entirely speculative.
Hersh's account is meticulously detailed including the problem that the pipelines couldn't be immediately blown up after explosives were planted so a special detonation buoy had to be invented. Further, Hersh has a long record of plausibility due to his inside connections and sources. Bamford = more propaganda.
Posted by: botete | May 20 2023 16:48 utc | 94
I have a good opinion of the F16. I think it is a fine multipurpose fighter. But sending it into Ukraine right now strikes me as kind of stupid. The problem is that Russia has a high quality air defense and the F16 isn't designed to function in that kind of environment. And along with a lot of our hardware, it is designed with the expectation that it would be used from a secure base, which of course is lacking in Ukraine.
Posted by: Jmaas | May 20 2023 16:48 utc | 95
The Wagner group has erroneously claimed success before.
Posted by: Don Bacon | May 20 2023 16:48 utc | 96
Congratulations to Wagner and Prighozhin!
I figured they would hold off announcing the formal victory until tomorrow, just to rub Ze’s filthy face in it at the G7.
But that’s probably just the sort of emotional thinking that led to the defeat of the UAF.
All barflies (except the sore losers exhibited in a few) - drink a toast to this victory tonight!
Posted by: Chris | May 20 2023 15:21 utc | 52
###################
I was thinking about this. You don't want to time the victory announcement with the start of the G7. You want to demoralize the start of the G7 by announcing it a day earlier. It's brilliant timing, in my opinion. Timing can also be a weapon when used effectively.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | May 20 2023 16:49 utc | 97
"So now what? Rumors of movement against the West now that E.Ukraine is secure"
East Ukraine is far from secure or even liberated. The next places to free up are Slavyansk and Kramatorsk and they will also be heavily dup in.
Posted by: Bluedog57 | May 20 2023 16:52 utc | 98
F16s, Iron Dome, frozen conflict, and massing troops in Finland as part of new NATO “war-fighting” doctrine. All of this announced in just the past few days. A response to Bakhmut and the Patriot debacle? Also hopes Brazil and India will “crack” after unwanted face-to-face meetings with Zelensky. A suitable political compromise was on the table, and even agreed in two cases, in 2014, 2016, and late 2021. Nationalist factions in Ukraine, with complicity of western backers, refused and the future prospects continue to get narrower, exceedingly expensive, and essentially unresolved. That’s outstanding leadership.
Posted by: jayc | May 20 2023 16:56 utc | 99
"But the elephant in the room will be growing doubts even among the most ardent of Kiev's supporters of whether Ukraine can in fact 'win'... no matter how much military equipment they are given by Western backers."
--Zero Hedge
LMAO... as soon as weapons and ammo arrive in Ukieland, the Ruskies blow it up shaking the Richter scale in the process... Meanwhile, NATO Windmill Economies completely running out of inventory. Going forward replacement stock can only trickle in. This show is over. Once the Russian General staff bore down and the Kremlin realized they were at war with all 31 NATO states, they poured it on. Now they have a winning formula. The catastrophic loss of life deeply saddens me; these aren't sports teams battling on the pitch.
Posted by: posa | May 20 2023 17:00 utc | 100
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