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April 17, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-93
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
It seems they are trying to ensure that Russia does not over-look any of the valuable data contained in the “leak”.
Posted by: jared | Apr 17 2023 17:14 utc | 1 Minimum, incomplete, low-ball KIA(only)(FEBA only) 490+ … Translated:
Raw video Posted by: Dave Oneil | Apr 17 2023 17:18 utc | 3 Interesting analysis of the Pentagon leak. This guy says the leak, and the explanation for it are most likely legit. Posted by: Иван Иванович | Apr 17 2023 17:34 utc | 4 i think the leaks are just a sign of a faction dispute in Washington. we will learn more sooner or later, but they won’t make any difference on the ground. Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 17 2023 17:43 utc | 5 @ Иван Иванович | Apr 17 2023 17:34 utc | 4 Posted by: Иван Иванович | Apr 17 2023 17:34 utc | 4 Posted by: West of England Andy | Apr 17 2023 17:50 utc | 7 More Unanswered Red Flags Regarding Jack Texeira Sonar21, Larry Johnson, April162023
Good evening Barflies, Posted by: Tak-Tik | Apr 17 2023 18:08 utc | 9 It occurs to me that if young Jack wants to really stir things up (and maybe get a reduced sentence) he will identify whoever gave him the documents. Posted by: dh | Apr 17 2023 18:10 utc | 10 Now, it becomes unnecessary read about how Empires declined and fell in the past. You can watch the American Empire collapse in real time. Posted by: kupkee | Apr 17 2023 18:11 utc | 11 “At Ugledar, the Khokhlyas suddenly decided to rehearse a counterattack. Posted by: unimperator | Apr 17 2023 18:14 utc | 12 Doc Leaker’s job – the reality. Leak remains Highly Suspicious. Judge Napolitano – Judging Freedom Youtube 1m09s Is Biden being Misinformed on Ukraine & China? – Ray McGovern Judge Napolitano – Judging Freedom, 4hrs ago, Youtube 22m04s @ 4 Иванович Posted by: NJH | Apr 17 2023 18:38 utc | 15 Von RT:”Liveticker Ukraine-Krieg: Russische Soldaten befreien Artjomowsk – psychologischer Schlag für Kiew”. Posted by: Diego | Apr 17 2023 18:42 utc | 16
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17325 Posted by: Down South | Apr 17 2023 18:56 utc | 17 Just in case anyone was wondering why the ex-apparatchik/gangsters in Ukraine suddenly became born again Nazis, it was because fascisy indoctrination is cheaper than paying for schools, hospitals, wages, vacations etc- all that good money could be used to buy yachts or real estate in Chelsea or Miami. Posted by: bevin | Apr 17 2023 18:57 utc | 18
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17326 Posted by: Down South | Apr 17 2023 18:58 utc | 19 NJH, Posted by: Иван Иванович | Apr 17 2023 18:58 utc | 20 #14 Ray McGovern on Napolitano show – As usual, Ray has James W. Douglass’ book on Kennedy over his left shoulder. Douglass’ book “Lightning East to West” was very formative to me in the 1980’s and I always looked forward to every issue of Ground Zero. However Douglass’ book on Kennedy just devastated me when I read it. Glad I did. The book is impeccably researched. My viewpoints on the nature and length of time, etc. of state conspiracies were never the same after reading. Posted by: paxmark1 | Apr 17 2023 19:02 utc | 21
Posted by: Down South | Apr 17 2023 19:04 utc | 22 Posted by: unimperator | Apr 17 2023 18:14 utc | 12 Posted by: Milites | Apr 17 2023 19:18 utc | 23 It occurs to me that if young Jack wants to really stir things up (and maybe get a reduced sentence) he will identify whoever gave him the documents. Posted by: Fred777 | Apr 17 2023 19:26 utc | 24 From a tweet Posted by: oldrepublic | Apr 17 2023 19:26 utc | 25 @ Иван Иванович | Apr 17 2023 18:58 utc | 20 “If you can’t grope and sniff young girls, you must lick the world.” Joe Tzu Posted by: Immaculate deception | Apr 17 2023 19:42 utc | 27 Outraged, Posted by: Иван Иванович | Apr 17 2023 19:43 utc | 28 Fred777 @ 24 “It could get him a reduced sentence, could also get him killed.” Posted by: dh | Apr 17 2023 19:46 utc | 29 Pictures:
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/42322 Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 17 2023 19:48 utc | 30 Is it real, fake or intentional disinfo from wagner? Posted by: Tak-Tik | Apr 17 2023 19:52 utc | 31 Outraged Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 17 2023 19:56 utc | 32 “Is it real, fake or intentional disinfo from wagner? Posted by: Comandante | Apr 17 2023 20:08 utc | 33 Tak-Tik | Apr 17 2023 19:52 utc | 31 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 17 2023 20:13 utc | 34 Martyanov in his video stated that the Kinzhal bunker strike in the reserve command bunker of the Transcarpathian military district, used by Nato generals and colonels is big news in the Russian media. The Kinzhals actually penetrated through a weak spot in the ventilation system of the bunker, 2 of them reached a depth of 60 meters, perhaps there were more than two in the same spot. Posted by: unimperator | Apr 17 2023 20:22 utc | 35
That was on the 16th and there must be something from the 25th but have not found it. That post shows a photo of a meeting with a number of flags including the Ukraine flag. Have been through all the posts on the 15th and its not there so the must have removed it. Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 17 2023 20:23 utc | 36
That Rus politician can only do that because there is freedom of speech in Russia. Had that been done by some Ukrop Rada deputy, he would get killed on the spot. Posted by: Nervous German | Apr 17 2023 20:23 utc | 37 Martyanov in today’s video said that the news of the bunker strike on the reserve command post of the Transcarpathian military district, used by Nato generals and colonels, was everywhere on the Russian media. Apparently 2 of the Kinzhals penetrated in the weak spot of the bunker, the ventilation system managing to reach 60 meters. Perhaps there were more than two aimed at it. Posted by: unimperator | Apr 17 2023 20:25 utc | 38 Nervous German | Apr 17 2023 20:23 utc | 36 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 17 2023 20:27 utc | 39 At least seven US military personnel were injured in an accident involving military vehicles on the A6 autobahn in Germany. Posted by: unimperator | Apr 17 2023 20:29 utc | 40 The “leak” is meant to pre-lube the slide out of Ukraine. Clearly the US/West isn’t going to get anywhere near something resembling a “victory,” in which case it needs to start paving the path out with excuses. Biden will take the fall: he’ll hold the bag of crap as he exits his presidency (and won’t run again). The Deep State is concerned about China and needs to push all its efforts in that direction: sure, Russia is part of the equation, but the attack via Ukraine is now, clearly, a losing proposition. Posted by: Seer | Apr 17 2023 20:32 utc | 41 Leopard 2A4 had its turret blown off before the battles Posted by: Passerby | Apr 17 2023 20:33 utc | 42 Here is the clarification from Prigoshin re end of the SMO. As far as I can parse this, I think he meant defining the end result of the SMO, not ending the SMO per se.
From: https://t.me/concordgroup_official/776 Posted by: Zet | Apr 17 2023 20:36 utc | 43 @ Peter AU1 | Apr 17 2023 19:56 utc | 32
That is all it is. The AFU cupboard is bare, even IF it launches. AFU cannot defeat RF. Regardless, the outcome of the conflict was determined long ago. Once the surge munitions for limited Western Arty/MBRLS are expended and the equivalent combat power of three tank/mech brigades are destroyed, there is no more materiel coming. Does not exist. Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 17 2023 19:48 utc | 30 Posted by: unimperator | Apr 17 2023 20:46 utc | 45 @ Peter AU1 | Apr 17 2023 20:13 utc | 34 Posted by: whirlX | Apr 17 2023 20:48 utc | 46 Is anyone else dismayed by the decline of https://strategypage.com/default.aspx ? When I read it, I’m in an alternate reality, where NATO is crushing Russia, and Russia is on the brink of social collapse. And yet, its failure to predict with any accuracy what has happened in Ukraine damns its analysis as crap. Whenever they talk about anything other than hardware, they quickly lose the melody. They’re living in an opposite reality. But if I apply the low standards most Americans use when consuming info, I could see how it persuades low-effort nationalist types. Quote. “British intelligence suggested creating 5 real counteroffensive plans so that no one could get information about the main attack and only at the time of implementation would a real one be presented.” Posted by: Sam | Apr 17 2023 20:58 utc | 48 Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 17 2023 19:48 utc | 30 Posted by: _unimperator_ | Apr 17 2023 20:58 utc | 49 “What he meant was more in the direction ‘or we are doing it right or we do not do it at all’. Posted by: Comandante | Apr 17 2023 21:00 utc | 50 whirlX | Apr 17 2023 20:48 utc | 42 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 17 2023 21:00 utc | 51 Posted by: Comandante | Apr 17 2023 20:08 utc | 33 Posted by: Mike R | Apr 17 2023 21:00 utc | 52 the First thing ( in fact the only thing) Russia must do is to kill as many English soldiers (and not only their hired mercenaries ), English spies masquerading as British and BBC journalists and mercenaries as possible as in shortest time. That will settle the problem of the world being destabilized by the England pirate island and there will be no more plotting for wars by English pirates. But Russia does opposite! It let English mercenaries escape safely from donesk (Debeltsov enckave) in Feb 2015! Posted by: Sam | Apr 17 2023 21:00 utc | 53 Our OP source said that MI6 is proposing to the General Staff that they replicate the experience of the “Operation Neptune” landing in Normandy, where the main effect was achieved through surprise and a massive strike in bad weather. Posted by: kupkee | Apr 17 2023 21:01 utc | 54 Posted by: paxmark1 | Apr 17 2023 19:02 utc | 21 Posted by: jonku | Apr 17 2023 21:02 utc | 55 Posted by: _unimperator_ | Apr 17 2023 20:58 utc | 45 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 17 2023 21:05 utc | 56 Shouldn’t the state-organized pogroms aimed at eliminating the Russian Orthodox Church be declared Cultural Genocide? At minimum the actions confirm Russia’s R2P reasoning and Article 51 use. The following is from Escobar’s Telegram:
Links to source at above link. Posted by: Down South | Apr 17 2023 18:56 utc | 17 Posted by: Milites | Apr 17 2023 21:17 utc | 59 Comandante | Apr 17 2023 21:00 utc | 46 Posted by: whirlX | Apr 17 2023 21:18 utc | 60 A big thank you to Outraged, whose ongoing work of boiling down the battlefield reports is very sobering, and thus immensely helpful to the discussion. Posted by: persiflo | Apr 17 2023 21:19 utc | 61 Russian intelligence gathering capabilities are as good as NATOs….not one company sized formation can concentrate without satellite surveillance observing and tagging it… Russia knows exactly where and when any counter offensive is stacking…. This leak was for Western public consumption to initiate a change in foreign policy. As noted elsewhere….the leak only covered Ukraine….less than half of the original documents was leaked…no reference to China …Iran …. Sudan etc..the pretender in office is fighting an undeclared war without congressional approval….the information released to the public has been lies and the Media is an arm of military industrial complex….all this on the run up to the U.S elections Posted by: Joe | Apr 17 2023 21:22 utc | 62 Posted by: Outraged | Apr 17 2023 18:21 utc | 14 Posted by: pretzelattack | Apr 17 2023 21:33 utc | 63 Posted by: Sam | Apr 17 2023 20:58 utc | 44 Posted by: Milites | Apr 17 2023 21:34 utc | 64 @commandante-33/Peterr AU1-34-35-37/nervous german-36/Zet-40/etc Posted by: Tak-Tik | Apr 17 2023 21:39 utc | 65 whirlX | Apr 17 2023 21:18 utc | 56 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 17 2023 21:49 utc | 66 A comment on the Russian anti ship missiles that feature a final vertical attack, be they cruise or pseudo ballistic. Most of the discussion I have read is that their objective is to punch right through the ship, being fused to explode underneath, rather than inside the ship. The objective being to use the water pressure bubble created by the explosion to break the spine of the ship, replicating the final moments of a modern heavy torpedo. Posted by: JohninMK | Apr 17 2023 21:50 utc | 67 https://t.me/llordofwar/121428
https://t.me/llordofwar/121474
Posted by: anon2020 | Apr 17 2023 21:53 utc | 68 Czechs steal Moroccan tanks, break law twice to aid Nazis yet again, “Moscow denounces ‘egregious’ Czech confiscation of Morocco’s tanks for transfer to Ukraine”:
Hopefully, the Czech people will oust their Eurofascists themselves. Docs Given to Leaker. Security Clearance does NOT equal Access Judge Napolitano – Judging Freedom, 1hr ago, Youtube 2m05s Tak-Tik | Apr 17 2023 21:39 utc | 61 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 17 2023 22:07 utc | 71 Posted by: Aaron Lee | Apr 17 2023 20:57 utc | 43
It’s not just the US government, the tail wagging the dog. It’s about the corporatization of the country, with business corporations using all the tricks of media saturation, bullshit narratives, financial bullying, celebrity cultism, to turn most Americans into corpowhore zombies. The US goverment is just one more entity using corporate techniques to control an all too compliant population. After all, the US doesn’t have much of a culture other than corporate capitalism at this point (it never had much of an identity to begin with, or a contrived counterfeit one), and with government officials functioning as errand boys for the corporate world, there hasn’t been much resistance to the takeover. At this point most Americans are thoroughly brainwashed, people obsessed with facebook, sports, and celebrity. If the media they watch says ‘Ukraine good, Russia bad’ that’s good enough for them. I guess what I’m saying is that as a country, we are totally in the crapper and not coming out. I remember the ’60’s and ’70’s. I actually had hopes that we would make a turn for the better back then. Chalk it up to youth. Posted by: Mike R | Apr 17 2023 22:19 utc | 72 Outraged | Apr 17 2023 22:04 utc | 66 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 17 2023 22:28 utc | 73 Jack has not been charged with Theft. This means he did not steal or « smuggle out » the docs. He either found then (where?) or they were given to him (by who?) Posted by: Adam Troy | Apr 17 2023 22:29 utc | 74 First, a comment on Prigozhin, once again: He DOES NOT KNOW what the ultimate objectives of the SMO are. Period. He is going off the speeches of Putin, like so many other people do, which are not operational orders from the President of the Russian Federation, let alone operational plans of the Russian General Staff, nor are they classified political decision documents submitted to the other authorizing bodies of the Russian Federation.
In short, it appears the FBI wants to “upgrade” his skills to a higher level computer security specialist in order to make it more plausible that he was the leaker, rather than being a “hardware monkey” who would mostly have been swapping out hardware like network routers, printers, PCs and the like.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 17 2023 22:41 utc | 75 The “Patsy” is the rule. Not the exception. There’s always got to be a patsy. Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Apr 17 2023 22:46 utc | 77 Karl Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 17 2023 22:46 utc | 78 Fred777@24. FWIW I have a growing sense of unease about what is going to happen to Texeira. Does he have a lawyer? Where is he? Is he in contact with family? WaPo & NYT have already severely demonised him ensuring he will not get a fair ‘Trial’. In fact, they have de facto found him guilty. Posted by: Jo Dominich | Apr 17 2023 23:07 utc | 79 First, a comment on Prigozhin, once again: He DOES NOT KNOW what the ultimate objectives of the SMO are. Period. He is going off the speeches of Putin, like so many other people do. Posted by: K | Apr 17 2023 23:21 utc | 80 @ K | Apr 17 2023 23:21 utc | 76 Posted by: james | Apr 17 2023 23:27 utc | 81 Emil Cosman talks a bit about Prigozhin’s relations with the Russian military here. He puts it quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ-q0hq8qxo Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 17 2023 23:27 utc | 82 Posted by: K | Apr 17 2023 23:21 utc | 76 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 17 2023 23:35 utc | 83 @ Posted by: Jo Dominich | Apr 17 2023 23:07 utc | 75 Posted by: DunGroanin | Apr 17 2023 23:35 utc | 84 my own take is prigozhin is obfuscating as much as anything else.. there is no way putin or prigozhin are going to tip their hand.. that is the exact opposite of what great warriors do.. so whether one or the other is saying anything, or leaving anything out – anyone thinking they know what they are saying, are living in a hall of mirrors but oblivious to it too. Posted by: K | Apr 17 2023 23:41 utc | 85
I can’t help but feel that the whole thing is a fake to save face in public – The full ‘Lee Harvey Oswald’ backstory, the method means and motive for the leak. Posted by: Rattus | Apr 17 2023 23:41 utc | 86 Doc Leaker: More Red Flags – Larry Johnson Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 17 2023 23:43 utc | 87 @JohninMK | Apr 17 2023 21:50 utc | 63 Posted by: barstool | Apr 17 2023 23:56 utc | 88 Peter AU1 @74– as I didnt say much in the last days and well me drunk Posted by: Macpott | Apr 18 2023 0:06 utc | 90
Just out of curiosity, has a nuclear-powered surface vessel of any navy suffered a critical reactor failure? Posted by: Rattus | Apr 18 2023 0:14 utc | 91 Prigozhin said that they should end the SMO. Possibly he means Duma declaring war and ending this? He does troll the West, who have the best brains and Intel in the whole universe. Just spitballing here. Posted by: Immaculate deception | Apr 18 2023 0:18 utc | 92 @karlof1 | Apr 17 2023 23:57 utc | 85 and other posts. Posted by: Ново З | Apr 18 2023 0:19 utc | 93 @ Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 17 2023 22:41 utc | 71 Posted by: BroncoBilly | Apr 18 2023 0:25 utc | 94 Leaker(🤪) Timeline Posted by: Melaleuca | Apr 18 2023 0:33 utc | 95 RSH 2023 23:43 utc | 83 Posted by: dh | Apr 18 2023 0:36 utc | 96 There a coming more leaks. Are the USA now leaking it self out of the spetacle. One leak a day so that everybody can see that the UKR have deceived/ lied to the USA? Posted by: Paul from Norway | Apr 18 2023 0:44 utc | 97 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMYasP2OSKk Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 18 2023 0:47 utc | 98 Posted by: Melaleuca | Apr 18 2023 0:33 utc | 91
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 18 2023 0:48 utc | 99 RSH@79….’no experience’, and Zielinski does? Night and day difference, good managers, manage, delegate and listen. Unless Wagner is staffed by buss boys and dish washers……give credit, where credit is do. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Apr 18 2023 0:49 utc | 100 |
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