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April 14, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-90
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
https://twitter.com/MedvedevRussiaE/status/1646842419378257922
Do it already… Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 14 2023 14:58 utc | 1 Minimum, incomplete, low-ball KIA(only)(FEBA only) 555+ … Translated:
Meanwhile:
Sadly, this was long predicted – the Kremlin faced the choice of either fighting the war seriously, or eventually having to silence the internal critics, and if this is true, the latter is now becoming a reality (there was already at least one such recent case, but against a low-profile figure). Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 14 2023 15:10 utc | 3 Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 14 2023 14:58 utc | 1 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Apr 14 2023 15:20 utc | 4 Every time they interfere in the electoral process they have to, by necessity, escalate their surveillance capabilities. This is I think partly motivated by the loss of the House last year, which. I think came as a shock, though they quickly pivoted and saw the opportunity for the Republicans to become the agents of Biden’s demise. To guarantee the 2024 result is favourable, it will take more than ‘fortifying’ the result, Zuckerbucks, a handy pandemic and willing social-media cooperation with friendly AI algorithms. 2024 is where the bloom is truly off the ruse; a failed intervention in Ukraine, a weaker world role, an economy staggering under an intellectually incoherent, but highly ideological, economic policy and migrations from Democrat bastion cities will require greater control mechanisms that must be put in place now. Posted by: Milites | Apr 14 2023 15:40 utc | 5 How such a poor country can sustain such extravagance is unclear………. Posted by: jpc | Apr 14 2023 15:42 utc | 6 So much TrollTeam effort has been gone into the “Russia has to sell it’s oil cheap” mime, now ZH runs this headline “Russian Oil Now Trades Consistently Above $60: Will The West Pretend Its Sanctions Are Still In Force” Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Apr 14 2023 16:10 utc | 7 2 Questions Barflies: Posted by: Exile | Apr 14 2023 16:12 utc | 8 how do you know when Russia is serious about the smo? Posted by: paddy | Apr 14 2023 16:22 utc | 9 So it seems that the RF now has complete air supremacy over the front lines in eastern Ukraine. I’m basing this off of reports from Military summary, DPA and other independent sources that are increasingly saying that it’s “bombs away” on the UAF in Zaporizhza, Donetsk and closer in rear supply areas. Posted by: Chris | Apr 14 2023 16:24 utc | 10 AD continues to be abused by Lancet-3 Posted by: unimperator | Apr 14 2023 16:31 utc | 11 I was listening to Mr Martynov this morning. He reckoned that US subs were still the bees knees. You’d have to respect his opinion, him being an expert and all, but I couldn’t help wondering when was the last time they were tested out properly. After all, Javelins, and HIMARS and M777s and all were also supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread and they all proved to have a glass jaw – to mix metaphors, I guess. It would of course be wise to assume that they are as wonderful as claimed and not rush into fighting them but still . . .? Then there is also the case that a competent person using a dated instrument can be expected to deliver better results than a fool with top of the range equipment and if the US leadership is like that chap Milley can we really expect submarine captains to be better? It’s the Milleys of the world that are appointing them after all. Posted by: Guy L’Estrange | Apr 14 2023 16:32 utc | 12 Jim Kavanaugh’s post of Zombie War: Plan B for Ukraine at the blog The Polemicist was an interesting analysis of how the US will seek to flip NATO’s defeat in Ukraine into a prolonged ceasefire. Read via yesterday’s CounterPunch. Posted by: Wilikins | Apr 14 2023 16:42 utc | 13 If true, about gaining air supremacy then Tu22 M3M’s loaded with glide bombs, conducting precision arc light strikes against troop concentrations and rear support areas might qualify for the soubriquet ‘game-changer’. CAS would still be restricted to pitch-up attacks by the threat of the MANPDS still proliferating the battle space, though all weather platforms would wreak havoc. Posted by: Milites | Apr 14 2023 16:50 utc | 14 These guys move fast! So dump the failed Ukraine policy on the old man and get him out quick and quiet otherwise more like this to follow. Posted by: Milites | Apr 14 2023 16:56 utc | 15 2 Questions Barflies: Posted by: JB | Apr 14 2023 17:12 utc | 16
Excellent post Milites and very scary. Posted by: Trimalchio | Apr 14 2023 17:25 utc | 17 Zombie War: Plan B Posted by: rk | Apr 14 2023 17:29 utc | 18 2 Questions Barflies: Posted by: Phariah | Apr 14 2023 17:39 utc | 19 Posted by: Guy L’Estrange | Apr 14 2023 16:32 utc | 12 Posted by: anon2020 | Apr 14 2023 17:43 utc | 20 The timing of the collapse of Ukraine’s positions will be a function of how many glide bombs Russia can deliver per day. A TU22 can carry ten of the huge 1,500 kg bombs. Nothing is going to withstand such a strike. Strong points like Ugledar will simply disappear. Posted by: HH | Apr 14 2023 17:45 utc | 21 Shadowbanned @3 Posted by: Paul Damascene | Apr 14 2023 18:11 utc | 22 @7 it’s still running at a massive discount which is the point to withhold money from russia. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Apr 14 2023 18:18 utc | 23 Baerbock carries water for Blinken in China: Posted by: Bemildred | Apr 14 2023 18:23 utc | 24 Posted by: HH | Apr 14 2023 17:45 utc | 21 about the glide bombs: Posted by: Jx | Apr 14 2023 18:25 utc | 25 @21 not true. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Apr 14 2023 18:25 utc | 26 @Posted by: anon2020 #20 Posted by: Golddiggr | Apr 14 2023 18:31 utc | 27 Thank you Barflies for your thoughtful answers – follow up question: Posted by: Exile | Apr 14 2023 18:31 utc | 28 Re: the comments about oil prices – I’ve posted this link in an earlier thread but, for those who missed it, here it is again: https://oilprice.com/oil-price-charts/ Posted by: West of England Andy | Apr 14 2023 18:31 utc | 29 There is more drumming and news around that the rumor of Zelensky selling off western Ukraine to the Poles is actually real. It seems to me as preparation for the “Anschluss”, and it’s yet another Ukro scheme to join Nato/EU and expand the war. I think if/when that happens, Romania and Hungary will grab parts too. Posted by: unimperator | Apr 14 2023 19:02 utc | 30 @29, seems like a tough sell. You know everyone fights with no limits to keep territory from Russia, but its most loyal heartlands can be given away for a promise? It seems to neither mesh with ukraine’s hyper nationalist ideology or the fight for every inch military approach. Posted by: neofeudalfuture | Apr 14 2023 19:13 utc | 31 @25 Posted by: Chris | Apr 14 2023 19:14 utc | 32 Posted by: unimperator | Apr 14 2023 19:02 utc | 29 Posted by: Seer | Apr 14 2023 19:24 utc | 33 @31 they tried that in WW1 with mass artillery barrages, millions and millions of shells. Needless to say a lot of soliders survived even days of bombardment to drown lots of attacks in blood. I know these are big bombs, but they saturated the lines in WW1 so everyone was close to blast waves. Posted by: neofeudalfuture | Apr 14 2023 19:27 utc | 34 Posted by: neofeudalfuture | Apr 14 2023 19:13 utc | 30 Posted by: unimperator | Apr 14 2023 19:27 utc | 35 https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/55213 Posted by: anon2020 | Apr 14 2023 19:28 utc | 36 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Apr 14 2023 15:20 utc | 4:
Those are not really pre-requisites for European politicians to babble and prostitute themselves to the whims of the Empire. There are loads and loads of these idiots all over Europe–Von der Leyen; Stoltenberg; Baerbock; Duda; the clowns in Baltic/Finland/Swedes/Norway/Belgium/UK/da da da…–you name them, they are all the same. They perceive that babbling in hyperbole against widely perceived villains such as Putin/Xi/Kim/Raisi/et al win them political points, boost their political careers, and/or just enhance their own wet dreams. Many of them, no , I should say most of them, may actually believe in what they spewed because they are that stupid and ill informed. Posted by: Oriental Voice | Apr 14 2023 19:29 utc | 38 From talking to some submariners and vague research sometime ago, I think the advantage US boats have is in the signal processing suits for their passive systems. Russian boats are hydrodynamically designed to emulate marine mammals, notably dolphins, so have an excellent turn of speed and diving depths, and double hulls make them more robust than their Western counterparts. Weapons suits are similar, with Russians using simple engineering workarounds v’s high tech solutions, and active sonars give the edge to Russia IIRC, but passive detection is the West’s ace and gives their boats a distinct edge. Noise insulation and generation used to be a Western advantage, with boats noticeably quieter but I think the gap has narrowed or even disappeared. In the first Cold War the West’s crews were superior, due to the professional v’s conscript approach, but now? Posted by: Milites | Apr 14 2023 19:30 utc | 39 @34 unimperator Posted by: neofeudalfuture | Apr 14 2023 19:40 utc | 40 Posted by: unimperator | Apr 14 2023 19:02 utc | 29 Posted by: Babel-17 | Apr 14 2023 19:49 utc | 41 Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Apr 14 2023 18:25 utc | 25 Posted by: Milites | Apr 14 2023 19:50 utc | 42 Personally I doubt Germany will exist within its current borders by 2030 Posted by: Passerby | Apr 14 2023 19:51 utc | 43 Military summary analysis today: Posted by: unimperator | Apr 14 2023 19:53 utc | 44 @38 Milites. Posted by: Tuna | Apr 14 2023 20:09 utc | 45 Posted by: anon2020 | Apr 14 2023 19:28 utc | 35 Posted by: Milites | Apr 14 2023 20:13 utc | 46 Former US Treasury Secretary Larry Summers – “There’s a growing acceptance of fragmentation, and – maybe even more troubling – I think there’s a growing sense that ours may not be the best fragment to be associated with,” Summers said on Friday in a Bloomberg News interview. Posted by: Jonathan | Apr 14 2023 20:14 utc | 47 1) How long will the Ukrainian Civil War last ? @ Exile | Apr 14 2023 18:31 utc | 27 Posted by: whirlX | Apr 14 2023 20:48 utc | 49 Old school Beltway intel source, retired: Controlled leak. Internal. Way, way up – beyond the CIA. 21-year old gamer is a fall guy. The circus is in town – actually a show that never ends. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Apr 14 2023 20:49 utc | 50 Regarding passive sub detection strategies: Posted by: Seer | Apr 14 2023 20:56 utc | 51 @33 There is no comparison between the artillery shells of WWI and huge aerial bombs like the Russian FABs. The apt comparison is the crushing of German forces on the western front by aerial bombardment in WWII and the defeat of the Bulge offensive by Allied airpower. In order to prepare and execute an offensive, the Ukrainians have to mass their forces, and this makes them a target for airstrikes. With the Ukrainian AD umbrella gone, they will be destroyed from above. Conversely, the Russians will advance with classic combined arms tactics, relying on potent airstrikes to clear the way. Posted by: HH | Apr 14 2023 21:01 utc | 52 Boy, feel the force! The trolls are flocking out today…ugh. 2/3rds already, and not even at 60 posts. Posted by: Arcticman | Apr 14 2023 21:08 utc | 53 So, Baerbock today “approved” the Chinese “plan” in Ukraine, yet was surprised why China doesn’t put pressure on Russia to end SMO. The bimbo conveniently forgot that it’s a Nato mess and they control the other war party, Zelensky, which is why China doesn’t do anything. Posted by: unimperator | Apr 14 2023 21:17 utc | 54 Exile @27: “how would Kiev capitulate if it’s 100% controlled by Washington ?” Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 14 2023 21:45 utc | 55 Re: HH | Apr 14 #51 Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Apr 14 2023 21:47 utc | 56 @anon2020 | 20 Posted by: Dan Farrand | Apr 14 2023 22:02 utc | 57 Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 14 2023 21:45 utc | 54 Posted by: Mexicana | Apr 14 2023 22:02 utc | 58 Posted by: Dan Farrand | Apr 14 2023 22:02 utc | 56 Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Apr 14 2023 22:09 utc | 59 To add on to William Gruff’s grim post and story – 54 21:45 utc -, one might also have a look at the infamous Paraguayan war (or war of the Triple Alliance), which might be the most stubborn example of how far one side can keep fighting until exhausted and nearly exterminated. To put it bluntly: it was bad, it was so bad that I suppose any sane person would rather see his own country surrender at once than go through something that bad – at least when the terms of surrender are such, and not, say, what ISIS or 3rd Reich would impose upon their most hated and despised opponents. Posted by: Clueless Joe | Apr 14 2023 22:25 utc | 60 Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 14 2023 21:45 utc | 54 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 14 2023 22:26 utc | 61 @7 it’s still running at a massive discount which is the point to withhold money from russia. Posted by: kupkee | Apr 14 2023 22:28 utc | 62 Having the impression these discussion shows like Scott Ritter/Mercouris/Napolitano have not a single woman as guests. Posted by: AG | Apr 14 2023 22:34 utc | 63 William Gruff asks: Posted by: malenkov | Apr 14 2023 22:44 utc | 64 @Posted by: Milites | Apr 14 2023 15:40 utc | 5 On the USN: As usual, the Heritage Foundation’s assessment is the place to go for facts. Let’s begin with this set:
Here’s the segment reporting on subs:
And now for the overall score:
There’re additional tables describing ship type and their assessment. This evaluation is done for all service branches on an annual basis and is extremely authoritative. I cite and link to the Heritage Foundation’s Report several times yearly to deal with discussions like the one above. Again, here is the overall assessment of the Outlaw US Empire’s military:
The several previous years ratings weren’t much better than 2023’s, something that ought to have been considered prior to confronting Russia and China, but Neocons being what they are ignored the Empire’s ability not just to conduct war but to support Ukraine/NATO. That $1 Trillion yields a “weak” military ought to get everyone responsible fired. What the Outlaw US Empire has for a military is a Yes Sir! No Can Do Sir! military 100% unfit for Total Industrial War. “something that ought to have been considered prior to confronting Russia and China,” Posted by: arby | Apr 15 2023 0:08 utc | 67 https://dailyreckoning.com/the-worlds-about-to-change-big-time/ Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Apr 15 2023 0:10 utc | 68 Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 14 2023 23:06 utc | 65 Posted by: Milites | Apr 15 2023 0:14 utc | 69 LATEST from TeleTruth Posted by: HERMIUS | Apr 15 2023 0:16 utc | 70 @ William Gruff | Apr 14 2023 21:45 utc | 54 who wrote in relation to his personal experience Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 15 2023 0:17 utc | 71 Posted by: Roger | Apr 14 2023 23:03 utc | 64 Posted by: Milites | Apr 15 2023 0:35 utc | 72 ” So much TrollTeam effort has been gone into the “Russia has to sell it’s oil cheap” mime, now ZH runs this headline “Russian Oil Now Trades Consistently Above $60: Will The West Pretend Its Sanctions Are Still In Force” Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Apr 15 2023 1:04 utc | 73 Putin’s / Russia’s stupid tolerance of multi ethnic / multicultural BS is going to bite it in the ass just like its doing to Europe the US and other, formerly White majority nations. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Apr 15 2023 1:40 utc | 74 @William Gruff 54: Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Apr 15 2023 2:04 utc | 75 @Deplorable Commissar 71: Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Apr 15 2023 2:06 utc | 76 Deplorable Commissar # 71 Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Apr 15 2023 2:09 utc | 77 From Bernhard’s previous article on the leaks:
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Apr 15 2023 2:39 utc | 78 AG @ 62: Posted by: Paul Damascene | Apr 15 2023 2:56 utc | 79 The Reading Junkie was a US military intelligence officer and he totally disagrees with your assertion that a 21 year old airman couldn’t have access to the documents: Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Apr 15 2023 2:58 utc | 80 “How such a poor country (Poland) can sustain such extravagance is unclear………. Posted by: Sundance | Apr 15 2023 3:22 utc | 81 @ William Gruff | Apr 14 2023 21:45 utc | 54 Posted by: james | Apr 15 2023 3:59 utc | 82 ” Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Apr 15 2023 2:06 utc | 74 Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Apr 15 2023 4:02 utc | 83 ” “How such a poor country (Poland) can sustain such extravagance is unclear………. ” Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Apr 15 2023 4:07 utc | 84 @greenwood 4 Posted by: Sam | Apr 15 2023 5:35 utc | 85 Ya gotta wonder, in the possible/probable framing of the poor leaking kid, if the FBI don’t have some kind of leverage over him — eg, he was a kiddie porn downloader. Ie, you play along with our Leaks Op and well ignore your very naughty stuff. Posted by: The Dolphin | Apr 15 2023 5:39 utc | 86
Posted by: Down South | Apr 15 2023 5:53 utc | 87
Posted by: Down South | Apr 15 2023 5:55 utc | 88
Posted by: Down South | Apr 15 2023 5:57 utc | 89
Posted by: Down South | Apr 15 2023 6:05 utc | 90 Thanks to all who tried to answer my query. I’m still rather left thinking that as the saying goes, If you get a reputation as an early riser you can sleep til noon. Until you get rumbled, at any rate. Posted by: Guy L’Estrange | Apr 15 2023 6:53 utc | 91 The war will end when the glorious million man Ukrainian army – having lost only one man to a bad cold – storms into Moscow behind a hail of Himars rockets. The Russian army has already collapsed having lost the entire male population and is reduced to fighting with gardening tools. The oppressed Russian people will rise up in a glorious pro-Ukraine colour revolution, overthrowing the evil Putinist regime – and will clamour for Victoria Nuland to be their new Dear Leader. Posted by: marcjf | Apr 15 2023 6:53 utc | 92 HH @ 21
Apparently so, I haven’t scanned TG lately but this is notable, if true, or not exaggerated and the AFU flips it back: Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Apr 15 2023 7:08 utc | 93 ” “How such a poor country (Poland) can sustain such extravagance is unclear………. ” Posted by: Tom_12 | Apr 15 2023 7:11 utc | 94 “China, after the start of the Russian invasion, bought goods from the former Ukrainian territories, in particular, from Debaltseve — Reuters. Posted by: unimperator | Apr 15 2023 7:55 utc | 95 Personally I doubt Germany will exist within its current borders by 2030 Posted by: too scents | Apr 15 2023 8:02 utc | 96 Posted by: Down South | Apr 15 2023 5:55 utc | 86 Posted by: Milites | Apr 15 2023 9:04 utc | 97 In case no one’s paying attention to the other leak thread, I posted a new find of Melaleuca’s on my Google Drive and sent it to Larry Johnson who hadn’t seen that other tranche I uploaded. 47 document pics out of 48 mentioned by NYT. Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Apr 15 2023 9:08 utc | 98 Re: Language Police reporting for duty: Posted by: Exile | Apr 15 2023 9:10 utc | 99 Posted by: Milites | Apr 14 2023 19:30 utc | 38 Posted by: anon2020 | Apr 15 2023 9:53 utc | 100 |
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