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April 9, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-86
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Anybody else think that the US “Leaks” on the invasion plans etc smack of getting your excuses in early? Posted by: Bilejones | Apr 9 2023 13:05 utc | 1 Bilejones@1…1500lb glide bombs be like that. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Apr 9 2023 13:12 utc | 2 Bilejones Posted by: Wazdaka | Apr 9 2023 13:14 utc | 3 Continued from the other thread but also a consistent discussion about the US playing a disinformation game and that it really has huge stocks of everything with capability to make more. Posted by: Lex | Apr 9 2023 13:45 utc | 4 Posted by: Bilejones | Apr 9 2023 13:05 utc | 1 Posted by: Milites | Apr 9 2023 13:54 utc | 5 Posted by: Bilejones | Apr 9 2023 13:05 utc | 1 Posted by: Passerby | Apr 9 2023 13:56 utc | 6 If it’s intentionally dispersed misinformation, who is it meant to misinform? Posted by: Skiffer | Apr 9 2023 13:58 utc | 7 Lex@4…for the US to speed up munition procurement, as in WW2, it would require a Declaration of War to engage the might of the private sector. Russia will never declare war on any NATO affiliate. Should they, NATO, choose to declare war on Russia…….good luck with that. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Apr 9 2023 14:01 utc | 8 @Bilejones | Apr 9 2023 13:05 utc | 1 Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 9 2023 14:05 utc | 9 I believe part of the US plan was to have the Russians occupy areas of Ukraine and suffer US supported insurgencies, but:
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/59658 Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 9 2023 14:13 utc | 10 Just saw the dead tree NYT. The column 1 page 1 story (I’m sure as heck not doing more than reading a moment from the newsstand) is about how the leaks show that US has deeply penetrated and compromised Russian intelligence. Posted by: oldhippie | Apr 9 2023 14:14 utc | 11 Bilejones…it makes sense to me that this leak was approved and the information is real (setting aside the casualty numbers, which are garbage) and is being done too lay the groundwork to throw the Kiev regime under the bus once it becomes impossible to gaslight the public any longer about the dire position of Ukraine forces. It’ll be our way of saying, “hey, look, we tried everything to help them but…”. Posted by: KMRIA | Apr 9 2023 14:23 utc | 12
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/40799 Posted by: Down South | Apr 9 2023 14:24 utc | 13
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/41086 Posted by: Down South | Apr 9 2023 14:25 utc | 14 Am I the only one finding it utterly bizarre that Western intelligence would believe for a second that 97% of the Russian army is currently deployed and/or dedicated to Ukraine?… The statement, which reinforces Ben Wallace’s February remark, is beyond absurd. Is this pure incompetence, which I seriously doubt, the continuation of a psyop operation to discredit the Russian army?.. I am perplex I reckon…. Posted by: Ajax | Apr 9 2023 14:30 utc | 15 Continued Part 2
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/41087 Posted by: Down South | Apr 9 2023 14:38 utc | 16
https://t.me/resident_ua/16103
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17224 Posted by: Down South | Apr 9 2023 14:42 utc | 17 @ Down South | Apr 9 2023 14:25 utc | 14 Posted by: too scents | Apr 9 2023 14:43 utc | 18 In respect of the recent ‘leaks’. Posted by: Ken Tucky | Apr 9 2023 14:49 utc | 19 Has anyone seen any specific information on the supposed “100 other leaked documents” unrelated to Ukraine? I’ve seen only references to their existence but nothing specific on the content – just some very general mention of their subject matter. Posted by: the pessimist | Apr 9 2023 14:53 utc | 20 Is there any chance someone simple asked AI what a “leak” about the war would look like, and the result is what we see? Posted by: Pete | Apr 9 2023 15:00 utc | 21 @ Pete | Apr 9 2023 15:00 utc | 21 Posted by: too scents | Apr 9 2023 15:08 utc | 22 As Konami noted §307, #84), the American Mafia is sparing no effort propagandizing the proles of European nations – because they, laughingly, still have elections! Tee-hee! We´ll soon fix that. Posted by: John Marks | Apr 9 2023 15:09 utc | 23 @21 Posted by: Anthony | Apr 9 2023 15:23 utc | 24 reply to 4 Posted by: Eighthman | Apr 9 2023 15:28 utc | 25 The leak is there to hide Russian successes in their Special Military Operation which is to liberate Ukraine from Fascism and is certainly not a war of conquest initiated because Ukraine has no right to exist as a country independent of Russia. Posted by: Noam A. Larkey | Apr 9 2023 15:31 utc | 26 What is wrong with the “Secret plan” of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (part 2): analysis of the military chronicle Posted by: mo3 | Apr 9 2023 15:38 utc | 27 Ayhol there matey! Posted by: Ayhol | Apr 9 2023 15:38 utc | 28 In response to too scents@22, Posted by: Skiffer | Apr 9 2023 15:43 utc | 29 One of the main revelations of the response of the West to Russia´s, China´s, Arabia´s, India´s, Brazil´s, etc., etc., independence is drastic unforeseen consequences of Western societies forgoing tobacco. Posted by: John Marks | Apr 9 2023 15:46 utc | 30 One of the central problems faced by Russia in Ukraine is the difficulty of overcoming simple, WWI-style trench fortifications. They resist conventional artillery bombardment, but they are not immune to thermobaric weapons. The thermobaric warheads of the Russian TOS-1A MLRS can destroy just about anything, including trench networks, but they have relatively short range and there are not enough of them to deploy everywhere they are needed. Posted by: HH | Apr 9 2023 16:02 utc | 31 The MIC and its appendage at DoD is built for share prices and profit, not national defense. Posted by: jpc | Apr 9 2023 16:02 utc | 32 Posted by: Bilejones | Apr 9 2023 13:05 utc | 1 Posted by: Don Firineach | Apr 9 2023 16:05 utc | 33 Showed some acquaintances a photo gallery of Paris and they were completely sure this was isolated and minimal. They would have heard of it. Posted by: Exile | Apr 9 2023 16:08 utc | 34 Shocking Pentagon Intelligence Leak !!! Posted by: Christian Chuba | Apr 9 2023 16:11 utc | 35 “The Ukrainian authorities have begun to take back weapons from the civilian population of Dnepropetrovsk (a large city in Ukraine) that were distributed to citizens at the beginning of the war, fearing that the people would rise up against the corrupt government. Posted by: unimperator | Apr 9 2023 16:16 utc | 36 @ Down South | Apr 9 2023 14:24 utc | 13
There is nothing “wrong” as you questioned, due to that’s only managed for the “Public” audience, as You being one of them “puböics” (pls- excuse, you esp. Your friends are a good, appreciated writers here on MoA, but only ‘on paper’). Posted by: spare_truth | Apr 9 2023 16:25 utc | 37 @1 yes nato information centers are starting to promote the need to cancel due to information being leaked. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Apr 9 2023 16:45 utc | 38 @Eighthman Posted by: Chris | Apr 9 2023 16:46 utc | 39 @37 myself Posted by: spare_truth | Apr 9 2023 16:48 utc | 40 In the Ukraine, they would of sold the stolen bible? Posted by: Duncan Idaho | Apr 9 2023 16:52 utc | 41 The leaked document is probably a product of Zelensky ‘s office printed onto copied US official notepaper on April 1. Posted by: Giyane | Apr 9 2023 16:53 utc | 42
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17225
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17226
Posted by: Down South | Apr 9 2023 17:01 utc | 43
https://t.me/c/1676275372/53810 Posted by: Down South | Apr 9 2023 17:04 utc | 44 The leaks are real. I suspect that a faction of the Mossad is the source as it would be the most likely foreign intelligence service that could both access them and would have any reason to make them public. There’s a lot of US-Israeli shenanigans going on. Netanyahu went so far as to accuse Biden of color revolutioning him. And the article about “Russiagate” being an Israeli op looks like someone trying to undermine Bibi, so this could be a response. Posted by: Lex | Apr 9 2023 17:19 utc | 45 Video:
https://t.me/inessas1992/3599 Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 9 2023 17:21 utc | 46
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/41134 Posted by: Down South | Apr 9 2023 17:26 utc | 47 If it’s intentionally dispersed misinformation, who is it meant to misinform? Posted by: rk | Apr 9 2023 17:28 utc | 48 Time to repost this gem from a B. article – Posted by: Exile | Apr 9 2023 17:30 utc | 49 Posted by: Ayhol | Apr 9 2023 15:38 utc
Even if everything you said is verifiably true, this statement right here seems to miss the point. Russia DOES have 6k nuclear weapons and it can use them any time it wishes. It will NOT be pushed back for the simple reason that the Donbass and Lugansk areas are now a part of Russia by LAW. And Russian doctrine calls for defense by all means including nuclear weapons to defend its borders. Posted by: JustAnotherAussie | Apr 9 2023 17:31 utc | 50 RELEASED “SECRET DOCUMENTS” Posted by: young | Apr 9 2023 17:33 utc | 51 Re: Leaked documents Posted by: Dr M | Apr 9 2023 17:39 utc | 52 Quiz question, do you think the situation has got better or worse, in NATO countries, since 1999? Bearing in mind the UK was one of the only countries to contribute the agreed 4% of its budgetary spending on defence. Posted by: Milites | Apr 9 2023 17:39 utc | 53 Posted by: Down South | Apr 9 2023 17:01 utc | 43
Now, the AFU in city of Bahkmut – new name on CNN-TV ever heard? – (whereever there might be still sitting as a “duck” , or what else) is concentrated/compressed about 10-15 thousands soldiers in a small Western region of that town! Posted by: spare_truth | Apr 9 2023 17:49 utc | 54 If Russia continues to destroy significant concentrations of troops and materiel, it will not have mattered whether the leaked documents are genuine or fake. Posted by: malenkov | Apr 9 2023 17:51 utc | 55 If we ever hear of black market weapons traveling from Ukrainian warehouses to be used to kill American soldiers in Syria, that would be a sign of the Biden administration having its off-ramp in place. Same thing if such weapons were said to have been used against Israel, or claimed to have been used by the “peasants who are revolting”* in Paris. Posted by: Babel-17 | Apr 9 2023 17:53 utc | 56 Or Aelenskiy could be made to appear to be having been killed while actually not, as he is whisked away. However, he becomes a liability quite easily at any given time. His usefulness is fast wearing out. Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Apr 9 2023 18:15 utc | 57 NYT tweet saying leaked documents include elements of Mossad encouraging anti-government protests and even Mossad participation. To me that makes the leak look even more probably Mossad, loyal to Bibi and for the purpose of embarrassing the shit out of DC and warning. Posted by: Lex | Apr 9 2023 18:21 utc | 58 Posted by: young | Apr 9 2023 17:33 utc | 51
You know – as most of MoAs here know – that a so-called “Leak” publicly set on Twitter/Facebook or whereever .., and signed originally by ‘The Pentagon’ and/or its sub-contractors to give any reference about, is completely a fake. Posted by: spare_truth | Apr 9 2023 18:29 utc | 59 Russian missile and drone strikes beyond the front line are daily, all the way from Karkov to Odessa. Posted by: la bouteille | Apr 9 2023 18:38 utc | 60 Posted by: Lex | Apr 9 2023 17:19 utc | 45 Posted by: rjb1.5 | Apr 9 2023 18:42 utc | 61 ZH has a posting up with the title
Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 9 2023 18:47 utc | 62 The end result of taking Bakhmut/Artyomovsk is going to be hardened elite shock troop training.
Posted by: too scents | Apr 9 2023 19:15 utc | 63 Our source in the OP said that Zaluzhny is proposing to launch a double counteroffensive in the spring to stretch out the forces of the Russian army. Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Apr 9 2023 19:16 utc | 64 Re: NATO Air Force exercise Posted by: Exile | Apr 9 2023 19:21 utc | 65 Posted by: Dr M | Apr 9 2023 17:39 utc | 52 Posted by: Boo | Apr 9 2023 19:33 utc | 66 Re: the “leaked” documents. While I agree that there is something rather fishy about the timing and some of the information contained, as others pointed out last night (here in US time), Simplicius the Thinker broke down the Ukraine-related documents at his Substack and found that they mostly agreed with his previous analysis. There is talk in his comments about this “leak” perhaps, then, being mostly real and possibly even designed to expose Ukraine’s massive weaknesses heading into the so-called spring offensive. IF this is the case, then it’s possible whoever “leaked” them wants the plug pulled on this whole thing here in the West, meaning “time to negotiate, we can’t send you enough weapons for you to win anymore.” Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 9 2023 19:37 utc | 67 Posted by: young | Apr 9 2023 17:33 utc | 51 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 9 2023 19:40 utc | 68 I believe part of the US plan was to have the Russians occupy areas of Ukraine and suffer US supported insurgencies Posted by: Passerby | Apr 9 2023 20:02 utc | 69 I’m wondering if the leaking of the documents might have been initiated by elements in the Pentagon, who used an intermediary to facilitate its release. Several months ago I read an article (now ‘disappeared’ from the internet) about growing strains between the amateurs in the Nuland clan and officials at the Pentagon, over their ignoring military advice, whilst promoting increasingly dangerous rhetoric and policies over Ukraine. The Pentagon though could do nothing because the neo-cons had the President’s ear. What better way, therefore, to embarrass the neo-cons than to try to wrest the initiative away from them, by sabotaging their plans for a big offensive, whilst also revealing publicly, the true, dire state of the UA. Posted by: Milites | Apr 9 2023 20:05 utc | 70
I would say von der Leyen (VDL) visit was a complete debacle. Some have noted that she got dumped by Macron where he later met with Xi elsewhere far from VDL. Macron did manage to get business contracts signed for Airbus and purchased some LNG tankers from China. I see Macron’s faux pas during their joint press conference was to appease VDL and her handlers. Posted by: Ian2 | Apr 9 2023 20:12 utc | 71 I recall the time when the function of newspapers was to reveal what the powerful wanted to keep hidden. These days it seems that their purpose (and social media is a sort of newspaper too) is to broadcast the narratives that the powerful want promulgated. I’m looking at the “leaks” in that light. Posted by: Guy L’Estrange | Apr 9 2023 20:16 utc | 72 Posted by: Down South | Apr 9 2023 14:25 utc | 14 Posted by: Milites | Apr 9 2023 20:21 utc | 73 @Guy L’Estrange, #72: Posted by: Oriental Voice | Apr 9 2023 20:22 utc | 74 Prigozhin’s statements are not easy to fathom. It’s not only his irony (which goes deep), but also the way he describes relations between Wagner on one side and the Russian army and officials on the other. Whether it is obfuscation, or a real frustration with a remaining fifth column I personally can’t say. But any fifth column there could be, seems headed for expulsion (if not execution if Putin’s successor is more Stalinist). The early twentieth century is being replayed, on many fronts. Only the West doesn’t have the big guns exclusively anymore. Posted by: Anthony | Apr 9 2023 20:24 utc | 75 @Milites, #53: Posted by: Oriental Voice | Apr 9 2023 20:27 utc | 76 Ajax | Apr 9 2023 14:30 utc | 15 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 9 2023 20:27 utc | 77 Leaks are meant to OBFUSCATE … Posted by: Greg Galloway | Apr 9 2023 20:45 utc | 78 @ #50 Posted by: Ayhol | Apr 9 2023 20:51 utc | 79 reply to 71 Posted by: Eighthman | Apr 9 2023 20:59 utc | 80 Oriental Voice @76 “I didn’t know that has been the case, and I wonder what have they bought for that money spent. I for one can’t see anything useful.” Posted by: dh | Apr 9 2023 21:11 utc | 81 Here’s this commenter’s current take on the military situation in Ukraine: Posted by: Cynica | Apr 9 2023 21:15 utc | 82 One more aspect of the leaked documents affaire is quite interesting. The leak happened the day before Blinken officially confirmed that an Ukrainian counter-offensive should happen in the coming weeks. On the one hand, the leaked documents seem to confirm that Ukraine is not prepared for such an offensive because of lack of ammunition, equipment, etc. On the other hand, after the Blinken’s statement, Ukraine is put in a position where it must launch an offensive of some sort. Some have been tempted to assume that the leak affaire was an attempt at disinformation aimed at the Russians. But what if the target was Ukraine (whose dire situation is publicly exposed) or even the European sheeple (aka allies) who have been heavily invested in supporting Ukraine. Could this be an attempt at blackmailing the one or the other into doing something extremely desperate and stupid? Any thoughts on that would be appreciated. Posted by: Dr M | Apr 9 2023 21:17 utc | 83 Happy Easter to all! Posted by: 600w | Apr 9 2023 21:17 utc | 84 @Milites, #53: Posted by: JohninMK | Apr 9 2023 21:19 utc | 85 Well they have 2 new aircraft carriers both in dock with propeller shaft problems. Posted by: JohninMK | Apr 9 2023 21:23 utc | 86 Last week Congress tried to push through an extremely repressive law, aptly named the RESTRICT Act, which would allow the censorship-industrial complex to use the criminal justice system to shut down free speech, instead of just relying on the cancelling and banning they have been using for the last 7 years. Posted by: wagelaborer | Apr 9 2023 21:33 utc | 87 @Cynica | Apr 9 2023 21:15 utc | 82 Posted by: Spinworthy | Apr 9 2023 21:40 utc | 88 Eighthman | Apr 9 2023 20:59 utc | 80 Posted by: james | Apr 9 2023 21:44 utc | 89 @JohninMK, #86: Posted by: Oriental Voice | Apr 9 2023 21:46 utc | 90 Russian intelligent assets and surveillance is very sophisticated….they know exactly what is going on….any leaks authentic or fabricated are irrelevant to Russian operational plans. The Ukrainian grandiose plans are designed for public consumption and are fabricated. If the information was credible it would be accurate. The casualty figures are the litmus test in my opinion. I also suspect the plans are contrived by some narcissist online influencer blogtard using common sense and open source information and U.S is trying to capitalize on the confusion and public distraction..or hastily released by Ukrainian sources to form an viable excuse not to conduct the ill fated offensive operations they are being compelled to initiate.I think the general rule of thumb here still stands true…don’t believe a word coming out of U.S NATO or mainstream medias mouth..or side of mouth. The actual war is being waged against the Western public in conjunction with operations against Russia….we in the west have just had the largest PSYOP operation unleashed on us in the last few years and the misinformation war is continuing. Western supplied weapons systems will not only show up in Syria and Lebanon but also on the Mexican black market…they will come across the U.S border in time… asymmetrical warfare Posted by: Joe | Apr 9 2023 21:47 utc | 91 “Now China hangs RF out to dry like the U.S. did to Russia 1941-1944.” Posted by: kupkee | Apr 9 2023 21:47 utc | 92 To be clear Posted by: Lalita | Apr 9 2023 21:49 utc | 93 JohnMK @ 86 Thanks for the correction. So Queen Elizabeth carrier is fit and ready for action. British taxpayers must be proud. Posted by: dh | Apr 9 2023 21:58 utc | 94 Posted by: Ian2 | Apr 9 2023 20:12 utc | 71 Posted by: Chris | Apr 9 2023 22:03 utc | 95 @95 correction – cardinal son= “sin” Posted by: Chris | Apr 9 2023 22:11 utc | 96 Sanctions, what sanctions? Posted by: Paul GV | Apr 9 2023 22:15 utc | 97 Posted by: Chris | Apr 9 2023 22:11 utc | 96 Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Apr 9 2023 22:15 utc | 98 A
Good question – All here MoAs want to know an answer for that – Posted by: spare_truth | Apr 9 2023 22:21 utc | 99 Last week Congress tried to push through an extremely repressive law, aptly named the RESTRICT Act, which would allow the censorship-industrial complex to use the criminal justice system to shut down free speech, instead of just relying on the cancelling and banning they have been using for the last 7 years. Posted by: K | Apr 9 2023 22:22 utc | 100 |
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