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April 6, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-83
Comments
@OohCanada #100:
A study out of Ukraine saying that Ukrainians are all stupid Nazi loving scumbags…
The study never said that. You are saying it. Probably to distract from the evilness of what the CIA and its henchmen—the MSM, Facebook and Twitter—have perpetrated in the Ukraine by advising Ukrainian Nazis on how to do propaganda and giving them powerful instruments to do it.
Nato locked the doors on Ukrainians trying to flee and use mercs to point guns at the locals to make them fight. Russian mobilization of Ukrainian nationals has been basically the same.
Bullshit. Russia hasn’t mobilized Ukrainian nationals. DNR/LNR has mobilized its citizens at the beginning of the SMO, but they were not “Ukrainian nationals”—DNR/LNR became independent in 2014 and have been issuing their own passports since 2015—and DNR/LNR were not part of Russia at the beginning of the SMO.
There is no good in this battle, it is not good vrs evil or right vrs wrong.
Yes, there is good in this battle. People who want to continue to speak Russian, to be friends with Russia, to study their real history—not a collection of anti-Russian myths—to remember and celebrate the victory of their fathers and grandfathers over Nazism should be able to do that. They can’t do that in post-Maidan Ukraine under Ukrainian Nazis installed by the West.
Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 18:40 utc | 201
Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 7 2023 14:36 utc | 173
That could be crucial for designing electronic countermeasures. Anyone else remember how good Dom DeLuise was in Fail Safe playing a military technician, feeling tortured because he was ordered to share top secret info?
Fail Safe (1964) Orders
https://youtu.be/cgb0UVLAEvg
We’re idiots for recapitulating that supremely dangerous era.
Posted by: Babel-17 | Apr 7 2023 19:08 utc | 202
Posted by: lex talionis | Apr 7 2023 16:32 utc | 192
I like the new guy! I think he is a fellow GG Allin fan.
Agreed! A great song, no joking here. I offer this version.
I am still interested to hear from Finns about school education on Leningrad 1944. For comparison, German kids learn (better: hear) about Hitler, Machtergreifung, WW2 very often, year by year. I am afraid it stays at a superficial level. There’s a lot of “Nie wieder!” (never again). Current totalitarian trends are 100% missed. It’s a shame.
Posted by: Konami | Apr 7 2023 19:35 utc | 203
shadowbanned # 65 and followup comments.
Interesting comments regarding Russia deploying ICBMs near Finland in response to Finland joining NATO. You certainly do NOT want to waste a big, expensive, multiple stage, high Delta Vee missile to perform a strike that is best performed by a smaller, cheaper, simpler shorter range, lower velocity missile. For a number of technical reasons related to aerodynamic drag and heating, a reentry vehicle that is designed to encounter atmosphere at a very acute angle might not survive re-entry at a nearly perpendicular angle.
I would suggest that Putin is saber rattling to Finland. The real message is that by placing ICBMs close to Finland, Russia is ensuring that Finland will be getting a dose of fallout from any American nuclear strike against Russia’s nuclear forces. Finland is being invited to reconsider its NATO membership.
Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Apr 7 2023 19:56 utc | 204
@ mikael – welcome to the bar ! You might add some piquant to this place. Btw, do you happen to like Trump ? I’m looking forward to him being POTUS again.
Posted by: Featherless | Apr 7 2023 19:58 utc | 205
@Outraged #101:
…the full report(Mar20’23) is here in PDF. It, like many others was sponsored by USAID as part of societal monitoring of the Ukraine polity. It was via phone polling & strongly doubt the language used and supposed findings are as stated by S.
First of all, I haven’t “stated” anything. I have translated an article published in EurAsia Daily, a reprint of an article by Svyatoslav Knyazev published in RuBaltic. Secondly, you don’t have to “doubt” that the report’s findings are as stated in the article—you can open the report which you have linked to and fucking read it.
Rubaltic.ru appears to be a deliberate disinfo/provocation OP in this case, though need a ‘trusted’ english translation of the KIIS report.
Appears to whom? To an conspiratard idiot such as yourself? I have read the KIIS report and the figures are the same as in Knyazev’s article.
Way to go, S. Hm ?
What’s that supposed to mean?
Listen, you seem to think of yourself as some kind of brilliant anti-troll detective, a Sherlock Holmes of sorts, and you seem to believe that you have “outed” me as some kind of evil troll, but in reality you’re more like a village idiot vigilante burning down your neighbor’s barn because you’re convinced it’s an alien HQ.
I’ve been posting on this website for five years, and, as long-time posters will confirm, all this time I’ve been defending Russia (as well as Syria, Venezuela, and other countries) against all kinds of lies and insinuations. How did you get this notion that I’m an “enemy”, I don’t really know.
Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 20:14 utc | 206
@ S | Apr 7 2023 20:14 utc | 206
Comment to Karlof1 stands. USAID. Figures are, and ? Care to actually accurately translate the primary source, the ‘actual’ report ? Five years ? More than 20, not that it means diddly-squat. The rest, as per your projected perception ? Pass. Oh and you can take your extended ad-hominem/strawmen and shove it. Have a nice day. 🙂
Hey people, we can do without customers like Mikael. Well, he should take a course basic writing anyway. And coming into a bar smashing the glasses before having a drink does not plead for an amiable character does it?
The intellectual level of the trolls is really not improving. Are NATO funds running out? And running out a bit faster than Russian missiles…?
Posted by: Anthony | Apr 7 2023 20:36 utc | 208
Cont’d from #206
How did you get this notion that I’m an “enemy”, I don’t really know.
But I suspect it was because in January I have posted Aleksandr Kharchenko’s recollection of inefficient (in his opinion) tank tactics employed near Izyum while he was stationed there in spring 2022—a recollection that was attacked by Richard Steven Hack with “what the fuck does he know about tank tactics?”. As I have explained (here and here), Kharchenko and Shilov were embedded with General Suheil al-Hassan’s Tiger Forces for 4 years and, as a result, have witnessed all major battles in Syria and the way tanks were used in those battles. You dismissed my explanation of Kharchenko’s experience with:
Bullshit. Baseless unknowable unsupported irrational illogical fallacious provocative assertion.
Have been a spectator at quite a few Formula 1 Races, took photos & footage over many decades, doesn’t mean I know jack shit about running a F1 racing team. Same goes for Kharchenko re ‘Tank Tactics or any related formal professional military matter’, S.
…
You appear to have an agenda, IMV.
You can choose to move on you know, instead of pointlessly, incessantly, vomiting it up & raking over the coals.
Of course, that was a completely bogus analogy, because watching F1 races is not the same as being embedded with troops for 4 years, constantly talking to everyone from soldiers to generals. But that’s not the point.
The point is that you seem to think that my defense of Kharchenko as a reliable source somehow makes me a troll. That sofa warrior prima donnas like RSH should just be free to shit on real heroes like Kharchenko and we should all just shut up while they’re doing that. Well, I won’t shut up. I will keep defending reliable, honorable people like Kharchenko, and that doesn’t make me a troll. In fact, you’re the troll here, because of your narrow-minded inability to comprehend that Russian generals are not infallible and that they can make mistakes, too, which leads you to attack anyone who reports any problems or mistakes on the Russian side, even those who have previously defended Russian generals against unfair criticism.
Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 20:37 utc | 209
@Outraged #207:
Comment to Karlof1 stands.
No, it doesn’t. You have claimed that Knyazev’s article was “a deliberate disinfo/provocation” and insinuated that the figures given in the article are not the same as in the report: “strongly doubt … supposed findings are as stated by S”. Whereas in reality the figures in the article (and my translation of it) are the same as the figures in the report, a fact that anyone can verify using their favorite machine translation service. Conclusion: you are a liar. Also, you have used your lies to smear me as a disinformer, which makes you a piece of shit. End of story.
Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 20:52 utc | 210
@209
S and Outraged, please calm down and have a beer (may I suggest Kasteelbeer Donker, it’s really quite nice).
Look at WO2’s history – of course Russians made mistakes. But they won. It cost al lot, but they won, against all odds so to say. And whatever mistakes are made, I’m sure they will win again, so no reason to quarrel.
Posted by: Anthony | Apr 7 2023 20:53 utc | 211
@177
I agree. But I can’t believe many people are willing to die for a Macron, Rutte, Scholz, De Croo…Would take more than a Leni Riefenstahl to stage enthousiasm for those puppets…
Posted by: Anthony | Apr 7 2023 21:07 utc | 212
S | Apr 7 2023 20:37 utc | 209 & S | Apr 7 2023 20:52 utc | 210
January ??? RSH ??? Oh, just farck-o–.
You deliberately overlook the key qualifier ‘appears’, etc. Obtuse idget, the figures are NOT what matters. Yet more abusive ad-hominem, multiple posts.
Self ascribed projection as a troll ? Grow-up, Junior. Pray, please continue …
Posted by: Konami | Apr 7 2023 19:35 utc | 203
Rock on my fellow traveler. Long live GG Allin. I miss Mikael already, if only for the chance to find a musical response. 🙁
That accordion version is great. New to me. Thanks!
I’ll pose your question to the few Finns I know. Most of them are Satanic Warmaster friends, so who knows what I’ll come up with.
Posted by: lex talionis | Apr 7 2023 21:14 utc | 214
@ English Outsider 16
In Syria according to voltairenet the Volker policy was unconditional surrender of Assad before the terrorists would be put back on the leash. Germany was running the war against Syria from a Nato base in Adana, Turkey.
Turkey is still up to its eyeballs in Nato dissimulation when it accuses Kurdistan of supporting PKK and containing the Daesh in prisons for the US. The US is supporting Erdogan’s opponents because Erdogan’s hatred of Kurdistan dates back to the loss of the Ottoman Empire, and is a camouflage for his love of Everything Nato.
My point is that German politicians have channelled their former Nazism into Zionist hatred of Islam. This allows them and their people to play a much bigger game , even if it’s not their own game. It still racism and they like it.
The Islamists that the CIA used to destroy Libya, the Islamist Erdogan, the USUKIS Islamist proxies of Al Qaida and Daesh, the Zionazi Netanyahu and his terrorist IDF, the Azov Banderites and the EU leadership are ALL one and the same Fascist Nazi uniparty.
In other words whatever the Uniparty Nazis are doing is what the former Nazi populations want them to do.
Here we are, supposedly discussing a leaked US document of war which shows how weak the opponents of Russia are on the ground. But the only true comparison is between how many millions of Europeans love Nazism and Islamophobia, and how many millions of Russians and Muslims oppose this racist Nazism/racism/Islamophobia.
The ratio is 1:100. 1 racist islamophobe to 100 Muslims who are prepared to fight for Islam.
Posted by: Giyane | Apr 7 2023 21:20 utc | 215
@Anthony #211:
Thanks, but I won’t be having any beers with liars.
Please go read Kharchenko’s January post about Kamenka, RSH’s reaction to it (CharlesLutherThanos was RSH’s posting name at the time), my reply to RSH, my translation of an interview with Kharchenko and Shilov and follow-up comment on RSH’s reply, and Outraged’s comment. Then tell me it was all reasonable.
Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 21:30 utc | 216
@ S | Apr 7 2023 21:30 utc | 216 … RSH ??? January ?! Yet more childish churlish ad-hominem, and … ?
@Outraged #213:
You deliberately overlook the key qualifier ‘appears’, etc.
Oh, sure, now you’re backing down.
Obtuse idget, the figures are NOT what matters.
Sure, sure, “the figures are NOT what matters”, that’s why you wrote that you “…strongly doubt … supposed findings are as stated by S”, insinuating that the report’s findings, which consist entirely of figures, have been misrepresented by Knyazev or by me.
Yet more abusive ad-hominem, multiple posts.
But when you do it—“obtuse idget”—that doesn’t count, right?
Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 21:45 utc | 218
@ S | Apr 7 2023 21:30 utc | 216
@ S | Apr 7 2023 21:45 utc | 218
RSH ??? Jan 19 ?!
No backdown, utter rubbish. Addressing you appropriately as an idget after your flurry of serial repeated personal attacks & ad-hominem ? The Gall. Look up obtuse.
And no, ’tis not the figures, that matter. 😉
You are outright TROLLING & deliberately a serial aggressive provocateur re personal attacks. Oh, and do standby the post you referenced @ Outraged | Jan 19 2023 7:00 utc | 358, too, 100% by the way. Do you actually believe anyone’s interested in your spammy bile ? Thank you. Would you like fries with that ? 🙂
S @197–
I just read your reply to mine @96. As I subsequently wrote, I did a very brief search that provided me with the info that the term is derogatory, certainly not a place name as both linked items implied. Knowing what I know of the Ukie/Nazi history, it’s always been an easy assumption that some portion of the population continued to be further polluted by Nazism while others were indoctrinated. Given other info, I’d assumed somewhere @25% of the population was infected, making DeNazification a doable goal.
If Outraged is correct that the two links you provided were to articles assessing the original report, then what I need to see is the original so I can weigh its credibility and go from there.
I’m, now moving onto the next page of comments to read what’s there.
@Outraged #213:
January ??? RSH ??? Oh, just farck-o–.
As I said, I don’t really know why you decided that I am an “evil person” or “troll” and then proceeded to constantly attack my posts, insinuating bad intent where there is none, but our January interaction seems like a good candidate, as that’s when you first claimed that I have “an agenda”.
Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 22:09 utc | 221
@ S | Apr 7 2023 22:09 utc | 221
Telepathic now ? lol
Self describing as an “evil person” or “troll” ? Again, deliberately ignore the qualifier/caveat, ‘appear’. Boring. And … ?
Posted by: John Marks | Apr 7 2023 14:58 utc | 179
Some light editing… 😉
“Kievan Rus” or “Čornarus” (Чорнарус) could survive as oblasts Kiev, Žitomir, Xmelynitski, Vinitsa, Čerkasi, Yelisavetgrad and, perhaps, Poltava and Černigov. And it would have the current status of Belarus.
Posted by: hopehely | Apr 7 2023 22:26 utc | 223
@Outraged #219:
Addressing you appropriately as an idget after your flurry of serial repeated personal attacks & ad-hominem ?
…
You are outright TROLLING & deliberately a serial aggressive provocateur re personal attacks.
I have never insulted you before you insulted me and started insinuating that there is some bad intent behind my posts:
You appear to have an agenda, IMV.
You can choose to move on you know, instead of pointlessly, incessantly, vomiting it up & raking over the coals.
All because I defended Aleksandr Kharchenko, a true hero who has been embedded with General Suheil al-Hassan’s Tiger Forces for 4 years and saw all major Syrian battles and how tanks were used in those battles, against RSH’s claims that he doesn’t know anything about tank tactics.
Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 22:33 utc | 224
@ S | Apr 7 2023 22:33 utc | 224
Sigh. Repetitious blah-blah. 8 posts. Almost four months later ?! Serial ad-hominem apologia ? Starting to wonder if you are the actual, S. In any case b will no doubt delete all this shyte. Have better things to do …
Outraged
S is good. I have not agreed with her on some things but she is not a nutcase like the hack. I have developed a respect for S whereas gameboy has proven himself to be a piece of shit.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 7 2023 22:44 utc | 226
@Outraged #222:
Telepathic now ?
Telepathic refers to people who claim to know what others are thinking.
I have written the exact opposite: that I don’t really know why you have decided I’m an “enemy” and proceeded to constantly attack my posts—that I can only I guess at the reasons.
Congratulations on having zero reading comprehension skills!
Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 22:46 utc | 227
Posted by: Giyane | Apr 7 2023 21:20 utc | 215
My point is that German politicians have channelled their former Nazism into Zionist hatred of Islam. This allows them and their people to play a much bigger game , even if it’s not their own game. It still racism and they like it.
I don’t think that description quite fits. It is true that Germany has supported war efforts in Syria (with the official goal to topple the mass murderer etc. Assad) and Afghanistan (official goals “building wells and girl schools” — yes, there are educated people who still believe that). On the other hand, in the Yugoslavia tragedy, Germany sided with Slovenia, Croatia and Kosovo (always extremely early as a political entity), and specifically against Serbs (you can make a reasonable claim that this is parallel to WW2 alliance lines). As I see it, religion as so often is only a superficial part of the story — the above list shows it.
In domestic politics, at least the official line is *very* pro-muslim. Every half-bit politician has said/tweeted “Ramadan mubarak”, and as in most Western countries, Islam is a live religion whereas Christianity is dead or moribund.
It is true that adamant pro-Israelism is another part of German official statehood. This has been clearly expressed in many politicans’ statements. It led to seriously disturbing events such as self-proclaimed radical left activists boycotting/preventing Jewish peace activists who want to talk about Israel apartheid politics against Palestinians.
The obvious contradiction between these two stances is generally dissonanced away. It may be not too much better in my new home but I am so happy to have left that cesspool.
Posted by: lex talionis | Apr 7 2023 21:14 utc | 214
I’ll pose your question to the few Finns I know. Most of them are Satanic Warmaster friends, so who knows what I’ll come up with.
Thank you! No need to convert you but there’s so much strong Finnish black metal… why listen to NSBM Satanic Warmaster when there’s Aegrus or Horna?
Posted by: Konami | Apr 7 2023 23:01 utc | 228
S & Outraged–
I can see why S provided the translated articles that cited the results since the paper is in PDF that can’t be translated via the usual means, although it can as I translated the first several pages. As a statistical study, it’s essentially worthless as it lacks Validity and Reliability given the lack of quantification and qualification of those supposedly interviewed. Your usual newspaper polling products are better as they almost always satisfy both measures yet become invalid and unreliable when extrapolated beyond the number polled, which has always been their weakness.
So, I return to my initial assumptions as the study doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. That neither reviewer caught the study’s fatal flaws is unfortunate as is the resulting spat between two very valuable members of our bar.
Given the highly questionable credibility of any Ukrainian institution and ubiquity of propaganda paraded as truth within that failed colony, it’s just as possible the entire paper was contrived or is somewhat accurate, although determining what and where is a dubious proposition. When I was a professor, if a student handed this in as a finished product, it would soon be returned to be redone due to the multiple redline errors of which the major two I’ve mentioned.
If anyone here is a liar, it’s the author(s) of the paper.
S | Apr 7 2023 22:58 utc | 228
Well I guess outraged is right and I was wrong. I’m always a sucker for punishment. Too soft.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 7 2023 23:07 utc | 230
@#Peter AU1 226
thank you but you’re a fucking whack job so stay in your corner and as far from me as possible
Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 22:58 utc | 228
Not doing yourself any favours S.
PeterAu is the only tolerable drunk at this bar, not a whack job, just a man in pain of terminal illness (as I understand it). He wears his heart on his sleeve and occasionally says dumb shit when he drinks too much, but mostly his words are useful and well informed. it would be smarter and kinder of you to just say thanks to him for having your back.
I also don’t agree with Outraged when he or RSH attack people so don’t be as big a dick ok?
Apologies are now in order imho.
Posted by: K | Apr 7 2023 23:07 utc | 231
Posted by: Giyane | Apr 7 2023 21:20 utc | 215
Kurdistan was an ethnostate conferred in the Balfour declaration in the defeat of the Ottoman Empire. It was later omitted in the Treaty of Lausanne and the PKK is not very happy about that. It is currently acting an extension of Israel and in a military alliance with Israel and the US, sitting on Syrian Oil as the country starves under sanctions and destroying any semblance of peace in the region. I am not clear what there is to like about it. However, as soon as the US returns Texas to Mexico or Montana the the Indians, or even Hawaii to the Hawaiians, I promise to be the first in line to support the further fractioning of Turkey.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Apr 7 2023 23:15 utc | 232
I hope this is true
Readovka: ❗️Artyomovsk passes under the control of Russia – the Armed Forces of Ukraine are trying to break through to the defense line near Chasov Yar
Artyomovsk (Bakhmut) fell, the city passes under the complete control of the Wagner PMC fighters. A source from Readovka reports that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are actively destroying abandoned equipment, part of the personnel retreats to the defense line to Chasov Yar, but suffers heavy losses.
Artillery is active at the moment. The head of the “orchestra” Yevgeny Prigozhin has not yet confirmed the information about complete control over the city. Some of the APU fighters still remain within the settlement and are trying to get to the western positions.
Posted by: ctiger | Apr 7 2023 23:19 utc | 233
karlof1 | Apr 7 2023 23:06 utc | 230
Karl, that response @228. “thank you but you’re a fucking whack job so stay in your corner and as far from me as possible”
She is just another drug/Biden addled female.
That thing in life about live and learn. I forget the user name of that other fucked up female that used to comment here. S has moved or perhaps always was in that world.
Outraged is correct
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 7 2023 23:22 utc | 234
K | Apr 7 2023 23:07 utc | 232
K, I’m not sure on what to say. If my drunken memory is correct you are Australian. We look at this shit. I guess different views. what to say.. fuck the Americans? They have taken my country. they have taken my children.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 7 2023 23:34 utc | 235
“S” #228:
@#Peter AU1 226
thank you but you’re a fucking whack job so stay in your corner and as far from me as possible
This comment was not written by me.
Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 23:38 utc | 236
S | Apr 7 2023 23:38 utc | 237
If that was not written by you, send an email to b. I guess I sparked up in response to a troll. A username usurper.
I cant abide by fakes and faggots that use my name.;
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 7 2023 23:49 utc | 237
@Peter AU1 #226:
I have developed a respect for S whereas gameboy has proven himself to be a piece of shit.
Thank you, Peter. I also respect you. About a week ago I got worried about you because you haven’t been posting for some time. I was about to ask other barflies about you, but then I found your VK page in my browsing history, so I went there and saw that you just logged off. Your recollections about your time in Western Australia were fascinating to me, I’ve read them all. I actually went on Google Maps and studied that area, trying to find that place you were told of, where Indigenous Australians were massacred. I was amazed to find out that the rivers in those lands are drying up, then flowing again. We don’t have that in Russia—at least not to my knowledge. Please take care of yourself.
Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 23:52 utc | 238
Yes, the spat has enabled the name hijackers. I suggest letting the thread die while remembering the lesson.
@Peter AU1 #238:
If that was not written by you, send an email to b.
I’m writing it right now. I think it’s pretty clear who the impostor is.
Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 23:57 utc | 240
Strongly suspect this whole provocative farce is the work of our resident & currently active, Impostor (Sean_UA et al). C’est la vie.
@ karlof1 | Apr 7 2023 23:06 utc | 230
‘Twas obvious from the get go, given the text, especially re non-linked nor referenced secondary ‘articles’ to KIIS, & further the translated abstract & what KIIS actually is, sponsored by & products produced, upon review. As previously identified & stated.
@ K | Apr 7 2023 23:07 utc | 232
Yet more ad-hominem, to both Peter AU1 & myself. Tolerable drunk/dumb shit ? Attack ? Big dick ? FO. You can buddy up with S.
@ S | Apr 7 2023 22:58 utc | 228
‘This comment was not written by me.’ Yet all the others were ? lol
@ S | Apr 7 2023 23:57 utc | 241
I’m writing it right now. I think it’s pretty clear who the impostor is.
FO, doubly so.
@karlof1 #230:
I can see why S provided the translated articles that cited the results since the paper is in PDF that can’t be translated via the usual means, although it can as I translated the first several pages.
PDFs can be translated with Yandex Translate. Go to translate.yandex.com, click the “Sites” tab, choose “Ukrainian” in the left pop-up and “English” in the right pop-up, then paste the URL of the KIIS study in the website address field and click the arrow icon to the right of it.
As a statistical study, it’s essentially worthless as it lacks Validity and Reliability given the lack of quantification and qualification of those supposedly interviewed.
I respectfully disagree. The necessary weighting has been performed:
INFORMATION ABOUT THE STUDY
This report presents the results of a survey of Ukrainian residents conducted by the Kiev International Institute of Sociology (KIIS), commissioned by the Ministry of Culture and Information Policy of Ukraine. The study examined the opinions and views of Ukrainian residents on various issues related to the perception of history and the perception of historical figures and events.
The survey was conducted on January 19-27, 2023 by telephone interview. 2004 adult residents of Ukraine were interviewed. A random sample of mobile phone numbers generated randomly (random digit dialing) was used. At the stage of data processing, the results obtained were weighted taking into account the gender and age structure of the permanent population of Ukraine in accordance with the data of the State Statistics Service as of January 1, 2022 (for the place of residence of the respondent, information was taken as of February 24, 2022).
The study sample is representative of the adult population of Ukraine (aged 18 years and older). The statistical sampling error (with a probability of 0.95 and excluding the design effect) does not exceed 2.2% for indicators close to 50%, 1.9% for indicators close to 25 or 75%, 1.3% for indicators close to 10 or 90%, and 1.0% for indicators close to 5 or 95% , 0.4% for indicators close to 1 or 99%.
Sure, there’s the self-censoring effect that Svyatoslav Knyazev mentioned in the article about the study, but it can’t be the sole explanation for the answers. And if you think USAID funding is somehow tainting the result, well, think about it: is the U.S. actually interested in Ukrainians displaying Nazi sympathies in a study performed by a well-known polling organization? Shouldn’t they be hiding this instead? So I don’t think there’s any inflation of pro-Nazi sentiment among Ukrainians because of U.S. tampering. It really is that bad (plus the self-censoring effect).
If anyone here is a liar, it’s the author(s) of the paper.
Again, respectfully disagree. We haven’t seen any evidence that they are lying.
My personal experience of browsing Ukrainian websites and Russian websites (where many Ukrainians continue posting to this day) for the past 9 years shows that average Ukrainians’ views on history are increasingly divorced from reality.
Posted by: S | Apr 8 2023 0:37 utc | 242
Outraged | Apr 8 2023 0:21 utc | 242
K is good, S is good You are good. I am too tired to write anything else. as K said, I am the town drunk and that was a correct observation.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 8 2023 0:39 utc | 243
Those cunts that sdhot down MH17. My government were certainly accomplices.I watch the people about me…They will have a fucking hard landing. They don’t read , they don’t look.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 8 2023 0:52 utc | 245
@K #232
I’m honestly disappointed that people would believe that it was my comment. It’s totally not in my style. I have never been callous to anyone on this site. I’ve been angry a few times, yes, but never callous. I mean, even if you look at the formatting, the first letter of the sentence isn’t capitalized, there’s no dot at the end. I never write like that. The reply style is also different from mine. But mostly the content. Have I ever written anything like that? No.
Posted by: S | Apr 8 2023 0:53 utc | 246
I am the town drunk and that was a correct observation.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 8 2023 0:39 utc | 244
Correction I said the only tolerable one and it was meant to be a joke, and I don’t consider you a drunk.
Your memory is correct am an Aussie and a woman if it matters. Yes our country is sold off, banks, water, resources, media. At least we know it eh and have a few decent people to talk to about it here.
All the best to you.
Posted by: K | Apr 8 2023 0:53 utc | 247
But mostly the content. Have I ever written anything like that? No.
Posted by: S | Apr 8 2023 0:53 utc | 247
That’s what I thought too, my apologies, it was all getting a bit much and I forgot about the possibility of imposters.
Posted by: K | Apr 8 2023 1:00 utc | 248
@Outraged #242:
‘Twas obvious from the get go, given the text…
And what’s wrong with the text? Nothing. It’s a completely normal text. There’s nothing wrong with it. More ludicrous insinuations from you.
…especially re non-linked nor referenced secondary ‘articles’ to KIIS…
And why should an article posted in EurAsia Daily, a news website with a focus on geopolitics with a quite large volume of news, include a reference to the KIIS study? It’s not a scientific journal. It takes 5 seconds to find KIIS website on Goggle, and the title of study has been mentioned right in the beginning of the article: “Kiev International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) has published the shocking results of the Historical Memory study, which help to understand the mechanism of the mass spread of neo-Nazi sentiment in the Ukraine.”
…& further the translated abstract…
And what’s wrong with the translated abstract? Nothing. More insinuations from you.
…& what KIIS actually is, sponsored by & products produced, upon review. As previously identified & stated.
And what it “actually is”? It’s an established polling organization, founded in 1990. Sure, you could say that anyone in the Ukraine can be threatened if they don’t publish what the regime wants, and you’d be right, but does the Ukrainian regime actually want Ukrainians showing such overt sympathies for German Nazism in a poll conducted by a major Ukrainian polling organization? No. Because it goes against their line that Nazism in the Ukraine is “Putin’s propaganda”.
So you haven’t actually “identified” anything wrong with the KIIS study and Knyazev’s article about it. You just keep posting baseless insinuations and lies in the desperate hope that something will stick, but nothing is sticking.
Posted by: S | Apr 8 2023 1:19 utc | 249
@Outraged #242:
‘This comment was not written by me.‘ Yet all the others were ? lol
Yes, all other comments in this comment thread signed by “S” have been written by me.
Posted by: S | Apr 8 2023 1:24 utc | 250
@ S | Apr 8 2023 1:19 utc | 250
Jeebus farcking wept. Serial ad-hominem, fatuously obtuse, obsessively deliberate provocateur TROLLING. OUT!
@Outraged #252
It must really hurt. You’ve been trying so hard to smear me and bury this article under mountains of your bullshit, and it was all for naught. Anyone reading this page will quickly understand who is the reasonable person here and who is the dishonest asshole. I will now forever be able to simply refer people to this page so they can see who you really are.
Posted by: S | Apr 8 2023 1:54 utc | 252
Outraged | Apr 8 2023 0:48 utc | 245
I am no prostitute. I am not for sale. cheers to you Outraged. You, karl, james many others. what it would be like to sit around a campfire. Gotta have james. he can make some music while we talk bullshit.
I am short tempered but so many good people here.
The lyrics need to be changed a bit bit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfZVu0alU0I But that is where we are at. Not because of evil nations attacking us. Just anglosphere stupidity.
So many thoughts Outraged. My working weight was always 64 kilos My youn ger days when nit was the pub for friday and Saturday nights. I dunno what to say. Life was interesting. I never had twitch speed. I should have learned Soviet/Russian sambo. Iwas fit as fuck and it was never an issue to take someone down. But then what to do? I didn’t know about the holds that cut blood supply to the brain or break limbs. Young and dumb.
I think back now. Young, dumb piece of high tensile cable. fit as fuck. I look back. My reading through the years. A dictionary allways on my bedside so I could look up words I did not understand.
Like you, I am outraged at whast we see. Take care man.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 8 2023 2:12 utc | 253
K | Apr 8 2023 0:53 utc | 248
Australia. Old Jerry. the last to walk a mob down the tanami. I shot his sons dog and he stood up for me. Jerry knew the bloke that run he mail to Birdsvill.
To load of fuel, he would pull the bungs out stand on the truck and pull them up with two fingers.
Jerries son was large and fit as fuck. I shot his dog. He was a good man. A hard man. I always remember people like that
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 8 2023 2:33 utc | 254
Something to clear up. Some people may have noticed karlof1 referring to me as “he” and Peter AU1 referring to me as “she” and wondered what the hell was up with that. The answer is that I have never specified my gender and age on this website and I prefer to keep it that way. You can refer to me as “he/she” or simply “S”.
Posted by: S | Apr 8 2023 2:36 utc | 255
Outraged | Apr 8 2023 1:25 utc | 252
b will soon delete the fake.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Apr 8 2023 2:38 utc | 256
For anyone who is confused about how to use Yandex Translate to translate PDFs, here’s a direct link to the Yandex Translate translation of the KIIS study: link. I hope it works for other people. Right in the opening “Key Results” section (“Attitude to certain historical figures and events” subsection) we read that:
Condemnation of the National Socialist regime and a ban on the use and propaganda of its symbols are supported by 62% of the adult population, 28% do not support it, and 10% are undecided. Condemnation of the Communist regime and a ban on the use and propaganda of its symbols are supported by 71%, 23% do not support it, and 5% are
undecided.
So, 28% of Ukrainians are against condemnation of Germany’s Nazi regime. Not the OUN/UPA, but Germany’s Nazi regime! Exactly as stated in Knyazev’s article that I have translated and posted in #84. Now, are the U.S. or the Ukraine interested in publishing such a result? Absolutely not, because it supports what Russia has been saying all along about the increasing Nazification of the Ukraine. So we can safely ignore the worries about this particular figure having been “inflated” by the U.S. or the Ukraine.
Other figures mentioned in Knyazev’s article are also exactly the same as in the study. Thus, Outraged’s insinuations that the article somehow misrepresents the study are completely false. Svyatoslav Knyazev is a journalist, historian and international relations specialist. He is an author of several scientific publications and a co-author of two books. He’s been working as a journalist for 17 years. To suggest that he would misrepresent a publicly available sociological study is ludicrous.
Outraged’s claims that there’s something wrong with the study itself are baseless. Just because the USAID is occasionally providing grants to a polling organization does not necessarily mean that all its results—or even any of its results—are propaganda. There may be other reasons for the USAID to provide grants to such an organization, such as… drumroll… being interested in what Ukrainians think! And, of course, the study in question wasn’t even commissioned by the USAID, it was commissioned by Ukraine’s Ministry of Culture and Information Policy.
Posted by: S | Apr 8 2023 4:30 utc | 257
@ Peter AU1 | Apr 8 2023 2:38 utc | 257
Yep. Ludicrous. The whole thing is concocted from the start, including the fake S being hijacked, by the fake S. lol. Impostor (Sean_UA)(psychopathy?) trawls through posts & archives, looking for potential leverage-able posts to fabricate conflict, ie from Jan 19 ? Same profile, same MO prior to being banned. 🙁
Peace.
@ S (Sean_UA) | Apr 8 2023 1:54 utc | 253
@ S (Sean_UA) | Apr 8 2023 4:30 utc | 258
Deluded self-own, own-goal, butt-hurt(?), ad-hominem, S (Sean_UA). Nutzo obsessive projection & incomprehension. You wish to reference for posterity ? RAOTFLMFAO. LOL. Hohoho.
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Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 7 2023 14:36 utc | 173
There won’t be much information to be gained from the Link 16 unless somebody is able to break the very strong crypto which is embedded within the terminal.
Posted by: First Time Poster | Apr 8 2023 8:27 utc | 259
198 thanks for the laugh. i do remember that post of him hiding talking about how dangerous it was behind some cover, the full front line journalist. then an old lady walks past with her shopping and looks at him like he is an idiot .
Posted by: hankster | Apr 20 2023 8:00 utc | 260