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April 6, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-83
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
@ karlof1 | Apr 7 2023 0:25 utc | 96 Posted by: Outraged | Apr 6 2023 15:07 utc | 1 Posted by: Response2 | Apr 7 2023 1:19 utc | 102
Even that will be hard. Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 7 2023 1:26 utc | 103 Meanwhile, Posted by: olaf22 | Apr 7 2023 2:00 utc | 104 Larry Johnson on “NATO secret document leaks”:
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Apr 7 2023 2:15 utc | 105 Posted by: S | Apr 6 2023 23:03 utc | 83 Posted by: rjb1.5 | Apr 7 2023 2:16 utc | 106 Outraged @100– What were the total assessed losses in the document? Odd that none of the twitter or Telegram accounts I follow stated what they are, but many mention that the document included them. Posted by: sch | Apr 7 2023 3:00 utc | 108 Once the #Asov nazi regime is defeated in Ukraine and the American electioneering starts on a defeated and humiliated NATO military the repercussions will commence. Posted by: @timbo | Apr 7 2023 3:26 utc | 109
Posted by: Down South | Apr 7 2023 3:42 utc | 110 @ SattaMassaGana,§31: Posted by: MiniMo | Apr 7 2023 4:42 utc | 111 The new brigades supposedly formed by Nato are severely understrength compared to what is traditionally considered a mechanized brigade. While old ukro formations are depleted, new ones are formed and old ones just forgotten. Posted by: unimperator | Apr 7 2023 4:46 utc | 112 ▪️ Ukrainian formations once again shelled Donetsk agglomeration and other populated areas of the republic. Posted by: MiniMo | Apr 7 2023 4:46 utc | 113 @ unimperator | Apr 7 2023 4:46 utc | 111
Concur, sans the entertaining part. Any chance you’ll cease abusing this forum to launch/document puerile personal attacks on offsite entities ? Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 6 2023 20:37 utc | 64 Posted by: unimperator | Apr 7 2023 5:34 utc | 115 @ Outraged, #30 Posted by: DakotaRog | Apr 7 2023 5:59 utc | 116
Posted by: Down South | Apr 7 2023 6:40 utc | 117
Posted by: Down South | Apr 7 2023 6:47 utc | 118
Posted by: Down South | Apr 7 2023 6:48 utc | 119
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/40722 Posted by: Down South | Apr 7 2023 6:50 utc | 120 @ Down South | Apr 7 2023 6:40 utc | 116
@ DakotaRog | Apr 7 2023 5:59 utc | 115 @ Outraged | Apr 7 2023 6:57 utc | 120 Posted by: too scents | Apr 7 2023 7:29 utc | 122 The United States so wants Russia to fall for the stuffing that the next step will be a package of documents at the door of the Russian Ministry of Defense with the inscription “Secret. US plans for Ukraine. Lost by accident.” Re: NATO+ glorious (sic) counter offensive in 2024 or 25 Posted by: Exile | Apr 7 2023 8:09 utc | 124 Things are going so well for Ukraine that S&P have just downgraded their credit rating further into the junk category, CCC+. Posted by: too scents | Apr 7 2023 8:22 utc | 125 👉👉👉 Ukrainian 46th Brigade assessment, Bakhmut. A good read. Posted by: unimperator | Apr 7 2023 8:34 utc | 126
The bigger news is it wasn’t already junk… Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 7 2023 8:37 utc | 127 🇺🇦☠ About Challenger 2 tanks in the Zaporozhye direction Posted by: unimperator | Apr 7 2023 8:39 utc | 128
Estonia is a NATO member, but they haven’t placed any missiles there yet. Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 7 2023 8:41 utc | 129 The Pentagon may have leaked classified documents about the state of the Ukrainian army – just before a potential “offensive” by the AFU Posted by: unimperator | Apr 7 2023 8:42 utc | 130 Posted by: sch | Apr 7 2023 3:00 utc | 107 Posted by: Response2 | Apr 7 2023 9:06 utc | 131 @ shadowbanned | Apr 7 2023 8:37 utc | 126 Posted by: too scents | Apr 7 2023 9:09 utc | 132 As I have previously posted on here at MoA, the siege of Leningrad from September 8, 1941, to January 27, 1944 a nazi cruelty which cost the lives of at least one million civilian Soviet citizens (ie women children & old men), nazi Germany provided the hammer driving these millions of innocents back but Finland provided the anvil in the form of an armed line across the entire peninsular Leningrad/St Petersburg sits upon. Posted by: Debsisdead | Apr 7 2023 9:10 utc | 133 Posted by: Response2 | Apr 7 2023 9:06 utc | 129 Posted by: Response2 | Apr 7 2023 9:18 utc | 134 @Down South 116 Posted by: AG | Apr 7 2023 9:42 utc | 135
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17196 Posted by: Down South | Apr 7 2023 9:50 utc | 136
https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/53212 Posted by: Down South | Apr 7 2023 9:55 utc | 137 Vladimir Pozner reflects, after year of silence… Posted by: Alex Vadim | Apr 7 2023 10:01 utc | 138 I was following yesterday the visits of Macron and Von de Leyen to Xi Jingpin in China. WTF? They used tax payer’s money just to go and meet Xi Jingping and warn him against any further alliance with Russia and to pressurise him to talk to Zelensky. Posted by: Jo Dominich | Apr 7 2023 10:06 utc | 139 A lot of talk about Ukraine’s coming spring offensive. Posted by: Et Tu | Apr 7 2023 10:10 utc | 140 Posted by: Jo Dominich | Apr 7 2023 10:06 utc | 137 Posted by: unimperator | Apr 7 2023 10:24 utc | 141 @Phariah | Apr 7 2023 0:30 utc | 97 Posted by: gT | Apr 7 2023 10:30 utc | 142 Posted by: Outraged | Apr 6 2023 15:07 utc | Posted by: Marvin | Apr 7 2023 10:34 utc | 143 Posted by: gT | Apr 7 2023 10:30 utc | 140 Posted by: Old Fart Legion | Apr 7 2023 10:53 utc | 144 Posted by: gT | Apr 7 2023 10:30 utc | 140 Posted by: unimperator | Apr 7 2023 10:57 utc | 145 Komsomolskaya Pravda features a story on Cossack volunteers, who belong to the division that hoisted the flag on the Reichstag in Berlin https://www.kp.ru/daily/27487/4744580/ Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Apr 7 2023 11:04 utc | 146 If one looks at the leak and the act of leaking as an indicator of the direction that events are moving in, the conclusion one comes to is that evidence is being progressively established that this is NOT a proxy war. Posted by: CitizenSmith | Apr 7 2023 11:08 utc | 147 @123 Posted by: Anthony | Apr 7 2023 11:14 utc | 148 Debsisdead | Apr 7 2023 9:10 utc | 131 Posted by: ZimZum | Apr 7 2023 11:33 utc | 149 Our source in the OP said that the Office of the President, together with the SBU / GUR / TsIPSO, is preparing a series of psychological operations that should cause panic in the Russian army. Posted by: rk | Apr 7 2023 11:37 utc | 150 @Anthony | Apr 7 2023 11:14 utc | 146 Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 7 2023 11:41 utc | 151 @Debsisdead | Apr 7 2023 9:10 utc | 131 Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 7 2023 11:43 utc | 152 ZimZum [147] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Apr 7 2023 11:56 utc | 153 NATO come-back tour. Pure fantasy. It’s almost as if they are trying to get the Ukrainian’s to launch an offensive that is doomed to fail, end the war without few recriminations (plucky Ukrainians gave it their best shot, as did we) and extricate themselves from this mess. Posted by: jpc | Apr 7 2023 12:05 utc | 154 To Jo Dominich. “Macron and Von der Leyen warning China..” That is the media spin. Actually there are 30 French CEO’s with Macron, the media do not focus on that. It is maybe a last chance for Airbus to get a vital Chinese injection. It is one of the last industrial crown jewels France has after having sold off such a lot of them (Alshtom to the US etc.). Macron will be playing good cop and Von der Leyen in a separate show bad cop. But the media will say that they represented a united EU front. Posted by: Teraspol | Apr 7 2023 12:10 utc | 155 … I just dunno what Finnish pols imagine they are doing, … Posted by: anon2020 | Apr 7 2023 12:22 utc | 156 And it seems they did salvage the US drone (which also might explain why it was downed in that peculiar way, not simply shot down), from Colonel Cassad: Posted by: Anthony | Apr 7 2023 12:25 utc | 157 Posted by: Milites | Apr 6 2023 15:58 utc | 12 Posted by: unimperator | Apr 7 2023 12:25 utc | 158 “United States has resumed the program for the construction of biological laboratories in Ukraine and is expanding the format for training Ukrainian biologists,” the Russian Defense Ministry said. Posted by: rk | Apr 7 2023 12:36 utc | 159 Posted by: unimperator | Apr 7 2023 12:25 utc | 156 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Apr 7 2023 13:04 utc | 160 Look how long the Finnish Air Force retained the swastika as its symbol, the swastika is still the insignia of the Finnish Air Force Academy. Finland’s military-political aristocrats know what they’re doing. Posted by: T.D. | Apr 7 2023 13:04 utc | 161 Teraspol [153] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Apr 7 2023 13:08 utc | 162 @Old Fart Legion | Apr 7 2023 10:53 utc | 142 Posted by: gT | Apr 7 2023 13:11 utc | 163 Gut check time: everything says ukraine and nato are going all in on the next offensive. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Apr 7 2023 13:37 utc | 164 Posted by: Jo Dominich | Apr 7 2023 10:06 utc | 137 Posted by: Aslangeo | Apr 7 2023 13:46 utc | 165 FWIW, from the three-letter agency NYT: Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 7 2023 14:07 utc | 166 Minimum, incomplete, low-ball KIA(only)(FEBA only) 374+ … Translated:
With so much talk going on about Finland, I’d like to ask this to Finnish residents (there’s at least Petri but probably more): Posted by: Konami | Apr 7 2023 14:16 utc | 168 @ shadowbanned, §102: Posted by: John Marks | Apr 7 2023 14:22 utc | 169 @162 Posted by: Anthony | Apr 7 2023 14:23 utc | 170 unimperator @ 114 Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Apr 7 2023 14:25 utc | 171 @16 Posted by: line islands | Apr 7 2023 14:25 utc | 172 @ MiniMo, §110: Posted by: John Marks | Apr 7 2023 14:28 utc | 173 #162 fact that Russian forces are not attacking 24/7 in the areas where troops for the counter-offensive are trained and materials are stored says a lot about what will happen when NATO will begin its attack. It is like the buildup to Gulf War 1 where allied forces were preparing at cannon range from Iraqi troops and they did nothing to disrupt preparations for the attack when a simple artillery barrage would have greatly delayed the offensive or (in case of heavy losses, like barracks destroyed when full of soldiers) even disrupted for good attack plans. I see now the same attitude in the Russian armed forces. Are they convinced of being defeated and so they are doing nothing with Slavic resignation? Posted by: mauro | Apr 7 2023 14:30 utc | 174 Reaper drone technical characteristics recovered
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/59436 Posted by: Norwegian | Apr 7 2023 14:36 utc | 175 Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 7 2023 14:07 utc | 164 Posted by: Chris | Apr 7 2023 14:40 utc | 176 The times that a Napoleon or Hitler could muster hundreds of thousands to march on Moscow is long gone (and let us be thankful for that). Posted by: Exile | Apr 7 2023 14:49 utc | 177 @ unipmerator 143 and @ gt 140 Posted by: stranger | Apr 7 2023 14:56 utc | 178 @ unimperator, §156: Posted by: John Marks | Apr 7 2023 14:58 utc | 179 “Did you learn about the Leningrad siege in school, including the role of the Finnish army and the humanitarian catastrophe? I am sure they teach kids about the Winter War but what about the Continuation War.” as ICBMs I’m not sure the Yars could even be used from Vyborg as they’d be pretty much going straight up and coming straight down. Posted by: rk | Apr 7 2023 15:13 utc | 181 Why not June, just in time to coincide with this? Posted by: jamesh | Apr 7 2023 15:14 utc | 182 Quote by military historian Gwynne Dyer: “it’s safe to say that the Ukrainians can no longer be decisively defeated.” Posted by: Mark Mosby | Apr 7 2023 15:24 utc | 183 Posted by: Mark Mosby | Apr 7 2023 15:24 utc | 181 Posted by: Christopher Peters | Apr 7 2023 15:34 utc | 184 @ Mark Mosby | Apr 7 2023 15:24 utc | 181 Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 7 2023 15:40 utc | 185 Apollyon @15: “My new favorite “Hide the pain”-meme: https://twitter.com/Spriter99880/status/1643596787423248386 “ Posted by: William Gruff | Apr 7 2023 16:00 utc | 186 I would like to elaborate. Posted by: stranger | Apr 7 2023 16:04 utc | 187 LightYearsFromHome | Apr 7 2023 14:25 said:
Yes, ALMOST straight up, and (LITTLE later) coming VERY straight down. Hint: See the last line of this post.
Dissociative shizoid bloviate as usual, more or less. Posted by: LongCovid | Apr 7 2023 16:05 utc | 188 I just made this site to my personal enemy, never have I read so much utter bullshit, raping history, denying others storys, and anyone whom is critical, not about the SMO witch is reasonable, but everything else, from arresting bloggers whom scums like you just aproved because Putin is an saint, and from now on, I will f… you back, and if this HasbaRat whom somehow, I bet he/she is Norwegian, only they hate Finns more than anyone else. Posted by: mikael | Apr 7 2023 16:09 utc | 189 Since the beginning of the war, BBC Russian has been tracking and trying to confirm the names of Russian soldiers killed in action. Posted by: Passerby | Apr 7 2023 16:17 utc | 190 Dennis Kucinich, a tough but idealistic little guy from Ohio, and an occasional presidential candidate — not exactly a team player — is calling for a congressional investigation of the Nord Stream bombings:
https://scheerpost.com/2023/04/06/the-bombing-of-nord-stream-this-act-of-war-against-europe-requires-congressional-investigation/ Posted by: Aleph_Null | Apr 7 2023 16:23 utc | 191 Posted by: mikael | Apr 7 2023 16:09 utc | 187 Posted by: lex talionis | Apr 7 2023 16:32 utc | 192 https://twitter.com/snekotron/status/1644158771155935233 Posted by: catdog | Apr 7 2023 16:36 utc | 193 Posted by: Mark Mosby | Apr 7 2023 15:24 utc | 181 Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Apr 7 2023 16:48 utc | 194 @Posted by: Mark Mosby | Apr 7 2023 15:24 utc | 181 Posted by: Mike314159 | Apr 7 2023 17:02 utc | 195 The Hakristi or Hooked Cross was the symbol of the Finnish Air Force long before the nazis took power in germany. It had nothing to do with the hitlerites.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_von_Rosen
Taking the Wikipedia timeline as accurate, von Rosen adopted the swastika for himself and it was via him that the Finnish Air Force adopted it, slightly before the Nazi Party did, but von Rosen himself became a Nazi, and Finland was deemed a wartime ally of Nazi Germany … (wiki) “As part of the Paris Peace Treaty, Finland was classified as an ally of Nazi Germany, bearing its responsibility for the war” Posted by: anon2020 | Apr 7 2023 17:09 utc | 196 @karlof1 #96:
Nezalezhnaya is another term for post-Soviet Ukraine. It’s not derogatory. It’s the same as “Heavenly Kingdom” for China, “Foggy Albion” for the UK, etc.—a neutral term. Nezalezhnaya is a Ukrainian adjective (in feminine gender form) that literally means “independent”. (The reason for the feminine gender is that Nezalezhnaya is a contraction of nezalezhnaya Ukrayina, that is, “independent Ukraine”, and the Ukrainian word Ukrayina is of feminine gender.) Occasionally, the term is used sarcastically, e.g., “the U.S. Ambassador told Nezalezhnaya that it must do this and that”—the sarcasm being that the country is not as “independent” as it likes to claim—but mostly it’s just another term for the Ukraine to avoid repeating “the Ukraine” throughout a text. Posted by: S | Apr 7 2023 17:16 utc | 197 Since the beginning of the war, BBC .. . publish fake death notices. Posted by: jamesh | Apr 7 2023 17:25 utc | 198 Posted by: lex talionis | Apr 7 2023 16:32 utc | 190 Posted by: Tim | Apr 7 2023 17:28 utc | 199 Posted by: unimperator | Apr 7 2023 12:25 utc | 158 Posted by: Milites | Apr 7 2023 18:22 utc | 200 |
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