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April 2, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-79
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
While I like Putin in his current sovietque antiimperialist mood, I aknowledge that there is much simple and little useful cheerleading between his die hard fans here in the bar. I welcome plurality of commentators. Glass half full dilemma. Hopefully dementia joe and the orange one destroy each other so the unlawful outlaw empire crumbles on its own leaving the Bandera-polish-the perfidious pirates league to be quickly subdued and forced back to humanity by the russkies. Posted by: Mariátegui | Apr 2 2023 20:59 utc | 101 re: AG | Apr 2 2023 20:06 utc | 92 Posted by: Steven Starr | Apr 2 2023 21:01 utc | 102 The targeted Tatarsky assassination is going around Ukie Twitter and it’s as disgusting as your woudl expect: Posted by: LGB! | Apr 2 2023 21:04 utc | 103 @karlof1 99 Posted by: AG | Apr 2 2023 21:08 utc | 104 “There’s life kilometres under the ground that doesn’t even need oxygen. And that fat jarhead named after a chocolate bar suffers from an incurable disability called “being american”. Posted by: Comandante | Apr 2 2023 21:10 utc | 105 not us! Posted by: AG | Apr 2 2023 21:17 utc | 106 That being said. I’m not sure where Ritter gets his 70% # from eventhough he says its gut feeling. Posted by: Comandante | Apr 2 2023 21:26 utc | 107 Time for a song … Jail-House Rock and the next POTUS … enjoy! Posted by: Don Firineach | Apr 2 2023 21:34 utc | 108 Well… since Kiev is safer than Moscow… Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 2 2023 21:35 utc | 109 Don F – That is fake news and you know it. POTUS47 is not going to jail for a misdemeanor. Fine at best. Posted by: LGB! | Apr 2 2023 21:35 utc | 110 Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 2 2023 20:47 utc | 99 Posted by: Milites | Apr 2 2023 21:46 utc | 111 Prigozhin just broke a prolongued silence, in honor of VladlEn Tatarsky, Artyomovsk-Bakhmut City Hall has been taken.
https://t.me/Prigozhin_hat/2978 Posted by: Paco | Apr 2 2023 21:48 utc | 112 The U.S won the cold war was the only superpower and had no need of nukes so how likely is it that the money for maintenance and upgrade of their nuclear arsenal was stolen and the U.S. had less nukes than Israel and therefore must bluff about first strike. The U.S. has thousands of nukes like it has 8 thousand tons of gold in Fort Knox that hasn’t been audited since the 1950’s. Posted by: NewWorldDisorder | Apr 2 2023 21:50 utc | 113 @Steven Starr 102 Posted by: AG | Apr 2 2023 21:58 utc | 114 @Steven Starr 102 Posted by: AG | Apr 2 2023 22:17 utc | 115
Great post, but I have hard time seeing how it would not have to go to fully automatic if hypersonics are situated at minutes flight away from critical targets, and that is what I have seen discussed on numerous occasions as a necessary next step. And if Kazakhstan gets flipped, which they will continue trying to do, and which will be much easier if Ukraine is not comprehensively defeated, then what other options are there? Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 2 2023 22:24 utc | 116 @LGB #110 Posted by: Don Firineach | Apr 2 2023 22:26 utc | 117 for who is interested – Posted by: AG | Apr 2 2023 22:28 utc | 118 DF- normally I am, but events lately got me on a hair-trigger. Apologies if I overreacted. I am well-positioned to ride out whatever comes next, so I am not worried so much about me and mine, but it has got me down that I am witnessing the end of the Republic. Be safe. Posted by: LGB! | Apr 2 2023 22:31 utc | 119 The following might be considered OT because advancing dedollarization will degrade the US capacity to make war. Posted by: hostebbe | Apr 2 2023 22:32 utc | 120 My head is spinning with all this talk of nuclear arm-a-geddon … albeit v. useful Posted by: Don Firineach | Apr 2 2023 22:34 utc | 121 @ unimperator | Apr 2 2023 20:09 utc | 94 hankster | Apr 2 2023 14:54 utc | 13 Posted by: Boris Badenov | Apr 2 2023 22:38 utc | 123 So thanks to the terrorist attack the newspapers now have a headline “Explosion in Sankt Petersburg” instead of “Ukraine loses Bakhmut”. Posted by: Passerby | Apr 2 2023 22:43 utc | 124 Jim Page – who wrote the song -: Hiroshima – Nagasaki Russian Roulette Posted by: Don Firineach | Apr 2 2023 22:43 utc | 125 @123 Posted by: Anthony | Apr 2 2023 22:48 utc | 126 @Steven Starr | Apr 2 2023 21:01 utc | 102 Posted by: Hermit | Apr 2 2023 22:51 utc | 127
Presumably the subs will be disabled in the minutes before the ICBM silos are hit. Poseidon’s real purpose might be that — not the scary cartoonish news reports about a nuclear megatsunami. Something like this: release near the ports where the SSBNs can be tracked (this happens a long time before the first strike), then have it follow them from a distance (it is much quieter than them as it is an UUV with no humans inside), then pounce when the time comes (it is also several times faster than the SSBNs so there will be no escape, and it doesn’t even have to detonate very close to them to destroy them with a warhead in the hundreds of megatons).
I have never seen this discussed explicitly, but at some point it dawned on me that the purpose of Sarmat maybe isn’t so much to evade missile defenses — US ABM doesn’t really work well, and even if it does, they have very few launchers in just a handful of locations and can be completely overwhelmed by a mass attack. If that wasn’t the case, presumably North Korea would have been attacked a long time ago.
In retrospect and with the benefit of hindsight (for outside observers, insider analysts should have been able to see through it), we were in big trouble from the moment the Cold War ended. That ensured the US would lose all restraints, and will eventually directly go after even Russia. Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 2 2023 22:53 utc | 128
There will be no alert on your phone. Most people will never even realize what has happened. Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 2 2023 22:56 utc | 129 @128 Posted by: paddy | Apr 2 2023 23:00 utc | 130 Posted by: hostebbe | Apr 2 2023 22:32 utc | 120 Posted by: alek_a | Apr 2 2023 23:01 utc | 131 “There will be no alert on your phone. Most people will never even realize what has happened.” Posted by: Comandante | Apr 2 2023 23:02 utc | 132
From НА МАРШЕ Z a few hours ago:
Forget about even what happened today. That Budanov is still alive after all the very specific threats and other outrageous statements he made regarding what he plans to do to Russia, tells you all you need to know about the way this war is fought. Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 2 2023 23:04 utc | 133 re: AG | Apr 2 2023 22:28 utc | 118 Posted by: Steven Starr | Apr 2 2023 23:06 utc | 134 Posted by: Passerby | Apr 2 2023 22:43 utc | 124 Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Apr 2 2023 23:07 utc | 135 “Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 2 2023 23:04 utc | 133” Posted by: Comandante | Apr 2 2023 23:09 utc | 136 Thanks for the replies. The Crooke/Napolitano interview is well worth the time and reveals a few Big Picture points. IMO, the main one is the treeing of the Empire, which is a term I haven’t used for several years and then it was in relation to its Syrian failure. Now, it’s the corralling of the Empire and its vassals into one small bloc relative to the RoW where it will be subjected to containment while its economy implodes. That Crooke compared the happenings within Occupied Palestine with the political dynamics within the Empire was somewhat surprising, although the main point he made was about the need for people to regain meaning in their lives, which means a return to traditional conservatism and rejection of berserk Woke Liberalism that’s approaching the level of fanaticism present in Ukraine. The credibility of US power in the eyes of its Islamist sycophants is at an all time low. Erdogan has jacked. Saudi Arabia and Gulf states have jacked. Iran and Iraq have jacked. Pakistan and India have jacked. Posted by: Giyane | Apr 2 2023 23:10 utc | 138 “Prigozhin just broke a prolongued silence, in honor of VladlEn Tatarsky, Artyomovsk-Bakhmut City Hall has been taken.” Posted by: Dalit | Apr 2 2023 23:11 utc | 139
Soviets built bunkers everywhere (it’s also why the war is so hard for Russia now — they have to fight against their own Soviet-era defenses). Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 2 2023 23:12 utc | 140
Good for them. But Ukraine is a terrorist state, and it has no intention of playing by any rules. Did you miss what happened with Dugina, today with Tatarsky, and all the terror bombing of civilians, and not just in the Donbass, but on any territory Ukraine used to hold even shortly before that (and thus presumably **their own citizens**)? Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 2 2023 23:18 utc | 141 Artyomovsk-Bakhmut City Hall has been taken. Posted by: Longhorn | Apr 2 2023 23:19 utc | 142 @ Posted by: Chris | Apr 2 2023 15:21 utc | 17 Posted by: BroncoBilly | Apr 2 2023 23:23 utc | 144 “Wagner chief declares ‘Artemovsk captured’ says RT.com. Evgeny Prigozhin dedicated the “formal” seizure of the key Donbass city to a killed Russian war blogger.” Posted by: William White | Apr 2 2023 23:25 utc | 145 AG # 118 Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Apr 2 2023 23:33 utc | 146 70% chance of a nuclear war…lol. How many of you have sunk that far? There will be no war. The US economy looks fantastic. Markets do not want to go down. Inflation is under control. Volatility is low. Russians do not invest in Russia. Russians invest in US markets. Everybody invests in US markets. The US is the center of the world. Sucks, but it isn’t changing anytime soon and you will only be miserable if you try to fight it. Posted by: Valid Point | Apr 2 2023 23:34 utc | 147 I think 70% chance of a nuclear war isn’t an unreasonable prediction. I’d say more like 55%-60%. The collapsing empire is desperate and increasingly unhinged. I don’t think they will allow Ukraine to lose without at least trying a no-fly zone and a no-fly zone leads to nuclear war. Posted by: DaemosAerothaine | Apr 2 2023 23:41 utc | 148
Everyone who “lives off markets” or any kind of “investment income” (euphemism for speculation) must be physically exterminated and erased off the face of the planet if the species is to survive. Posted by: shadowbanned | Apr 2 2023 23:42 utc | 149 @ alek_a #131 Posted by: Don Firineach | Apr 2 2023 23:43 utc | 150 “not Putin. Posted by: Comandante | Apr 2 2023 23:44 utc | 151 @ unimperator, #94 Posted by: DakotaRog | Apr 2 2023 23:46 utc | 152 A terrorist attack on a riverfront bar in st Petersburg. Posted by: DunGroanin | Apr 2 2023 23:48 utc | 153 alek_a | Apr 2 2023 23:01 utc | 131 Posted by: hostebbe | Apr 2 2023 23:50 utc | 155 FREE DRINKS AT THE BAR…..FREE DRINKS AT THE BAR…..FREE DRINKS AT THE BAR…..FREE DRINKS AT THE BAR…..FREE DRINKS AT THE BAR…..FREE DRINKS AT THE BAR…..FREE DRINKS AT THE BAR…..FREE DRINKS AT THE BAR….. Posted by: HERMIUS | Apr 2 2023 23:51 utc | 156 DakotaRog- and if he wasn’t already, last week’s events sealed 47 for him. Posted by: LGB! | Apr 2 2023 23:56 utc | 157 Hermius @157. Now this is really good news! The work put in by Wagner PMC is inestimable. I love Preghorzin! BTW mine’s a very, humungously large Scotch and American Dry with some olives as an accompaniment!! Posted by: Jo Dominich | Apr 3 2023 0:04 utc | 158 @151 “Newsflash. Americans have taken out about 150 billion dollars oit of bank deposits this weekend alone.” Posted by: dh | Apr 3 2023 0:05 utc | 159 “Lol, so after 8 months of fighting and tens of thousands dead, Wagner took City Hall? Do you have any idea how pathetic that statement is? The stupid, it hurts. Posted by: JustTruth | Apr 3 2023 0:07 utc | 160 Posted by: Jo Dominich | Apr 3 2023 0:04 utc | 158 Posted by: HERMIUS | Apr 3 2023 0:10 utc | 161 @Passerby Posted by: Chris | Apr 3 2023 0:14 utc | 162 @ LGB1 #157 Posted by: DakotaRog | Apr 3 2023 0:20 utc | 163 They will not be able to cover up 130 MILLION + votes this time around. We the People are pissed and the DS is about to get to the FO part of FAFO. Posted by: LGB! | Apr 3 2023 0:23 utc | 164 “Newsflash. Americans have taken out about 150 billion dollars oit of bank deposits this weekend alone. Posted by: DakotaRog | Apr 3 2023 0:31 utc | 165 Sorry dh #159, I left out your by-line on my last post Posted by: DakotaRog | Apr 3 2023 0:32 utc | 166 We are not far off from that moment. Posted by: K | Apr 3 2023 0:32 utc | 167 Prigozhin just broke a prolongued silence,… Posted by: Melaleuca | Apr 3 2023 0:35 utc | 168 DakotaRog @ 166 Posted by: dh | Apr 3 2023 0:40 utc | 169 Good news day Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Apr 3 2023 0:45 utc | 170 Jo Dominich@158 HERMIUS@161 Posted by: bevin | Apr 3 2023 1:12 utc | 172 JustTruth@ 160 Posted by: bevin | Apr 3 2023 1:14 utc | 173 @dh, #166 Posted by: DakotaRog | Apr 3 2023 1:15 utc | 174 hostebbe@120 Posted by: bevin | Apr 3 2023 1:31 utc | 175 Big News? Posted by: bevin | Apr 3 2023 1:34 utc | 176 #159 Posted by: Dingo | Apr 3 2023 1:46 utc | 177 DakotaRog @ 174. Posted by: dh | Apr 3 2023 1:48 utc | 178 Dingo @177 That sounds like a transfer from one account to another not a withdrawal. Commandante sparked my interest with post 151 but he seems to have gone quiet. Posted by: dh | Apr 3 2023 1:54 utc | 179 I never bother to check as it would be such a negative task; tho I cannot help but wonder if those so-called supporters of the Russia/Donbas/Luhansk team who pollute these pages with links to dead ukie soldiers and hugely celebrate ukie casualties are one and the same as those who are currently bemoaning the speed that the Russia/Donbas/Luhansk team are advancing. Posted by: Debsisdead | Apr 3 2023 2:11 utc | 180 Arty laid mines are the issue now. The region is under 24/7 NATO C4ISR which makes building up any forces very difficult. You can’t clear the mines faster than they can lay them and you can’t clear mines under fire. Posted by: liveload | Apr 3 2023 2:43 utc | 181 “Lol, so after 8 months of fighting and tens of thousands dead, Wagner took City Hall? Do you have any idea how pathetic that statement is? The stupid, it hurts. Posted by: Surferket | Apr 3 2023 2:49 utc | 182 Posted by: NewWorldDisorder | Apr 2 2023 21:50 utc | 113 Posted by: Organic | Apr 3 2023 2:59 utc | 183
Posted by: Down South | Apr 3 2023 3:17 utc | 184 @ valid point 147 Posted by: Giyane | Apr 3 2023 3:50 utc | 185 Re the murder of V Tatarsky, St Petersburgers are bringing flowers in tribute (Telegram link). Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Apr 3 2023 3:55 utc | 186 The ICC versus OPEC? I wrote about it. These crappy San Francisco Karens I have the misery to be around think they’re so cute. What’s going to happen when Putin SWATs them? Posted by: Debsisdead | Apr 3 2023 2:11 utc | 180 Posted by: _newbie_ | Apr 3 2023 4:14 utc | 188 @156. Well it’ll be a bit before the west part can be taken. Best not to get ahead of yourself. Getting ones hopes dashed is tough and ukraine has forces in the area and better artillery in range of the west,and russia will need to loiter some munitions to find them. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Apr 3 2023 4:32 utc | 189 Ritter’s opinion about inevitability of Nuclear conflict is viable I think.. Posted by: Marvin | Apr 3 2023 4:51 utc | 190 dh | Apr 3 2023 0:05 utc | 159 Posted by: Boris Badenov | Apr 3 2023 5:11 utc | 191 Biswapriya Purkayast | Apr 3 2023 3:55 utc | 186 Posted by: Melaleuca | Apr 3 2023 5:12 utc | 192 @ Marvin 190 Posted by: Giyane | Apr 3 2023 5:18 utc | 193 @Valid Point #147 Posted by: OohCanada | Apr 3 2023 5:35 utc | 194 Posted by: Outraged | Apr 2 2023 22:37 utc | 122 Posted by: Old Fart Legion | Apr 3 2023 5:42 utc | 195 @ newbie 188 Posted by: Giyane | Apr 3 2023 5:47 utc | 196 I am reading the Wagner has raised a flag in Bakhmut and Z is saying it is a stunt Posted by: psychohistorian | Apr 3 2023 6:16 utc | 197 #197 Posted by: Dingo | Apr 3 2023 6:48 utc | 198 Twitter: Trollstoy Posted by: Melaleuca | Apr 3 2023 6:55 utc | 199 Twitter: Trollstoy Posted by: Melaleuca | Apr 3 2023 6:55 utc | 200 |
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