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April 30, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-103
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Posté par : Apollyon | 30 avril 2023 21:45 UTC | 85 Posted by: la bouteille | Apr 30 2023 23:06 utc | 101 @ malenkov | Apr 30 2023 22:46 utc | 97 Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 30 2023 23:10 utc | 102 Trump sold weapons to Ukraine. Even Obama didn’t. We all hate Sleepy Joe but let’s not re-write history. Posted by: Gengar | Apr 30 2023 23:15 utc | 103 Posted by: Gengar | Apr 30 2023 23:15 utc | 104 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Apr 30 2023 23:17 utc | 104 Hey guys, Biden stole the last election so I wouldn’t worry about what Trump may or may not do. Even if he gets allies and keeps the election open he’s going to get killed. They’ve already trashed and rigged the justice system next step is murder. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Apr 30 2023 23:19 utc | 105 @ Gengar | Apr 30 2023 23:15 utc | 104 Posted by: Don Bacon | Apr 30 2023 23:20 utc | 106 Trump continued and escalated sanction regimes. Trump closed the Seattle consulate. Millions to modernize Ukraines Navy. Posted by: Gengar | Apr 30 2023 23:23 utc | 107 Lev Davidovich | Apr 30 2023 14:44 utc | 2 Posted by: Melaleuca | Apr 30 2023 23:25 utc | 108 Seems many have ignored the info contained in my comment @42 citing Escobar’s evidence of China’s involvement with Ukraine in the early BRI days. So, the 2014 coup did more than just create an Anti-Russia, although Ukie-China trade went onward until SMO began. Given the escalation of animosity toward China that Trump initiated, negating China’s connection with Europe via Ukraine by initiating a war with Russia was likely another plus feature seen by Neocons. China’s trade with Europe has dipped, but it’s hard to pin the reason for that as there’re several variables beginning with Covid. IMO, the Southern route to Europe will be the only open road for China-Europe trade for at least the next 10 years, although that’s very likely to decrease because of Europe’s economic decline. Posted by: la bouteille | Apr 30 2023 23:06 utc | 102 Posted by: Chris | Apr 30 2023 23:43 utc | 110 Gengar | Apr 30 2023 23:23 utc | 108– More bombers have been launched including TU-160, in addition to the first salvo. Seems like blood in the water now, air defense has evaporated. Now the front lines are getting also hit, which means ukro’s must have committed large concentrations on the front. Posted by: unimperator | Apr 30 2023 23:54 utc | 112 Ken Tucky @ 4 Posted by: Seer | May 1 2023 0:28 utc | 113 unimperator | Apr 30 2023 23:54 utc | 113 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 1 2023 0:37 utc | 114 Posted by: karlof1 | Apr 30 2023 23:39 utc | 110 Posted by: Wisco | May 1 2023 0:38 utc | 115 Some videos for today. Posted by: Nate | May 1 2023 0:40 utc | 116 79 or next option .india is left alone as usa still sees some hope to sway them to the fold. india is the last great power on the fence and to be harsh on it and force the side it chooses is game over. once india become BRICS hegemony is onto the wake as burial is complete Posted by: hankster | May 1 2023 0:42 utc | 117 “Ukrainian monitoring channels report that 6 Tu-95MS missile carriers carried out missile launches, after which a command was given to restart.” Posted by: unimperator | May 1 2023 0:44 utc | 118 Seems many have ignored the info contained in my comment @42 citing Escobar’s evidence of China’s involvement with Ukraine in the early BRI days. Posted by: Zet | May 1 2023 0:59 utc | 119 Regarding the Prigozhin interview–about a month ago I listened to an interview on Paul Jay’s theanalysis.com website with Boris Kagarlitsky, a Russian who does not support Putin (he’s been arrested by just about every Russian govt since Gorbachev). He said the Russian military and intelligence are against the war, would like it to end, and want to undermine the Wagner Group. Here’s a link to the interview. The discussion of the Russian military starts around 14 minutes in. I have no idea what’s going on, so I try to listen to various, disparate voices and note when opposite voices agree on a point. In short, Prigozhin might be speaking the truth. Posted by: Maybe | May 1 2023 1:07 utc | 120 This is what happens when Russia runs out of missiles … Not! Posted by: Just Observing | May 1 2023 1:23 utc | 121 Just realized it’s May Day. Maybe it’s just fireworks. Posted by: Just Observing | May 1 2023 1:24 utc | 122 Dferg | Apr 30 2023 20:13 utc | 63 Posted by: young | May 1 2023 1:26 utc | 123 Hal Turner reporting that up to two(2) whole divisions of Ukrainian formations have been destroyed in the latest strikes. Posted by: LtGen_Breedluvv | May 1 2023 1:27 utc | 124 For the NAFO trolls who claimed the Russians have made no progress on Bakhmut here’s a time lapse by a Ukie channel. Posted by: Surferket | May 1 2023 1:27 utc | 125 It seems that the US media are now fully controlled by the Government. The Carlson firing removed the last gadfly who might embarrass the emperor by mentioning his lack of clothing. Posted by: Chris | May 1 2023 1:31 utc | 126 @LGB! | May 1 2023 1:07 utc | 125 Posted by: the pessimist | May 1 2023 1:36 utc | 127 Kinzhal carriers have taken off, more EW disturbance measure, more bombing runs underway. Missiles heading toward Kiev. Will we here about another Nato bunker busting operation soon? Posted by: unimperator | May 1 2023 1:41 utc | 128 @LGB! | May 1 2023 1:07 utc | 125 Posted by: the pessimist | May 1 2023 1:45 utc | 129 Since Ukraine seems to still have functioning air defense at least in Dnepro and Kiev, maybe it’s a continuation of SEAD campaign. Posted by: unimperator | May 1 2023 1:53 utc | 130 Dferg @ 63 Posted by: young | May 1 2023 1:57 utc | 131 LGB! | May 1 2023 0:39 utc | 119 Posted by: olaf22 | May 1 2023 2:02 utc | 132 @olaf22 | May 1 2023 2:02 utc | 140 Posted by: the pessimist | May 1 2023 2:07 utc | 133
Wagner is a creation of the GRU (the military intelligence). In the FSB (the civilian intelligence) they might be against the war, but there is definitely a very strong patriotic faction in the military. It is far from being in control of everything though, which is why the effort has been sabotaged to such an unimaginable when all this started extent. Posted by: shadowbanned | May 1 2023 2:10 utc | 134 the pessimist | May 1 2023 2:07 utc | 141 Posted by: olaf22 | May 1 2023 2:24 utc | 135 from The Guardian Posted by: Don Bacon | May 1 2023 2:26 utc | 136 Young @ 139 – It would be easier to just read up Psalms 83 and realize that the descendants of Assyria are the Germans, and that the nations listed there are all the men who lost their birthright or connection to the 12 tribes. Better if you read Daniel 11:40, which speaks about the upcoming King of the North, (HRE) being pushed by the King of the South. Posted by: Arcticman | May 1 2023 2:27 utc | 137 Posted by: Maybe | May 1 2023 1:07 utc | 126 Posted by: theo | May 1 2023 2:29 utc | 138 karlof1 | Apr 30 2023 23:39 utc | 110 Posted by: Melaleuca | May 1 2023 2:40 utc | 139 Posted by: Maybe | May 1 2023 1:07 utc | 126 Posted by: theo | May 1 2023 2:47 utc | 140 We may not know the targets until the MoD of Russia issue it’s report. I hope they were military ones near the front. It is possible Russia went for a knockout blow to destroy any remaining counteroffensive hope. Posted by: Chris | May 1 2023 2:47 utc | 141 Ukranazistan is getting pasted right now by missile barrages from TU95MS bombers. Especially something big has been struck in Pavlograd. Allegedly a big S300 missile depot. Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 1 2023 2:58 utc | 142 @147 motor sich. It’s been bombed a few times, supposedly put out of commission after ukraine arrested its president for treason for selling the engines through the middle east to russia. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | May 1 2023 3:02 utc | 143 I now vaguely recall China purchasing some major Ukrainian industry? An aviation manufacturer? Posted by: Passerby | May 1 2023 3:09 utc | 144 Worst piece of coping I saw on Twitter – some fool claims Patriot missiles were used for AD for first time. Posted by: Chris | May 1 2023 3:10 utc | 145 Looks like a busy day heading into May 1st. Major airstrikes in progress. Melaleuca | May 1 2023 2:40 utc | 147 & Passerby Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 1 2023 3:27 utc | 147 i wonder if prigozhin is being prepped, perhaps without his knowledge, to challenge putin. after all, he is an oligarch, or at least that’s what i’ve read. i imagine putin is keeping an eye on him. Posted by: polarbear4 | May 1 2023 4:02 utc | 148 so much trump on here. Posted by: polarbear4 | May 1 2023 4:14 utc | 149 Pepe Escobar links to this report from Prigozhin. He ain’t happy and assures us that time will tell REAL SOON. I doubt that Prigozhin is a concern troll yet he does harp on a lot about this issue:
Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 1 2023 4:23 utc | 150
Prigozhin isn’t really an oligarch, or he is a second-class oligarch if you insist on calling him that — the really major Russian oligarchs have one to two orders of magnitude more wealth than he has. Posted by: shadowbanned | May 1 2023 4:34 utc | 151 Apologies for my #158 post on Prigozhin, I see it was posted much earlier. Fascinating times we live in 😉 Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 1 2023 4:40 utc | 152 Whether Prigozhin‘s real business is catering or crime remains to be seen. No doubt the Putin Crowd know him from St Petersburg days and whatever rackets require a catering front to launder funds is known to them. Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 1 2023 5:02 utc | 153
Posted by: Down South | May 1 2023 5:09 utc | 154
Posted by: Down South | May 1 2023 5:11 utc | 155
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/44027 Posted by: Down South | May 1 2023 5:14 utc | 156 Yes, Trump practiced Outlaw US Empire style Imperialism globally. He just didn’t initiate any aggressive wars unlike all his post-WW2 predecessors. Posted by: Drinky Crow | May 1 2023 5:29 utc | 157 I forgot to ad that I hope he chokes to death on a Big Mac soon. Posted by: Drinky Crow | May 1 2023 5:45 utc | 158 @Apollyon | Apr 30 2023 21:45 utc | 85
Looks like desinformation
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/59120 Posted by: Norwegian | May 1 2023 5:50 utc | 159
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/44015 Posted by: Norwegian | May 1 2023 6:05 utc | 160
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/44019 Posted by: Norwegian | May 1 2023 6:08 utc | 161 From Reuters
Posted by: psychohistorian | May 1 2023 6:17 utc | 162 @psychohistorian | May 1 2023 6:17 utc | 170
That is a very modest claim. I suspect all the missiles were destroyed by their targets. Posted by: Norwegian | May 1 2023 6:28 utc | 163 People say trump didn’t start a war ! Posted by: Mark2 | May 1 2023 6:36 utc | 164 The psychology of the Ukraine war. Posted by: Paul-Robert | May 1 2023 6:42 utc | 165
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17539 Posted by: Down South | May 1 2023 6:57 utc | 166 (Suvrokin is husbanding ammo …) Astute comment. Posted by: anon2020 | May 1 2023 6:58 utc | 167 “Prigozhin has specifically stated …” Posted by: Nomad | May 1 2023 7:14 utc | 168 Pepe Escobar provides a different interpretation of the Xi/Zelensky phone call, “What China Is Really Playing at in Ukraine”. Posted by: Marvin | May 1 2023 7:18 utc | 169 Posted by: uncle tungsten | May 1 2023 4:23 utc | 158 Posted by: rk | May 1 2023 7:33 utc | 170 Chronicle of strikes and mutual shelling in the SMO zone during the night from April 30 to May 1, 2023 Posted by: unimperator | May 1 2023 7:37 utc | 171 uncle tungsten | May 1 2023 4:23 utc | 158 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 1 2023 7:39 utc | 172 Hi folks, have you noticed an increase in troll concerns re Prigozhin’s alleged attacks on the RF forces? Interestingly, none of these allegations have been picked up by the usual Russian commentators that haven’t held back previously, so I’m inclined to be it’s typical NAFO bullshit. Posted by: Suresh | May 1 2023 7:43 utc | 173 guardian runs a article today showing a funeral from the ukraine s300 air defence that hit the apartment complex the other day. has a whole story of the human grief as it claims it was a russian missile that targeted civilians. all the while crickets on the real donbass civilians targeted daily. these western liars deserve everything coming to them and i will be cheering the monoliths demise Posted by: hankster | May 1 2023 7:52 utc | 174 Paul Greenwood | May 1 2023 5:02 utc | 161 Posted by: Peter AU1 | May 1 2023 7:59 utc | 175 If that were correct, than China, Blackrock, Monsanto, Cargill should be talking to Moscow rather than Kiev. Anybody interested in making money in Ukraine should be more interested in ending the shooting than in who to deal with for setting up their business Posted by: rk | May 1 2023 8:04 utc | 176
Posted by: Apollyon | May 1 2023 8:31 utc | 177 171 – Yes, like blocking a kick by using your rib cage. Posted by: Waldorf | May 1 2023 8:50 utc | 178 Interesting point Noam, namely that the USA were unjustified in invading Iraq. Posted by: Noam A. Larkey | May 1 2023 8:51 utc | 179 “There was no justification for the US in Iraq just as there is no justification for what Russia is doing in Ukraine.” Posted by: Apollyon | May 1 2023 9:01 utc | 180 Posted by: Mark2 | May 1 2023 6:36 utc | 172 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | May 1 2023 9:18 utc | 181 Probably beating a dead horse, but Military summary channel said that Ukraine was probably trying to transfer the new Nato brigades from the vicinity of Poltava on rails through Pavlograd and Sinkovka to the front line. They have already transferred 1 of 15 or whatever mech brigades there. So Russia hit Pavlograd. Posted by: unimperator | May 1 2023 9:20 utc | 182 Russia being one step behind as usual, have not even take measures to secure the railroad carrying cargo to the front after 14 months of war! Or matter of fact of 9 years of war! What did I tell you… Posted by: Zeron | May 1 2023 9:42 utc | 183
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17541 Posted by: Down South | May 1 2023 9:43 utc | 184 @Noam A. Larkey Posted by: Apollyon | May 1 2023 9:45 utc | 185
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17544 Posted by: Down South | May 1 2023 9:45 utc | 186
https://t.me/rezident_ua/17543 Posted by: Down South | May 1 2023 9:47 utc | 187 https://strategic-culture.org/news/2023/04/30/last-offensive-of-kiev-regime/ Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 1 2023 9:53 utc | 188 @165 Drinky Crow Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 1 2023 9:59 utc | 189 Shadowbanned @159 is of course correct: the Russian conduct in this conflict is explicable only in terms of protecting the oligarchs’ business interests in Ukranazistan. From 2014 to the time Surovikin began hitting the infrastructure, it was all primarily oriented towards protecting the oligarchs’ profits. Even now the Ukranazi electric infrastructure hasn’t been totally eliminated and Lukoil’s refinery in Bulgaria feeds Ukranazistan with its fuel, which is used to fight Russia. What can you make out of that? Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 1 2023 10:07 utc | 190 Thanks RSH @ 189 Posted by: Mark2 | May 1 2023 10:18 utc | 191
Posted by: Down South | May 1 2023 10:37 utc | 192
Posted by: Down South | May 1 2023 10:41 utc | 193
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/44102 Posted by: Down South | May 1 2023 10:45 utc | 194 Posted by: Down South | May 1 2023 10:37 utc | 200 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | May 1 2023 10:45 utc | 195 polarbear4 @ 156
This is historically what happens when you build a special elite corps not as part of the military but within it but apart. However, Wagner is still far from a Praetorian Guard and I really doubt this scenario will be at play here. If Russia falters at the coming western offensive then who knows, Russia does have a history of turbulent rule in crises. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 1 2023 10:50 utc | 196 Biswapriya Purkayast | May 1 2023 9:53 utc | 196:
Ah, but you’re wrong! I’ver heard from a “reliable source” (DW! lol) that Germany is supplying the Ukraine with “stealth kayaks”! Just visualize it if you can: a hundred thousand angry ter-bots furiously paddling across the Dnieper, seemingly levitating above the water due to the invisibility of their kayaks! Oh, the horror! Those Russians will surely flee in terror! Posted by: William Gruff | May 1 2023 10:59 utc | 197 Down South @ 201
The neoliberal, digital economy wet dream: all the engineering, design, and construction, can be contracted out by a private equity, zero liability, shell corporation. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | May 1 2023 11:03 utc | 198
Source: https://sonar21.com/some-follow-up-analysis-on-jack-teixeira-and-evan-gershkovich/ Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 1 2023 11:04 utc | 199 @William Gruff 205 Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | May 1 2023 11:08 utc | 200 |
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