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The MoA Week In Review – (Not Ukraine) OT 2023-85
Last week's post on Moon of Alabama:
— Other issues:
Empire:
Ukraine:
Signs of the time:
The Island:
Use as open (not Ukraine related) thread …
@nathan in WA US | Apr 12 2023 0:01 utc | 189
@malenkov | Apr 11 2023 23:12 utc | 188
“I said nothing about being ‘forced'”
If it is not forced, then it is optional, so just avoid it instead of making a fuss.
“You are sidestepping the fact that it is inappropriate for children.”
Not at all. You have already stipulated that it is the parent’s choice, so unless you are changing your mind about that, you don’t get to make that determination for any children but your own.
“How convenient for you to compare it to violence and murder to deflect the core point I’m making – it is clearly inappropriate.”
I agree that violence and murder are clearly inappropriate – and not just for children. So why are you not focused on that, rather than being upset about non-issues like, entirely optional “drag shows or gay parades”?
“I’ve seen with my own eyes over the years how the exposure of children to adult-themed shit by careless parents has obviously gotten worse.”
Then don’t be a careless parent. The evidence is compelling that actual violence is an actual problem, in comparison to your surmised and inarticulable dangers of entirely optional “drag shows or gay parades”. The reality in the USA is that:
At least 1 in 7 children have experienced child abuse and/or neglect in the past year, and this is likely an underestimate. In 2019, 1,840 children died of abuse and neglect in the United States.
Each day, more than 1,000 youth are treated in emergency departments for physical assault-related injuries.
In 2019, about 1 in 5 high school students reported being bullied on school property in the last year.
8% of high school students had been in a physical fight on school property one or more times during the 12 months before the survey.
Each day, about 14 youth die from homicide, and more than 1,300 are treated in emergency departments for violence-related injuries.
Again these are real issues requiring a response. Entirely optional “drag shows or gay parades” are not actually an issue at all. If you prefer to ensure that your children be shocked and stunned when they eventually discover that these things exist and are a thing, possibly being traumatized by the experience, that is your choice. It doesn’t sound sensible to me, but as long as abuse is not involved, knock yourself out
As malenkov sensibly pointed out, when children are introduced to the world cautiously, by careful parents or trained educators who do not become hysterical, nothing non-violent need be an issue. Let me provide examples.
Appropriate reaction:
Daddy, daddy, what are you doing to mommy?
We are making a baby sibling darling.
Daddy, daddy, turn mommy over at once! I don’t want a sibling, I want puppies.
… Child returns quietly to bed and drops off back to sleep. No trauma.
Inappropriate reaction
Daddy, daddy, what are you doing to mommy?
Mommy scream “You forgot to lock the door and now our child is traumatized for life.”
Daddy, “Locking the door is your responsibility idiot!” Bitchslaps Mommy upside the head.
Both parents scream at the child, who stays awake all night wondering if the family is going to break-up and wondering what they did wrong but knowing that everything is their fault. Lifelong trauma ensues.
Lacking any support, I don’t know what you saw at the entirely optional “drag shows or gay parades” you elected to attend, which children participated, where you took part in them, or even if you can substantiate your claims, but anecdotes are not evidence of anything, not even alleged trauma. For that you need research. A good place to begin is how well adjusted each generation is, and GenX tend to be far better adjusted than prior generations despite US leaving them, broke, living on their parents and grand-parents pensions and income, with a fucked planet and dubious future. We know that privacy, including separate rooms and even beds is a very recent concept, which means that every human before the modern age experienced “adult-themed shit” without incapacitating trauma despite a total lack of educators and therapists to resolve any issues resulting from this. Studies reflect that Soviet citizens were veru well adjusted, even though communal family life completely lacking in privacy, which meant that many lived through “adult-themed shit” including sex, alcohol abuse and physical violence probably because they had effective therapeutic support and were taught self-criticism, both of which being largely inaccessible in the US, except for children in public schools who have limited access to psychologists.
Studies show that the worst traumatic damage is not done by non-violent experiences, but by family and social reactions, which cue children into how to respond to things. Access to psychiatric and psychological support and trained trauma councillors can prevent debilitating reactions that can result in long term effects. In other words, a critical part of children’s recovery is having a supportive caregiving system, access to effective treatments, and service systems that are trauma informed. This is significantly more important than avoiding “drag shows or gay parades”, but I don’t see Americans insisting on this. Instead, they appear to be hysterical about entirely optional “drag shows or gay parades”. This is not a mystery. Incessant streams of propaganda are directed at the population about the imaginary and inarticulable threats from entirely optional “drag shows or gay parades” in order to distract and divide by terrifying, horrifying and annoying the susceptible population.
“Sure it’s the parent’s choice,
Yes, it is. You have stipulated to that.
what great results we’re seeing.”
I’m not sure to what you are referring to by that. Better adjusted children, yes, we are seeing that. Increased chaos, we are seeing that too. In both cases, multi-variate analysis would be required to distinguish cause and effect. Do you even know what that is, let alone possess evidence reflecting that it has been undertaken, yielding these results?
Posted by: Hermit | Apr 12 2023 20:21 utc | 219
@nathan in WA US | Apr 13 2023 22:24 utc | 232
I am not “deflecting and re-directing” in the slightest. You are. My focus is on ensuring that children are not harmed and neither their rights, nor their parents rights are infringed.
Nobody is doing what you claim. Children diagnosed as gender dysphoric deserve just as much love, care, acceptance, assistance and potentially treatment as anyone else, or more, because they are many, many times more likely to suffer from depression and a much higher rate of suicide. If their parents refuse to help them, for whatever reasons, should society deny the help these children need, even when we know that the likely outcome of denial is suicide? As I explained earlier, gender dysphoria is caused by genetic and epigenetic factors. It tends to be expressed between 4 and 8 years of age, although in some cases it is not articulated or recognized till later. When diagnosed, it is very likely that the dysphoric brain will show the characteristic MRI activity of the sex they feel they are. This makes it very unlikely that the condition can be managed without transitional assistance, with all the challenges this implies, and it is extremely unlikely that gender dysphoria will resolve itself. Nevertheless, for most gender dysphoric children below 16 to 18, the recommended treatment is a puberty blocker. This delays the onset of puberty and delays the onset of secondary sexual characteristics. In the very unlikely event that a gender dysphoric child resolves their dysphoria, they can simply stop taking the blockers and development will continue normally as of it had never been interrupted.
Having repeatedly stipulated that it is the parent’s choice, you now want to make the parents guilty of bad judgement, presumably in order to claim yours is superior. That outhouse won’t fly!
Which part of it’s the parents choice whether their children see entirely optional “drag shows or gay parades”, which is what we were discussing, don’t you get? And what are we to make of your rapidly moving goalposts when you add “adult themed” to the question at this late stage, trying to force an answer in mid-flight that you could not support with any evidence at all. By doing that you attempt to impose the moral judgement you grew up with on others, which is always unacceptable.
Children are fine with other people, no matter how odd they seem, when their parents are. And tend to freak out only when their parents do. “Gender ideology” is your problem not children’s. Explaining the gender continuum, which is a thing everyone is on, and can be in more than one location, depending on place, partner, mood and time, to a four year old is easy. They will shrug, because it doesn’t matter to them. Clothing likewise.
Let me get a bit personal. My partner usually wears a kilt when we go out. My daughter explains the difference to children who ask why he is wearing “a skirt”. We have a balding trans-woman in our town that our daughter asked about when we first met her some 16 years ago. We explained sotto voce that she was born a man, but has the brain of a woman, which makes her life difficult. So she wears women’s clothes to make herself feel better. Our amazing daughter went directly over to her, introduced herself, gave her a big hug and told her that her dress was very pretty. Then we went on shopping. No fuss, no bother. To this day she still says hello to her.
She has friends across the spectrum, and it doesn’t bother her, because they are friends first, people second and their sexual orientation would only matter if she were considering going to bed with one or more of them. To me, brought up in a very strict household from a culture where talking to males outside of immediate family was severely frowned upon, and virginity de rigueur, she feels like a very well adjusted adult, sure of herself in a way I was not, and requiring appropriate etiquette in others. When she has a problem, she comes to her parents to discuss it, and when necessary we supply what she needs. That is, after all, what parents are for.
I would have moved to another country before accepting that somebody else should have the right to determine how I should have raised my child, or to have attempted to determine whether or not something, even a thing others might imagine was “adult themed”, was appropriate or inappropriate for her or me.
So in my opinion, your framing is your problem, not mine and definitely not my daughter’s. But I do pity any GSD children into which you come into contact until you have learned better, if indeed you do.
Posted by: Hermit | Apr 14 2023 6:59 utc | 233
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