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March 25, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-70
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
The first part of my chapter on the US US: The Terror Dream (1584 to 1776). Today’s Russian Defence Ministry ‘clobber list’: https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12461798@egNews
The tempo of recent days is being maintained. Good luck to those contemplating a counter-offensive, it will be needed… Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 25 2023 20:35 utc | 2 From Interfax (via Firefox Translate add-on): https://www.interfax.ru/russia/892914
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No worries really, the West does not yet have the aircraft to deliver 10’s of 1,000’s of shells. From 14 years ago: https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/case-against-a400m
A whole lot more can be dug out about the A400M transporter; I will just add that a friend of mine has been closely involved and has made enough overtime to bring forward his anticipated retirement date. Backwards and forwards between Bristol and Spain turned out to be quite lucrative! Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 25 2023 21:07 utc | 3 Would appreciate input from our distinguished barflies on the issue of potential fissures now perhaps visible between the US empire as a largely territorial entity gone global and the far older largely hereditary financialist cartels controlling Western governments and 3 successive empires–Spanish, British, US–largely through debt, currency manipulation, bribery, sedition, assassinations. Posted by: Paul Damascene | Mar 25 2023 21:07 utc | 4 Original Operation Z. Little known expediton by Russia into China and the South Pacific. Posted by: Wokechoke | Mar 25 2023 21:32 utc | 5 Novorossiysk. The elephant in the room that neither NATO nor Russia speak of in public, but which has been the real observation target for US drones (both air and sea, including under water) for the last year. Posted by: Novorossiysk | Mar 25 2023 21:38 utc | 6
Despite all the past months’ “clobberings”, the mighty Russian military still only controls the easternmost 1/8th of Ukraine. Pathetic. They should have steamrolled their way at least to Kiev by the end of spring 2022, no matter what gadgets NATO supplied to Kiev’s forces. Every day that this conflict goes on, Moscow looks more and more pathetic. Posted by: ReinhardVonSiegfried | Mar 25 2023 21:59 utc | 7
Posted by: ReinhardVonSiegfried | Mar 25 2023 21:59 utc | 6 Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 25 2023 22:12 utc | 8 They should have steamrolled their way at least to Kiev by the end of spring 2022 Posted by: Fred777 | Mar 25 2023 22:25 utc | 9 Russia continues to take big chunks of territory out of the heart of Bakhmut City (Artyomovsk). At the rate it is falling, Bakhmut will soon be known by its Russian name which is “Artyomovsk”. Posted by: young | Mar 25 2023 22:35 utc | 10 # 6 Posted by: Dingo | Mar 25 2023 22:38 utc | 11 Admittedly nitpicking the quote from #3, “I’m not even talking about aviation. There is a difference of 10 orders of magnitude, ” the Russian president said. Posted by: Dalit | Mar 25 2023 22:39 utc | 12 So….Zelensky just said no counter offensive without more western weapons?!?! Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 25 2023 22:49 utc | 13 While some continue to decide Russia for the strategic retreats of last year and now the slow advance, Russia has effectively destroyed at least two Ukrainian armies if not a third. More importantly, Russia has compelled NATO to “donate” not just all of its weapons from Soviet times but a growing percentage of its own weapons. The ammunition inventories of NATO have also been depleted. Russia has accomplished this while limiting its own casualties. Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Mar 25 2023 22:50 utc | 14 https://t.me/vysokygovorit/11123
Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 25 2023 22:51 utc | 15 Posted by: Dalit | Mar 25 2023 22:39 utc | 11 Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 25 2023 22:53 utc | 16 Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 25 2023 22:51 utc | 14 Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 25 2023 22:56 utc | 17 TRUMP 2024 Posted by: LGB! | Mar 25 2023 23:06 utc | 18 RF use of medium & heavy precision guided glide bombs ? Blockquotes translated as required.
Feb20’23
Mar24’23
Mar24’23
Mar24’23
Mar25’23
There are various designs & kits available, see ROSOBONRONEXPORT(Click Show More as needed), Models, Variants, Specs, PDFs, for arms export, non wartime mass-production displayed. Required to be ‘presentable’ at Arms Expos.
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Peace Posted by: LGB! | Mar 25 2023 23:06 utc | 17 Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 25 2023 23:15 utc | 20 Putin has said the decision to deploy nuclear missiles inside Belarus was, in part, motivated by UK’s decision to send DU munitions to Ukraine. Nice clean missiles versus little dirty bombs, it seems… Posted by: Aleph_Null | Mar 25 2023 23:21 utc | 21 Just replying to Neofeudalfuture above me. Not trying to derail things, but had the 2020 ‘selection’ not been stollen by the dems and their Chinese handlers, then there would be no war in Ukraine right now. Imma leave it at that. Posted by: LGB! | Mar 25 2023 23:22 utc | 22 Ukraine is a wheat producing country. The use of uranium bullets in Ukraine would be unfortunate; I do not wish to pass a Geiger counter over every slice of bread I eat. Posted by: Passerby | Mar 25 2023 23:28 utc | 23 Missiles and heavy bombs fall on the Ukraine rear lines. Posted by: la bouteille | Mar 25 2023 23:33 utc | 24 The tempo of recent days is being maintained. Good luck to those contemplating a counter-offensive, it will be needed… Posted by: Acco Hengst | Mar 25 2023 23:39 utc | 25 @ West of England Andy | Mar 25 2023 20:35 utc | 2
Cheers.
That was his way of wriggling out of yet another “red line”. The nukes in Belarus were decided on long before the DU shells became an issue, and have in all likelihood already been there for quite some time. But because RU made a big fuss about DU, which would then have meant Putin would have to finally find a pair of balls and actually do something that disrupts his own comfort and that of the oligarch class, he is now looking for ways to backtrack that don’t look too much like losing face. Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 26 2023 0:01 utc | 27 Posted by: Wokechoke | Mar 25 2023 21:32 utc | 4 Posted by: Acco Hengst | Mar 26 2023 0:05 utc | 28 Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 26 2023 0:01 utc | 26 Posted by: Boo | Mar 26 2023 0:11 utc | 29 Russia continues to take big chunks of territory out of the heart of Bakhmut City (Artyomovsk). At the rate it is falling, Bakhmut will soon be known by its Russian name which is “Artyomovsk”. Posted by: MiniMo | Mar 26 2023 0:13 utc | 30 Oberst-Gruppenführer ReinhardVonSiegfried | Mar 25 2023 21:59 utc | 6 Posted by: Acco Hengst | Mar 26 2023 0:17 utc | 31 Despite all the past months’ “clobberings”, the mighty Russian military still only controls the easternmost 1/8th of Ukraine. Pathetic. They should have steamrolled their way at least to Kiev by the end of spring 2022, no matter what gadgets NATO supplied to Kiev’s forces. Every day that this conflict goes on, Moscow looks more and more pathetic. Posted by: MiniMo | Mar 26 2023 0:18 utc | 32 @Posted by: Wokechoke | Mar 25 2023 21:32 utc | 4 @21 Posted by: LGB! Posted by: Golddiggr | Mar 26 2023 0:23 utc | 34 The Ukrainians are fellow Slavs. Western strategy has been to pit Slav against Slav resulting in the current destruction of people, soldiers, civilian infrastructure in spite of Russian attempts to destroy as little as possible. The Ukies also use their fellow citizens as human shields and do not mind slaughtering some to stage war crimes. Posted by: MiniMo | Mar 26 2023 0:24 utc | 35 They should have steamrolled their way at least to Kiev by the end of spring 2022, no matter what gadgets NATO supplied to Kiev’s forces. Every day that this conflict goes on, Moscow looks more and more pathetic. Posted by: Ed | Mar 26 2023 0:49 utc | 36 ReinhardVonSuckried | Mar 25 2023 21:59 utc | 6 Posted by: paddy | Mar 26 2023 1:02 utc | 37 @ Minimo – all
President of Ukraine Volodymyr Kokaine Hed Zelensky admitted that the Army of OUN-B Nazi ruled Banderastan cannot yet launch a counteroffensive in the eastern direction, explaining this by a lack of manpower, weapons, ammunition & no AirForce, and ’cause it’s muddy & wet outside. He expressed his point of view as he begged on his knees for more derelict junk & discards from his US/NATO overlords in an interview with the largest Japanese newspaper Yomiuri. Absolutely disgusting… Posted by: Ed | Mar 26 2023 1:05 utc | 39 But nevertheless the fighting leaves the cities destroyed anyways and looking just as bad as the ones in Iraq and Syria. Every building and every house ends up pulverized or severely damaged and the fields are all pockmarked from the bombs. Posted by: Ed | Mar 26 2023 1:15 utc | 40 Oh no! Where did all Ukraine’s soldiers/conscripts, weapons, fuel & ammunition go ? Lost down the back of El Presidente’s sofa, amongst the Kokaine stash, perhaps ? 0/10. Posted by: Jmaas | Mar 26 2023 1:16 utc | 41 ℹ️ 🇵🇱🤡 Poland has submitted a bill to the EU, in the amount of two Billion Euros for the weapons it has handed over to Ukraine. Twatter. lol Not trying to derail things, but had the 2020 ‘selection’ not been stollen by the dems and their Chinese handlers, then there would be no war in Ukraine right now. Imma leave it at that. Posted by: Ed | Mar 26 2023 1:22 utc | 43 @ ReinhardVonSiegfried | Mar 25 2023 21:59 utc | 6 Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 26 2023 1:24 utc | 44 Instead of taking Bakhmut, it should be turned into a deathtrap for Ukrainian army and equipment. Keep them in limbo. Don’t totally frustrate them. That will make them send more and more of their army and weapons to the region where they will be destroyed. That will also limit Russian surveillance of Ukrainian mobilization making it easier to target. Turn Bakhmut into modern day Stalingrad for Ukrainians. Posted by: Jason | Mar 26 2023 1:28 utc | 45 @ Ed | Mar 26 2023 1:05 utc | 37 Posted by: natokraine | Mar 26 2023 1:29 utc | 46 This is for those who lament about lack of land grabbing by Russians in Ukraine. Winning land and holding them is not easy. Posted by: Jason | Mar 26 2023 1:33 utc | 47 @ shadowbanned | Mar 26 2023 0:01 utc | 26 Posted by: natokraine | Mar 26 2023 1:36 utc | 48 Thanks Golddiggr, for the support. IFKYK. I have been to almost a dozen Trump rallies over the years and I tell you, there is nothing like it. Just love for country and for fellow Patriots. Posted by: LGB! | Mar 26 2023 1:53 utc | 49 The story line for the war that I have accepted as true is that Putin was attempting to pressure Zelensky into a treaty. The invading forces were not numerous enough to occupy the country, and when Zelenski didn’t cooperate, the Russians had to retreat to easily defensible locations. Over summer and into the fall, Putin put together a proper army, and it was expected that they would take control of the situation over winter. The problem that turned up was that it was an usually mild winter and the eastern Ukraine was one big mud hole. So it all got put on hold. Posted by: Jmaas | Mar 26 2023 2:03 utc | 50 @ LGB! | Mar 26 2023 1:53 utc | 47 Posted by: natokraine | Mar 26 2023 2:06 utc | 51 https://www.rt.com/russia/573591-international-legion-ukraine-corruption/ Posted by: Eighthman | Mar 26 2023 2:10 utc | 52 I’m basing this on yesterday’s militaryland.net maps. Other sources correlate well with it. Russian forces attacked around twenty cities, and have been steadily moving the line of contact to the West. Bakhmut, Avdiivka, and Marinka used to be strategically important cities because they controlled the roads and railroads of the area around them. They were hinge pins in Ukraine’s second defensive line. Posted by: barstool | Mar 26 2023 2:23 utc | 53 #22 Posted by: Irish | Mar 26 2023 2:26 utc | 54
Should have been done on Day 1, they already deserved it at the time by the mere fact of what had been done in the Donbass in previous years and then by making Bandera, Shukhevych, Petliura and the rest national heroes.
Absolute no brainer. They have the technical means to do it contrary to the nonsense excuses you see here — there are a few bridges in Western Ukraine that are much smaller and easier to take out than those on the Dnieper, plus a few key railway infrastructure objects, and then if they insist on using roads, the old Soviet heavy, now near-obsolete anti-ship missiles, of which Russia still has a large stockpile, could be used to make sure no viable repairs of the road network can be made by hitting them again and again, and making huge craters that will not be repairable in a day or two.
Isolate the battlefield deep in the rear, by properly destroying logistics. Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 26 2023 2:32 utc | 55 @21 Posted by: LGB! Posted by: Drinky Crow | Mar 26 2023 2:34 utc | 56 🇺🇦🇺🇲 Dnieper be Mekong Delta ? Calling Colonel Walter E. Kurtz …
🇺🇦 AFU is in the process of field testing, prior to introducing, the latest in new advanced and innovative weapons systems to make up for it’s ever diminishing tubes & launchers. Ammunition is plentiful.🤡 I do not wish to pass a Geiger counter over every slice of bread I eat. Posted by: averros | Mar 26 2023 2:50 utc | 58 The despicable UK is sending DU shells for no other reason that to poison the ground and spread cancers, their effect on the battlefield will be irrelevant. What does Russia do in response? Nuke the UK? The world opinion they have been carefully developing would be squandered. Drop a dirty bomb perhaps? Same outcome. It is a conundrum the UK is well aware of, NATO uses every dirty trick in the book, we are not the good guys in any reality. Posted by: Organic | Mar 26 2023 2:53 utc | 59 Posted by: young | Mar 25 2023 22:35 utc | 9 Posted by: unimperator | Mar 26 2023 3:02 utc | 60 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11899089/Britain-need-10-years-notice-Putin-repel-Russian-invasion-warns-General.html Posted by: hankster | Mar 26 2023 3:04 utc | 61 Posted by: Wokechoke | Mar 25 2023 21:32 utc | 4 Posted by: bs | Mar 26 2023 3:28 utc | 62 I don’t usually follow the Ukraine threads, so please forgive any redundancy if this has been discussed. Global South has the full briefing from Russia on the seriousness of deploying depleted uranium (anywhere):
I have read this thread so far, and I appreciate the discussion on this aspect of the conflict. I would welcome any thoughts on this matter. Posted by: Grieved | Mar 26 2023 3:45 utc | 63 Ukraine is a wheat producing country. The use of uranium bullets in Ukraine would be unfortunate; I do not wish to pass a Geiger counter over every slice of bread I eat. Posted by: LoveDonbass | Mar 26 2023 4:17 utc | 64 Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 25 2023 22:49 utc | 12 Posted by: migueljose | Mar 26 2023 4:17 utc | 65 With Trump we would likely be at war with China and Iran. Posted by: LoveDonbass | Mar 26 2023 4:19 utc | 66 Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 26 2023 2:32 utc | 53 Posted by: Azscout | Mar 26 2023 4:22 utc | 67 I know how to use Uranium to push a ship through water, but I have no real understanding of combat. That’s why I’m just a barstool here among true experts in such things. My information on DU used in combat is from reading places like this one. Posted by: barstool | Mar 26 2023 4:36 utc | 68 @Grieved | Mar 26 2023 3:45 utc | 60 Posted by: barstool | Mar 26 2023 4:40 utc | 69 11: Posted by: ReinhardVonSiegfried | Mar 25 2023 21:59 utc | 6 Posted by: Colin | Mar 26 2023 4:52 utc | 71 Posted by: young | Mar 25 2023 22:35 utc | 9 Posted by: Colin | Mar 26 2023 5:02 utc | 72
Posted by: Down South | Mar 26 2023 5:53 utc | 73
Posted by: Down South | Mar 26 2023 5:55 utc | 74
Posted by: Down South | Mar 26 2023 5:56 utc | 75
Posted by: Down South | Mar 26 2023 5:57 utc | 76
Posted by: Down South | Mar 26 2023 5:59 utc | 77 Nice to hear that Russia is finally converting big dumb bombs to gps / glonaas guided glide bombs and whatnot. During the war in Syria the Russians were saying that the gps / glonaas guided air dropped bombs and glide bombs were too expensive and unnecessary. So this war is forcing Russia to put down the vodka bottle and get off its lazy behind, throughout human history it has been war which has been the main driver behind technological development and innovation. An added benefit of war is that birth rates increase, Russia must rotate the troops back home for R&R often, so this war is just strengthening Russia immensely when it was supposed to be weakening Russia. Posted by: gT | Mar 26 2023 6:28 utc | 78 Latest Martyanov for the bloviating hater… Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 26 2023 6:49 utc | 80 Re: De-Dollarization Posted by: Exile | Mar 26 2023 7:30 utc | 81 Orignally I could not see the importantance of Bakhmut. It is a defensive position, but there are others further west and these can easily be strengthened. Indeed whole new ones can be established. The ground might not be so favourable but in essence endless defence lines can be formed. Posted by: marcjf | Mar 26 2023 7:52 utc | 82 Ukrainian sources report that more than 50% of the militants trained at the training grounds of the EU and Britain have already been eliminated or become crippled in the Bakhmut and Donetsk directions. Some of them were located on the border with Belarus, but a month ago they began to be transferred to the east. Posted by: unimperator | Mar 26 2023 7:57 utc | 83 And they absolutely love him in India. Posted by: too scents | Mar 26 2023 7:58 utc | 84 ” 10 orders of magnitude, ” Posted by: MAKK | Mar 26 2023 9:24 utc | 85 Umm echo chamber much? I’m not at all always with Shadowbanned, but I value the contrarian perspective. The DU episode is not being played well by the Russian side, and that includes Putin personally. He said explicitly that sending DU munitions to Donbass would lead to a serious Russian response, but there is no sign that Russia is prepared to hit back hard at the British to deter such a step. Can it really have been a surprise that London would respond “FU, we’ll do it anyway”? After all, that’s how it always goes. One can condemn of course, meekly try to shame the shameless; but drawing red lines one doesn’t intend to enforce only projects indecision. Just the other day a British spy plane escorted by two fighters flew past Crimea; clearly, they were none too scared about being made an example of. And as others here also point out, the DU issue is important, esp. given that SE Ukraine (the new Russian territories if you prefer) is densely populated and agriculturally important. Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Mar 26 2023 9:27 utc | 86 @Ma Laoshi 86 Posted by: AG | Mar 26 2023 9:33 utc | 87 @ West of England Andy | Mar 25 2023 21:07 utc | 3 Posted by: MAKK | Mar 26 2023 9:36 utc | 88 At 83 re ukr losses….some talk that ukrops are deliberately seeking out russian native and culturally more so speakers to send to front line…a form of genocide…. Posted by: Jo | Mar 26 2023 9:43 utc | 89 At 86.. maybe or hopefully the DU bombs could be nullified in transport as a RTP before they get to Ukraine…they might go by ship then train to some holding point for distribution…probably Poland not Ramstein…..if EU countries are certain they are “safe” they might be persuaded otherwise if Russia publishes their location and says will destroy in situ . Posted by: Jo | Mar 26 2023 9:48 utc | 90 @AG | Mar 26 2023 9:33 utc | 87 Posted by: Ma Laoshi | Mar 26 2023 10:06 utc | 91 Latest positional update from Weeb Union; Posted by: Lantern Dude | Mar 26 2023 10:17 utc | 92 With mini-submarine and cargo cranes Posted by: BonfireNight | Mar 26 2023 10:20 utc | 93 De-dollarization mechanics from a pro-NATO Jewish journalist : Posted by: Exile | Mar 26 2023 10:38 utc | 94 @ shadowbanned Posted by: natokraine | Mar 26 2023 10:41 utc | 95 Poland blew up (or was involved in blowing up) NS pipelines. Now they calculated that EU owns them 2 billion euros for arms. While they will probably get it, they forget that German economy will get hurt permanently and they might be unable and unwilling to provide free money through EU to Poland or others much longer. Posted by: unimperator | Mar 26 2023 10:42 utc | 96
Bakhmut was hugely important strategically a year ago. But after nearly a year passed that is no longer the case. Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 26 2023 10:59 utc | 97
Note that Zelensky himself expected it, which is why he hid in a bunker for the first week. Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 26 2023 11:03 utc | 98 @ # 68 “titanium” ? I’m sure the correct metal is tungsten, not titanium. Posted by: Walter | Mar 26 2023 11:09 utc | 99 Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 25 2023 21:07 utc | 3 Posted by: CM of Berlin | Mar 26 2023 11:11 utc | 100 |
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