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March 17, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-63
Comments
Putin says:
1.Nonsense that Ukraine took out the Nord Stream pipeline
2. Points to the United States
3. Another device that was planted failed to activate.
Video https://twitter.com/AbrahamStein8/status/1636751338578100225?s=20
Posted by: Dave Oneil | Mar 17 2023 15:29 utc | 1
Apologies anyone missing MOS summaries, under the weather last two days … do not believe MOD Summary for 16.03 has been posted.
Minimum, incomplete, low-ball KIA(only) 520+ … Translated:
Summary of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on a special military operation (16.03.2023)
◽️ In the Kupyan direction, strikes by assault and army aviation and artillery fire of the “Western” group of troops hit the enemy’s manpower and equipment in the areas of Gryanikovka, Kotlyarovka, Berestovoye settlements of the Kharkiv Region, Novoselovskoye and Rozovka of the Luhansk People’s Republic.
💥 Up to 50 Ukrainian servicemen, two vehicles, and a US-made M777 artillery system were destroyed.
◽️ In the Krasno-Limanskoe direction, artillery and heavy flamethrower systems of the Group of Forces (Forces) Center hit enemy units in the areas of Nevske, Chervona Dibrova of the Luhansk People’s Republic, Yampolovka and Hryhorovka of the Donetsk People’s Republic.
💥 More than 100 Ukrainian servicemen, two infantry fighting vehicles, two armored fighting vehicles, an Acacia self-propelled artillery unit, and a D-30 howitzer were destroyed in this direction during the day.
◽️ In the Donetsk direction, during active actions of units of the “Southern” group of troops, air strikes and artillery fire, up to 275 Ukrainian servicemen, two tanks, two armored combat vehicles, two pickup trucks, a Uragan multiple rocket launcher, a D-20 howitzer, a Gvozdika self-propelled howitzer, and a US-made M109 Paladin self-propelled artillery unit were destroyed overnight.
◽️ In the South Donetsk and Zaporizhzhya directions, the operational and tactical aviation and artillery of the Vostok Group of Forces inflicted a complex attack on the AFU units in the areas of Ugledar, Pavlovka of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Novodanilovka and Scherbaki of the Zaporizhzhya region.
💥 During the day, the enemy losses in these directions amounted to 60 Ukrainian servicemen, four tanks, an armored vehicle, a D-20 howitzer, and one US-made M777 artillery system.
◽️ In the Kherson direction, more than 35 Ukrainian servicemen, one tank, two Grad MLRS vehicles, as well as a D-30 howitzer were destroyed in the course of the day.
💥 Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery of groups of troops (forces) of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation during the day hit 93 artillery units in firing positions, manpower and equipment in 186 areas.
💥 The command post of the 59th AFU motorized infantry brigade was hit near the village of Kamyshevka in the Donetsk People’s Republic.
💥 A Ukrainian S-300 anti-aircraft missile system was destroyed near the village of Yasenovoye in the Donetsk People’s Republic.
💥 A Ukrainian Osa-AKM anti-aircraft missile system was also destroyed near the village of Kostyantynivka.
💥 A US-made AN/TPQ-50 counter-battery radar station was destroyed near the Minkovka settlement of the Donetsk People’s Republic.
💥 Fighter aircraft of the Russian Air Force shot down a MiG-29 aircraft of the Ukrainian air force near the village of Novovodynoye in the Luhansk People’s Republic.
◽️ The air defense forces intercepted eight HIMARS and Uragan MBRLS rockets, as well as one HARM anti-radar missile during the day.
💥 In addition, nine Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were destroyed in the areas of Ivanovka (Kharkiv region), Zelenyi Hay, Verhnetoretske, Hryhorivka (Donetsk people’s republic), Kreminna (Luhansk people’s republic), Malaya Kardashinka and Alyoshki (Kherson region).
📊 In total, since the beginning of the special military operation destroyed (losses over previous 24hrs(+?)):
402(+1) aircraft, (Daily avg 1.1)
221 helicopters, (Daily avg 0.6)
3,434(+9) unmanned aerial vehicles, (Daily avg 8.9)
414(+2) surface-to-air missile systems, (Daily avg 1.1)
8,316(+13) tanks and other armored combat vehicles, (Daily avg 21.8)
1,062(+3) multiple rocket launchers, (Daily avg 2.8)
4,372(+9) field artillery and mortars, (Daily avg 11.4) and
8,959(+6) special military vehicles. (Daily avg 23.3)
&
Minimum, incomplete, low-ball KIA(only) 335+ … Translated:
Summary of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the progress of a special military operation (17.03.2023)
◽️ In the Kupyansk direction, air strikes and artillery fire of the “Western” grouping of troops hit AFU units in the areas of Dvurechnoye, Berestovoye of Kharkiv Region and Artemivka of Luhansk People’s Republic. The losses of the enemy amounted to more than 40 Ukrainian soldiers, an armored fighting vehicle, two vehicles, as well as an ammunition depot of the 113th Brigade of Territorial Defense.
◽️ In the Krasno-Limansky direction in the course of active actions of units of the group of troops “Center”, air strikes and artillery fire hit the enemy’s manpower and equipment in the areas of the settlements of Terny and Yampolovka of the Donetsk People’s Republic. During the day, more than 70 Ukrainian servicemen, an infantry fighting vehicle, an armored fighting vehicle, three pickup trucks, a car and a D-30 howitzer were destroyed in this direction.
◽️ In the Donetsk direction, active actions of units of the “Southern” group of troops and artillery fire in the areas of Semenovka, Petrovskoye and Tonenkoye settlements of the Donetsk People’s Republic destroyed up to 135 Ukrainian servicemen, three armored combat vehicles, four pickups, one vehicle, a Grad MLRS combat vehicle, a D-30 howitzer, as well as an ammunition warehouse of the 53rd mechanized brigade of the AFU overnight.
◽️ On the South Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia directions, air strikes and artillery fire of the Vostok Group of Forces hit AFU units in the areas of Ugledar and Novomikhailovka settlements of the Donetsk People’s Republic. Total losses of the enemy in these directions amounted to 65 Ukrainian servicemen, two armored combat vehicles, two pickup trucks, three vehicles and two D-20 howitzers.
◽️ In the Kherson direction, up to 25 Ukrainian servicemen, two armored combat vehicles, ten vehicles, a Grad MLRS vehicle and an Acacia self-propelled artillery unit were destroyed in the course of fire.
💥 Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery of groups of troops (forces) of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation hit 82 artillery units of the AFU in firing positions, manpower and equipment in 112 areas.
💥 A Ukrainian low-flying air target detection radar station 36D6 was uncovered and destroyed near the settlement of Mirnoye, Kharkiv Oblast.
◽️ In addition, a US-made AN/TPQ-36 counterbattery radar station was destroyed near the village of Redkodub in the Donetsk People’s Republic.
💥 The air defense forces intercepted five HIMARS MBRLS rockets and a Tochka-U tactical missile during the day.
◽️ Fourteen Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were also destroyed during the day in the areas of Korsunka, Golaya Pristan in Kherson region, Rubizhne in Luhansk People’s Republic, Kotlyarovka and Olshana in Kharkiv region.
📊 In total, since the beginning of the special military operation destroyed (losses over previous 24hrs(+?)):
402 aircraft, (Daily avg 1.1)
221 helicopters, (Daily avg 0.6)
3,448(+14) unmanned aerial vehicles, (Daily avg 8.9)
414 surface-to-air missile systems, (Daily avg 1.1)
8,326(+10) tanks and other armored combat vehicles, (Daily avg 21.8)
1,064(+2) multiple rocket launchers, (Daily avg 2.8)
4,377(+5) field artillery and mortars, (Daily avg 11.4) and
8,985(+26) special military vehicles. (Daily avg 23.3)
Comment:
High sustained OP tempo over 5 days period up to & inclusive of 16.03. OP tempo significantly lowered over preceding 24 hrs by ~ -60%, yet no reduction in materiel AFU losses, in fact the opposite. Concentration of main effort in limited, specific locales.
Sustained continual attrition, due increased active AFU engagements beyond static defense positions, re developing/expansion of envelopments, of AFU evermore scarce AFVs/Arty/MBRLS & soft-skinned transport & ad-hoc logistics support vehicles, particularly the latter over preceding 10 days.
Last 7+ days indicate a sustained higher priority of targeting & destruction of AFU Air Defense System(ADS) assets. Probable preparatory to higher commitment & rate of extant RuAF & Army CAS assets strikes in further depth(beyond ~35km) beyond FEBA. Note: ADS Radar destruction constitutes an unclaimed Kill, as zero parts or replacements available to AFU re pre ’91 Soviet assets.
Increased in-depth sorties re close reconnaissance & strikes will allow for greater destruction of AFU stores/dumps/depots in rear areas (beyond range of deployed tube/rocket ranged Fires), especially ordnance, to further disrupt fragile tenuous logistical train & therefore disrupt effective preparation of significant counter-attacks(& imagined counter-offensives), including localized & concurrently accelerate AFU organizational/structural collapse by diminishing effective combat power of already in contact AFU units all along FEBA.
@ Outraged | Mar 17 2023 15:32 utc | 2
D’oh! Correction: anyone missing MOS summaries > anyone missing daily RF MOD summaries.
⚡️BREAKING: International Criminal Court issues arrest warrant for Putin
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/37845
… for war crimes in Ukraine
Good to have objective courts /s
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 17 2023 15:40 utc | 4
Just FYI:
https://twitter.com/IntlCrimCourt/status/1636746559588036610
Posted by: Membrum Virile | Mar 17 2023 15:42 utc | 5
The ICC clowning itself on the eve of Xi’s Moscow visit.
Posted by: too scents | Mar 17 2023 15:47 utc | 6
Every US President in the last 70 years is worthy of arrest by the ICC. Zelensky deserves the gallows. Putin? For protecting his country against the Great Satan Empire of Lies? No so much.
Posted by: gottlieb | Mar 17 2023 15:48 utc | 7
Our source reports that the Office of the President is unhappy that some media went against Yermak and his idea to deprive the military of the right to run and be part of the political class, starting to write about this problem and violations of the rights, freedoms and values of democracy. Yes, and in general, this is disrespect for their heroes. (With this approach, you can ban doctors, plumbers, farmers, etc. Leaving only permission for the 95th quarter and that’s it).
The resident is right that this is a strategy to drain Zaluzhny as a political competitor to Zelensky. Bankova is very afraid of losing monopoly power and is ready to go to any intrigues and schemes.
According to our information, the Head of the Office of the President promised Zelensky that he would pass this bill quickly and quietly. To do this, everyone was asked not to raise this topic and not to highlight it in the information field.
But the situation is getting out of control and dissatisfaction is growing among the military volunteers, to whom the authorities have assigned the role of disenfranchised “dogs of war”, who must live as the armchair-rear “mice” want, and do what the boys in suits come up with.
Let us add that no matter how loud the patriots and the military are, Ze / Yermak froze them in the case of the Opposition Platform for Life (Levochkin), which was not deprived of mandates precisely for such cases when “carcasses” (votes in a controversial bill) are needed.
As early as March 15, we, like our colleagues, drew attention to this bill, indicating that the country is at war, and office workers are preparing for elections. They care about power, not the preservation of Ukraine.
Our source adds on the case of “cleansing the military” with office ones, that after the adoption of the bill, Bankovaya will dismiss Zalugny this year. Ermak will fulfill his goal, he, in principle, always brings the matter to the end. Avakov will not let you lie, because Yermak leaked him at the moment when he convinced everyone that they were allies.
The source indicates that a window of opportunity will appear and they will find a reason, but now it will not be possible to say that Ze / Yermak is removing a political competitor, since Zaluzhny will be closed to politics.
Here is such a multi-move from the “bear cub”.
Posted by: Down South | Mar 17 2023 15:48 utc | 8
Thanks for that Norwegian. Just read the Charges – what a load of BS. The timing is interesting given that Ukraine is militarily on it’s knees. I don’t think Russia recognise the ICC do they? Just seen the trumped up Charges. What a farce.
Posted by: Jo Dominich | Mar 17 2023 15:49 utc | 9
According to our data for 2022, the Office of the President spent more than $2 billion on covert lobbying for the Ukrainian crisis in the West (including kickbacks and bribes).
Now this amount is growing many times (we think in 2023 it will be about 5-6 billion), as negative sentiments towards Ukraine in the West are growing (crisis, protests, war fatigue, etc.), which forces Bankovaya to pay more. All these stars who call and come to Zelensky are all paid through the “gray schemes” of the shady back office of Bankova. Do you think they do it for free? How naive are you…
All bot farms, SMM and seo departments of banking, gobble up tens of millions of dollars a week.
Now there is still a risk that the Republicans will turn on the “trickle” of aid, which could threaten catastrophic consequences for the entire “game”. The resident has already written about this, pointing out that Bankovaya is trying to buy the loyalty of the Republicans. I wonder what they will give a rollback?
Conclusion: everyone is making money on the Ukrainian crisis, and only the people pay for this bloody banquet and the celebration of the vanity of individual characters.
Think!
Posted by: Down South | Mar 17 2023 15:50 utc | 10
The ICC just proved to everyone that its lost the plot, and is just a political tool of the US, even though its not a member.
Posted by: Kaiama | Mar 17 2023 15:51 utc | 11
Our source reports that a riot is brewing in the country with relatives of military personnel and mobilized due to the fact that the Office of the President hides the number of casualties and missing persons.
We wrote back on January 28 that this would be a problem that ZeYermak wants to solve with the help of the SBU, intimidating relatives with criminal cases and work for the Kremlin.
Posted by: Down South | Mar 17 2023 15:52 utc | 12
Maria Zakharova’s weekly briefing where she answers a question about the ICC crap published by the Lying NYTimes, gives a long update on Ukraine, and talks about many other issues.
@ Norwegian | Mar 17 2023 15:40 utc | 4
@ Membrum Virile | Mar 17 2023 15:42 utc | 5
Puerile BS & political propaganda narrative theater, will not play well re double-standards in the better informed RoW. Uh, no jurisdiction in Russia ? ICC unrecognized, RF exited EU treaties, OCSE, zero extradition of Russian citizens under RF constitution, etc.
Yet another stunt as for MH-17 investigation farce. Empire & lackeys may well regret these actions & the precedents created in future, once the curtain comes down.
Morons.
🇷🇺⚖️The decisions of the International Criminal Court have no significance for our country, including from a legal point of view, said the official representative of the Russian Foreign Ministry Maria Zakharova.
“Russia is not a party to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and has no obligations under it. Russia does not cooperate with this body, and possible “recipes” for arrest coming from the International Court of Justice will be legally null and void for us,” Zakharova added.
https://t.me/azmilitary11/41170
Posted by: Down South | Mar 17 2023 15:57 utc | 15
So a NATO court acts against Putin,this is panic from the Reich who know they are losing in Ukraine,its cler the US have told the ICC what to do in this case,thats the same US that threatened to arrest any ICC official who went to America to look at US war crimes,Russia needs with other independent Countries to set up their own war crimes court and issue arrest warrants for loco joe and Nato heads,just who do these scumbags think they are dealing with? and if any Country is stupid enough to try and enforce the Nato court warrant they really will be dealing with WW3.
Posted by: Englishman | Mar 17 2023 15:58 utc | 16
Uh, no jurisdiction in Russia ? ICC unrecognized
Same story in USA.
Emperor of All The Americas is not subject to ICC. US refuses to subject Blackwater to ICC and prefers to jail Chelsea Manning……….
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 17 2023 16:01 utc | 17
@ Norwegian | Mar 17 2023 15:40 utc | 4
yes, lol.. it worked so well on bush 2, blair, obama, cheney, rumsfield, wolfowitz and all the others… why not get it to work here? the international criminal court sets itself up in the same kangeroo court as all the others here on the world stage at this point … pathetic… they wouldn’t know a war criminal if their own kids were murdered…
Posted by: james | Mar 17 2023 16:02 utc | 18
” ⚡️BREAKING: International Criminal Court issues arrest warrant for Putin
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/37845
… for war crimes in Ukraine
Good to have objective courts /s
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 17 2023 15:40 utc | 4 ”
Whats Putin going to say about the need follow international laws now ?
Posted by: Deplorable Commisar | Mar 17 2023 16:02 utc | 19
@Jo Dominich | Mar 17 2023 15:49 utc | 9
Thanks for that Norwegian. Just read the Charges – what a load of BS. The timing is interesting given that Ukraine is militarily on it’s knees. I don’t think Russia recognise the ICC do they? Just seen the trumped up Charges. What a farce.
No, they don’t. Here is Maria Zakharova on that question
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/37848
Decisions of the International Criminal Court have no meaning for our country, including from a legal point of view, says Maria Zakharova.
“Russia is not a party to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and does not bear any obligations under it.” “Russia does not cooperate with this body, and possible “recipes” for arrest coming from the International Court will be legally null and void for us,” the diplomat added.
This is the end of the ICC
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 17 2023 16:03 utc | 20
A must view for the barflies:
Scott Ritter blasts Lyndsay Graham. No holds barred, brutal takedown. In the old days of the Confederacy, Graham and Ritter would have to duel over this, it is that bad. The host sets it up at the 4 minute mark and Ritter goes on for almost 4 minutes, hardcore and a must watch imo.
https://youtu.be/GjWqBnVLCC4
Posted by: Morongobill | Mar 17 2023 16:03 utc | 21
@ Paul Greenwood | Mar 17 2023 16:01 utc | 17
so true.. and they have essentially been doing the same to assange for how many years? these countries are completely hypocritical… blackwater is cool.. assange – a criminal… same bullshit as it always was…
Posted by: james | Mar 17 2023 16:03 utc | 22
War news.
The shrillness factor on defending bahkmut is going up markedly. Lots of western media outlets are openly worrying about worsening casualties.
No more info about the brigades in chasiv yar, bahkmuts garrison is getting squeezed hard, so maybe they’ll write them off. Hard to say Zelensky has got his balls in front of his brains.maybe he’s banking on russian forces breaking.
They’re reporting fewer attacks in bahkmut, although adviika seems a lot hotter now and getting some reluctant looks now.
It seems Ukrainian offensive potential is gone from the kharkiv front. Russia won the battle to hold the line there and has several options for attacking.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 17 2023 16:06 utc | 23
Posted by: Englishman | Mar 17 2023 15:58 utc | 16
So a NATO court acts against Putin,this is panic from the Reich who know they are losing in Ukraine,its cler the US have told the ICC what to do in this case,thats the same US that threatened to arrest any ICC official who went to America to look at US war crimes,Russia needs with other independent Countries to set up their own war crimes court and issue arrest warrants for loco joe and Nato heads,just who do these scumbags think they are dealing with?
————————-
That court would just be pushing Russian interests and would be condemned for bias just like you’re condemning the ICC for bias. How about a court that issues arrest warrants for war crimes from all sides?
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Mar 17 2023 16:08 utc | 24
Outraged @2
Appreciated the post, and particularly the commentary. A lot of TG users run across the MOD punch lists, but it’s valuable to have an attentive, informed observer synthesize trends.
Most barflies will recognize that the war is primarily attritional–but it’s hard to see past the punch lists to broader trends.
Many of us struggle to remember that the war–attritional, energy, commodities, industrial, financial, currency, political, geopoliitical–is now with NATO. RF has destroyed the #2 military in Europe, & exposed NATO’s weaknesses– defense-industrial, weapons effectiveness wrt cost, strategic intelligence and planning. Ukraine is just the locus now.
Many are thinking of a quick end this summer, & China’s role seems more likely to push in this direction. But until China signaled its big move, I was increasingly persuaded that RF was prepared, even preferred, to actually drag this out (maybe to 2024 or 2025) to the point where, if NATO finally gets crazy enough to cross the border, RF prefers to destroy NATO in the SE –and certainly on the Russian side of the Dniepr — than be stretched at the Polish border.
For those of us who have occasionally been frustrated by the slow pace of Russia’s escalation, it may be plausible to speculate that RF grand strategy, from Feb 2022, has been to fight at a pace and in a way that Russia’s overall combat power wrt NATO grows with each passing month, whatever else happens on the battlefield. So that, if NATO makes its move, Russia’s alliances, defense-industrial base, equipment, training, tactics are at their peak, as NATO grows ever more fractured, confused, ill-led, de-industrialized, de-energized, de-dollarized–and their intel is so bad they’ve basically handed RF a strategic-level maskirovka masterpiece.
I mean, FFS, after a year they can’t even *implement* a plan to gear up artillery production… Financing, profit margins, locations, contracts, permitting, worker recruitment & training–**trains** & logistical transport. All the things that a command economy in wartime pulls together in weeks.
They’ve lost the capacity to COMMAND power at scale.
Posted by: Paul Damascene | Mar 17 2023 16:14 utc | 25
@Englishman | Mar 17 2023 15:58 utc | 16
So a NATO court acts against Putin,this is panic from the Reich who know they are losing in Ukraine,its cler the US have told the ICC what to do in this case,thats the same US that threatened to arrest any ICC official who went to America to look at US war crime
It goes much further, the US “HAGUE INVASION ACT” protects from criminal prosecution in ICC criminal court. They can order INVASION of The Hague if it isn’t happy with any decision to prosecute US personnel
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 17 2023 16:19 utc | 26
@19
Russia is not a member of the ICC so its has no jurisdiction. This warrant is nothing more than a PR stunt as there is zero chance to enforce it.
Posted by: Zenith | Mar 17 2023 16:20 utc | 27
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 17 2023 16:01 utc | 17
Same story in USA.
Emperor of All The Americas is not subject to ICC. US refuses to subject Blackwater to ICC and prefers to jail Chelsea Manning………
It goes further than that:
Hague Invasion Act
is a United States federal law described as “a bill to protect United States military personnel and other elected and appointed officials of the United States government against criminal prosecution by an international criminal court to which the United States is not party.”
SEC. 2008. of the Act authorizes the President of the U.S. “to use all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any person described in subsection (b) who is being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court”.
Posted by: hopehely | Mar 17 2023 16:21 utc | 28
Posted by: Paul Damascene | Mar 17 2023 16:14 utc | 25
It was reported in the US Financial press today that Industrial Production fell the opposite of wartime ramp up.
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Mar 17 2023 16:26 utc | 29
Bakhmut is done, IMHO. The roads are cut (Khromove is unusable as a route and Ivanovske highway bridge has been destroyed and still under fire control). Whatever got left in Bakhmut is gone, the only question is whether they are allowed to whither away or rooted out with gradual advancements. Looks like they are doing the latter, as the MOD probably wants those forces inside Bakhmut released and the front line shortened, and Bakhmut to be utilized as a supply railhead.
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 17 2023 16:26 utc | 30
Morongobill no. 21
“Pompous, perfumed prick”. Priceless. 🤣
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Mar 17 2023 16:27 utc | 31
” That court would just be pushing Russian interests and would be condemned for bias just like you’re condemning the ICC for bias. How about a court that issues arrest warrants for war crimes from all sides?
Posted by: Inkan1969 | Mar 17 2023 16:08 utc | 24 ”
Do you actually beleive Russia and China would agree to this ? Verry funny. International ” law ” is only meant for small nations unable to defend themselves from the big ” boys “. International law is and always will be a joke.
Posted by: Deplorable Commisar | Mar 17 2023 16:28 utc | 32
@29 even more curiously the industry want long term contracts to support ramping up capacity. But the Whitehouse wants them to spend the money to ramp up production by themselves and trust the orders to come in after.
No one believes Biden, well being a life long liar will do that.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 17 2023 16:34 utc | 33
The International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague issued arrest warrants for Putin and Maria Lvova-Belova for the crime of deportation of children from Ukraine to Russia.
Here is an excerpt from today’s press release:
Pre-Trial Chamber II considered, based on the Prosecution’s applications of 22 February 2023, that there are reasonable grounds to believe that each suspect bears responsibility for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population and that of unlawful transfer of population from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation, in prejudice of Ukrainian children.
The Chamber considered that the warrants are secret in order to protect victims and witnesses and also to safeguard the investigation. Nevertheless, mindful that the conduct addressed in the present situation is allegedly ongoing, and that the public awareness of the warrants may contribute to the prevention of the further commission of crimes, the Chamber considered that it is in the interests of justice to authorise the Registry to publicly disclose the existence of the warrants, the name of the suspects, the crimes for which the warrants are issued, and the modes of liability as established by the Chamber.
The abovementioned warrants of arrests were issued pursuant to the applications submitted by the Prosecution on 22 February 2023.
This is serious because all members of the ICC have an obligation to effect the arrest warrants, which are under seal so we can’t see the factual basis for the charges. That makes international travel for the two officials risky.
At this point I just want to remark that the investigation so far has shown only the deportation and unlwaful transfer of children as alleged crimes committed by the Russian side.
Also, the ICC Prosecutor is a British lawyer, an excellent one, who has, unfortunately, turned the ICC Office of the Prosecutor into a political body as amply evidenced by his actions from the beginning of the events in Ukraine.
Posted by: JB | Mar 17 2023 16:35 utc | 34
Outraged @ 2
Thank you for posting. Telegram access is erratic at best. We do pay attention.
Posted by: odhippie | Mar 17 2023 16:36 utc | 35
Addendum:
ICC press release here:
https://www.icc-cpi.int/news/situation-ukraine-icc-judges-issue-arrest-warrants-against-vladimir-vladimirovich-putin-and
Posted by: JB | Mar 17 2023 16:37 utc | 36
Another escalation. Presumably this gives the neo-cons what they’ve always wanted – the green light to declare war on Russia.
Posted by: Night Tripper | Mar 17 2023 16:39 utc | 37
@ Paul Greenwood | Mar 17 2023 16:01 utc | 17
Recall we passed legislation specifically authorizing military force to rescue any US citizens charged & detained by ICC years ago, circa Iraq wWr ’03. Wild west ‘International-Rules-Based-Order’.
@ james | Mar 17 2023 16:02 utc | 18
they wouldn’t know a war criminal if their own kids were murdered
Except where said alleged war criminal resides outside the walled ‘Garden'(Excluding Serbia) and ideally resides on the African continent, or is black, brown, yellow, slav or generally arbitrarily classified non-exceptional ‘non-white’ or merely ‘others’ (Excluding honorary whites: Sth Koreans & Japanese) … perhaps ?
@ Paul Damascene | Mar 17 2023 16:14 utc | 25
@ odhippie | Mar 17 2023 16:36 utc | 35
You are most welcome. ‘Twas my base duty/role long years past (Division/Corps/Army/Theater) for ~30 years. ‘Tis important to stand back and look at the forest (Strategic/Operational) not get caught up excessively focusing on individual leaves or trees(Tactical minutia). Great summary post, especially concur with:
to fight at a pace and in a way that Russia’s overall combat power wrt NATO grows with each passing month, whatever else happens on the battlefield. So that, if NATO makes its move, Russia’s alliances, defense-industrial base, equipment, training, tactics are at their peak, as NATO grows ever more fractured, confused, ill-led, de-industrialized, de-energized, de-dollarized–and their intel is so bad they’ve basically handed RF a strategic-level maskirovka masterpiece.
Cheers. Salut!
@ karlof1 | Mar 17 2023 15:52 utc | 13
Thank you kindly. Off to read it & view Morongobill’s link. Cheers.
the US “HAGUE INVASION ACT” protects from criminal prosecution in ICC criminal court. They can order INVASION of The Hague if it isn’t happy with any decision to prosecute US personnel
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 17 2023 16:19 utc | 26
Yes it is worse,its what i would expect from a Regime full of hubris and arrogance,after all they are exceptional or as the Nazis said about the Germans Ubermench.
Posted by: Englishman | Mar 17 2023 16:45 utc | 39
Norwegian | Mar 17 2023 15:40 utc | 4
Yet killing hundreds of thousand civiliant Iraqis is OK. The level of Western hypocrisy has now reached the ionosphere.
Posted by: Sektion2B | Mar 17 2023 16:49 utc | 40
The ICC is so clever here thinking that member states will arrest Putin what they don’t realize is that member states will simply drop their membership instead
Posted by: Kadath | Mar 17 2023 16:52 utc | 42
Posted by: JB | Mar 17 2023 16:35 utc | 34
Pre-Trial Chamber II considered, based on the Prosecution’s applications of 22 February 2023, that there are reasonable grounds to believe that each suspect bears responsibility for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population and that of unlawful transfer of population from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation, in prejudice of Ukrainian children.
Ah, so that was the “crime”, evacuating kids from combat zones in Donbass. What a crime indeed.
Ms Lavova-Belova deserves 3 medals for that IMO.
Posted by: hopehely | Mar 17 2023 16:56 utc | 43
The ICC warrants, that is the allegations against Putin and Lvova-Belova are based on a legal technicality of ‘occupation’ of parts of Ukraine territory, it appears.
To get a sense of what this is all about PLEASE read this CNN thing:
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/15/europe/russia-ukraine-children-maria-lvova-belova-intl/index.html
Posted by: JB | Mar 17 2023 16:58 utc | 44
I cannot help thinking this is the last throw of the Dice for the collective West. Noted also above that the Warrants were issued on 22.02.2023 in secret in order to protect the alleged ‘witnesses’. That’s a euphemism for “We haven’t got any evidence, witnesses or Case against them but trust us, we will find one once they have been arrested”.
It’s no different to the MH17 farcical Trial in which Russia was not allowed to put in any kind of Defence, there was no mutual disclosure of evidence, there were no Witnesses in the proceedings and evidence was only in writing. It was the biggest travesty of international law ever.
I now believe Russia will finish Ukraine off sooner rather than later. Good for them. God Bless Putin.
Posted by: Jo Dominich | Mar 17 2023 17:01 utc | 45
There is no “international law” – it doesn’t exist. There is however “raw power” and sanctions – and the willingness to use em’.
Putin should be good sport and state publicly that he’ll meet personally in the Hague when the ICC seriously consider charges against W.Bush and Blair. Until then they can F off.
ICC may have good intentions behind it, but it’s used as virtue signalling tool by the “west” towards the global south. AKA it is political.
Posted by: Cato | Mar 17 2023 17:08 utc | 46
This is the end of the ICC
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 17 2023 16:03 utc | 20
The West has a good concept about how to shape public opinion. Just accuse people you don’t like. This puts their adversaries on the defensive, such as they need to prove to the public they are innocent. Or they point out hypocrisy like iraq here, but this can be easily dismissed with whataboutism. The secret is to constantly accuse someone of something. Public opinion will go along.
Posted by: Vikichka | Mar 17 2023 17:09 utc | 47
Just a quick, simple internet search shows quite a propaganda campaign about the “abducted children’.
Here are two more examples which you all should definitely read:
https://globalnews.ca/news/9085794/canada-sanctions-russia-ukraine-child-abduction-scheme/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/vladimir-putin-ally-maria-lvova-belova-is-having-ukrainian-kids-violently-kidnapped-uk-says
and here is the Russian side:
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/administration/69414
Posted by: JB | Mar 17 2023 17:11 utc | 48
The Westerner retards, both leaders and general population, have to win something. Some days it’s on twitter, some days on TV. Today was hague. It’s very funny. A parallel world of drug abuse. This reminds me of dancing Sanna for some reason
Posted by: rk | Mar 17 2023 17:13 utc | 49
The most important news right now is Xi Jinping’s visit to Moscow and his meeting with Putin. Coincidentally the visit falls on the same day as the Persian New Year- Nowrooz, 21st of March. It seems that the ICC psyop operation is aimed at diverting attentions from the Chinese Leader’s visit to Russia.
Posted by: maskazer | Mar 17 2023 17:14 utc | 50
Please folk, move on from the ICC’s nonsense. Don’t honor it with a notice. It belittles intelligence to repeat such nonsense, let alone discuss it. Let the morons in the West continue to parade their angst and impotence for the rest of the world to see.
Posted by: Steve | Mar 17 2023 17:16 utc | 51
Putin could be subject to arrest if he appears in any of the 118 states which have ratified the Rome Statute.
wiki: The ICC has publicly indicted 52 people [mostly Africans]. Proceedings against 22 are ongoing: 16 are at large as fugitives, one is the pre-trial phase and five are on trial. Proceedings against 30 have been completed: two are serving sentences, seven have finished sentences, four have been acquitted, seven have had the charges against them dismissed, three have had the charges against them withdrawn, and seven have died before the conclusion of the proceedings against them.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 17 2023 17:18 utc | 52
Posted by: Steve | Mar 17 2023 17:16 utc | 51
Absolutely correct. Enough of the ICC BS psyop. Would like to see more opinions on the upcoming visit of the Chinese Leader to Russia.
Posted by: maskazer | Mar 17 2023 17:22 utc | 53
Reaper-Crimea talk, from Asia Times
The Pentagon says that the takedown of the Reaper drone by Russian Su-27 pilots was “unsafe and unprofessional.” But the Pentagon has not explained what the drone was doing flying near Crimea, nor has it told the public about the unique capabilities of the MQ-9 Reaper.
The Russian ambassador, summoned to a meeting at the US State Department, said that the Reaper drone was moving provocatively toward Crimea. He also says that the drone’s transponder was turned off, rendering it difficult to track with radar.
Crimea is ultra-sensitive for the Russians, for strategic reasons because of Sevastopol port and because Moscow considers Crimea to have been part of Russia since the time of Catherine the Great (1762-1798).
The Russians know that Ukraine is planning a Spring offensive, for which it is reportedly marshaling some 40,000 troops. The target is almost certainly Crimea. The cat was let out of the bag by US Undersecretary of State Victoria Nuland, who made clear the US supports strikes on Crimea – a declaration that was celebrated by Ukrainian newspapers.
The US is likely behind the planning and organization of the anticipated Ukrainian offensive. Its purposes are to quickly overrun Crimea and to take pressure off the Ukrainian army in the Donbas area, which is now losing ground steadily to the Russian army, local forces and Wagner Group paramilitary forces. . . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 17 2023 17:24 utc | 54
Also, the ICC Prosecutor is a British lawyer, an excellent one, who has, unfortunately, turned the ICC Office of the Prosecutor into a political body as amply evidenced by his actions from the beginning of the events in Ukraine.
Posted by: JB | Mar 17 2023 16:35 utc | 34
Lawyers, like historians and politicians, peddle their version of reality. Truth is optional.
Posted by: JMW | Mar 17 2023 17:26 utc | 55
re icc–the system is completely rigged. fucking idiots are gearing up everything to justify a war everybody on earth will lose from.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 17 2023 17:31 utc | 56
⚡️BREAKING: International Criminal Court issues arrest warrant for Putin
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/37845
… for war crimes in Ukraine
Good to have objective courts /s
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 17 2023 15:40 utc | 4
Just follow the example of US, issue arrest warrants against the judges and threaten military action against the Netherlands, and the investigation goes away:
https://www.france24.com/en/20180910-usa-trump-threatens-arrest-icc-judges-american-soldiers-afghan-war-crimes
Posted by: Marvin | Mar 17 2023 17:33 utc | 57
Vikichka – 47
Accuastions of whataboutisme only work on weak-willed minds and complete idiots, because comparisons and proofs of double standards and hypocrisy are perfectly valid, and it’s perfectly normal to wonder why nothing has been done during decades when it comes past grievous grievances, but suddenly the New Thing has to be dealt with with extreme prejudice right now, as if it’s way worse than similar or worse past crimes.
But then, I’m basically at the point where I wouldn’t be specially upset if Putin decided to go “fuck it” and nuked half the planet, because frankly, our species is subpar and quite the disappointment – and current Western societies are so far from their self-claimed superiority it isn’t even funny anymore.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 17 2023 17:34 utc | 58
More of Putin’s “Pidgeon Politics” from the west. We seem intent on finally discrediting every possible source of respect and legitimacy that we might have left, in order to keep this bullshit war narrative going for another day. Twenty years of Bush-Cheneyism about to undergo gravitational collapse from the mass of its own ejected bullshit. (No this is not physics.)
Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 17 2023 17:35 utc | 59
Pushilin: Russian forces are advancing deep into the industrial area of Artemovsk, by Olga Ivanova for VZGLYAD. 03.17.2023.
The head of the DPR Pushilin: Russian forces are moving deep into the industrial zone of Artemovsk.
Russian forces have entrenched themselves in the buildings of the Vostokmash plant and are now moving deeper into the industrial zone in Artemovsk (the Ukrainian name is Bakhmut), Denis Pushilin, acting head of the DPR, said on Channel One.
He also added that attempts to withdraw several platoons of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) from the city have been thwarted, the situation is systematically moving towards the complete liberation of Artemivsk, TASS reports.
Earlier, adviser to the acting head of the DPR, Yan Gagin, reported that scattered Ukrainian units were trying to retreat from Artemovsk along country roads and fields on foot, leaving stuck equipment.
Posted by: Bakhmut | Mar 17 2023 17:37 utc | 60
What I don’t get is why Russians are morons who can only say ICC doesn’t apply to them in response. Go on fucking offensive, loudly admit that yes, children were moved to Russia, then show 2 min long documentary of all the kids murdered by nazi bombardment in actual genocide, show monument to dead kids in Donbass, then say that’s why they were moved – to save their lives. Saving kids is universal language understood everywhere. Make a mockery out of court punishing good deed, not surrender with that lame non-defense. Hire some PR company that will make better response than just stuttering ‘court sucks’, try to actually convince undecided people you’re in the right…
Posted by: Mr V | Mar 17 2023 17:44 utc | 61
@ JMW | Mar 17 2023 17:26 utc | 55
Lawyers are soulless : their world is “law”
Look at the affinity of law people ( lawyers, judges, ..)
to the new framework as established after 1933 in Germany.
After WWII the legal system was the least denazified domain, followed by politics. extreme: regional powerholders
Posted by: MAKK | Mar 17 2023 17:48 utc | 62
They caught Putin while he was speeding on the autobahn. Transcript:…
:Officer: May I see your driver’s license?
Driver: I don’t have one. It was revoked when I got my 5th DWI.
Officer: May I see the registration for this vehicle?
Driver: It’s not my car. I stole it. Officer: The car is stolen?
Driver: That’s right. But come to think of it, I think I saw the registration in the glove box when I was putting my gun in there.
Officer: There’s a gun in the glove box?
Driver: Yes sir. That’s where I put it after I shot and killed the woman who owns this car and stuffed her in the trunk.
Officer: There’s a BODY in the TRUNK?!?!?
Driver: Yes, sir.
Hearing this, the officer immediately called his Captain. The car was quickly surrounded by police, and the Captain approached the driver to handle the tense situation:
Captain: Sir, can I see your license?
Driver: Sure. Here it is. It was valid. Captain: Whose car is this?
Driver: It’s mine, officer. Here’s the registration. The driver owned the car.
Captain: Could you slowly open your glove box so I can see if there’s a gun in it?
Driver: Yes, sir, but there’s no gun in it. Sure enough, there was nothing in the glove box.
Captain: Would you mind opening your trunk? I was told you said there’s a body in it.
Driver: No problem. Trunk is opened; no body.
Captain: I don’t understand it. The officer who stopped you said you told him you didn’t have a license, stole the car, had a gun in the glovebox, and that there was a dead body in the trunk.
Driver: Yeah, I’ll bet the lying son of a bitch told you I was speeding, too!
Posted by: DALE FERGUSON | Mar 17 2023 17:48 utc | 63
Please folk, move on from the ICC’s nonsense. Don’t honor it with a notice.
Posted by: Steve | Mar 17 2023 17:16 utc | 51
Why not? And let’s not forget there are no sanctions from Russia for the these people/countries. All this behavior (and I’m sure more will follow) is created in part by Russia, they’re confused and paralyzed since 2014. Look at how many were killed by exploding cars in the last 12 months. Forgotten. Has anyone seen the nazi azov trial? An answer for the tortured soldiers? For the petal mines? ZNPP shelling? Everything ignored. And those are real events, not imaginary like the hague story. The West can kill or arrest any Russian they like, no consequences even if it’s Putin.
Posted by: rk | Mar 17 2023 17:53 utc | 64
“Whats Putin going to say about the need follow international laws now ?
Posted by: Deplorable Commisar | Mar 17 2023 16:02 utc | 19”
LoL the ICC is a European puppet court.
Even the US threatened its judges when they tried to investigate US war crimes.
LoL
Posted by: Comandante | Mar 17 2023 17:57 utc | 65
Whats Putin going to say about the need follow international laws now ?
That it should be truly international. Deplorably deplorable.
Posted by: Paco | Mar 17 2023 18:01 utc | 66
@ 17 | Paul Greenwood
…
Emperor of All The Americas is not subject to ICC. US refuses to subject Blackwater to ICC and prefers to jail Chelsea Manning……….
@ Norwegian | 20
…
“Russia is not a party to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court and does not bear any obligations under it.” “Russia does not cooperate with this body, and possible “recipes” for arrest coming from the International Court will be legally null and void for us,” the diplomat added.
This is the end of the ICC
…
Well, surely this new move of the West – obviously now trying to grab really *anything* suitable as a weapon against the Russians even *anyhow* – simply may enrage people like you and many others, leave them speechlessly shaking their heads instead or issueing calls for simply ignoring it due to being utter nonsense. Further on, one can as well make sober assessments in the end regarding that matter as only laughable and irrelevant for the reasons mentioned. But still, 10 years ago, Bush had seen necessity of offering sheer violence by threatening to invade even the allied Netherlands, should a suspected US-war-criminal ever get charged at the ICC.
Now considering the stunning stupidity of the collective West already proven, IMO no one should ever underestimate the possibilities arising from *that* situation for (without any rank order here) the most stupid Western protagonists in terms of fucking things up by this burning match in an even more dangerous way than had happened up to now.
Even if Mrs. S. seems to have dismissed the whole thing easily, and even if RoW may recognize the West’s noble plans as what they are, hopefully the Russians are nonetheless about to develop corresponding plans for Mr. Putins coming voyages abroad.
Posted by: Yogi | Mar 17 2023 18:02 utc | 67
The more they personalize the struggle and Russia is no longer itself but Putin, the bigger his image becomes for the 85% of the world population that finally realizes that telling Uncle Sam and his minions to fuck off is not only possible but salutary.
Posted by: Paco | Mar 17 2023 18:12 utc | 68
Posted by: suzan | Mar 16 2023 19:40 utc | 3
Thanks for that Scott Ritter link. I feel the same way he does, I am *very* angry about the role the US is playing. Without the US none of this is happening.
Posted by: chunga | Mar 17 2023 18:13 utc | 69
What I don’t get is why Russians are morons who can only say ICC doesn’t apply to them in response. Go on fucking offensive, loudly admit that yes, children were moved to Russia, then show 2 min long documentary of all the kids murdered by nazi bombardment in actual genocide, show monument to dead kids in Donbass, then say that’s why they were moved – to save their lives. Saving kids is universal language understood everywhere. Make a mockery out of court punishing good deed, not surrender with that lame non-defense. Hire some PR company that will make better response than just stuttering ‘court sucks’, try to actually convince undecided people you’re in the right…
Posted by: Mr V | Mar 17 2023 17:44 utc | 61
It’s not particularly hard hitting but the RT article about the ICC ruling currently on the RT front page does give the reasons for the evacuation:
The Russian authorities have evacuated thousands of residents from Donetsk, Lugansk, Zaporozhye and Kherson – four regions that overwhelmingly voted to join Russia last September – to the interior, due the deliberate shelling of civilians by Ukrainian forces, often using NATO-supplied weapons.
If you’re talking about reaching Western audiences, realize that nothing the Russian government or media says (other than cherry picked “strategic excerpts”) is going to be reproduced in Western media. Where would you expect Western audiences to see this two minute video you propose? Do you think CNN or NBC is going to show it? Do you think it’s going to rocket to the top of people’s youtube recommendations? Is a western PR firm going to risk sanctions so it can spit into the wind of a disinterested/hostile media space?
Posted by: Mike314159 | Mar 17 2023 18:23 utc | 70
Can recommend Scott Ritter video (48m) link @ Morongobill | Mar 17 2023 16:03 utc | 21
Covers a lot of territory in general terms that will be accessible to the average Joe. Looses his cool & judgement a little by publicly naming names & seriously kickin’ rhetorical ass. Significant personal risk-taking, more power to him. Discovered he would be considered by MSM_of_Lies anti-capitalist, socialist maybe even a commie pinko! Well met Scott. LOL.
Disagree with his speculation/concept of an acceptable negotiated peace (frozen conflict, mid Ukraine DMZ) likely to be initiated & brokered by China in short term re conflict events. Cannot envisage RF accepting less than proposed plus Black Sea coast to Transnistria & Odessa, minimum. Suspect if that’s not on offer RF would poison pill it to enable Ukraine to reject it, thence subsequent freedom of action to Poland’s borders etc excluding Galicia. Release the Dogs of War.
In any case, Cocaine Hed Zed has no authority or independence of action to agree to squat, the Empires minimal goal re this conflict was Odessa and basing rights on Crimea, minimum Odessa, full stop. RF cannot permit either & Empire won’t accept less IMV. Therefor Empire abandons proxy & RF concludes the conflict, thence proceeds to rollback NATO to 1990’s borders, indivisible security treaties as demanded, non negotiable dec’21.
Posted previously, here’s an article re the reference to China’s Military Analysis re AFU prospects, end of SMO, ie AFU comprehensive defeat/collapse NLT summer:
Behind Ukraine peace proposal, China foresees end to war in summer – Mar9’23
Simulation by military academy prompts Beijing to push cease-fire plan
BEIJING — After avoiding getting too deeply involved in Russia’s war in Ukraine over the past year, China suddenly offered a peace proposal last month. Chinese military experts’ prediction that the war will come to an end this summer is likely behind this about-face.
When over 200 world leaders and senior officials gathered in Munich for last month’s security conference, Wang Yi, China’s top diplomat, told the attendees that China would soon announce a plan to become a mediator in the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
Will see if can dig up something more substantive, unclassified version of report …
If one examines a stock photo of the Reaper drone, one will observe that from a head-on attack the propeller is unavailable as the drone’s tailfins extend to a height that makes the attack on the propeller impossible without damaging the plane.
Since the only feasible attack on the propeller using the plane is from the rear and that possibility has been eliminated, the only possibility left is that the fuel dump with its weight and the speed of the plane being transferred to the forward edge of the dump, it hit the propeller at such an optimum force and angle that the propeller was bent.
This conclusion would be supported by the fact that the drone’s systems reacted to the force of the fuel dump a millisecond after the second plane’s pass. As well, FWIW, the Russian MOD was adamant the neither of the panes directly contacted the drone at any time
Posted by: chet380 | Mar 17 2023 18:45 utc | 72
Accuastions of whataboutisme only work on weak-willed minds and complete idiots
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 17 2023 17:34 utc | 58
Which is the vast majority of the population.
The conversation goes like this.
A: Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia bad.
B: But the US invaded Iraq.
A: That’s whataboutism. And Iraq invasion was not supported by the EU.
B: But the EU didn’t sanction the US and didnt deliver bombs and tanks to Saddam.
A: Because Saddam was an evil dictator.
Even so Norwegian believes this won’t end with doomsday nukes.
Posted by: Vikichka | Mar 17 2023 18:49 utc | 73
@ Marvin | Mar 17 2023 17:33 utc | 57
…
Just follow the example of US, issue arrest warrants against the judges and threaten military action against the Netherlands, and the investigation goes away:
https://www.france24.com/en/20180910-usa-trump-threatens-arrest-icc-judges-american-soldiers-afghan-war-crimes
Aside from the main objective of the West’s actual political move, exactly to have the Russians behave the way described might be the Value-West’s further aim in order to »prove« the Russians (and their alleged »freebootery«, same for the Chinese) being just the same than the US.
Posted by: Yogi | Mar 17 2023 18:54 utc | 74
As many folk have said the ICC is going after Putin, not that long ago the court decided to go after the USA on war crimes, the US president sanctioned the ICC staff on the case, and the staff backed down, and the USA retains the right (in US law) to invade the ICC if it arrests any American or ally it deems shouldn’t arrested and charged with crimes.
The ICC has lost its credibility.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Mar 17 2023 18:54 utc | 75
n reaction to some posts, and in general:
Crimes, in particular crimes against humanity and war crimes, can not be overlooked or dismissed. They should be credibly established and punished wherever they have been committed and by whomever.
Good lawyers do not “peddle” anything, they do their job with integrity, professionally, fairly and impartially because truth is not “optional”.
People who join the discussion at MoA should be interested in whether the Russian forces or authorities at any level have committed international crimes. They should also be interested in whether the Russian authorities are taking the necessary measures to prevent crimes and to punish them when they occur.
That is a very important indicator of Russia’s credibility, domestically and internationally. Especially when it is promoting a better world based on the respect for international law. Allegations of crimes need to always be taken seriously, regardless of the fact that there are, and will be false claims and accusations. Don’t forget, real people are victims of such crimes which are always grave and often unspeakably horrenodus.
It turns out that yesterday the Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine (formed by the UN Human Rights Council) submitted its new report and its president held a press conference in Geneva.
Summary of the findings:
– The body of evidence collected shows that Russian authorities have committed a wide range of violations of international human rights law and international humanitarian law in many regions of Ukraine and in the Russian Federation.
– Many of these amount to war crimes and include wilful killings, attacks on civilians, unlawful confinement, torture,
rape, and forced transfers and deportations of children.
– The Commission has concluded that Russian armed forces have carried out attacks with explosive weapons in populated areas with an apparent disregard for civilian harm and suffering. It has documented indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks, and a failure to take precautions, in violation of international humanitarian law.
– The Commission has found that the Russian armed forces’ waves of attacks, starting 10 October 2022, on Ukraine’s energy-related infrastructure and the use of torture by Russian authorities may amount to crimes against humanity. It recommends further investigations.
– The Commission has documented a small number of violations committed by Ukrainian armed forces, including likely indiscriminate attacks and two incidents that qualify as war crimes.
The report is available here:
https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/coiukraine/A_HRC_52_62_AUV_EN.pdf
We should first of all be informed. We should also be interested in whether these allegations are true or not, and any others in the future. It is important to follow the Russian reaction, critically not emotionally, because reactions to allegations of war crimes are telling int many ways.
As Buddha said: There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting.
Posted by: JB | Mar 17 2023 18:55 utc | 76
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 17 2023 17:34 utc | 58
Accuastions of whataboutisme only work on weak-willed minds and complete idiots, because comparisons and proofs of double standards and hypocrisy are perfectly valid, and it’s perfectly normal to wonder why nothing has been done during decades when it comes past grievous grievances, but suddenly the New Thing has to be dealt with with extreme prejudice right now, as if it’s way worse than similar or worse past crimes.
The trick they are using is to use arguments that are completely baseless, so nonsensical that if you are arguing in good faith you are at a loss as to how to respond to such blather. Whataboutism is pointing to another’s bad behavior to excuse one’s own, similar behavior. Pointing out the West’s hypocrisy is asking people to look inward, examine one’s own actions, before accusing others (and it has a lot of basis in Christian teachings, for what it’s worth). It’s actually 180 degrees from whataboutism, but that certainly doesn’t stop them. It’s the sheer idiocy of their argument, and its constant repetition, that has the effect.
Then there’s the phony moral outrage expressed by Westerners over Russia’s invasion. Suddenly, everyone is a drama queen, hurry, pass the smelling salts. It’s all a pathetic attempt to avoid confronting the criminality of the West, especially the US, in the hope that theatrics will carry the day.
Posted by: Mike R | Mar 17 2023 18:57 utc | 77
Come on now, Empire’s had a terrible week of it, capped off with the possible recovery by RF of high-end western surveillance hardware.
They must’ve had their ICC gimps working on this for a while and pulled the trigger now in an attempt to the hinder the increasingly rapid disintegration of their divide and rule racket.
Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 17 2023 18:59 utc | 78
Eurasian powers must soon arrange for the creation of a new International Criminal Court based in Damascus-Syria and issue mass arrest warrants for the entire Western establishment neocons including Tony Blair, Obama, Bolton, Nuland, Biden, Boris Johnson…
Posted by: maskazer | Mar 17 2023 19:00 utc | 79
Vikichka | Mar 17 2023 18:49 utc | 73
Norwegian is a Europologist, so there is no need to take him too seriously. The ICC will continue to function as it always has, as a subsidised political body issuing proclamations to be used by the European-based secretariat of the Atlanticist community. The US, Russia, China and the majority of the world will continue to ignore those proclamations. And Europe will continue to pretend like it has significance in the modern world.
Posted by: Joe Sixpack | Mar 17 2023 19:06 utc | 80
from the ICC:
Today, 17 March 2023, Pre-Trial Chamber II of the International Criminal Court (“ICC” or “the Court”) issued warrants of arrest for two individuals in the context of the situation in Ukraine: Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin and Ms Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova. Pre-Trial Chamber II considered, based on the Prosecution’s applications of 22 February 2023, that there are reasonable grounds to believe that each suspect bears responsibility for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population and that of unlawful transfer of population from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation, in prejudice of Ukrainian children. . .here
The Judges of the Court are listed on the ICC site starting with:
Judge Piotr Hofmański (Poland), President
Judge Luz del Carmen Ibáñez Carranza (Peru), First Vice-President
We don’t know who is in “Pre-Trial Chamber II” but the pre-trial judges are listed (along with trial and appeal judges).
Pre-Trial Division
Judge Antoine Kesia-Mbe Mindua (Democratic Republic of the Congo)
Judge Marc Perrin de Brichambaut (France)
Judge Péter Kovács (Hungary)
Judge Tomoko Akane (Japan)
Judge Reine Alapini-Gansou (Benin)
Judge Rosario Salvatore Aitala (Italy)
Judge María del Socorro Flores Liera (Mexico)
Judge Sergio Gerardo Ugalde Godínez (Costa Rica) . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 17 2023 19:07 utc | 81
Thats it. The US now have the excuse they need to hunt him down, which means a massive escalation is on the cards.
Posted by: Night Tripper | Mar 17 2023 19:16 utc | 82
Posted by: JB | Mar 17 2023 18:55 utc
“Crimes, in particular crimes against humanity and war crimes, can not be overlooked or dismissed. They should be credibly established and punished wherever they have been committed and by whomever.”
Well that sounds fine but how come the US haven’t yet faced any serious ICC criminal proceedings after it launched so many illegal wars around the world killing people at weddings, schools… using depleted uranium bombs on civilian targets and so many other serious crimes? The International community is patiently waiting to see that happen.
Posted by: maskazer | Mar 17 2023 19:17 utc | 83
Posted by: maskazer | Mar 17 2023 19:17 utc | 83
The obvious answer is that they are perusing their version of reality; applying the rules and presenting evidence to support the conclusions they prefer. Anyone that thinks these state sponsored investigations are going to be impartial with truth the ultimate objective is either a fool or a liar.
Posted by: JMW | Mar 17 2023 19:27 utc | 84
maskazer | Mar 17 2023 19:17 utc | 83
US Sanctions on the International Criminal Court
On September 2, 2020, the United States government imposed sanctions on the International Criminal Court (ICC) prosecutor, Fatou Bensouda, and another senior prosecution official, Phakiso Mochochoko. In addition, US Secretary of State Michael Pompeo announced that the United States had restricted the issuance of visas for certain unnamed individuals “involved in the ICC’s efforts to investigate US personnel.”
Under Executive Order 13928, the “Executive Order on Blocking Property Of Certain Persons Associated With The International Criminal Court,” US officials added Fatou Bensouda, the ICC prosecutor, and Phakiso Mochochoko, the head of a division within the prosecutor’s office, to the Specially Designated Nationals and Blocked Persons List (the SDN List). This list is maintained by the US Department of Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC).
Their designation had two immediate effects. First, any property held by Bensouda and Mochochoko (or the property of any entity of which they own 50 percent or more) in the United States became “blocked.” Although any property they might have in the US has not been seized, they would not be able to exercise any rights over it, including use or sale. In addition, US persons or entities located anywhere in the world would not be able to transact with or provide services to either Bensouda or Mochochoko, unless they received a license to do so from the US government. US “persons” are defined under the executive order as “any United States citizen, permanent resident alien, entity organized under the laws of the United States or any jurisdiction within the United States (including foreign branches), or any person in the United States.”
Second, all property that might belong to Bensouda or Mochochoko that comes within a US jurisdiction would be “blocked.” Because the vast majority of international trade is conducted via the US dollar this has potentially broad implications. US dollar-denominated transactions—even if they are between two non-US parties—usually require a bank under US jurisdiction to handle the transactions. Thus, any transaction that passes through them, even momentarily, would also be blocked.
In addition, Bensouda and Mochochoko, who were sanctioned as individuals, and their immediate family members are presumed to be subject to US visa restrictions under the terms of the executive order.
Posted by: Rudolph | Mar 17 2023 19:28 utc | 85
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 17 2023 16:06 utc | 23
If Ukraine doesn’t reinforce the Bakhmut/Chasov Yar and other parts of the front in the north with the new Nato toys, they will eventually lose everything. They should be playing slow tactical withdrawal game with layered defense (i.e. not standing in one encirclable position to the death). Bakhmut played directly into Russian hands in my opinion, it already contributed significantly weakening any “coming greatest offensive”.
That’s not to say they won’t still launch an offensive in the south, in Zelensky’s mind everything and anything is worth it if they have any chance of reaching places like Melitopol or Mariupol or Crimean border. The Russians simply need enough layered defenses and stuff and lot of airpower down south. Mark Milley and Austin and Sunak and Biden have told Zelensky that this will be one of his last chances.
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 17 2023 19:31 utc | 86
JB @ 76. I am afraid to say that the Section of the report you cite from the UN Human Rights Dept is fundamentally flawed. In the first instance, the allegations made about rape and torture were comprehensively stated by the Ukrainian Human Rights Officer as being utter lies and admitted in an interview that she had made them because she had gone to Italy to discuss financial assistance for Ukraine and the Italians were not inclined to give it. She was sacked by the Ukrainian Parliament because when they tried to investigate the allegations they found no evidence at all to substantiate them. Secondly, the Russians have used high precision weapons to target military sites thus, the civilian casualties are extremely low compared to say, USA invasions of other countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan Yugoslavia etc. Let’s be clear about this, it is Ukraine that is indiscriminately shelling civilians in the Donbass, specifically Donetsk as a result of which over 8yrs around 30,000 civilians including children have been killed. They are still doing it. Thirdly, the attacks on the electricity grids by Russia are considered to be standard acts of war to weaken an enemy. Lt Col Douglas McGregor clearly stated that in Yugoslavia, the USA took out most of the electricity structure not because it was necessary but because of a ‘Why Not? or Just In Case philosophy.
The report is worthless and the Charges on the Arrest Warrant are worthless. However, I note the report you quote also says they found some ‘minor violations’ by Ukraine two of which would amount to War Crimes. They must have missed Patrick Lancaster’s comprehensive video diaries since 2014 which is a clear, damning, shocking record of the crimes committed by the Ukrainian Army. They have clearly ignored the videos from Ukrainian Soldiers taken by them of the summary execution of Russian POW’s totally against the Geneva Convention. They have obviously ignored the sacking of the Ukrainian Human Rights Officer by Parliament for the pack of lies she told. They also have appeared to totally ignore the legitimate complains by Russian POWs about their brutal treatment and breaches of the Ukrainian Army.
for God’s sake, the UN and ICC is meant to be impartial it clearly isn’t. If they have evidence of two Ukrainian War Crimes then Arrest Warrants should be issued for Zelensky and the now seriously discredited Human Rights Officer.
Talk about a crap report, this is the epitome of one. Yes, people deserve to know the truth but that truth should be impartial, fair and accountable for all parties involved including the collective West, Ukraine, Russia and other countries.
Posted by: Jo Dominich | Mar 17 2023 19:36 utc | 87
” Whats Putin going to say about the need follow international laws now ?
That it should be truly international. Deplorably deplorable.
Posted by: Paco | Mar 17 2023 18:01 utc | 66 ”
Please let us know how ” international laws ” can be enforced against nations like China, Russia, the US and most of all Israhell ? The fact is they cant, therofore, there is no such thing as international law, never was. Its just BS to keep weaker nations under control. When Putin mentions it constantly hes being disengenous.
Posted by: Deplorable Commisar | Mar 17 2023 19:39 utc | 88
On one Hand – in 12% of the world this ICC arrest warrant will be seen as striking a blow against the evil mad dog dictator.
On the other hand – 87% of the world is now going do learn that Washington threatened the ICC if the ICC even hinted at starting a investigation into the myriad of War Crimes committed.
Streisand Effect big time
LOL
Posted by: Exile | Mar 17 2023 19:39 utc | 89
The bottom line is, basically, that this can only end with the genuine defeat of one side. It means that, for Russia, this means dismantling NATO and EU, dissolving ICC, possibly UN, and putting the likes of Borrell, BoJo, Duda and Von der Leyen on trial for war crimes.
I, of course, would be fine with the latter, and actually would be delighted. Most interestingly, Russia and China have the death penalty (same for India, for that matter).
But really, these dumb fucks truly want it to be a death-match.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 17 2023 19:41 utc | 90
Posted by: maskazer | Mar 17 2023 19:17 utc | 83
You pose the important question – why haven’t any US officials been indicted by the ICC when so many US crimes are known to have been committed.
The ICC is a relatively new court and is still getting its bearings in a hostile international environment.
The current prosecutor, who I mentioned in an earlier post today, discontinued the investigation into potential US crimes in Afghanistan, and kept the investigation into potential Taliban crimes. At the same time, he has shown extraordinary enthusiasm for pursuing investigations related to some US targets, like Venezuela for example. His Office is silent on the criminal complaints filed before it for crimes against humanity regarding Covid.
Hе has acted openly politically in regard to Ukraine, and now there is international arrest warrant for Putin, announced today. Putin is now officially an alleged war criminal, which will affect his standing.
In my view, the Proseuctor has damaged the ICC Office of the Prosecutor to such an extent that repairing it standing and credibility will be hard.
Why not the US? Because fear of the US permeates all spheres of international life. The US has imposed sanctions on ICC judges, has inacted legislation that would allow the invasion of The Hague should any US citizens be subjected to ICC jurisdiction and has threatened in various other ways.
In any case, in the current state of world affairs, and with the current ICC Prosecutor, the US and its club are safe.
Posted by: JB | Mar 17 2023 19:42 utc | 91
Mr V @ 61. You are right actually. It is a fact though that none of that would be reported by the Collective West MSM. However, I agree with you, that is exactly what Russia should do for it’s allies in the ROW who will get it out there.
Posted by: Jo Dominich | Mar 17 2023 19:43 utc | 92
🇵🇱🇸🇰✈️🇺🇦🇷🇺The Command of the Air Forces of Ukraine called the MiG-29 obsolete and ineffective
According to the representative of the command, Yuri Ignat, there are currently five brigades of tactical fighter aircraft in the country
MiG-29 fighters, which Poland and Slovakia intend to transfer to Kiev, are outdated and ineffective in the fight against cruise missiles and drones. This was stated on Friday by the representative of the command of the Air Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Yuriy Ignat.
“The Soviet equipment that we have in service, namely these MiGs, is not an effective weapon against cruise missiles and drones. Because the equipment there is morally outdated – both missiles and airborne radar stations. They cannot effectively carry out these functions,” Ignat said on the Rada TV channel, commenting on the plans of Poland and Slovakia to transfer the MiG-29 to Kiev.
He added that there are currently five brigades of tactical fighter aircraft in Ukraine. Of these, two consist of Su-27, three of MiG-29. However, the potential of the Ukrainian Air Force, according to Ignat, is still insufficient to organize a counteroffensive.
“I understand that everyone wants a quick counteroffensive. But these planes cannot significantly increase the combat potential in order to strike,” he said.
Polish President Andrzej Duda said on Thursday that Ukraine will receive the first four MiG-29 fighters from Warsaw in the coming days. On Friday, Slovak Prime Minister Eduard Heger announced that the country’s authorities approved the transfer of 13 MiG-29 aircraft to Kiev. The Acting Minister of Economy of the Republic specified that the process will take several weeks.
https://t.me/azmilitary11/41172
Posted by: Down South | Mar 17 2023 19:43 utc | 93
@ Kadath | Mar 17 2023 16:52 utc | 42
The ICC is so clever here thinking that member states will arrest Putin what they don’t realize is that member states will simply drop their membership instead
….
Whether really the ICC’s cleverness had been at work here, is, at least up to now, all but clear. Aside from that, the abovementioned scenario is still only one of several possibilities – just noting RoW still staying mostly silent towards the West’s behavior and his military-political strategy towards perpetuating its dominance over all the world, with those only rare exceptions disregarded here.
If, as only lately, the US-President and a certain old European Lady still can really blurt out threats of »punishing« any country in the world (that means, punishing the whole world or RoW) in case of not adhering to the West’s orders concerning Russia from now on, that means – instead of them »not knowing where to start at all« with that – all the world’s countries still standing in that same old-fashioned row one after another.
Posted by: Yogi | Mar 17 2023 19:45 utc | 94
Dedicated to those that think Russia cant be prosecuted by the ICC because its not a signatory. Question for you. Is Ukraine a signatory ?
The reason the US threathend military force against the ICC is because it does have jurisdiction over non-signatories under certain conditions.
” The Reach of ICC Jurisdiction Over
Non-Signatory Nationals
A new International Criminal Court (ICC) was created on July
17, 1998 under the Rome Statute adopted by the United Nations
Diplomatic Conference on Plenipotentiaries on the Establishment of
an International Criminal Court.’ Under the Statute, the ICC will
have jurisdiction over crimes of genocide, certain crimes against
humanity, and certain war crimes, leaving the crime of aggression
for further definition.2
Nonetheless, there are certain preconditions to the exercise of
such jurisdictional competence, as noted especially in Articles 12-14
of the Statute. In general, the Court can exercise jurisdiction if a
“situation” or case (1) is referred to the Prosecutor by a State Party
to the treaty, (2) is referred to the Prosecutor by the U.N. Security
Council, or (3) is under an investigation initiated by the Prosecutor
proprio motu.3 Article 12 adds that when a State Party has referred ”
https://scholarship.law.vanderbilt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1719&context=vjtl
Posted by: Deplorable Commisar | Mar 17 2023 19:46 utc | 95
I’m wondering if the ICC gambit is designed to prevent Putin’s travel to ICC signatory countries. They might be able to cause enough of a fuss that he is dissuaded from some destinations.
Or, they sense that the Western public “bad Putin” sentiment they manufactured needs some shoring up.
Posted by: Bruce Berry | Mar 17 2023 19:47 utc | 96
Re: ICC nonsense
The west continues to win the “narrative shaping” war while losing the physics-based war.
As others point out, the ICC is a court that the US does not even recognize. And went so far as to impose sanctions on its judges. It’s changing the subject time.
Empire losing badly in Bakhmut … hey, look over there, war criminal!
Posted by: Chris | Mar 17 2023 19:49 utc | 97
@Joe Sixpack | Mar 17 2023 19:06 utc | 80
LOL, I have been labeled. Joe Sixpack must have been hurt by hearing some truth for that to happen.
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 17 2023 19:50 utc | 98
The battle for Artemovsk – the situation on the morning of 03/17/23
The situation in this direction for the Armed Forces of Ukraine is rapidly deteriorating.
Moreover, the point is not even that the “Wagners” are actively storming the western and central parts of the city and achieving success there. And not that the enemy garrison is doomed here.
The main problem of the enemy is that despite desperate efforts and the transfer of reserves to the Orekhovo-Vasilevka area, the “musicians” go ahead and tear the main outer defense contour of the Slavic-Kramatorsk agglomeration, based on the prevailing heights.
Yesterday, our units continued to bypass (along these same heights) Orekhovo-Vasilevka from the north and from the south, and as a whole surrounded the village from three sides, and on the one hand, the “musicians” were already in it. And now the main point of the battle is the heights northwest of the village, which constitute the very main watershed, along which, in fact, the Seversky Donets-Donbass canal runs and which is the backbone of this important enemy defense line.
Moreover, the village of Novomarkovo is already a little “behind the ridge” and it is from it that the slow descent to Slavyansk and Kramatorsk begins. Moreover, control over this point provides excellent positions for observing and adjusting fire on the fortified areas of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the settlements of Privolye and Minkovsk (located in relation to them in a lowland). And taking them will be a verdict for the enemy garrisons in these villages.
And only then, obviously (after fixing on this line), the movement to the Ray-Aleksandrovka area will continue – the sentence is already on the enemy’s Seversk grouping.
And according to exactly the same scheme, PMC “Wagner” yesterday and today is trying to surround Bogdanovka and occupy this key settlement for the final cutting off of Artemovsk’s supply routes. After that, the umbilical cord, through which the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is trying to supply the garrison in the city, can even not be physically cut. The primer located in the lowland, moreover, washed out by mudslides, will be shot through from two sides at once and will become a real road of death for those who try to enter or leave the city.
@Geroman/TG
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 17 2023 19:51 utc | 99
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 17 2023 19:31 utc
We have a proverb in Persian : If the bald guy was a doctor, he would have remedied his own head first. That’s to say if Zelinski and UAE are so eager to launch a major offensive towards Crimea, then why are they losing so badly in Bakhmut, and Avdeevka…?
Posted by: maskazer | Mar 17 2023 19:55 utc | 100