Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
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March 12, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-60
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
from Gilbert Doctorow’s latest. A sensible prediction of how the cookie will crumble: Posted by: Elmagnostic | Mar 13 2023 3:29 utc | 201 where even the red cross get in a tape people to poles in some sort of humiliation punishment torture act. Posted by: hankster | Mar 13 2023 3:46 utc | 202 Re: Posted by: Down South | Mar 12 2023 18:36 utc | 75 Posted by: Julian | Mar 13 2023 3:48 utc | 203 @ Mike R 128 Posted by: Giyane | Mar 13 2023 3:55 utc | 204 Our source reports that the Russians are hitting the only highway from Bakhmut/Artemovsk…. Posted by: Kellen Cramer | Mar 13 2023 4:10 utc | 205 Shitbird trolls need to listen… Latest from Andrei Martyanov, for the haters… Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 13 2023 4:14 utc | 206 Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Mar 12 2023 22:40 utc | 142 Posted by: Ed | Mar 13 2023 4:15 utc | 207 “Отечество в опасности!”. Some are convinced that if the US can deliver a massive first strike on its enemy, let’s say Russia or China, then the US can survive a nuclear conflagration…. Posted by: Kellen Cramer | Mar 13 2023 4:38 utc | 209 But Americans need to understand what happened during that 10 years and the impression it left in the minds of many Russians and the degree to which people in Russia accept that it was Putin who pulled them out of it. Posted by: juliania | Mar 13 2023 4:52 utc | 210 You are going to war with a nuclear super-power on it’s territorial border Posted by: Dingo | Mar 13 2023 4:53 utc | 211
Well duh, particulate matter and co2 are not the same. What I said is there isn’t nowhere near enough nuclear yield in the entire world to emit enough particulate matter from detonations to cover even a small fraction of the atmosphere.
Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Mar 13 2023 4:59 utc | 212 Where is the strategic calculus in this reality? Posted by: Kellen Cramer | Mar 13 2023 5:17 utc | 213 Not sure if English is your first language but this expression is an oxymoron.
RB, as English doesn’t seem to be your first language, (more correct usage would be for you yourself to say “I’m not sure…”) I’ve helpfully bolded your extracted phrase within the complete passage posted by Dan Farrand. You may disagree with the argument, but in this instance there is no oxymoron, since I myself believe that it was indeed a faction of the US (referred to often as the ‘one percent’ or decimal percentages even smaller thereof) that perpetrated the actions in question. Posted by: juliania | Mar 13 2023 5:26 utc | 214 @ Kellen Cramer | Mar 13 2023 4:38 utc | 206 & 211
@ Longhorn | Mar 13 2023 1:06 utc | 175
@ MervRitchie | Mar 13 2023 3:04 utc | 194
Three trolls in a pod. The last, a shallow spare sock. Then, there’s FieryButMostPeaceful … & banned.
If they really believe that, then they’re far more stupid than they appear to be. A nuclear war is economically devastating for a country — Russia has enough nukes to take out most US military bases and defense infrastructure in a second strike. And China has the industrial capacity to make them during an all out total war. The country will be left defenseless. People will pull their money. That would collapse the US economy to a banana republic on a permanent basis with perpetual riots and social unrest. The neocons would have to find jobs sweeping floors.
How ironic. You have a nice day now Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Mar 13 2023 5:49 utc | 216 @Tim | Mar 12 2023 22:38 utc | 141
Even if we limit ourselves to the history of modern Man, Krakatoa was a relative minor event, and certainly no extinction event. Another eruption in ~534 was much larger, causing the start of the “dark ages” with civilization descending into disarray for decades. However, this pales in comparison to the massive extinction event ~12800 years ago caused by the comet strike on the Laurentide ice sheet over North America, wiping out the North American megafauna overnight due to continent-wide bombardment of ice boulders (secondary impactors ejected from the main site over the great lakes), also creating the curious Carolina Bays. Looking at megalithic sites all around the world (Peru, Bolivia, Egypt, Turkey, India, China, …) it is clear that an advanced world-wide civilization existed before that time, but it did not survive the Younger Dryas comet impact that made temperatures drop 15C for ~1000 years due to ice crystals in orbit. It took about ~7000 years for civilization to re-constitute itself in Mesopotamia and Egypt after that. Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 13 2023 5:56 utc | 217
https://twitter.com/GraphicW5/status/1635140899045818369 Posted by: Down South | Mar 13 2023 5:58 utc | 218 All western main-stream media Posted by: Dingo | Mar 13 2023 5:59 utc | 219 Re: De-Dollarization Posted by: Exile | Mar 13 2023 6:05 utc | 220 @ juliania | Mar 13 2023 4:52 utc | 207 Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 13 2023 6:41 utc | 221
It’s more than that unfortunately. Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 13 2023 8:00 utc | 222 @ juliana 207 Posted by: Giyane | Mar 13 2023 8:24 utc | 223 Posted by: juliania | Mar 13 2023 5:26 utc | 213 Posted by: Tim | Mar 13 2023 8:28 utc | 224
Posted by: Don Firineach | Mar 12 2023 19:31 utc | 93 Posted by: Moscow Exile | Mar 13 2023 9:13 utc | 225 Weeb Union reports, according to Wagner sources, Ukraine has concentrated up to 10 brigades (40k when full strength, probably a lot less) to Chasov yar area and an attack is expected. Posted by: unimperator | Mar 13 2023 9:16 utc | 226 Posted by: banned | Mar 13 2023 5:21 utc | 212 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 13 2023 9:21 utc | 227 In Bakhmut, the cauldron may repeat again, as in Debaltseve in 2015, – officers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Posted by: unimperator | Mar 13 2023 9:22 utc | 228 Великая Отечественная война 1941 – 1945 гг. Posted by: Moscow Exile | Mar 13 2023 9:23 utc | 229 Posted by: unimperator | Mar 13 2023 9:22 utc | 229 Posted by: unimperator | Mar 13 2023 9:24 utc | 230 Posted by: Ed | Mar 13 2023 4:15 utc | 204 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 13 2023 9:25 utc | 231 This is very interesting, these meetings btwn head honchos are never advanced, always very formal and planned months before, even in an emergency it’s protocol to never show it, you show urgency to make peace, shuttle diplomacy style, but you play it cool to make war. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Mar 13 2023 9:38 utc | 232
Posted by: Down South | Mar 13 2023 9:57 utc | 233 About these rumors of counter-attack on Bakhmut and Ukraine sending new divisions, I’m trying hard to see where they might attack, and it looks fishy, or suicidal. The whole place is damn muddy now, rasputitsa came early and videos from cars and trucks stuck in the middle are quite bad. Besides, I can’t see how they hope to make a genuine pincer attack like Operation Uranus, since it would mean one push would have to come from inside Bakhmut, which can barely be reinforced. The only 2 options I can see is an armored push from NW from Slovyansk towards Krasna Gora or a direct infantry assault on a wide part of the frontline – no major motorized assault on the flanks is realistic now. Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 13 2023 9:57 utc | 234
https://t.me/IntelRepublic/16215 Posted by: Down South | Mar 13 2023 9:59 utc | 235
https://t.me/azmilitary11/40636 Posted by: Down South | Mar 13 2023 10:01 utc | 236 Posted by: banned | Mar 13 2023 5:08 utc | 210 Posted by: Greg Galloway | Mar 13 2023 10:03 utc | 237
Posted by: Down South | Mar 13 2023 10:05 utc | 238 Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Mar 13 2023 4:59 utc | 209 Posted by: Greg Galloway | Mar 13 2023 10:15 utc | 239
https://t.me/azmilitary11/40645 Posted by: Down South | Mar 13 2023 10:16 utc | 240 #238 Posted by: Dingo | Mar 13 2023 10:23 utc | 241 “🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇦Situation in the Avdeevka Region: 12:00 13/03/2023 Posted by: unimperator | Mar 13 2023 10:24 utc | 242 Nobody in the West can understand, because again, that sort of degeneracy was always present there and it has also always been seen as a personal failure and something you deserve. Posted by: Yuri | Mar 13 2023 10:38 utc | 243 Re: De-Dollarization Posted by: financial matters | Mar 13 2023 10:45 utc | 244 Down South – 237 Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 13 2023 10:54 utc | 245 John Kennard@198…ah, the Knights of Nee, Norman English Evangelicals…. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Mar 13 2023 11:27 utc | 247 Yuri @247. For the “West” substitute the “Jews” and that would shed light from another angle. Though of course it’s all in tandem and they might even believe that it was all for the good. Posted by: Ivan | Mar 13 2023 11:34 utc | 248 Yuri [247] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 13 2023 11:38 utc | 249 Ukrainian TV channel “Legitimny” writes that “the office of the President continues to massively transfer all combat-ready units to the Donbass in order to turn the tide of events in the Bakhmutov meat grinder. Posted by: unimperator | Mar 13 2023 11:48 utc | 250 Posted by: Goingo | Mar 13 2023 11:18 utc | 250 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 13 2023 12:05 utc | 251 @ Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 13 2023 5:56 utc | 216 Posted by: DunGroanin | Mar 13 2023 12:30 utc | 252 Residents of Kharkiv Ukraine 🇺🇦, write an appeal to Putin asking for protection, the security of lives.. and the transparency to referendum ballots to be taken seriously by the EU.. in addition they also mentioned that they do not recognize Kiev Nazi Regime. Posted by: unimperator | Mar 13 2023 12:49 utc | 253
Posted by: Down South | Mar 13 2023 13:02 utc | 254 The Ukrainian biolabs story, Pfizer mRNA toxicity & US deep state involvement in Gain of function research in a range of pathogens including Marburg & Covid conspiracy theories just got a huge endorsement from none other than Russian General Kisilov in charge of Russian military biological weapons Defence in an official press release. Posted by: PJB | Mar 13 2023 13:04 utc | 256 @banned, #225, and anyone else Posted by: DakotaRog | Mar 13 2023 13:08 utc | 257 Too lighten the mood , it is reported that a very naughty boy has been summoned by the headmaster immediately for causing a ruckus in the school and classrooms, and ignoring whilst being very rude about the teachers and other students! And even the school itself. Posted by: DunGroanin | Mar 13 2023 13:17 utc | 258 Antarctica is mountains covered in ice and snow, not a large block of ice, be hard to flood that. That’s the problem with Computer models of weather prediction, much the same as lottery number prediction…..best to unplug it, wait three minutes, then plug it back in, like the weather, when it reboots, it’ll provide a new view, subject to change due to planetary trajectory through a field of astral debris. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Mar 13 2023 13:23 utc | 259 For the “West” substitute the “Jews” and that would shed light from another angle. Though of course it’s all in tandem and they might even believe that it was all for the good. Posted by: Yuri | Mar 13 2023 13:57 utc | 260 Posted by: Yuri | Mar 13 2023 13:57 utc | 263 Posted by: Yuri | Mar 13 2023 14:07 utc | 261 Posted by: Yuri | Mar 13 2023 14:07 utc | 264 Posted by: irish al | Mar 13 2023 14:25 utc | 262 The Russians don’t need Bakhmut they already control the highway that runs past it. If Ukraine has hopes of a counter attack they will need Bakhmut. Posted by: OhhCanada | Mar 13 2023 14:43 utc | 263 @ DunGroanin | Mar 13 2023 13:17 utc | 262
Comment:
@227 unimperator Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 13 2023 15:06 utc | 265 Lol bridelayers autocorrect sounds dirty. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 13 2023 15:09 utc | 266 A little Russian Humor: Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 13 2023 15:11 utc | 267 The relevant fact is that if the Greenland, and Antarctica ice sheets melt, sea-level will rise 80 meters. Posted by: Greg Galloway | Mar 13 2023 15:40 utc | 268
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/03/12/academic-journal-maidan-massacre/ Posted by: Apollyon | Mar 13 2023 16:08 utc | 269
Yes, indeed, and when I wrote that Germans keeping their thermostats at 25C while the people who used to keep their windows open in winter were suddenly freezing to death was the two sides of the same coin, I myself only realized that somewhere around 2010. Until then I too thought that it was because of merely incompetent rule, because that was the overwhelming narrative. It was known that the USSR had been surrendered by traitors already by the early 2000s, as various people with inside info started talking, and if you were connected to the right circles, you knew that in the early 1990s already, it just wasn’t openly discussed in mainstream media until about a decade later.
Yes, indeed, and there is a very important additional consideration here. Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 13 2023 16:08 utc | 270 Finnish PM wants to sent fighter jest to Ukraine, without discussing it with her government, she’s also a well know Bilderberger and WEF member. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Mar 13 2023 16:10 utc | 271 @ Republicofscotland | Mar 13 2023 16:10 utc | 274 @ Moscow Exile | Mar 13 2023 9:13 utc | 226 Posted by: Don Firineach | Mar 13 2023 16:20 utc | 273 Shame to see @197 passed over by the discussion. Safe to say that whatever happens, strategic nuclear war would be very bad, especially for those of us in the firing line. Posted by: Lachlan | Mar 13 2023 16:23 utc | 274 Do conservatives go on and on about “the WEF” because they’re constitutionally incapable of talking about the ruling class, or even “the power elite” as C. Wright Mills would have it? Yes indeed there are people in charge of our societies, and while many of them visit Davos once a year to be regaled with futurist free enterprise ideology by Klaus Schwab, there is obviously power – and power that is autonomously practiced – beyond the Davos jetset. Posted by: fnord | Mar 13 2023 16:28 utc | 275 🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇦”The goals set by Russia in Ukraine can now be achieved only by military means.” – Dmitry Peskov Posted by: Don Firineach | Mar 13 2023 16:35 utc | 276 hey new Nordstream narrative . fishermen accidentally detonated an old ww2 mine or such with their nets. no im serious im multiple places and shortly apart in time , magic. Posted by: hankster | Mar 13 2023 16:47 utc | 277 @ 272 Thank you for bringing our attention to this. Posted by: Don Firineach | Mar 13 2023 16:55 utc | 278
One can’t just have “petty bourgeois” without it eventually degenerating into rule by oligarchy and then outright fascism. Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 13 2023 16:57 utc | 279 Posted by: Outraged | Mar 13 2023 14:46 utc | 267 Posted by: Milites | Mar 13 2023 17:00 utc | 280 @ Milites | Mar 13 2023 17:00 utc | 283 If no one else is going to suggest it, I wonder if China and Russia are playing good cop, bad cop on the West. Posted by: Eighthman | Mar 13 2023 17:26 utc | 282 Looking at the big picture. Three banks failed in the US over the last few days. Posted by: Golddiggr | Mar 13 2023 17:27 utc | 283 Eighthman @285– Nobody in the West can understand, because again, that sort of degeneracy was always present there and it has also always been seen as a personal failure and something you deserve. Posted by: Golddiggr | Mar 13 2023 17:27 utc | 286 Posted by: Pierrot | Mar 13 2023 17:46 utc | 286 3 banks shutdown:, SVB, Silvergate, Signature, what is next? Posted by: Arata | Mar 13 2023 17:48 utc | 287 reply to 287 Posted by: Eighthman | Mar 13 2023 17:53 utc | 288 Can’t we agree that a class-based analysis of the world works better? Education systems the world over letting so many down that they resort to that nonsense. Posted by: Aleph_Null | Mar 13 2023 17:54 utc | 289 Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 13 2023 16:57 utc | 282 Posted by: alek_a | Mar 13 2023 17:55 utc | 290 Questions for Mr. Putin from a Russian Posted by: Roman | Mar 13 2023 17:56 utc | 291 3 banks shutdown:, SVB, Silvergate, Signature, what is next? Posted by: Exile | Mar 13 2023 17:56 utc | 292 Worthwhile authors such as Jean Paul Sartre can still be found, at this writing. Posted by: Pierrot | Mar 13 2023 18:00 utc | 293 The Psy-Ops work miraculously. Sartre was a mediocre writer and a huge POS. Posted by: Aleph_Null | Mar 13 2023 18:21 utc | 295
Wow, just … wow. China is not just China, in other words. That’s part of the charade so we don’t see what our own ruling classes are up to. Posted by: irish al | Mar 13 2023 18:32 utc | 297 Artyomovsk. Posted by: unimperator | Mar 13 2023 19:27 utc | 298 Eighthman @288– I believe you will find that China is China and does what China does. Your oligarchs do not reach or have influence on policy decisions here. It is not wise to judge China’s actions through the lens of western understanding and culture, such as it is. |
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