Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
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March 9, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-58
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
@OttoE | Mar 9 2023 20:51 utc | 97
That’s not even a troll move, it is a check mate. Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 9 2023 21:04 utc | 101 Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 9 2023 21:04 utc | 104 Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 9 2023 21:08 utc | 102 The volume of Chinese arms supplies to Russia will be the same as the volume of American arms sales to Taiwan” — Chinese Foreign Ministry (https://t.me/china3army/19457) Posted by: unimperator | Mar 9 2023 21:10 utc | 103
How is that not the most obvious bit of misdirection in the entire Hersh article? Clearly the details of an illegal covert operation would not be shared with the members of an Intel Advisory Committee, made up of political appointees. Posted by: How Sausage is Made | Mar 9 2023 21:11 utc | 104 It seems that they finally start asking themselves, what will happen, when (not if)
Never seen an article with more questionmarks. Quite obvious after all, that there is no appropriate way out. Posted by: Udkanten | Mar 9 2023 21:16 utc | 105 Does anyone find it odd that Russia is still effectively supplying Ukraine with oil? Posted by: Johnycomelately | Mar 9 2023 21:17 utc | 106
Worse, the Kremenchug refinery is reportedly running full steam. Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 9 2023 21:21 utc | 107 Latest Andrei for the haters… Haven’t listened to it yet but I believe he discusses the New York Times article. Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 9 2023 21:22 utc | 108 Posted by: Johnycomelately | Mar 9 2023 21:17 utc | 109 Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 9 2023 21:23 utc | 109 Russian television viewers were hit with a fake report of a First Strike by NATO against Russia. Posted by: JesusIsJustAlright1 | Mar 9 2023 21:24 utc | 110 Also an interesting article from Gilbert Doctorow about the mood in Russia.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 9 2023 21:24 utc | 111 The US and Ukraine were the only two countries that opposed a UN General Assembly vote on condemning the NAZI ideology. It is no wonder that the US White House bestowed the International Women of Courage Award on Yulia Paevskaya, who goes by the nickname ‘Taira’ who is a member of the Azov Ukrainian nationalist battalion. Posted by: Krollchem | Mar 9 2023 21:26 utc | 112 @LightYearsFromHome, §63: Posted by: John Marks | Mar 9 2023 21:27 utc | 113 Posted by: James c | Mar 9 2023 20:38 utc | 94 Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 9 2023 21:27 utc | 114 LGB! @71 :” Nobody in Europe is going surrender…” Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 9 2023 21:27 utc | 115 And more official narrative! Posted by: jpc | Mar 9 2023 21:28 utc | 116 Question: Posted by: Derek Henry | Mar 9 2023 21:33 utc | 117 Posted by: Nikkei | Mar 9 2023 19:43 utc | 69: Posted by: Hamish H Wong | Mar 9 2023 21:35 utc | 118 I think cobalt is used in making shells-????-and military equipment??? is there enough to go round considering Posted by: Jo | Mar 9 2023 21:36 utc | 119 However, yet again Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant is running on emergency diesels – the last line of defence. This is the sixth time – let me say it again SIXTH time – that ZNPP has lost all off-site power and has had to operate in this emergency mode. Let me remind you – this is the largest nuclear power station in Europe. What are we doing? How can we sit here in this room this morning and allow this to happen? This cannot go on. Posted by: Pudding | Mar 9 2023 21:37 utc | 120 Derek Henry 120 “Is what is happening in Georgia the result of not finishing this war quickly?” Posted by: dh | Mar 9 2023 21:42 utc | 121 William Gruff – I don’t doubt that they would, I’m just trying to figure out what it would look like. The only experience I have with unconditional surrenders was Germany in 1945 and Japan (other than the Emperor gets to stay) in 1945 as well. I can easily imagine an unconditional surrender when an army occupies a country, but what about when they dont? Or is that the plan? Posted by: LGB! | Mar 9 2023 21:44 utc | 122 presumably ???? that vid western press is so keen to promulgate of a Rus platoon saying they do not want to go to war is a ukrops psyop??? Posted by: Jo | Mar 9 2023 21:45 utc | 123 Neoliberal captured nations don’t have policies aimed at uplifting the public and making the nation stronger, so the attempt to say Russia’s captured by Neoliberalism falls flat on its face when genuine evidence is applied. Time for that troll to drown under its bridge. UAF has committed some of their T-64 and T-72 tanks on the outskirt of Bakhmut, where they got de-militarized. Posted by: unimperator | Mar 9 2023 21:52 utc | 125 Russia has a budget deficit and would need money for its own survival. That’s not surprising that Russia would sell its oil to EU, even at less than 4100₽ per barrel. The whole masquerade about how Russia won’t sell oil below $60 per barril was for internal purpose and nothing else – Like, the decree specified exemptions could be made with the permission of Vladimir Putin. Posted by: Trycep | Mar 9 2023 21:53 utc | 126 Posted by: jpc | Mar 9 2023 21:28 utc | 119 Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 9 2023 21:53 utc | 127 Posted by: Pudding | Mar 9 2023 21:37 utc | 123 Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 9 2023 21:54 utc | 128
Indirectly. Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 9 2023 21:56 utc | 129 @Jo, #122: Posted by: Oriental Voice | Mar 9 2023 22:00 utc | 130 Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 9 2023 21:54 utc | 131 Posted by: unimperator | Mar 9 2023 22:00 utc | 131 Talk of NATO or “empire” surrender is wishful thinking at best. Posted by: How Sausage is Made | Mar 9 2023 22:01 utc | 132 Posted by: Trycep | Mar 9 2023 21:53 utc | 129
Er… https://www.usdebtclock.org/ says “Hold my beer!” Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 9 2023 22:01 utc | 133 How Sausage is Made – That’s kinda what I am thinking here. North/South Korea type situation most likely on 404’s western border, maybe to include Moldova, but probably not any NATO states. I hope I’m wrong, but this is just one spectator’s guess. Maybe trade opens back up, but I just think there is a gonna be a new iron curtain. Posted by: LGB! | Mar 9 2023 22:05 utc | 134 Everyone is fixated on the current duration of the conflict as a long drawn out war….put it in context of the war on terror….or war on drugs…or Vietnam war…or war in Afghanistan or Iraq. This has been just over a year….a special military operation…not a full high in intensity total war like WWii….where one 🕜 f the biggest European armies….supported and trained by NATO has been destroyed multiple times over…where nearly twenty percent of the Ukrainian land mass and a majority of the resources that constitutes it’s GNP are lost….there was time for referendums and a change in operational strategies as well as a partial mobilization in Russia …incidentally Ukraine is on the 8th or ninth mobilization in Ukraine….where 16 to 60 year old males and tens of thousands of females are on the Frontline getting blown away by Wagner… Marine and airborne light infantry. NATO expected and wanted a classic Red Army penetration followed by a intensive Ukrainian insurgency. The fact the Western training cadres where teaching small unit and counter insurgency tactics instead of combined arms manoeuvr warfare doctrine attests to this assumption…plus all the Armour didn’t start moving towards Europe from north America for several months even though 5 eyes knew explicitly of Russian build up and movement. So my contention is this Russian operational tempo is effective. 130 Russian tanks destroyed in Ulgedar is fanciful fantasy…. good rule of thumb by past precedent is MSM is full of shit. I’ve seen reports of high numbers of Ukrainian servicemen testing positive for drugs… similar to the methamphetamine derivative found in the terrorists killed at Beslan… speaking of drugs….U.S lawmakers are using their inside voice to loudly and publicly contemplate military action within Mexico to take on the cartels that are supposedly being armed by Russia…can’t make this stuff up Posted by: Joe | Mar 9 2023 22:06 utc | 135 Complacency is the mother of defeat. Posted by: Jmaas | Mar 9 2023 22:07 utc | 136
He is correct, Russia forecasts a federal budget deficit of 2% of GDP for this fiscal year. Posted by: How Sausage is Made | Mar 9 2023 22:08 utc | 137 @Krollchem, §115: Posted by: John Marks | Mar 9 2023 22:09 utc | 138 What’s worse IMO is that no one within the federal government seems to care as long as the MIC reaps its excess profits and their stocks and dividends continue to climb. Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Mar 9 2023 22:11 utc | 139 I just asked, as an experiment, the AI ChatGPT to give me a timeline of significant military events in Ukraine over the course of the war.
Which still doesn’t explain why it was so off on a lot of major events.
Why the hell it said it’s knowledge cutoff date was in 2021 and then proceeded to give me information for all of 2022 is a howler in itself.
All in all, only a moderately useful exercise. I was hoping to get a nice timeline of military events for my upcoming Substack article on the war, but this is clearly inadequate. Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 9 2023 22:12 utc | 140 Detrick Henry Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 9 2023 22:14 utc | 141 Talk about copypasting stale Empire press releases and cobbling together an ‘article’, all in the name of journalism. I note a couple of commenters trying to call the author out, but I see Ireland has it’s own equivalents of the 77th Brigade and Bellendcat defending the Empire’s narrative. Posted by: jpc | Mar 9 2023 22:18 utc | 142 @LGB!, §125 Posted by: John Marks | Mar 9 2023 22:19 utc | 143 Downplaying Russia’s budget deficit with mentioning USA’s debts would be an odd thing to do. USA could afford this because dollar is a strong currency and this country would weigh 15% in the global economy. Posted by: Trycep | Mar 9 2023 22:21 utc | 144 Posted by: How Sausage is Made | Mar 9 2023 22:08 utc | 140 Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 9 2023 22:22 utc | 145 If RF did launch a volley of Kinzhal there is a reason for that. Could be something as simple as for testing. Or it could be there was very special group of targets. Recall the one used way back a year ago took out an ammo bunker that was below 60 meters of solid bedrock. A normal 500kg warhead does not do that. US has no penetrator that would have a prayer of doing that. We know of the Kinzhal, we do not know much about it. Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 9 2023 22:32 utc | 146 Posted by: Trycep | Mar 9 2023 22:21 utc | 147 Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 9 2023 22:36 utc | 147 Sounds about right, with this out of control Democrat spending on CRT and giving our money to the illegal aliens, not to mention 10% for the Big Guy. Posted by: LGB! | Mar 9 2023 22:37 utc | 148 @LGB! §137: Posted by: John Marks | Mar 9 2023 22:40 utc | 149 Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 9 2023 22:32 utc | 149 Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 9 2023 22:43 utc | 150
Bessarabia??? Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 9 2023 22:46 utc | 151 @ James c | Mar 9 2023 20:38 utc | 94 Posted by: james | Mar 9 2023 22:54 utc | 152 Poland and Slovakia have agreed to hand over Soviet-built MiG-29 fighter aircraft to Ukraine, Slovak Defense Minister Jaro Nad said on Thursday. The day before, Polish President Andrzej Duda declared that his country would donate its entire fleet of MiG-29s. Posted by: Jo | Mar 9 2023 22:57 utc | 153 mental health disorders in UK military grown by 80% in last few years it says on tv…so many PTSD and insufficient care afterwards…wonder how any and how many that survive ukies conscripted citizens afterwards are going to cope as so many have taken or been forced drugs on in service….. Posted by: Jo | Mar 9 2023 23:06 utc | 154 @shadowbanned, §154: Posted by: John Marks | Mar 9 2023 23:14 utc | 155 John Marks – I ain’t taking that bet! Your crystal ball sounds as good as any. It would be nice if the UN could ban alliances such at the NATO and the EU ones, but as long as US and them have the veto power, that prolly aint happening. Posted by: LGB! | Mar 9 2023 23:15 utc | 156 @ oldhippie | Mar 9 2023 22:32 utc | 149 who wrote Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 9 2023 23:16 utc | 157 @LGB! §159: Posted by: John Marks | Mar 9 2023 23:19 utc | 158
Sen. Lindsey Graham to pitch bill sending military after Mexico cartels … and what exactly did Bill Barr (former Attorney General under Trump) actually say?
Mexico has become a failed narco-state That last quote sounds familiar to me … Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Mar 9 2023 23:32 utc | 159 John Marks – Helllllll no, I ain’t betting, lol. Made a lot of bad bets over the years, thanks to mf Q and friends 🙁 Posted by: LGB! | Mar 9 2023 23:36 utc | 160 SattaMassaGana – I can guarantee you that Biden ain’t gonna invade his good buddy Mexico, so we are gonna have to wait until 47 returns. He had mentioned about the cartels before. Posted by: LGB! | Mar 9 2023 23:41 utc | 161 @110 info from last year was that it wouldn’t be restored in 2022. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 9 2023 23:42 utc | 162 Does anyone watch the Ukie site hromadske? They obviously support the AFU but I find their interviews interesting to watch to catch context in various ways, between the lines or things that say when a person knows a bit more of the whole story. Posted by: DakotaRog | Mar 10 2023 0:10 utc | 163 Druzhba remains open because it’s the means of supplying oil to Russian friendly or at least not antagonistic European countries. Posted by: Lex | Mar 10 2023 0:10 utc | 164 psychohistorian @ 160 Posted by: OttoE | Mar 9 2023 20:51 utc Posted by: asehi | Mar 10 2023 0:15 utc | 166 RE: shadowbanned; remarks about Prussia. Posted by: Robbei | Mar 10 2023 0:24 utc | 167 I’ve been wondering if Bakhmut is a bluff and the primary objective is Avdivka. Is the spat about Wagner not being supplied enough munitions just the reality of it’s drop in priority.. By operationally encircling the former, have the Russians forced Zelensky to live up to his ‘festung’ rhetoric and fixate on holding or relieving the city, whilst ignoring the real Russian goal. Is Bakhmut part of the open deception campaign that the Russians are running against the NATO ISR complex? Perhaps the main effort will focus on a north, south axis, whilst Ukraine reinforces a second defensive line that will be orientated in the wrong direction, with her strategic reserve equally out of place. Posted by: Milites | Mar 10 2023 0:25 utc | 168 Ya know why is Russia still struggling to control the area of the US state of Massachusettes right across their border? Posted by: Deplorable Cro magno | Mar 10 2023 0:37 utc | 169 CIA’s attempts of colour revolutions in both of Belarus and Kazakhstan occured before the invasion. What is happening in Georgia had nothing to do with Moscow’s poor perfomance in this war. CIA would’ve eventually done this because expanding ties in South Caucasus was one of CIA’s options to weaken Moscow. Posted by: La Cachette | Mar 10 2023 0:39 utc | 170 SattaMassaGana @162 & 142–
All those were made prior to 1849 as Class Wars blossomed all over Europe, while Marx opined that Capitalism was Revolutionary because it would cause the demise of Feudalism and those structures Bastiat wrote about. But the reformers lost when the Reactionaries launched their counterattack which continues today. And while there’re others who’ve written on the subject, Dr. Hudson has done the deepest and best analysis of its long history. The fundamental difference between the West and the Rest is Profit Versus People, respectively. A Feudal Financial Capitalistic system versus a Democratic Communitarian mixed economic system where most of everything that’s critical for humanity is organized as a public utility, including finance–Zero-sum versus Win-Win. That’s the Big Picture and ultimately what our Third World War is all about.
No, the Old Prussians, who were not a Germanic tribe, were conquered by the Teutonic Order in the 13th century, and by the 17th century their language had completely disappeared and they were assimilated/replaced by Germans. Then the name was taken by the German state that started in that general area and eventually reunified Germany. But it is not a German state, not a continuation of the Baltic Old Prussians, it just had the same name derived from the toponym. Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 10 2023 0:49 utc | 172 psychohistorian @ 160 Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 10 2023 0:49 utc | 173 oldhippie @ 176 Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 10 2023 0:53 utc | 174 psychohistorian | Mar 9 2023 23:16 utc | 160 Posted by: paddy | Mar 10 2023 0:54 utc | 175 There will be three poles in the new Multipolar World and that should lead to world peace as long as everyone just stays in their sphere of influence. Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Mar 10 2023 0:55 utc | 176 SMG – Good point, I had almost forgot about India. I don’t see them ‘joining’ China’s sphere. Maybe they get the bits that China doesn’t want, lol. Posted by: LGB! | Mar 10 2023 0:59 utc | 177 SMG – and yeah, I understand that some latin american countries may not feel great about being in the US sphere of influence, so it would need to be a coordinated effort between the US and the other great powers (you stop supporting Cuba and Venezuela and we pull out of NATO and stop supporting Ukraine/Japan/SK). Could be just crazy enough to work! Posted by: LGB! | Mar 10 2023 1:02 utc | 178 @ Oriental Voice | Mar 9 2023 22:00 utc | 133 Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 9 2023 20:23 utc | 85 Posted by: Ed | Mar 10 2023 1:15 utc | 180 Posted by: unimperator | Mar 9 2023 20:34 utc | 89 “US Patriot systems have trouble shooting down Houthi rockets, which are more or less modified Katyusha’s.” Posted by: Bill Smith | Mar 10 2023 1:21 utc | 181 @ Bill Smith | Mar 10 2023 1:21 utc | 184 Posted by: malenkov | Mar 10 2023 1:26 utc | 182 In previous similar Russian attacks on Ukraine there were claims Ukraine shot down most projectiles. Though fanciful they may have comforted some Ukraine supporters. This time that hype is a whimper. What changed Kyiv? Posted by: Jason | Mar 10 2023 1:27 utc | 183 The real psychohistorian would have posted an argument, not a drive-by raspberry. Posted by: malenkov | Mar 10 2023 1:29 utc | 184 malenkov | Mar 10 2023 1:29 utc | 187 Posted by: Marcus Arealus | Mar 10 2023 1:33 utc | 185 That’s so disgusting of Western officials to slowly start ditching Ukraine, while they were the ones to encourage Kievan regime to provoke Moscow with vague promises that Ukraine would join NATO and EU. Ukrainians deserve better. Posted by: Versai La | Mar 10 2023 1:34 utc | 186 Posted by: malenkov | Mar 10 2023 1:26 utc | 185 Posted by: Bill Smith | Mar 10 2023 1:40 utc | 187 A hopeful sign [from RT “Kiev’s security chief names ‘dangerous tendency’ among Ukrainians “]: Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 10 2023 1:45 utc | 188 Posted by: Daenerys | Mar 10 2023 1:44 utc | 191 Posted by: Technophobe | Mar 10 2023 1:48 utc | 189 SattaMassaGana @179– @ Bill Smith | Mar 10 2023 1:40 utc | 190 Posted by: makenkov | Mar 10 2023 1:55 utc | 191 @ the pessimist | Mar 10 2023 1:45 utc | 192 “PMC Wagner might be sidelined soon. Posted by: Comandante | Mar 10 2023 2:11 utc | 193 Some videos for today. Posted by: Nate | Mar 10 2023 2:17 utc | 194 Downplaying Russia’s budget deficit with mentioning USA’s debts would be an odd thing to do. USA could afford this because dollar is a strong currency and this country would weigh 15% in the global economy. Posted by: LoveDonbass | Mar 10 2023 2:25 utc | 195 Republicofscotland | Mar 9 2023 16:03 utc | 8 Posted by: Spanky | Mar 10 2023 2:29 utc | 196 Has there been any confirmation on what the target of the Kinzhal strike was? The result? Maybe telegram? Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 10 2023 2:38 utc | 197 That is not me at 177 telling oldhippie what he does or doesn’t know….grin Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 10 2023 2:43 utc | 198 @William Gruff | Mar 9 2023 19:13 utc | 61 Posted by: barstool | Mar 10 2023 2:45 utc | 199 Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Mar 9 2023 19:38 utc | 67 Posted by: MervRitchie | Mar 10 2023 2:47 utc | 200 |
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