Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 14, 2023
Ukraine – Media Start To Acknowledge Reality

Finally some truth about the real state of the Ukrainian military is sneaking into main stream media. It is as bad, still not fully disclosed, as we have described it again and again.

As the Washington Post provides:

Ukraine short of skilled troops and munitions as losses, pessimism grow

I'll leave out the propaganda bits and go for the factual beef. The quotes are long but needed to grasp the depth of horrible situation.

The opening paragraph:

The quality of Ukraine’s military force, once considered a substantial advantage over Russia, has been degraded by a year of casualties that have taken many of the most experienced fighters off the battlefield, leading some Ukrainian officials to question Kyiv’s readiness to mount a much-anticipated spring offensive.

That spring offensive is as likely to happen as the announced relief campaign to unblock Bakhmut. The later is bogged down in mud which will only become worse over the next few weeks.

The spring campaign will be made up of green recruits which will use a wild mix of weapons they are not familiar with. Unless there are some 'western' surprises I see no way how it can overwhelm the well prepared Russian defense lines.

Back to the piece:

[Á]n influx of inexperienced draftees, brought in to plug the losses, has changed the profile of the Ukrainian force, which is also suffering from basic shortages of ammunition, including artillery shells and mortar bombs, according to military personnel in the field.

“The most valuable thing in war is combat experience,” said a battalion commander in the 46th Air Assault Brigade, who is being identified only by his call sign, Kupol, in keeping with Ukrainian military protocol. “A soldier who has survived six months of combat and a soldier who came from a firing range are two different soldiers. It’s heaven and earth.”

“And there are only a few soldiers with combat experience,” Kupol added. “Unfortunately, they are all already dead or wounded.”

Such grim assessments have spread a palpable, if mostly unspoken, pessimism from the front lines to the corridors of power in Kyiv, the capital.

Ukrainian losses, estimated to be nearer to 200,000 than to 100,000 dead with even more wounded, are especially felt at the lower command level. One can not just take a salesman or teacher from the street and put them into a junior command role.

Kupol said he was speaking out in hopes of securing better training for Ukrainian forces from Washington and that he hopes Ukrainian troops being held back for a coming counteroffensive will have more success than the inexperienced soldiers now manning the front under his command.

“There’s always belief in a miracle,” he said. “Either it will be a massacre and corpses or it’s going to be a professional counteroffensive. There are two options. There will be a counteroffensive either way.”

It indeed will need a miracle for the counteroffensive to become anything but a massacre.

One senior Ukrainian government official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to be candid, called the number of tanks promised by the West a “symbolic” amount. Others privately voiced pessimism that promised supplies would even reach the battlefield in time.

“If you have more resources, you more actively attack,” the senior official said. “If you have fewer resources, you defend more. We’re going to defend. That’s why if you ask me personally, I don’t believe in a big counteroffensive for us. I’d like to believe in it, but I’m looking at the resources and asking, ‘With what?’ Maybe we’ll have some localized breakthroughs.”

“We don’t have the people or weapons,” the senior official added. “And you know the ratio: When you’re on the offensive, you lose twice or three times as many people. We can’t afford to lose that many people.”

The U.S. is not going to ask if the "Ukraine can afford the losses". It will push for a large attack which will have little chance to even get out of its preparation phase.

Kupol, who consented to having his photograph taken and said he understood he could face personal blowback for giving a frank assessment, described going to battle with newly drafted soldiers who had never thrown a grenade, who readily abandoned their positions under fire and who lacked confidence in handling firearms.

His unit withdrew from Soledar in eastern Ukraine in the winter after being surrounded by Russian forces who later captured the city. Kupol recalled how hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers in units fighting alongside his battalion simply abandoned their positions, even as fighters for Russia’s Wagner mercenary group pressed ahead.

After a year of war, Kupol, a lieutenant colonel, said his battalion is unrecognizable. Of about 500 soldiers, roughly 100 were killed in action and another 400 wounded, leading to complete turnover. Kupol said he was the sole military professional in the battalion, and he described the struggle of leading a unit composed entirely of inexperienced troops.

“I get 100 new soldiers,” Kupol said. “They don’t give me any time to prepare them. They say, ‘Take them into the battle.’ They just drop everything and run. That’s it. Do you understand why? Because the soldier doesn’t shoot. I ask him why, and he says, ‘I’m afraid of the sound of the shot.’ And for some reason, he has never thrown a grenade. … We need NATO instructors in all our training centers, and our instructors need to be sent over there into the trenches. Because they failed in their task.”

He described severe ammunition shortages, including a lack of simple mortar bombs and grenades for U.S.-made MK 19s.

“You’re on the front line,” Kupol said. “They’re coming toward you, and there’s nothing to shoot with.”

Kupol said Kyiv needed to focus on better preparing new troops in a systematic way. “It’s like all we do is give interviews and tell people that we’ve already won, just a little bit further away, two weeks, and we’ll win,” he said.

Yes, Kiev, helped by 'western' media, is speaking of a victory that is unlikely to ever come. The view from the field is way different:

Dmytro, a Ukrainian soldier whom The Post is identifying only by first name for security reasons, described many of the same conditions. Some of the less-experienced troops serving at his position with the 36th Marine Brigade in the Donetsk region “are afraid to leave the trenches,” he said. Shelling is so intense at times, he said, that one soldier will have a panic attack, then “others catch it.”

The first time he saw fellow soldiers very shaken, Dmytro said, he tried to talk them through the reality of the risks. The next time, he said, they “just ran from the position.”

“I don’t blame them,” he said. “They were so confused.”

Yes, shell shock is real. Being under artillery fire is terrifying. Especially when you are a newbie, sit in a ditch without armor and with no way to respond to it.

Russian artillery supremacy is why Ukrainian losses are a multiple of those on the Russian side. But even if foot soldiers are available and well trained there is nothing that can make up for the loss of an army's backbone:

Ukraine has lost many of its junior officers who received U.S. training over the past nine years, eroding a corps of leaders who helped distinguish the Ukrainians from their Russian enemies at the start of the invasion, the Ukrainian official said. Now, the official said, those forces must be replaced. “A lot of them are killed,” the official said.

Replaced with what? It takes years to train a master sergeant or captain. These positions require experience in the field. No civilian training can replace that. Three week courses, run by 'western' officers with no real war experience, will not be able to make up for this:

Even with new equipment and training, U.S. military officials consider Ukraine’s force insufficient to attack all along the giant front, where Russia has erected substantive defenses, so troops are being trained to probe for weak points that allow them to break through with tanks and armored vehicles.

There will be no weak points. Or maybe there will be some, intentionally left open by the Russians, to draw the Ukrainian 'counterattack' in to then entrap it in one big cauldron.

It is over for the Ukraine. The Russian forces are enveloping Ukrainian units in several small cauldrons. Bakhmut is only one of them. South of it is the New York agglomeration which will become another one. Anviivka, further south, is also in big trouble and may even become the first of the three to fall.


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Even the New York Times has started to notice it:

From Kupiansk in the north to Avdiivka in the south, through Bakhmut, Lyman and dozens of towns in between, Russian forces are attacking along a 160-mile arc in eastern Ukraine in an intensifying struggle for tactical advantage before possible spring offensives. Heavy fighting was reported on Monday in and around Avdiivka, a town that has been on the front lines for much of the past year and in recent days has once again become a focal point of combat.

In Bakhmut, where the Wagner private military company has seized control of the eastern side of the city, brutal combat is taking place in the streets, the blasted remains of buildings and deep underground in the warrens of mines, according to Russian military bloggers.

In Kupiansk and surrounding villages, Russia has stepped up shelling and probing ground assaults, and Ukraine has ordered civilians to leave. Russian shelling intensified in Lyman and other towns, as well. According to the Ukrainian military, Russian forces make more than 100 attempts each day to break through their lines.

With few people or intact buildings, the most hotly contested places have little left to offer beyond control of roads and railways that the Kremlin sees as important to its goal of seizing the entire eastern region known as the Donbas. The assaults may also yield better positioning for the next attack, intelligence about the other side’s positions and propaganda value.

Not mention by the NYT, but most important is that the Russian forces in all these attacks are destroying the Ukrainian army.

In a few weeks, after those three cauldrons have collapsed, the Ukrainian army will be on the run. It will be summer by then and the mud will have dried up. The Russian forces will then become more mobile which may even allow for wider 'big arrow' moves.

The only way for the Ukrainian army to counter those moves will be the use of the forces it currently prepares for a 'counteroffensive' as defense formations.

But even that will only give it another three month or so before the inevitable collapse arrives.

Comments

I wonder – just an armchair speculation – it could be some EW application.
RuMoD is strangely specific about “no contact happenned”, so tricks like ramming the propeller are probably out of the toolbox here.
However, imagine the drone was forced into some virage that could only be managed if piloted by a human controller. Collision avoidance, put into jet slipstream, anything. USAF pilot starts a sharpturning he is trained to do, and suddenly Russian jammers kick in, removing human control and maybe also faking GPS and altitude signals. Unguided Reaper in the middle of the vriager fails, but Russia made no any focused impact and can enjoy deniability, it was *just a malfunction*, you know.
Just speculating for a fun of it.

Posted by: Arioch | Mar 14 2023 19:44 utc | 201

We have numerous posters continuing to post the exact same information, verbatim. I wish some would read previous comments first.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 19:44 utc | 202

For those interested in counter-factuals, I’ve often imagined what might have been the implications if the Germans had adopted an earlier defensive strategy—for example, not trying to pinch the salient at Kursk, but strategically withdrawing to a defensive line, fortifying and using new tech (Tigers, etc) in that role. Or, redeploying the resources used for Wacht am Rhein to slow down the allied advance, etc.
Instead they threw vital manpower and materiel away on desperate futile offensives. Like Ukraine has been doing. Is it a Nazi thing perhaps…?

Posted by: Patroklos | Mar 14 2023 19:45 utc | 203

@ Norwegian 193
Holy Mackerel. That was expected.
A few minutes ago the Russian Ambassador to the US was summoned to the State Department for a bag of Nuland cookies which was promptly dumped in Blinkens trash bin.
“We warned supplying materiel makes you a direct combatant.”
The Kremlin issue a statement: It’s your fault, not ours.
Russian MoD on US Drone Incident: UAV Fell Into Black Sea Due to Own Sharp Maneuvering
https://sputniknews.com/20230314/russian-mod-on-us-drone-incident-uav-was-flying-with-transponders-turned-off-towards-russian-border-1108397416.html

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – US drone MQ-9 fell into the Black Sea on Tuesday morning due to its own sharp maneuvering, Russian fighters did not come into contact with it and did not use weapons, the Russian Defense Ministry said.
“As a result of sharp maneuvering around 09:30 Moscow time [06:30 GMT], unmanned aerial vehicle MQ-9 went into an uncontrolled flight with a loss of altitude and collided with the water surface. The Russian fighters did not use airborne weapons, did not come into contact with the unmanned aerial vehicle and returned safely to their home airfield,” the ministry said.
The ministry clarified that on the morning of March 14, the airspace control of the Russian Aerospace Forces had recorded the flight of US unmanned aerial vehicle MQ-9 over the Black Sea in the region of the Crimean peninsula in the direction of the Russian state border.[.]
The flight of the drone “was carried out with transponders turned off, violating the boundaries of the area of the temporary regime for the use of airspace, established for the purpose of conducting a special military operation, communicated to all users of international airspace and published in accordance with international standards,” the defense ministry noted.
Russian fighters from the air defense forces on duty were scrambled in order to identify the intruder, the ministry added.

Meanwhile, Pentagon spokesperson Pat Ryder on Tuesday declined to disclose whether the US MQ-9 Reaper drone that crashed over the Black Sea after the intercept with Russian aircraft was armed.
“I’m not going to get into the specific profile of this particular aircraft. As you know the MQ-9 does have the ability to be armed,” Ryder said during a press briefing.

Ryder also added, that US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has not talked to Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu after the incident.

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 14 2023 19:46 utc | 204

Given the insanity of US neocons, and the threats emanating from US politicians and the Ukrainian coke head,, the Russians have to be open to the possibility that drones approaching Crimea have a nuclear payload.
Drone flights can be harmless until suddenly they are not.

Posted by: CitizenSmith | Mar 14 2023 19:50 utc | 205

My speculation about the drone downing from what I have read is that the Russian jets dropped fuel or whatever on the drone causing the propeller to fail or some of the sensors to fail so that it could not navigate.
I am happy to read that the Russians have recovered the wreckage.
The shit show continues until it doesn’t and what a circus we have on display.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 14 2023 19:53 utc | 206

Looks like the flights regularly violate that navigation block around Crimea but tend to stay more than 100km off the coast. 60km is very close I would say.
https://i0.wp.com/www.itamilradar.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/ItaMilRadar-18.jpg?fit=1515%2C855&ssl=1

Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 14 2023 19:54 utc | 207

Not a Reaper, but Global Hawk?
https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/48481
It appears that a US surveillance RQ4 Global Hawk drone, callsign “FORTE10” went missing at 8:40:58 CET (Central European Time). The drone flew within 18 nautical miles of the Russian coastline. It was cruising at an altitude of 52k feet.
There are many reasons to suspect that the drone from todays incident was not a Reaper given their rare usage in that area. Hawks have been spotted much more frequently. This is a much larger embarrassment for USA if this is the case.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 19:54 utc | 208

We recently had the wisely restrained and insightful remarks about the Chinese peace initiative, manoeuvring for a Saudi-Iranian “rapprochement”.
Its real magnitude remains to be evaluated (especially in terms of practical effects on the Yemeni front), but commentators, from TheCradle to MoA, did not hide that…
Now we are back to the most typical manipulation, astutely picking excerpts from WP and NYT, without even mentioning the obvious fact that those “laments” are mere renewals of the usual “calls to arms”.
The backdrop is still that of a Russian Army disheartened and suffering disproportionately high casualties.
“Victory is close, but still at risk, so we must redouble our (their) efforts…”
It is surprisingly disingenuous to spin those formulae as genuine analysis, reflecting some kind of emerging doubt or new appraisal…
Instead we read again of “grinding” through artillery superiority (the worst nonsense being repeated without criticism for over a year), “Big Arrows” slowed by mud (when mud disappears, they become unnecessary because of artillery superiority), mythical cauldrons, imminent tectonic shifts etc. etc.
In practice, the very same garbage from “The Saker” & co.
Disappointing.

Posted by: MoaMetal | Mar 14 2023 19:55 utc | 209

Pro-Russian Ukrainians shoots down US Drone, 2 dead Polish farmers reported as dead.
(In reference to: pro-Ukrainian nordstream attack, Chinese weather balloon, S-300 attack on Poland)

Posted by: Forged News Humour | Mar 14 2023 19:56 utc | 210

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 19:38 utc | 199
If it was 60km SW of Sevastopol, chances are it was still relatively shallow (less than 100m) water. Black Sea deepens very quickly around that area.

Posted by: unimperator | Mar 14 2023 19:57 utc | 211

Possibly the fuel dumped by the Russian planes entered the drones air intake, causing an over speed of the turbo prop engine and propellor disintegration due to excessive centrifugal forces.
Crafty. No contact, propellor destroyed.

Posted by: CitizenSmith | Mar 14 2023 19:58 utc | 212

Reaper is a turboprop, Global Hawk a jet. US statements say MQ-9 Reaper.
Hawk flights before the war:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10538787/U-S-Air-Force-spy-plane-takes-spotlight-Ukraine-airspace.html

Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 14 2023 20:05 utc | 213

Posted by: Paco | Mar 14 2023 16:55 utc | 112
Nice recommendations, thank you.
Yes, Prigozhin, marvellous, every success to him!
Can you imagine a western PMC like Wagner, run by anyone even remotely like Prigozhin? Not a chance.
The west is choking on sinister creeps.

Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 14 2023 20:05 utc | 214

Pro-Russian Ukrainians shoots down US Drone, 2 Polish farmers reported as dead.
(Fixed url)
(In reference to: pro-Ukrainian nordstream attack, Chinese weather balloon, S-300 attack on Poland)

Posted by: Forged News Humour | Mar 14 2023 20:06 utc | 215

Betcha there are only 5 AWACS E-3s (aka Boeings 707) availiable to USAF in Southern Europe. (2 flying and 3 at base)
Think it’s crossed Moscow’s mind how trivial it would be to render NATO blind in the entire region ?

Posted by: Exile | Mar 14 2023 20:09 utc | 216

@Oblomovka daydream | Mar 14 2023 12:32 utc | 24
General Winter, General Mud, General Rasputitsa… Ah, what strange generals who fight on both sides…

Posted by: SCan | Mar 14 2023 20:09 utc | 217

“US Senator calls on Russia’s Putin to stop ‘reckless’ behaviour”
LOL. They really do not think about what they are saying.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Mar 14 2023 20:14 utc | 218

Posted by: SCan | Mar 14 2023 20:09 utc | 218
Do not forget mac master general fivestars cakeman trolls 😀

Posted by: Macpott | Mar 14 2023 20:14 utc | 219

Posted by: Exile | Mar 14 2023 20:09 utc | 217
US would also need a lot of AWACS in Philippines and China Sea area, but their aircraft carriers have “organic” AWACS planes I think. But are they as good/useful as the E3? They need to send a bunch from Europe to Asia.

Posted by: unimperator | Mar 14 2023 20:15 utc | 220

@A.z, #5:
I agreed with most of what you said in #5, but would like to point out one misconception among western intellectuals regarding the so-called ‘princelings’ of China’s older generation revolutionaries. This misconception was propagated by western MSM (for decades; ever since the cold war), but really does not stand up against historical facts. There have been many instances of some leaders seeking to enrich their offsprings monetarily, or in corporate hierarchies, but the leadership ladder of the CPC has been miraculously faithful to the merit based regime. Since Mao’s era, none of the subsequent prominent Chinese leaders have been sons or daughters of early top leaders. Mao’s own daughters retired as ordinary high school teachers, same as many, many other offspring of prominent CPC leaders. Li Peng, who succeeded Zhao Ziyang as premier after 1989 Tienanmen Affair, was son of a leader long dead before CPC took control over China. His father happened to be a close friend of Zhou Enlai, so Zhou actually adopted him as a god-son. But he climbed the leadership ledder solely on his own. Besides Li, there has been no other sons/daughters of CPC leaders having risen to membership of the Central Standing Committee, which is the hallmark of national leadership. Yes, there have been influence buying/trading to some extend to monetary profits or status privileges, but actually no worse than anywhere else in this world that you can think of.
You mentioned Xi Jinping. His father, a Standing Committee members in the 50’s, retired during Cultural revolution. Afterwards he was appointed during Deng Xiaoping’s leadership as Mayor of Shenzhen to experiment with the idea of ‘opening up’ and reform. He laid the foundations of Shenzhen’s developments and its subsequent city leaderships. It was a miraculously successful undertaking. Yet, his son has not trumpeted his father’s accomplishments, nor deitize his father’s legacy. Few people in the West actually know of these facts.
I think China has been successful over the past 70+ years largely because of the caliber of its leadership. I hope this legacy perpetuates for another 70+ years or more.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Mar 14 2023 20:16 utc | 221

I’m not seeing the physical scenario in which an Su-27 could somehow strike the propeller of one of these drones without serious damage to both crafts. The Russians have said nothing about a propeller – other than RT and Telegram channels quoting the Pentagram’s statements.
Can anyone explain how it would be physically possible to hit the prop without also crashing the Sukhoi? I smell a rat.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 20:21 utc | 222

Any fracture in the Western Main Stream Media (WMSM) is to be welcomed.
A fracture in the US/NATO political leadership would also be welcome.
Calling Germany – Germany calling – anyone at home? Must be still in the bunker – no signal!
10 min chat with Jeffrey Sachs on NATO and the 80 US bases throughout the world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6De_nPqZxXI

Posted by: Don Firineach | Mar 14 2023 20:21 utc | 223

The Global Hawk theory is starting to make a lot more sense…
https://www.radarbox.com/data/flights/FORTE10/1933595369
Updated “a few seconds ago.”

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 20:24 utc | 224

@Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 20:21 utc | 223

I’m not seeing the physical scenario in which an Su-27 could somehow strike the propeller of one of these drones without serious damage to both crafts. The Russians have said nothing about a propeller – other than RT and Telegram channels quoting the Pentagram’s statements.

Maybe the Pentagram talked about a propeller to disguise the fact the drone didn’t have a propeller?

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 20:25 utc | 225

Sorry, I misread the map in the above link. That looked like Crimea to me initially. Disregard.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 20:25 utc | 226

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 20:25 utc | 226
That’s my current theory despite the mistake w/ the supposed Forte10 flight data. Maybe I’ll check on Forte11 and Forte12…

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 20:28 utc | 227

Andrey Medvedev, Russian journalist and Deputy Speaker of the Moscow City Duma, suspects that these reports are not an acknowledgement of Ukrainian weakness, but a Western psyop to lull Russian forces into a false sense of security:

Reports are coming in alleging that Kiev has doubts about its readiness for the offensive due to a decrease in the quality of troops. This is written by The Washington Post.
So, the article states that the unpreparedness for an offensive is due to the losses among experienced soldiers and officers and a shortage of weapons.
That is, judging by the intensification of information operations of this kind, namely, by the increase in the number of publications in the Western media about the alleged unpreparedness of Kiev for an offensive, in reality, preparations for it are in full swing.
Firstly, everything is alright with Kiev’s equipment. And the lack of aviation will be compensated by UAV and HIMARS strikes.
Secondly, the losses of AFU personnel really are large, however, in fact, the training of new formations to NATO standards and command and control systems continues non-stop.
And therefore, perhaps right now Kiev really does not have enough professional personnel. Because it’s running all over the training grounds.
And the article in The Washington Post was written solely so that our “analysts” and “experts” (and politicians, of course) who have been accustomed since their youth to believe that only the truth is being told on the BBC, CNN or Voice of America, cease to perceive the threat of an AFU offensive seriously.
“But how can they go on the offensive if they are not ready, even The Washington Post is writing about it.” I am sure that we will hear such clever reasoning somewhere in the coming days.
But the reality is completely different. The AFU will be driven on the offensive even if they are fully non-combat-ready, and they will have to fight with flintlock guns and powder cannons of the Koliivshchyna period. Because that’s the political expediency.
The offensive should become the justification for the defense of Bakhmut and crazy losses, the basis for receiving a new package of financial assistance, and according to the plan of U.S. analysts, the offensive (even if the AFU will be killed by the Russian army and the “orchestra”) should weaken Moscow’s position on the external track. In addition, the offensive is not only Ukrainian losses, it is also our losses, and possibly (as conceived by the Western authors of the plan) the loss of territory. All this will then be used to destabilize internal processes in Russia.
This is not a reason to panic, if anything. This is simply an analysis of the possible actions of the enemy, for which we should be prepared. It’s not a given that everything will go smoothly for the enemy, they are also human, they also get tired and make mistakes. But we must understand the logic of the enemy’s actions. And we have no right to relax.
So I agree with my esteemed colleague: we have a maximum of two months before the enemy attacks. And we, that is, civil society, should use these two months wisely in order to provide our military with everything necessary in time. From drones and anti-drones to tourniquets and [camouflage — S] nets.
Why is this a matter of civil society? Well, it so happened that victory is our common affair. Yes, thank you, I am aware that everyone everywhere has everything they need. But if you look closely, it turns out that this everything is not everywhere. And not everyone has it. And something is scarce, after all. And something is not available at all.
The most important thing for us is not to read U.S. newspapers in the morning [a play on the well-known phrase from Mikhail Bulgakov’s Heart of a Dog — S], and if reading them, not to think that the enemy is lacking something. Even if that’s true, that’s their problem.
And we should focus on ourselves and work for our victory.

Posted by: S | Mar 14 2023 20:28 utc | 228

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 20:25 utc | 226
maan if it was really downed with the piss trick… well someone has to build himself a hall of shame :3 this trick is so old…

Posted by: Macpott | Mar 14 2023 20:29 utc | 229

> Can anyone explain how it would be physically possible to hit the prop without also crashing the Sukhoi? I smell a rat.
> Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 20:21 utc | 223
I repeat: i do not think it happenned. My gut says Russia now enjoys playing cat and mouse a la “scandinavian truth’, so if the claim “no contact” was maid, then that’s it.
However of course it can happen. The idea is always an exchange of something auxillary for something critical.
Like maybe sacrificing thew tip of the radar dome to vend one blade.
The dome is made of some cheap material like plywood (at least ones of MiG-21 were made of something like that) and can be replaced at home with no hassle. The bent propeller though would get out of balance and probably destroys itself in few minutes.
Or one can sacrifuce a wing tip. Would this be a sea jet – maybe a finisher hook, something that can is not fatal, unliek the sole propeller.

Posted by: Arioch | Mar 14 2023 20:29 utc | 230

From Russia Today:
The ongoing conflict with Ukraine – and the West – is a fight for Russia’s very existence, rather than a mere geopolitical game, President Vladimir Putin has said.
Note this statement is one of the conditions required by Russian law to use nuclear arms: The Russian Federation retains the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use of nuclear weapons … and also in the case of aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons, when the very existence of the state is put under threat”

Posted by: Passerby | Mar 14 2023 20:30 utc | 231

Can you imagine a western PMC like Wagner, run by anyone even remotely like Prigozhin? Not a chance.
The west is choking on sinister creeps.
Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 14 2023 20:05 utc | 215

PMCs are PMCs. All around the world. It does not matter whether they are called Wagner, Academi or Aegis. Wagner makes no moral exception here just because they happen to be on the right side of history.
It must be undisputed that in a civilized society PMCs and/or similarly designed services have neither a place nor any right to exist.

Posted by: Nobody | Mar 14 2023 20:34 utc | 232

Map, claiming it was MQ-9 Reaper. Based in Romania it looks like.
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/56104
‼️🇷🇺💪🇺🇸🏴‍☠️ The wreckage of the American MQ-9 Reaper UAV that fell into the Black Sea was picked up from the sea by the Russian military.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 20:34 utc | 233

a la “scandinavian truth’
Posted by: Arioch | Mar 14 2023 20:29 utc | 231
sorry, my bad. the meme name was “Icelandic honesty”
not sure if there is any historic substantiation or just a catchy phrase

Posted by: Arioch | Mar 14 2023 20:36 utc | 234

@Arioch | Mar 14 2023 20:36 utc | 235
Re “scandinavian truth”. Truth is not regional.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 20:38 utc | 235

This comment thread is about Western media’s latest reports on the alleged depletion of experienced fighters in Ukraine’s military force.
The Su-27/MQ-9 incident should be discussed in the latest Ukraine Open Thread.

Posted by: S | Mar 14 2023 20:38 utc | 236

Posted by: Arioch | Mar 14 2023 20:29 utc | 231
Maybe, but I seriously doubt the Russians would sacrifice any part of their plane and endanger the pilot. I mean we’re talking actual physical contact at a relatively high speed in mid-air. That’s a scenario with all kinds of risks. Occam’s Razor tells me the truth is much simpler.
a) IF it was a Reaper drone w/ turboprop, either they used the fuel release trick to cause the drone’s intake to suck it in and ruin the motor or the drone/pilot panicked and tried to make too quick a maneuver leading to its loss.
or
b) IF it was a Hawk drone w/ jet engine, all bets are off. But as Norwegian said above, and I questioned earlier, why is the Pentagram so insistent on giving that kind and level of detail in its official statements? Seems awfully precise and unnecessary to me. A simple “contact was made and we lost the drone as a result” would have sufficed. Furthermore, what degree of telemetric detail can they really get from the aircraft that’s being remotely piloted? Is there a camera aimed at the propeller that they saw get hit in real-time? In that sense, the information provided is actually vague to the point of suspicion. How do they know that the propeller was hit, and if they know that, then why not describe exactly what happened given that they’re already going into unnecessary detail? Isn’t it far more likely that their telemetry provides a binary state reading for the status of the propeller shaft? IOW, something caused the propeller to stop working, but all they know is the “FAILURE” reading.
Maybe someone can help me out here, because I’ve convinced myself that the whole propeller scenario is bullshit and the USG is cleverly obfuscating the fact that they actually lost a much more sensitive and expensive aircraft (the Hawk).

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 20:41 utc | 237

Wont America need those drones for its imminent war with Mexico?
America: Top Gun Maverick of the world.

Posted by: Rjb1.5 | Mar 14 2023 20:42 utc | 238

Reading here a lot of drone accident info, but I’ve yet to see anyone address the seriousness this could have devolved into. What if the RAF craft was damaged, and the pilot having to eject, or worse, having an RAF pilot become injured or die? Shoigu while he may understand that accidents happen, would be forced to respond, I imagine the no-fly zone would be expanded well into “international waters” and anything approaching without an active transponder would be dealt with. This nato stunt could have killed us all. What happened to those so-called “cooler minds” in the pentagon? I don’t think they exist, we’re dealing with general men can wear dresses milley and his ilk. If anyone was still believing there’s someone rational with the US’s citizens best interest in mind, it should be clear that guy retired and we’re stuck with Milley.

Posted by: NJH | Mar 14 2023 20:44 utc | 239

Is there a blessing for a drone?
Yes. May all US drones crash in the Black Sea!

Posted by: Rjb1.5 | Mar 14 2023 20:45 utc | 240

Russian pilots today shat on (dumped fuel on) a US Reaper spy drone in the Black Sea.
Following the “dump” the pilots flipped the spy drones wings forcing it to dysfunction and collide with the land in Crimea.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Mar 14 2023 20:46 utc | 241

As we have been scolded to do, I took my commenting on the drone thing to the other Ukraine O/T.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 20:48 utc | 242

Posted by: Passerby | Mar 14 2023 20:30 utc | 232
That statement was made during his visit to a helicopter plant in Buriatya, the far east. Another statement concerning the origin of the present mess was the fall of the USSR, which if taken out of context will only feed the frenzy about his desire to reconstitute the fallen power.
Here is the link in Russian of that visit, the English translation will appear shortly I think.
http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/70674

Posted by: Paco | Mar 14 2023 20:50 utc | 243

Arioch #202

However, imagine the drone was forced into some virage that could only be managed if piloted by a human controller. Collision avoidance, put into jet slipstream, anything. USAF pilot starts a sharpturning he is trained to do, and suddenly Russian jammers kick in, removing human control and maybe also faking GPS and altitude signals. Unguided Reaper in the middle of the vriager fails, but Russia made no any focused impact and can enjoy deniability, it was *just a malfunction*, you know.
Just speculating for a fun of it.

Ooops just spottes S redirection to the open thread as these discussion are not kosher here. I will repost this at Ukraine open thread.
Your speculating is appreciated.
I speculate that the Russian plane “dumping fuel” proposition is BS. The Russian plane got into accurate position aligned with drone propellers and dumped a “bag of marbles” perhaps steel marbles.
At that collision rate only one or two impacts on one propeller blade would be enough to destroy the engine or shut it down (assuming it had such mechanism).
The Russian plane is entirely safe with a classy exit maneuver. All that remains to do is follow the dropping plane to spot its gps point on impact.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 14 2023 20:53 utc | 244

@170 At least one on kiev energy plants

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 14 2023 20:56 utc | 245

Arioch #231
Radomes obviously require specific dielectric materials (usually resins or foams, but I am not an expert).
Wood is not a completely unreasonable candidate, but it seems a very unlikely choice for a Mach 2+ aircraft, especially considering that on the MiG-21 the radome also works as a moveable “shock cone”, controlling the air intake.
Your general reasoning could still be valid, anyway…

Posted by: MoaMetal | Mar 14 2023 20:56 utc | 246

ThusspakeZarathustra @219–
Putin was behaving quite well today in Buryatia visiting the Ulan-Ude Aviation Plant where he conversed with workers after touring the plant and then held a video conference about the development of far-eastern cities, both of which are very informative/educational. The conversation with the workers at the plant is very illuminating. There are a few passages I’ll excerpt. The first is this question and a short portion of Putin’s long history laden answer:

M. Shatov: We are confident that all the decisions that have been made in the capital have been weighed and calculated. So tell us, how can we, ordinary citizens, employees of the aviation plant, help our country win and bring peace to every home?
Putin: In this regard, answering your question directly now, I would say that for to bring peace closer, to bring stability closer, Of course, we need to show the consolidation of our society, there must be concentration. And only in this case, I’ll say it again when the enemy sees that our society is strong, internally collected, consolidated, then and in this case, without any doubt, what we strive for and what you are talking about will happen. They said, both success and victory, and in each of the areas that we have today. Do. That’s the first thing.
As for your team, we have already started with this. After all, you have a special enterprise that has been working for the civil sphere and the defence industry since 1939. So your role is to win. it was provided, it is special and very high.

The next Q&A has already been noted by Russian media and published, but I’ll provide the gist anyway:

Yu.Plastinina: I would like to know how you assess the economic situation in Russia for the current year.
Vladimir Putin: This is a very important issue, because everything depends on it, including the country’s defense capability.
Of course, Russia has passed a very important stage of its development this year. This may be the most important result of 2022. What is it? We have significantly increased our economic sovereignty. After all, what did our opponent expect? That we will collapse in two or three weeks or in a month-that was the calculation. The expectation was that businesses would shut down due to the refusal of our partners to work in the economic sphere with us, the financial system would collapse, tens of thousands of people would be out of work, take to the streets, protest, and Russia would be rocked from within and collapse. That’s what the calculation was for. This didn’t happen….
What is also interesting, and I discussed it with my colleagues yesterday or the day before, is that it is understandable, but nevertheless: when Western companies left us, they thought that everything would collapse at once, and nothing like this happened. Participants in economic activity in Russia have grown up, become stronger, they have their own level of culture, their own well-established connections around the world, they easily and simply replaced those who were leaving, and where they found it appropriate, they started buying up these enterprises at a low cost – and we helped them. But there are still working collectives, well-prepared, well-established cooperation chains that still work one way or another, in general, entire clusters have been created. They easily took the first one, and the second one – they immediately filled the vacant market with their own goods. And production in the small and medium-sized business segment is growing.
Yes, we must admit that our detractors expect that in the medium term they will create problems for us. This danger really exists, and we understand it. Why? Long-cycle enterprises require, of course, state-of-the-art equipment and state-of-the-art developments.
But I think that everything will be fine here, too, because we are now introducing new tools to support innovative industries. This includes industrial mortgages, tax incentives, and the creation of certain industrial clusters. We need to preserve internal competition, so that we don’t get caught up in our own juice, and so that the consumer feels that competition – which is very important for progress – remains.
All this gives us every reason to say that, despite certain costs, I think that last year was only beneficial, given that we have become much more sovereign and independent in the field of economy and finance. [My Emphasis]

Yes, I excised a lot of content, but I linked to the transcripts so anyone with greater curiosity can discover what I omitted. I think many will find what Putin thinks is required for Russia to demonstrate to the West odd, that public resolve outranks military power in this geopolitical fight as Putin called it–the West trying to improve its position while for Russia the fight’s existential.
So, yes, Putin’s behaving as a head-of-state during wartime ought to behave, and for Russia that’s good while for NATO, yes, it’s bad.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 14 2023 21:01 utc | 247

Posted by: Paco | Mar 14 2023 20:50 utc | 244
Thanks. “Virtulyet” – this feels like a very artificial word.

Posted by: Passerby | Mar 14 2023 21:07 utc | 248

I suspect whoever suggested that the drone was downed by a combination of evasive maneuvers and jet wash from the Russian jets is probably correct. I suspect the fuel dump idea might have been true but wasn’t what brought the drone down. I don’t think a Russian jet would physically contact the drone because that would be dangerous to the jet. Those drones aren’t small and a pilot doesn’t want a multi-ton drone going out of control in front or alongside him.
What will the US do? What can it do? Nothing.
Also some moron referred to the Russian Black Sea fleet as “sitting ducks”. Apparently he’s not aware of the Bastion anti-ship missile defense system Russia has all along the coast of the Black Sea. Not to mention the missile capabilities of the Black Sea fleet including even very small corvettes.
K-300P Bastion-P
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-300P_Bastion-P

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 14 2023 21:12 utc | 249

Re reaper…is this a policy enhancenent to the recent Rus planes turning away USA plane on a kind of “practise bombing run” towards St Petersburg the other day…ie any planes heading directly towards Rus territory will be so treated as intentional attack… will USA try it again to prove this right or wrong one wonders….

Posted by: Jo | Mar 14 2023 21:14 utc | 250

@karlof1 | Mar 14 2023 18:17 utc | 155
Fuel dump capabilities are required for all aircraft where the total gross airframe mass including fuel can exceed the maximum landing Weight (MLW) in any configuration for which that aircraft is certified.

Posted by: Hermit | Mar 14 2023 21:19 utc | 251

Hermit @252–
Thanks for that info; I’ve learned something new today.
I’ll be posting the translation of Lavrov’s speech to the International Russophile Movement made today in Moscow to the Week in Review thread.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 14 2023 21:26 utc | 252

Maybe Russia might have viewed it as a pertentul weponized drone threat, heading for the Crimean bridge ?
Any way its just road kill now.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 14 2023 21:30 utc | 253

Simplicius has a comprehensive Substack post up about the downing of the drone…
BREAKING: Russian Su-27’s Finally Down American Drone Near Crimea
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/breaking-russian-su-27s-finally-down

Sounds like Iran is about to get itself a brand new MQ-9 Reaper to reverse engineer. Maybe China too?

Then this:

Enironmentally unsound? Quick, someone call Greta!

And maybe I’m wrong about the physical contact thing…

—that Russian pilot Pyotr Nesterov in fact pioneered the ‘aerial ramming’ technique?
“The first aerial ramming was performed by Pyotr Nesterov in 1914 during the First World War. In the early stages of World War II the tactic was employed by Soviet pilots, who called it taran, the Russian word for “battering ram”.

He also covers the ship ramming going on in the Black Sea and Vasya Tsymbal as referenced by others here.
He points this out:

In the end, this is an important escalatory ‘red line’ step by Russian command. They are demonstrating the limits of their patience to the US. However, the MQ-9 which was downed is not the primary threat by a long shot—the far more powerful RQ-4 Global Hawk which also does the rounds in that area has much more powerful instruments/sensors for scanning and providing target data on Crimea and the outlying region.

He even has a map of where it went down.
Then he goes on to discuss Russian glide bombs, concluding:

The reason is, Russia has thousands/tens of thousands of these ancient Soviet Fab-500 bombs, so if it can create a JDAM-like system to rig them with wings and guidance, it could have a gigantic preset inventory of guided munitions to lob at will with very minimal costs as these bombs are at this point worth next to nothing.

He further discusses the reported use of Kinzhals
All in all, another must-read.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 14 2023 21:33 utc | 254

I suppose this is related to the matter of Ukrainian reserves and their losses; a short snippet from Military Chronicle (via Firefox Translate add-on): https://voenhronika.ru/publ/vojna_na_ukraine/15_03_2023_srochnye_novosti_s_ukrainy_zhestokie_okopnye_zaruby_nad_chernym_morem_sbit_bespilotnik_ssha_karta_boevykh_dejstvij_17_video/60-1-0-13746

Zaluzhny proposed to postpone the Azov operation for the summer. Ukraine has now received 30% of the promised Western equipment, and the reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are very exhausted at Bakhmut, time is needed to recruit and train new soldiers.

Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 14 2023 21:35 utc | 255

Another speculative viewpoint.
Was there any fuel dump or touching at all?. From the track on Flightradar24, the drone was on a straight line trajectory until opposite Crimea, it then turned and headed straight for Sevastopol. Finally hitting the water about 60 km away.
Second revelation by the Pentagon is that the Russians were next to the drone for about 30-40 minutes.
**
The Russians claim that nothing was touched and do not mention fuel spraying.
Did the Russians try to take over the drone by hacking as the Iranians did sometime back?. … and the only alternative the US could find was to “suicide” the drone into the sea to give them time to trash the software. (They did that anyway but may have needed more time)
***
OT. Side note; I expect that Israel will try to screw up the deal between Saudi and Iran. They could even be tempted to really attack Iran. This would also take some of the heat off Netanyahu for his Judicial manipulations to make him “Dictator Netty the 1th”. He lacks the charismatic charm of dressing in dirty green T shirts, but then he might be inclined to find some other visual vestimentary mark.

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 14 2023 21:41 utc | 256

Would be interesting to see how often these collisions will happen world wide now.

Posted by: Wokechoke | Mar 14 2023 21:46 utc | 257

Ukraine Debacle is a Big win for China.
Taiwan is watching. With a national election looming next January and a big loss for rabid nationalists in the last election in ’22, the accomodationist KMT is on course to sweep next year. The result will be the status quo ante. With the further outcome of showing the US the door. Of course a coup s always possible, but as Ukraine get trashed the Taiwanese ask “Do we want our island turned into downtown Bakhmut”. Polls show the answer is “no”; confidence in the US is likewise collapsing.

Posted by: Posa | Mar 14 2023 21:46 utc | 258

fyi
CBC: F16s Will ‘Eventually’ Be Sent To Ukraine Former US Joint Chiefs of Staff Chair Says
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mike-mullen-f16-shipment-expected-1.6776514
“A former top soldier in the US said he expects that Western countries will eventually furnish Ukraine with fighter jets, fulfilling one of the embattled country’s most urgent requests.
There are some concerns that resolve in Western countries may be weakening…”

Posted by: John Gilberts | Mar 14 2023 21:48 utc | 259

Of course I’ve read USMC General Smedley Buttler “War is a racket” but one poster here put it best IMHO ” It’s not who wins, it’s who profits”
Beautiful summation of the western ruling classes.

Posted by: Bob | Mar 14 2023 21:54 utc | 260

No one cares about F-16s. It would take a year to train an effective Ukrainian pilot and the war is likely over by then. If piloting by NATO pilots, which is more likely, that would be a likely “red line” violation for the Russians. Not that it would matter, since Russian AD and Russian jets will simply shoot them down like they do Ukrainian jets when they risk flying a sorty. There’s nothing special about an F16.
F16s are a non-issue. As Martyanov likes to say, it’s a “PR matter”, not real. It’s just another public relations to show the US is still supporting Ukraine while having zero effect on the battlefield.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 14 2023 21:55 utc | 261

Posted by: Nobody | Mar 14 2023 20:34 utc | 233
«PMCs are PMCs. All around the world. It does not matter whether they are called Wagner»
From what I read Wagner is a regular unit of the Russian Federation military, the main difference is that it also recruits foreigners as contract soldiers, like the Foreign Legion of France, which is a regular unit of the french military, or the Gurkha regiment of the UK, which is also a regular unit of HM’s army. The USA military also regularly recruit foreigners in both support (e.g. most USA Navy ship cooks used to be filipinos) and fighting roles (e.g. many indian and mexican citizens in the army to get accelerated green card and citizenship, something not that dissimilar from Romen Empire practice).
«It must be undisputed that in a civilized society PMCs and/or similarly designed services have neither a place nor any right to exist.»
That’s just handwaving, and there is no good reason for that argument. Many states have essentially mercenary militaries, and it is hard to see for me what’s the essential difference between mercenary soldiers paid for directly by governments or indirectly via outsourced contractors.

Posted by: Blissex | Mar 14 2023 22:00 utc | 262

I invited Simplicius to come over to MoA and this is his reply:

Simplicius The Thinker replied to your comment on BREAKING: Russian Su-27’s Finally Down American Drone Near Crimea.
thanks. I try to read MOA when I can but at moment am so wrapped up with this stuff I’ve had no time to read other sites, simply cus I’m still trying to find a balance of daily writing for this, my second publication (Dark Futura) and all the other stuff (video sites etc) that I have to maintain. But I will see if I can go over there sometime

I told him I’m sure the barflies would like to see him here. I also said he’d be great at taking down the concern trolls. So maybe we’ll see him here at some point.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 14 2023 22:04 utc | 263

Posted by: Posa | Mar 14 2023 21:46 utc | 259
«With a national election looming next January and a big loss for rabid nationalists in the last election in ’22, the accomodationist KMT is on course to sweep next year. The result will be the status quo ante. With the further outcome of showing the US the door. Of course a coup s always possible»
If the residents of China-Taiwan were to vote 95% to become a province of the PRC, that would be declared by all “Washington Consensus” media and governments a “fake” and “undemocratic” vote because of “russian interference”, and a “color revolution” would be arranged quickly.
The island of Taiwan is strategically vital for USA Navy control of the Pacific (which is one of the pillars of the “rule based international order) and the “undemocratic” opinion of the residents of that island does not matter.
For people who have doubts, check the USA “conservatorship” of Iceland during WW2. “ubi major minor cessat”.

Posted by: Blissex | Mar 14 2023 22:08 utc | 264

SU 27 2500km/h
MQ-9 Reaper 350km/h
Turbulence crash

Posted by: la bouteille | Mar 14 2023 22:12 utc | 265

«For people who have doubts, check the USA “conservatorship” of Iceland during WW2. “ubi major minor cessat”.»
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/508167-two-us-carriers-through-the-taiwan-strait-in-48-years-time-for-more
«In the immediate post-war period, Washington’s strategic planners in the Truman administration shockingly determined that America’s Pacific security perimeter could exclude Taiwan and South Korea.»
After all they are just 8,000 miles of ocean from America…
«Washington’s civilian and military leaders then — Secretary of State Dean Acheson and Gen. Douglas MacArthur — conveyed that lack of strategic concern by pointing out lines on a map and backing up the perverse decision by withdrawing the Navy from the Taiwan Strait and the immediate environs. The communist dictators in Moscow, Beijing and Pyongyang welcomed what they saw as a green light for aggression, and the Korean War was on.
President Harry Truman, rueing his administration’s grievous mistake, announced, “[T]he occupation of Formosa by Communist forces would be a direct threat to the security of the Pacific area and to United States forces performing their lawful and necessary functions in that area. Accordingly, I have ordered the 7th Fleet to prevent any attack on Formosa. As a corollary of this action, I am calling upon the Chinese Government on Formosa to cease all air and sea operations against the mainland. The 7th Fleet will see that this is done.
»
Nothing has changed in 70 years as to that.

Posted by: Blissex | Mar 14 2023 22:13 utc | 266

Given that Russians now have all the hardware for communication with the drone, I doubt that US will dare to fly their drones anywhere close to Russia where they can be hacked and landed undamaged on a Russian airfield. Capture of the drone is a huge blow to the US as well as Ukraine.

Posted by: Milos | Mar 14 2023 22:18 utc | 267

Karlof1 no. 248
Thanks for that. The video conference link didn’t work for me though.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Mar 14 2023 22:19 utc | 268

Posted by: sal | Mar 14 2023 11:51 utc | 16
Facts sometimes don’t support popular held beliefs….maybe study the average IQ of sub Saharan nations…just sayin.
I think it’s fair to say that psychological operations supporting the Western war efforts against Russia are extensive and effective….the narrative unrelenting and repetitive to the point of nauseum….but ultimately wars are won by quite simply the destruction of Armies. The narrative is about to collapse …we see the narrative slowly changing…. Ukraine destroyed the Nordstream pipelines and all their experienced soldiers are dead….after the NATO underground operations center was caved in by the dagger… the provocations will come fast and furious…the U.S drone was flying without it’s transponder on and judging from it’s splash point….it was very very close to Russian military assets in Crimea. We could be seeing a Massive economic event happening in the U.S right now with the literal nationalization of banking…. ultimately all wars are bankers wars so look for escalation on the ground if economic turmoil and market collapse happens domestically.

Posted by: Joe | Mar 14 2023 22:23 utc | 269

ThusspakeZarathustra @269–
Thanks for your reply. I, too, have problems with Kremlin and MFA videos loading properly causing me to suspect jamming of some sort.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 14 2023 22:24 utc | 270

Russian pilots today shit on (dumped fuel on) a US spy drone over the Black Sea.
The pilots then flipped the spy drones wings, causing it to dysfunction and fall seaward.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Mar 14 2023 22:24 utc | 271

I’m guessing that at the Xi Jinping meeting with Putin as well as Zelensky next week he is going to push for a peace agreement. Will be very interesting to see what Zelensky’s handlers tell him to do. Surely Z wants to hang onto his job?!

Posted by: whitebeach | Mar 14 2023 22:25 utc | 272

Posted by: la bouteille | Mar 14 2023 22:12 utc | 266
Good point. Or simply gunned down with a standard airframe mounted cannon. It behooves both sides to keep any information indicating direct military engagement with weapons in “international airspace” out of the news.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 22:33 utc | 273

Posted by: HERMIUS | Mar 14 2023 22:24 utc | 272
Uh, late to the thread, are we? 🙂 There is an advantage to scanning long threads before posting. Just sayin’…

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 14 2023 22:33 utc | 274

,”US Senator calls on Russia’s Putin to stop ‘reckless’ behaviour”
LOL. They really do not think about what they are saying.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Mar 14 2023 20:14 utc | 219
Lackings in Irony and reflection seems to be a recurring theme of the US political ecosystem.

Posted by: jpc | Mar 14 2023 22:34 utc | 275

Posted by: Joe | Mar 14 2023 22:23 utc | 270
«happening in the U.S right now with the literal nationalization of banking….»
Banking has been nationalized in the USA for a long time, just the (fake) profits and bonuses are privatized, Hyman Minsky wrote already in 1987:
https://digitalcommons.bard.edu/hm_archive/144/
No matter how exalted a bank may have been, we all know that if assets were marked to market, the net worth of many of the giants of international banking would disappear.
Nevertheless these banks are able to sell their liabilities in financial markets, because the buyers believe that they will be protected against losses by the central bank.

Posted by: Blissex | Mar 14 2023 22:35 utc | 276

Posted by: Viktor K | Mar 14 2023 12:11 utc | 19
The Vietcong had better training than what Ukraine is sending into battle now. That said, the Vietcong were wiped out less than 3 years into full-scale US involvement. Take from that what you will.

Posted by: let’s get bizzay | Mar 14 2023 23:10 utc | 277

From what I read Wagner is a regular unit of the Russian Federation military…
Posted by: Blissex | Mar 14 2023 22:00 utc | 263

Thanks for your reply Blissex.
Prigozhin himself describes Wagner as a private enterprise. The principle of a foreign legion that is subordinate to the command of the regular armed forces does not apply in this case. Wagner Group is a purebred mercenary force with a profit motive.

…, and it is hard to see for me what’s the essential difference between mercenary soldiers
Posted by: Blissex | Mar 14 2023 22:00 utc | 263

Mercenaries are not soldiers. See Geneva Conventions.
Btw, the Geneva Conventions have good reason not to regard mercenaries as soldiers. 🙂

Posted by: Nobody | Mar 14 2023 23:21 utc | 278

The change in Western mainstream news reporting as evidenced in The New York Times and The Washington Post has to be of concern. Why have these newspapers changed their reporting, why are they doing it now and not before, and what is the aim? Is it to make the Western public feel guilty about not supporting the Banderites enough and more obliged to give up their freedoms and lifestyles, and to accept lower standards of living so that more billions of moolah can be rained down upon Kiev and into the Zelenskys’ bank accounts? (Did they have any accounts with SVB by the way?)

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Mar 14 2023 23:22 utc | 279

To be honest, if the US had any brains they would tell Ukraine to completely abandon conventional warfare and switch to guerilla strategy. When NATO began their invasion of Afghanistan the Taliban didn’t even bother engaging in conventional battle with NATO forces since they knew that would be impossible. Instead, they immediately fell back to defensive positions and prepared for a protracted guerilla campaign. Of course, that would assume that enough people in the areas annexed by Russia even oppose the annexation to begin with.

Posted by: let’s get bizzay | Mar 14 2023 23:25 utc | 280

@Posted by: Oriental Voice | Mar 14 2023 20:16 utc | 222
“I think China has been successful over the past 70+ years largely because of the caliber of its leadership. I hope this legacy perpetuates for another 70+ years or more.”
As long as the CPC maintains its integrity the bureaucracy will keep promoting based on merit. The average US general, politician or business “leader” could not hold a candle to these people. Obama most probably wouldn’t have past the exam to get into the CPC, let alone get promoted. In the US, its all about politics, connections, and doing what the moneyed-people tell you to do. The US has also not been challenged since Vietnam, so the military and the MIC are paper tigers led by donkeys. In Russia, the Siloviki managed to stay relatively uncorrupted, so you see actual competent people there (not all of them, but most).
What would the US do if Russia blew one of their spy drones, or even an AWACS, out of the sky over the Black Sea? Pile on more sanctions? Have US aircraft test the S-500s? We all know that these aircraft are taking an active part in directing the conflict, they are legitimate targets. Russia should have declared a no-fly zone for surveillance aircraft early on – anyone found monitoring Russian military activities gets blown out of the sky. The same should have gone for Musk and his satellite system, he made himself an active combatant. Putin seems to have endless patience, it has served him well but in some cases you need to punch the other guy in the face.

Posted by: Roger | Mar 14 2023 23:26 utc | 281

Why ис American training always emphasized as superior? What is American military knowledge, where has America won a war in last 300 yrs, especially on a land? Aren’t Russian and Ukrainian military knowledges 10 times greater and confirmed in wars?

Posted by: дулебг | Mar 14 2023 23:30 utc | 282

NOW LIVE Sy Hersh at National Press Club, hosted by The Committee for the Republic is hosting investigative reporter Seymour Hersh at the National Press Club in Washington March 14th Tuesday evening at 7 pm EDT to speak about his Nord Stream reporting.
Watch it live exclusively on Consortium News.
LINK

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 14 2023 23:40 utc | 283

Posted by: let’s get bizzay | Mar 14 2023 23:25 utc | 281
Guerrilla strategy only works if you’re dealing with a hostile force occuping territory against the will of the local population. The latter is important – look at the failure of the Malayan Insurgency.

Posted by: Technophobe | Mar 14 2023 23:52 utc | 284

The drone–whatever kind it was–was piloted by the Ghost of Kiev. RIP.

Posted by: MajorMike | Mar 14 2023 23:58 utc | 285

A coin has three sides.
On Tuesday morning Moskova time. Directly off the coast of Crimea. One USSAf marked unmanned USSAF MQ9 drone crashed into the Black Sea.
New USSAF* Cold War 2.0 SOP speak: The evil RF Air Force shot down our MQ9 drone in international air space!
*The USSAF in 1950-53 created a mythical air superiority fighter jet. By deflating the plane’s losses from 228 to 78. Then inflated the opposing forces’ aircraft losses from the actual real combat losses of 319 to well over 780 plus.
Flip the coin.
The two RF SU27 pilots noted the MQ9 drone stalled in mid-air and fell into the coastal Crimean waters. Also noted in direct violation of international law. The USSAF owned and operated MQ9(armed?) drone. Neither the military nor the civilian Radar automatic ID transponders were switched on. At the time of the incident.
Truth is stranger than fiction. Mark Twain

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Mar 15 2023 0:03 utc | 286

Listening to Sy Hersh on Youtube at the Press Club…
One thing I’ve noticed is that Sy, who is not young at 85 years, has become more garrulous than he used to be. He’s always been someone who talks in more or less random sentences, at least since I’ve seen him on video interviews over the last ten years. He still makes sense, but it’s fractured and more or less rambling. This doesn’t help him. He also doesn’t have a lot of patience with people asking questions he’s either already answered or that he thinks is stupid – which is not unreasonable. But that also doesn’t help his public persona and thus his communication ability. He’s fine writing, and he has an editor, but in person he’s harder to follow than Martyanov. 🙂
None of that actually matters in terms of his impact, fortunately. This is just an observation. I have utmost respect for Hersh.
He just said one important thing, “I know more about it than I can say.” Unfortunately, that doesn’t help, either.
Reporter just made a point that if Biden did what he did, that is an impeachable offense. Good luck with that.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 15 2023 0:18 utc | 287

I am only a few years younger than Sy and suffer all the same maladies, I can forgive him.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Mar 15 2023 0:23 utc | 288

USA flying a drone near Crimea with it’s transponder off is an esculation by USA not by Russia.
The USA psychopaths are never going to back down until RUSSIA escalates. I hope it’s sooner rather than later.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Mar 15 2023 0:33 utc | 289

The Sy appearance just ended, after 84 minutes. He kept asking, “What time is it, midnight? I want to get out of here!” LOL Can’t keep an old guy past his bedtime!

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 15 2023 0:36 utc | 290

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 19:44 utc | 203
so true!! thanks for your posts…
@ richard steven hack, outrageous, karlof1 and some others – thanks also for your posts…

Posted by: james | Mar 15 2023 1:07 utc | 291

Some aspects of the story of downing the Reaper don’t add up completely. The part about damaging the propeller. I don’t see a pilot willingly damaging his aircraft to bring down a Reaper. I agree that the “fuel” was more likely chaff that could have been ingested by the engine, causing a loss of power. In any case, if it has been recovered the main benefit is not in reverse engineering it. Russia already knows how to build a relatively low-tech UAS like this. The benefit comes from seeing up close what it has for secure links and how to fool and/or defeat them.

Posted by: promptcritical | Mar 15 2023 1:22 utc | 292

Please present evidence of progressive high-IQ African civilizations, along with real per capita GDP estimates.
Posted by: Greg | Mar 14 2023 16:52 utc | 110
In order for me to respond as accurately as possible, please indicate whether you normally measure skulls in metric or imperial increments. I’m guessing the latter is the case, but please confirm.

Posted by: nwwoods | Mar 15 2023 1:23 utc | 293

“Putin explains Germany’s stance on Nord Stream sabotage by lack of independence”:

Russian President Vladimir Putin explained Germany’s stance regarding last year’s sabotage attack on the Nord Stream gas pipelines by the fact that Germany has never been truly independent after World War II.
“Even European politicians themselves have repeatedly acknowledged publicly that Germany has never been a fully sovereign country after the Second World War. I didn’t say that, but at least one well-known and respected German politician did. I can only agree to that,” the Russian president told journalist Pavel Zarubin in an interview aired on Rossiya-1.
The statement came as a response to the question of why Berlin remained silent and inactive regarding the Nord Stream sabotage, despite the project’s importance for German economy and energy security.
Putin emphasized that, at some point, the Soviet Union “withdrew its troops and ended its de-facto occupation of the country.” “But, as we all know, the Americans did not. They continue to occupy Germany,” he added.

And there’s the matter-of-fact truth of the matter. Occupied Germany had its major gas supply pipelines destroyed by its occupier that controls its sovereignty. The message provided probably to Merkle was something like this: “We’re going to alter the type of nation Germany is and that’s the way it’s going to be.” Recall that Trump also charged Europe for being dependent on Russian hydrocarbons and that needed to cease. Trump also recently said Europe wasn’t paying enough for the destruction of Ukraine. And we know both BushCo and Obama opposed the construction of NS1. Keeping Europe a colony is primary Outlaw US Empire policy towards Europe since the end of WW2, which is the easiest way to explain the behavior of those supposedly running EU/NATO nations.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 15 2023 1:23 utc | 294

Drone:
Propeller is at the very rear. It would not be hard for the Russian jet to have approached it from the rear with the drone moving around such that the nose of the SU-27 just got inside the arc of the propeller for an instant.
Likely some video of at least parts of the incident will be released by the US. The Russians should likely have some too?

Posted by: Bill Smith | Mar 15 2023 1:24 utc | 295

Posted by: Grey | Mar 14 2023 11:30 utc | 10
A horde of uneducated low-IQ sub-Saharans is “vibrant diversity.” And sending your young men into a meat grinder to die for no reason is “victory”.
You would be better off ruled by sub Saharans.
You are currently ruled by hordes of low iq Anglos, Khazars and Eurotrash, with a few coconuts and bananas thrown in for “room service”.
Your collapsing Empire is run by the lilly-whitest of lilly white colonial throwbacks.
Think on that.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 15 2023 1:26 utc | 296

O goodie its racist time! When do we start talking about the Jews?

Posted by: Baiter | Mar 15 2023 1:29 utc | 297

Posted by: Baiter | Mar 15 2023 1:29 utc | 299
When do we start talking about the Jews?
When “Jews” become an actual “race”.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Mar 15 2023 1:35 utc | 298

Armies collapse like people go bankrupt: slowly and the suddenly. It’s not possible to predict when the VSU will collapse with much accuracy because there are too many unknowns. But it’s a pretty safe bet to say it will. If you’re here regularly, Outraged has been doing a masterful job of putting the info together to show it. The turn in American media portrayal of the conflict is the tell that everyone in the know is expecting it now.
In the WaPo piece it’s worth pointing out that the tales of Ukrainian woe come from frontline soldiers. When it comes to Russian losses the source switches to a security think tank in the US. I’d bet they didn’t like the numbers they were getting from the Ukrainians or how those numbers extrapolated. The American public isn’t ready for the whole truth. It needs to comfort itself with piles of dead Russians.

Posted by: Lex | Mar 15 2023 1:39 utc | 299

re. Wagner being a purely private PMC or extended arm of the RAF, we can draw a somewhat reasonable conclusion based on these details:
1) Wagner allows deployments beyond Russian borders and places that Russia hasn’t declared war at.
2) Wagner can recruit foreigners to fight for Russia in exchange for pay and accelerated citizenship, pretty much like the French Foreign Legion. This kind of sets their model apart from US PMC like Blackwaters.
2) Good ol’ plausible deniability of scope of involvement and casualities. Much better shaping of narratives and public opinions when your main force remains mostly at supporting roles whereas the opposite site is in tatters (for real, unlike what Ursula claimed about Russian economy)
4) The fact that Wagner has access to heavy armaments with that much missile/arty support on standby indicates access if not management oversight from RAF. I lean towards the latter rather than the former, as the pieces fit together much better for the following point as well.
5) RAF is undergoing a transformation/upgrade throughout the SMO. Everyone already mentioned the office/soldier quality disparity between 2 sides, and I would want to point out another oft repeated point elsewhere but less here – Battalion Tactical Group was a stopgap measure designed for the under-funded and under-manned RAF during 2000s and not meant to be permanent. BTG would likely be re-formed into full-fledged brigades again to afford that staying power as we’ve seen that BTG packs alot of firepower but lacks the infantry for urban warfare. Or there could be supplementary shock troop formations (old German tactics, anyone?) to break through. Guess which group besides the Chechens in Mariuopol is excellent at that?
6) One can’t help but notice the unusual media personalities that RAF had and has been putting out there. First was Kadyrov for the siege of Mariuopol and now Prigozhin for Artyomovsk meatgrinder. Different men with different scripts calculated to drive and achieve different outcomes at different times. Take Prigozhin, his random outbursts achieved the main outcome of funnelling even more personnel and equipment into the killing zone. Prigozhin is fulfilling SMO objectives as foretold, as most pointed out, Hollywood-style shock and awe isn’t how you decimate an enemy’s fighting capabilities and force them to the negotiating table. You have to drain personnel, equipment and even the political will to fight out of Ukraine. By having ‘conflicts’ between Wagner and RAF aired out, the illusion that 404 and NATO have a chance to remains. Just 10s of thousands more deaths, just 100s more tanks and planes until Russia folds, or the last Ukranian!
7) Could anyone seriously think that Wagner actually lacked ammo and had people dying in droves? If Wagner managed to routed and drove back NATO trained/equipped/supported forces + mercs, what would that say about NATO then? Leaving PRs aside it is more like, Wagner was and is still enjoying full combined arms advantage that could only be afforded as part of an integrated armed force.
I managed to ramble on for so long, apologies!

Posted by: _newbie_ | Mar 15 2023 1:40 utc | 300