Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 14, 2023
Ukraine – Media Start To Acknowledge Reality

Finally some truth about the real state of the Ukrainian military is sneaking into main stream media. It is as bad, still not fully disclosed, as we have described it again and again.

As the Washington Post provides:

Ukraine short of skilled troops and munitions as losses, pessimism grow

I'll leave out the propaganda bits and go for the factual beef. The quotes are long but needed to grasp the depth of horrible situation.

The opening paragraph:

The quality of Ukraine’s military force, once considered a substantial advantage over Russia, has been degraded by a year of casualties that have taken many of the most experienced fighters off the battlefield, leading some Ukrainian officials to question Kyiv’s readiness to mount a much-anticipated spring offensive.

That spring offensive is as likely to happen as the announced relief campaign to unblock Bakhmut. The later is bogged down in mud which will only become worse over the next few weeks.

The spring campaign will be made up of green recruits which will use a wild mix of weapons they are not familiar with. Unless there are some 'western' surprises I see no way how it can overwhelm the well prepared Russian defense lines.

Back to the piece:

[Á]n influx of inexperienced draftees, brought in to plug the losses, has changed the profile of the Ukrainian force, which is also suffering from basic shortages of ammunition, including artillery shells and mortar bombs, according to military personnel in the field.

“The most valuable thing in war is combat experience,” said a battalion commander in the 46th Air Assault Brigade, who is being identified only by his call sign, Kupol, in keeping with Ukrainian military protocol. “A soldier who has survived six months of combat and a soldier who came from a firing range are two different soldiers. It’s heaven and earth.”

“And there are only a few soldiers with combat experience,” Kupol added. “Unfortunately, they are all already dead or wounded.”

Such grim assessments have spread a palpable, if mostly unspoken, pessimism from the front lines to the corridors of power in Kyiv, the capital.

Ukrainian losses, estimated to be nearer to 200,000 than to 100,000 dead with even more wounded, are especially felt at the lower command level. One can not just take a salesman or teacher from the street and put them into a junior command role.

Kupol said he was speaking out in hopes of securing better training for Ukrainian forces from Washington and that he hopes Ukrainian troops being held back for a coming counteroffensive will have more success than the inexperienced soldiers now manning the front under his command.

“There’s always belief in a miracle,” he said. “Either it will be a massacre and corpses or it’s going to be a professional counteroffensive. There are two options. There will be a counteroffensive either way.”

It indeed will need a miracle for the counteroffensive to become anything but a massacre.

One senior Ukrainian government official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to be candid, called the number of tanks promised by the West a “symbolic” amount. Others privately voiced pessimism that promised supplies would even reach the battlefield in time.

“If you have more resources, you more actively attack,” the senior official said. “If you have fewer resources, you defend more. We’re going to defend. That’s why if you ask me personally, I don’t believe in a big counteroffensive for us. I’d like to believe in it, but I’m looking at the resources and asking, ‘With what?’ Maybe we’ll have some localized breakthroughs.”

“We don’t have the people or weapons,” the senior official added. “And you know the ratio: When you’re on the offensive, you lose twice or three times as many people. We can’t afford to lose that many people.”

The U.S. is not going to ask if the "Ukraine can afford the losses". It will push for a large attack which will have little chance to even get out of its preparation phase.

Kupol, who consented to having his photograph taken and said he understood he could face personal blowback for giving a frank assessment, described going to battle with newly drafted soldiers who had never thrown a grenade, who readily abandoned their positions under fire and who lacked confidence in handling firearms.

His unit withdrew from Soledar in eastern Ukraine in the winter after being surrounded by Russian forces who later captured the city. Kupol recalled how hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers in units fighting alongside his battalion simply abandoned their positions, even as fighters for Russia’s Wagner mercenary group pressed ahead.

After a year of war, Kupol, a lieutenant colonel, said his battalion is unrecognizable. Of about 500 soldiers, roughly 100 were killed in action and another 400 wounded, leading to complete turnover. Kupol said he was the sole military professional in the battalion, and he described the struggle of leading a unit composed entirely of inexperienced troops.

“I get 100 new soldiers,” Kupol said. “They don’t give me any time to prepare them. They say, ‘Take them into the battle.’ They just drop everything and run. That’s it. Do you understand why? Because the soldier doesn’t shoot. I ask him why, and he says, ‘I’m afraid of the sound of the shot.’ And for some reason, he has never thrown a grenade. … We need NATO instructors in all our training centers, and our instructors need to be sent over there into the trenches. Because they failed in their task.”

He described severe ammunition shortages, including a lack of simple mortar bombs and grenades for U.S.-made MK 19s.

“You’re on the front line,” Kupol said. “They’re coming toward you, and there’s nothing to shoot with.”

Kupol said Kyiv needed to focus on better preparing new troops in a systematic way. “It’s like all we do is give interviews and tell people that we’ve already won, just a little bit further away, two weeks, and we’ll win,” he said.

Yes, Kiev, helped by 'western' media, is speaking of a victory that is unlikely to ever come. The view from the field is way different:

Dmytro, a Ukrainian soldier whom The Post is identifying only by first name for security reasons, described many of the same conditions. Some of the less-experienced troops serving at his position with the 36th Marine Brigade in the Donetsk region “are afraid to leave the trenches,” he said. Shelling is so intense at times, he said, that one soldier will have a panic attack, then “others catch it.”

The first time he saw fellow soldiers very shaken, Dmytro said, he tried to talk them through the reality of the risks. The next time, he said, they “just ran from the position.”

“I don’t blame them,” he said. “They were so confused.”

Yes, shell shock is real. Being under artillery fire is terrifying. Especially when you are a newbie, sit in a ditch without armor and with no way to respond to it.

Russian artillery supremacy is why Ukrainian losses are a multiple of those on the Russian side. But even if foot soldiers are available and well trained there is nothing that can make up for the loss of an army's backbone:

Ukraine has lost many of its junior officers who received U.S. training over the past nine years, eroding a corps of leaders who helped distinguish the Ukrainians from their Russian enemies at the start of the invasion, the Ukrainian official said. Now, the official said, those forces must be replaced. “A lot of them are killed,” the official said.

Replaced with what? It takes years to train a master sergeant or captain. These positions require experience in the field. No civilian training can replace that. Three week courses, run by 'western' officers with no real war experience, will not be able to make up for this:

Even with new equipment and training, U.S. military officials consider Ukraine’s force insufficient to attack all along the giant front, where Russia has erected substantive defenses, so troops are being trained to probe for weak points that allow them to break through with tanks and armored vehicles.

There will be no weak points. Or maybe there will be some, intentionally left open by the Russians, to draw the Ukrainian 'counterattack' in to then entrap it in one big cauldron.

It is over for the Ukraine. The Russian forces are enveloping Ukrainian units in several small cauldrons. Bakhmut is only one of them. South of it is the New York agglomeration which will become another one. Anviivka, further south, is also in big trouble and may even become the first of the three to fall.


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Even the New York Times has started to notice it:

From Kupiansk in the north to Avdiivka in the south, through Bakhmut, Lyman and dozens of towns in between, Russian forces are attacking along a 160-mile arc in eastern Ukraine in an intensifying struggle for tactical advantage before possible spring offensives. Heavy fighting was reported on Monday in and around Avdiivka, a town that has been on the front lines for much of the past year and in recent days has once again become a focal point of combat.

In Bakhmut, where the Wagner private military company has seized control of the eastern side of the city, brutal combat is taking place in the streets, the blasted remains of buildings and deep underground in the warrens of mines, according to Russian military bloggers.

In Kupiansk and surrounding villages, Russia has stepped up shelling and probing ground assaults, and Ukraine has ordered civilians to leave. Russian shelling intensified in Lyman and other towns, as well. According to the Ukrainian military, Russian forces make more than 100 attempts each day to break through their lines.

With few people or intact buildings, the most hotly contested places have little left to offer beyond control of roads and railways that the Kremlin sees as important to its goal of seizing the entire eastern region known as the Donbas. The assaults may also yield better positioning for the next attack, intelligence about the other side’s positions and propaganda value.

Not mention by the NYT, but most important is that the Russian forces in all these attacks are destroying the Ukrainian army.

In a few weeks, after those three cauldrons have collapsed, the Ukrainian army will be on the run. It will be summer by then and the mud will have dried up. The Russian forces will then become more mobile which may even allow for wider 'big arrow' moves.

The only way for the Ukrainian army to counter those moves will be the use of the forces it currently prepares for a 'counteroffensive' as defense formations.

But even that will only give it another three month or so before the inevitable collapse arrives.

Comments

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Mar 14 2023 12:32 utc | 23

But for some reason, all these analysts for some reason forget that, on the other hand, in the Russian trenches and in our positions there is exactly the same mule, and no less dirt. Only the Russian army is not yet on the defensive, but is advancing, which, in the conditions of the kingdom of Mulyaki, creates additional difficulties for advancement. And additional difficulties – this is too mild an expression to describe what it is like in an offensive battle half a pound of mud on each leg. When just moving forward by moving your legs is already difficult. And you still have to shoot, storm, take cover from enemy fire, etc. so do not sin on the dirt and the weather.
In fact, the heavy losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Artemovsk, and not only there, are caused by only two reasons – the effectiveness of our soldiers and the direct command of their troops by the commanders of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Excellent point by the author. Maybe the supposed “Russian big-arrow offensive” is indeed slowed by the mud. But in reality that offensive continues every day. It’s just not “big arrow” because it doesn’t have to be due to the incompetence of the Ukrainian – and by extension – Western military.
As Martyanov continually says, the West, and thus Ukraine, are led by people “who never won shit in their lives” and “don’t know what real war is.”
The Russians know. And they’ve won most of the wars they’ve been in. including the last big one against people much like the Ukrainians. And the Russians remember that one vividly, which motivates them to win this one.
I repeat the truth again: Based on the military balance – and the motivations of Russia – it is a physical impossibility for Russia to lose this war, short of nukes being deployed against them.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 14 2023 16:21 utc | 101

Ukrainian army needs more weapons, ammo to hold hotly contested Artyomovsk — spokesman

Ukrainian troops in Artyomovsk (known as Bakhmut in Ukraine) in the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) need more weapons and munitions to hold the city, Nikita Shandyba, spokesman for the Ukrainian army’s 10th Mountain Assault “Edelweiss” Brigade, said on Monday.
“In general, there are no shortages in our line of defense [in Artyomovsk], but we need more munitions, more weapons. <…> The major issue is munitions,” he said in an interview with the Rada television channel when asked what Ukrainian troops in Artyomovsk need to keep the city.
“We have been here for the tenth month in a row without rotation. Rotations are carried out only locally – soldiers can go on R&R just for a few days. <…> It is difficult, the more so given that the weather is quite wet and cold,” he said.
Alexander Syrsky, commander of Ukrainian land forces, said on Monday that the situation in Artyomovsk is difficult.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 14 2023 16:24 utc | 102

… quite a few well informed and very reliable voices are warning of a mass drone attack trying to reach the Sea of Azov, Crimea is the big prize, …
Posted by: Paco | Mar 14 2023 15:45 utc | 84

Sensibly so, the ability to exhaust almost any AD with cheapo drones is confounding factor that upends a lot of previously settled calculations. For all the impact of drones on this conflict its surprising how low tech the deployed systems are, there is a lot of scope for new systems to be quietly developed and hoarded by both sides
If you have any related links handy, please feel free to post them!

Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 14 2023 16:33 utc | 103

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 14 2023 13:47 utc | 42
“Behind Ukraine peace proposal, China foresees end to war in summer – Nikkei Asia”
Pretty much agrees with the previous assessments by Ritter, Macgregor, et al – and me.
Simplicius thinks it will go on for another two years, but he bases that on the speed of the present engagements. He forgets, I think, the maxim that armies fight on until they can’t – then they collapse. I can’t predict precisely when the collapse will occur but I think it will happen by end of summer. Regardless of how much further manpower the Ukrainians dredge up with mobilizations, there is a limit to that and also a limit to how effective such a mess can be on the battlefield, as b’s post shows. Ukraine just gets weaker despite increased manpower, while the Russians get stronger with each increased manpower.
So the Ukraine war can not continue for too much longer, unless Poland enters the war, which is problematic at this point since Poland’s mobilization will not be ready for a couple years, so too little, too late. The US’ only other option is direct intervention by NATO beyond Poland, also problematic.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 14 2023 16:33 utc | 104

So tldr B’s artful deconstruction of the news cycle has discovered a chink in the fortress of Ukrainian propaganda, which is his insight that the main limit of any war is that the people best qualified to conduct campaigns are continuously murdered?
Incredible analysis.
Ok so let me build on this thinking in three points…
First, it sounds like a true mgmt problem.
Second, How can planners adapt?
Third… Let’s see, it takes at least one Friedman in the trenches to produce crack soldiers…
I’ve got it! Send more recruits to the front to be trained. Victory is at hand!
See my map with a line on it to get the full picture.

Posted by: Arrnon | Mar 14 2023 16:41 utc | 105

This is all Victoria Nuland’s fault. Why, oh why, did she hold back on her tons of cookie batter?
Perhaps some day the people of Ukraine, or what’s left of it, can personally show Vicky their appreciation for her service in Ukraine.

Posted by: Fred777 | Mar 14 2023 16:43 utc | 106

@Outraged | Mar 14 2023 16:15 utc | 97
Nice video 🙂
Simple, robust, and effective are good design criteria for military hardware as well as tools and machines in general.

Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 14 2023 16:47 utc | 107

Thanks for the continuing coverage on this front, b. In one light, this all seems like a bunch of fancy ‘splaining to say, “we really really thought the neo-Nazis were unbeatable and would save us”.

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Mar 14 2023 16:49 utc | 108

‘A horde of uneducated low-IQ sub-Saharans is “vibrant diversity.” And sending your young men into a meat grinder to die for no reason is “victory”.
‘Very racist comment!!! Sub Saharans were high IQ progressive civilizations long before your types.’
As b himself still needs to learn, social outcomes depend on the people involved as well as the politico-economic system. On average, ethnic Russians are not the same as ethnic sub-Saharans. Swiss-German bankers are not the same as Jewish bankers. Poor ethnic Chinese in Chinatown don’t engage in gun crimes and assaults. Etc.
Please present evidence of progressive high-IQ African civilizations, along with real per capita GDP estimates.

Posted by: Greg | Mar 14 2023 16:52 utc | 109

It seems that average Ukrainian soldiers are slowly realizing the 2014 Maidan party as promoted by the west is coming to an abrupt end. Their infantile dream of defeating their brotherly neighbor which happened to be a superpower, by applying western woke nonsense, tattoos, swastikas, drugs other BS hidden behind an eccentric form of nationalism is over.

Posted by: maskazer | Mar 14 2023 16:54 utc | 110

Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 14 2023 16:33 utc | 103
I follow Vladlen Tatarsky in TG, he works with Rybar, he’s moving around the fronts with a Duma MP trying to grease the bureacratic machine so as to pay attention to the new characteristics of this battle, like the use of drones for instance, I follow Prigozhin, he is just something to hear and behold, his language is demolishing punk, Khodokovsky, Readovka and others, go to Tatarsky’s TG and you’ll get good reliable links there. That’s straight from the fronts, not some recicled stuff far away, once in a while I take a look at Texas Bentley and an Italian guy by the name of Rangeloni. Also a Russian nice looking girl that posts in impeccable Spanish with English translations, Liu Sivaya.
https://t.me/vladlentatarsky/19857

Posted by: Paco | Mar 14 2023 16:55 utc | 111

This excerpt b provided caught my eye:
“Kupol said he was speaking out in hopes of securing better training for Ukrainian forces from Washington and that he hopes Ukrainian troops being held back for a coming counteroffensive will have more success than the inexperienced soldiers now manning the front under his command.” [My Emphasis]
Not training from NATO but specifically “from Washington,” which admits the Outlaw US Empire’s deep involvement and actual status of being at war with Russia. And if Washington is indeed training troops (it’s in charge of NATO so it most certainly is), it’s doing a very poor job. Even soldiers who’ve gone through basic infantry training remain Green and subject to breaking easily as Kupol and others have described. And as I’ve asked before, how many of those trainees outside Ukraine will allow themselves to be shipped back to die, or will their trains be sealed and staffed with guards like the cattle cars that brought prisoners to the Concentration Camps? Of course, those troops will be lied to about the reality of the war so they’re not spooked, but news has a way of infiltrating even the most supposedly well secured base/prison.
I wonder how many readers will see what I saw–testimony of Washington’s direct involvement and what that means? And how widely disseminated is the news item; was it picked up by USA Today and other large publications?

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 14 2023 17:01 utc | 112

Look like Russia just dumped a U.S. MQ-9 drone.
Link

Russian Su-27 collides with U.S. MQ-9, U.S. military says. Collision forced U.S. forces to “bring the MQ-9 down in international waters,” Pentagon says. Before the collision, Russian Su-27s ” dumped fuel on and flew in front of the MQ-9.”

Well Washington, what are you going to do about that?

Posted by: b | Mar 14 2023 17:03 utc | 113

b | Mar 14 2023 17:03 utc | 113
Russia calling US/NATO’s extended bluff & weak hand. Put up or shut-up. Had to happen at some point. International waters ? Where was it when bumped …

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 14 2023 17:07 utc | 114

Posted by: Sam | Mar 14 2023 14:37 utc | 62
Could be, but I am pretty sure that the Russians don’t pay much attention to the western press.
The audience of the western press is always inward, to keep the sheep in line. If they’re bitching about Ukrainian losses all of the sudden, it is likely a psy-op aimed at their own sheep. Conditioning them to accept a sudden turn in events that may not be so pleasant for their masters.
Now, that being said, I would not let my guard down period. They are probably holding some troops back; we don’t know for what yet, but it will likely involve treachery of some sort, as that is all they know.

Posted by: Chris | Mar 14 2023 17:07 utc | 115

“JUST IN: @US_EUCOM
says 2 Russian Su-27 Flanker fighter jets dumped fuel, then collided w a US MQ-9 Reaper drone operating within international airspace over the Black Sea today,causing the drone to crash.”
https://twitter.com/wjhenn/status/1635687045640204301/photo/1

Posted by: escalation happens | Mar 14 2023 17:11 utc | 116

This breaking news has just appeared on the BBC news website
“Russian fighter jet collides with US surveillance drone over Black Sea, forcing US to bring down drone, US military says”
Where do we go from here ?

Posted by: Engineer-John | Mar 14 2023 17:13 utc | 117

Washington wants out at this time.
Posted by: Chris Cosmos | Mar 14 2023 14:05 utc | 52

Chris truely a fine analysis and I believe your points are correct. However, my guesstimate is that Washington will double down on failure. It’s my belief that Washington is prepping a massive military effort for a glorious 2024 counter offensive with upwards of 750,000 ground forces.
I pray that I am wrong, but….

Posted by: Exile | Mar 14 2023 17:15 utc | 118

“Voluntary” mobilisation in Odessa continues
https://twitter.com/Sinnaig/status/1635680813168701456

Posted by: Down South | Mar 14 2023 17:15 utc | 119

Interesting the “bumping” didn’t bring down the Russian jet, a whole new game if the Russians have a technique to stop the MQ-9

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Mar 14 2023 17:19 utc | 120

Re the drone ? Iran did the same, outside conflict, over Iran, US no response. China took an entire ELINT AC back in 2001, ‘hosted’ the aircrew & analysts, US no response. Iran battered two US Iraqi bases with a dozen precision MRBM’s post Solomeini(?) Assassination, US no response.
Calm down folks …
@ Richard Steven Hack | Mar 14 2023 16:33 utc | 104
“Tis impossible to predict due myriad interlinked complexities & factors within Empire, Ukraine, AFU and the AFU soldiers in the field themselves. The result is long foregone though, a fortnight, a month, yet due materiel losses, criticality re ammo ‘exhaustion’ not mere supply & they’re taking casualties far quicker than they can replace via press-gangs ?
End of March, May ? Beyond that unlikely, beyond Jun/Jul would require RF to deliberately reduce OPs to minimal tempo to intentionally retain a crippled AFU on the field. RF could finish this in a fortnight or less if they so chose.
Not only weaker v stronger, more capable v less capable, hardened v brittle.
Apart from manpower, AFU cannot wage war without functioning logistics, especially ordnance above all. No shells, mortar rounds, rockets or small arms ammo, I mean ZERO, for units in a cascade, and that day is fast approaching.
There are delusional possibilities re Poland & NATO, yes, but Empires only real-world option is abandonment of it’s proxy. That’s the reason for the gradual yet accelerating narrative change leading to that Situ since Jan20’23, IMV. Anticipate RF will have to issue Formal Ultimatums to Baltics & Poland, perhaps Finland if they don’t awake, once Ukraine is dealt with, beyond that ? There cannot be a pseudo-Korean War end to this, far too much treachery going back generations, IMO.
Simplicius = Rybar. Withhold comment, maintain my own counsel, in this forum. YMMV
@ the pessimist | Mar 14 2023 16:47 utc | 107
You are most welcome. Cheers.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 14 2023 17:20 utc | 121

@Helena Cobban 34|
It is wonderful to see you in the “Bar” – Other commenters (Lev Davidovich, AlephNull) have noticed your strong comment.
I know Helena Cobban since her time in the Christian Science Monitor and love her insights.
Your presence here shows the high reputation of the MoA. Compliments to “b” for this accomplishment.

Posted by: fanto | Mar 14 2023 17:20 utc | 122

the msm is a pack of well trained dogs (or perhaps a school of fish). they pivot instantly from Afghanistan (anybody remember that war) to Ukraine, and now China, as Ukraine starts going tits up (i’m stealing that phrase from the brits). I just hope the crazy ass neocons in Washington don’t start a nuclear war in the next year or so. I think there is a small chance of a Pentagon military coup, cause I think there are factions in washington that would prefer not to get their asses blown up in a crazed ideological crusade. I think the US is eventually going to fracture, it’s just predicting how that will happen that’s hard.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 14 2023 17:21 utc | 123

USA/NATO is beating a nearly dead horse.
Good luck with that.

Posted by: g wiltek | Mar 14 2023 17:21 utc | 124

“Bumped into” might be a way to diplomatically say, shot down.
Remember, there are fragile stock markets to prop up. Can’t have the market taking a dump on WWIII.

Posted by: Chris | Mar 14 2023 17:21 utc | 125

Ha Ha. The Russians just rammed an American drone and downed it. They flew their jet into it.
I’m waiting for a F35 to do that to a Russian drone, and the jet will down.
And it is about time!

Posted by: g wiltek | Mar 14 2023 17:26 utc | 126

@ pretzelattack | Mar 14 2023 17:21 utc | 124

a small chance of a Pentagon military coup

Concur. Milley, others, DOD/DIA, were publicly outspoken yet suppressed Dec’22/Jan’23. Which factions masters are protecting & enabling Hersh vs Biden/Neocon crazies ?

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 14 2023 17:32 utc | 127

Posted by: Engineer-John | Mar 14 2023 17:13 utc | 118
“Forced US to bring down drone” i.e. “forced laws of physics to bring down drone”? Gotta love that wording.

Posted by: unimperator | Mar 14 2023 17:35 utc | 128

I’m gonna put on my concern troll hat and ask, why are US drones allowed to operate anywhere in the Black Sea? Shoot, shoot, shoot ’em down.

Posted by: Chris | Mar 14 2023 17:42 utc | 129

On the drone/Su-27 encounter, I doubt the report of the jets dumping fuel; might have been chaff. Also, “tipping” drones is one method to down them as their remote pilots have difficulty reacting to such an action. A few weeks back I suggested radar painting/missile locking NATO recon planes over Black Sea to provide their crews with some excitement. It makes no difference where the drone was since the Outlaw US Empire is a direct party to the war being waged on Russia regardless what is said by its spokespeople. So, the intercept was legal.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 14 2023 17:42 utc | 130

Incident occurs after Russian fighters ‘conducted an unsafe and unprofessional intercept’ of the Reaper, Pentagon says
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/russian-jet-collides-with-us-drone-over-black-sea-pentagon/2845572

Posted by: Oui | Mar 14 2023 17:46 utc | 131

So apparently two Su-27s had an “encounter” with an US MQ-9 Reaper over the Black Sea. The drone was destroyed. Western reports claim it was a “collision”. Russian sources aren’t yet clear on how it was brought down.
Bottom line: this represents a long-anticipated escalation.

Posted by: Irish | Mar 14 2023 17:46 utc | 132

But US Americans, as a rule, are relentlessly drilled from childhood to look the other way — it’s the American way, the oblivious way: anti-Ahimsa. Look (at, or rather, away from) East Palestine, Ohio — another sign of the times when internal colonialism reaches a new high-water mark of thoughtlessness. US American “morale” is not yet as demolished as that of Ukrainians, but it’s circling the drain.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Mar 14 2023 15:24 utc | 75
I follow a group on social media that posts evidence of the staggering toxicity and incompetence of the US Army. It’s like group therapy for active duty and vets. Kind of a laugh instead of crying sort of thing.
For some reason (/s) recruiters seem to be really struggling right now. There was a post from a recruiter venting about being told to eff off by a sign-spinner wearing a duck suit even after being offered a whole $35k bonus. I expected to see a lot of ridicule of the duck suit person for having the audacity to reject the Army from such a lowly station and wasn’t disappointed. However, I read something interesting that I hadn’t seen before. There were a significant number of veterans that were calling out US Imperialism for what it is. Not directly, of course, but dancing around it with “endless, pointless wars”, “sacrificing our countrymen for nothing”, “fighting for the MIC profits”, “he doesn’t want to die for Ukraine”, etc.
I hadn’t seen this shift in tone or even light acknowledgment before. Usually, it’s the “the Army is terrible but Rah Rah ‘Merica” or “we’re the good guys fighting evil”. What was more surprising is I expected the commenters to be shark attacked by the others in this huge group but it was actually cosigners or crickets. I think reality is starting to dawn even on the most dedicated and cash biased US supporters.
For additional insight into how bad US military leadership has become and why the problem is cultural, I recommend “The Cost of Loyalty” by Tim Bakken. I just finished it on Audible and things at a higher level are much worse than I realized from my time in service.

Posted by: Dystopian | Mar 14 2023 17:46 utc | 133

@Chris | Mar 14 2023 17:21 utc | 126
The official story is that they hit the propeller – maybe with landing gear or a wing tip? I guess dumping fuel on it wasn’t enough.
They are clearly fuming about it. They call the Russian pilots behavior “Unsafe, dangerous, and unprofessional” lol Seems rather skillful flying to me. Quite professional and well deserved.
“Our MQ-9 was conducting routine operations in international airspace…” Lets hope it becomes less routine from here on out.

Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 14 2023 17:47 utc | 134

@John Kennard | Mar 14 2023 14:05 utc | 53

The RF have made the wonderful discovery
that, if they achieve and hold a near-encirclement, Zelensky & Co. will pour reinforcements into what becomes a huge de facto fire-trap.

You can check in anytime you want, but you can never leave. (apologies)

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 17:48 utc | 135

Posted by: Irish | Mar 14 2023 17:46 utc | 133
I read somewhere Us had stationed two Reaper drones in Estonia……….looks like it is only one now

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 14 2023 17:48 utc | 136

Well Washington, what are you going to do about that?
@ Posted by: b | Mar 14 2023 17:03 utc | 114
Reply: We can’t do nuthin. Our banks are collapsing, bond market blew up, trillions of deficit and our USTs shunned so we got bigger fires to put out.
Biden needs to change a wet depends. Today he called for repealing Dodd-Frank and was told to “Go home and sleep it off”
The beatings will continue. The Biden, Nuland, Blinken trio launched a war against Russia without taking inventory. Can’t go to a fight with empty guns.
= = = =
NordStream (NS) culprits will be confirmed. The US deed can’t be covered-up forever. Just imagine Gazprom Russia owns 50.9 % of NS and is being denied.
Russia’s proposal to cooperate on Nord Stream’s invetigations rejected by Germany, Denmark, Sweden

UNITED NATIONS, March 14. /TASS/. German, Danish and Swedish authorities have rejected Russia’s proposals to cooperate in what concerns the investigation of the acts of sabotage on the Nord Stream gas pipelines, Russian Permanent Representative to the United Nations Vasily Nebenzya said in a letter to UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres and members of the UN Security Council and General Assembly.
The letter accompanies correspondence with Germany, Denmark and Sweden on the Nord Stream incidents probe that was released by Russia on Tuesday.
These countries claim that “the Russian authorities have been informed regarding the ongoing investigations’ on the act of sabotage in question. However, this cannot be further from the truth,” Nebenzya said in the letter.
“In reality, the authorities of Denmark, Germany and Sweden have rejected without any plausible explanation all proposals to cooperate in order to identify the perpetrators of the attacks on the pipelines as well as the circumstances around them put forward by the Russian Federation.”[.]

Watching for Olaf’s meeting Ceausescu.

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 14 2023 17:53 utc | 137

Damn those Russians, operating in an “environmentally unsound” manner. The nerve of those guys. Why, next they’ll be blowing up undersea gas pipelines.

Posted by: Intelligent Dasein | Mar 14 2023 17:53 utc | 138

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 14 2023 16:10 utc | 95
Your making the mistake of thinking Ukrainian losses all come from it’s bayonet strength. There will be plenty of rear-echelon casualties as well, especially those in artillery, logistics, AD and mechanical engineer units. It will be interesting to see the casualty statistics, especially the ratios of between rear-echelon and frontline. Also, with their tactic of shoring up fixed defences with filler troops the Ukrainians can sustain a 7:1 loss rate, given the initial low Russian casualties.
Posted by: Outraged | Mar 14 2023 12:12 utc | 19
Another leveraging of that combat experience is the Russian decision to assign previously wounded troops to training units; whereas NATO trainers, whilst highly competent, do not have the same experience of the conflict to adapt SOP’s. I watched UK trainers teaching Ukrainians trench clearing drills, involving the covering team keeping in close proximity with the assault element. Textbook stuff, but a recipe for losing the section to an armed drone.
As for the psychological effects of artillery, contrary to some ignorant commentators, Russia fires high intensity barrages, not due to accuracy issues, but because a major component of their effectiveness is psychological. British post-war research showed bangs per minute was more effective than actual shell weight, in relation to the neutralising capabilities of a barrage against fortified positions. This effect would, it was found, manifest itself in debilitating long-term effects, significantly reducing the combat effectiveness of those affected. The West now focuses on artillery causing material damage, the Russians have not forgotten it’s ability to also damage minds.

Posted by: Milites | Mar 14 2023 17:54 utc | 139

Posted by: b | Mar 14 2023 17:03 utc | 114
That was the Vasya Tsymbal trick, the “kitten was f*ckd”, so much for golden rain with hookers in Moscow, ask the Orange man.
Rozhin just posted the story of Vasya Tsymbal, machine translation will do.
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/80445

Posted by: Paco | Mar 14 2023 17:54 utc | 140

Reckon the Russkies will just claim they identified it as a Spy Balloon & followed US accepted protocol.
@ Chris | Mar 14 2023 17:42 utc | 130
LOL 🙂

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 14 2023 17:54 utc | 141

Chris @ 130

I’m gonna put on my concern troll hat and ask, why are US drones allowed to operate anywhere in the Black Sea? Shoot, shoot, shoot ’em down.

Pure speculation on my part, there’s a tacit agreement (while it lasts) to maintain the military status quo in the Black Sea, that RF doesn’t mess with USA air surveillance and USA won’t sink the Black Sea fleet which to be frank is a bunch of ducks in a pond. Given the heavy consequences of an escalation, Sigonella getting Kinzhaled for starters, what you have is a Mexican standoff in the Black Sea (again, while it lasts).
My 100% uninformed, wild guess speculation is that the Moskva pushed that tacit agreement with its EW capability, maybe tried to blind a Global Hawk or an AWAC and the USA called them on it. It would explain Russia making sure any info around the event went to the bottom of the sea along with the ship.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Mar 14 2023 17:57 utc | 142

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 14 2023 17:54 utc | 142
They didn’t have to use a 400K$ missile, a few gallons of fuel did the trick.

Posted by: Paco | Mar 14 2023 18:00 utc | 143

@ Paco | Mar 14 2023 17:54 utc | 141
Thank you kindly. Cheers.
Translated:

Since the U.S. accused a Russian fighter pilot of leaking kerosene to an American drone in the air, it is hard not to recall the story of Vasily Tsymbal.
Rain of stinky kerosene…
Vasya Tsymbal was a graduate of the Armavir Aviation School and, like all the guys from there, was famous for his ability to accurately perform the assigned combat tasks, though… Not quite standard and, I would even say, very unorthodox approaches. His favorite trick was the tricks with the fuel.
Another such stunt just happened in the Far East, when one of the Japanese patrol boats (with a couple of helicopters on it – a kind of unofficial aircraft carrier) crossed the border between neutral waters and Soviet territory. Unfortunately for the Japanese, Vasya Tsymbal was in the sky, and he quickly figured out what to do. Having made a couple of low-altitude turns over the ship, he made sure that it was not going to change its course and decided to try and frighten the uninvited guests. Ascending to a higher altitude, he turned and began to dive at the Japanese. The Japanese were frightened – the provocation went too far, and no one knew whether the Soviet pilot was ordered to attack.
In the end Tsymbal flew at cruising speed 5-6 meters above the deck and literally blew one of the helicopters into the water, and then, apparently in a wave of excitement, said to the airwaves in a short but succinct voice: “Fuck the kitty!” The Japanese, hearing one of the most expressive expressions of Russian swear words, turned the ship 180 degrees and gave full speed. But that was not enough for the show-off Vasya. While the Japanese ship was in Soviet waters, Vasya decided to practice his favorite trick. Flying over the cuckoo’s nest of unhappy provocateurs, Tsymbal turned on the fuel drain and showered kerosene rain on the military of the Land of the Rising Sun. The descendants of the samurai could not stand such disgrace and in droves ran to make hara-kiri to complain to their superiors.
Almost immediately after Vasya’s return to the base, they call him to the carpet (the base heard everything too) and, upon learning the details, they breathe a sigh of relief – thank God, no one was killed – and send him to the other end of the country, so that, if anything happens, they can say that “the pilot is not ours” and “he left for Murmansk two weeks ago”.
Once in the north, Vasiliy Tsymbal did not change his habits. In September ’87, however, it was always turbulent near the Kola Peninsula – American and Norwegian NATO pilots were flying quite often, several times a day entering Soviet airspace, and aircraft carriers, from which these planes were taking off, were plowing through the Barents Sea. When Vasya ran to his faithful Su-27 for the seventh time in 24 hours, putting on his helmet on the way… Probably he wanted very much to use lethal fire and nuclear missiles to be sure.
But no appropriate orders were given, and Tsymbal was left with only his good old trick. After coaxing his comrade, he joined him in making the Americans rain stinking kerosene. Strange as it may seem, it helped a lot – the Yankees began to appear in the region considerably less. And there were no repercussions for Basil.
(c) by Timothy Berdikin

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 14 2023 18:00 utc | 144

Interesting the “bumping” didn’t bring down the Russian jet, a whole new game if the Russians have a technique to stop the MQ-9
Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Mar 14 2023 17:19 utc | 121
On the basis that V-1 missiles directed at London were tipped off their flight path by wings of Hawker Hurricanes and Supermarine Spitfires I am not surprised an Su-27 could topple an MQ-9 since both V-1 and MQ-9 each weigh around 2 tonnes.

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 14 2023 18:00 utc | 145

Look like Russia just dumped a U.S. MQ-9 drone.
Posted by: b | Mar 14 2023 17:03 utc | 114
Do we know it was Russia? Maybe it was a “pro-russian group”.

Posted by: Vikichka | Mar 14 2023 18:05 utc | 146

Oh boy, I’ve been hearing about cauldrons for a whole year now. When you boys gonna actually have one snap and not just keep edging me with a cauldron that is always 2 weeks away?
Posted by: Lol | Mar 14 2023 13:22 utc | 36
######################
I’ve heard that many cuckolds enjoy being edged.
You’re welcome. 🙂

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Mar 14 2023 18:09 utc | 147

Longtime barfly being quiet in the back of the bar. . .this is my first buzz around the room:
FROM GATEWAY PUNDIT:
U.S. European Command issued a statement Tuesday evening (local time) about an incident involving two Russian SU-27 aircraft harassing and attacking a unmanned U.S. MQ-9 Reaper drone over the Black Sea Tuesday morning. The Russians dumped fuel on the drone, flew in front of it and eventually collided with it, breaking a propeller and forcing U.S. controllers to crash the drone down into the sea. The incident is the first reported clash between the U.S. and Russian militaries in the Ukraine war.

Posted by: MajorMike | Mar 14 2023 18:11 utc | 148

Re the drone, in WWII RAF pilots would respond in a similar manner to Nazi V1 buzz-bombs, tipping them with a wing so they crashed. From Wikipedia:

Early attempts to intercept and destroy V-1s often failed, but improved techniques soon emerged. These included using the airflow over an interceptor’s wing to raise one wing of the V-1, by sliding the wingtip to within 6 in (15 cm) of the lower surface of the V-1’s wing. If properly executed, this manoeuvre would tip the V-1’s wing up, over-riding the gyro and sending the V-1 into an out-of-control dive. At least sixteen V-1s were destroyed this way (the first by a P-51 piloted by Major R. E. Turner of 356th Fighter Squadron on 18 June)

I expect the current ones have more sophisticated controls so actual physical damage might be required, but a bit of chaff into the jet engine might suffice.

Posted by: Billb | Mar 14 2023 18:12 utc | 149

The RF has plenty of fuel to drop–was the US out of solar panels to drop on the SU-27s?

Posted by: MajorMike | Mar 14 2023 18:14 utc | 150

You know, with all those unmanned drones flying around an accident was just a matter of time, thank God no humans were injured, hopefully no fish either. Fender bender, they happen. Opps!
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Mar 14 2023 18:14 utc | 151

@b | Mar 14 2023 17:03 utc | 114

Russian Su-27s ” dumped fuel on and flew in front of the MQ-9.”

All the Su-27s had to do was to **ss on it to bring it down.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 18:15 utc | 152

Put that SVB thing on my (I mean the people’s) tab. Mark it “For valuable services rendered.”
Overheard —
‘White House, FDIC, Treasury bail out its tech oligarchs who censor information and promote the White House anti-human, Malthusian agenda.’

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Mar 14 2023 18:15 utc | 153

Outraged @145–
Thanks for the translation. I still find it odd that a pilot can dump fuel in that manner, although now that I think about it, I do recall commercial jets being able to dump fuel in preparation for potential crash landings.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 14 2023 18:17 utc | 154

Must be tiresome having these US drones spying over Crimea and logging Russian movements………was the fuel deposit so it would ignite once the Sukhoi let its afterburners fry the Reaper ?

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 14 2023 18:18 utc | 155

This is all Victoria Nuland’s fault. Why, oh why, did she hold back on her tons of cookie batter?
Posted by: metamars | Mar 14 2023 12:44 utc | 26
You’re joking, right? Obviously, she ate all her tons of cookie batter. A moment on her lips, forever on her hips

Posted by: Mary | Mar 14 2023 18:19 utc | 156

Ukraine’s behavior in this war reminds me of Japan’s in WWII. Japan’s military strategy against the US was to try to get the US Navy to engage in a”decisive battle” that, after the U.S. lost, would result in peace negotiations allowing Japan to keep all that it conquered. Without a decisive battle, Japan knew it was doomed to lose as the US had a larger navy to start that would only get larger over time.
It was ridiculous because no single battle with the US would be decisive. The US, if it lost what Japan believed was a decisive battle, could create new fleets of ships and continue the war while Japan could not.
Ukraine now seems to be trying to create a decisive battle where it will defeat Russia and thus end the war. That isn’t going to happen. Russia, same as the U.S. in WWII in the Pacific, has a larger military force that will only get larger over time while Ukraine’s shrinks. Like Japan, they were doomed to lose once the war started because their much larger opponent has the ability to increase its fighting capacity while fighting the war. Looking for the decisive battle is a fool’s errand.

Posted by: TimmyB | Mar 14 2023 18:20 utc | 157

was the fuel deposit so it would ignite once the Sukhoi let its afterburners fry the Reaper ?
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 14 2023 18:18 utc | 156
Its probably bad for the MQs sensors to dump fuel on them.

Posted by: Vikichka | Mar 14 2023 18:22 utc | 158

They are not starting to ‘acknowledge reality’. They are winding down the Ukraine project because they milked it for the profit of defense corporations enough, there is no way that its sustainable after this point and they have to wrap it up to move on to the Taiwan War…

Posted by: Dodrey Dougherton | Mar 14 2023 18:23 utc | 159

From the original post:

The quality of Ukraine’s military force, once considered a substantial advantage over Russia, has been degraded by a year of casualties that have taken many of the most experienced fighters off the battlefield, leading some Ukrainian officials to question Kyiv’s readiness to mount a much-anticipated spring offensive.

Okay, I’ll bite. Why has the quality of Russia’s military force not been similarly degraded over the last year?
I guess the management at the Washington Post doesn’t expect its readership to be capable of formulating such basic questions. Maybe they’re right: a person having that capability seems unlikely to be a devoted reader of that rag.

Posted by: David Levin | Mar 14 2023 18:24 utc | 160

So what’s international waters anyways? Is it like freedom of navigation in the south China sea? No word on what russia says, but what if it was in Crimean waters?

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 14 2023 18:24 utc | 161

Text Washington will not get what it wants. The bear is awake and he won’t go back to sleep until he has taken down the whole post-WW2 architecture of NATO, the EU, and IMF (dollar supremacy). #64
This is very plausible scenario. Chances are that the potential economic collapse of the West will dictate the tempo and outcome of the SMO. There will be no more interest rate hikes which means speedy takeoff of inflation and continuous drop of value of dollar. All of this can happen much sooner than many think.

Posted by: Milos | Mar 14 2023 18:25 utc | 162

MajorMike @149–
The incident is the first reported clash between the U.S. and Russian militaries in the Ukraine war. [My Emphasis]
How are we to classify attacks by US provided weapons and ammo on Russian troops and civilians? Terrorist attacks?

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 14 2023 18:26 utc | 163

NEWS: An American drone has been disabled over the Black Sea by two Russian jets. The pilots dropped fuel on the intruder and then “flipped” its wings to disrupt its path. The drone fell into the sea.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Mar 14 2023 18:28 utc | 164

Occurs to me regarding the drone, it’s the aerial equivalent of a military ship ramming another, a non attack attack, a technicality to get something achieved while avoiding using weapons and the ensuing escalation. Problem is it only works once or twice. The USA will probably just send three times as many drones. The RF would understand that, so, the Mexican stand off I mentioned above might be coming to an end, on the part of the RF, which means Russia is feeling confident in the Black Sea, which means all around with the SMO.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Mar 14 2023 18:29 utc | 165

The NYT piece also failed to mention the thousands of untrained women deployed to the front line including under 18’s y.o. ;literally children!!

Posted by: AI | Mar 14 2023 18:30 utc | 166

Cost:
SU-27 ~$30m, Max takeoff weight ~18 tons
MQ-9 ~$20-30m depending on how outfitted. Max loaded weight 5 tons.
Rear propeller so a dip of a wing tip at the appropriate time would do the trick. I wonder who recovered the wreckage (if anybody).
Next lvl escalation: RADAR lock on manned surveillance flights or even a satellite ‘accident’.
Perhaps, if the bunker attack with kinzal is true, there is a broader change in the works with respect to NATO.

Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 14 2023 18:33 utc | 167

Rozhin is going at it with humor, here a very well known celebrity holding a poster that reads -since it’s a graffic and wont be able to be translated-
how dare you shoot down American drones in a non-ecological way?¡
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/80448

Posted by: Paco | Mar 14 2023 18:34 utc | 168

I am wondering about the rumors regarding the hypersonic Kinzahls the other day, one supposedly hitting an underground bunker with NATO officers. However, it was said 6 Kinzahls were launched. We have not heard much if anything about other targets hit by these missiles. Perhaps they were queuing up to hit the same, deep underground bunker, one after the other?

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 18:35 utc | 169

@ MajorMike | Mar 14 2023 18:11 utc | 149
Welcome aboard. What’s yer poison ?
@ karlof1 | Mar 14 2023 18:17 utc | 155
My pleasure. Don’t know what all the fuss is about. It’s just an economy sized model airplane, send ’em a voucher for a kit from Amazon, with a sorry not sorry, expression of regret note.
@ karlof1 | Mar 14 2023 18:26 utc | 164
True. Nordstream ?
@ TimmyB | Mar 14 2023 18:20 utc | 158
Valid analogy. Cheers.
@ David Levin | Mar 14 2023 18:24 utc | 161
Indeed.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 14 2023 18:35 utc | 170

Well at the risk of being accused of being a “concern troll” I’d make the point that despite its losses the UAF is still a very large and [in parts] a seasoned and experienced army. It has substantial reserves [its best troops] and fortified defences in depth. Powerful friends in NATO continue to support Ukraine with weapons, supplies, aid and money – not to mention ISR.
All I am saying is that despite losses and shortages, the UAF is still a powerful force. There is a bunch of fighting and dying to come before this is over.

Posted by: marcjf | Mar 14 2023 18:36 utc | 171

“How are we to classify attacks by US provided weapons and ammo on Russian troops and civilians? Terrorist attacks?
Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 14 2023 18:26 utc | 164”
Exactly so, not to mention that the surveillance and targeting the USSA provides surely makes them a full participant in this war and their AWACs etc. are all fair targets. It would be a bold move to bring them down and not necessary under present conditions.

Posted by: jr | Mar 14 2023 18:38 utc | 172

Now headlines are about the encounter so the bank runs have been displaced, a good respite for only 30 million bucks, not bad.

Posted by: Paco | Mar 14 2023 18:39 utc | 173

The turboprop engine of an MQ-9 drone will likely overspeed, given extra fuel via the air intake. This may ruin the engine and force its handlers to down it – even without physical contact with another airplane.
Leakage of lubricating oil (i.e. extra fuel) into passenger airplane jet engines have caused fatal incidents.

Posted by: Hans Konrad Johnsen | Mar 14 2023 18:40 utc | 174

There is a bunch of fighting and dying to come before this is over.
Posted by: marcjf | Mar 14 2023 18:36 utc | 172

Yes. The humiliation will have to be complete in order to dissuade sore losers.

Posted by: too scents | Mar 14 2023 18:41 utc | 175

@ LightYearsFromHome | Mar 14 2023 18:29 utc | 166
Russkies always been confident in the Black Sea. No US response … badly damaged Cruiser (TLA WikiPedia).

The Black Sea bumping incident of 12 February 1988 occurred when American cruiser USS Yorktown tried to exercise the right of innocent passage through Soviet territorial waters in the Black Sea during the Cold War. The cruiser was bumped by the Soviet frigate Bezzavetny with the intention of pushing Yorktown into international waters. This incident also involved the destroyer USS Caron, sailing in company with USS Yorktown and claiming the right of innocent passage, which was intentionally shouldered by a Soviet Mirka-class frigate SKR-6. Yorktown reported minor damage to its hull, with no holing or risk of flooding. Caron was undamaged.
At the time, the Soviet Union recognized the right of innocent passage for warships in its territorial waters solely in designated sea lanes. The United States believed that there was no legal basis for a coastal nation to limit warship transits to sea lanes only. Subsequently, the U.S. Department of State found that the Russian-language text of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, Article 22, paragraph 1 allowed the coastal state to regulate the right of innocent passage whenever necessary, while the English-language text did not.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 14 2023 18:45 utc | 176

Ria Novosti just posted this Russia MoD press release:
MINISTRY OF DEFENSE OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION: ON THE MORNING OF MARCH 14, AN AMERICAN UAV FLIGHT WAS RECORDED IN THE AREA OF THE CRIMEAN PENINSULA IN THE DIRECTION OF THE STATE BORDER OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION.
THE FLIGHT OF THE US DRONE WAS CARRIED OUT WITH THE TRANSPONDERS TURNED OFF IN VIOLATION OF THE BOUNDARIES OF THE AREA OF THE AIRSPACE USE REGIME.
: AFTER THE DISCOVERY OF THE AMERICAN DRONE, FIGHTERS FROM THE AIR DEFENSE FORCES ON DUTY WERE LIFTED INTO THE AIR.
AS A RESULT OF THE ABRUPT MANEUVERING, THE US DRONE WENT INTO AN UNCONTROLLED FLIGHT WITH A LOSS OF ALTITUDE AND COLLIDED WITH THE WATER SURFACE.
RUSSIAN FIGHTERS DID NOT USE AIRBORNE WEAPONS, DID NOT COME INTO CONTACT WITH THE US DRONE, RETURNED SAFELY TO THE AIRFIELD.
(Yandex translation)

Posted by: JB | Mar 14 2023 18:52 utc | 177

Russian MoD announcement:
IN THE MORNING OF MARCH 14, IN THE REGION OF THE CRIMEAN PENINSULA, THE FLIGHT OF A US UAV IN THE DIRECTION OF THE STATE BORDER OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION IS OBSERVED.
US UAV FLIGHT WAS CARRIED OUT WITH THE TRANSPONDERS OFF AND VIOLATION OF THE AIRSPACE USE REGIME AREA.
AFTER THE DETECTION OF THE AMERICAN UAV, FIGHTERS FROM THE AIR DEFENSE FORCES ON DUTY WAS LIFTED INTO THE AIR.
AS A RESULT OF A SHARP MANEUVERING, A US UAV WAS INTO UNCONTROLLED FLIGHT WITH LOSS OF ALTITUDE AND COLLATED WITH THE WATER SURFACE.
RUSSIAN FIGHTERS DID NOT USE ONBOARD WEAPONS, DID NOT CONTACT WITH THE US UAV, HAVE SAFELY RETURNED TO THE AIR FIGHTER.

Posted by: Flavius | Mar 14 2023 18:52 utc | 178

DeSantis has come out against the conflict in a written statement providing answers to foreign policy questions by calling it “a territorial dispute” between Ukraine and Russia with no clear objectives for continued (open ended) US involvement. The writing is on the wall.

Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 14 2023 18:52 utc | 179

USAF Reaper over Black Sea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWFqa5LdKa8
…so, how’s those “Сhinese spy baloon” precedents work for ya? 😀

Posted by: Arioch | Mar 14 2023 18:54 utc | 180

@Flavius | Mar 14 2023 18:52 utc | 179
“AS A RESULT OF THE ABRUPT MANEUVERING, THE US DRONE WENT INTO AN UNCONTROLLED FLIGHT WITH A LOSS OF ALTITUDE AND COLLIDED WITH THE WATER SURFACE.”
Precious.

Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 14 2023 18:55 utc | 181

(Yandex translation) Posted by: JB | Mar 14 2023 18:52 utc | 178
Oh pal, there’s official notice: https://t.me/mod_russia_en/6467
⚡️On 14 March 2023 in the morning, the Russian airspace control systems have detected an American MQ-9 unmanned aerial vehicle flying over the Black Sea near the Crimean Peninsula in the direction of the state border of the Russian Federation.
◽️ The drone flew with its transponders off, violating the boundaries of the temporary airspace regime established for the special military operation, communicated to all users of international airspace, and published in accordance with international standards.
◽️ Fighter jets of the air defence force on duty scrambled to identify the intruder. As a result of quick manoeuvring around 9.30 a.m. (Moscow time), the MQ-9 drone went into an unguided flight with a loss of altitude and collided with the water surface.
◽️ The Russian aircraft did not use on-board weapons, did not come into contact with the unmanned aerial vehicle, and returned safely to their home airfield.
🔹@mod_russia_en

Posted by: Arioch | Mar 14 2023 18:56 utc | 182

“There will be no weak points. Or maybe there will be some, intentionally left open by the Russians, to draw the Ukrainian ‘counterattack’ in to then entrap it in one big cauldron.”
This is exactly what the Soviet trained Iraqi officers did to Iran in the Iran-Iraq War.
Once it hit its static phase, the forces on each side were in rough balance.
Skirmishes and patrolling for most of the year, concurrent training and stockpiling ammunition for next years Spring offensive.
In Spring, Iran would launch its offensive. Iraq would give ground at a place of its choosing, Iranians would advance into the Iraqi’s killing zone, the Iraqis would pound them for weeks until they withdrew.
10s of thousands of Iranian dead, for no gain.
Repeated for years 85, 86, 87, 88.

Posted by: ltexpat | Mar 14 2023 18:59 utc | 183

Re: Reaper drone
1. International waters? Says whom? Has the US DoD ever told the truth about anything? Besides, that’s where they “brought it down” – how close to Russian airspace was it?
2. How many missiles did they expend costing how many millions of dollars and how many press conferences did they put up fretting about the balloon drone before skillfully bringing it down with cheap dogfighting maneuvers?
3. Why is the US flying drones in the Black Sea other than to map out Russian activities and spy on their communications to be relayed to the Ukro-Nazis? This is an act of warfare and every such step escalates the world closer to nukes.
And what is the USA going to do about it? Remember the USS Liberty!

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 19:03 utc | 184

Tell me more about whatever you’re talking about.
Posted by: Julian | Mar 14 2023 13:11 utc | 34
I think your projection of an offensive by August or September is very realistic.
That’s actually what I mean. Just because there has been a potential for an offensive since January doesn’t mean that one is going to occur in the next given week.
Certainly warm weather has and continues to play a big part in stalling any big action.
It seemed to take quite a long time for analysts to accept the idea that Russia can play this attrition game for quite a while.
What’s notable is that by late summer the Ukraine will be out of both shells and probably troops. So regarding your projection one has to wonder why they would move sooner? I’m in agreement.
Ukraine has a tough army and I’m not sure that they are as degraded as it appears. If there is a collapse anywhere then I am sure we will see Russia on the move at that time.
However in watching the daily reports, to my untrained eye, it seems Ukraine has a number of fallback positions when the Zelensky line fails.
Another big unknown is what sort of disaster Ukraine’s coming big counter offensive will be. As Scott Ritter said this sounds like their last gasp effort.
Lol. Having said all that there’s a huge part of my mind that expects this to happen in April.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Mar 14 2023 19:07 utc | 185

Lord, I implore to bring reason the chucklewits in the five sided nuthouse before they get us all murdered in WWIII.
Barring that, please take them all out before VVP has to unleash hellfire on earth.

Posted by: T.D. | Mar 14 2023 19:07 utc | 186

Remember the USS Liberty! #185
I also remember the USS Donald Duck. 😂

Posted by: Milos | Mar 14 2023 19:09 utc | 187

A reality check, in Western MSM? Maybe it’s a first step in warming up politicians for another round of mission creep: officially sending in NATO troops.

Posted by: xor | Mar 14 2023 19:11 utc | 188

The bear poked back

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 19:11 utc | 189

The Russian Defense Ministry issued a statement on the incident over the Black Sea:
– In the morning of March 14 this year, an American MQ-9 unmanned aerial vehicle was recorded flying over the Black Sea near the Crimean Peninsula in the direction of the State border of the Russian Federation;
– The flight of the unmanned aerial vehicle was carried out with the transponders turned off in violation of the borders of the area of the temporary regime for the use of airspace established for the purpose of conducting a special military operation, communicated to all users of international airspace and published in accordance with international standards;
– In order to identify the intruder, fighters from the air defense forces on duty were raised in the air. As a result of a sharp maneuver around 9.30 (Moscow time), the MQ-9 unmanned aerial vehicle went into an uncontrolled flight with a loss of altitude and collided with the water surface.;
– Russian fighters did not use onboard weapons, did not come into contact with an unmanned aerial vehicle, and returned safely to their home airfield.
===
According to the published recordings of radio conversations of Russian pilots there is reason to believe that the wreckage of the American MQ-9 Reaper UAV that fell into the Black Sea was picked up by the Russian military

Posted by: too scents | Mar 14 2023 19:14 utc | 190

Posted by: too scents | Mar 14 2023 19:14 utc | 191
Sounds like a panicked US pilot error.

Posted by: unimperator | Mar 14 2023 19:18 utc | 191

https://t.me/intelslava/45816
🇷🇺 🇺🇲 The forces of the Black Sea Fleet managed to find the crash site of the American MQ-9 Reaper drone and raise its wreckage from the water.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 19:19 utc | 192

@Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 19:03 utc | 185
“1. International waters? Says whom? Has the US DoD ever told the truth about anything? Besides, that’s where they “brought it down” – how close to Russian airspace was it?”
From the post by Arioch above:
“◽️ The drone flew with its transponders off, violating the boundaries of the temporary airspace regime established for the special military operation, communicated to all users of international airspace, and published in accordance with international standards.”

Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 14 2023 19:24 utc | 193

I don’t think there has been such a well publicized and anticipate spring/summer offensive since Kursk. I anticipate similar results for the NAZIs this time around too. Of course, the Ukies are not the Werhmact, so it could go much worse.

Posted by: Totila | Mar 14 2023 19:28 utc | 194

Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 14 2023 19:24 utc | 194
Yes, I’d seen that. With all due respect, however, what I was asking for was to quantify a distance – perhaps the closest it really got to the Russian/Crimean coastline or airspace. This could be done in one of a couple of ways, I guess. 1) Does anyone know what the “boundaries of temporary airspace” are in the SMO? or 2) Did the Russians issue any other more specific statements that we haven’t seen here at the bar yet?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 19:31 utc | 195

its not looking good, maybe NATO should intervene and end the war so lives can be saved.

Posted by: KFCBOY | Mar 14 2023 19:36 utc | 196

https://russian.rt.com/russia/news/1123323-minoborony-istrebiteli-rossiya
The Ministry of Defense reported an incident with an American MQ-9 drone over the Black Sea
The Russian Ministry of Defense said that Russian fighters did not use airborne weapons and did not come into contact with a US drone over the Black Sea.
The ministry said that on the morning of March 14, an American drone flight was recorded in the Crimean region in the direction of the Russian state border.
The flight was carried out with the transponders turned off in violation of the boundaries of the area of ​​​​the regime for the use of airspace, the Ministry of Defense noted.
In connection with the discovery of the drone, Russian fighter jets were raised into the air.
As a result of abrupt maneuvering, the U.S. drone went into uncontrolled flight with a loss of altitude and collided with the water surface, the ministry said in a statement.
On March 14, the US European Command announced that a Russian Su-27 hit the propeller of an American MQ-9 drone over the Black Sea, after which the drone fell into international waters.
The State Department announced its intention to hold contacts with Russia regarding the incident.

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Mar 14 2023 19:37 utc | 197

It was 60 kilometers southwest of Sevastopol
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/37294

🇷🇺🇺🇸✈️   It is reported that Russian sailors conducted a search operation and were able to recover some parts of the American MQ-9A drone that crashed at 9:28 a.m. today in the Black Sea. 
The fact that the Reaper itself got very close to Crimea and was 60 kilometers southwest of Sevastopol before it went down played in our favor, allowing our units to quietly retrieve the wreckage.
The Romanian helicopters attempted to fly to the crash site, but after flying a little over 100 km, they turned back to base. The G-550 and P-8A Poseidon aircraft flew to the coast of the Black Sea to monitor the situation.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 19:38 utc | 198

@Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 19:31 utc | 196
https://ops.group/blog/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Crimea-MAP-1024×827.png

Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 14 2023 19:39 utc | 199

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 14 2023 19:38 utc | 199
and
Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 14 2023 19:39 utc | 200
Thanks.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 14 2023 19:43 utc | 200