Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 11, 2023
Ukraine Is Lying About Casualty Ratios To Justify Holding Of Bakhmut

I follow and like Adam Tooze. His Chartbooks have always good materials. This recent one on the Silicon Valley Bank crash is also fine.

But I was somewhat disturbed by a recent tweet of his:

Adam Tooze @adam_tooze – 20:11 UTC · Mar 9, 2023

"Some experts worry Ukraine may be expending high-quality troops and equipment to kill mere Russian prison recruits as “cannon fodder”." Wow the language around the attritional battle at Bakhmut is getting grotesque! 7:1 ratio not good enough for you?

Link: ft.com Military briefing: Ukraine’s battle of diminishing returns for Bakhmut

Was that satire?

Moon of Alabama @MoonofA – 20:14 UTC Mar 9, 2023
Replying to @adam_tooze

7:1 to whose advantage?

He did not respond. But no, it was not satire. The linked Financial Times piece, reprinted in the Irish Times, actually quotes the Ukrainian national security chief Oleksiy Danilov as saying that the kill ratio was one to seven in Ukraine's favor.

The whole passage is nuts:

US and European officials estimate 200,000 Russian troops have been killed or seriously injured since February last year, and Ukraine about half that.

One western official said Russia had suffered “between 20,000 and 30,000 casualties over the past six months”, adding that most of them were mercenaries fighting for the Wagner private military company. Wagner’s operations have been largely focused on Bakhmut.

Nato officials estimate one Ukrainian had been killed or injured for every five Russians. Ukrainian national security chief Oleksiy Danilov last week estimated the ratio was “one to seven in our favour”.

This makes no sense. Had 200,000 Russian's be killed or seriously wounded in the war while 20,000 to 30,000 of those were killed or wounded in the past six month then the first six month of the war would have cost the Russian side 175,000 losses. That's more than the total numbers that were, until the recent mobilization, involved in the whole campaign. Those numbers must have been pulled from hot air.

Danilov casualty ratio is likewise obvious nonsense.

The Medical Department of the U.S. Army has a book about CAUSATIVE AGENTS OF BATTLE CASUALTIES IN WORLD WAR II. It is quoted here:

A report on the causative agents of battle casualties in World War II showed the comparative incidence of casualties from different types of weapons for several theaters. Compilers of the report believed that, while the more detailed subdivisions within their three major classes were open to question, their findings on the percent of total casualties due to small arms, artillery and mortars, and “miscellaneous” were reasonably accurate. From these they drew the following conclusions:

1. Small arms fire accounted for between 14 and 31 percent of the total casualties, depending upon the theater of action: The Mediterranean theater, 14.0 percent; the European theater, 23.4 percent; and the Pacific theaters, 30.7 percent.

2. Artillery and mortar fire together accounted for 65 percent of the total casualties in the European and Mediterranean theaters, 64.0 and 69.1, respectively. In the Pacific, they accounted for 47.0 percent.

The Encyclopedia Britannica likewise notes for World War I:

The greatest number of casualties and wounds were inflicted by artillery, followed by small arms, and then by poison gas.

When I was in officer school the number estimated for a big war in Europe was 75% of casualties due to artillery and aerial bombing.

Data from the European Commission, quoted by El Pais, says that Russia has a 10:1 advantage in artillery:

According to data from the European Commission to which EL PAÍS has had access, Russia fires between 40,000 and 50,000 artillery shells per day, compared to 5,000-6,000 Ukrainian forces expend. The Estonian government, which has been one of largest contributors to Kyiv’s war effort, puts the average use of artillery at between 20,000 and 60,000 Russian shells per day, and 2,000 to 7,000 Ukrainian rounds, according to a document sent to EU Member States by Tallinn, to which this newspaper has had access.

The Russian forces fire ten times the number of shells the Ukrainians can fire. In a modern war artillery fire causes 65+% of all casualties. It is thus impossible that Ukraine is losing less soldiers than the Russians.

The total ratio may well be 7 to 1 but it will certainly be to the advantage of the Russian forces side.

But minimizing the losses Ukraine has in Bakhmut seems to be a current propaganda scheme. A recent Newsweek piece quotes similar nonsense.

This propaganda seems to be designed to justify the Ukrainian decision to hang on to the city as long as possible:

Moscow's troops are on the cusp of taking the city in the eastern Donetsk region fought over for months, of which they reportedly control half. Amid rumors of a Ukrainian retreat Western officials suggested would do Kyiv no harm, President Volodymyr Zelensky insisted his troops would stay to prevent Russian forces from moving on "to other towns."

Already in January the U.S. was pressing the Ukraine to forget about Bakhmut and to move to a more mobile campaign:

In a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, deputy national security adviser Jon Finer, Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman, and Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Colin Kahl, said the US wants to help Ukraine shift away from the sort of pitched battle of attrition playing out in Bakhmut and focus instead on a style of mechanized maneuver warfare that uses rapid, unanticipated movements against Russia, sources familiar with their discussion said.

The hundreds of armored vehicles the US and European countries have provided to Ukraine in recent weeks, including 14 British tanks, are meant to help Ukraine make that shift, officials said.

In his latest summary Dima of the Military Summary Channel reported that the Ukrainian side will soon try a counterattack to cut the Russian ring around Bakhmut and to draw the Russian side into a decisive general battle.

I see, like Dima, little chance that such an attempt could be successful. The force ratio to achieve something like that is simply not there.

But if the Ukraine wants to do that, against 'western' advice, it needs some justifications. The lies about casualty ratios in favor of Ukraine seem designed to give those.

Comments

” Some people are still thinking Russia is failing by not advancing rapidly. Maybe they should revise basic warfare strategies, and try to remember the stated Russian aims of the SMO which is still a limited war.
Posted by: olaf22 | Mar 12 2023 3:50 utc | 178 ”
One can describe reality in any way they want, however, that doesn’t change the facts on the ground. This is a REAL war, a big were with nothing limited about it, hence thats why Russia is floundering.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Mar 12 2023 5:11 utc | 201

Latest Duran live stream…
Death of European Diplomacy – Former Austrian FM Karin Kreissl, Alexander Mercouris & Glenn Diesen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvVffXRTcns

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 5:15 utc | 202

Some videos for today.
Russian Tornado-G MLRS destroys Ukrainian observation post in Zaporozhye direction:
https://odysee.com/@SputnikInternational:c/TornadoGZaporozhye:b
Russian Lancet loitering munition destroys UK-made Stormer HVM defense system in special military op zone:
https://odysee.com/@SputnikInternational:c/LancetStormer:e
Russian Lancet drone destroys Kiev regime tank:
https://odysee.com/@Overthrown:6/video_2023-03-11_00-52-41:8
Russian self-propelled howitzers pound enemy position:
https://rutube.ru/video/6cbf752f2f6c41994c6758de28d1842c/

Posted by: Nate | Mar 12 2023 5:23 utc | 203

The number of casualties from artillery shelling that I have come across several times is 85%, as reported by hospital staff in Ukraine.

Posted by: Webej | Mar 12 2023 5:41 utc | 204

The Galizian regime considers only ‘Scandinavian’ Ukrainians (??), Kharaite Jews, and Crimean Tatars as worthy of citizenship and rights. It may be that these categories are the only casualties they admit as their own. It may also be that Russophone Ukrainians are counted as ‘Russians’.

Posted by: Browser | Mar 12 2023 5:42 utc | 205

I was reading smoothie 12 comments section
Someone posted an article by dimitry orlov
His article expounded on nuclear deterrence
Very well written and eye opening, the thrust of this article is that Russia during the past thirty years has been advancing nuclear energy&nuclear weapons technology
The west has been sitting idle.

Posted by: Dingo | Mar 12 2023 5:52 utc | 206

polarbear4 @196–
Thanks for your reply. I know quite a bit about what Russia’s doing: It’s doing what its president said it would do and doing it in the manner of its choosing. It’s to be a different type of Total War as it has to be. I’ve already written about the outcome provided nukes are or aren’t employed, the really key point being there won’t be any hill to stand atop as the hill itself will be leveled–that’s what the vision of the GSI and 4 Feb Joint Declaration are all about, and that’s what the RoW demands. When that will be so is unknown, but I do know it will be so.
unimperator @197–
Thanks for your reply. I’m confident that the social explosion will occur in Europe, but again the question is when as some is already ongoing, just not intensely enough. As many have said, next winter will be a much bigger test as the people will be poorer while living costs will be much higher. How this develops ought to be covered by a team of European barflies ideally in different nations since they’re there.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12 2023 6:21 utc | 207

In western Ukraine, the Russian hypersonic missile Kinzhal struck an 80-meter-deep bunker. The RF believes this bunker near Lvov was a NATO strategic command point used to control anti-aircraft systems
Likely see many more such attacks on command and control centers. Moscow has been warning for 16 months that NATO command and control centers are valid targets.
Question for Barflies : what would trigger Moscow to attack NATO command and control centers outside of The Ukraine ? for example, at what point is a NATO drone operator in Ramstein vulnerable ?

Posted by: Exile | Mar 12 2023 6:29 utc | 208

How this develops ought to be covered by a team of European barflies ideally in different nations since they’re there.
Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 12 2023 6:21 utc | 209
Europe is an US colony. And the politicians are all corrupt marionettes. This is basic agreement among common folks here.
Food prices are absurdly high, all while prices for other non-food stuff didn’t change much.

Posted by: Vikichka | Mar 12 2023 6:32 utc | 209

Posted by: Exile | Mar 12 2023 6:29 utc | 210
“Question for Barflies : what would trigger Moscow to attack NATO command and control centers outside of The Ukraine ?”
Any attempt at a no-fly zone or using airfields outside of Ukraine to attack Russian troops.
Or, of course, NATO directly entering the war.

Posted by: Haassaan | Mar 12 2023 6:37 utc | 210

@Surferket | Mar 11 2023 23:12 utc | 114

In western Ukraine, the Russian hypersonic missile Kinzhal struck an 80-meter-deep bunker. The RF believes this bunker near Lvov was a NATO strategic command point used to control anti-aircraft systems. It’s still early to confirm the information, but the RF assumes there were up to 300 personnel in the bunker, 40 of whom were high-ranking foreign specialists; hence, we can expect 40 body bags to be heading west in due course.

Was this scenario “confirmed” by the crazy and threatening B52 flight in the Baltic Sea and the Gulf of Finland, on direct course towards St. Petersburg, but turning hard right over Estonia in the last minute?

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2023 6:50 utc | 211

@threatening 214
sry to question – but did Kursk not in essence break the backbone of the German Army´s tank capabilities?
They never recovered from it.
(comparable to the wolf pack tactics by German Luftwaffe late in the war when they attacked Allied bomber formations with Dozens of Focke Wulfes inflicting heavy damage but loosing even more themselves unable to compensate for lost machinery and killed pilots.)

Posted by: AG | Mar 12 2023 7:10 utc | 212

Gilbert Doctorow feels the world hurtles to Doomsday. An essential part of his comment to my reaction reads:
“… you have to live a few months if not years longer than you, I and the rest of our compatriots here in this country and fellow citizens of the European Union are likely to live if the present war in and over Ukraine takes the course that Washington is preparing for us.
Stage one of the Ukraine war as scripted by the USA is to fight against Russia to the last Ukrainian. Stage two is to fight against Russia to the last European. In the past few weeks, the USA has delivered to Bremerhaven in Germany and to Gdansk in Poland vast quantities of military hardware that is not going to Kiev but is being prepared for the NATO-Russia war. A week ago, one of the US “Doomsday Planes” that coordinate action in a nuclear war came to Europe via Iceland. Smart observers noted this could be an exercise to prepare nuclear capabilities for the coming war.
Victoria Nuland remains the most important personality in the State Department, head and shoulders above her nominal boss, Blinken. This is the lady who famously, while planning the coup d’etat of February 2014 that overthrew Ukrainian President Yanukovich, was recorded as telling the then U.S. ambassador to Kiev “fuck the EU.” Well, my friend, that is exactly what she is cooking up today and we are in the soup,” see https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2023/03/11/strikes-and-more-strikes-in-belgium-and-france-all-to-no-purpose-while-the-world-hurtles-to-doomsday/#comments
In my reply I said I am less pessimistic. A Russian first strike is not in Moscow’s playbook. A US nuclear attack with will immediately be answered with hypersonics which the Americans fear. I said that hypersonic missiles appear to be outpacing nuclear weapons, and nuclear disarmament out of object, see https://geopolitiekincontext.wordpress.com/2023/03/06/will-hypersonic-missiles-make-nuclear-weapons-obsolete/

Posted by: Paul-Robert | Mar 12 2023 7:12 utc | 213

Clear summary of the situation in ONE WORD … JEFFREY SACHS
“NONSENSE”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZcASIWAYPo [10 mins]

Posted by: Don Firineach | Mar 12 2023 7:19 utc | 214

Speed adds kinetic energy for ground penetration, however the Kinzhal hypersonic missile is not a bunker buster as such:
The GBU-57A/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP) is a precision-guided, 30,000-pound (14,000 kg) “bunker buster” bomb.
Earlier article:
https://www.defenseworld.net/2022/03/21/russian-hypersonic-missile-incapacitated-underground-bunker-designed-to-store-nuclear-weapons.html

Posted by: Oui | Mar 12 2023 7:22 utc | 215

Posted by: Exile | Mar 12 2023 6:29 utc | 210
Is there another source for this?
In 2016 there was the story that RF busted an Aleppo bunker with western officers inside that were coordinating terrorists. The media cried “Aleppo children are not safe”.

Posted by: Vikichka | Mar 12 2023 7:22 utc | 216

@Julian | Mar 12 2023 2:19 utc | 161

At the current rate of progress the Donbas may be liberated by 2024, perhaps Kharkiv by 2025 – we are nowhere near the Polish border at present.

Predicting the future by linear extrapolation of the immediate past is not likely to succeed. This is a highly non-linear process, suddenly things change.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2023 7:22 utc | 217

Is it possible that the MSM in the West is as usual merely acting as a transcription service for the MIC? So when they speak foolishly, with patent absurdity, of a huge seven to one differential of Russian to Ukrainian casualties, is there a method to that madness?
I’m considering the following. If Ukraine is being said to be kicking so much Russian ass, then there’s no need for America to upend its economy in any way so as to service the Ukrainian military. All the expansion to their production lines for weapons is something that is politically expedient in and of itself, can be done in a normal time frame, and likely deemed useful in order to project strength versus China, and in the Middle East, even if that projection is mostly smoke and mirrors that is most effective within the sphere of domestic politics.
Ukraine is winning, Yay!
So there’s no need for any measures that might disturb the electorate, like giving Ukraine really long range missiles and the assistance to aim them, nor cluster munitions, nor F16s any time soon, nor American tanks, nor American boots on the ground.
Ukraine is winning, yay, and if one day its military starts suffering a collapse, “a little bit at a time, then all at once”, then that would have to be the fault of individuals in power in Ukraine, people who could be disavowed by America, and it could be sold as being the result of Fate. You can’t expect America to try to save you when it’s your fate to lose.
And you certainly can’t then expect powerful lobbies in America to take a back seat to Zelnskyy and Ukraine, not after they lost their war with Russia. Once people see Zelenskyy as a loser, aid to him will be seen as charity, and in America it’s said that charity begins at home. Very powerful lobby groups will be fighting over lines in the budget that can be measured in the millions of dollars, and it will be a zero sum game.
What politician will hold up only half a loaf of bread to their supporters, while holding up the other half for Zelenskyy? Once Ukraine is seen as unable to win against Russia, representatives of minority voters might openly comment on how white a nation Ukraine is, in contrast to other nations that need aid, and that their constituents are asking why they have to fund a country with so many Neo-Nazis, and which has a First Lady who shops in elite boutiques in Paris.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Mar 12 2023 7:30 utc | 218

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2023 7:22 utc | 220
I’d totally rather use the Black–Scholes model.

Posted by: Vikichka | Mar 12 2023 7:30 utc | 219

What is with this doomsday talk?
Empire is in check as commenter Lex wrote and, given its lack of human morals, if it could defeat Russia in a nuclear and/or biological war, it would have done so by now.
It is my understanding from what b and MoA commenters have shared that Russia has the ability to not only stop/intercept incoming empire nukes but their nuke delivery capability cannot be stoped by empire ABMs. If empire decides to try the nuke route, the US and UK/EU would be wiped out and maybe Occupied Palestine but nuclear fallout may be limited enough for human survival in the rest of the world after a period of nastiness.
I am glad to be 74 but hope that the species evolution that is coming will be worth the transition cost…..it is time for the jackboot of global private finance to be removed permanently from the social contract, IMO

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 12 2023 7:32 utc | 220

🇷🇺🇺🇦 By trial and error: how the West is preparing the AFU for the wrong type of war — Military Chronicle and Rybar’s analysis
In October, the head of the European diplomacy Josep Borrell said that by the end of March it is planned to train more than 11 thousand Ukrainian soldiers at the training grounds of NATO countries. Up to the end of 2023, this number may exceed 30 thousand people: the British have already trained 10 thousand people since June 2022; it is planned to train 15 more in other European countries.
The editorial staff of the Military Chronicle and the Rybar team looked into the subject and explained what is wrong with the training of the AFU according to NATO standards.
🔻The main problem
It is difficult to apply the acquired skills on the battlefield: numerous prisoners of war, trained in NATO countries, have repeatedly questioned the effectiveness of training according to Western methods. According to them, at best, the training was superficial and did not guarantee an advantage on the battlefield.
🔻 What’s wrong with the training?
Western nations have not participated in high-intensity conflict since the Vietnam War or since World War II. Instructors of various specialties have just participated in local operations. People are being trained along the lines of the wars in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan.
The experience of fighting against militant groups in the Middle East and Africa is barely applicable to the Ukrainian conflict. Infantry units are mostly trained not to fight in forests and fields, but to clear houses and residential areas.
🔻Trial-and-error method
The other side of the problem is the lack of real experience in live firing of various complexes. The NLAW, Panzerfaust 3, or Gepard anti-aircraft systems have been used in limited numbers only during exercises before the SMO began.
NATO instructors do not have the necessary experience and knowledge to properly use these weapons in combat. Now NATO is actively gaining the experience of Gepard for the new training program, but it will take years to implement it.
The AFU are quite capable of mastering the whole range of weapons under combat conditions – and in a much shorter time than at Western training ranges. But training is often conducted almost by trial and error.
🔻 And what about the training base?
For effective training of Ukrainian units in the West, there is not enough equipment, weapons and material base. The personnel is being taught to operate NLAWs or Javelins on special simulators: real ammunition is out of the question. Before the beginning of the SMO in the West such simulators were ordered exactly as many as it was necessary to train the regular number of cadets. At the moment, there are not enough such complexes for everyone.
The automatic rifle firing during training abroad often does not exceed two cartridges, and weapons for that are brought from the nearest units.
🔻 What does this imply?
Despite loud statements about the huge number of Ukrainian units trained to NATO standards, there are problems in the effectiveness of training. They are accumulating, because in the West they rely on training the maximum number of people in a short period of time. There is no point in talking about the quality of training in such conditions.
The training program for the AFU infantry units has already been cut to three, and in the case of the combined arms units to two.
Probably by Oct-Nov, the number of Ukrainian units trained according to NATO standards will really reach 30,000 men. But claiming to be trained according to NATO standards and commissioning fully combat-ready units that can turn the tide of war are different things.
After returning to the battlefield, soldiers and officers of the AFU face real conditions that are strikingly different from the theoretical ones.
The pattern of use does not change – “human resources” packed in a Western wrapper and costing much more, are used to plug the gaps and try to buy time in the future.

https://t.me/sitreports/5665

Posted by: Down South | Mar 12 2023 7:33 utc | 221

In response to an article by Rybar and the Military Chronicle about the military training of the Armed Forces of Ukraine by Western countries, we asked the front-line soldiers for their opinion on this issue.
▪️According to the estimates of the 8th artillery regiment (in the Kherson direction), the training of the Armed Forces of Ukraine by Western countries led to a combined effect: the Soviet school with separate NATO elements of the systems. All the same, you can’t remake a person in a short time.
At the same time, Western technologies still make themselves felt. In terms of the use of situational awareness systems (“Nettle”, “Delta”), of course, it is felt.
In communication systems on the air, everything is indicated by some keywords, not squares. That is, they do not give any reference to the terrain. It is not so with us.
The next element is lightning fast strikes in passenger cars.
It’s not that they are trained according to NATO standards. They are customized for Western communication and control systems. From this everything follows. Because they have a better communication system. For the enemy, almost any fighter (if there is a connection) can call for air support. We, on the other hand, need a special spotter with a specific radio station that operates on the aviation frequency.
▪️According to the 381st Artillery Regiment (operating on Marinka), the Armed Forces of Ukraine are trained in the West in the all of the same actions as our soldiers in Russia. As for the use of 155 mm artillery from afar: this is how they use it. It is clear that this needs to be learned: a Western tool. Although the intensity of the application has dropped very much, because they also have problems with ammunition.
As for the drop systems and kamikaze UAVs. This probably has nothing to do with NATO standards.
Regarding experience: that they have experience, mostly local, and so do we. They learn in battle.
⭐️Thus, the training system of the Armed Forces of Ukraine according to NATO standards is primarily focused on training enemy personnel in the use of Western weapons and equipment.
The main task of training is to achieve the principle of interoperability of the Armed Forces of Ukraine – the compatibility of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with other NATO units from any country of the Alliance through the use of unified communication systems and situational awareness systems.
This AFU was trained before the war. The main task is the ability to act as part of multinational (from different states) NATO formations.
This has previously been reported to HQ.
A couple of further comments:
First, to think that a training period measured in weeks is a game changer is ridiculous; it can only be a minimal training in the use of certain systems but not in “operational art”. By way of comparison, we can look at the training for Desert Storm in 1991. In that case the American and other coalition troops were already proficient in their weapons (tanks, comms, etc.) but still spent the better part of a year training together for the combined arms operation that was later implemented against the army of Saddam in Iraq. To think that AFU soldiers can learn to use new weapons within NATO style combined arms warfare operations is unrealistic.
Second, as Rybar has alluded to, NATO trainers have no experience (or doctrine really) for peer to peer land warfare without air supremacy. What should actually worry us is the day when AFU fighters with experience in this kind of war begin training NATO armies.

https://t.me/sitreports/5696

Posted by: Down South | Mar 12 2023 7:36 utc | 222

The battle for Artemovsk – the main thing for the past day (for the morning of 12.03)
According to so far unverified information, at night PMC “Wagner” entered the settlement. Orekhovo-Vasilevka and went to the outskirts of the settlement located a little northeast. Zaliznyanskoye. Thus, there is a clear vector of movement around Seversk and, and this is the most important thing, to break through the second and main line of defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (which was built since the summer) along the watershed between the Slavic-Kramatorsk and Bakhmut-Soledar agglomerations.
In fact, Orekhovo-Vasilevka is already a fortified area of this very line, and taking it under control is a very serious claim. Well, as I said a little higher, a new threat to Seversk.
Also yesterday, information came that parts of the Wagners physically entered the track from Artemovsk, through Khromovo to Chasov Yar.
In Artemovsk itself, a new liberation strategy is also already evident. Apparently, having realistically assessed the threat from the reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine deployed here, which are just waiting to hit the flank and rear of the strike groups closing ticks from the north and south, the command of the Wagner PMC abandoned this plan.
The “Musicians” continued their offensive in the center, and after their assault squads entered the AZOM plant from the north, another part of the attackers (the one that crossed the Bakhmutovka River yesterday) are trying to enter the southern parts of this enterprise and thus take the defenders into pincers. So far, the offensive here is developing successfully.
Well, also yesterday there were attacks by “musicians” from the south on a wide front from Chasovoy Yar to the southern outskirts of the city. There is a partial advance between Ivanovsky and the former Airplane stele.
And all this not only brought new threats to the enemy, but also seriously complicated an already bleak logistics situation for him.

https://t.me/geromanat/5594

Posted by: Down South | Mar 12 2023 7:38 utc | 223

Danilov is the Bagdad Bob of Ukraina. He graduated from the special school of advanced mathematics where they specialise in convoluted logic. He graduated with distinction

Posted by: Bagdad Bob of Ukrain | Mar 12 2023 7:38 utc | 224

Posted by: Exile | Mar 12 2023 6:29 utc | 210
“Question for Barflies : what would trigger Moscow to attack NATO command and control centers outside of The Ukraine ? for example, at what point is a NATO drone operator in Ramstein vulnerable ?
Posted by: Haassaan | Mar 12 2023 6:37 utc | 212
“Any attempt at a no-fly zone or using airfields outside of Ukraine to attack Russian troops. Or, of course, NATO directly entering the war.”
I’d agree with Haassaan’s response. I’d add that I think it would depend on the effectiveness of the NATO activity in terms of either or both: 1) causing excessive casualties to Russian forces or Russian civilians, or 2) materially slowing the Russian progress. These would roughly correspond to the size of the NATO activity.
I don’t think even supplying F-16s to Ukraine, given the improbability of their being able to use them effectively against Russian air defenses, would necessarily cause Russia to strike outside Ukraine, despite Russia’s warnings about that.
None of the weapons systems being supplied so far can have a significant difference on the battlefield, so those can be ignored. Western main battle tanks won’t fare any better than Ukrainian T-72s did. The other armored vehicles potentially supplied are not very relevant, either.
So this leaves missile systems. If NATO begins supplying missile systems in sufficient quantities to cause major troops losses or say, civilian losses in Crimea or elsewhere in Russia, then either those missile systems might be targeted before their entry into Ukraine – I find that unlikely since depending on the system, it might be easier to find them inside Ukraine – or the CISR assets the US is providing Ukraine to enable effective targeting might in turn be targeted by the Russians.
The other possibility I see is a major military move by Poland into western Ukraine under whatever guise. By “major”, I mean tens of thousands of Polish troops fully supported with hardware. A few thousand rebranded Polish troops called “mercenaries” won’t cause Russia to hit Poland. Even then, it would be just as easy to hit them in western Ukraine than hit them inside Poland itself.
I don’t believe Russia will strike outside Ukraine until something major happens with NATO and I don’t expect that to happen until Russia definitively defeats Ukraine in Donbass.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 7:41 utc | 225

Re: Posted by: Surferket | Mar 12 2023 3:09 utc | 167

You mean you actually saw ZERO forward movements by the Russians these past months?
I recommend you read Simplicius.
https://substack.com/profile/125744148-simplicius-the-thinker

“ZERO forward movements”– No, there have been some forward movements since May 2022 – Soledar, Severodonetsk come to mind – but not much else – net movements since May 2022 have been negative.
Until that changes – there is still a long way to go in this conflict – I expect until at least early 2025.
There could well be a great deal of political change in the world by then – US, UK, EU, Turkey, Germany etc.
I have read Simplicius thanks.

Posted by: Julian | Mar 12 2023 7:50 utc | 226

Posted by: Down South | Mar 12 2023 7:33 utc | 224
Posted by: Down South | Mar 12 2023 7:36 utc | 225
In other words, as Martyanov has been saying daily for years, the Ukrainians are being trained by people who “have never won shit in their lives” and “have no clue about real war.”
That pretty much sums it up. Combine those facts with the fact of the military balance between Russia and Ukraine (even including NATO weapons systems) and the conclusion is obvious, as I said in an earlier post: There is zero possibility of Ukraine winning this war, short of deployed nukes.
That is really all one needs to know about this war. Ukraine can’t win. It’s a physical impossibility. The only reason it’s still going on is because 1) Russia wants it to, 2) you can only kill so many people so fast (without using nukes), and 3) Russia didn’t want to flatten the country (initially, anyway.)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 7:52 utc | 227

Posted by: Surferket | Mar 12 2023 3:09 utc | 167
You have to understand that Julian has no clue what he’s talking about when he talks about “movement”. I think a lot of people here understand that the Russians have no need for “movement” as long as Ukraine keeps sending masses of soldiers to be annihilated.
Also, given the fortifications that Ukraine built over eight years, as I’ve said repeatedly, “movement” is not the right approach: attrition by artillery is.
The Russians will only “move” when there is no longer large number of Ukrainians in front of them (unless the Russians see a way to encircle them easily without risk to their flanks.)
It’s all common sense, really. Sad that so few concern trolls comprehend – or care to comprehend – this.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 7:57 utc | 228

The longer Ukranazistan tries to hold on to Artëmovsk the worse it haemorrhages itself and the better for Russia. Not fully taking Artëmovsk but keeping it almost encircled is working out excellently for the Russian side. Another month of this will probably break the backbone of the current iteration of the Ukranazi army.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Mar 12 2023 8:00 utc | 229

#216
99.9% no nuclear war.

Posted by: Dingo | Mar 12 2023 8:08 utc | 230

Paul-Robert #216

A US nuclear attack with will immediately be answered with hypersonics which the Americans fear. I said that hypersonic missiles appear to be outpacing nuclear weapons, and nuclear disarmament out of object, see https://geopolitiekincontext.wordpress.com/2023/03/06/will-hypersonic-missiles-make-nuclear-weapons-obsolete/

There is some merit in that new hypersonic reality. It certainly has confounded the USA escalation logic as they have no equivalent response. Whether that would stay their nuclear hand though is another matter. IMO if pressed the USA would just back off and try other belligerent tricks just as they are doing in Georgia right now.
Maybe the reports of hypersonics knocking out NATO deep bunkers yesterday will persist and repeat actions could bring the matter up front and painful for the USA to the extent that they think twice – maybe.
But I think USNATO have lost it already and will just push on, waist deep in the big muddy. It will take momentous confrontation to arrest the idiot’s full manic charge.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 12 2023 8:09 utc | 231

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Mar 12 2023 0:29 utc | 136
Good guess!
Yes, both Stalin and Khrushchev were liars when it suited them – the latter being untrustworthy in general. Khrushchev was Ukrainian by the way.
As to your source – seriously – you link to Radio Free Europe Radio Liberty?!?
They are no more reliable than the 2 characters above and definitely biased.
Seems the quality of trolls is deteriorating, like that of the UAF.
– just my €0.02

Posted by: Richard Head | Mar 12 2023 8:13 utc | 232

@fanto | Mar 12 2023 4:49 utc | 193

It is hard to comprehend the fear of Russia in Europe – other than in the immediate neighboring nations, and perhaps Norway and France, which both have history of collaboration ‘officially’, during the war, with the occupying force (Quisling and Vichy come to mind).

Norway was militarily attacked 9. April 1940 by the German Nazi army, using warships and planes. The German warship Blücher was sunk in the Oslo fjord (using ancient guns) and is still on the bottom there to this day. On the same morning, under the cover of the Nazi onslaught, Vidkun Quisling executed an illegal coup d’etat via national radio and pronounced himself “minister president”. His name was before, during and after the war a synonym of traitor. The actions of his “government” during WWII was not reflecting the will of the people, but wascriminal actions by a small group of Nazi collaborationists who came to power only as a direct result of the German military occupation.
A member of my family was arrested by the quislings in 1943, and remained in a concentration camp until liberation in May 1945.
Vidkun Quisling was convicted and executed for treason in October 1945.
The Soviet Red Army crossed the border into northern Norway (Finnmark) in late 1944 and liberated eastern Finnmark from The German Nazis, i.e. they pushed the Nazis away from the Russian border. The Red Army soon returned home. The people of Norway have always been grateful for this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_of_Finnmark
The Liberation of Finnmark was a military operation, lasting from 23 October 1944 until 26 April 1945, in which Soviet and Norwegian forces wrestled away control of Finnmark, the northernmost county of Norway, from Germany. It started with a Soviet offensive that liberated Kirkenes.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2023 8:16 utc | 233

@Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 5:15 utc | 204

Death of European Diplomacy – Former Austrian FM Karin Kreissl, Alexander Mercouris & Glenn Diesen
“>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvVffXRTcns

Strongly recommended (the name is Karin Kneissl).

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2023 8:22 utc | 234

The fortresses have been built over eight years and thermobarics /Kinzhals etc have not been able to kill those damn ukronazis in them .
The Russians fight by attrition , as it is the only way they can fight at present. To me it appears to be just luck ,not some 5D grand plan. It works only because NATO has not escalated in Ukraine, with big -arrow movements and tanks,yet etc
Russia wins if it can keep killing ukro /nato personnel coming to Artemovsk /Bakhmut just long enough for the Dollar Zone to fall or ZATO give up for easier pickings. Either way unless Russia takes over in a big way it will have a running sore of “Afghanistan Rebels “ forevermore. How long can Russia keep doing what it is currently doing? One year? Five ? Ten?

Posted by: Brother Ma | Mar 12 2023 8:22 utc | 235

@Exile | Mar 12 2023 6:29 utc | 210

Question for Barflies : what would trigger Moscow to attack NATO command and control centers outside of The Ukraine ? for example, at what point is a NATO drone operator in Ramstein vulnerable ?

This is what psychos like Nuland and Blinken is salivating for. It is not happening anytime soon.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2023 8:26 utc | 236

Russia:
18,480 KIA
44,500 WIA
323 POW
MIA ?
UKRAINE:
157,000 KIA
234,000 WIA
17,230 POW
Posted by: Outraged | Mar 11 2023 21:17 utc | 66
POW might be a good starting point, since a) numbers of exchanged POW are published regularly and b) President Selensky has been demanding “all-for-all” exchanges pretty much since the beginning of the war. Which he wouldn’t if Ukraine had more prisoners to trade than the fewdozens that get exchanged every could of weeks.
Ukraine does not seem to return or trade bodies either – it was Prigoshins groups recovering bodies of fallen Ukrainian soldiers making news the other day, whereas Ukraine doesn’t even seem to recover the bodies of their own.
If Ukraine has neither Russian prisoners nor bodies to show: what is their basis for counting Russian fatalities?

Posted by: Marvin | Mar 12 2023 8:30 utc | 237

Troll quantity is rising with lowered quality:
– Russia makes no progress
– Russia death counts match Western MSM at 1:7 or 1:10 ratio to Ukies.
– Russia’s Stavka is full of traitors, especially Surovikin.
– Russia is so weak and completely at NATO’s mercy to escalate which would wipe out the whole Russia army.
Invert of all their talking points for reality, I suppose. It gets repetitive though, paid concern trolls seriously need to invest in some new scripts.

Posted by: _newbie_ | Mar 12 2023 8:33 utc | 238

Posted by: Brother Ma | Mar 12 2023 8:22 utc | 238
Drivel.
The Russians have killed at least a hundred thousand Ukrainians in those fortifications.
“The only way they can fight” – what does that mean? I said the fortifications limit the Russian options to attrition by artillery.
“appears to be just luck”. More bullshit. The Russian General Staff does not do “luck.”
“works only because NATO has not escalated” – and why do you think that is? Because NATO can’t. NATO doesn’t have the forces to do it. Why do you think Poland has to buy tanks from South Korea? Get a clue.
“Afghanistan rebels” – bullshit. This is not Afghanistan.
Russia can keep this war going probably indefinitely, once their military production ramps up fully. The US and NATO can’t say the same.
This level of troll is just sad. Displaying one’s total ignorance doesn’t exactly give you a useful reputation on the Internet.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 8:34 utc | 239

@Biswapriya Purkayast | Mar 12 2023 8:00 utc | 232

The longer Ukranazistan tries to hold on to Artëmovsk the worse it haemorrhages itself and the better for Russia. Not fully taking Artëmovsk but keeping it almost encircled is working out excellently for the Russian side. Another month of this will probably break the backbone of the current iteration of the Ukranazi army.

I agree with this line of thinking. The almost encircled Artemovsk works like a black hole in which to sink the AFU.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2023 8:41 utc | 240

#224
Strategy for Ukrainian is exploding exponentially.
Two weeks ago they were kidnapping teenagers
And throwing them in the line of fire.

Posted by: Dingo | Mar 12 2023 8:49 utc | 241

“Bakhmut will fall, everything is on the brink, we are crushed. The AFU infantry is expendable,” a Ukrainian soldier told the truth about the massacre.
“We are crushed because we don’t feel the support of artillery,” the Ukrainian soldier added.
@Slavyangrad

Posted by: unimperator | Mar 12 2023 8:51 utc | 242

Weeb Union front update.
seven minutes. One hour ago.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 12 2023 8:54 utc | 243

Their “source” is of course a member of the Kiev regime, Oleksiy Danilov.
And once again the lie that Russia uses its troops as “cannon fodder”. It’s the “human wave” lie once again. And that Wagner would consist of prison recruits. While they have some recruited prisoners, of course the foundation in Wagner is ex-soldiers. Every mercenary army is based on ex-soldiers. Furthermore, Wagner is probably far more controlled by the Russian military than people are led to believe.
Meanwhile the Kiev side fills the trenches with untrained men in their sixties, to buy time.
Biden is a socialist, and socialists always lie. His side of the war is a socialist charade from start to finish.

Posted by: Hegar | Mar 12 2023 9:26 utc | 244

History moves very very slowly over a hundred years or more, but then very fast.
Maybe a matter of days, that’s where we are now.
Ignore that an we may have to wait another hundred years, to throw off the… American, English and Israeli shackles.
What we have now is a global opotunity, we must not squander it.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 12 2023 9:48 utc | 245

US made some nuclear bomber flight in Baltic Sea towards St. Peterburg within last few days.
Just add it to the list of evidence pile that Ukraine is (not) winning and/or it’s approaching the end, and maybe the Kinzhal impact on the Nato bunker could’ve have something to do with it as well. I think we are approaching the peak of dangerous moments.
Avdeevka is getting slowly encircled. Also around Bakhmut, despite the claimed Ukraine build-up, they are expanding NW, WSW of Bakhmut. The Russians expect a large Ukrainian counter-attack, leading them to abandon the attempt to completely encircle Bakhmut and rather expanding zone-of-control around it to have more maneuvering room in case of an attack.

Posted by: unimperator | Mar 12 2023 10:15 utc | 246

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 12 2023 8:54 utc | 248
An alternative narrative to current perceptions.
Whilst the Russians get everyone, including the Ukrainian General staff, focused on Wagner and Bakhmut, their real target is Avdiivka. NATO ISR precludes the usual Russian deception plans so they adapt operations based on misdirecting the ‘audience’. Wagner are a mercenary organisation, tasked with fixing the attention on Bakhmut, forcing the Ukrainians to match their bombastic rhetoric with military deployments to counter the creeping threat. With a larger-than life leader who, knowingly or unknowingly, played his role to perfection and a West desperate for signs of progress the task of fixing the audiences attention is easily achieved. Now, every time the Russians make a move elsewhere, the ‘audience’ pat themselves on the back, for not being fooled and go back to watching Bakhmut. The Russians probably broadcast fake casualty figures, on known compromised comm links, that are then happily ‘leaked’ to the press, forcing the Ukrainians to stay in the city.
Now the Russians can focus on their real objective, Avdiievka, safe in the knowledge their mis-direction has worked. Yes, Bakhmut is strategically important, but it only leads to another defensive line that has been reinforced; but Avdiievka’s capture threatens the entire Southern front and destroys any idea of a ‘Crimean Spring Offensive’. It also forces the artillery units still shelling the city of Donbas out of range, except for the long-range systems, which, if there is a breakthrough, will be probably be needed somewhere else.

Posted by: Milites | Mar 12 2023 10:24 utc | 247

I for one know exactly what I’m going to do first thing Monday morning – take out a few thousand from my bank account. Wife ditto. Not all, but enough to get by for a short while.

Posted by: Exile | Mar 12 2023 10:27 utc | 248

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 8:34 utc | 242
I am well aware of the Ukros being slaughtered, yet they keep coming. Whether they be Ukros or sheep-dipped Poles or Yanks makes no difference. They keep coming , and Ugledar and Bahmut have been fought over and won and lost many times during this SMO. The buildings that provide fire control still stand. Why ?
I said it is the only way the Russians can fight at present ,because Nato has superiority and supremacy in intelligence and satellites. It appears the Russians cannot make big- arrow moves in any fashion as they are seen from above and are likely killed with HIMARS etc .An example appears to be the Ugledar tank massacre.
Escalation is not just tanks . Who cares if Poland has tanks or not? In any case, Poland has plenty of tanks . Escalation also means NATO feet on the ground and airforce support. I don’t care if you call them ukro pilots or not. They will be NATO pilots.
I think you understood exactly what I meant by Afghanistan -rebels or do I need to be explicit and call them OUN rebels post -WWII?
You are a clever guy and I religiously always read your posts , and even agree with much of what you say. However, you have a bad habit of rubbishing anyone who has a contrary opinion to your own. No doubt that is due to you being here a long time , and attracting a group of old – timers who bear with you . Nevertheless, I don’t do group – think , and couldn’t care less about who you are, how long you have been here or who loves you. I just do evidence and can dispassionately argue the points for and against.
You calling me a troll doesn’t make me so , and the more you do so only shows me how stridently wed you are to your own beliefs. I can change with the evidence. Can you ? I notice you don’t talk about cauldrons anymore . When did that go down the memory hole?
Am happy to discuss things further in future, but in the mean time how about you get that not all pro – Russian supporters see things your way. We come in different stripes and colours you know.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Mar 12 2023 10:29 utc | 249

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 7:52 utc | 230 “The only reason it’s still going on is because 1) Russia wants it to”
There is some limit to the logic of that statement. Russia is taking casualties. They are getting shelled in parts of Russia that are not part of the newly annexed regions. The West continues to ship weapons into Ukraine. At this point Ukraine is more heavily armed than 2022. They want that to continue to happen?
The West has been stepping up the production of artillery shells and other things. Given the relative sized of the Russian versus Western economics at some point this moves out of Russia’s favor. If you watch Russian media they are already concerned about this. Even more concerned than most of those here.
Posted by: Bill Smith | March 12, 2023 at 10:35

Posted by: Bill Smith | Mar 12 2023 10:38 utc | 250

@ Bill Smith | Mar 12 2023 10:38 utc | 257

Nine women cannot produce a baby in one month. Where the conflict’s production/consumption train is serialized the rate of consumption exceeds the rate of production. Many times by an order of magnitude or more.

Posted by: too scents | Mar 12 2023 10:46 utc | 251

Deplorable Commissar | Mar 12 2023 5:11 utc | 203
‘This is a REAL war, a big were with nothing limited about it’ .
Well I differ in opinion on this. A ‘real’ war is one where both sides put all their resources into war. The SMO can be defined as limited because this has not happened. It was a real war for Ukraine/KIev in feb 2022 as their own resources were used up quickly and they were reliant on NATO arms flown in previously, but it is not a full war for NATO or Russia, both of which have other fish to fry.
‘Russia is floundering’?
Russia has been under sanctions since 1940s, and has a very small military budget v NATO, it’s doing ok. It dumped a load of obsolete Soviet scrap, has used Ukraine as a missile sales test field showpiece and now appears to be putting moderate effort in to get maximal effect.

Posted by: olaf22 | Mar 12 2023 10:54 utc | 252

Russian News channel Vesti features two articles on the T-90M tank, how successfully it operates on the battlefield.
https://www.vesti.ru/article/3244509
Why is the T-90M better than NATO technology
The Russian T-90M tank surpasses NATO models of armored vehicles in terms of survivability, camouflage and ease of movement and firing. New equipment allows you to inflict maximum damage on the enemy, while at the same time saving the life of the crew.
As one of the tankers with the call sign “Azer” told RIA Novosti , the T-90M can withstand both an anti-tank guided missile and an armor-piercing projectile.
“Yes, this car, I will even say the best,” the soldier said.
One of the systems, Azer shared, detects an enemy who aims a weapon at a tank, and also helps the crew change position by interfering. According to the tanker, she had already once rescued the crew by knocking down the guidance of an enemy missile flying at the tank.
A special camouflage complex reduces the thermal visibility of an armored vehicle.
“There is no such thing in NATO technology. We always see them, they don’t fire us,” Azer said.
The tank commander and gunner, using separate sights, can give target designation to each other, as well as observe the same target together.
An advantage is also given by the automatic loader of the gun. He works more reliably than a person who can be concussed or wounded during the battle.
https://www.vesti.ru/article/3244516
“Breakthrough” destroyed the Ukrainian observation post
The Armed Forces of Ukraine have lost another observation post in the zone of combat contact – the object, the coordinates of which were obtained thanks to intelligence, was destroyed by a blow from the Russian T-90M “Breakthrough” tank.
As the commander of a tank company told RIA Novosti , after receiving the data, the tankers advanced to the position and covered the enemy’s observation post with fire. The military stressed that during the operation, one of the main tasks was to save the lives of personnel, the crew of the tank.
According to a member of the tank crew with the call sign “Azer”, the combat vehicle can withstand any arrivals, including ATGMs and armor-piercing shells. The tank’s homing system allows you to detect the enemy at the moment when he aims the gun, and put a hindrance so that the tank has time to change position
In addition, the T-90M has a camouflage system that reduces the thermal visibility of the vehicle, and two sights – for the commander and for the gunner.

Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Mar 12 2023 11:03 utc | 253

There are decades when nothing happens
There are weeks when decades happen
Vladimir Lenin

Posted by: Dingo | Mar 12 2023 11:17 utc | 254

@ threatening 214
USUKIS intelligence , like the octopus, runs on a different biology to humanity.
USUKIS recruits psychopaths from around the
world to lie for Empire. Some in corporations, some in media, others in psyops and others in the military.
The purpose of the lying is not the misleading content , but the psychological disturbance that lying causes most human beings.
It looks so far as though Prigozhin is acting as a Western style bad cop liar, to Russian and Chechen military and Russian and Chinese Political good Cops.
Since the entire Neo nazi Ukrainian USUKIS operation is a psyops, maybe Russia needs to fight fire with fire and out-psyop the addicted psyoppers of Nato.
Of one thing we can be absolutely certain, that broadcasting internal divisions about the Russian SMO is not Putin’s style, and should be taken with the necessary salt that Putin is trained by KGB and martial arts. China has replicated every piece of Western technology and is now way ahead technologically speaking. Russia has always been way ahead in Rocket technology.
USUKIS psychopathy is plain dumb by comparison.
The solution to the bad cop psychological warfare from either side in this war is to know that it is targeted at the enemy, not you. If you want to understand it you must first project your mind into the brainwashed Ukronazi mind,( impossible ) and then see what effect it has on you.
Yes, divisions in the enemy might give me hope that Ukraine might win, encouraging me to stay fighting and give myself to Russia’s meat grinder. Elementary Warlock Bones logic, my dear Whatsup.

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 12 2023 11:33 utc | 255

@ threatening 262
You will have seen the yellow fluffy nests where parasitic wasps inject their own eggs into other larvae. zionism is a yellow fluffy nest where anti-religious, politically-minded criminals have injected their eggs into Judaism. Please note that those same parasitic wasps have also injected their eggs into Islam , creating un-religious Islamist head-chopping USUKIS proxies against their own USUKIS dictators and the Muslim.populations. Also injected into Christianity, creating Nazi Valhalla pagan Ukranians as proxies to use against the Ukrainians and Slavs of Russia.
The Jews and Ukrainians are both the victims of a ruthless parasitic wasp called zionism, currently living in Washington.

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 12 2023 11:50 utc | 256

@ 265
Washington has itself been parasitised by Zionism. Who the fuck are Blinken Nuland , Wolfovitz or Sunak , Scholz , Macron ?
All in countries parasited by zionist wasps, to create baby parasitic wasps in the larvae of Western Civilisation.

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 12 2023 11:58 utc | 257

Browser @ 207
Yes, the Vikings sailed to the Black Sea and north on the rivers. There is definitely Scandinavian blood to be found in Ukraine. Not much. Ukraine had multiple periods of depopulation. There are dynastic families originating from Vikings, they mostly went to Kievan Rus and then further north. Most who show what look like Nordic features are descended from German farmers encouraged to settle by the tsars in late 18th and 19th century. The Banderas make a huge production out of Scandinavian blood. Reality has nothing to do with it.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 12 2023 11:59 utc | 258

Posted by: Milites | Mar 12 2023 10:24 utc | 254
I’ve seen that theory promoted before. I suspect it may well be correct.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 11:59 utc | 259

Posted by: Bill Smith | Mar 12 2023 10:38 utc | 257
“At this point Ukraine is more heavily armed than 2022.”
Bullshit.
“The West has been stepping up the production of artillery shells”
And it will take years before they can produce enough to replace Ukrainian losses, as has been established by several people including Western analysts.
Take your bullshit assertions down the road, concern troll. I don’t give a shit.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 12:03 utc | 260

@ Dingo | Mar 12 2023 11:17 utc | 263
Could not be more true … feel it, in my very bones. Was too young to understand/comprehend Suez ’56 … as said before, we’re living thru events of greater significance than ’90/’91. Terra trembles.
Peace
@ Brother Ma | Mar 12 2023 10:29 utc | 256
BS. Such faux concern from an openly self-declared pro-Russian supporter (Open credibility appeal = Abysmal trade-craft). How many actual supposed ‘Ugledar massacres’ has the AFU suffered since Feb24’22 ? Per week ? Credible corroborated evidence of the scale & scope, and most importantly Operational or Strategic SIGNIFICANCE of the supposed ‘Ugledar massacre’, that a certain category of poster expounds upon as a regular reaching, desperate talking point, endlessly ?

Ugledar tank massacre.
In any case, Poland has plenty of tanks.
Escalation also means NATO feet on the ground and airforce support. … They will be NATO pilots.
… couldn’t care less about who you are, how long you have been here or who loves you. I just do evidence and can dispassionately argue the points for and against.

The only thing your post, at this late stage, demonstrates is woeful ignorance and lack of understanding, some extended targeted ad-hominem, individual & collective, along with mere assertions forcefully espoused as FACTS, minimal competency/insight & woeful non-demonstration of knowledge. Different ‘style’ of delivery is all. Contrary to your assertions otherwise, you do not demonstrate evidence of reading the posts, links, sources & references provided at MoA. Dispassionately argue for & against ? LOL.
Is ‘Bill S’ in the cold, dim, dark cubicle beside you, in the basement boiler-room ?
Pathetic.
@ Bill Smith | Mar 12 2023 10:38 utc | 257

At this point Ukraine is more heavily armed than 2022.

The West has been stepping up the production of artillery shells and other things. Given the relative sized of the Russian versus Western economics at some point this moves out of Russia’s favor.

Well troll, now your ‘offerings’, have degraded & transitioned to the category of: Vacuous inane sh*t. Your ascension to troll heaven imminent ?
@ threatening | Mar 12 2023 10:42 utc | 258 & 262

Note that the Wagner group has not tried to close the encirclement since March 1.

Deadly vs Dangerous ground ? Hello ?
$1 discard bin grade, Troll. MoA deserves better. ‘Tis insulting.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 12 2023 12:11 utc | 261

Posted by: Brother Ma | Mar 12 2023 10:29 utc | 256
This does nothing to improve your case. You make assertions with zero evidence and then speculate further based on that lack of evidence. That is the sign of a concern troll. You clearly can not “change with the evidence” or you’re simply ignorant of the evidence.
I’ll repeat what I said in an earlier posts. The only thing that is relevant is the military balance between Russia and Ukraine, even including NATO weapons shipments to Ukraine. There is absolutely no way Russia can lose this war, short of nukes being deployed. Not even NATO direct intervention can change that. The only thing direct NATO intervention can do is up the body count on both sides – the end result, as numerous NATO war games have proven will be a Russian win over Ukraine and NATO – or WWIII with nukes. Which is exactly what I said: Russia can’t lose unless nukes are used.
None of what you said alters those fact.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 12:11 utc | 262

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 12 2023 12:11 utc | 270
Your take-downs of these trolls is so much more elegant than mine. 🙂
I just call bullshit and tell them to take it down the road.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 12:14 utc | 263

#63 : “10:1 in Russia’s favour. Possibly more.”
That is just funny, you seriously believe that the assaulting force against a defensive position will have a 10:1 positive casualty rate? Given todays tech and the Ukrainian artillery supremacy in precision? You guys are like the QAnon folks, trusting the plan and believing seriously that Hillary Clinton just got hanged at Gitmo. At this point, you are a cult.

Posted by: Fnord73 | Mar 12 2023 12:15 utc | 264

@ Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 12:14 utc | 272
One is likely as passionate as yourself, yet strives as must, for restraint. Ever-reaching for an ‘Elegant’ solution/s, IMHO, is the ultimate objective of any true professional, regardless of domain. Also helps with maintaining mental acuity & deferring onset of Alzheimers … 😉

The only thing that is relevant is the military balance between Russia and Ukraine, even including NATO weapons shipments to Ukraine. There is absolutely no way Russia can lose this war, short of nukes being deployed. Not even NATO direct intervention can change that. The only thing direct NATO intervention can do is up the body count on both sides – the end result, as numerous NATO war games have proven will be a Russian win over Ukraine and NATO – or WWIII with nukes. Which is exactly what I said: Russia can’t lose unless nukes are used.

Deserves repeating, your post, this ^ does. (Yoda verbiage) Prost! Still Steel
@ Fnord73 | Mar 12 2023 12:15 utc | 273
Another $1 discard bin, troll. Perhaps NAFO Fellas are suffering corresponding online, sympathetic, casualties as for AFU ?

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 12 2023 12:35 utc | 265

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 12:11 utc | 271
Actually you didn’t take all the publicly- known premises and logical outcomes into consideration. Not going to argue with you any further as I am not into flame -wars.
See you around and let us hope Russia wins.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Mar 12 2023 12:45 utc | 266

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 12 2023 12:11 utc | 270
Et tu,Outraged? Come to help your fellow old-timer?
You guys really do have a problem with Reds under the beds , don’t you? Cant accept a fellow – traveller not in your own faction? Like the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks…
How about a little less of playing the Man and a little more of playing the ball,ha?
God , I hope they don’t have too many guys like you two in the Russian war staff. Know the price of everything , and the value of nothing,as Jesus said.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Mar 12 2023 12:50 utc | 267

Posted by: Brother Ma | Mar 12 2023 12:45 utc | 276
“Actually you didn’t take all the publicly- known premises and logical outcomes into consideration.”
Classic concern troll – not one single concrete concept in that statement – just overblown bullshit.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 13:01 utc | 268

Ukraine servicemen losses are as high as 315,000 (excluding neo-nazi soldiers from NATO members)

Posted by: AI | Mar 12 2023 13:02 utc | 269

@ AI | Mar 12 2023 13:02 utc | 280
And WIA/MIA/POW ?
@ Brother Ma | Mar 12 2023 12:50 utc | 277 & 278

God, I hope they don’t have too many guys like you two in the Russian war staff. Know the price of everything, and the value of nothing, as Jesus said.

Re previous post to you … QED.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 12 2023 13:12 utc | 270

“The Ukrainian and Russian channels write about the details of what is happening in Moldova:
Sources report that the President of Moldova, Maia Sandu, has postponed for the time being the idea of organizing a provocation and starting a military conflict against Pridnestrovie for one simple reason: the Armed Forces of Ukraine are stuck in the Bakhmut (Artemovsk) meat grinder and suffering huge losses. This is a bad sign.
Sandu promised Zelensky to connect, but now, it seems, she has made amendments or changed her mind, indicating that she will connect only after, or at the moment of, a successful offensive by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Now Sandu is busy with three things:
1. preparing for war by importing weapons and “asking”(begging) the West for air defense, etc.
2. Tries to discredit the protests in order to hold on to power.
3. Tries to clean up the information and socio-political fields of the country in order to win the elections.
Many analysts are sure that the Transnistrian case depends on the development of events in the Ukrainian crisis.”
@Slavyangrad
It is very obvious, if the Ukrainian army keeps getting depleted in Donbass and is pinned down with inability to retreat without running a high risk of the collapsing front, they will never open a second front.

Posted by: unimperator | Mar 12 2023 13:19 utc | 271

Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 12:11 utc | 271
there is another (maybe more) ‘operational outcome’ to the straussian neocon plan:
rather than only nuclear ww iii/mad or nato loss*
consider the straussians regard russia as a moral nation that would endure the death of a thousand cuts and bled out before they choose to destroy the world…..
*nato, especially usa, does not have the logistics tail to win, even if either eu or usa had the order of battle.

Posted by: paddy | Mar 12 2023 13:37 utc | 272

@ Brother Ma 276
I think you are under the impression that Britain or Europe have their own agency or power. Thatcherisation long ago led to Britain selling its nuclear facilities to Israel and even if it has nuclear or any other weapons they are zionist control.
Syria is controlled by Russia, Israel and the US. Neither Britain nor the EU has any agency or power in this Ukrainian war.
That’s what I gather from Voltairenet about the end result of the last war, in Syria.
I personally believe that Israel wants to use Ukraine as food resource for Greater Israel, the US wants Ukraine in order to control and profit from the new China export railway and Russia wants security guarantees from its neighbours in order to muck in with their desires.
Nobody wants to.pollute Ukraine, Europe ir the rest of the world either with a Fukushima fuckup or Armaggeddon. They’ll want to benefit from their victory over Syria, which has increased the reach of their ambitions and their dick-waving power. A 3 way triumvirate controlling the Western hemisphere and submitting Europe and the Middle East to Pax Syriana, later to become Pax Occident / Western Power or maybe Greater Israel in their wet dreams.
The conflict imho is not between Nato and Russia, but between the winners of the Syrian war and everybody else inside-out outside this Zone of All of Europe, all of the Middle East and all of North America and Canada and Australia in the West
That leaves South America, Africa, Asia Muslim and not Muslim, either subjugated or not subjugated, but used as colonies, maybe under universal patriarchy like BRICS or SCO to govern trade mechanisms in the West’s favour.
As to the military experts here, as you say, there’s always more than one way to skin a banana.

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 12 2023 13:44 utc | 273

@ unimperator | Mar 12 2023 13:19 utc | 282
IF true, merely only one of numerous indicators ongoing of AFU desperate status re holding the Line.
Criticality of insufficient combat-effective/capable minimal strategic reserves, let alone units in contact, and further demonstration of inability to raise/re-constitute sufficient equipped/trained/armed replacements for bled-white/shattered Battalions & Brigades. Constantly juggling insufficient forces, detaching & re-deploying ‘fire-brigades’, in response to being attrited due RF Theater & Initiative Dominance via primarily, yet not only, superior direct & indirect ranged Fires combat power.
After Bahkmut, or concurrently upon the next envelopment or breach, what then ? The AFU Situ cannot continue indefinitely, or even probably beyond the short-term. Overstretched rubber-band is gonna break.
What % of AFU soldiers ever actually sight a RF soldier, or fire their personal weapon at one, before they become a casualty ?
Yet a further indicator of many of impending likely abandonment of proxy Ukraine, to it’s fate, by US/NATO/EU, & the follow-on consequences thereof, IMV.
@ paddy | Mar 12 2023 13:37 utc | 283

*nato, especially usa, does not have the logistics tail to win, even if either eu or usa had the order of battle.

Absolutely. That is, the real world, hard reality.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 12 2023 13:47 utc | 274

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 12 2023 13:44 utc | 284
Agree with you ,Giyane. Yes, In the short term I do think it is Russia against Nato , but of course in the longterm and even now , it is the USA cannibalising its own (vassals).
Russia must win to give average people hope and more importantly a decent lifestyle. All Leftist parties were co- opted and destroyed once the Cold War ended. That is why we have the travesty of British /Australian Labour and the German Greens in our lifetimes. As long as there is no serous Russian counterweight , the USA and its satraps will not be afraid to strip away all pay , conditions, commons from the people ,in a return to feudalism.
Yes, there certainly are a few dogmatic types here.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Mar 12 2023 13:58 utc | 275

Could it be that both sets of number are correct, and only the definition of ‘Russian’ differs? If Ukraine counts Russian native speakers as Russian casualties, then the numbers of both sides can be reconciled, e.g.:
– 150,000 Ukraine Russian native speaking soldiers
– 25,000 Western Ukrainian soldiers
– 25,000 Russian soldiers
Russia says they lost 25k, and Ukraine lost 175k. Ukraine says they lost 25k, and there were 175k Russian casualties. Both are correct, in their definitions. I think this interpretation cannot be ruled out, as some Ukrainians have hinted at willingness of depopulation in Crimea and Donbass, for example. It would also explain the willingness of the Ukrainian government to send ‘reinforcements’ into the meat grinder without proper equipment.

Posted by: WBerliner | Mar 12 2023 14:06 utc | 276

Posted by: WBerliner | Mar 12 2023 14:06 utc | 280
That’s an explanation I’ve been thinking for a long time. In true projection and orwellian double speak fashion, the Ukraine definition of Russian troop casualties may actually mean all native Russian speakers, also in Ukraine, which can essentially flip their real losses into Russian losses.

Posted by: unimperator | Mar 12 2023 14:10 utc | 277

@ fanto | Mar 12 2023 4:49 utc | 193

So, the whole fearmongering about Russia’s threat is such a big lie…
_________________________________________
Well – to anybody in his, at least, fairly right mind things already have been and also should furtheron be clear for that matter. Especially with regard to the fact, that nobody else than the Value-West wants to pouch Russias natural wealth (like in the 1990’s, as is known)rather than the other way around.
But still, just as Goring already put it ~85 years ago, just telling people (p1) to be »threatened« by another people (p2) (p1 = those, whose own ‘elite’ intends to crush p2 and their nation and sack their resources) is the best legerdemain one can ever think of in order to bring his or her p1 into the line, in the end i. e. towards war against p2.

Posted by: Yogi | Mar 12 2023 14:36 utc | 278

The West has been stepping up the production of artillery shells and other things. Given the relative sized of the Russian versus Western economics at some point this moves out of Russia’s favor. If you watch Russian media they are already concerned about this. Even more concerned than most of those here.
Posted by: Bill Smith | March 12, 2023 at 10:35
You work in manufacturing, do you ? You know about plant capacities in munitions in Europe and USA ? The only country in the Western sphere on wartime production cycles would be South Korea…………in UK there is one BAe plant and that would require major re-tooling to increase output.
Germany had production but I doubt it is scalable.
Apparently Europe imports cotton lintners from China and it has quite an order backlog.
Not clear how many billion Europe intends to invest in new production plants and machine-tools but it will probably involve 2-3 years of waiting…………and maybe electorates don’t intend to waste money on shipping munitions to Ukraine ?
https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/ramping-what-will-it-take-boost-uks-magazine-depth
https://www.baesystems.com/en/productfamily/munitions
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/uk-arms-company-considering-to-restart-production-of-m777:-w

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 12 2023 16:04 utc | 279

Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 11 2023 21:48 utc | 75

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 11 2023 19:38 utc | 45
LOL that wasn’t me. Please match email/handle/IP in order to weed out these body snatchers.
Of course my opinion is the exact opposite of what this troll said.

I knew it !

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Mar 12 2023 16:40 utc | 280

Ah I see you’ve discovered the Irish Times, Ireland’s newspaper of record. If it’s any comfort, they are effetively bankrupt and I would imagine printing anything that anyone will pay for. Cunts.

Posted by: Due West | Mar 12 2023 16:54 utc | 281

@Norwegian | Mar 12 2023 8:16 utc | 234
Thank you for your clarification of the Norway history in WW2. Even more important to see how ridiculous is the idea of Russian wanting to conquer Europe.

Posted by: fanto | Mar 12 2023 17:43 utc | 282

@fanto | Mar 12 2023 17:43 utc | 284

Even more important to see how ridiculous is the idea of Russian wanting to conquer Europe.

Indeed. Thanks for responding.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2023 18:22 utc | 283

re: Dingo | Mar 12 2023 5:52 utc | 207
you wrote:
I was reading smoothie 12 comments section
Someone posted an article by dimitry orlov
His article expounded on nuclear deterrence.

I am interested in that article; can you please tell me what day/post the comment appeared in? thanks
(I am not a paying Boosty member for Orlov)

Posted by: Perimetr | Mar 12 2023 19:48 utc | 284

The title of the article: bernhard abou vsu losses.
The post&link was by Tiago

Posted by: Dingo | Mar 12 2023 21:15 utc | 285

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2023 8:16 utc | 234

On the same morning, under the cover of the Nazi onslaught, Vidkun Quisling executed an illegal coup d’etat via national radio and pronounced himself “minister president”.

Arguably, Quisling’s quick action saved Norway from a worse fate at the hands of its pro-British elite who might have made Norway another major theater of WW II action. The real interests of a country’s ruling class rarely coincide with those of ordinary people.

The Liberation of Finnmark was a military operation, lasting from 23 October 1944 until 26 April 1945, in which Soviet and Norwegian forces wrestled away control of Finnmark, the northernmost county of Norway, from Germany. It started with a Soviet offensive that liberated Kirkenes.

No doubt the Finns were unanimously overjoyed to be liberated by Finlands former Russian and ex-Swedish overlords. (Norway had been part of Sweden until 1905.)
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 12 2023 8:16 utc | 234

Posted by: Pacific Observer | Mar 12 2023 22:25 utc | 286

Think rationally…
All sides agree that Russia is firing vastly more artillery than Ukraine. Russia – 20,000 shells a day, Ukraine – 5000. Give or take. Ok.
All sides also agree that the high majority of casualties in this conflict are due to artillery, around 85% or higher.
So pur these two undisputed facts together and what do you get?
Precisely.

Posted by: Slider | Mar 12 2023 22:27 utc | 287

Norwegian | Mar 12 2023 8:16 utc | 234
Your language demonstrates what is wrong with Europe. You are all apologists, hiding under the skirts of America to shield you from actual responsibility from what you’ve done.
Norway was militarily attacked 9. April 1940 by the German Nazi army
Norway was not attacked by a “Nazi army.” It was attacked by the duly constituted army of the German nation. The same nation that legally elevated Adolph Hitler and the Nazi party to power.
You similarly do not mention that the British invaded Norway at Trondheim at the same time. Because Germany and Britain were at war, the British were in the process of mining the sea lanes around Norway and the Germans responded.
Your language whitewashes the responsibility of the German people and misconstrues the actual circumstances surrounding the occupation of your nation. A very typical European trait, particularly amongst the Germanics and Nordics.
On the same morning, under the cover of the Nazi onslaught, Vidkun Quisling executed an illegal coup d’etat via national radio and pronounced himself “minister president”…
Again, it wasn’t a “Nazi onslaught.” It was a military campaign on Norwegian soil conducted by two warring powers (Germany and Great Britain). You completely whitewash the British of any responsibility for their war strategy. Why? Because the British “won” (and brought their stronger little brother USA to the party) and you as a nation are currying favor with the victors. Hard to respect that.
A “coup” is by definition “illegal.” Your use of the latter word is designed to absolve Norwegians of responsibility in siding with the Nazis. How many Norwegian soldiers died opposing this coup? That’s what I thought.
The rest of your characterisation of Quisling is surprisingly accurate, so I’ll cut you some slack. He had such little legitimacy amongst the Norwegians that the Nazis initially ignored him and dealt with the King’s administrative state. But how exactly did your people “resist” the Quisling regime when it took power again later in the war?
The Soviet Red Army crossed the border into northern Norway (Finnmark) in late 1944 and liberated eastern Finnmark from The German Nazis, i.e. they pushed the Nazis away from the Russian border. The Red Army soon returned home. The people of Norway have always been grateful for this.
I’m sure they are. The fact is the most culpable parts of Europe have never been held fully accountable for their role in collaboration with Nazism. Norway included. Hever forget it, because i can ensure you the Russians never had. And America is getting ready to leave you to your own devices.

Posted by: Joe Sixpack | Mar 12 2023 23:03 utc | 288

In Oslo, Norway, before and after the year 1990, there were scores of womn called “Russian prostitutes” in the more posh parts of Oslo. I often recauntees them in front of the Royal Palace and its environs, due to the fact that i let mu Russian wolf hound (“Borzoï”) excercise there. By and by, it came out that those whres ewere for the most part pure ukraïnians, Until then, The Ukraïne precence had only been noticeable from Kiew malware thet destroyed my computer each time i had lent my place in oslo to pervert male homosexuals during my vacations — they had gorged themselves in Ukraïni snuff, pervert and “homo” stuff,
What else can I say to characterise the Uko influence in NW Europe? (Probably a lot and even more worth of derogatory into their own Romean Catholic purgatories. For instance, they are now snitching al low-payed jobs from bona fide refugees from Africa!)

Posted by: Tollef Ås/秋涛乐/טלפ וש | Mar 13 2023 6:21 utc | 289

@289 in response to @234
Norwegian | Mar 12 2023 8:16 utc | 234
Your language demonstrates what is wrong with Europe. You are all apologists, hiding under the skirts of America to shield you from actual responsibility from what you’ve done.

Your language whitewashes the responsibility of the German people and misconstrues the actual circumstances surrounding the occupation of your nation. A very typical European trait, particularly amongst the Germanics and Nordics.

I suppose you can pinpoint where ‘Norwegian’ comes off as an ‘apologist’. Preferrably without name-calling or other ad hominem attacks.

Posted by: joey_n | Mar 13 2023 8:40 utc | 290

@289
May one suggest not painting the hundreds of millions who live in the European continent with the same broad brush? False equivalence? Where does Norwegian (234) come off as an “apologist”?

Posted by: joey_n | Mar 13 2023 8:51 utc | 291

But what happens after that is, as my previous post indicates, is my new concern. A new Cold War 2.0 direct kinetic conflict between NATO and Russia leading to WWIII is a direct threat to me. I couldn’t care less what happens to Europe in the process, but a direct US war with Russia is not in my interest.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 12 2023 1:58 utc | 154
I think a direct war will happen no matter what any of us wish. The kind of war that happens will be dependent on Russia alone. At this time, IMO a emp strike strong enough to take out all U.S. government communications will do the trick.
If anyone were interested in my recommendation, I would leave it at that. I would not follow up with any sort of boots on the ground, so to speak. The U.S. Banking and MIC sectors will rapidly implode on each other.
American Patriots will take care of the rest and not look kindly to any Russian or chicom hegemony.

Posted by: T.D. | Mar 13 2023 12:41 utc | 292

@ 292 – not to nitpick, but your final comment about American Patriots — that’s bluster, yes? Because Russia has military superiority, escalation dominance, etc, etc?

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Mar 13 2023 12:44 utc | 293

At 293
I believe TD meant sane US citizens

Posted by: Azscout | Mar 13 2023 13:38 utc | 294

“ focus instead on a style of mechanized maneuver warfare that uses rapid, unanticipated movements against Russia, sources familiar with their discussion said.”
it appears it isn’t realistic to pull off “rapid, unanticipated movements” when both sides have spotting drones, SIGINT, space-based ISR, and kill chains to direct artillery, missiles, etc. onto enemy formations. The NATO “advice” to Ukraine to use “more maneuver” and “less artillery” is stupid, as we have seen with some of the early Russian attacks and water crossings.

Posted by: A A Ron | Mar 13 2023 15:59 utc | 295

joey_n | Mar 13 2023 8:51 utc | 291
Norwegian engages in a tactic common to apologists: demonise a symbolic scapegoat upon which all the sins of the nation can be ascribed, thereby justifying the behavior of those remaining. It is intellectually dishonest and distorts history.
Quisling entered the Norwegian army in 1911 and served as military attaché in St. Petersburg from 1918–19 and in Helsinki from 1919–21. He represented British interests at the Norwegian legation in Moscow from 1927–29. He was Norway’s minister of defense from 1931–33 but resigned from the government in 1933 to form the fascist National Union Party.
When the British and Germans invaded Norway in April 1940 Quisling proclaimed himself Prime Minister. The Germans initially recognised his government but withdrew that recognition seven days later after the Norwegian king refused to appoint him as head of government.
In June the Norwegian king and his cabinet fled the country for London and for next two years the Germans ruled Norway via collaborationist councils appointed first by Norway’s Supreme Court and then replaced by the Germans. Quisling was not part of either he council, though in February 1942 the council appointed him as “minister president.”

The nation of Norway was (and still is) a collaborationist entity. The king who fled collaborated with the British and those that governed collaborated with the Germans. Today its leaders collaborate with whoever they perceive is strongest in Europe. And should the Russians ever move into western Europe, they will collaborate with them.
People dominated by stronger nations have two choices: collaborate or suffer. There is nothing inherently shameful in doing what one has to do to survive. The shame comes from lying about one’s past to obscure what really happened and to recast it as some sort of heroic act.

Posted by: Joe Sixpack | Mar 13 2023 16:11 utc | 296

@Ringo for those interested in an Austrian perspective of the German inflation between 1914 and 1923 which facilitated the events leading up to WW2 should read “The Economics of Inflation” by Costantino Bresciani-Turroni. While not the easiest reading it’s considered a classic and well worth the effort.

Posted by: Charles M. | Mar 13 2023 17:09 utc | 297

I read that 75% of SVBs financial losses were also due to Russian artillery.

Posted by: ct palmer | Mar 16 2023 18:03 utc | 298

There is nothing inherently shameful in doing what one has to do to survive. The shame comes from lying about one’s past to obscure what really happened and to recast it as some sort of heroic act.
Posted by: Joe Sixpack | Mar 13 2023 16:11 utc | 297

I wonder, of course, why anyone would be motivated to lie about their past to cover up what really happened and cast it as some sort of heroic act when there’s nothing inherently shameful about doing what you have to do to to survive.
There is really only one compelling reason to do just that. Because it is inherently shameful to act as a collaborator for one’s own benefit and to the detriment of one’s countrymen.

Posted by: Nobody | Mar 17 2023 19:46 utc | 299