Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 15, 2023

The Worst Deal Ever - Australia To Pay U.S. For Nuclear Insecurity

The the last week's review I mentioned the AUKUS deal. It was first announced in September 2021. Back then I wrote:

Yesterday the U.S., the UK and Australia announced that the latter one will buy nuclear powered submarines to do the U.S.' bidding against China.
This is a huge but short term win for the U.S. with an also-ran booby price for Britain and a strategic loss of sovereignty and budget control for Australia.

It is another U.S. slap into the face of France and the European Union. The deal will piss off New Zealand, Indonesia and of course China. It will upset the international nuclear non proliferation regime and may lead to the further military nuclearization of South Korea and Japan.

Australia currently has six conventional submarines. It had ordered new ones from France but scrapped that deal for AUKUS:

The price for the new submarines Australia will have to pay will be much higher that for the French ones. Some $3 billion have already been sunk into the French contract. France will rightfully demand additional compensation for cancelling it. The new contract with the U.S. or UK will cost more than the French one but will only include 8 instead of 12 boats. As three boats are needed to keep one at sea (while the other two are training or in refit), the actual patrolling capacity for Australia's navy will sink from 4 to 2-3 concurrent submarines at sea.

The much higher price of the fewer more complicate boats will upset Australia's defense budget for decades to come.

I further suggested that blackmail may have played a role in the AUKUS deal.

A few day's after the announcement there were new details publish which suggested that Australia would lease nuclear submarines from the U.S. because the new ones will take many years to build. It would upgrade Perth harbor to be able to handle nuclear propulsion boats:

Perth will thereby be build up into a base that is compatible with the likely permanent stationing of U.S. nuclear submarines. These carry nuclear weapons.

The 'leased' boats, or at least their propulsion parts, would of course be still manned by U.S. or British sailors. The Australians already have problems retaining crews for their existing submarines. The few that will be available for the 'leased' boats will not be enough to run them. The Australians would pay largely for the privilege of being guests on board of doubtlessly U.S. commanded submarines.

Australia's overall position did not look well:

Australia's extraction boom fueled by China's rise is coming to an end. The country will have to cut its budget and will need to seek a new economic model.

But why did I call this a "huge but short term win" for the U.S.?

It is a win in that the U.S. has gained a submarine base in Australia and will get paid for using it. This looks well if the intent is to wage a cold war on China. It is doubtful that this is a necessary strategy and it is equally doubtful that it can be successful. The weapons manufacturers will of course still love it.

But it is a only a short term win in the sense that the U.S. will lose many of its current and potential future partners over it. It has degraded its QUAD partner India and Japan to second tier status. It has increased suspicion in Indonesia, Malaysia and even Singapore of eventual nefarious plans against them.

In May 2022 Australia elected a new parliament. Labor replaced the Liberals in the government. It found that the new submarines and the whole deal was extremely expensive. That was the chance to bury it:

The answers are obvious. Ditch the whole AUKUS deal and buy the German U-boats.

The real reason for the deal might well have been the U.S. wish for a port and base in Australia from where it can send its own nuclear submarines to harass China.

The offer to Australia to buy nuclear submarines was likely only made to remove Australian public resistance to the stationing of nuclear submarines (with nuclear weapons) on the continent.

Australia will be better off without those.

But Anthony Albanese, the new prime minister, did not have the courage to push for ending the deal. Last week the three involved countries announced new details:

Australia’s nuclear submarine program will cost up to [AUS]$368 billion over the next three decades, with confirmation that the federal government will buy at least three American-manufactured nuclear submarines and contribute "significant additional resources" to US shipyards.

The Australian government will take three, potentially second-hand Virginia-class submarines early next decade, pending the approval of the US Congress.

There will also be an option to purchase another two under the landmark AUKUS defence and security pact, announced in San Diego this morning.

In the meantime, design and development work will continue on a brand new submarine, known as the SSN-AUKUS, "leveraging” work the British have already been doing to replace their Astute-class submarines.

That submarine — which will form the AUKUS class — would eventually be operated by both the UK and Australia, using American combat systems.

One submarine will be built every two years from the early 2040s through to the late 2050s, with five SSN-AUKUS boats delivered to the Royal Australian Navy by the middle of the 2050s.

Most curious is the buy of second hand Virgina class boats. A leasing agreement would have been much better. Nuclear driven submarines are extraordinary expensive to scarp. Their 60% enriched Uranium fuel will have to be guarded for a very long time. Australia has no experience with anything nuclear.

The former Australian prime minister Paul Keating has called the agreement the worst deal in history:

Paul Keating has labelled the $368bn Aukus nuclear submarine plan as the “worst deal in all history” and “the worst international decision” by a Labor government since Billy Hughes tried to introduce conscription.

The former Labor prime minister launched an extraordinary broadside against the Albanese government at the National Press Club on Wednesday, blasting the “incompetence” of Labor backing the decision to sign up to Aukus while in opposition and when it had “no mandate” to do so.
The $368bn being spent to acquire as few as eight nuclear submarines – Virginia class and next-generation SSN-Aukus submarines – was the “worst deal in all history”, he said, because it could buy 40 to 50 conventional submarines instead.

Keating also revealed that France, which lost a contract for conventional Attack class submarines in favour of Aukus, had offered “a new deal” for the “newest French nuclear submarines”.

These would require only “5% enriched uranium, not 95%, weapons grade” and came with a “firm delivery date” of 2034 at “fixed prices”, he said. The French received “no response”, Keating claimed.

James Acton, an expert a nuclear defense policy, commented on the deal:

(((James Acton))) @james_acton32 - 20:16 UTC · Mar 13, 2023

As @POTUS, @RishiSunak, and @AlboMP announce AUKUS submarine plan, here’s my assessment of the technical and proliferation risks.

BLUF: They’ve made serious efforts to mitigate those risks, but those that remain are real and significant.

Link to video of announcement

Here’s the plan (in brief):
1. 🇬🇧 & 🇺🇸 deploy SSNs* in🇦🇺(from 2027)
2. 🇦🇺deploys Virginia-class SSNs purchased from 🇺🇸 (from ~2032)
3. 🇦🇺deploys AUKUS SSNs, designed and produced with UK (starting in early 2040s)
*SSN=nuclear-powered attack sub.

Acton details the risks of the deal. They are huge. Next to financial, technological and timing risks there are also the proliferation issues. The deal is defying the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and should Australia get an exception for the deal from the IAEA others will make similar requests.

I responded Acton's second tweet:

Moon of Alabama @MoonofA - 20:24 UTC · Mar 13, 2023

1. is what the U.S. wanted from AUKUS.
2. will be with mostly U.S. crew and under only nominal AUS command.
3. is way too costly for AUS and will never happen.

Australia will spend billions to upgrade naval base HMAS Stirling in Western Australia so the U.S. and UK can use it for their rotational stationing there. It will 'invest' more billions in nuclear shipyards in the U.S. and UK. It will pay billions for the Virginia class boats over which it will have little sovereignty.

Submarine designs are long complicate programs. It took 35 million labor hours design the first batch of Virginia-class boats and it took nine million labor hours to build the first one. The new SSN-AUKUS will have similar costs and issues. I for one expect that none will ever be build. Neither Australia nor the UK have the money for them.

Still - the political fallout will come from all sides.

With this deal Australia is essentially paying the U.S. an exorbitant price to confront Australia's biggest customer, China. Its neighbors are unhappy. Indonesia is making noise about the proliferation risk as is Malaysia. Europe is miffed that Australia scrapped the deal with France and rejected the new French offer. The deal does not increase Australia's security.

Labor party members, who saw the interview with Keating (vid), will come to understand that their party leaders made the wrong decision.

What will it take to revers it?

Posted by b on March 15, 2023 at 16:50 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Australia and Canada are jokes of countries.

Posted by: Comandante | Mar 15 2023 16:58 utc | 1

Because ....

WASHINGTON — The U.S. Navy will immediately suspend submarine repair work at four dry docks in Washington state, following new concerns about their ability to withstand seismic activity, service leaders told Defense News.

The Navy identified new concerns related to dry docks 4, 5 and 6 at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard as well as the dry dock at Trident Refit Facility Bangor, two service officials told Defense News on Thursday.

links are easy to find, draw your own conclusions re: "seismic activity"

Posted by: somebody | Mar 15 2023 17:01 utc | 2

Gonna have to sell a lot of raw materials to China to pay for those subs!
Wonder how's that being digested by China.

Cannibal capitalism is fully upon us!

Posted by: jpc | Mar 15 2023 17:15 utc | 3

As someone once said:

“Being an enemy of the U.S. is dangerous, being a friend is lethal.”

Australia is raw, undeniable proof of that, and its successive leaders are too dumb and craven to look after the country's and residents' interests.

Posted by: Ernesto Che | Mar 15 2023 17:18 utc | 4

Australia and Canada are jokes of countries.

Posted by: Comandante | Mar 15 2023 16:58 utc | 1
Add the EU to the list.
Anyone care to speculate how the democratic western political system has become so compromised and populated by very defective people throughout?
It's wall to wall clowns.
And the alternative choices are no better.
WTF has gone wrong?

Posted by: jpc | Mar 15 2023 17:21 utc | 5

@Posted by: Comandante | Mar 15 2023 16:58 utc | 1

"Australia and Canada are jokes of countries."

I second this comment, and as a British Canadian add the UK. The level of "false consciousness" (or just the they are bought and paid for / personally threatened and/or blackmailed) of these elites, and the sheer level of traitorous behaviour with respect to the true national interest is off the scale.

Our wonderful Canadian foreign affairs minister, Ms. Jolie, has outright stated that the government policy is for Russian regime change while the country ships everything it can to the Ukronazis and squelches any domestic dissent.

Canada threw away years of good relations with China when it kidnapped Ms. Meng. Now Australia does the same with the silly AUKUS sub deal that as B says, defends it against its biggest trading partner while pissing off all of ASEAN and the French - a full house of utter stupidity. Then we have the UK elites seemingly still living in the past of a "Global Britain" scrimping up money for a shrunken navy and even more shrunken army while shipping anything not bolted down to Ukraine. New Zealand seems to be the only sane one in the Anglo world when dealing with China, but who knows with a new PM?

Posted by: Roger | Mar 15 2023 17:24 utc | 6

"second hand Virgina" ;)

Posted by: vector | Mar 15 2023 17:26 utc | 7

Non-proliferation has been dead and buried since Iraq, Libya and Syria.

If you don't want to be a colony and don't want to be attacked, you need nukes. The conclusion was inescapable.

Then North Korea proved it even further (by obtaining nukes and never being touched).

Indonesia is approaching a population of 300M, it certainly has the resources to be a nuclear state if Pakistan is one, and it won't be the last one. It's 80-year old technology at this point, it's not that hard.

In fact many countries had their own nuclear programs during the Cold War but abandoned them before crossing the threshold. We can easily have a couple dozen of them again.

Avoiding the end of the world will become ever harder. Nuclear game theory was already quite complicated with two main actors. With many it becomes a total nightmare.

It already is in fact -- e.g. China's nuclear silos are located in the deserts along the Mongolian border. Which has the curious consequence that in most situations Russia will be forced to fire everything as well when a US launch against China is detected because Russian strategic sites are also in the same general area, just a bit further north, and it will be hard to tell who it is aiming for.

We know the world was close to everything being launched by mistake many times.

Now add hypersonics, IRBMs, and other delivery methods (certain morons laughed at me when I mentioned putting nukes on low flying hard to detect drones some time ago, but there is nothing absurd about the idea -- in the Cold War days before the arms control treaties that have now been done away with they were putting nukes on everything, including 155/152mm shells), which will reduce reaction time to mere minutes.

Then cover the map with nuclear installations in every other major country and fill the seas with SSBNs.

And what do we get?

All because certain countries find it easier to temporarily postpone solving their own internal problems by exporting the externalities abroad...

Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 15 2023 17:29 utc | 8

Posted by: Ernesto Che | Mar 15 2023 17:18 utc | 4

That was Kissinger, one of the few times he told the truth.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Mar 15 2023 17:32 utc | 9

The last part of my chapter on China China: Strategic Culture & Political Economy

Its in China's interests to not trigger a military conflict with the US, as it is still growing at 5% or possibly more while the US is headed into another recession with eye-watering levels of personal, business and government debt. They can help Australia feel the pain long-term by sourcing all their natural gas from friendly nations and diversifying their sources of iron ore and coking coal. Otherwise they can just sit and watch Australia waste US$100 billions on submarines they won't even fully control and will be probably useless by the time they are delivered sometime in the 2030s. By then the Chinese economy will be bigger than the US and Europe combined, and the US will be no match for the Chinese military in the South China Sea. Also, ASEAN will make sure that their waters are not used for aggression against China.

Posted by: Roger | Mar 15 2023 17:32 utc | 10

Let's not forget how France ditched the Mistral contract with Russia because the US ordered them to do so. Just another vassal.

Posted by: Eighthman | Mar 15 2023 17:32 utc | 11

It's actually a good idea. Australia has actual need of nuclear's hated and hopelessly outnumbered by its neighbors. A lot like Israel actually in that regard. It may be the only card Australia has to remain secure in the coming decades and centuries.

Now though signing deals with Biden eeesh doesn't inspire confidence. I can only hope the Australians actually get the nuke subs and its not just another woke diversity hire waste of resources.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 15 2023 17:33 utc | 12

One thing Ukraine has exposed brightly and this is an extension of that; Europe, and the Five Eyes are not independent countries signing on to "American" foreign policy because it's for the good, but precisely because there is no independence from the Empire once you are assimilated.

Posted by: gottlieb | Mar 15 2023 17:38 utc | 13

@Posted by: gottlieb | Mar 15 2023 17:38 utc | 14

Vassals will be vassals ....

Posted by: Roger | Mar 15 2023 17:40 utc | 14

Australia is raw, undeniable proof of that, and its successive leaders are too dumb and craven to look after the country's and residents' interests.

Posted by: Ernesto Che | Mar 15 2023 17:18 utc | 4

Go back to the COVID situation in 2020 and early 2021.

Australia and NZ could have done a COVID-free bubble with China and several other East Asian countries and gradually expanded it as the benefits of it became clear to the rest of the world (forget about health if you want, even economically they were doing a lot better when borders were closed and there was no virus in the community than the counties that let it rip).

What happened instead was that the US first ordered its European vassals to abandon containment, and later ordered AU and NZ to do the same (likely after all the Western oligarchs who had evacuated to their mansions and bunkers in AU/NZ felt safe enough with vaccinations and anti-virals to come back from isolation). And they of course complied.

So instead of much of the world coming together and upholding the principles behind one of our greatest civilizational achievements -- getting rid of dangerous infectious disease over the course of the 20th century -- and leaving the US isolated as the plague island where the local elites refused to do proper public health because it would have cost them too much to save the lives of the proles, the whole world ended up as one big plague island.

But this isn't entirely on the elites -- as long as the population consists of fully pacified dumb ignorant idiots who can be tricked into believing any lie even when it directly goes against their long-term self interests (many of which I fully expect to flood the comment section below this comment), and who will never rebel and actually put the heads of the elites on pikes, the elites are free to commit whatever heinous crimes they want.

Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 15 2023 17:42 utc | 15

Probably the same for Australia:

"Britain today has a UniParty — the party of government, which seems to consist of the same people as the party of the opposition." (Indian Punchline, 14 March)

Seems certain this is so for the US.

Speaking of "autocracy". . . know thyself?

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Mar 15 2023 17:46 utc | 16

Let's not forget how France ditched the Mistral contract with Russia because the US ordered them to do so. Just another vassal.

Posted by: Eighthman | Mar 15 2023 17:32 utc | 11

That was good for Russia though.

How was that deal even considered?

How can a nuclear superpower, with a fully developed submarine and ship-building industry, buy warships from another country is a member of the alliance that exists primarily to fight against it?

The Russians couldn't build them themselves?

Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 15 2023 17:46 utc | 17

Did by any chance any body else see the news about the downing of a US drone by a Russian pilot over the Black sea a couple of days ago? I just saw a headline on a small news website but not much explanation. If you have a link to post would be great. Thanks.

Posted by: TruthSeeker | Mar 15 2023 17:47 utc | 18

It's actually a good idea. Australia has actual need of nuclear's hated and hopelessly outnumbered by its neighbors. A lot like Israel actually in that regard. It may be the only card Australia has to remain secure in the coming decades and centuries.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 15 2023 17:33 utc | 13

Which neighbors exactly?

The kangaroos and the emus in the desert?

Papua, NZ, and the small islands in the Pacific?

Indonesia? Maybe, but how exactly would Indonesia do anything to Australia? Amphibious invasions are essentially impossible in the modern era, and you don't need nuclear submarines to ensure that. Ukraine doesn't have them, but it is out of the question for Russia to land in Odessa.

Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 15 2023 17:50 utc | 19

The debt, idiot, the debt is the rational explanation for all these Western elites´ irrational behaviors. Here is the hidden picture: They (the governing elites) say: If we do not follow, à la letter, the ukases of the "chosenites", the real owners of our country´s private and public debts, most likely we will lose the next elections at best, our credits will not be renewed, at worst, "the money printers" will attack our economy, our currency, foment unrest, opening the gates of a color revolution. But if we consent, we are undisturbed, in the short run, assisted, supported monetary-wise, while praying the high heaven that some miraculous event will topple Putin and another Eltsine-like Buffon will appear on the Russian political landscape.

Posted by: nietzsche1510 | Mar 15 2023 17:54 utc | 20

Australia has simply provided a nuclear submarine port and repair facility to the US Navy.......just as it has provided a US Marine base in Queensland

Australia has two refineries - simply destroying those would give China major advantage over Australia. This is simply reflective of the disaster the Collins submarines were and the stupidity of Australian politicians........

They gain simply brings Australia into alignment.........and cuts New Zealand adrift. If these submarines are ever built no-one will want to pay for them......

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 15 2023 18:01 utc | 21

The wall to wall clown show looks as if it were intentional. Hire the incompetent and deluded every time, no exceptions.

Suppose this is part of an intentional self-destruction of the West. Who decided to do this?

Very hard to believe this is all happening inadvertently, in a fit of absent mindedness. Also very hard to believe there are Great Overlords who decided West is done, the East shall come to the fore.

All Empires come to an end. This one ending at a phenomenal pace.

Posted by: oldhippie | Mar 15 2023 18:10 utc | 22

It will take 10 years for these subs to be built and by then, USA may not exist. Just another pork barrel project.

Posted by: JustTruth | Mar 15 2023 18:15 utc | 23

I seem to recall a SE Asia leaders conference last year where it was agreed that the countries in the region didn’t want nuclear defense as it would bring conflict to the region. The purpose of their meeting was to increase ways of working together to every country‘s benefit. As usual the US/U.K. is working to dismantle their project.

Posted by: Valerie Swales | Mar 15 2023 18:24 utc | 24

I shouldn't be amazed at governments willfully destroying themselves for paltry or no gains, but I am. The US and UK are hollowed-out shells; as b notes, it doesn't seem plausible that they can produce new nuclear subs. Even if they do by 2050, it won't matter, as climate-biosphere collapse will be well underway by then. Funny to think we've avoided the nuclear war that gave me nightmares as a kid and adolescent, but may throw nukes around when there's not enough to eat.

Posted by: D | Mar 15 2023 18:24 utc | 25

@ Roger 10

Did you write a book about war is in a country's interests?

So you would agree with Zelensky that a country's population is expendable if certain political advantages will accrue to the new population who didn't die for it?

I hope nobody's planning a war against you.

Posted by: Giyane | Mar 15 2023 18:29 utc | 26

The AUKUS submarine saga reminds me of a televised film that I watched in the mid-1980s, called 'The Secret Shore'. The film was set in Wales,
with Welsh actors among the cast.

The plot concerned well - advanced plans to build a new joint UKUS submarine base on the Welsh Coast.
One of the themes of the film was the perceived need secrecy, resulting in the extra-judicial and state-sanctioned killing of environmental activists who learned of the plan accidentally.

I was quite depressed after seeing the film, which was perhaps intended to intimidate anti-nuclear campaigners of the period. I've looked for references to the film on the internet, but it appears to have been erased and excised from the public record.

I also have the feeling that the was at least some element or basis of historical veracity and actuality in the events that were portrayed.

I am struck by the contrast between the imperative of secrecy as a motivation for state (deep state?) policy and actions in that late cold-war era film narrative, and the extreme opposite of the evident desire for maximum publicity in connection with the planned AUKUS submarine project.

Conditioning and convincing of the Australian populace to accept a need for more UKUS- controlled military bases and manufacturing of consent for associated naval and military activity and operations appear to be immediate goals of the current domestic publicity campaign in Australia.

Posted by: johnF | Mar 15 2023 18:30 utc | 27

Caitlin Johnstone had a very good article on Australian subservience to the US military policy the other day.

she quotes extensively from a John Mearsheimer talk in 2019, which argues fairly persuasively that Australia should be more afraid of the US than China. I appreciate his realism about the war the US caused in Georgia, while keeping in mind that he subscribes to the Empire ideology. roughly, he supports the US being the hegemon.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 15 2023 18:34 utc | 28

WTF has gone wrong?

Posted by: jpc | Mar 15 2023 17:21 utc | 5

I seriously believe that the US uses hypnosis or some kind of voodoo to convince their “partners” to do stupid things. There’s simply no other way, you can’t be that dumb to do things like that with full consciousness… :-)

Posted by: Zet | Mar 15 2023 18:35 utc | 29

whoops should read "the war the US caused in Ukraine". there are just too many damn wars to keep track of.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 15 2023 18:38 utc | 30

I'm reading between the lines and I'm hearing....
Nice little country you got here, be a shame if anything happend to it.

And yet again theirs the timing of it you can follow the ball like a bloody tennis match ! Ukraine in reverse gear then we had trouble in Georgia, China steps in and sides with Russia.
Next the bank crises, now this. It's crazy and very, very dangerous.
It's the big picture not the minutiae
That counts. A US game and they are losing.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 15 2023 18:39 utc | 31

Posted by: D | Mar 15 2023 18:24 utc | 26

I remember those idiotic "duck and cover drills" they made us participate in in elementary school.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 15 2023 18:41 utc | 32

re pretzelattack #29

Caitlin expands on her "Australia should be more afraid of the US than China"

Posted by: erichwwk | Mar 15 2023 18:46 utc | 33

Oh and I don't want to worry anyone but I'm on the flight path from America to fairford air bases and I'm hearing those b52 going over my roof about one every half hour. And that's right now.
Please someone tell me I'm wrong. I haven't checked on any sites. Could someone have a look.
Probably paranoia. But I'm gen.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 15 2023 18:48 utc | 34

"What will it take to revers it?"

Financial and physical devastation. With all the anti China propaganda here, Australians are worriedly looking at China and take no notice of the fact that the US is now looting Australia.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 15 2023 18:51 utc | 35

A major US anti-China strategy is photographs of US and allied warships exercising 'Freedom of Navigation" off China in the promotion of a "free and open Indo-Pacific" and of course submarines are not useful in this regard. But they might be useful in a China blockade of Taiwan, which seems to be a leading possibility currently.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 15 2023 18:54 utc | 36

The US is preparing Australia to fight its war against China

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 15 2023 18:55 utc | 37

Australia and Canada are jokes of countries.
Add the EU to the list.
WTF has gone wrong?

Posted by: jpc | Mar 15 2023 17:21 utc | 5

The end of class struggle.

Elections have to be about something. Class struggle is a permanent fissure in society so it is the perfect subject. What makes it perfect is that it is about real interests and that the two classes need each other. All other fissures have problems. The problems of ethnic fissures are well known. Other subjects like the environment have as a problem that they are in essence scientific discussions. That turns elections into a propaganda battle.

Posted by: Wim | Mar 15 2023 19:01 utc | 38

Mark2 no. 35

You're wrong. It's the same one going round in circles. 😂

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Mar 15 2023 19:17 utc | 39

Thusspakezarathustra @ 40 Ha ha very funny, but you could be right, around in circles....inside my head.
A headache like a b52 !

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 15 2023 19:23 utc | 40

oldhippie | Mar 15 2023 18:10 utc | 23

Not intentional. Just delusional. Same as the fall of all empires and civilizations. The politicians reflect the people they supposedly represent. Morons.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 15 2023 19:30 utc | 41

I’m guessing they’re not going to use Chinese steel.

Maybe this is not a submarine deal but a forced manoeuvre to reallocate certain primary production capacity away from China back to five eye states?

Posted by: Johnycomelately | Mar 15 2023 19:35 utc | 42

Posted by: Zet | Mar 15 2023 18:35 utc | 30

It's another aspect of this:

Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Mar 15 2023 19:49 utc | 43

Yes, the US is planning on Australia to go to war with China. Also, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan. It has all been written down in various Rand and other think tank scenarios.

The war in Ukraine is going well according to their plan to have Russia fight Europe in Ukraine, so why wouldn't they move to their next phase?

"Let's you and him fight Over There". Russia fell for it, I'm sure that Australia, et. al., will also.
Will China?

Posted by: wagelaborer | Mar 15 2023 20:04 utc | 44

Australia is in a heated competition with Taiwan, Japan, and the Phillipines to see who gets the coveted booby prize of being the Ukraine of Asia, when America tries to provoke its next war (against China), just as it is currently doing against Russia.

It's almost hilarious as to how many countries from Europe to Asia actually want to become cannon fodder for the Americans.

So be it; they made their choice.

It will not end well for any of these American proxy nations.

And they shouldn't complain when they reap the whirlwind.

Posted by: ak74 | Mar 15 2023 20:18 utc | 45

Peter AU1 | Mar 15 2023 18:55 utc | 38

thanks for the article. Lots I was not aware of, particularly the corporate side of it.

I don't know if you have seen this map with AUKUS bases in Australia, including six NEW ones projected for the west coast. These do not seem to have any connection with real needs, but they would form the basis of an occupation force, and the nexus of a corporate totalitarian state. Subjugated cities that refuse to pay the Imperial dime would be taken under "supervision for their own good".

Clearly the subs from Perth would be mainly for the Indian Ocean, as the deeper waters would allow them to avoid the shallow passage through the North-PNG(Daru).

Talking of cash, the debt to pay for the Subs which someone has calculated, works out at about 1.5 million dollars per person.

....and there I was thinking if that there was a nuke war I would head for oz, now I won't becoz...

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 15 2023 20:28 utc | 46

thanks b...

same two winners - banking and military industry, and losers - ordinary people in the country of australia and all the world.. and yes - both canada, along with australia and most of europe are vassals of the usa financial system - ponzi scheme... it can't end soon enough...

i agree with oldhippie... it is almost like this an intentional take down of the world -wef, or whatever.. the stupidity defies logic... it is hard to understand this all as a reflection of ignorance, and more willful intent on the part of a small group.. i know.. conspiracy theory territory, but still.. it is off the charts insane!

Posted by: james | Mar 15 2023 20:35 utc | 47

Global Times has published a brutal editorial that damns everything about this event and deserves to be pasted in full:

The leaders of the US, Britain and Australia celebrated the unveiling of the AUKUS nuclear submarine plans with great fanfare at the Naval Base in San Diego, California, on Monday. It was a public humiliation to France, which was cheated by them, and a cover-up and deceit to the Australian people, and a kind of bravado to neighboring countries. It was also a blow to the already fragile international nuclear non-proliferation mechanism, and obviously a dangerous move for the entire international community.

According to the agreement, Australia will purchase up to five US nuclear-powered submarines in the next few years, which means that Australia will become the seventh country in the world to have nuclear submarines. The peace and stability of the Indian Ocean and Pacific region will expectedly bear the impact, pressure and risks brought about by this agreement for a long time. Some American media even called it a "milestone." This obvious misnomer has produced ironic effects, but the agreement may indeed become a boundary stone for the US, Britain and Australia to drag the Asia-Pacific region into a "new cold war." It is what everyone is worried about.

In order to obtain the US' nuclear-powered submarines, Australia may have to spend nearly $250 billion. Does Australia have too many mines and is too wealthy? Australia indeed has mines, but life in Australia is not rich for most, and the current economic situation is very bad, with a huge structural budget deficit. $250 billion is roughly equivalent to about two years of public healthcare expenditure of Australia. In order to pay for this huge sum of money, Australia is bound to squeeze social welfare. In other words, the 25 million Australians will eventually have to pay the bill through a certain degree of frugality.

Another question, is Australia in danger without US' nuclear-powered submarines? Can't it survive? Obviously not. Not only does Australia not need them, but it will definitely put itself at risk by buying them. Australia, which is isolated in South Pacific and far away from other hotspots in the region, has a relatively unique geographic advantage. No country will attack or even invade Australia for no reason. Australia has had the conditions to spend its main resources and energy on improving people's livelihood.

Australia's inexplicable sense of insecurity when facing China is basically the result of being spiritually controlled for many years by the US. Australia thinks that it is the "deputy sheriff" of the Asia-Pacific region under Washington, but not to mention that it has no salary, even its police uniforms and firearms have to be bought from the US at a high price. The AUKUS agreement is actually a big trick of the US on Australia. It is equivalent to asking Australia to build a nuclear submarine base to produce its own submarines, but more importantly, to maintain and ensure the nuclear submarines of the US and Britain, and hand them over to be commanded by the US Navy, moreover, the hundreds of billions of dollars need to be paid by Australia itself. The follow-up nuclear submarine equipment, maintenance, related personnel training are an even bigger bottomless hole. Australia is at best a cat's paw which helps the US to get chestnuts from the fire, and it can be regarded as one of the most representative chump in the history of international relations.

In the English context, "white elephant" usually refers to a useless but expensive and eccentric object. It could have been better if the nuclear submarines of the US were just white elephants, but they are also a big ill omen. Canberra bought them back with a huge sum of money and will turn Australia into a haunted house, bringing risk to the whole region and making the years of efforts of South Pacific Countries in building a South Pacific Nuclear Free Zone, which is protected by formal treaty, face the most serious impact. Not only China firmly opposes it, but Southeast Asian countries such as Indonesia and Malaysia are also very dissatisfied. New Zealand directly denies Australia's nuclear submarines' access to its waters. Otherwise, the Australian Defense Minister and Foreign Minister would not have been running around recently, trying to dispel people's concerns about nuclear non-proliferation issues.

On the same day as the three AUKUS countries gathered together, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute released a new report on global arms import and export. The report shows that the US share of global arms exports has increased from 33 percent to 40 percent, and imports to East Asia and certain states in other areas of high geopolitical tension rose sharply. All this is in Washington's calculations. Just look at what America is exporting: weapons to kill, crises of all kinds (the fallout from the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank is still brewing), and the most destructive of all is geopolitical malice, which America uses to spiritually control Australia. [My Emphasis]

Not too long ago China published a long list of Outlaw US Empire crimes and its hegemonic ways. This event will be added to it even if it's eventually rejected by Australians who the Chinese rightfully say don't need it whatsoever. It can be said that the Australian continent's been invaded twice--first by the British and second by the Americans and both have partnered to chain Australians similar to their convict forebearers.

There're a lot of good Aussies here at the bar; I'm very sorry my government has done what is has done.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 15 2023 20:53 utc | 48

My Stonebird | Mar 15 2023 20:28 utc | 48

ooops my bad, sorry
"six projected bases.....west coast". That should have been EAST coast, the one with the most cities, Brisbane included.

Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 15 2023 21:05 utc | 49

Australia only has 30 yrs of iron ore reserves left and the world is phasing out coal. Instead of using those resources to build production capacity in the future they are wasting it on weapons. US won't even look at them after they run out of resources in the future.

US harvested europe with LNG. US is going to harvest Japan, Korea, Taiwan and AU with weapons.

Posted by: Nathan | Mar 15 2023 21:12 utc | 50

Come on now fellas, you're looking at this the wrong way.

This is a very cunning plan by Labor to keep the Yanks onside until the Empire collapses and cannot make good on its threats...

Yeah, I'm only joking.

Posted by: Steve from Oz | Mar 15 2023 21:16 utc | 51

Let's see if I get this right: if the US shoots down a Chinese balloon it's fine; if the Russians down a US spy plane it's illegal. And environmentally unsound.

Posted by: Passerby | Mar 15 2023 21:17 utc | 52

And now you will remember what I posted a year or more ago about why MH-370 went missing.
The Southern Ocean off the south-west of Western Australia is extremely remote, had barely ever been sailed, and had never been mapped.
Australia had just finished building a bathymetric vessel- which by magical coincidence was perfect for deep ocean surveying.
Under CSIRO auspices it was then dispatched for a year to map the Southern Ocean floor “looking” for MH-370.
Relatives who cried the vessel was looking in the wrong location were shouted down as ungrateful swine.
The Southern Ocean mapping data acquired is now being used for the benefit of US nuclear subs that will lurk in that remote region.
IMVHO opinion the U$ will at some point move to cleave Western Australia away from “Australia”.
The state is larger than many nations and has “everything” … oil, diamonds, gold, iron ore, and a large irrigation agriculture region.
By coincidence, the Kimberley was once mooted as a “homeland” for the Jews, before British Palestine was chosen…..
Learning this ‘fun fact” of obscure Australian history as a teen, I thought it strange.
Now, in cusp-of-dotage, I understand. Who wouldn’t want an almost uninhabited, but extremely *extremely* valuably resourced region as a “homeland”.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Mar 15 2023 21:19 utc | 53

I am a citizen of Australia, UK and the US. I have lived in all three. I am leaving Australia next week to live in my ancestral home of Scotland. I am quite old now and walked in the Vietnam peace rallies in California in the late 60's. The US is the evil empire that is drawing the world into a final war. The only way to stop this is to resurrect the peaceful protest marches of the Vietnam era. People from all over the world need to rise up now, protest, strike, barricade, do whatever is necessary to change this current course of arms buildup. We all have to rise up and say peace or this planet is finished. It is beyond pathetic the way that a country like Australia has been manipulated, have they no pride or honor?

Posted by: whitebeach | Mar 15 2023 21:27 utc | 54

An Australian commenting.

The current political leadership cohort in Australia is generally profoundly ignorant of history and geopolitical realpolitik and fully indocrinated into the myth of Anglo-Saxon exceptionalism. We are pathetic vassals of the US hegemon.

Among our foreign policy leaders we have the analogues of the US neocons and Canada's Crystia Freeland. For example, our Foreign Minister, Penny Wong is of half
Malayan-Hakka Chinese ancestry whereby her anti-China bias is analogous in intensity to Freeland's hatred of Russia arising from her Ukraine nationalist ancestry.

Mild dissent against the AUKUS deal is permitted and evident within the comments sections of Australia's MSM, but the following submission of mine was judged unworthy: It is the underlying truth of the matter...

"Prime Minister Albanese was quoted yesterday under this masthead in a related article by Farrah Tomazin:

“What the United States, Great Britain and Australia hold in common is more fundamental and more universal than our shared histories: We are bound, above all, by our belief in a world where the sovereignty of every nation is respected – and the inherent dignity of every individual is upheld.”

In my opinion, Mr.Albanese is at his core a good man. However, he is naive and ill-advised as regards foreign policy and is afflicted, as I was until recently, with a malign psychological conceit.

Here is the bitter truth of it, a truth Mr. Keating is understandably wary of speaking.

What the United States, Great Britain and Australia hold in common is a product of our shared histories: We are bound, above all, by our belief in a world where we, the Anglo-Saxons, are supreme, and all other peoples inferior. Blinded by our exceptionalism and hubris, we hold that our ways are fundamental and universal; that there can be no alternative civilizational systems of culture or governance conducive to human wellbeing and advancement.

We of Australia, the United States of America, Great Britain, Canada and New Zealand are, in our shared core ideology, truly racist. The Chinese, the Russians, the Indians - all non-Anglo-Saxon peoples - are lesser. Ours is the natural 'rules based order'. We make the rules; you follow our orders, or your individual dignity or national sovereignty be damned.

As Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) long ago observed, we are a race of thieves, highwaymen, pirates. Our private creed: "When the Anglo-Saxon wants a thing he just takes it.” Our modus operandi is perfidious subjugation and plunder. We are the 'Empire of Lies'. In our civilizational supremacy, all our actions are justified.

I loath this accursed 'AUKUS' alliance. It doesn't need to be this way. We could and should have an unaligned foreign and defence policy appropriate to our demography and geography. Will Australia awake from its self-delusion? Maybe eventually. I fear, on the evidence, that Prime Minister Albanese and ministers Marles and Wong never will.

There is no foe with imperial ambitions threatening us. Not China. Not Russia. Not any other nation. Through the AUKUS alliance we are confirmed as complicit enemies of humanity and the venal opponents of the historic and inevitable transition towards global multipolarity (as persuasively propounded by Presidents Xi and Putin).

And we are the enemy of our own national security and national interests."

B's question: "What will it take to reverse it?"

The 2021 census has the following self-reported ancestry among tbe Australian population:
57.2% European (including 46% North-West European and 11.2% Southern and Eastern European), 33.8% Oceanian, 17.4% Asian (including 6.5% Southern and Central Asian, 6.4% North-East Asian, and 4.5% South-East Asian), 3.2% North African and Middle Eastern, 1.4% Peoples of the Americas, and 1.3% Sub-Saharan African.

Many of our immigrant population are mini-Freeland-Wongs, in the thrall of the Anglophone western host culture. Maybe enough of them carry sufficient pride in their ancestral culture and have sufficient wariness of the anti-human character of the West for them to have common cause in promoting an unaligned foreign policy that embracea global multipolarity? Maybe us Whities who feel similarly need to step up as independent electoral candidates and provide an avenue for the expression of alternative foreign policy views and projection of political influence at the ballot box.

Posted by: Andrew Celestina | Mar 15 2023 21:31 utc | 55

Whenever I read about aukus I always go back to this video:

Posted by: Al | Mar 15 2023 21:46 utc | 56

Stonebird | Mar 15 2023 20:28 utc | 48

My thought has been that the base reason for this AUKUS is for the US to get a naval base on the Indian ocean. The US warmongers used to use the term 'Asia Pacific' for Obama's pivot on China but I have noticed that has now expanded to the term 'Indo' Pacific region.

As for Australian's, like the Ukroids, they will have to learn the hard way. Talking to family and friends, there is a deep seated racism that wasn't so evident 8-10 years ago which makes anti China propaganda and the demonization of China very effective.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Mar 15 2023 21:50 utc | 57


The rocks in the ground made them rich.

The rocks in their rulers' heads will make them poor.

Posted by: Et Tu | Mar 15 2023 21:51 utc | 58

Apologies to b, but there appears to be an even worse deal that at some point must be reckoned with and is revealed by Michael Hudson's further analysis of the current financial crisis. After his explanation which includes the usual corruption of regulatory agencies, Hudson concludes:

"So the great question – literally the 'bottom line' – is how can the Fed maneuver its way out of the low-interest Quantitative Easing corner in which it has painted the U.S. economy? The longer it and whichever party is in power continues to save FIRE sector investors from taking a loss, the more violent the ultimate resolution must be."

The $250 Billion tagged to Australians will be peanuts compared to the loss required for the Outlaw US Empire's financial system to become rebalanced.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 15 2023 21:58 utc | 59

I can't add much, it's all been said and I agree.
Look at the timing..... this Mondays deal / announcement is there as a deliberate immature reaction to the China brokered deal between Iran and the Saudis.
Also as an immature distraction from the banking crises in US.
Poor Australia to be used as a pawn like this. The US just pinned a target on your back.
China are know fools, they will see it for what it is....
A US 'folly'

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 15 2023 21:59 utc | 60

@JustTruth 24, I am wondering the same thing. This plan is predicated on the assumption the US will remain capable of continuing its imperial meddling around the world. Seems increasingly unlikely to me.

Posted by: Maloyo | Mar 15 2023 22:02 utc | 61

A1 no. 59

Bloody brilliant. 😂😂😂

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Mar 15 2023 22:08 utc | 62

Keating is copping a kicking from presstitutes and stenographers today.
Twitter is a war zone with competing narratives.
Found this tweet that recommended Keating at 7mins in.
Later I’ll watch the whole 60 mins.

7mins 35sec this is the bit that abc cut out.
Why did they do that laura?
Abc cut out parts from the national press clubs interview and you called it " in full"
I dare say thats a lie

Keating makes so many good points.
Tingle (the MC)………… but China! ….

Posted by: Melaleuca | Mar 15 2023 22:12 utc | 63

Australia has been put under calosal pressure to do this deal.

For the secondary countrys around the world, it's a buyers market between doing a deal with the US or Russia/China.

Did they even approach China for a better deal. Now's the time to jump one way or the other.
The world is in balence.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 15 2023 22:21 utc | 64

Guam & US Japanese bases are indefensible, US is strategically creating Oz as the substitute 'cause distance(from China) & forcing Oz to foot the bill and more. It is not just about subs, land based Anti-ship missiles and IMV 'conventional' *cough* land-based ICBMs will follow on deployed in Oz.

Permanent US sovereign basing rights, extra-territorial & extra-judicial/legal rights (See: China Unequal treaties), based nuclear B52s, strategic stealth bombers, drones, strike aircraft, fuel storage & airbases & forward deployed war stocks, permanent & growing US marine deployments/basing, numerous naval bases hijacked for Empires purposes, new naval bases to be built purely to serve US Navy, massive sovereign US infrastructure. It's defense, military, intelligence & security services long wholly suborned. Guam/Japan alternate, build-up & backstop in stages.

Oz is being prepped as a Strategic discard-able sacrificial plausibly-deniable first-strike platform against China, where if it all goes bad, there is little US cost (CONUS) & Oz gets erased, scratch one pawn, IMV.

US has turned the country into a masked one party state(Deep State controlled), with two faux factions(See: USA), utterly suborned to the US, dominated by US multinational corporations openly & behind the scenes, political, institutional & economic capture, deliberately de-industrialized, its resources extracted for foreign corporate benefit for pennies on the dollar, cemented by the bloodless coup of '75.

Oz has not been sovereign since, other than minor permissive domestic matters. It's military & foreign policy explicitly directed by US, by telecon memo & cable. Utterly, wholly suborned 5-Eyes vassal.

An Anglo-saxon minority dominated, racist, extractive pseudo slave plantation. Aussie's exploiting different classes/levels of their own populace & highly dependent on large temporary rightless(sic) foreign workers heavily exploited rolling intake, whilst not realizing they (Aussies) as a whole are beholden & exploited as an extractive resource nation pseudo slave plantation by US. It all belong to & for the benefit of US.

Their Airborne Battalion is currently being used in a recruitment advert based on Army riot control/civil disturbance/martial law drills & exercises ... why ?

No offense intended. Loved all the time was stationed/deployed there, and the typical 'larrikin'(?), down to earth(grounded), 'skip'.



AZgeopolitics (azmilitary11) (Telegram)(Private)

UK believes that a possible conflict in the Indo-Pacific region may have more serious consequences than the situation in Ukraine — strategy document

The UK expects further deterioration of the global security situation

The UK government expects the global security situation to deteriorate further, warning that the period of instability could last more than a decade. This is stated in the updated version of the Comprehensive Review of Security, Defense and Foreign Policy of the United Kingdom published on Monday.

"There is a growing likelihood that the international security situation will deteriorate further in the coming years, and the threat from states will grow and diversify in Europe and beyond. The risk of escalation is now higher than at any time in recent decades, and a growing number of modern weapons systems have been developed, are being tested or are being put into service," the 63-page document says.

"The transition to a multipolar, divided and contested world happened faster and turned out to be more definitive than expected. We are in a situation of increased risk and volatility, which is likely to last after the 2030s," the review says.

Document Link: Integrated Review Refresh 2023 - Responding to a more contested & volatile world - PDF

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 15 2023 22:22 utc | 65

Hi B, I wanted to post this on the open thread, but seeing as it is Oz-related I will post it here. Please forgive the flippant presentation, the state of Australian media is so awful today that our best journalist is in fact a comedian who receives tip-offs and leaks and sometimes even does his own investigations, but is still essentially a comedian.

However, this story, about sadistic soldiers in the Australian army who enjoyed murdering Afghan civilians, is truly horrific and gives some insight into the Australian military tradition (cw: no gory visuals that I recall, although I wasn’t watching the entire time, but the subject-matter being discussed is definitely very disturbing).

Posted by: TomH | Mar 15 2023 22:23 utc | 66

As even the pro Ukranazi Canazidan "journalist" Gwynne Dyer said a couple of years ago, if Amerikastan someday decides to invade Mars, Australistan will send troops to join in the invasion. For all their pretence of love of independence and freedom, Australistanis are slaves by nature. They need a master to cling to, and like what Malcolm X caked "house negroes", their owner's affairs are now important and pressing to them than their own. Once you get to know Australistanis well - and I have relatives in Sydney and Goulburn - you won't be surprised why Australistani war criminals were shooting Afghan farmers for Amerikastan or not so long before that hacking the ears off murdered Vietnamese farmers also for Amerikastan. That any deal will be harmful for Australistan is immature; grovelling servility to the slaveowner is the pony thing that matters.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Mar 15 2023 22:26 utc | 67

*That any deal will be harmful for Australistan is immaterial; grovelling servility to the slaveowner is the only thing that matters.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Mar 15 2023 22:28 utc | 68

@ Passerby | Mar 15 2023 21:17 utc | 54 quote -

"Let's see if I get this right: if the US shoots down a Chinese balloon it's fine; if the Russians down a US spy plane it's illegal. And environmentally unsound."

you have it exactly right, lol... up is down and down is up in ''biden in wonderland world''...

Posted by: james | Mar 15 2023 22:36 utc | 69

Let's concentrate this down to one single simple question.....

Did they have a choice ?

That right there is a whole new level capitalist facism.
And we're right there now.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 15 2023 22:41 utc | 70

Stonebird @ 48, 51:

Don't worry, we will surely have more US military bases in Western Australia, perhaps near Port Hedland and Broome. There are also US Marines stationed as a rotational force at Darwin in the north. Adelaide and Hobart (in Tasmania) are sure to be dragged into the developing spider's web of US / UK military bases as Antarctica and its resources become more important to the survival of the Anglosphere as it is currently constituted.

Karlof1 @ 50:

You need not apologise, we Australians may be "spiritually controlled" by the US but our own prejudices and biases vis-a-vis the peoples of East Asia and Southeast Asia, and the conditions in which we were British colonies and (to a large extent) still remain separate so our sense of Australia as one country (and not as separate states under a thin umbrella, exposed by the overall Australian response to the COVID pandemic) is weak. Canberra has not done much over the past century to instil a sense of being one nation in Australians and poor political leadership over that period (and in particular, over the past 20+ years since we had Paul Keating as PM) has been at fault, among other things. Our main political parties have been captured by Washington DC and several of our politicians past and present (including a former prime minister) in fact have been US assets and informants.

Andrew Celestina @ 58:

"Many of our immigrant population are mini-Freeland-Wongs ..."

You're not far wrong, your statement is actually very mild. I have family members whose views towards China are fascist and they are even ashamed of having Chinese background. We all know very little of our Chinese culture, history and heritage.

Many migrants who came to Australia after WW2 were also secretly members of fascist organisations in their home countries and may have even been assisted in coming here, in the expectation perhaps that they would eventually return home as intel assets. To take one example, a number of Croatian migrants to Australia and elsewhere (like Bolivia apparently) were former Ustasha members.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Mar 15 2023 22:46 utc | 71

Followup to @ Outraged | Mar 15 2023 22:22 utc | 68

Here is the Australian Army Airborne Battalion used in a recruitment advert based on Army riot control/civil disturbance/martial law drills & exercises

Australian Army Ad - twatter (not an endorsement of the politician)

A twatter search on "Australian Army Ad" will generate diverse observations/commentary, international coverage ...

US devoted deputy poodle sheriff in Asia-Pac since WWII switch from British Empire vassal to US Empire vassal.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 15 2023 22:52 utc | 72

Never had a problem with Aussies, or Kiwis for that matter. I just love the New Zealand Accent, and the Australians have the same wind up sense of humour as Scousers.

OK many of my friends moved from Oldham to Australia and New Zealand, when I was a kid...

The cultural connections are maintained

Nothing at all to do with Americans

The entire world wants Americans to go home

Go on - Get Off off our lands

Go home and kill some more Indigenous American Indians if you like.

Stop Killing Us.

Go Home

We don't like you



Posted by: tonyopmoc | Mar 15 2023 22:53 utc | 73

@68 outraged

I agree on your first points about Guam and Japan being indefensible.

I think Aust is a great 51st state.
Lots of room and minerals and sun.
Just like we Americans like.
Between Canada and Australia and flyover, we are big. The rest will be military bus stops.

Posted by: 44Cadillac | Mar 15 2023 23:00 utc | 74

So Paul Keating speaks...

Waiting on YOU Paul Keating to convene a moratorium march for a Nuclear Free Nation.

Take a lesson from the 1960's comrade Keating and get the Churches and secular peace makers together and call a meeting in every city square. Or has the Labor Party cult chained your feet?

Shadowbanned... great stuff >applause :)

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Mar 15 2023 23:01 utc | 75

Not the first time the US MIC screwed the Aussies. They buried the remains of their useless F111 fleet in 2011.

Posted by: ralph conner | Mar 15 2023 23:05 utc | 76

It's probably the most stupid decision Australia has made in more than 100 years, maybe the worst in history. The three puppet amigos Albanese, Marles, and Wong, have made Australia the potential Ukraine of the South Pacific, and they have wrung the final death knell for Australian sovereignty. It's UStralia now.

Exactly like Germany and the useless puppet Scholtz has done over Ukraine, they willingly destroy their own country's economy and even more: the possible loss of the territory entirely as a sacrifice for the US if a full war breaks out due to US belligerence and provocation of China.

Albanese has deceived the entire country: many of us thought Labor might be better than the Liberals given Whitlam and Keating's heritage, but Albanese and his party are nothing but a bunnies and fakes who also seem to think Britain and the US should continue to run the the imperialist-colonialist white man rule of the waves rather than devise a foreign policy that is genuinely Australian and fits the geography the country actually resides in. What utter fools. I think this also signals to indigenous Australians that Albanese is really on the white colonialist's side and understands nothing about the multipolar push from the Global South that is happening as we speak, and will continue to happen.

Australia is now even further like the US in that whichever side of government gets elected out of the two major parties we get the same neocon and deep state control. I will never cast a vote in Labor's direction again (nor Liberal), they have deceived every Australian who voted for them.

Posted by: George | Mar 15 2023 23:06 utc | 77

The French subs were ready to go. It is my belief that the Obiden Junta, at the behest of their Chinese Owners, big-footed the deal in order to leave Australia without new subs for years.

Posted by: The Gipper Lives | Mar 15 2023 23:09 utc | 78

Last I heard, Albanese also went silent on Julian Assange after supposedly making an overture (I seriously doubt it was any sort of "demand") to Biden. The guy sounds like either a major pushover or a controlled asset.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 15 2023 23:12 utc | 79

B's question: "What will it take to reverse it?"

Eliminate the Nation State system.. all of the corruption happens at layers higher than the voters. The politicians the Oligarchs, their corporations and the international organizations have a mafia.
Intelligence services & think tanks
International organization
Global corporation
corruption above

competition below
Tax payers

Posted by: snake | Mar 15 2023 23:22 utc | 80

Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 15 2023 23:12 utc | 81

"The guy sounds like either a major pushover or a controlled asset."

Yep. Prime Minister Albanese: 'nice guy'; naive; in areas such as foreign policy beyond his limited curiousity and intellect, a major pushover; and now by his actions, politically locked-in as controlled asset of US.

Posted by: Andrew Celestina | Mar 15 2023 23:28 utc | 81

i have an idea - the politics of fear makes governing easier, australian "angst" at its best!

but technically, submarines will be overprized money coffins in 10 years - cheap drones in swarms will locate and flatten them! like tanks today!

Posted by: gpc | Mar 15 2023 23:32 utc | 82

I always held that the Western elite will go like a Supernova. It will do us all in before it dies.

Posted by: Sektion2B | Mar 15 2023 23:47 utc | 83

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 15 2023 17:33 utc | 13

I love it when b does an Australia-focused post. It brings out all the know-all dickheads who have zero understanding of Australian culture or history. It is easy to criticise our actions here but our bureaucracy, defence establishment and political class are so riddled with US and UK shills that we are paralysed. America will burn Australia to the ground rather than let us pursue a sovereign path in our own interests.

Posted by: Patroklos | Mar 15 2023 23:50 utc | 84

Erect White Supremacy

Beware imperial bully dicks
floating round like dead sticks,
Keep yer wallet open and handy
Unka Scrooge loves his candy
is designed to rort us,
Squeeze yer mates is the golden rule
to top up the cash in the swimming pool,
Keep friends close and enemies near,
divide the workers, greed feasts on fear,
Remember and learn from history -
they don't care about you or me.

Posted by: Jin | Mar 15 2023 23:50 utc | 85

I said from the very beginning that this entire "deal" was a smokescreen to cover the ceding of control of the Perth naval base over to the US Navy. They will pay a peppercorn "rent" to base their nuclear submarines in Perth, and not a single Australian will be allowed to step onto that base without first seeking the permission of the Pentagon.

Everything that has happened since then has reinforced my opinion. The "2nd hand" Virginia class subs will NEVER be sold to the Australians. NEVER. At best they will pay an exorbitant price for the Americans to graciously allow the Australian navy ensign to fly from the mast, but the crew will be American. The Captain will be an American. The boat will go only where the Pentagon orders it to go, and if the Australians are lucky they'll be informed after the fact that it has set sail.

As for the follow-up Frankensubmarines, well, gosh, pull the other one, it's got bells on it.

There is zero chance that those will ever be built. Zero. Zip. Nada. Zilch.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Mar 16 2023 0:02 utc | 86

When this drone spying occurs again I don't think Russia will waste any words.

The US is suicidally dangerous. Hubris is a killer.

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Mar 16 2023 0:04 utc | 87

Posted by: 44Cadillac | Mar 15 2023 23:00 utc | 77:

I agree on your first points about Guam and Japan being indefensible.

If war breaks out between AUKUS or Quad with China, the first thing China would do is to wipe out ALL Empire/Japanese military bases and installations in West Pacific in the first few hours, and they have both the technical capability as well as the resources to do this. That means all of Japanese/Korean/Okinawa/Guam bases, ports, and runways. Japanese will be left to suck their thumbs in tears, sullenness, and destitute while Guam/Taiwan/Okinawa will be occupied. Taiwan/Okinawa (all the way to Kyushu) will be used as the island-chain defense barrier against East Pacific air/sea threats while Guam will be used as the launch pad for a large enough force to occupy Western Australia. The few million Aussies will be asked (and allowed) to move east at their conveniences, or else. That would likely take a few months. From thence the Sino-Quad War can drag on for as long as China has the patience to engage in right/wrong/he-said/she-said propaganda squeamish. The supply line logistics from SCS is shorter than from Hawaii to Brisbane. Battles can go on, on Aussie grounds, just as SMO is fought on Ukrie grounds. China would, of course, have to endure the sanctions!!! Shucks! But a reasonable price to pay, don't y'all think?

If asked how can China invade/occupy Aussie ground, China would be surprised by the notion that one is not allowed to fight on enemies' ground. With the Kyushu/Okinawa/Taiwan/SCS Island chain configuration and total control of SCS, I believe the Aussie subs would be fishing east of the International dateline, or west of Mumbai in Indian Ocean.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Mar 16 2023 0:04 utc | 88

Adding to my post #89:

If the Empire start using East Japan ports for military supply for counter attack, then Honshu will be another battle ground, just like Donbas is right now.

Shoot! There are lots of 'what ifs'.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Mar 16 2023 0:07 utc | 89

The analogy for Australia is Germany. We are a close ally with enormous potential for regional power. Just as the idea of rapprochement between Germany and Russia via energy was an anathema to the State dept, so too close trading ties between Australia and China scare the US. Like Germany we are waking up to what's in our long-term best interests—and the US is an obstacle to that.

If Australia had a Nordstream pipeline it would be blown up in 3..2..1.. boom.

Posted by: Patroklos | Mar 16 2023 0:14 utc | 90

Another clarification: My opinion was based on a war to occur in a year or two. Now if the war is delayed until, say, 10 years from now, I think most of North America above the San Diego/Arizona/N Mex/Texas line will also be battle grounds

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Mar 16 2023 0:19 utc | 91

The smell of kangaroos is the smell of Albanese.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 16 2023 0:32 utc | 92

Live in West Australia - everyone I know is ropeable about this deal - no one voted for it, there are far more pressing issues internally in Australia which people thought they were voting for when the current government was voted in - it's the raving neocons in parliament and the MSM driving all this with the full backing of the US and the piss weak Prime Minister and his cabinet.
Most people are disgusted, but, since when has a western government cared about them the last few decades!

Posted by: Jon Liddle | Mar 16 2023 0:41 utc | 93

George (80) - I totally agree. There are a large number who feel the same way!

Posted by: Jon Liddle | Mar 16 2023 0:48 utc | 94

#PekingPaul is trendy on twitter. Guess someone got control of the algorithm.

“Peking Paul.”
That’s the new nickname of our former Prime Minister.
Paul Keating is barracking for China - and wants Australia to turn our backs on our oldest allies - the UK and US.

The media know to whom they must kowtow.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Mar 16 2023 1:14 utc | 95

So interesting.

The current peace time all volunteer RAN. Inclusive of a large number RN Jack Tars. Numerous ranks from the lowest AB's.Up to the rank of Lt-Commanders. These imported RN "Jack Tars" or limeys or pommies. Are the surface ship free brethren of the ever declining poorly maintained and serviced RN surface fleet. In addition, the RAN also plays host to a smaller number of Kiwi trainee Jack Tars. as well.

Now the actual total number of peace time Oz blue water sailors is approximately 12,000 men and women. Of that numbers less than 200 men and women sardines are assigned to the six strong quiet and very deadly 45 man Collins Class conventional DE submarines. In short just adequate to man four out of six Collins Class submarines. If one would use the RAN fleet submarine office staff. This means only two out of five UK/USSA nuke submersible play toys could be manned at any one time. A professional naval seagoing submarine sardine is a very rare breed.

It is common knowledge both the UK/USSA nuke powered Uboats! Require a minimum peacetime crew of 110 hot bunking sardines.

Oz has on a trillion plus open ended air dollar order. For five foreign designed made and assembled in OZ Nuke Rust buckets. That revised submarine sardine scheme to waste taxpayer funds. Was initiated the current Dumb&dumber retarded opposition. This opposition is willing to tell extreme lies to the dominant Murdoch Media at the drop of the hat. Murdoch principally controls basically 80% of the entire Oz radio/tv/print press.

The very same imbeciles, wankers and retards who did not pay the billion Oz real dollar tax payer slugged for more money cancellation fee to the Frog Navy either. The lying twat Peter Dutton. Will not answer all questions to exposes his daily 'DJT STYLE' lies. Tragic really!

As to how down under in Oz can the RAN possible man the new five nuke play toys. Given the much depleted non conscripted all volunteer RAN numbers. Is very questionable indeed. Will the RAN resort to hiring under trained pirates based USSA PMC' naval sardines???????????

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Mar 16 2023 1:28 utc | 96

twitter... a complete tool for the empire...

Posted by: james | Mar 16 2023 1:30 utc | 97

My late father told me long ago that Britain considered the name, "Freeland", for the penal colony now known as Australia. That would yield the acronym for the above alliance, FUKUS. Rather more appropriate I think.

Posted by: jfrchitect | Mar 16 2023 1:46 utc | 98

Between Canada and Australia and flyover, we are big. The rest will be military bus stops.

Posted by: 44Cadillac | Mar 15 2023 23:00 utc | 77

Underappreciated point.

The USSR was 22.5M km2. Then it was surrendered by traitors and now Russia is only 17M km2.

But the Anglo-Saxon empire was always bigger -- between the US, Canada, Australia, the UK and NZ it is 27.5M km2. And it didn't fall apart.

Also, Australia is no stranger to being used for military purposes -- the UK did a dozen nuclear tests there in the 1950s. When Australia was supposedly an independent country...

It's probably the most stupid decision Australia has made in more than 100 years, maybe the worst in history. Posted by: George | Mar 15 2023 23:06 utc | 80

Who is the head of state of Australia?

Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 16 2023 1:54 utc | 99

Outraged and Biswapriya Purkayast,

You two must be neighbours in Utopia. What country is it you live in, I'd like to move with my family and share your perfect land and it's peoples.

Posted by: Menz | Mar 16 2023 2:23 utc | 100

next page »

The comments to this entry are closed.