David E. Sanger - The guy that pretty much single-handedly promoted the "Iran nuclear weapons program" bullshit constantly in the New York Times.

There are some media personalities who need to be "taken out" along with a lot of the neocons, MIC controllers, bankers, etc.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 16 2023 10:30 utc | 1

They repeatedly lie.
Because their media consumers consume without comment.
There's no investigative reporting anymore in msm

Just emotional opinions based on press releases.

Posted by: jpc | Mar 16 2023 10:34 utc | 2

Microsoft is a major military contractor to the Kiev regime

https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2022/11/03/our-tech-support-ukraine/

https://fortune.com/2023/02/23/ukraine-war-top-private-donors-microsoft-google/

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 16 2023 10:35 utc | 3

I agree with Andrei's take on an earlier discussion in which he referenced b and MoA in approving terms:

I want to reiterate my position here: ANY, I underscore, ANY Western MSM ranging from BBC and Financial Times to WSJ, NYT and MSNBC is a propaganda outlet tasked with disseminating lies and fake "facts". Most people who work there, they are either psychopaths, or down right evil. Few ones who still retain some redeeming human qualities, work there after making the deal with own consciousness out of pure material (mortgage, car payments, life style) or even fear (family, own well-being etc.), or lack of any useful professional skills reasons. They are also slaves of the circumstances and only very few of them have enough integrity to challenge the lies, including by means of declaring that "I am not going to do this shit anymore". So, Bernhard counters this BS with a purely professional approach (I would have done the same)...

But this is the whole issue, honest reporting and knowledge of all relevant facts is not just not in the plans, it is physically impossible even if to assume that some people in MSM would want to report thing right and try to fight own biases the way real journalists are supposed to do. Simplest example? Sy Hersh, he repeats the same utterly incompetent BS about Holodomor, which is a mathematical and demographic impossibility, same goes even for highly respected by me Douglas Macgregor who speaks about "a million Red Army soldiers" executed by "Stalin's hedge detachments (zagradotryads)", when in reality their main task was anything BUT executing anyone, unless we are talking about open panic-mongers and saboteurs. That is why the number of "executed" is two orders of magnitude smaller than Macgregor's "million".

But in the world where such grotesque lies continue to perpetuate, anything is possible.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 16 2023 10:36 utc | 4

Aktualisiert am 15. März 2023, 21:37 Uhr
Quelle: ZEIT ONLINE

The crash of a U.S. surveillance drone over the Black Sea after an encounter with Russian fighter jets was probably not intentional, according to U.S. assessments. This was said by State Department spokesman Ned Price in Washington. Administration spokesman John Kirby at the same time urged Russia to exercise greater caution when flying in international airspace.

Russia's Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and his U.S. counterpart Lloyd Austin spoke by phone on the issue. The initiative came from the U.S. government, according to the Russian Defense Ministry. It did not initially provide further details.

According to its own statements, the government in Moscow wants to recover the aircraft. It blamed the U.S. for the incident. Presidential Office spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Russian state television, "Maybe those who are not entitled to it should not have flown there, then everything would have been clean."

The U.S. presidential office had earlier said the drone might not be recovered. The Black Sea was very deep at the crash site, Kirby said.

Ukraine, meanwhile, accused Russia of trying to draw other parties into the war.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Will Ukraine now put "Zeit Online" on its Russian propaganda death list?

Posted by: theresamarquesa | Mar 16 2023 10:36 utc | 5

As for whether Russia will use "cyberwar" as part of any "offensive" - of course they will. Why wouldn't they?

But what these idiots want to claim is that the Russian government will sic civilian hacker groups on the West. For this they have no evidence, let alone proof. It should be obvious that pro-Russia Russian hacking groups - not to mention pro-Russian hacking groups elsewhere in the world, say, in China, which has a massive number of hackers - will be perfectly happy to conduct their operations against the West. That doesn't mean the Russian government is directing them.

Attribution remains an issue in cybersecurity. In hacking as in espionage, the amount of confusion, obfuscation, and misdirection employed is massive and makes it almost impossible to be sure of anything. "Threat analysis" is a bullshit subset of cybersecurity with little credibility and little value in terms of actually improving cybersecurity for organizations. But it's an easy way to generate revenue by spreading FUD. And Microsoft has always been the primary source of FUD in the computer industry. That's another organization that needs to be "taken out".

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 16 2023 10:44 utc | 6

Well, looks like the goddamn filter has decided I'm spamming. Good night.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 16 2023 10:45 utc | 7

And as usual comments are not enabled (0700 on the east coast)

Posted by: Bart Hansen | Mar 16 2023 11:08 utc | 8

'Microsoft' describes Clint's brain.

Posted by: Gerry Bell | Mar 16 2023 11:36 utc | 9

Is it possible that bots have completely taken over The New York Times? The name "Clint Watts" does look pretty suspicious; it brings to mind a humanoid with a vacuum in the space where a CPU should be located in its head.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Mar 16 2023 11:51 utc | 10

That being said, MSM reporters do not write outrageous spelling mistakes in their headlines :-)

Posted by: Stephane | Mar 16 2023 12:05 utc | 11

That being said, MSM reporters do not write outrageous spelling mistakes in their headlines :-)
Posted by: Stephane | Mar 16 2023 12:05 utc | 10

Don't write objectives facts either
I can get over spellings in a good article.

Posted by: jpc | Mar 16 2023 12:24 utc | 12

some other 'reporters' are indeed producing nothing but a constant stream of the most stinking refuse ever.

Gotta make a living. Journalism is a business, usually advertising supported though NYT digital version largely subscriber paid. But even if advertising supported, no advertisers if no readers, so in either case, gotta give the readers what they want to hear. If readers want truth, give 'em truth. If readers want pleasant sounding lies, give 'em lies.

Also, be thankful that journalism is still somewhat connected to reality because of humans in the loop somewhere. As ChatGPT starts to replace human reporters/writers, disconnect with reality will become much larger.

Posted by: Revelo | Mar 16 2023 12:33 utc | 13

"The Just Won't Stop - NYT Pushes New False Claims..."

No, those are definitely not the just. You might with some justification call them the unjust or maybe the evil, they are not just.

Posted by: Max | Mar 16 2023 12:55 utc | 14

Freight Train Carrying Corn Syrup Derails in Arizona

The train’s operator said no hazardous materials were involved in the derailment, near the California and Nevada border.

A freight train that derailed in western Arizona on Wednesday night was carrying corn syrup, its operator said, hours after a report indicated that hazardous materials were on board.

The accident near the town of Topock, Ariz., occurred less than six weeks after a train derailment in Ohio released toxic chemicals and prompted a national conversation about railroad safety. In Wednesday night’s derailment, the Mohave County Sheriff’s Office said there had been hazardous materials on board the train operated by BNSF, briefly raising fears of another airborne toxic event.

But in a statement early Thursday, a spokeswoman for BNSF said that the train had been carrying corn syrup when it derailed around 7:40 p.m.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/16/us/train-derails-arizona.html

Maybe it was "toxic corn syrup" ... how hazardous is corn syrup ... The NYT has become a joke of a media outlet .... move on ...

I can't even trust the 'gardening section' ... let alone any 'newz' .. and it doesn't even have a gardening section! ... move on again ...

Posted by: Don Firineach | Mar 16 2023 13:24 utc | 15

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 16 2023 10:30 utc | 1

The NYT has fired people for reporting fabrications as news, but not when the "reporter" in question is lying about US foreign policy. Look at how long they kept Judith Miller on staff.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Mar 16 2023 13:37 utc | 16

Jeebus, that's some revolving door that Mr. Watt's goes through - FBI, Alliance for Securing 'Democracy,' MSNBC, and now Microsoft. In other words, what the mainstream media considers a credible source.

Posted by: Mike R | Mar 16 2023 13:46 utc | 17

Microsoft’s Digital Threat Analysis Center.

Well, they could make a good start by examining their own codebase for “digital threats”. Perhaps updates wouldn’t then repeatedly drop printers off the network every time...

Microsoft is a major military contractor to the Kiev regime

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 16 2023 10:35 utc | 3

Does this come under the heading of ‘more Western junk fobbed off on Ukraine’, I wonder?

Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 16 2023 13:55 utc | 18

US releases video of Russian jet dumping fuel on its drone -> https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/world/pentagon-shows-footage-of-aircraft-dumping-fuel-on-us-drone/ They're trying to generate more consent.

Posted by: ZimInSeattle | Mar 16 2023 13:59 utc | 19

New York Times, Mar 16 2023
Moscow also appears to be stepping up influence operations to weaken European and U.S. support for sending more aid to the Ukrainian government.

How exactly do those influence operations work when Russian media is blocked in here?

Posted by: Vikichka | Mar 16 2023 14:02 utc | 20

America has come of the rails never mind the corn syrup.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 16 2023 14:04 utc | 21

Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 16 2023 13:55 utc | 16

More a question of using Azure Cloud Servers to port the entire data set of the Ukrainian population coded through the digital system DIAA onto servers administered by USA........

https://www.usaid.gov/news-information/press-releases/jan-18-2023-us-supported-e-government-app-accelerated-digital-transformation-ukraine-now-ukraine-working-scale-solution-more-countries

YouTube channel "Redacted" had a programme about this very issue........

Then the integration of Starlink and the Azure Cloud Servers permits Ukraine to integrate data across the battlefield

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 16 2023 14:21 utc | 22

The NYT's and every other MSM media outlet get their "stories" directly from the State Dept. daily as propaganda scripts they need to read from. MSM strictly reports what they are provided by the US govt. Same applies to EU MSM like BBC and Der Spiegel. MSM=NATO.

Posted by: JustTruth | Mar 16 2023 14:28 utc | 23

Azure Cloud Servers permits Ukraine to integrate data across the battlefield
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 16 2023 14:21 utc | 20

---

The drone Share Point Wars have begun.

Posted by: too scents | Mar 16 2023 14:38 utc | 24

Mark2 | Mar 16 2023 14:04 utc | 19

America has come of the rails never mind the corn syrup.

Brilliant !

Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Mar 16 2023 14:40 utc | 25

Why does the US appear to be acting insane? Here's a speculation.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/10/20/141544135/look-around-1-in-10-americans-take-antidepressants#:~:text=About%2011%20percent%20of%20people,for%20Disease%20Control%20and%20Prevention.

11% of the US are on anti-depressants. Add on marijuana, CBD, fentanyl and so on. This is way beyond much of the world.
I don't have to be a medical professional to point out that suicidal ideation and impulsive behavior are published side effects.
Why worry about debts? Let's bomb Russia or China. Why worry about anything?

If you get enough people to think this way, it drifts towards being 'normal', even if you aren't on these drugs. Even if you don't favor this hypothesis, you must admit that something feels very, very wrong. This why Ukraine and the South China Sea are so dangerous. As tensions build up to the skies, it would only take one person to trigger disaster.

Posted by: Eighthman | Mar 16 2023 14:40 utc | 26

"Another US train derails," this time in the great state of Arizona.

Not a train thing. Not an infrastructure thing. Even that's microcosmic. The whole country's been coming off the rails since 1963. Wars, wages, morals and brains.

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Mar 16 2023 14:44 utc | 27

re: New False Claims

. . . .from Kyiv Independent
Investigation: Leaked document exposes Kremlin's 10-year plan to undermine Moldova
by Anna Myroniuk
Editor's note: This story is a collaboration between the Kyiv Independent and media partners, including Delfi Meedia (Estonia), Expressen (Sweden), Dossier Center (U.K.), Rise Moldova, Frontstory, VSquare (Poland), Süddeutsche Zeitung, Westdeutscher Rundfunk, Rundfunk WDR, Norddeutscher Rundfunk (Germany), and Yahoo News (U.S.).
"The Kyiv Independent doesn’t publish the leaked document itself to prevent it from being traced to the source.". . .here

Anna Myroniuk -- Head of investigations
Anna Myroniuk is the head of investigations at the Kyiv Independent. Anna has run investigative projects on human rights, healthcare and illicit trade. She investigated presidents and oligarchs. She has written for New York Times, Washington Post, Coda Story and OCCRP. Anna holds a Masters in Investigative Journalism from the City University of London. She is a Chevening Scholar, a finalist of the 2020 Thomson Foundation Young Journalist Award, an honoree of the 2022 Forbes 30 Under 30 Europe Media & Marketing list, the runner-up in the investigative reporting category of the 2022 European Press Prize, and the finalist of the 2022 National Investigative Journalism Award of Ukraine.

Anna Myroniuk | Royal United Services Institute - RUSI here
The Royal United Services Institute, registered as Royal United Service Institute for Defence and Security Studies and formerly the Royal United Services Institute for Defence Studies, is a British defence and security think tank. It was founded in 1831 by the Duke of Wellington, Sir Arthur Wellesley.
Located in: Banqueting House, Address: 123 Pall Mall, London. . .wikipedia

Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 16 2023 14:45 utc | 28

1. The proverbial 4th estate (aka corporate media) in the US is dominated by 6 large corporations- National Amusements, Disney, Time Warner, Comcast, News Corp and Sony; with combined net worth exceeding $500 billion. Like other large corporations, media conglomerates have the same class interests as Wall St and thus serve as the ‘ministry of propaganda’ to promote policies that increase corporate power and profits and maintain US global hegemony. The paper of record (NYT) and Washington Post are little more than sounding boards for the US ruling elite. David Sanger is chief Washington correspondent for the NYT and also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), whose members include corporate executives, bankers, and other representatives of the ruling elite. Any reporter who steps out of line- i.e., criticizes the functioning of the US empire is immediately reprimanded and/or fired.
2. Independent journalists, like Sy Hersh, who write pieces challenging corporate control or threatening US global power are either ignored or dismissed outright. They have gone further with Hersh, subjecting him to character assassination, promoting ‘conspiracy theories’, being senile and corrupt and an ‘apologist’ for Putin and Assad.
3. Any reporter working for corporate media, who steps out of line- i.e., criticizes the functioning of the US empire is immediately reprimanded and/or fired.
i) Reporter Emily Wilder was fired from AP because she had posted pro-Palestinian material on social media. (See- The Real Problem with the AP’s Firing of Emily Wilder- When one young journalist was fired, the incident revealed a problem deeper than bad social media policies. By Janine Zacharia May 26, 2021; https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/05/26/emily-wilder-fired-ap-490892)
ii) In 1996, investigative reporter Gary Webb published a series of articles entitled ‘’Dark Alliance’ in the San Jose Mercury News, which linked crack cocaine trade in LA with the Nicaraguan Contra rebels and CIA. Not surprisingly, Webb’s story was met with outrage by MSM outlets such as the LA Times and Washington Post. Reminds me of the quote from Hamlet by William Shakespeare- ‘The lady doth protest too much, methinks’.
Webb committed suicide in 2004. (See- How the Cia Watched Over the Destruction of Gary Webb- Freshly-released CIA documents show how the largest U.S. newspapers helped the agency contain a groundbreaking exposé. By Ryan Devereaux The Intercept Sept 25, 2014; https://theintercept.com/2014/09/25/managing-nightmare-cia-media-destruction-gary-webb/.

Posted by: Paul | Mar 16 2023 14:49 utc | 29

ZiminSeattle no. 17

Now showing on a TV screen near you.
(It's the same video everywhere)
Good manoeuvring though on behalf of the "real" pilot.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Mar 16 2023 14:51 utc | 30

Agree that he has a record of lying for money (my personalized description of his former activities) but I think that this time he has stated the obvious.

Of course the Russians are going to use cyberattacks during their offensive. They would be idiots if they didn't.

Even a blind pig can find the occasional acorn.

He is still a POS but this time he got paid for stating the obvious.

Posted by: Degringolade | Mar 16 2023 14:56 utc | 31

Their lying, we know their lying, they know we know their lying,
But they still keep lying dont they.

What's going on is this....
It's an experiment to produce a false narrative a false History if you like.
The control by media and internet that they undeniable have is nearly overwhelming.
Some times they admit it to,
"We make reality and while you study that one we make another"
Or words to that effect.
It's just one definition of insanity thats the downside.
Here's another lie....
"It's in Americas best interests"

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 16 2023 15:16 utc | 32

I can't remember if it was here or at the saker that I read it. These reporters no longer report the news. They manufacture the news. Most of the garbage they throw at us now, I'm sure a kindergarten class could come up with more believable stories.

Posted by: Watzov | Mar 16 2023 15:30 utc | 33

The US video of the Russian fighter approaching the stealth drone is clearly fake. Firstly, the drone experiences absolutely no wake-turbulance from supposedly close passes. Second, the propeller of the drone at the end of the longer video doesn't have the same yellow markings as at the beginning. I continue to be amazed by the slack effort of the U.S. propagandists wrt quality control.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Mar 16 2023 15:35 utc | 34

thanks b... with a name like Alliance for Securing Democracy - one knows right away it is a complete bullshit set up from the intel agencies, which by the way are now running pretty much everything, but especially the msm...

Posted by: james | Mar 16 2023 15:37 utc | 35

#2
I'm coming to the conclusion that even if everyone in the western world stopped buying newspapers, taking any notice of the MSM, the propaganda machine would still go rolling on and on.
MSM is just another arm of government and journalists are just civil servants. This has been the way sadly since the 1900's, just these days more and more people are awake to this. I remember my father and grandfather would religiously read all the papers everyday and feel well satisfied with themselves. Had they only known what we know now, they would be surely pissed off having wasted a lifetime taking notice of all the lies and bullshit.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Mar 16 2023 15:51 utc | 36

There's a difference between a reporter and a journalist. Reporters describe what's happening and journalists masturbate over it.

Posted by: Squeeth | Mar 16 2023 16:00 utc | 37

As Hudson reports about the Fed's actions painting itself into a corner, the same can be said about the Outlaw US Empire's BigLie Media as poll after poll reveals ever increasing numbers of people find it non-credible. The system is 100% corrupted, and the Rs could easily bring the Ds down but seem unwilling to try--and that's something that's noticed nationwide.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 16 2023 16:01 utc | 38

Watzov @ 31

They manufacture the news. Most of the garbage they throw at us now, I'm sure a kindergarten class could come up with more believable stories.

“A child of five could understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.” ― Groucho Marx

Welcome to the neoliberal era, crapification of everything, everything by definition includes the military, the diplomacy, and the propaganda. The sad part is it doesn't seem to matter, after 40ys the minds a good part of the public is crap, hoping I'm wrong about that or we just go extinct, Mike Judge made a movie about it, Idiocracy.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Mar 16 2023 16:01 utc | 39

Matt taibbi's entire life goal is getting seen by his rich kid peers and this freebie that elon gave him was a chance to salvage what was left of his career, but he has done some good in the past. Some reporters fade faster than others, though.

Posted by: Hrughus | Mar 16 2023 16:04 utc | 40

Stephane @ 10

A typo, not an outrageous spelling mistake (!)

Max @ 12

“They” just won’t stop (A typo, i.e., not “the just won’t stop)
And b. is right, of course: nothing seems to get through to them.

Posted by: onceandfuture | Mar 16 2023 16:08 utc | 41

Two excellent sources:
>"Media Control, The Spectacular Achievements of Propaganda," by Nam Chomsky
>"War Made Easy -- How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death," by Norman Solomon

...from the latter....
Dan Rather, an iconic US journalist: "Look I'm an American. I never tried to kid anybody that I'm some internationalist or something. And when my country is at war, I want my country to win, whatever the definition of 'win' might be. Now, I can't and don't argue that that is coverage without prejudice. About that I am prejudiced." So Dan brought us through the criminal war against Vietnam and the Nixon presidency.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 16 2023 16:10 utc | 42

taibbi himself (along with greenwald) always makes the same mistake: "reporters" or, as they're often called, "journalists" are doing exactly what they're hired and paid to do. to feign surprise at this is like hiring a prostitute and then being shocked that she didn't "really love you" and didn't actually "wanna party".

i make that comparison for an obvious reason but in general: they work for a business and they're selling a product. anyone who reads them expecting serious "objective" reporting is naive to the point of some kind of odd autism. it also keeps stupid fucks like taylor lorenz in the public consciousness where they really, really don't belong as they're basically children who never grew out of their posh high school cliques.

if people don't like that they need to find a way to create better publicly funded news outlets to fill the void (kinda like PBS or the beeb if they hadn't been completely swallowed up by the same corporate monolith.) until then we'll just have a handful of twitter "sleuths" like libsoftiktok. great future there, folks.

Posted by: the pair | Mar 16 2023 16:19 utc | 43

This fits with this topic as it's media related: "Maria Zakharova's response to a media question on the abolition of the Instrument to Support Trade Exchanges with Iran (INSTEX):

Question: How would you comment on the news about the abolition of the Instrument to Support Trade Exchanges with Iran (INSTEX)?

A: The joint statement issued on March 9 by the UK, Germany and France on the decision of the INSTEX shareholder countries to liquidate this mechanism is disappointing. The final line was drawn under the efforts of the European participants of the JCPOA and the European Union to form an infrastructure of international settlements for mutually beneficial cooperation and legitimate trade with Iran, despite the illegitimate sanctions obstacles of the United States.

INSTEX was seen by the international community as one of the practical manifestations of the AMBITIOUS ASPIRATIONS of the European Union to gain true "strategic autonomy" and occupy an independent place in a polycentric world. Today we are forced to state once again that the "united Europe" once again failed the test for political subjectivity, the ability to repel the illegal actions of the United States, which violated its obligations under the JCPOA and UN Security Council Resolution 2231. Now the European Union is limply watching the continuation of the American policy of "maximum pressure" on Iran.

I would not like to think that the founders of INSTEX deliberately created unjustified expectations and misled the business community, primarily in their own countries, which were interested in maintaining stable trade and economic ties with Tehran and needed protection from Washington's attacks. The real reasons that prompted the founders and shareholders of INSTEX to bury their brainchild can only be guessed at. It is quite obvious that the real commercial background here is the least.

Looking back at the four years of INSTEX's existence, we come to the conclusion that the Europeans have in fact succeeded in their main skill – to construct a bureaucratic machine, to distribute offices and positions, and to lay the foundations for the functioning of INSTEX. But, like many other things they have, it looked beautiful only "on paper". This mechanism could not fully earn. Attempts to shift the blame for their failure to Iran sound ridiculous and humiliate those in Europe who were engaged in at least something constructive against the background of the American policy of destruction.

Those who made the decision to liquidate did not have the courage to admit that European business and the banking community did not believe in the ability of Brussels and INSTEX shareholders to create a reliably protected environment for cooperation with Tehran. That is why there was so much uncertainty about the coverage of INSTEX, which in the face of American threats was limited to the supply of humanitarian products, although it was not useful for them. What happened to INSTEX is quite a clear "bell" about the inability of European countries to seriously fight for the JCPOA and international law as a whole, defending the decisions that were sealed by UN Security Council Resolution 2231.

Note the rhetorical escalation attacking the Outlaw US Empire's behavior and EU's supineness.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 16 2023 16:20 utc | 44

Regarding the MQ-9 being brought down, the footage released today is pretty interesting. It clearly shows fuel being dumped, not chaff as I thought. Look at the geometry of the MQ-9's tail. It's pretty hard to hit the propeller without also hitting the tails, although that is not in the camera's view. Some commenters think the bent prop is a propaganda fake, but in the second part of the clip, the MQ-9 is showing a different aspect to the sun, shading the propeller tips, making this determination difficult. Contact with the Russian fighter is enough to change its course. It is clear that all three blades are now at wildly different pitch settings, which would make continued flight impossible. If the Russians can recover it, this will be an intelligence coup leading to additional countermeasures against the type. The appetite in the west for a tit-for-tat downing of a Russian aircraft by a NATO one threatens to make the war an order of magnitude larger. Given the train derailments and imminent collapse of more banks, Biden needs a reckless distraction.

Posted by: promptcritical | Mar 16 2023 16:36 utc | 45

@ the pair | Mar 16 2023 16:19 utc | 42

i agree with a lot of what you say.. thanks..

Posted by: james | Mar 16 2023 16:43 utc | 46

Re: Don Bacon’s reference to Damned Rather admitting to being a spigot of lies and propaganda.

I believe most Americans know they are being fed lies and manure, and on a constant basis as well. But they know these lies and bullshit are necessary to maintain American hegemony, and so long as American hegemony delivers the cheap gasoline for their bloated SUVs, and inexpensive wall-sized TVs for every room of their cardboard McMansions, then Americans will enthusiastically wolf down that bullshit with gusto.

Ex: discussion with a close family member about “woke” bullshit. Are genitally mutilated males really women? Do women really (for real) become men if you hack off their breasts and gouge out their ovaries? Even when they are coded for maleness or femaleness in the DNA in every cell of their bodies?

Eventually the family member agreed that the individuals under discussion are damaged goods... FUBAR... delusional. Family member’s response: ”But what harm does it do to go along with their delusions? What does it cost you to pretend that the poor wrecked individual is a beautiful woman or a studly man, depending upon their delusions?”

Likewise most Americans know that America is backing monstrous Nazi death squads, not just in the Ukraine but around the world. They are convinced, though, that the harm in going along with the delusion that those Nazis are the good guys is less than the harm caused by acknowledging their evil. If denial of reality is their patriotic duty and it helps keep the cheap gas flowing and maintains American primacy, then that is what Americans will do.

Of course, presstitutes play an important part in helping the population maintain their delusions. They are absolutely certain the lies they tell are for a good cause.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 16 2023 16:48 utc | 47

And now attention The games in the SMO are over.

The order to destroy the American strategic drone...was given personally by Sergey Shoigu.
[It] practiced coordination of a tactical nuclear strike from the Mediterranean Sea against military infrastructure facilities in Crimea.
This is not just a violation of the “red lines”. There are no more lines...[no more] diplomatic notes...
Russian Defence Minister Sergey Shoigu... [instructed]... the Commander-in-Chief of the Air Force – all enemy drones will be shot down...no matter where they fly from – from a NATO base in Bucharest, or from any other point of the world.
If a more powerful Global Hawk drone, which is capable of conducting reconnaissance, being further from the Russian borders, approaches them, it will be shot down. Without warnings. If Starlink satellites orient the enemy on targets in Russia, they will be shot down. And nothing less.

Posted by: OttoE | Mar 16 2023 16:59 utc | 48

Question for the bar:

Has it been established whether this particular drone flew especially close to (or provocatively towards) Crimea or not?

Which is to say, does the genesis of this drone incident look like the US going out of its way to provoke a reaction, or RF deciding to take a stand against an otherwise routine surveillance flight?

Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 16 2023 16:59 utc | 49

If you want to take the mental temperature of typical NYT readers, try reading the comments section of any article relating to Russia, Ukraine or China. There you will find one commenter after another who has drunk a whole pitcher of Deep State Kool-aid. There are occasional commenters raising reasonable objections—and I believe that those numbers are on the rise—but mostly it’s cheerleaders for war and imperialism.

Posted by: Rob | Mar 16 2023 17:04 utc | 50

Matt Taibbi and Douglas Murray take on mainstream journalists Michelle Goldberg and Malcolm Gladwell, and sway the audience with logic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdPQV6xDdcc

Posted by: wagelaborer | Mar 16 2023 17:14 utc | 51

Looks like it’s not just the cost of living in the West that is experiencing inflation.

https://news.yahoo.com/ukraines-defence-forces-killed-total-060843287.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALBeAxhokzfJOnOuSx5sQ5Xf55CCT_jyA098MUYIeOIz3440NeZLj2uBYuOqwHPEQVja9iO0sWLIGTrzp7mmuJUA8ee48uy_rmju0eJl1v-Wb2YKtpr8rnT_wPZyhakPze3ifvmY1HDvAuxDQUKTFgr72Ky3eMvVXOMJkuXASHfm

At x3 wounded that’s 640,000 casualties and seems to follow the historical correlation between unbelievable claims and regime collapse. Interestingly, the 640K figure aligns with some estimates of UAF’s losses, perhaps this trend of reverse attribution is the statistical equivalent of ‘dupers delight’.

As for the drone footage, why does the camera cut out just before impact?

Posted by: Milites | Mar 16 2023 17:20 utc | 52

@49, in internation space, but inside Russia's self declared SMO space, so depends on your viewpoint. Clearly the US can choose to ignore the Russian SMO space, legally, but thats probably why it got intercepted.

Posted by: neofeudalfuture | Mar 16 2023 17:35 utc | 53

promptcritical | Mar 16 2023 16:36 utc | 45 ...appetite in the west for a tit-for-tat downing of a Russian aircraft...Biden needs a reckless distraction.

I have reasons to believe that the downing of a Russian aircraft is not so unwelcome in RF's command. They need a reason (call it pretext if you want) to escalate and declare war. Formally declared war will allow them to use more and other forces in 404. The ones they used so far are... out-tested. Also, such event may force China to take sides openly and help them over certain still existing hurdles. If you ARE IN WW3, you better take sides early while the theater is still pretty far away, especially if you are the declared Next. In the logic of Lindsey Graham: The Only Way to Avoid World War III Is to Start It

Also see OttoE | Mar 16 2023 16:59 utc | 48 the games in the SMO are over.

Posted by: OttoE | Mar 16 2023 17:38 utc | 54

News you're unlikely to read: Along with the Global Development Initiative and the Global Security Initiative, Xi has introduced the Global Civilizational Initiative:

Under the initiative, Xi called for respect for diversity of civilizations, advocating the common values of humanity, highly valuing the inheritance and innovation of civilizations, and jointly advocating robust international people-to-people exchanges and cooperation.

"We are ready to work together with the international community to open up a new prospect of enhanced exchanges and understanding among different peoples and better interactions and integration of diversified cultures. Together we can make the garden of world civilizations colorful and vibrant," Xi said.

This third initiative is likely the final one and will be most welcomed by RoW. This paragraph sums them up:

"From the Global Development Initiative and the Global Security Initiative to the latest Global Civilization Initiative, China has presented the world with an ideological system that gets increasingly mature. Adding to the China-proposed Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) and the ideal of the global community of shared future, China is trying to use its own wisdom, experiences and influence based on its own successful development and exploration in the past decades to help the world improve and reform the old problematic international system and order, experts said."

Yes, we already know what the Outlaw US Empire's reaction will be--complete rejection--which also sends a signal to RoW that it's unwilling to be part of humanity. IMO, that signal will prove to be mortal.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 16 2023 17:46 utc | 55

@19 They're trying to generate more consent.

It’s working, every country that has ever been droned by the empire is thinking God bless the Russians.

Posted by: Fred777 | Mar 16 2023 17:47 utc | 56

OttoE @54--

Given Putin's meeting today with the Congress of the Russian Union of Industrialists and Entrepreneurs, the dialog and its linkage to Putin's speech to the Federal Assembly, as well as other factors, IMO your hypothesis is incorrect; Russia doesn't seek any sort of excuse to declare war on NATO as more than enough evidence exists for that to be done, but the Duma has refused to discuss such an initiative.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 16 2023 17:56 utc | 57

There's a difference between a reporter and a journalist. Reporters describe what's happening and journalists masturbate over it.

Posted by: Squeeth | Mar 16 2023 16:00 utc | 37

Reporters do facts and content.
Journalist do opinion and emotional incontinence.

Posted by: jpc | Mar 16 2023 17:59 utc | 58

william gruff and otto e - thanks for your posts...

Posted by: james | Mar 16 2023 18:14 utc | 59

Which is to say, does the genesis of this drone incident look like the US going out of its way to provoke a reaction, or RF deciding to take a stand against an otherwise routine surveillance flight?

Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 16 2023 16:59 utc | 49

In the Black Sea, there are no routine surveillance flights. Every Ukraine attack on Crimea so far has been preceded by NATO drones scouting the area. Russia sees these flights as NATO gathering info for the next attack.

Posted by: Mike R | Mar 16 2023 18:15 utc | 60

Julian Barners and David Sanger of the NYT are well known liars. In some ways, worse than both Judith Miller and the infamous Michael Gordon, because in their long careers at the NYT, the latter 2 would some times report facts that had confirmation and were not generally known.

Posted by: Jay | Mar 16 2023 18:17 utc | 61

If you want to take the mental temperature of typical NYT readers, try reading the comments section of any article relating to Russia, Ukraine or China. There you will find one commenter after another who has drunk a whole pitcher of Deep State Kool-aid. There are occasional commenters raising reasonable objections—and I believe that those numbers are on the rise—but mostly it’s cheerleaders for war and imperialism.

Posted by: Rob | Mar 16 2023 17:04 utc | 50

The pro-war commentators dominate the NYT's, all repeating the same tired tropes. I was one of those occasional commenters raising objections, and maybe a third of my comments regarding Ukraine were actually posted. Never had any problem with comments not related to Ukraine. So there are probably more objectors, they just don't get published. (I canceled my subscription and told them why, and they still keep making offers to get me to re-subscribe.)

Posted by: Mike R | Mar 16 2023 18:31 utc | 62

Now Ukraine wants Finland to give it several of its trains.

Very clever. I'd fall for it and I'd throw in half a dozen Finnair jet liners to sweeten the deal. This kind of opportunity rarely comes along.

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Mar 16 2023 18:31 utc | 63

Posted on the other thread but will post here as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc8S-U28MOg

Video interview with Ukrainian official claiming to have information on drug manufacture and distribution to front lines, credit card scamming, money laundering, and weapons sales organized by people in the Ukrainian government. Maybe it will come to nothing, but if the guy delivers and the material gets published it would be a window into the corrupt operation of the war and might bring down the government. He implicates Chechen mafia in the money laundering as well as weapons being sold by Ukrainians to Russia via Dubai so he clearly doesn't have any friends if this comes out.

Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 16 2023 18:34 utc | 64

Mike R. [60]

In the Black Sea, there are no routine surveillance flights.

Your logic is impeccable.
The nature of General Atomics drones is that they are military not civilian. They are not DJI toys which incidentally European nations prohibit from flying over cities or in sensitive areas and which in countries like Germany require a licence to operate.

Not only was this a military drone, it had its transponder switched off, and was in an area where Russia has issued NOTAMs. - it was on a spying mission and was equipped for target acquisition streamed to a satellite...........

These drones feed satellite info directly and Russia no doubt has monitored this........you cannot be more of a Co-Belligerent than when you feed coordinates to your own US officers on the ground supervising Ukrainian use of HIMARS to attack those coordinates

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 16 2023 18:38 utc | 65

https://dronecenter.bard.edu/files/2020/03/CSD-Unarmed-and-Dangerous-Web.pdf

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 16 2023 18:50 utc | 66

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 16 2023 18:50 utc | 66

Thank you for the drone PDF, quite interesting. Here’s a nice example:

Russia, a global leader in electronic warfare tech- nologies,123 operates an Electronic Attack system known as the Leer-3 (леер-3), which consists of two or three Orlan-10 (Орлан-10) tactical fixed- wing drones and a truck-based ground station.
The Leer-3 system can reportedly be used to jam cellular networks up to 60km away.124 The system can also be used to mimic a cellphone tower, which allows Russian forces to send text messages directly to adversary forces operating in the area, reportedly reaching as many as 2,000 cell phones
at once. In Ukraine, Leer-3 systems sent Ukrainian soldiers text messages, some of which were made to look as though they came from fellow soldiers, encouraging them to defect and telling them that they had been abandoned by their commanders or that their forces were suffering heavy losses nearby. Examples of fake messages include: “Leave and you will live,” “Nobody needs your kids to become orphans,” “They’ll find your bodies when the snow melts,” and “We should run away.”125 In Syria, the system has been used to send combatants fake application forms for an armistice.126 According
to reporting by Estonia’s International Centre for Defence and Security, “it is highly likely” that the system was used in support of Syrian Arab Army attacks on opposition groups.127 It has also been reported that the Leer-3 has been used to send text messages to local civilian populations, warning them to clear the vicinity of a target in the lead-up to a planned strike and directing them toward safe corridors to avoid crossfire.128

Posted by: Zet | Mar 16 2023 19:08 utc | 67

In 2019 Oleksiy Arestovych, advisor to the Office of Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskiy, eerily predicted, with stunning accuracy, how events in Ukraine would unfold in 2022.

https://intellinews.com/former-ukrainian-presidential-advisor-perfectly-predicted-russian-invasion-in-2019-238183/

Posted by: Andreas | Mar 16 2023 19:10 utc | 68

Now Ukraine wants Finland to give it several of its trains.

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Mar 16 2023 18:31 utc | 63

The Ukrops have a point on this one

Finland was part of the Russian empire and uses the same 1524 mm (5 foot) rail gauge as the former USSR. Ukraine has a highly electrified rail system that had been systematically degraded by the Russian armed forces and the Ukrops are also heavily dependent on rail transport. They also have a severe shortage of diesel locomotives , the main loco factory is in Lugansk.

A few diesel locomotives from the Finns that are compatible with the USSR rail system would be pretty useful for them

Posted by: Aslangeo | Mar 16 2023 19:14 utc | 69

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 16 2023 18:38 utc | 65
BLOCKQUOTE>.. These drones feed satellite info directly and Russia no doubt has monitored this........you cannot be more of a Co-Belligerent than when you feed coordinates to your own US officers on the ground supervising Ukrainian use of HIMARS to attack those coordinates ..
So, their UKR/USA power obviously should now be taken their "own operators" may installed just newr front-lines, to discover swome enemy targets ..
Rather than some Computer-players with its mouse-like handysome equipments, waiting at-home - in RAMSTEIN-BaseControl Center over All Flights woerld-wide /GER, .. think "you US-made playing guy", you even would be targeted, when a TEXAS or a NewYork-City may be get a target of yours Biden/Nuland+ like every day shelling towards Donetzk ..
Be careful Mr/Ms. USA ! You lost time ...

Posted by: spare_truth | Mar 16 2023 19:15 utc | 70

sorry, forgot the final html-sign ..

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 16 2023 18:38 utc | 65
BLOCKQUOTE>.. These drones feed satellite info directly and Russia no doubt has monitored this........you cannot be more of a Co-Belligerent than when you feed coordinates to your own US officers on the ground supervising Ukrainian use of HIMARS to attack those coordinates ..
So, their UKR/USA power obviously should now be taken their "own operators" may installed just newr front-lines, to discover swome enemy targets ..
Rather than some Computer-players with its mouse-like handysome equipments, waiting at-home - in RAMSTEIN-BaseControl Center over All Flights woerld-wide /GER, .. think "you US-made playing guy", you even would be targeted, when a TEXAS or a NewYork-City may be get a target of yours Biden/Nuland+ like every day shelling towards Donetzk ..
Be careful Mr/Ms. USA ! You lost time ...

Posted by: spare_truth | Mar 16 2023 19:18 utc | 71

Re: Mike R | Mar 16 2023 18:15 utc | 60

In the Black Sea, there are no routine surveillance flights. Every Ukraine attack on Crimea so far has been preceded by NATO drones scouting the area. Russia sees these flights as NATO gathering info for the next attack.

and Re: Paul Greenwood | Mar 16 2023 18:38 utc | 65

it had its transponder switched off, and was in an area where Russia has issued NOTAMs. - it was on a spying mission and was equipped for target acquisition streamed to a satellite

Routine or not, what distinguishes this Reaper mission from earlier ones that Russia did not force down? Certainly previous drone flights were also doing target aquisition. Is it only that the transponder was off?... as if this is mostly a deconfliction message to the US over protocol? Did this flight intrude into Russia's restricted areas more threateningly than previous missions? (which would argue for the downing) Or is it just time for some mutual escalation from what had previously been "routine" and "tolerated" NATO drone missions?

Posted by: pokums | Mar 16 2023 19:21 utc | 72

sorry, forgot the final html-sign once more .. go discipline on lex!

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 16 2023 18:38 utc | 65
BLOCKQUOTE>.. These drones feed satellite info directly and Russia no doubt has monitored this........you cannot be more of a Co-Belligerent than when you feed coordinates to your own US officers on the ground supervising Ukrainian use of HIMARS to attack those coordinates ..

So, their UKR/USA power obviously should now be taken their "own operators" may installed just newr front-lines, to discover swome enemy targets ..
Rather than some Computer-players with its mouse-like handysome equipments, waiting at-home - in RAMSTEIN-BaseControl Center over All Flights woerld-wide /GER, .. think "you US-made playing guy", you even would be targeted, when a TEXAS or a NewYork-City may be get a target of yours Biden/Nuland+ like every day shelling towards Donetzk ..
Be careful Mr/Ms. USA ! You lost time ...

Posted by: spare_truth | Mar 16 2023 19:21 utc | 73

Clint Watts got a mention in my piece about Russiagate back in 2017, here:

https://caucus99percent.com/content/okeydoke-americans-were-supposed-get

Posted by: Bob In Portland, Ore | Mar 16 2023 19:22 utc | 74

Elmagnostic | Mar 16 2023 18:31 utc 63

The best thing about Finnish locomotives is they are completely impervious to Russian missiles. Nothing can possibly go wrong.

Posted by: dh | Mar 16 2023 19:26 utc | 75

sorry, the so-called html BLOCKQUOTE tag has failed today for me above, so the style refenced here is """" ..
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Mar 16 2023 18:38 utc | 65
"These drones feed satellite info directly and Russia no doubt has monitored this........you cannot be more of a Co-Belligerent than when you feed coordinates to your own US officers on the ground supervising Ukrainian use of HIMARS to attack those coordinates .."

So, their UKR/USA power obviously should now be taken their "own operators" may installed just new front-lines, to discover some enemy targets ..
Rather than some Computer-players with its mouse-like handysome equipments, waiting at-home - in RAMSTEIN-BaseControl Center over All Flights woerld-wide /GER, .. think "you US-made playing guy", you even would be targeted, when a TEXAS or a NewYork-City may be get a target of yours Biden/Nuland+ like every day shelling towards Donetzk ..
Be careful Mr/Ms. USA ! You lost time ...

Posted by: spare_truth | Mar 16 2023 19:31 utc | 76

Posted by: Mike R | Mar 16 2023 18:15 utc | 60

Routine in the sense that they were regular and ongoing. They were certainly routine enough that the US almost immediately announced that they had cancelled two or three other planned flights of the same type.

My question was motivated by an interest in whether the US specifically sought to provoke this incident or not.

Posted by: anon2020 | Mar 16 2023 19:38 utc | 77

I appreciate and admire the determination with which b dissects the daily propaganda by the propaganda system referred to as mainstream media or corporate media. It is indeed important to do despite being an extremely tedious effort. Extremely. Documenting the lies and distortions is a relevant historical record.

The media, properly defined, died decades ago. Good journalists, however, live on and with them information, even if it is marginalised and not easy to find.

What happened to journalism, why and how is being thoroughly studied, discussed and written about. Also the consequences for individual and societal decision making.

I quote here one way of putting it, by the American writer Edward Curtin, from his new piece ‘The Cell Phone Is a Pair of Red High Heels’, that can be read here:
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2023/03/edward-curtin/the-cell-phone-is-a-pair-of-red-high-heels/
or here: https://edwardcurtin.com/

‘It’s a game of control abetted by radical stupidity, and it is not a mistake, as Dylan, contrary to his public posturing and corporate imaging, lets his artist’s soul sing:

There are no mistakes in life some people say

It is true sometimes you can see it that way

But people don’t live or die, people just float

Floating in a void of gibberish and double-talk, heads barely above the water, alienated from reality while fixated on the Spectacle, while sometimes when panicky looking for a life preserver but never to the right source, this is where technology and capitalism  have taken us.  On any issue – the bombing of the Nord Stream pipelines, the facts about the U. S. proxy-war against Russia in Ukraine, Covid-19, the economy, etc. –  the mainstream media daily pumps out contradictory stories to confuse the public whose attention span has been reduced to a scrolling few seconds.  Sustained attention and the ability to dissect the endless propaganda is a thing of the past and receding faster than the computer jargon of milliseconds and nanoseconds.  Planned chaos is the proper name for the daily news reports’.

What also deserves to be thoroughly studied and discussed is the misinformation too often found on various independent or dissenting platforms which for the most part have solid and reliable content. Because of the solid content the misinformation is taken at face value by all not versed in the particular topic and thus misinformation spreads among the generally better informed. Not a good thing.

Posted by: JB | Mar 16 2023 19:50 utc | 78

Mr.ELensky/UKR (the so-called 'TV cock piano player') has been given a times by US of a strict schedule of command on the worse equipped UAF Soldiers going directly to current front-lines, ...
So the UKR soldiers, they've been taken by more & more drafted men from streets without any military skills..",
but waiting a while, all of them have died, wounded or died after wounded.
So! What to stop that ...?
My guess today is, about above ...? >> call some Snipers (PMC?), even towards more Western Leaders Nazi-Areas of Ukraine .. Or not?

Posted by: spare_truth | Mar 16 2023 19:59 utc | 79

Of course the Russians are going to use cyberattacks during their offensive

Posted by: Degringolade | Mar 16 2023 14:56 utc | 31

Russia doesn’t really need to launch cyberattacks; all they have to do is wait for each ‘Patch Tuesday’ and then roll around in laughter as they watch the western corporate techies deal with being locked out of Active Directory (as an example). Or Azure to have yet another inexplicable outage caused by a mis-applied patch, or lack of testing etc, etc.

All Russia needs to do is wait for western software incompetence to the job for them...

Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 16 2023 20:07 utc | 80

Routine or not, what distinguishes this Reaper mission from earlier ones that Russia did not force down? Certainly previous drone flights were also doing target aquisition. Is it only that the transponder was off?... as if this is mostly a deconfliction message to the US over protocol? Did this flight intrude into Russia's restricted areas more threateningly than previous missions? (which would argue for the downing) Or is it just time for some mutual escalation from what had previously been "routine" and "tolerated" NATO drone missions?

Posted by: pokums | Mar 16 2023 19:21 utc | 72

Several things were unusual.

First, this was reportedly way closer to Crimea than the regular flights over the Black Sea.

And this was, if the flight maps are to be believed, headed towards Crimea with transponders turned off.

Second, usually it is a RQ-4B Global Hawk drone circling around the middle of the Black Sea south of Crimea.

But this time it was a MQ-9 Reaper drone. RQ-4B is strictly a reconnaissance UAV, while MQ-9s are UCAV, which do surveillance but can also carry missiles.

Of course Russians knew if it had missiles on it by flying around it, but I don't recall seeing MQ-9s in that area before.

Regardless, every major attack on Russia, starting with the sinking of the Moskva, has been preceded and accompanied by RQ-4B drones making these flights in the area. That is how targeting is focused and coordinated.

So they should have started shooting them down a long time ago. This is open and direct involvement in hostilities, they are fully in their right to take them out, and in fact not doing it and letting their soldiers (and civilians too) die in large numbers because of the activity of these drones is arguably outright treason.

Question is whether they actually started taking them down with what happened the other day, or this was just a one-off.

Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 16 2023 20:09 utc | 81

JB @ 78

Thanks for that quote from Bob Dylan song very sad but worth a listen if you can find it on YouTube....
'The Man In The Long Black Coat'

Agree with your points. And would add the way good websites are deliberatly seeded to discredit them.
What ever happened to all the Anonomous sites ! gone.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 16 2023 20:19 utc | 82

https://www.politico.eu/article/easy-goodbye-china-russia-west-war-ukraine/

Did the "great leaders" that decided the Russian (and coming China) break-up actually believed that Russia (or China) are going to help us doing it ?

This level of stupidity is Guinness Books level. But, of course, coming from generations of leaders who, serving global shareholders instead of the people who elected them, made everything possible in their country to facilitate de localization, they couldn't think it might be different out there.
You can say a lot about Russia and China, but their leaders serve and defend their national economy and thus, even in an undemocratic way, their people.

One more reflection. It's true it takes a serious financial hit to leave these countries and markets. But, while all our population suffers gravely from the consequence of this economic aspect of the war, it's interesting and very telling that the wealthiest of us, shareholders, don't. That they won't go and take losses for what we're told is "the greater good". Especially since these losses, comparatively, represent much less to them than to us.
Somehow, we're all Ukrainian : we're all expendable. Not them.

Posted by: Saracen's Head | Mar 16 2023 20:21 utc | 83

@ Mark2 | Mar 16 2023 20:19 utc | 82

Bob Dylan - Man in the Long Black Coat (Official Audio) - Youtube. 4m34s

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 16 2023 20:23 utc | 84

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Mar 16 2023 14:51 utc | 30

... the equivalent of a dog lifting its leg and marking its territory ...

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Mar 16 2023 20:31 utc | 85

Posted by: shadowbanned | Mar 16 2023 20:09 utc | 81

..First, this was reportedly way closer to Crimea than the regular flights over the Black Sea. ..

Most of all commercial flights towards Asia are running or toch via the BlackSea and the Caspian Sea contolled airspace control.
So the fligth space should be saved by each of regional fligth controls.
This event however, "fires" at a very close-to-Crimea region, the international flight zone has been declared as un-safe, so the US-Drone came in and "it" want to now how far can I get with best videos captured ..
That "may be usual" acc.to US Pentagon, but it is not usual for MoD/RF, every day (or isn't..?)
CIA & Nuland/Hillary guys is the mainly well skilled operators of those "flights" even with a very heavy armed (>1000 tons) drones, but those stupid US-Governors don't feel responsibilty at its folks ..
So let it flow .. We'll see what USA is 2 months ahead with the SVB and other banks ...
That was simply a test (started by Soros, Gates, etc) - no more yet. Sure.

Posted by: spare_truth | Mar 16 2023 20:35 utc | 86

RE: Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 16 2023 20:07 utc | 80

You are probably right, but since they seem to be quite methodical, I would say they will probably still do some mischief via the internet. While the overall software sucks and the patch cycle usually causes more problems than it solves, there is no reason not to have their script kiddies hone their skills.

Posted by: Degringolade | Mar 16 2023 20:38 utc | 87

Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 16 2023 14:45 utc | 28
123 Pall Mall, London

dayyum! smoke those Ukrainians while you got 'em!

and let's not forget the millions the US has killed via drone warfare from Libya to Pakistan, drone war being mostly ramped up by saint obama.

shoot down all US military drones!

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Mar 16 2023 20:39 utc | 88

Posted by: spare_truth | Mar 16 2023 20:35 utc | 86
Sorry, have left out the decimal point for the work load :
RF-modern rokets weight is above 1.000 kg .. (not tons)

Posted by: spare_truth | Mar 16 2023 20:48 utc | 89

Posted by: wagelaborer | Mar 16 2023 17:14 utc | 51
malcolm gladfart is what passes for intellectual culture. he's the worst and his mere existence proves that we are all doomed. but he's by no means unique in that. e.g., Bret, Paul, Tom and co on the oped page of the NYT.

there's less filth running thru the streets of Malawi right now than in the soul of any of them. mal comb glad hurt. i could come up w/some something more disgusting, but being a family program and all, i won't sully the beautiful minds here...

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Mar 16 2023 20:49 utc | 90

Russia is just letting the west know It’s time to shit or get off the pot.

Posted by: OohCanada | Mar 16 2023 20:51 utc | 91

Posted by: rjb1.5 | March 16, 2023 at 20:49
malodorous gladfart is a walking talking excel spreadsheet of very limited size w/a couple of AI chatbot brain implants at work that spew up big words like "conspiracy theory". part of that whole Yale thing, as American Psycho Pat Bateman said.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Mar 16 2023 20:52 utc | 92

Posted by: OohCanada | Mar 16 2023 20:51 utc | 91

hahahahahahahahaha

well yeah basically :D

Posted by: Macpott | Mar 16 2023 20:52 utc | 93

An endorsement for what happens here at MoA.

"You know, it's sufficient just to closely monitor what's going on in the world always and then you'll understand the logic behind what is going on. Why do ordinary people often lose touch with what is going on? Why do they consider these things complicated? Why do they think that something is concealed from their eyes? This is simply because ordinary people live their lives. On an everyday basis they go to work and earn money, and they are not following international affairs. That's why ordinary people are so easy to manipulate, to be misled. But if they were to follow what's going on in the world on an everyday basis, then despite the fact that some part of diplomacy is always conducted behind closed doors, it's still going to be easier to understand what's going on and you'll be able to grasp the logic behind world developments. And you can achieve it even without having access to secret documents."

Vladimir Putin, Oliver Stone Interviews 2 Jul 2015

Posted by: PeeDee | Mar 16 2023 21:01 utc | 94

Outraged @ 84
Thanks for posting the link for that song.
Best version is with really good graphics.
' illustrated by Andrew Colunga' add that to the search.

By the way, your a top notch commenter on here. I always think that but rarely say. So that's done.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 16 2023 21:02 utc | 95

@karlof1 | Mar 16 2023 17:56 utc | 57 Russia doesn't seek any sort of excuse to declare war on NATO...enough evidence in Russia...

Evidence is one thing. A placative, undeniably hostile action is onother one, called "proof". (There is only two true sources of proof: Confession and being caught in the act).

Sure, Russia knows what's up. However, they still may need the hardline hostile action and the inevitable falcon' jubilations in the Evil Empire media, to demonstrate their just case (war of defense) to the RoW. I am convinced that RF waits for a decisive event that tears down the last veil of the "we are not a party to the conflict, we are just helping a befriended nation" hypocrites and gives undeniable proof of their direct involvement.

Posted by: OttoE | Mar 16 2023 21:05 utc | 96

@ Mark2 | Mar 16 2023 21:02 utc | 95

Your wish is my command. You are most welcome. Aw shucks.

Man in the Long Black Coat Illustrated Youtube. 4m39s.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 16 2023 21:13 utc | 97

RE: OttoE | Mar 16 2023 21:05 utc | 96

How is providing real time targeting information 24/7 to weapons systems manned by your own troops firing on Russian forces not an "undeniable proof of their direct involvement?
The fools in Washington have been convinced that "Russia will back down" because they have already crossed so many Russian red lines without serious retribution.

Posted by: Perimetr | Mar 16 2023 21:14 utc | 98

The US claims that the drone was operating in international waters. Since the US does not recognize Crimea as Russian territory, that claim is literally true.

Since the Russians claim it as their territory they should have no trouble defending it by putting that drone out of business, most delicately. I like that very nice piece of business including the Soviet era of 'Golden Showers' by combat aircraft, dumping fuel on the enemy. Equal opportunity mischief by both parties. So much fun.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Mar 16 2023 21:20 utc | 99

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Mar 16 2023 21:20 utc | 99

The drone is reported to be about 40 miles offshore so it wouldn't matter who 'owned' Crimea.

Posted by: Bill Smith | Mar 16 2023 21:27 utc | 100