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March 22, 2023
Open (Not Ukraine) Thread 2023-66
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Dang. Out not our. And Mr. Hermit, a new neologism! Nescientosphere. Coo. (that’s what the kids say)
but coo. I like new wurds! I am adding that to the list. You have two new ones for me. Thanks!
Thingie help us all!
Posted by: lex talionis | Mar 27 2023 8:19 utc | 301
“People objecting to this are like the civil serpents of Washington who insisted on firing somebody for using the term niggardly.”
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 27 2023 7:16 utc | 295
Hermit, I’m not satisfied that you have conceded the point Suzan was making. All of what you say in your #295 may be correct,
but the plain and simple fact is that when you use those terms people get offended. Right, wrong, up or down, that’s what happens.
You know that. I’m the atheist son of an evangelical fire and brimstone preacher and I know that.
e.g. Richard Dawkins’ comtempt for believers hinders his ability to converse effectively with them.
It’s the same with the thingies thingy.
Posted by: waynorinorway | Mar 27 2023 9:10 utc | 302
@waynorinorway | Mar 27 2023 9:10 utc | 302
My interest is in effective communication with people capable of rational discussion using simple language as accurately as possible. I will always seek to use the word most accurately communicating precisely what I want to say, and sometimes, if the word does not exist, I will invent it. For example, kefálalia. “Kefálalia: from Greek “κεφάλαιο” [kefálaio] (i.e. the majuscule letters) and Greek “λαλια” [lalia] (i.e. speech) to describe the random use of capitalization, rather as echolalia describes the random repetition of others’ words. In other words, the syndrome of inserting random capitals into sentences, a usually reliable indicator of religiosity, conservatism, AGW denial and other symptoms of mental deficiency, with differential diagnosis facilitated by the fact that the condition is exacerbated by opposition.” Random capitalization annoyed us all, but until I invented a suitable neologism to describe it, we all had to write paragraphs to express annoyance. Now, we use the word and if somebody does not understand it, they can look it up 🙂
Consider that religiots have defined languages which do not possess words for concepts like god thingies, or indeed religiots* making such discussions exceedingly difficult to hold. So an atheist (people not vesting belief in god thingies) has defined these terms, and unbelievers are using them to great effect.
If my terminology happens to offend some people because they cannot use a dictionary, Google, or just ask, or having asked, reject the definition rather than using it pro temps, discussing the matter or suggesting an alternative, then I am delighted. It saves investing time in a discussion bound to generate more heat than light.
*Religiot: Anyone who vests belief in any god thingies or forces, or ‘the supernatural’, or regards themselves as being affiliated to any deistic or theistic religious organization. Religiot originated because religiots cannot agree between themselves on the meaning of religion, and because there was no all inclusive word for people who are not atheistic.
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 27 2023 9:53 utc | 303
lex talionis | Mar 27 2023 8:19 utc | 301
On a point of order
People who see the name Hermit
And immediately assume it is male
One certainly has to wonder
Why a hermit could not be female?
Would it really be a great blunder?
Or even quite beyond the pale?
To recognize with a sense of wonder
That a lady might lurk ‘neath a veil?
I know that it is a small matter
Unless you want to take me to bed
But my partner might not want to natter,
He may just lope off your head
He is a most civilized person
Though oft’ seen in a kilt with a sword
But he could take offense if you offered
Considering it quite untoward.
Which is why I would shrug this off lightly
And avoid all mention of sex
That way we can chatter politely
And never need fear for our necks!
So call me Mr, Mrs, him, her or it
Whatever pleases, I don’t mind a bit
Still easiest of all perhaps,
Just call me Hermit like the other chaps.
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 27 2023 10:52 utc | 304
The unattainability of the absolute outside of simplistic logical systems of limited applicability is not a matter argument but of well established fact of some 100 years standing, derived separately from mathematics, logic, set theory, the standard model and quantum mechanics.
—
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 27 2023 7:25 utc | 296
You know, it occurred to me, in considering our last conversation, that Wittgenstein, in the Tractatus, pursued a stategy somewhat similar to Goedel in his incompleteness results.
I expect you already knew that, but I hadn’t really seen what Wittgenstein was doing before. He (Wittgenstein) just went way up in my regard.
I think Russell and his friends got the ball rolling with his overreach.
It seems to me that the same incompleteness can be readily observed in physics too, no infinities. Light MUST have a speed limit. Hmm.
Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 27 2023 11:33 utc | 305
Light MUST have a speed limit. Hmm.
Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 27 2023 11:33 utc | 305
Ha, I have an old T-shirt that I got at the Exploratorium in San Francisco. It has a pic of Einstein in a police hat.
On top it says, ‘186,000 miles per second is not only a good idea,’
Underneath it says, ‘It’s the Law!’.
Posted by: waynorinorway | Mar 27 2023 11:48 utc | 306
Ha, I have an old T-shirt that I got at the Exploratorium in San Francisco. It has a pic of Einstein in a police hat.
On top it says, ‘186,000 miles per second is not only a good idea,’
Underneath it says, ‘It’s the Law!’.
Posted by: waynorinorway | Mar 27 2023 11:48 utc | 306
Yes, I’ve been there, 1976. A pleasant time, a brief period when it looked like things might get better. Berkeley was something back then.
I eventually reached the conclusion that everything real has limits. And it is a good thing.
Einstein’s results were quite a shock at the time, a blow to our intellectual hubris. But we recovered quickly. /sarc
Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 27 2023 12:26 utc | 307
Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 27 2023 12:26 utc | 307
Unfortunately, we are now back to an era dominated by people like Viki*****.
Their only complaint is that the tyranny of the bourgeoisie is not as vicious as it ideally should be, so much so that they “even” need to find ways to avoid corporate, estate and personal income taxes /s
Interestingly, while the real gold price has barely risen since QE, these people still believe that QE is not the great analogue of much too high interest rates (the purpose of QE, as stressed numerous times in economics, is to achieve a stimulus effect without lowering interest rates to a deep negative range, so the aim is to raise nominal and real interest rates as much as possible) and the gold standard policy they demand, but the “exact opposite” (what they call a “flood of easy money”)
While they ridicule some of the pseudo “socialists” for their “socialism has never been tried”, they have no self-awareness and deny that their narrative belongs to the “true free market/libertarianism (at least since the breakup of Bretton Woods) has never been tried”, although in reality Volcker, Greenspan, Bernanke, Yellen and Powell all implemented policies that literally belonged to what the libertarians wanted.
Posted by: Colin | Mar 27 2023 13:20 utc | 308
Posted by: Vikichka | Mar 26 2023 8:51 utc | 264
I hadn’t seen these perfect counterpoints before “LooooooooooooooooL.”
1. The 2-3% similarity between Neanderthals and humans is a further 2-3% similarity on top of the 99% + that belong to the human family together. “Try your luck with this nonsense with someone who is naive, never learned biology and has no idea what gene similarity is.”
2. According to you, the US belongs to socialism, not the free market. Since the US won the Cold War, apparently, according to you, socialism won the Cold War over the free market. “Lmao” “This is your (FLEE MARKET!!1!1) religion.”
You can believe anything. This doesn’t change whether it’s true or false.” Zero self-consciousness and blind conclusions about yourself that have no scientific or empirical basis. “LooooooooooooooooL.”
4. that the universe will eventually evaporate to nothing or infinite inflation or other topics currently at the forefront of physics, yet this is not an entirely a prior “belief” but rather a Bayesian result that can be empirically corrected or a statistical conclusion of various conjectures based entirely on empirical evidence.
Posted by: Colin` | Mar 27 2023 13:34 utc | 309
Posted by: Colin | Mar 27 2023 13:20 utc | 308
Yeah, I had some uncles like that.
I am not a big believer in “economics” anyway. Whatever happens “when the universe ends”, I am sure I don’t need to worry about it.
I don’t want to get involved in arguing with trolls.
Thank you for your comment.
Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 27 2023 13:46 utc | 310
@ Hermit – Thank you for the lovely poem! Sorry for the use of Mr. It was meant as a bit of a respectful “hat tip” sort of thing. I guess I’m just old school, as the kids say here in LA, and I default to using the masculine. Thank you for being understanding. Pronouns and all those things that signify gender are a minefield in which I generally lose a limb or two. I’ll keep my barking down as the caravan passes. 😉
It ürür, kervan yürür. I just looked that up. Something I learned here. Perhaps from you!
The week begins, and I’m on the hunt for a new hamster wheel. Much love to all of the haruspices at the bar. Off to chase the paper.
Posted by: lex talionis | Mar 27 2023 16:05 utc | 311
@296 Hermit | Mar 27 2023 7:25 utc
I don’t think that you and I will ever be able to converse. And I don’t believe either of us will be sad about this.
I just don’t put any faith in those Hermit-thingies – a term equally in need of coining, I think.
Even so, I leave you with respect. I wish you well on your path, and may it bring you to ultimate clarity.
Posted by: Grieved | Mar 27 2023 16:49 utc | 312
Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 27 2023 13:46 utc | 310
My interest in Marx comes from my interest in how the economy works. Although I was initially misled by vulgar bourgeois economics, I eventually discovered its absurdities.
Posted by: Colin | Mar 27 2023 17:16 utc | 313
@Bemildred | Mar 27 2023 11:33 utc | 305
I agree completely.
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 27 2023 19:19 utc | 314
@Colin | Mar 27 2023 17:16 utc | 313
As I mention in my Economics Rebooted, I have enormous respect for Kate Raworth (2017-03 -22). Doughnut Economics: Seven Ways to Think Like a 21st-Century Economist. Chelsea Green Publishing. Raworth managed to overcome her LSE education to evolve a very Marxism perspective on her own, and did so in a way that has the support of many still stuck trying desperately to understand the world in terms of antediluvian Western economics.
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 27 2023 19:37 utc | 315
@Grieved | Mar 27 2023 16:49 utc | 312
Thank-you for your well wishes. They are reciprocated.
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 27 2023 19:39 utc | 316
@Bemildred | Mar 27 2023 11:33 utc | 305
“Russell and his friends got the ball rolling with his overreach”
Not only that, but Russell was smart enough to toss out his “life work” with Whitehead on Principia Mathematica, recognize Wittgenstein’s genius and sponsor his PhD with TLP as his thesis based on a single reading of Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus – in German. Which puts Russell in a very special category of open thinkers too.
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 27 2023 19:50 utc | 317
Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 27 2023 13:46 utc | 310
My interest in Marx comes from my interest in how the economy works. Although I was initially misled by vulgar bourgeois economics, I eventually discovered its absurdities.
Posted by: Colin | Mar 27 2023 17:16 utc | 313
Marx is very good for that.
Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 27 2023 19:50 utc | 318
@Bemildred | Mar 27 2023 11:33 utc | 305
I agree completely.
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 27 2023 19:19 utc | 314
Thank you.
Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 27 2023 19:58 utc | 319
Thank-you. I don’t usually bother mentioning it, but with friends I do. Kipling is out of style these days, but he wrote some great poetry. Your passing caravan reminded me of this one. This scene could have taken place anywhere on the South East English coast on the late 1700s or early 2800s.ore could be learned at e.g. http://www.smuggling.co.uk/history.html.
A Smuggler’s Song
by Rudyard Kipling
IF you wake at midnight, and hear a horse’s feet,
Don’t go drawing back the blind, or looking in the street.
Them that ask no questions isn’t told a lie.
Watch the wall my darling while the Gentlemen go by.
Five and twenty ponies,
Trotting through the dark –
Brandy for the parson, ‘baccy for the clerk.
Laces for a lady; letters for a spy,
Watch the wall my darling while the Gentlemen go by!
Running round the woodlump if you chance to find
Little barrels, roped and tarred, all full of brandy-wine,
Don’t you shout to come and look, nor use ’em for your play.
Put the brishwood back again – and they’ll be gone next day!
If you see the stable-door setting open wide,
If you see a tired horse lying down inside;
If your mother mends a coat cut about and tore,
If the lining’s wet and warm – don’t you ask no more!
If you meet King George’s men, dressed in blue and red,
You be careful what you say, and mindful what is said.
If they call you ‘pretty maid,’ and chuck you ‘neath the chin,
Don’t you tell where no one is, nor yet where no one’s been!
Knocks and footsteps round the house – whistles after dark –
You’ve no call for running out till the house-dogs bark.
Trusty’s here, and Pincher’s here, and see how dumb they lie
They don’t fret to follow when the Gentlemen go by!
‘If you do as you’ve been told, likely there’s a chance,
You’ll be give a dainty doll, all the way from France,
With a cap of Valenciennes, and a velvet hood –
A present from the Gentlemen, along o’ being good!
Five and twenty ponies,
Trotting through the dark –
Brandy for the parson, ‘baccy for the clerk.
Them that asks no questions isn’t told a lie –
Watch the wall my darling while the Gentlemen go by!
As an aside, I suspect that this rollicking verse inspired a number of passages in both the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 28 2023 6:10 utc | 320
As an aside, I suspect that this rollicking verse inspired a number of passages in both the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 28 2023 6:10 utc | 320
Heh heh heh heh heh.
Yes, I am fond of Kipling too, the British aristos may be a bunch of inbred fools, but there are jewels in the dust there.
My talents, such as they are tend to prose, but I try to nod along.
Requiem
Robert Louis Stevenson 1850-1894
Under the wide and starry sky,
Dig the grave and let me lie.
Glad did I live and gladly die,
And I laid me down with a will.
This be the verse you grave for me:
Here he lies where he longed to be;
Home is the sailor, home from sea,
And the hunter home from the hill.
My kind of guy. I keep that around these days.
I think we may find a few more things to converse about. 🙂
“Something further may follow of this masquerade.”
Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 28 2023 12:03 utc | 321
@Bemildred | Mar 28 2023 12:03 utc | 321
That has been one of my favorites since I first ran across it. I filed it mentally with Robert Frost’s Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening, particularly the central couplet of the ultimate stanza.
Whose woods these are I think I know.
His house is in the village though;
He will not see me stopping here
To watch his woods fill up with snow.
My little horse must think it queer
To stop without a farmhouse near
Between the woods and frozen lake
The darkest evening of the year.
He gives his harness bells a shake
To ask if there is some mistake.
The only other sound’s the sweep
Of easy wind and downy flake.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 28 2023 16:04 utc | 322
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 28 2023 16:04 utc | 322
Well certainly it will do. I remember it from childhood. As with Stevenson (of the Lighthouse Stevensons).
When I was young we had a 22 volumes rebound in 11 Complete Works of Kipling, from an Uncle I believe, and I had the opportunity to root around in it most of my adolescent years. Little swastikas all over the inside covers too, from India. I think I still have it in the garage. I don’t think I ever read “Kim” though. I have a complete Stevenson around here somewhere too.
“We can misuse only things which are good.” Montaigne “Of Practice”
But I have to get busy now …
Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 28 2023 17:40 utc | 323
Bemildred | Mar 28 2023 17:40 utc | 323
I cover your complete collections. What absolute treasure!
I have not read it either, but I have heard snippets of it, as my partner read it to, and used to play “Kim’s Game” with, our daughter.
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 29 2023 16:10 utc | 324
So much freedom I just can’t breathe. The US government really does not want it’s lies contradicted.
VPN Users Risk 20-Year Jail Sentences in the US Under New RESTRICT Act
The ‘TikTok Ban Bill’ targets more than just social media.
The state would be able to police all communication platforms.
VPNs would be included with violators facing up to $1M in fines.
Posted by: Hermit | Mar 29 2023 20:56 utc | 325