Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 7, 2023
Nord Stream Attack – White House Counters Hersh’s Reputation With Weak ‘Intelligence’

On September 28 2022, a day after the Nord Stream pipelines were blown up, I published the available open source evidence which strongly suggested that the U.S. had done it:

Whodunnit? – Facts Related to The Sabotage Attack On The Nord Stream Pipelines

On February 8 the legendary investigative reporter Seymour Hersh published a remarkable similar tale of the story based on insider witnesses.

Hersh: "How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline"

I then suggested some minor corrections to Hersh's version of the story.

While Hersh's story found an echo in Europe's newspapers, U.S. mainstream media did all they could to avoid it:

Scores of hits from publications across the globe pop up from an internet search for veteran investigative reporter Seymour Hersh’s claim that the US destroyed Russia’s Nord Stream gas pipeline.

But what is most striking about the page after page of results from Google, Bing and DuckDuckGo in the weeks following the February 8 posting of Hersh’s story isn’t what is there, but what is not to be found:

  •  The Times of London (2/8/23) reported Hersh’s story hours after he posted it on his Substack account, but nothing in the New York Times.
  • Britain’s Reuters News Agency moved at least ten stories (2/8/23, 2/9/23, 2/12/2, 2/15/23, among others), the Associated Press not one.
  • Not a word broadcast by the major US broadcast networks—NBC, ABC, CBS—or the publicly funded broadcasters PBS and NPR.
  • No news stories on the nation’s major cable outlets, CNN, MSNBC and Fox News.

Is there justification for such self-censorship? True, Hersh’s story is based on a single anonymous source. But anonymous sources are a staple of mainstream reporting on the US government, used by all major outlets. Further, countless stories of lesser national and international import have been published with the caveat that the facts reported have not been independently verified.

Doubts about Hersh’s story aside, by every journalistic standard, the extensive international coverage given the story, as well as the adamant White House and Pentagon denials, should have made it big news in the United States.

More important, if Hersh got it wrong, his story needs to be knocked down. Silence is not acceptable journalism.

Some papers later mentioned the Hersh story but only in other context. Still the pressure on the U.S. government and media to react to the story continued to build.

The results came today, a full month after the Hersh story, with New York Times publishing another of the usual 'intelligence' fairytales:

Intelligence Suggests Pro-Ukrainian Group Sabotaged Pipelines, U.S. Officials Say
New intelligence reporting amounts to the first significant known lead about who was responsible for the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines that carried natural gas from Russia to Europe.

All fine – except that there is no 'intelligence'. There are only claims by anonymous 'officials' to NYT reporters that some vague 'intelligence' may exist.

WASHINGTON — New intelligence reviewed by U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines last year, a step toward determining responsibility for an act of sabotage that has confounded investigators on both sides of the Atlantic for months.

U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials.

That is, so far, believable. Any combination of Joe Biden, Victoria Nuland, Anthony Blinken and various White House and NATO minions can certainly be called a 'pro-Ukrainian group'.

U.S. officials declined to disclose the nature of the intelligence, how it was obtained or any details of the strength of the evidence it contains. They have said that there are no firm conclusions about it, leaving open the possibility that the operation might have been conducted off the books by a proxy force with connections to the Ukrainian government or its security services.

Can you get any more vague?

Officials who have reviewed the intelligence said they believed the saboteurs were most likely Ukrainian or Russian nationals, or some combination of the two. U.S. officials said no American or British nationals were involved.

The explosives were most likely planted with the help of experienced divers who did not appear to be working for military or intelligence services, U.S. officials who have reviewed the new intelligence said. But it is possible that the perpetrators received specialized government training in the past.

I call bullshit on this one. Hersh has in the meantime confirmed that at the pipelines were mined at eight places and that six of the eight planned explosions went off. This was a way too big task and too difficult for anyone to do but for an experienced national military.

U.S. officials who have been briefed on the intelligence are divided about how much weight to put on the new information. All of them spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss classified intelligence and matters of sensitive diplomacy.

U.S. officials said the new intelligence reporting has increased their optimism that American spy agencies and their partners in Europe can find more information, which could allow them to reach a firm conclusion about the perpetrators. It is unclear how long that process will take. American officials recently discussed the intelligence with their European counterparts, who have taken the lead in investigating the attack.

I am pretty sure that all European intelligence services know exactly who the perpetrators were. They have all read Hersh's piece and they do have their ways to confirm it.

By the way- we are now down to paragraph 22 of the Times story and the name Hersh or a summary of his story have not yet been mentioned.

They only come in the next paragraph and only to be immediately dismissed.

Last month, the investigative journalist Seymour Hersh published an article on the newsletter platform Substack concluding that the United States carried out the operation at the direction of Mr. Biden. In making his case, Mr. Hersh cited the president’s preinvasion threat to “bring an end” to Nord Stream 2, and similar statements by other senior U.S. officials.

U.S. officials say Mr. Biden and his top aides did not authorize a mission to destroy the Nord Stream pipelines, and they say there was no U.S. involvement.

Not a word about the insider source who told Hersh the whole story, nor about the other unmentioned source who confirmed the story to Hersh. (In his autobiography Reporter Hersh writes that he always has had more than one source even when he at times could not say so.)

The purported claims of the 'intelligence' as published by the Times are no believable. That such 'intelligence' exists is dubious. This just chaff thrown up to divert the views of the public from the real perpetrators of the Nord Stream terror attack – those who sit in the White House.

You may wonder who the New York Times was chosen for the 'leak' of this smoke grenade.

In 1977 the Rolling Stone published a story by Carl Bernstein:

THE CIA AND THE MEDIA
How Americas Most Powerful News Media Worked Hand in Glove with the Central Intelligence Agency and Why the Church Committee Covered It Up

MURKY DETAILS OF CIA RELATIONSHIPS WITH INDIVIDUALS and news organizations began trickling out in 1973 when it was first disclosed that the CIA had, on occasion, employed journalists. Those reports, combined with new information, serve as casebook studies of the Agency’s use of journalists for intelligence purposes. They include:

■ The New York Times. The Agency’s relationship with the Times was by far its most valuable among newspapers, according to CIA officials. From 1950 to 1966, about ten CIA employees were provided Times cover under arrangements approved by the newspaper’s late publisher, Arthur Hays Sulzberger. The cover arrangements were part of a general Times policy—set by Sulzberger—to provide assistance to the CIA whenever possible.

Sulzberger was especially close to Allen Dulles. “At that level of contact it was the mighty talking to the mighty,” said a high‑level CIA official who was present at some of the discussions. “There was an agreement in principle that, yes indeed, we would help each other. The question of cover came up on several occasions. It was agreed that the actual arrangements would be handled by subordinates…. The mighty didn’t want to know the specifics; they wanted plausible deniability.

Nothing has changed since.

Comments

The simple and demonstrable FACT that the US is not screaming worldwide that Russia or some other actor did it, is all the proof any 1 needs that the US did it. An act of war perpetrated on Allies, what a shithole country.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Mar 7 2023 22:13 utc | 101

They got an entire month and this is all they could come up with? They all need to be fired.

Posted by: Seer | Mar 7 2023 22:13 utc | 102

Am I the only one hearing this in my head as I read all this?
Just sit right back and you’ll hear a tale // A tale of a fateful trip // That started from this Baltic port // Aboard this tiny ship // …
(That Professor was a bad dude.)

Posted by: Boris Badenov | Mar 7 2023 22:26 utc | 103

The use of trained Ukrainian nationals to actually plant the explosives is the perfect cover for the US (who is undoubtedly behind the plot) as no one in Europe will complain about Ukraine conducting an act of sabotage as they are at war with Russia (and have been opposed to the pipeline all along). Polish complicity is also a no-brainer…The above being true (Ukrainian actors) does not invalidate Hersh’s primary claim that the US is responsible, but if it is true it provides the planners and enablers some cover.
Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 7 2023 18:54 utc | 34
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So, did the Ukrainian divers lay the explosives during the NATO operation in the Baltic Sea using US Naval resources and explosives? I don’t see how that “provides” the US much cover, all though it appears that this is the direction the US and Germany are heading. I think Olaf Scholz is in big trouble and his “I know nosssing” act is collapsing all around him.

Posted by: Ed | Mar 7 2023 22:31 utc | 104

The so-called US intelligence leak and the German media investigation both point towards an anonymous pro-Ukrainian group, naturally, without any connection to the Kiev regime. So much is certain. The German report details the craft and the number of anonymous persons with fake passports of Ukrainian or Russian origin. They don’t know the nationality, but they know they were pro-Ukrainian. Wonder how they can know that. Did they carve swastikas or leave Bandera portraits scattered on the boat? The German report also mentions the possibility of a false flag. That leaves the door open to develop the story into all kinds of directions.
What’s next? A Bellingcat report based on “open source” presenting blurry pictures of former KGB agents with yellow and blue armbands trying to rent a small boat for a fishing expedition in Poland? There are no limits to the imagination.
The stories simultaneously surfaced only a short time after Scholz met Biden in Washington during which encounter the two carefully avoided the media, apparently to evade uncomfortable question that would have required them to agree on a straight lie if they don’t want to shatter the Nato alliance. Since national leaders can’t really avoid the media indefinitely, they obviously had to come up with a plan to lay a false trail.
The fact that they felt they had to come up with a cover up is admission enough. Joe, what did you think you were doing?

Posted by: Humwawa | Mar 7 2023 22:36 utc | 105

Ned Price… State Dept. spokesperson is stepping down.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/07/us-state-department-diplomacy-ned-price/5a27094e-bd34-11ed-9350-7c5fccd598ad_story.html
Good luck washing off the stench of Nuland/Blinken

Posted by: Sanctions R US | Mar 7 2023 22:38 utc | 106

X fretensis no. 82
😂🤣😂🤣

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Mar 7 2023 22:41 utc | 107

“A pro-Ukrainian Group”…..yes, they’re right….its called the CIA!

Posted by: HERMIUS | Mar 7 2023 22:46 utc | 108

Now we at least know what Scholz and Biden were talking about last week.
Posted by: El Lissitzky | Mar 7 2023 21:06 utc | 86
We know nothing of the sort. The probability that they talked about their favourite TV shows or similar topics is greater than any other suggested topic. The very fact that the meeting was presented as super secret i.e. without aides or even translators, apparently intended to convey some gravitas to the two “world leaders” ruminating about world problems, actually shows that nothing serious was discussed. Who in their right mind would trust Biden to give coherent marching orders to Scholz in a closed meeting. The script for this charade was written in advance and most likely his marching orders were given to Scholz well before the meeting.
From his actions after the meeting we can conclude what these orders were – target China. And like any other obedient employee Scholz delivered his warnings to China not to dare help Russia because there will be “consequences.” And then even had the gall to suggest that so far China is obeying the orders.

Posted by: Pagan | Mar 7 2023 22:51 utc | 109

Even if the US didn’t do this the US did it. This is a case where literal and figurative are the same.

Posted by: Bob In Portland, Ore | Mar 7 2023 22:57 utc | 110

After that the UN, and other unlikely mystic bodies will have commissions a gogo.
***
Here is Clare Daly asking for an enquiry.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1625873746434170882
Others in Germany are now getting more direct in their demands as well.
Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 7 2023 19:18 utc | 45
——————————
After the Warren Commission, the Iran Contra Commission, and then the 9/11 Commission, The Nord Stream Commission will be a walk in the park: All relevant information will be hidden from the public and the public 90 years, and the public announcements will clear all the actors except the Patsies and the victims.

Posted by: Ed | Mar 7 2023 22:57 utc | 111

hey, folks.
if any attached charges on the ns2 failed, they would not be retrieved, would they?
the undamaged line patiently awaits inspection and discovery, right?
officially ignoring this looks determined and universal
Posted by: deathistheirpower | Mar 7 2023 21:31 utc | 91
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Good point. If the unexploded charges are missing and unaccounted for, then Sweden has some explaining to do.

Posted by: Ed | Mar 7 2023 23:05 utc | 112

After the Warren Commission, the Iran Contra Commission, and then the 9/11 Commission, The Nord Stream Commission will be a walk in the park: All relevant information will be hidden from the public and the public 90 years, and the public announcements will clear all the actors except the Patsies and the victims.
Posted by: Ed | Mar 7 2023 22:57 utc | 110

The 9/11 and Warren Commissions had the patsies identified in advance. That shows how far this Administration has fallen since the days of Allan Dulles or Darth Cheney.
I’m guessing they will resort to pinning it on some Ukrainian dudes or other Foreign Mercs who died heroically in the war. If they use this plot twist in their fiction, I want a royalty payment for my work.

Posted by: Sanctions R US | Mar 7 2023 23:11 utc | 113

@Ed | Mar 7 2023 22:31 utc | 103
So far all we have is ‘he said, she said’ based on anonymous sources, so the specifics are all unverified. I find it implausible that the US wasn’t in on it, but don’t believe that the UK has clean hands either. If there were actually unexploded charges those could be traced (providing there is the incentive to do so). Russia blamed the UK right off the bat, not the US, and has reported Hersh’s claims without saying yea or nay. Maybe Hersh will fire another broadside. Don’t believe we’ve heard the last of this.

Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 7 2023 23:18 utc | 114

I would like to add/correct something in your story. Tucker Carlson of Fox News covered the Nordstream pipeline destruction before Seymour Hersh’s article and concluded that the US was most likely involved for the biggest environmental catastrophe in history. After the Hersh article, he again included a story on it and on the pipeline destruction, saying that the article backed up his suspicions that the US was involved.
October 7, 2022 https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/tucker-carlson-dont-ask-obvious-questions-nord-stream-pipeline-leak
February 9, 2023 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOqcwRTuf1Q

Posted by: Belle | Mar 7 2023 23:20 utc | 115

Here’s my question:
– Is here any benefit for the German citizens from the US control of Germany’s ruling class?
Said in another way – what good has the German ruling class, fully and willingly attached to the US establishment, “deep” and nominal, brought the German citizen in general, and in the last 15 years in particular?
One wonders, Is Germany capable of being an independent, progressive country after the long and strong US embrace?
The criminal US destruction of the Nord Stream pipeline, with all its consequences, is an ultimate act of subjugation and humiliation of the German people.A defeat like no other; a terrorist blow dealt by an ally, a mentor, an idol, a friend.
The German leadership, the representation of the German people, has accepted this crime and humiliation with silence. Heads bowed.
Now it is playing along with an unabashedly ridiculous and unimaginative tale of some Ukranian perpetrator group.
The tale, unlike the truth, will fill the NATO&All media. It works for the criminal and unaccountable Western ruling circles: Biden didn’t order it, the US didn’t do it, Scholz did not know, nobody heard or saw anything, the allied bonds are intact. The concrete perpetrators are not affiliated to any state, their identities are unknown, the masterminds remain an enigma. Case closed.
Except, the truth will not go away. And neither will the cynical humiliation of the German nation by its ally and its own leadership. This shame, yet another one, will mark German history.

Posted by: JB | Mar 7 2023 23:27 utc | 116

Ukrainian divers wot dunit.
We found a waterproof passport and an ill-fitting glove in the debris.
Case closed.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Mar 7 2023 23:40 utc | 117

@JB #115
This is your German leader of the EU.
Ursula von der Leyen – Family background – worth reading
Ukraine Hawk Who Heads European Commission Has a Nazi Pedigree She Does Not Want You to Know About
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2023/02/17/ukraine-hawk-who-heads-european-commission-has-a-nazi-pedigree-she-does-not-want-you-to-know-about/

Posted by: Don Firineach | Mar 7 2023 23:46 utc | 118

https://consortiumnews.com/2023/03/07/nyt-says-pro-ukraine-group-but-not-ukraine-blew-up-pipelines/
Joe Lauria briefly discusses the NYT article. I found it particularly pathetic that the NYT didn’t even link to Hersh’s Substack when they mentioned his own article.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 7 2023 23:55 utc | 119

Two excellent sources:
>”Media Control, The Spectacular Achievements of Propaganda,” by Nam Chomsky
>”War Made Easy — How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death,” by Norman Solomon
…from the latter….
Dan Rather, an iconic US journalist: “Look I’m an American. I never tried to kid anybody that I’m some internationalist or something. And when my country is at war, I want my country to win, whatever the definition of ‘win’ might be. Now, I can’t and don’t argue that that is coverage without prejudice. About that I am prejudiced.” So Dan brought us through the criminal war against Vietnam and the Nixon presidency.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 7 2023 23:56 utc | 120

“The work here by 99% of commentariat is reflexive, lazy, tedious and dispiriting. I can see we why the power systems suppress the opinions of general public…”
“Is there any more damning condemnation of the broken spirit of the West than the prospect of BRICS leading the charge to a more politically enlightened world? Jebus”
Posted by: Arrnon | Mar 7 2023 20:31 utc | 72
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I think what we have here is not just a Troll, but an old Troll who has been humiliated in the past and wants to spew some venom at the bar: “So hello drunks now teetering off their bar stools… “But Arrnon has “an enormous problem: how to organize its own thoughts” in order to inflict the most pain against the Bar who do not accept its imperial hallucinations. Arrnon has failed because his/her bites are like pin prinks and its logic is mush, its attacks are a will-o’-the-wisp, nothing but ignis fatuus floating above the marsh.

Posted by: Ed | Mar 8 2023 0:00 utc | 121

“…Russia blamed the UK right off the bat, not the US, and has reported Hersh’s claims without saying yea or nay. Maybe Hersh will fire another broadside. Don’t believe we’ve heard the last of this.”
Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 7 2023 23:18 utc | 113
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I agree with you about the UK, after all there was a phone call to Lizard Truss minutes after the explosion.

Posted by: Ed | Mar 8 2023 0:07 utc | 122

Hahaha haha…
So the state media rag NYTimes admits, it was NOT the Russians, but “pro-Ukrainian” group.
To the fools who accused the Russians. Do you feel like a fool?
Hahahaha…
And of course, this contradicted the earlier insinuation that it was the Russians.
It also contradicts the earlier claim that it MUST have been a state actor.
Hilarious beyond belief.
It’s official. Whoever believes the western narrative is a stupid fool.

Posted by: FieryButMostPeaceful | Mar 8 2023 0:08 utc | 123

Your language betrays what you really are, snowflake.
Posted by: Lurker | Mar 8 2023 0:08 utc | 122
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Oh! Please don’t make me hurt so bad. Really, snowflake?

Posted by: Ed | Mar 8 2023 0:19 utc | 124

@Ed 124
Well, at least he’s not wrong about that part.

Posted by: Another anon | Mar 8 2023 0:26 utc | 125

Ursula von der Leyen – Family background – worth reading
Ukraine Hawk Who Heads European Commission Has a Nazi Pedigree She Does Not Want You to Know About
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2023/02/17/ukraine-hawk-who-heads-european-commission-has-a-nazi-pedigree-she-does-not-want-you-to-know-about/
Posted by: Don Firineach | Mar 7 2023 23:46 utc | 117
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I read that, and everyone in Germany should read it as well. It is an eye opener. Also, her family connection to Slavery in the US is telling. It would make Hitler proud to know how far his ideas have advanced in Europa.

Posted by: Ed | Mar 8 2023 0:27 utc | 126

Anyone know if the two missing explosives packs turned up anywhere?

Posted by: tom paine | Mar 8 2023 0:28 utc | 127

According to Karine Jean-Pierre, « our agents Adam and Eve never went to the Baltic to bathe. As for the speculations about the role of Pinch Me… OUCH!!»

Posted by: Leuk | Mar 8 2023 0:37 utc | 128

Now we at least know what Scholz and Biden were talking about last week.
Posted by: El Lissitzky | Mar 7 2023 21:06 utc | 86
———————————-
From his actions after the meeting we can conclude what these orders were – target China. And like any other obedient employee Scholz delivered his warnings to China not to dare help Russia because there will be “consequences.” And then even had the gall to suggest that so far China is obeying the orders.
Posted by: Pagan | Mar 7 2023 22:51 utc | 108
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Mr. Pagan, I am in agreement with Mr. El Lissitzky on the point that Scholz is running scared about how to explain his support for the US destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines. China is a separate issue, but I think that China is also concerned about the hubris of the Biden White House lack of self-control and lawlessness.

Posted by: Ed | Mar 8 2023 0:47 utc | 129

Posted by: Another anon | Mar 8 2023 0:26 utc | 125
————————–
How do you know, and how would I know, if he is a he? All we know is that it is Lurker.

Posted by: Ed | Mar 8 2023 0:54 utc | 130

Below is a Reuters posting quote about China coming into this overall conflict

BEIJING, March 7 (Reuters) – The United States should change its “distorted” attitude towards China or “conflict and confrontation” will follow, China’s foreign minister said on Tuesday, while defending its stance on the war in Ukraine and its close ties with Russia.
The U.S. had been engaging in suppression and containment of China rather than engaging in fair, rules-based competition, Foreign Minister Qin Gang told a news conference on the sidelines of an annual parliament meeting in Beijing.
“The United States’ perception and views of China are seriously distorted,” said Qin, a trusted aide to President Xi Jinping and until recently China’s ambassador in Washington.
“It regards China as its primary rival and the most consequential geopolitical challenge. This is like the first button in the shirt being put wrong.”
Relations between the two superpowers have been tense for years over a number of issues including Taiwan, trade and more recently the war in Ukraine, but they worsened last month after the United States shot down a balloon off the U.S. East Coast that it says was a Chinese spying craft.

We are in a civilization war, in case any missed that memo. Its about public/private finance and barbaric (Might-Makes-Right) patriarchy versus civilization

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 8 2023 1:00 utc | 131

@ Lurker | Mar 8 2023 0:08 utc | 122
Given the increasing proliferation of chatbots, the use of “its” would seem to be not entirely unreasonable. It’s also more elegant than the clumsy “his/her”, and unlike the fashionable “their” it’s at least grammatically correct.

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 8 2023 1:01 utc | 132

According to the BBC website:
“Ukraine has denied any involvement in last September’s attack on the Nord Stream pipelines, which carried Russian gas to Europe”.
Well – We all know who did it – Don’t we !!

Posted by: Engineer-John | Mar 8 2023 1:05 utc | 133

I see no connection to NS abotage by the US. But it IS an interesting background.
Instead, the story has long been forgotten.
There were 2 Bundestags-inquiries but nothing came about those.
end of story. end of criticism.
Posted by: AG | Mar 7 2023 20:12 utc | 64
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The story is simple, and if you can’t SEE the CONNECTION to NS sabotage and the US, then that is due to your own mental deficiency. You should see a doctor real soon because you have lost your connectivity with the real world.

Posted by: Ed | Mar 8 2023 1:14 utc | 134

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 8 2023 1:01 utc | 132
————————–
Thank you, Malenkov, I totally agree.

Posted by: Ed | Mar 8 2023 1:22 utc | 135

Murica is guilty… get over it

Posted by: nook | Mar 8 2023 1:30 utc | 136

I was taught in an American elementary school that, when you don’t know the sex, you use the masculine, he/him/his. I’m not going to change how I use English just to avoid annoying some feminists.
For similar reasons, I’m not going to stop using BC/AD just to avoid annoying some Jews and secularists.
Orwell had quite a lot to say about changing language for political reasons.

Posted by: Lysias | Mar 8 2023 1:32 utc | 137

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 8 2023 1:01 utc | 132
English is more flexible grammatically than some other languages. ‘Their’ is fine as a neutral pronoun, indicating a person without indicating male or female. A similar transition is marked by the use of ‘you’ to indicate a single person when it is actually the plural. The correct form is ‘thou’, but that hasn’t been used for centuries, except in well-known religious communities in the US.

Posted by: laguerre | Mar 8 2023 1:35 utc | 138

@ Lysias: I’ll drink to that. FWIW I always told my students: If you’re referring to nobody in particular, why not just use a plural antecedent? Your “they/them/their” will be unexceptionable to everyone.

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 8 2023 1:38 utc | 139

malenkov | Mar 8 2023 1:01 utc | 132
Grammar! Who cares about that? It’s a fascist concept designed to exploit the masses. (sarc)

Posted by: dh | Mar 8 2023 1:41 utc | 140

Really, are we discussing grammar?

Posted by: Ed | Mar 8 2023 1:47 utc | 141

Posted by: laguerre | Mar 8 2023 1:35 utc | 138
“English is more flexible grammatically than some other languages. ‘Their’ is fine as a neutral pronoun, indicating a person without indicating male or female.”
Good, then ‘it’ is fine too. And it is shorter.

Posted by: hopehely | Mar 8 2023 1:53 utc | 142

@ Ed: I guess that there’s a limit to the amount of derision one can heap upon even this latest product of US “intelligence”…

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 8 2023 1:57 utc | 143

Ed @141 “Really, are we discussing grammar?”
Not you obviously Ed. You’re discussing pronouns.

Posted by: dh | Mar 8 2023 1:59 utc | 144

Posted by: the Professor | Mar 8 2023 1:54 utc | 143
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Are you saying that I am not sufficiently WOKE?

Posted by: Ed | Mar 8 2023 2:10 utc | 145

Regarding the use of it as a substitute for he or she. I think the problem (for those seeking a gender neutral society) is that it is used for animals and non-organic entities (poltergeists etc.) and has demeaning connotations. It remains to be seen how this problem will be resolved. But some really dedicated humanoids are working on it.

Posted by: dh | Mar 8 2023 2:21 utc | 146

@ Melaleuca | Mar 7 2023 23:40 utc | 116
hilarious! more funny then the grammar conversation, and that is pretty funny too..

Posted by: james | Mar 8 2023 2:25 utc | 147

well, seymore hersh response to this latest obfuscation was pretty funny too… see pacos article earlier and use translate…

Posted by: james | Mar 8 2023 2:27 utc | 148

The fairy tale yarn continues to be spun:
I wrote upthread it was the hands found in Cavendish bananas but Tanya @ Post 47 in UKR Open Thread 2023-56 hilariously writes, “It was the Dolphins.”
Seriously, the devil made them do it and they used a yacht
Investigators find vessel involved in Nord Stream sabotage – media
It allegedly belongs to a company owned by Ukrainians, German media outlets claim
RT LINK

German authorities probing explosions at the Nord Stream gas pipelines have identified a vessel that appears to have been involved in what is widely regarded as an act of sabotage, a host of German media outlets revealed on Tuesday. The yacht, which was reportedly used in the attack on the pipelines, belongs to a Polish-based company owned by two Ukrainians, according to the reports.
Germany’s ARD broadcaster SWR radio and Die Zeit newspaper launched what they called their own joint journalistic investigation into the activities of the German law enforcement authorities involved in this case.
Their findings indicate the yacht set sail from the German northeastern port city of Rostock on September 6, with the explosives and equipment for the operation arriving in Rostock separately in a delivery truck. The yacht was later identified on the Danish island of Christianso, located just north-east of the island of Bornholm, where the pipelines were damaged on September 26, 2022.
The yacht was then returned to the owners, and the investigators managed to find traces of explosives on a table in its cabin, the outlets claim. The act of sabotage was reportedly carried out by a team of six people, including a captain, two divers, two diving assistants, and a female doctor.
The identities or even nationalities of the suspects remain unclear as they had “professionally forged passports,” which they also used to rent the yacht in the first place, according to German media outlets. The German authorities have also reportedly found no evidence that might point to who might have ordered the pipelines to be sabotaged.
According to ARD, SWR and Die Zeit, a Western secret service organization allegedly tipped off some European “partner services” shortly after the explosions, saying that a “Ukrainian commando” unit was responsible for the attack. The media outlets also claimed there had been “further intelligence indications” that a pro-Ukrainian group could be behind it.
The German government has not commented on the information presented by the media so far. A few days ago, Sweden, Denmark and Germany “informed the United Nations Security Council that the investigations are ongoing and that there are still no results,” a government spokesman declared on Tuesday. Kiev denied any involvement in the incident when contacted by the German media.
Citing some anonymous US intelligence officials, the New York Times on Tuesday reported that a “pro-Ukrainian group” was behind the September 2022 attacks. “No American or British nationals were involved,” it added.[.]

There is a desperate need to deny Hersh’s bombshell and what is being put forward in denial, as we say they just can’t get their story right –
We are to believe there was no 3 letter agencies involved.
No sireee just two guys and a gal doctor. Yet just like the passport in the 9/11 “event” —those passports were found having survived fire; With the Act of War on NordStream pipelines, the culprits left behind “professionally forged passports”

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 8 2023 2:43 utc | 149

Samantha Power (USAID) admits ‘friends of ukraine’ done did nord-stream & released covid; Duh
Sure she is the most evil zionist hell bitch but she’s nothing compared to Cass Sunstein the “Brains of Obama”, her husband; ( Sunstein is an Obama Chicago bathhouse butt-buddy that got him groomed for POTUS )
It’s said that BIDEN admin is ran out of Obama’s home in Martha’s Vineyard, and its known that Cass Sunstein is his advisor; So it makes perfect sense that his wife Samantha is the public face for Obama’s admin;
So what we have seen in recent week that DOE admits that there was a bio-lab leak of COVID, somehow COVID just crawled out of a Bio-Lab and found it way to Iran, Italy, & Wuhan all on its own; Now we have NYT admitting that “Friend of Ukraine” blew up Nordstream;
Seems that everything that they denied a month ago they’re now admitting to be true;
It’s clear its time to pull the plug on Ukraine, Nuland even feels defeat; Samantha know that Ukraine is out of fighters and no rational serious person considers Obese, lazy entitled, non-binary USSA citizens capable of backing up Zelensky’s boyz;
Now its true that Zelensky’s boyz last 4 hours and they get one day of training, bussed to the front-lines and told to pull a rifle from a corpse and run find cover; If Zelensky can do this then certainly obese non-binary USSA people can be shipped to Ukraine and dumped on the front line with the same instructions;
Of course problem is BIDEN(OBAMA) would lose their base of parasites;
Never fear comrades, in the next few days NYT will report that Zelensky is corrupt and gone to Israel which has no extradition;
Neo-Con/Lib’s will lick their wounds and blame Trump for their failure to conquer Ukraine as the “New Israel”; Funny thing is that even the majority of Israelis know that Zelensky is a zionist-nazi “Jew” and refuses to give him a shekel; They know that when Zelensky talks about a “new israel” he’s talking about a zionist-nazi homeland free of judaism;
100% satanic is the zionist-nazis running DC, LONDON, Kiev;

Posted by: paracetamol | Mar 8 2023 2:49 utc | 150

Oh golly, and the Guardian (Australian edition) carries the same story, after a month of studiously avoiding it – https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/07/officials-believe-pro-ukraine-group-sabotage-nord-stream-pipelines

Posted by: Barry | Mar 8 2023 3:19 utc | 151

It’s a simple example of working the problem backward, starting with the conclusion and rewriting the circumstances so that although the result is unchanged, the sequence of events leading up to it is entirely different and other characters were the players. Situation: Nord Stream pipelines blown up. Limiting factors: it can’t have been us, and it can’t have been any of our European allies, because it’s an act of war. That being the case, who is already at war with Russia, so that it could have just been another type of battle? Ukraine. All right, it was Ukraine. But not at the state level; it must have been done by outside-the-big-tent actors, so that Zelensky doesn’t get the blame, because Europeans are mad as hell at the decline in their living standard (4.2% year-over-year for Germany) and they will cut Ukraine only so much slack – don’t want to shut off the money tap. And here’s a thought – maybe there was Russian dissident participation! To, you know, show how fed up the Russians are with Putin.
Still farcical: the notion that traces of explosives were still detectable on the table of the mystery yacht after the entire winter (the investigating countries in Europe just got done saying there was no new evidence, so this ‘discovery’ must have been made in the last few days) because of carelessness on the part of people who had professionally-forged passports and of whom there is not a single photo is laughable. But considering the overall situation, probably the best they could come up with.
And you know, because you’ve seen it before. Civil airliner, shot down over Ukraine. Couldn’t have been a mechanical failure, so it was a weapon. It must have been a Russian weapon, but it can’t be any of the new ones, because Ukraine (who actually did it) doesn’t have them. So it has to be a weapon both countries have. Problem: the Buk couldn’t have reached it from inside Russia – too far. Hence the cockamamie story of the Buk on a flatbed truck, sneaked into Ukraine to take the shot and then high-tailing it back to Russia. Same thing, just working the problem backward to come up with the desired narrative.

Posted by: Mark | Mar 8 2023 3:31 utc | 152

@ Mark | Mar 8 2023 3:31 utc | 153
A magisterial analysis. My compliments!

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 8 2023 3:42 utc | 153

Ed | Mar 8 2023 2:10 utc | 146
Wow. Can’t put anything past you, can we Ed?

Posted by: the Professor | Mar 8 2023 3:45 utc | 154

Posted by: Jeff Harrison | Mar 7 2023 18:26 utc | 17
Yep. Plus the fact this is full on deep sea diving, with all it’s needed equipment, time, and safety measures. I’m sure the highly skilled divers capable of doing this work would be fine with not only handling unfamiliar explosives, but working for some sketchy, sneaky, fly by night, possibly fanatic operators. To do a massive act of industrial sabotage, which if you don’t get killed by misadventure while setting it up, will yield you years in prison when/if you’re caught.
DEEEEEEERP!

Posted by: muttman | Mar 8 2023 3:53 utc | 155

Good, then ‘it’ is fine too. And it is shorter.
Posted by: hopehely | Mar 8 2023 1:53 utc | 142
Wrong. ‘It’ does not refer to people. That would be your personal neologism that no-one else recognised.

Posted by: laguerre | Mar 8 2023 3:54 utc | 156

A nice implausible non-story absolving everyone but some extraordinarily-skilful “rogues.”
The stealth yacht is a nice touch, completely evading the OSINT scouring of traffic in the area over the period.

Posted by: John Kennard | Mar 8 2023 4:25 utc | 157

I agree with you about the UK, after all there was a phone call to Lizard Truss minutes after the explosion.
Posted by: Ed | Mar 8 2023 0:07 utc | 121

The sole source for that text message (not call) was KimDotCom who claimed to have Admin access to her iCloud account. As if MI-6 would allow a second unauthorized access.
Why would Truss need to message Blinken if the USA were the masterminds?
Call it very unlikely.

Posted by: Sanctions R US | Mar 8 2023 4:28 utc | 158

Why would Truss need to message Blinken if the USA were the masterminds?
Call it very unlikely.
Posted by: Sanctions R US | Mar 8 2023 4:28 utc | 159
——————————————-
The NSA listens to the conversations of people and leaders all over the world (Snowden), I suspect they are not the only ones. Call it MORE likely.

Posted by: Ed | Mar 8 2023 4:54 utc | 159

The US, Germany and the rest of the West join OJ Simpson in the continued search for the truth.

Posted by: The Bear | Mar 8 2023 4:58 utc | 160

Posted by: the Professor | Mar 8 2023 1:54 utc | 143
yeah, time changes…the calendar changed… julian and gregory or whatever…and they never heard of “christ” in china or thought about organizing a calendar around christmas…like they didn’t know that WW2 started in 1939, until some Westerner set them straight.
savages, w/their different new year.
why did westerners ever stop using Olympiads for dates? i don’t know. lazy? like today, too lazy to use “thee and thou”? why bother, since the “thees and thous” all act like the same ovine you? no need to distinguish the individual from the herd.
i read somewhere that Navajo or some loser language has multiple ways to say “we”. i instantly saw thru that identity confused turd.
what did this have to do with russia? i’m not sure. i know the NFL season starts in…some months, but don’t the rooskies use a different calendar than the enlightened west? why bother? why have a different language at all? a different currency? it’s a waste. makes for lots of wasted space. too many chins in the hong kong phone book.

Posted by: rjb1.5 | Mar 8 2023 5:13 utc | 161

@ Sanctions R US | Mar 8 2023 4:28 utc | 159
There was some reporting that the RF had administrative access to her iCloud account. Her idiocy re safeguarding info, it was argued, was the reason for her removal from office. UK is does not have clean hands imo.

Posted by: suzan | Mar 8 2023 5:16 utc | 162

@ Mark | Mar 8 2023 3:31 utc | 153
yeah mark.. right on! the powers that be get writers to spin this shit to make it fit.. all lies, but they think people are too stupid to catch onto the lies… it is quite late for these kinds of lies and smacks of desperation to me…

Posted by: james | Mar 8 2023 5:22 utc | 163

IMO
Hope is fading fast . I advice to stock up this week as things are coming down soon.
Open your eyes and hearts to the one and only true god the creator. As the day of judgement is coming. Don’t lose salvation following the deceivers!
The west has aligned with Satan and thinks they can win.Their goal is the enslavement of all man kind.
Resist!

Posted by: Peace | Mar 8 2023 5:32 utc | 164

There is nothing of any importance *in* that NYTimes article.
What is important is that the deep state ran such an article at all.
They very obviously hoped that if they just ignored Hersh’s report then it would just go into the memory-hole.
If it had then there would be no need for the New York Times to prostitute itself in this unseemly manner.
So, obviously, the deep state has given up attempting to ignore the itch that Hersh has created, and decided to scratch it instead.
This is not going to work. It will do the exact opposite, since everyone will note the detail that went into the Hersh article and compare-and-contrast with the laughable vagueness contained in the NYTimes article.
This attempt at redirection will fail to achieve anything, and so the next step will be to launch a full-on boots’n’all attack on Hersch’s reputation.
Good luck with that, guys and gals.
Hersch said a month ago that all his reports follow the same pattern: initial dismissal as the work of a hack, then grudging acknowledgement that there is a case to be answered, and finally to grudging acceptance that he was right all along.
Gonna happen here too.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Mar 8 2023 5:43 utc | 165

@92 William Guff “You know the undetonated bombs have been collected by now. Someone has the explosive material, the detonators, the devices used to receive the detonation command signals, and probably detritus left at the bomb sites by the US Navy commandos who rigged the bombs.”
I imagine it went like this: the Swedes retrieved the unexploded bombs, and the USA said “Give ’em here, I’ll look ’em over”.
The Swedes would have then waited, and waited, and then finally asked what the Americans what they found.
USA: What bombs?

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Mar 8 2023 5:49 utc | 166

@ Yeah, Right | Mar 8 2023 5:43 utc | 166
i fully concur… can’t wait for hersh’s next dispatch…

Posted by: james | Mar 8 2023 5:50 utc | 167

@150 ” the culprits left behind “professionally forged passports” ”
Further exposes to come. A very hush-hush source tells me that the fake names used in those passports were:
Vladimir Putin
Sergey Lavrov
and the name used by the “female doctor” was
Maria Zakharova

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Mar 8 2023 5:56 utc | 168

Die Zeit reports that it was 6 persons in a yacht who took out the pipes lines. This sounds as credible as 19 goat herders with boxcutters bringing down a couple of skyscrapers.

Posted by: Barflyer | Mar 8 2023 6:01 utc | 169

how do i invest in popcorn futures? i await Hersh’s next with bated breath. if it wasn’t for schadenfreude i wouldn’t have no freude at all these days.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 8 2023 6:03 utc | 170

@Sanctions R US | Mar 8 2023 4:28 utc | 159

Why would Truss need to message Blinken if the USA were the masterminds?

After a order is delivered, you report to the to the boss to get your pay.

Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 8 2023 6:29 utc | 171

I think the New York Times piece is entirety accurate and should be believed in whole, with this caveat: the US is trolling the Russians, and the rest of the world to boot. They’re playing word games, and even addressing Hersh’s claims obliquely. They’re essentially saying, with a smirk, “yeah we did it, and we know you know we did it, so go ahead and prove it.”
Bernhard already pointed out the most obvious in the passage with ” U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines last year…” saying “That is, so far, believable. Any combination of Joe Biden, Victoria Nuland, Anthony Blinken and various White House and NATO minions can certainly be called a ‘pro-Ukrainian group’.”
Furthermore, this is also true if Hersh’s article is accurate: “U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials.” Of course, because the US did it.
Then we have this: “They have said that there are no firm conclusions about it, leaving open the possibility that the operation might have been conducted off the books by a proxy force with connections to the Ukrainian government or its security services.” Again true, investigations have stopped and nothing produced, other than Sy Hersh’s article. And off the books by proxy force aligns with Hersh’s assertions; not regular US military, but if working for the US, then by definition, they have connections to the Ukrainian government or its security services. Oblique confirmation of Hersh’s article. Word games.
Then we have a description of the actual persons who carried out the operation – laid the charges; did the dirty deed. “U.S. officials said no American or British nationals were involved…” and “The explosives were most likely planted with the help of experienced divers who did not appear to be working for military or intelligence services, U.S. officials who have reviewed the new intelligence said. But it is possible that the perpetrators received specialized government training in the past.” Contractors, or sheep-dipped “retired” soldiers, trained in Florida would be my guess. Again, acknowledging Hersh’s assertions with shit eating grin and a “gee I wonder who could’ve done it?” And I note the play on the word “appear” above; it’s used in the sentence as the commonly accepted usage of “belonging to something,” as in one doesn’t belong to a certain grouping. But it also has the literal usage of looking like something; the appearance of something. Clever trolling, as Hersh notes, or perhaps it was the other anonymous source, that said that “they” didn’t look like military types; long hair, beards, perhaps Arabic. For me, when I read that statement I thought, yeah, they’re trolling. And I think that this is how the piece should be read.
And fools that they are, the US administration is acting as if they seem to believe that they are operating in a US law court, hiding behind the shield of legalisms and burden of proof, as if that will protect them – far too clever by half. But things are very different now, and we are at war, and the US has thrown the international arena into a Hobbesian scenario where the veil of agreements and international law, that would otherwise protect them, has been swept away (by them!!). The Russians have clearly had it with the broken system of international organizations, that should be neutral, but that are all aligned against them; captured by the US led alliance system.
In this environment, the US is playing cute and fancy free. Laughing at and provoking the one country that could literally wipe them from the face of the earth. Thinking themselves invulnerable, daring Russia to do something about it. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Posted by: Scuppers | Mar 8 2023 6:33 utc | 172

You mean reading between the above lines?
(Could be their “get out of this mess we got ourselves into” card.)
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Mar 7 2023 22:11 utc | 99
Who would’ve thought ?

Posted by: Alex Vadim | Mar 8 2023 7:21 utc | 173

Getting or encouraging amateurs to go in and lay down one bomb, after already having had the military put in place all the needed explosives, would make a lot of sense.
“I’m just a patsy” – Lee Harvey Oswaldenskyy

Posted by: Babel-17 | Mar 8 2023 7:35 utc | 174

Pretzelattack no. 171
There’s always Sigmund.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Mar 8 2023 8:10 utc | 175

This whole NY Times article, and understanding that The Times is basically a CIA/permanent govt bullhorn cutout, makes me think of the stereotypical serial killer scenario, where the perp is egging on law enforcement by dropping clues, thinking himself so clever, that he has thought out everything and can elude discovery, yet bragging about his deeds. For me it really reads like that. It’s like watching Hannible Lector trolling Clarisse in The Silence of the Lambs.

Posted by: Scuppers | Mar 8 2023 8:24 utc | 176

@ Pagan | Mar 7 2023 22:51 utc | 108
Allow me to be skeptic about your skeptesism. The way the “counter narrative” is rolled out at the moment and given the general low qualitie propaganda (espacially in Germany) the last years, i am bye now almost certain that NorthStream was the reason for Scholz’s visit.
All of your points ar valid but somehow too complex for this sad performance. No need for marching plans or any complexeties. Dialectics dont apply in this 2d children puzzle. This was only about managing the narrative. And keeping it in a small circle. In Berlin or via telephone that circle becomes already to big (NSA,BND etc. or god forbid zee Russians).

Posted by: El Lissitzky | Mar 8 2023 9:06 utc | 177

Sorry, dan, I didn’t read far enough to see that you said it already (and better).

Posted by: Dalit | Mar 8 2023 9:12 utc | 178

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 7 2023 21:45 utc | 92
I agree that whoever has the debris from the sites has a clue as to whodunnit. Some of the sites where in the Swedish exclusion zone and I think it is telling that they made their investigation so secret that they don‘t want to share their findings with Germany.
What puzzles me is the 8 charges that Hersh claims. My understanding was alsways that it was four and by mistake two where placed on the same NS2 pipe, leaving one pipe intact. This is actually a crucial point and probably makes revisting the seismic data worthwhile.

Posted by: Schwedenstahl | Mar 8 2023 9:48 utc | 179

The unexploded ordinance on NS2 has become excruciatingly pregnant.
It would identify the father.

Posted by: too scents | Mar 8 2023 10:07 utc | 180

Posted by: Jacq, #10
»A weak gullible and docile populace is the real problem here. «
No, it is not »the docile populace«, these folks know. It is the elites!

Posted by: Jörg-M. Rudolph | Mar 8 2023 10:20 utc | 181

Dos Die Zeit say when and where we can wach that movie?

Posted by: mariva | Mar 8 2023 12:48 utc | 182

I see this thread got anono-trolled to hell and back. Lots of new names here! All saying the same thing and using the same language! “snowflake” seems to be a favorite of THEIRS. LOL

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 8 2023 19:33 utc | 183

New details about the group came out lately. A leading officer of the German millitary intelligence (Militärischer Abschirm Dienst), Hauptmann Alfred E. Neumann confirmed, that the nationality of the two divers where Polynesian. More pecisely, the two where Polynesian pearl divers. Hence they did not need special diving equipment, which made the hole operation much more easy. Neumann further suggested, that the group used gun powder instead of C4, which made the hole operation much more stealthy.
One wonders, what a group of highly motivated individuals, inspired by the values of freedom, human rights and democracy can achieve.

Posted by: Sumari Dancer | Mar 8 2023 21:57 utc | 184

@ Sumari Dancer | Mar 8 2023 21:57 utc | 186
LOL 🙂

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 8 2023 23:36 utc | 185

Would be amazing if this wasn’t an SBS or SEAL team.

Posted by: Wokechoke | Mar 9 2023 2:56 utc | 186

Can you pick up some milk on your way home?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins’ wife | Mar 9 2023 3:04 utc | 187

The case that the US was NOT involved in this sabotage is so weak that it would be laughed out of any kangaroo court on the planet
To include courts convened in Australia by actual kangaroos

Posted by: Callmelennie | Mar 9 2023 14:23 utc | 188

You said “No news stories on the nation’s major cable outlets, CNN, MSNBC and Fox News’. however Tucker Carlson on Fox did cover it.

Posted by: Terence Reeves-Smyth | Mar 9 2023 17:17 utc | 189