Nord Stream Attack - White House Counters Hersh's Reputation With Weak 'Intelligence'
On September 28 2022, a day after the Nord Stream pipelines were blown up, I published the available open source evidence which strongly suggested that the U.S. had done it:
Whodunnit? - Facts Related to The Sabotage Attack On The Nord Stream Pipelines
On February 8 the legendary investigative reporter Seymour Hersh published a remarkable similar tale of the story based on insider witnesses.
Hersh: "How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline"
I then suggested some minor corrections to Hersh's version of the story.
While Hersh's story found an echo in Europe's newspapers, U.S. mainstream media did all they could to avoid it:
Scores of hits from publications across the globe pop up from an internet search for veteran investigative reporter Seymour Hersh’s claim that the US destroyed Russia’s Nord Stream gas pipeline.
But what is most striking about the page after page of results from Google, Bing and DuckDuckGo in the weeks following the February 8 posting of Hersh’s story isn’t what is there, but what is not to be found:
- The Times of London (2/8/23) reported Hersh’s story hours after he posted it on his Substack account, but nothing in the New York Times.
- Britain’s Reuters News Agency moved at least ten stories (2/8/23, 2/9/23, 2/12/2, 2/15/23, among others), the Associated Press not one.
- Not a word broadcast by the major US broadcast networks—NBC, ABC, CBS—or the publicly funded broadcasters PBS and NPR.
- No news stories on the nation’s major cable outlets, CNN, MSNBC and Fox News.
Is there justification for such self-censorship? True, Hersh’s story is based on a single anonymous source. But anonymous sources are a staple of mainstream reporting on the US government, used by all major outlets. Further, countless stories of lesser national and international import have been published with the caveat that the facts reported have not been independently verified.
Doubts about Hersh’s story aside, by every journalistic standard, the extensive international coverage given the story, as well as the adamant White House and Pentagon denials, should have made it big news in the United States.
More important, if Hersh got it wrong, his story needs to be knocked down. Silence is not acceptable journalism.
Some papers later mentioned the Hersh story but only in other context. Still the pressure on the U.S. government and media to react to the story continued to build.
The results came today, a full month after the Hersh story, with New York Times publishing another of the usual 'intelligence' fairytales:
Intelligence Suggests Pro-Ukrainian Group Sabotaged Pipelines, U.S. Officials Say
New intelligence reporting amounts to the first significant known lead about who was responsible for the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines that carried natural gas from Russia to Europe.
All fine - except that there is no 'intelligence'. There are only claims by anonymous 'officials' to NYT reporters that some vague 'intelligence' may exist.
WASHINGTON — New intelligence reviewed by U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines last year, a step toward determining responsibility for an act of sabotage that has confounded investigators on both sides of the Atlantic for months.U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials.
That is, so far, believable. Any combination of Joe Biden, Victoria Nuland, Anthony Blinken and various White House and NATO minions can certainly be called a 'pro-Ukrainian group'.
U.S. officials declined to disclose the nature of the intelligence, how it was obtained or any details of the strength of the evidence it contains. They have said that there are no firm conclusions about it, leaving open the possibility that the operation might have been conducted off the books by a proxy force with connections to the Ukrainian government or its security services.
Can you get any more vague?
Officials who have reviewed the intelligence said they believed the saboteurs were most likely Ukrainian or Russian nationals, or some combination of the two. U.S. officials said no American or British nationals were involved.
...
The explosives were most likely planted with the help of experienced divers who did not appear to be working for military or intelligence services, U.S. officials who have reviewed the new intelligence said. But it is possible that the perpetrators received specialized government training in the past.
I call bullshit on this one. Hersh has in the meantime confirmed that at the pipelines were mined at eight places and that six of the eight planned explosions went off. This was a way too big task and too difficult for anyone to do but for an experienced national military.
U.S. officials who have been briefed on the intelligence are divided about how much weight to put on the new information. All of them spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss classified intelligence and matters of sensitive diplomacy.U.S. officials said the new intelligence reporting has increased their optimism that American spy agencies and their partners in Europe can find more information, which could allow them to reach a firm conclusion about the perpetrators. It is unclear how long that process will take. American officials recently discussed the intelligence with their European counterparts, who have taken the lead in investigating the attack.
I am pretty sure that all European intelligence services know exactly who the perpetrators were. They have all read Hersh's piece and they do have their ways to confirm it.
By the way- we are now down to paragraph 22 of the Times story and the name Hersh or a summary of his story have not yet been mentioned.
They only come in the next paragraph and only to be immediately dismissed.
Last month, the investigative journalist Seymour Hersh published an article on the newsletter platform Substack concluding that the United States carried out the operation at the direction of Mr. Biden. In making his case, Mr. Hersh cited the president’s preinvasion threat to “bring an end” to Nord Stream 2, and similar statements by other senior U.S. officials.U.S. officials say Mr. Biden and his top aides did not authorize a mission to destroy the Nord Stream pipelines, and they say there was no U.S. involvement.
Not a word about the insider source who told Hersh the whole story, nor about the other unmentioned source who confirmed the story to Hersh. (In his autobiography Reporter Hersh writes that he always has had more than one source even when he at times could not say so.)
The purported claims of the 'intelligence' as published by the Times are no believable. That such 'intelligence' exists is dubious. This just chaff thrown up to divert the views of the public from the real perpetrators of the Nord Stream terror attack - those who sit in the White House.
You may wonder who the New York Times was chosen for the 'leak' of this smoke grenade.
In 1977 the Rolling Stone published a story by Carl Bernstein:
THE CIA AND THE MEDIA
How Americas Most Powerful News Media Worked Hand in Glove with the Central Intelligence Agency and Why the Church Committee Covered It Up
MURKY DETAILS OF CIA RELATIONSHIPS WITH INDIVIDUALS and news organizations began trickling out in 1973 when it was first disclosed that the CIA had, on occasion, employed journalists. Those reports, combined with new information, serve as casebook studies of the Agency’s use of journalists for intelligence purposes. They include:■ The New York Times. The Agency’s relationship with the Times was by far its most valuable among newspapers, according to CIA officials. From 1950 to 1966, about ten CIA employees were provided Times cover under arrangements approved by the newspaper’s late publisher, Arthur Hays Sulzberger. The cover arrangements were part of a general Times policy—set by Sulzberger—to provide assistance to the CIA whenever possible.
Sulzberger was especially close to Allen Dulles. “At that level of contact it was the mighty talking to the mighty,” said a high‑level CIA official who was present at some of the discussions. “There was an agreement in principle that, yes indeed, we would help each other. The question of cover came up on several occasions. It was agreed that the actual arrangements would be handled by subordinates.... The mighty didn’t want to know the specifics; they wanted plausible deniability.
...
Nothing has changed since.
Posted by b on March 7, 2023 at 17:53 UTC | Permalink
next page »
I am pretty sure that all European intelligence services know exactly who the perpetrators were.
Exactly. And the perpetrators are so powerful that there is no response by the German government.
Posted by: Vikichka | Mar 7 2023 18:00 utc | 2
They are getting us ready. Next week they will claim it is anti-Putin saboteurs who did it, Russians of course. Like those that supposedly shot-up the border town last week.
Posted by: Jeremn | Mar 7 2023 18:02 utc | 3
It's still pretty big for them to admit Putin didn't do it at all: Moscow is going to milk this to no end and has more grounds to complain or sue, and to put pressure on Berlin to investigate and be more openly upset and asking for compensations. Pretty bigger even that this obviously means it is a US-aligned group, with most probably US knowledge if not US aid (sure, we know US was directly involved and was the main mover, but all this is a huge admission of indirect guilt and of a level of US involvement). What the heck happened, is it just mounting media pressure? Sounds a bit far-fetched to me. But I've no idea why they'd do this now. Can't even be to cover for the fall of Bakhmut and put something else on the spotlight, it won't distract the crowds but worsen the whole Ukraine narrative.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 7 2023 18:08 utc | 4
Investigative journalists from Germany have identified the presumable perpetrators: The Ukrainians did it!
No joke.
https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/nord-stream-explosion-101.html
Posted by: mk | Mar 7 2023 18:09 utc | 5
For those wishing to bypass the NYT paywall and read their obvious propaganda, here is the link.
Posted by: Sanctions R US | Mar 7 2023 18:12 utc | 6
I wouldn't be surprised if the reporters knew how ridiculous the story was, but had to hide it to get around the de facto censorship.
The clues are there.
...
Also interesting: by reading between the lines, one detects a change in US thinking. Some people are saying that the US is preparing to throw Ukraine under the bus, as the crisis worsens.
We need the skills of the Kremlinologists to figure out what's going on behind the closed doors of US foreign policy.
Posted by: bart | Mar 7 2023 18:13 utc | 7
Drowning in their own turds. Pathetic and despicable.
Posted by: JustTruth | Mar 7 2023 18:16 utc | 8
Thanks for the posting b
What an interesting counter to the Hersh piece. From what I have read it is easily shown to be BS and only makes folks look worse.
Are they that desperate for narrative control that they would resort to shit like this?
I guess so....be entertained folks
Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 7 2023 18:20 utc | 9
A weak gullible and docile populace is the real problem here.
Posted by: Jacq | Mar 7 2023 18:20 utc | 10
I think we know now why Scholz wanted to talk with Biden so urgently.
Posted by: mk | Mar 7 2023 18:20 utc | 11
Doubts about Hersh’s story aside, by every journalistic standard, the extensive international coverage given the story, as well as the adamant White House and Pentagon denials, should have made it big news in the United States.
The most widespread appearance I'm aware of was Hersh's interview on Amy Goodman's DemocracyNow! show -- which was subsequently scrubbed from YouTube for "violating community standards." That's about the size of our Hersh/NS blackout here in USA; it's a community standard.
Inverted Totalitarianism asserts itself most blatantly where it's hardly worth the trouble, upon the already demolished, infantilized consciousness of US Americans. Hersh/NS stands out as the most assertive instance yet, allowing those of us paying attention to notice on which side commentators stand. Inverted Totalitarianism this shameless separates the wheat from the chaff, exposes journalistic frauds pretending to have never heard of Seymour Hersh.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Mar 7 2023 18:22 utc | 12
Well, the pro ukrainian organization for sure has it's headquarter in Langley, Virginia...
Posted by: Calar | Mar 7 2023 18:23 utc | 13
We are not Navy SEALs, we now identify as ...
Image. (Open/Public Browse-able Telegram)
Posted by: jpc | Mar 7 2023 17:58 utc | 1
Yes, it's a pathetic effort as an official explanation. To me, it's a sign of panic.
Same with the media concentration today on the video of the Ukrainian soldier who was supposedly shot out of hand by the Russians. It's bizarre to think that these days you can make a big thing out of it; it was standard practice in the second world war; British and US troops regularly shot German soldiers surrendering, particularly if they were SS. The only difference is that they were not videoed, because that could lead to punishment. Quite why this one was videoed, I don't understand. It makes me think it a fake.
But the panic aspect also seems to me to hang over the decision to put more troops into Bakhmut. as though there's not much more behind if the line breaks at Bakhmut. A brittle hard line at the front, but not defence in depth. Although we have of course heard of the trench lines behind, but perhaps there there is no longer anyone to put in them.
We'll see; it's an impression on my part, but there is something distinctly sniffy about the present situation.
Posted by: laguerre | Mar 7 2023 18:26 utc | 16
Right. You have to get out into the Baltic, in Swedish territorial waters, you've got to have powerful explosives not normally available to the average Joe on the street, you've got to have remote detonating devices also not normally available to the average Joe on the street, and finally, you've got to do this at night because boats floating in the same spot just off the coast of that island will attract attention. Right Your average non-state actors can pull that sort of thing off especially if they are as good as your average klutzy Ukie.
Please pull the other one, it has the bells on it. ...
Posted by: Jeff Harrison | Mar 7 2023 18:26 utc | 17
'plausible deniability'.....
just put blue and yellow armbands...... on their wet suits!
Posted by: paddy | Mar 7 2023 18:27 utc | 18
When one asks the following questions, it’s hard to conclude that anyone other than the US caused the Nordstream destruction:
Who had the MOTIVATION to do it?
Who had the MEANS to do it?
Who had the OPPORTUNITY to do it?
There may have been other countries acting on the direction of the U.S., or in-concert with them, but the US was no-doubt the primary actor.
Posted by: Eddie S | Mar 7 2023 18:28 utc | 19
"New intelligence reviewed by U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines last year"
Yep!
And the U.S. government certainly defines itself as pro-Ukrainian.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Mar 7 2023 18:31 utc | 20
We need the skills of the Kremlinologists to figure out what's going on behind the closed doors of US foreign policy.Posted by: bart | Mar 7 2023 18:13 utc | 7
Not really, it is simply uncompromising hubris compounded by agency leadership that refuses to look for any win-win solution.
This was the easiest conflict ever to avoid, so one has to conclude the economic destruction of Europe and the subsequent blow-back onto the US was deliberate. Something to do with a Great Reset, but not the one they were looking for.
Posted by: Sanctions R US | Mar 7 2023 18:33 utc | 21
For convenience, here's the translation of the tagesschau article
Traces lead to Ukraine
Status: 03/07/2023 6:25 pm
German investigators have apparently made a breakthrough in solving the attacks on the Nord Stream pipeline. According to ARD information, there is no evidence as to who caused the destruction - but there are traces. They lead to Ukraine.
By Michael Götschenberg, ARD terrorism expert, Georg Heil, rbb, and Holger Schmidt, ARD terrorism expert.
According to a joint investigation by the ARD capital studio, the ARD political magazine "Kontraste", SWR and "ZEIT", it has been possible to reconstruct to a large extent in the course of the investigation how and when the explosive attack was prepared. According to this, traces lead in the direction of Ukraine. However, investigators have not yet found any evidence of who ordered the destruction. In the night of September 26, 2022, three of the four strings of the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines were destroyed by explosions on the bottom of the Baltic Sea.
Specifically, according to information from ARD-Hauptstadtstudio, "Kontraste", SWR and "ZEIT", investigators have succeeded in identifying the boat that was presumably used for the secret operation. It is said to be a yacht rented from a company based in Poland, apparently owned by two Ukrainians. The clandestine operation at sea is said to have been carried out by a team of six people, according to the investigation. They are said to have been five men and one woman.
According to the report, the group consisted of a captain, two divers, two diving assistants and a female doctor, who are said to have transported the explosives to the crime scenes and placed them there. The nationality of the perpetrators is apparently unclear. The assassins used professionally forged passports, which are said to have been used, among other things, to rent the boat.
Traces of explosives in the cabin
According to the investigation, the commando set sail from Rostock on September 6, 2022. The equipment for the clandestine operation was previously transported to the port by a van, it is said. In the further course, the investigators succeeded in locating the boat the following day again in Wieck (Darß) and later at the Danish island Christiansø northeast of Bornholm, according to the research. The yacht was subsequently returned to the owner in uncleaned condition. According to the investigations, the investigators were able to detect traces of explosives on the table in the cabin.
According to information from ARD-Hauptstadtstudio, "Kontraste," SWR and "ZEIT," a Western intelligence service is said to have sent a tip to European partner services as early as the fall, i.e. shortly after the destruction, according to which a Ukrainian commando was responsible for the destruction. Thereafter, there are said to have been further intelligence indications suggesting that a pro-Ukrainian group could be responsible.
For their research, the ARD capital studio, "Kontraste," SWR and "ZEIT" spoke with sources in several countries. Security agencies in Germany, Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands and the United States were involved in the investigation into the destruction of the pipelines. In Germany, the investigation is being led by the Federal Prosecutor General, who has commissioned both the Federal Criminal Police Office and the Federal Police.
A "false flag" operation would also be possible
Even though traces lead to Ukraine, investigators have not yet succeeded in finding out who commissioned the suspected group of perpetrators. In international security circles, it is not ruled out that it could also be a "false flag" operation. This means that traces could also have been deliberately laid that point to Ukraine as the perpetrator. However, investigators have apparently found no evidence to corroborate such a scenario.
The Ukrainian government could not initially be reached for comment. The federal prosecutor general also declined to comment. The federal government said in the evening, "The Federal Prosecutor General (GBA) has been investigating the matter since the beginning of October 2022. He thus has sovereignty over the proceedings. In addition, investigations are underway in Sweden and Denmark into the explosions, in each case under the auspices of the national authorities there. Most recently, a few days ago, Sweden, Denmark and Germany informed the United Nations Security Council that investigations were ongoing and that there was no result yet."
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Posted by: mk | Mar 7 2023 18:33 utc | 22
"New intelligence reviewed by U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines last year"Yep!
And the U.S. government certainly defines itself as pro-Ukrainian.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Mar 7 2023 18:31 utc | 20
You beat me to it! My thoughts exactly.
Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 7 2023 18:34 utc | 24
@mk 5
did you look into that debacle of a Bundestag debate about Nordstream?
I flew acros the transcript - it was embarassing.
People online keep asking me, why does your government accept this?
Well there you have the answer.
complete corruption and jongoism that has not been seen around this place in many decades.
Posted by: AG | Mar 7 2023 18:36 utc | 25
Well, that does it for the dastardly, deep diving Ukrainians.
(aka: this is our way out of a losing, surprising expensive war.)
Posted by: Elmagnostic | Mar 7 2023 18:38 utc | 26
low-confidence reports
how much weight to put on the new information
the new commonplaces...
Posted by: andy | Mar 7 2023 18:41 utc | 27
War Monitor tweets:
American journalist Seymour Hersh, in an interview with Izvestia, said that he would publish a new investigation about Nord Stream next week
https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1633148435909025800
Rather than silent the Press is about to become shrill.
Posted by: too scents | Mar 7 2023 18:45 utc | 29
here the German transcript of the embarassing farce of a parliamentary debate in German Bundestag about the Nordstream affair, ca. 2 weeks ago:
Posted by: AG | Mar 7 2023 18:48 utc | 30
Operation Mockingbird never ended. I remember it coming out in the first Gulf War that the military had its people in all the major newsrooms. Quelle surprise!
I wish master Hersh would top his illustrious career by ecposing one of the most egrarious lies in connection with "Licky Larries"lies about his movements on the day the threeling towers fell. Anuone among the barflies know a secure postal address i might tip him off on THROUGH PAPER LETTER TO HIM? RSVP!
Tollef Ås
[email protected]
T.Ås c/o Handorff
Skolestien 9
N 0374 Oslo 3
Kingdom of NORWAY/ØA NORVÈGE
Posted by: Tollef Ås/秋涛乐/טלפ וש | Mar 7 2023 18:52 utc | 32
Um, so, the Ukies launched an undeclared Act of War & act of Terrorism against Germany, a NATO member, and other partner NATO/EU nations infrastructure assets & economies ... oh, Russia too.
Um, has anyone called for an Article 5 NATO meeting re Ukraine yet re these 'revelations' ?
Only took Poland 2 hours to promptly falsely claim a deliberately Ukie fired S-300 missile in ground attack mode on Russia ... civilian casualties, a tractor & grain store ... before WH shouted, "Shut-up!"
Um, Germany & the rest will continue to fund, arm & train OUN-B Nazi's running Banderastan, in the meantime, right ? Right ?
The best cover story has a bit of truth...
I mentioned in the last open Ukraine thread that John Helmer did a podcast with a guest after the Hersh story broke and the guest said that the UK had been training Ukrainian divers in underwater operations for years. Here is the official link from 2020.
The use of trained Ukrainian nationals to actually plant the explosives is the perfect cover for the US (who is undoubtedly behind the plot) as no one in Europe will complain about Ukraine conducting an act of sabotage as they are at war with Russia (and have been opposed to the pipeline all along). Polish complicity is also a no-brainer.
The official investigations cannot forever remain in limbo in such a case where the sabotage occurred in such a heavily monitored area. The above being true (Ukrainian actors) does not invalidate Hersh's primary claim that the US is responsible, but if it is true it provides the planners and enablers some cover.
Posted by: the pessimist | Mar 7 2023 18:54 utc | 34
That is, so far, believable. Any combination of Joe Biden, Victoria Nuland, Anthony Blinken and various White House and NATO minions can certainly be called a 'pro-Ukrainian group'.
Posted by b on March 7, 2023 at 17:53 UTC | Permalink
-----------------------------------------
Good one, legitimate mockery really is important. Especially when figuring out reality:
In 1977 the Rolling Stone published a story by Carl Bernstein: (...) THE CIA AND THE MEDIA (...) Nothing has changed since.
Posted by b on March 7, 2023 at 17:53 UTC | Permalink
------------------------------------------
Posted by: Konrad | Mar 7 2023 18:54 utc | 35
Of course the "Ukrainian divers"story begs the question of how they actually reached the pipelines? The pipelines aren't just laying on the surface, they are buried. So how did they excavate places for 8 charges to be placed while clandestinely diving off of a civilian yacht? Ridiculous.
Posted by: Archimedes | Mar 7 2023 18:58 utc | 36
So let's see if I've got this right. Yevheny Poopchuk and Volodomyr Poopchenko swam out there with a grenade and a Leatherman each, took a deep breath, dived down and blew it up. They told nobody before and only one NYT reporter after.
Sound pretty solid to me.
End of story.
Or is it an intelligence test for NYT readers?
Posted by: Patrick Armstrong | Mar 7 2023 18:58 utc | 37
Brilliant! The Russians did do it, but it was the dissident Russians.
Posted by: Ludovic | Mar 7 2023 18:58 utc | 38
Ther was a time when we all thought the internet was a revoltion in freedom of speech and information.
In a few years 'they' have managed to turn 'a silk purse into a sows ear'
That is the crime of the century.
Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 7 2023 18:59 utc | 39
You can have the IQ of a toddler and still figure it out that the land of the sleaze and home of the depraved was behind this mess. And the worst thing is that they will get away with it.
Posted by: Jose Garcia | Mar 7 2023 19:02 utc | 40
More farcical moves put forth by the "Biden" administration. From the same minds that brought us balloon wars.
Clearly a pathetic attempt to divert blame from the Seymour report.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 7 2023 19:03 utc | 41
Михайло Подоляк Adviser to the Head of the Office of President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy tweets:
Although I enjoy collecting amusing conspiracy theories about 🇺🇦 government, I have to say: 🇺🇦 has nothing to do with the Baltic Sea mishap and has no information about "pro-🇺🇦 sabotage groups". What happened to the Nord Stream pipelines? "They sank," as they say in RF itself...6:39 PM · Mar 7, 2023 · 34.3K Views
https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1633160394427494415
Posted by: too scents | Mar 7 2023 19:07 utc | 42
Such desperate agit-prop as this proves that the US did it.
Posted by: nook | Mar 7 2023 19:11 utc | 43
Media blackout or ad hominem attacks re Hersh's story
VS.
Synchronized media campaign re „pro-Ukraine group did it“
You don’t need to know anything else to now know that the US did it.
Posted by: Zet | Mar 7 2023 19:15 utc | 44
We already know who will be blamed, as this will be called a falseFlag.
Because there are cries for an investigation, they have to find the culprit first. Then they have to find the helpers, then the means, and finally tie them altogether, by using "Intelligence" known only to agencies, as the sources have to be kept hidden for "security".
An "enquiry" will be held, where the "evidence" can be selected. Any contradiction or other contraindication, can then be dismissed, burnt and the record altered to fit.
The enquiry itself will be run by the chief suspects who will have a "veto" over the final ruling.
the "result" will be acclaimed by serried ranks of out-of-work journalists who are forced to take any employment to make ends meet.
After that the UN, and other unlikely mystic bodies will have commissions a gogo.
***
Here is Clare Daly asking for an enquiry.
https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1625873746434170882
Others in Germany are now getting more direct in their demands as well.
LoL when the pipes were blown I jokingly said the West will probably name the culprits of this to be none other but the pair that "did" the Skrippal poisoning. World renouned SECRET agents Petrov and Boshirov.
Today about a year later. Thats what the West is doing. LoL
Posted by: Comandante | Mar 7 2023 19:20 utc | 46
@AG: yes, it is embarassing, or in Lavrov's words, humiliating for Germany as a whole and every German as an individual.
I believe however that the Nord Stream blast affair has the potential to be the decisive crack in the "Deutsch-Amerikanische Freundschaft" (btw, in the 80s there was a punk band named like that) because it's too obvious and simply "too much". Maybe a tectonic shift.
My sense - speculation alert! - is that the NS attack provided Scholz (who I think was not informed) with kind of leverage to ease the pressure he has to endure from the US (which possibly includes personal blackmailing him on the financial scandal he's involved in). Given the Germans have sufficient intelligence evidence for Hersh's version to make the US the jackass - wouldn't it be smarter for Scholz to use this as a counter-leverage to the American blackmail than to provoke an open rift?
The Ukrainian perpetrator story is now all over the news. Who's playing what kind of chess here?
Posted by: mk | Mar 7 2023 19:26 utc | 47
Nato was dead the moment it didn't respond on one (or several) Nato countries (US, Poland, Norway, Denmark or combination) attacking another countries (Germany and other central and western European countries) critical infrastructure. Now we see the result, with record high bankruptcies, record high inflation, record high interest rates and record worse economic conditions in Europe.
The final straw for Nato will be the walking disaster, Ursula VDL as its secretary.
Posted by: unimperator | Mar 7 2023 19:27 utc | 48
the denials from the WH came minutes after the hersh report. the latest conjectures to support the denials came a month after. who are these unnamed officials fooling?
Posted by: andrewweed | Mar 7 2023 19:31 utc | 49
All From a rented motorboat
( that’s the detail that betrays the made up tall tale )
Signed a mariner
Posted by: Exile | Mar 7 2023 19:32 utc | 50
thanks b... total bullshit from the nyt... what else is new?? reminds me of colin powell front page coverage on saddam and wmd's... total bullshit... it is what the nyt and friends do.. make up shit when needed...
@ Aleph_Null | Mar 7 2023 18:22 utc | 12
i think you are onto it.. thanks...
@ mk | Mar 7 2023 18:33 utc | 22
perhaps scholz visit to see biden was about covering their asses on this... have to generate the same bullshit.. it is totally reminiscent of the novichok caper... military grade novichok means russia... and on and on the endless bullshit goes... pathetic doesn't even cover it a tiny bit... as laguerre says - 'panic' or as i am saying 'desperation' is what is happening here... they know this isn't going away, so make up some bullshit!
Posted by: james | Mar 7 2023 19:35 utc | 51
Here is Clare Daly asking for an enquiry.Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 7 2023 19:18 utc | 45
As much as I enjoy her rants, I can't help but notice that the EU Parliament Chambers are empty every time she and her sidekick speak. Perhaps there are no qualified translators for her Kildare dialect ;-)
So then it gets uploaded to social media, where only her followers and fans see it.
Posted by: Sanctions R US | Mar 7 2023 19:36 utc | 52
@paddy | Mar 7 2023 18:27 utc | 18
just put blue and yellow armbands...... on their wet suits!That would be ambiguous.
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 7 2023 19:37 utc | 53
Who's playing what kind of chess here?Posted by: mk | Mar 7 2023 19:26 utc | 47
Chess??? The game is "Pin the Tail on the Donkey", and so far Hersh is winning.
Posted by: Santions R US | Mar 7 2023 19:40 utc | 54
@28 Will
YOU MADE MY MONTH BUDDY....THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Funniest thing I've seen all year
Posted by: hedlykarok | Mar 7 2023 19:40 utc | 55
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Posted by: mk | Mar 7 2023 18:33 utc | 22
What depths (pardon the pun) can German self humiliating descend to?
Having their diplomatic correspondence comprised for years.
A war mongering German population hating green party.
A ill fitting chancellor in a suit.
A plagiarising political failure running the EU.
Where does it stop?
Posted by: jpc | Mar 7 2023 19:42 utc | 56
That would be ambiguous.
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 7 2023 19:37 utc | 53
True.
Could be your next door neighbours.
Yellow and blue!
Posted by: jpc | Mar 7 2023 19:44 utc | 57
Yup, it's a total transparent joke. Would be hilarious, if it wasn't so serious.
Meme's already floating around and rightfully, so of navy seals with captions like "we now identify as pro-ukrainian group". ;)
Posted by: knighthawk | Mar 7 2023 19:48 utc | 58
The Frogman whut did it: https://youtu.be/2IjhmpZHNGM?t=576
Posted by: UnionHorse | Mar 7 2023 19:50 utc | 59
A month since the story broke and this is the best the WH can come up with, the boat USS is the real Ship of Fools.
Posted by: Earl | Mar 7 2023 19:58 utc | 60
This is the result of five gentlemen and a lady carrying over a ton or so of military grade explosives in a small day boat and placing it next to NSI underwater. Note the distances the segments travelled.
https://twitter.com/MichaKobs/status/1633191748976476160?cxt=HHwWgIC8_cPPoaotAAAA
*
Second is the result of the explosion on the vertical piece, as positioned in the above picture.
https://twitter.com/MichaKobs/status/1633192671962382339
***
Bam,badda boum.
Posted by: too scents | Mar 7 2023 18:45 utc | 29
Thanks, took a while to find it but its true, he just LHAO. The sound clip is in English, of course.
Posted by: Paco | Mar 7 2023 20:02 utc | 62
Sanctions R US | Mar 7 2023 19:36 utc | 52
I noticed that too, but she and Mike Wallace are about the only ones who will say anything about the other MEP's. I tried (and failed) to find another speech. where she got stuck into Ursula Fon da lyin'.
***
Note that to "walk out" and just not listen appears to be the height of US and EU "Diplomacy". They also did this to Lavrov. Pathetic bunch of children with not a brain between them.. (Actually children would have been told off for being impolite).
@mk 47
I concur with your Scholz assessment.
Whether this is chess being played, I think you over-estimate the significance this thing has for the US.
It´s merely checkers.
they´re done with it.
Next project.
p.s. I found it interesting that NO ONE made any connection between NS and the alleged Russian spy affair in the Ministry of Commerce of Habeck´s in the summer. Perhaps you remember: for about 7 days, 3 weeks before NS sabotage, it was in the news:
Habeck´s people had silenced interior criticism by two senior advisors who were not willing to go along with the new anti-Russia policy by the government.
So Habeck lied, called the "spy" threat and in came internal investigation. It eventually produced nothing but destroyed those two mens´ lives and careers and killed any chance for criticism in the ministry. That you call democracy.
I see no connection to NS abotage by the US. But it IS an interesting background.
Instead the story has long been forgotten.
There were 2 Bundestags-inquiries but nothing came about those.
end of story. end of criticism.
Posted by: AG | Mar 7 2023 20:12 utc | 64
The quality of bullshit we are treated to has declined sharply in the last few decades. Too many generations removed, I suppose.
Posted by: liveload | Mar 7 2023 20:15 utc | 65
Summing up the NYT-CIA article:
After months of earnest, intense investigation, the fox has been confounded in its search for the perpetrators of massive carnage in the henhouse. However, new anonymous and amorphous intelligence reporting has increased its optimism that its own spy agencies and its weasel counterparts in Europe can reach a firm conclusion about the perpetrators. The American fox recently discussed this unknowable intelligence, in secret, with the top European weasel, who has taken the lead in investigating the attack.
The chickens themselves have not yet been eliminated as suspects, and due to obvious bias, they have been excluded from the impartial investigation. On the other hand, thus-far baffled investigators have already determined that foxes and weasels had no involvement at all in this terrorism and thus are not considered suspects. The large pile of bloody chicken feathers in the fox den, recently revealed by renowned Pulitzer Prize-winning, veteran journalist Seymour Hersh, has no pertinence whatsoever to this case.
Posted by: Doug Hillman | Mar 7 2023 20:15 utc | 66
The German reporting especially raises an interesting situation. This story line could be the means to start letting Ukraine hang. If we're going with the NYT and German reporting it almost has to be. Will the German people accept that they need to suffer to supply the same people who committed a terrorist attack against the German state?
Though I don't actually think it is a move to cut Ukraine loose. I think it's a panicked response (delayed as it is to seem plausible) by the US to divert blame. That creates a significant issue of internal consistency of propaganda. So a "pro-Ukrainian" group not at all affiliated with the Ukrainian government committed an act of terrorism/war against Germany. That still leaves the Germans with the difficult question of why it should support a country willing to attack it. The next bombshell revelation may be that it was a dissident Russian group, but that wouldn't solve the internal consistency of propaganda problem because the question remains: why would a pro-Ukrainian / anti-Russian group blow up those pipelines which is an attack on Germany, not Russia. The attack needed to be blamed directly on Russia.
It was sloppy in this regard. And even this diversion reporting is sloppy. Why "pro-Ukrainian" as opposed to "pro-Russian"? You could cook up a good story about Russian nationalists hiring former military divers to blow up the pipelines in hopes that Putin would attack or be seen as weak enough to be replaced by a real nationalist. That story could be told to make it so these Russian nationalists wanted to make sure that Russia would never reconcile with the west. Even that they were angry about Putin continuing to sell gas to Europe via NS1. That still gets you "Russians did it" and everyone in the West would nod along because Russians are untrustworthy and the place is full of evil oligarchs and such.
Posted by: Lex | Mar 7 2023 20:18 utc | 67
Thanks b,
Oh how they wish....it's move along, nothing to see here. Next we will read in Bezos' blog; "The dastardly deed was done by a few of the hands found on a bunch of Cavendish bananas."
"They" should have continued to remain silent instead of offering a lame unbelievable "a pro-UKR did it"--- even a two year old with raised eyebrows is asking; Huh, say what !!!?
There will be a lawsuit for the reputational damage. NordStream partners must be made whole.
Biden and Nuland having promised, shown intent, said they were quite capable, then boasted being pleased Nordstream is a hunk of metal at the bottom of the sea is certifiable proof USA is not only a State "sponsor of terror" but also had conduct of an Act of War and that podium perch to label others a sponsor of terror is removed.
Promised. the deed would be done. Intent. Affirmed Capability...We are capable.
And the Telltale of guilt? No condemnation of an Act of Terror against an Ally's infrastructure !!!! This, in of itself, amounts to a confession and attaches an indictment of guilt. Do not be surprised if or when Hersh's source goes public.
Next Chapter:
Gazprom and German partners to decide on fate of NordStream
https://tass.com/economy/1585163
Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 7 2023 20:21 utc | 68
Santions R US | Mar 7 2023 19:40 utc | 54
Who's playing what kind of chess here?Posted by: mk | Mar 7 2023 19:26 utc | 47
Chess??? The game is "Pin the Tail on the Donkey", and so far Hersh is winning.
Brilliant !
Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Mar 7 2023 20:22 utc | 69
They're called the Khorasan Group, an Al Qaeda affiliate, based in Syria. They previously plotted a 9/11-style attack on NYC.
Posted by: Les H | Mar 7 2023 20:24 utc | 70
"there is no 'intelligence'."
preach it b!!
is NORAD still chasing Santa? maybe that's why they missed 9/11?
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Mar 7 2023 20:29 utc | 71
Chomsky et al have analyzed the U.S. Press embargo on world opinion on matters of world importance pertaining to U.S. foreign policy for 70 years!
So hello drunks now teetering off their bar stools in staggered awakening that there's a bit of a mind control problem amongst the citizenry of the freest nation in the world.
The point being that we have to be subject to enormous mind control, in proportion to our relative freedom.
Good work b for running an outlet that encourages disconnection from the hive mind of the msm.
But once free you face an enormous problem: how to organize your own thoughts if you aren't paying someone else to do it for you... The work here aggregating references to lesser known sources is important.
The work here by 99% of commentariat is reflexive, lazy, tedious and dispiriting. I can see we why the power systems suppress the opinions of general public.
Sadly no progress has been made to expand democracy across the interwebz at large: everyone literally just copies TV in the race to capture eyes, distract with minutia, and self aggrandize. The last thing you find on the web is people working together.
But I still prefer this silly society to the Russians, who hopefully will soon go back to keeping Russia in Russia. God help them.
Is there any more damning condemnation of the broken spirit of the West than the prospect of BRICS leading the charge to a more politically enlightened world? Jebus
Posted by: Arrnon | Mar 7 2023 20:31 utc | 72
As the Band played on, why the U.S. will get away with it
Unnamed U.S. intel sources got a lifetime supply of credibility because they got ONE prediction correctly, 'Russia is going to invade Ukraine'.
You can say this was a self-fulfilling prophecy, but the point is that 'unnamed U.S. officials' said something that actually came to pass. None of their wrong predictions matter.
[not stating my opinion, I am stating when the U.S. public and MSM believe]
Posted by: Christian Chuba | Mar 7 2023 20:32 utc | 73
Sorry if another commentator has already said that, but this is almost a confession...
So, a "pro-Ukraine" group gathers some frogmen to blow up NS1 and NS2... And what about equipment? Coordinates? Did they do that just sailing fishing boats?
Even my 10 years old son knows this action was performed by a capable navy (perhaps more than one, but certainly not the non-existent-anymore Ukainian Navy). This is changing from "We didn't do that!!" to "Well, someone did it, we have just provided the means...".
Posted by: C Khosta y Alzamendi | Mar 7 2023 20:37 utc | 74
Arrnon | Mar 7 2023 20:31 utc | 72
The work here by 99% of commentariat is reflexive, lazy, tedious and dispiriting. I can see we why the power systems suppress the opinions of general public.
Couldn't disagree more, newbie. Stick around and learn.
Posted by: Doug Hillman | Mar 7 2023 20:40 utc | 75
The work here by 99% of commentariat is reflexive, lazy, tedious and dispiriting
Posted by: Arrnon | Mar 7 2023 20:31 utc | 72
There is ‘no evidence of trolling’, according to U.S officials...
Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 7 2023 20:41 utc | 76
@C Khosta y Alzamendi | Mar 7 2023 20:37 utc | 74
Even my 10 years old son knows this action was performed by a capable navy (perhaps more than one, but certainly not the non-existent-anymore Ukainian Navy).And never mind it is not the Black Sea (shhh... don't tell Liz Truss).
Posted by: Norwegian | Mar 7 2023 20:44 utc | 77
Arrnon | Mar 7 2023 20:31 utc | 72
The work here by 99% of commentariat is reflexive, lazy, tedious and dispiriting. I can see we why the power systems suppress the opinions of general public.
Emphasis mine - We the power systems - Freudian slip/subconscious typo from a State Department or NAFO affiliated concern troll?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 7 2023 20:49 utc | 78
I think we know now why Scholz wanted to talk with Biden so urgently.Yes, obviously this. I believe I've observed increased focus on China in German news (negatively, of course), so that may have been another topic.Posted by: mk | Mar 7 2023 18:20 utc | 11
I read somewhere (Anti-Spiegel?) that allegedly there wasn't even a translator during Olaf's sit-in with Joe.
Like others, I think it's part of the US plan to shift attention from Ukraine (i.e. dropping it) to China. Both domestic and geopolitics seem to make that a reasonable move. Do you remember how the "allies" (=vassals were left in the dark when the US dropped Afghanistan? I wonder how this part will play out for Ukraine.a
Posted by: Konami | Mar 7 2023 20:50 utc | 79
Is there any more damning condemnation of the broken spirit of the West than the prospect of BRICS leading the charge to a more politically enlightened world? Jebus
Posted by: Arrnon | Mar 7 2023 20:31 utc | 72
Says a guy who is clearly part of the problem. What great work have you done in your attempts to stem the tide and repair the spirit of the (usurious predatory capitalist warlike) West when you're not bitching in comments sections of blogs?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 7 2023 20:52 utc | 80
a people without a history is irredeemable - TS Eliot
how many historical parallels can the brights here at MoA come up with, to confirm, at a minimum, the plausibility of US sabotage of the pipelines? ie, this is the kind of thing the US would do, because it has? indeed, many, many times.
Stuxnet, USS Liberty, 9/11, the 1st WTC bombing ('93?), Iraq WMDs, Al Q/UBL, former Yugoslavia, everything about Israel, Chechnya, Georgia, Afghanistan, "shock and awe" in Russia, etc., etc., etc. I gotta stop. i'm just making myself want to drink. Gitmo? Drug War? war on moonshine been going on for centuries...ask the Scotch. i mean, Scottish. N is for Nordstream, Novichok, and Navalny.
BUT, many don't realize that Americans in general, many Brits, Aussies, etc., haven't a clue. or, in their ingrained skepticism and dismissive, fatalistic, cynical nihilism, are ready to kind of believe, or passively assent to, anything. and also, for many, life is too difficult to care. "hey, look, something awful in the world? well, we are about to eat the dogs here in San Bernadino, CA..."
"I'm your retribution," Donald T, at CPAC. he's so wrinkly, the opposite of irony.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Mar 7 2023 20:53 utc | 81
Let me see if I've got this right. I'm assuming Nord Stream pipeline was blown up or at least 'severed' by persons unknown. The perpetrators are not military but may have deep diving experience. They are not military but know about explosives and where to place them. They are not seeking public notoriety. They are known to US intel as 'Ukrainians' but not known or connected to the US's proxies (Zelensky et al). The destruction of Nord Stream is an act of terrorism directed against Germany by an unknown group but Germany is not worried about it. OK... got it.
Posted by: X Fretensis | Mar 7 2023 20:54 utc | 82
Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 7 2023 20:21 utc | 68
And the Telltale of guilt? No condemnation of an Act of Terror against an Ally's infrastructure !!!!
Indeed, the US' silence has been deafening for five months. Only now, a month after Hersh's detailed expose, we get this vague, meandering, and insulting evasion of guilt by CIA stenographers. Almost as bad as the lame German(?) article debunking Hersh's "plant[-]shaped charges." Better propaganda, please!
Posted by: Doug Hillman | Mar 7 2023 20:58 utc | 83
Saw an headline reading “Ukraine denies Nord Steam attack involvement”. Preparations are well under way to throw what is left of Ukraine under the bus…
Posted by: Rae | Mar 7 2023 20:59 utc | 84
Posted by: rjb1.5 | March 07, 2023 at 20:53
Remember 9/11
let's help America remember who did 9/11. not getting into the towers and explosions and all that esoterica, just the simple fact:
Uncle Sam did it. when it comes to NS2 et omnia, this is who the world is dealing with.
when will NORAD catch Santa? why can't they stop the balloon threat????
oh right, let's not forget MH17...anthrax...the FBI and the Klan...the death squads and dictators...tobacco...Steel Reserve...McRibwiches...the Maine...but i digress...crack babies...gladiator combat in prisons...anita bryant...
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Mar 7 2023 21:04 utc | 85
Now we at least know what Scholz and Biden were talking about last week.
Of course Scholz calling Biden would have been way too dangerous. Some NSA guy (at Pariser Platz) would have leaked it imediatly to Sy Hersh.
What a shitshow. No toilet too deep anymore!
Posted by: El Lissitzky | Mar 7 2023 21:06 utc | 86
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Mar 7 2023 21:04 utc | 85
9.11.2001 - Joint op: Israel, Saudi Arabia and "supporters of the Bush regime."
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 7 2023 21:21 utc | 87
Indeed, the US' silence has been deafening for five months.
Posted by: Doug Hillman | Mar 7 2023 20:58 utc | 83
Exactly. These are the same guys/gals who launched the never-ending War on Terror. Let’s list the countries starting with first letter of the alphabet.
Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 7 2023 21:25 utc | 88
@ Paco | Mar 7 2023 20:02 utc | 62
thanks using translate feature, i get this from your article.. it seems seymour hersh has seen the nyt article and also commented on it -
"What? It can not be true. Can't they be that stupid? Or can? Let me take a look at this article... Oh my God! "Special services suggest", "pro-Ukrainian"! My God,” Hersh laughed."
@ Lex | Mar 7 2023 20:18 utc | 67
that is interesting conjecture lex... but as you say - i doubt it... cheers...
Posted by: james | Mar 7 2023 21:26 utc | 89
Who had the MOTIVATION to do it?
Who had the MEANS to do it?
Who had the OPPORTUNITY to do it?
Posted by: Eddie S | Mar 7 2023 18:28 utc | 19
-------------------------------
And who the hell declared before the whole world that by God they were going to do it. All four of those things will get you convicted in almost any court in the world.
Posted by: Ed | Mar 7 2023 21:31 utc | 90
hey, folks.
if any attached charges on the ns2 failed, they would not be retrieved, would they?
the undamaged line patiently awaits inspection and discovery, right?
officially ignoring this looks determined and universal
Posted by: deathistheirpower | Mar 7 2023 21:31 utc | 91
What I find annoying about the US attack on the Nord Stream pipelines is that there were eight bombs. Six of those bombs detonated successfully. Who has the other two right now?
You know the undetonated bombs have been collected by now. Someone has the explosive material, the detonators, the devices used to receive the detonation command signals, and probably detritus left at the bomb sites by the US Navy commandos who rigged the bombs. Why is this being kept secret? More importantly, why isn't anyone in the larger public discourse even asking about those two unexploded bombs?
[Hint: They have "Made in the USA" printed all over them]
Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 7 2023 21:44 utc | 92
What I find annoying about the US attack on the Nord Stream pipelines is that there were eight bombs. Six of those bombs detonated successfully. Who has the other two right now?
You know the undetonated bombs have been collected by now. Someone has the explosive material, the detonators, the devices used to receive the detonation command signals, and probably detritus left at the bomb sites by the US Navy commandos who rigged the bombs. Why is this being kept secret? More importantly, why isn't anyone in the larger public discourse even asking about those two unexploded bombs?
[Hint: They have "Made in the USA" printed all over them]
Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 7 2023 21:45 utc | 93
Posted by: Lex | Mar 7 2023 20:18 utc | 67
Respect, Lex! I'm glad you're not working for the wrong side... ;-)
Makes perfect sense, including your internal consistency point. Actually the same public media reporter who wrote the article provided by mk in an embedded video called into question the German support for Ukraine.
Posted by: Moses | Mar 7 2023 21:49 utc | 94
Hersh has credibility and it took half a century to build his impeccable reputation.
When it comes to the US media who work hand in hand with the CIA, Pentagon and the Whitehouse, they have built a reputation of lying by omission, outright lying and suppressing information not fitting their agenda and narrative.
A wise lady named Caitlin Johnstone wrote, "What's asset without evidence can be discounted without evidence.".
Posted by: Longtrail | Mar 7 2023 21:49 utc | 95
By deduction it's easy to see who the perpetrators are by considering who has most to gain from the Nordstream Sabotage.
I love the flight chart of that P-8 Poseidon. I first thought it launched some gliding torpedoes but Hersh's story gave insight to the construction and burial if the pipes.
All fingers point to FJB and accomplices could be Britain, Norway and Poland. The USA, Norway and Poland are the most likely accomplices because they had most to gain.
I suspect FJB may be blackmailed by the creepy Kocaine Kapo of Kiev. I suspect the owners the US media outlets have been visited by men concerned about the welfare of their families and then told them that they were never there.
Posted by: Longtrail | Mar 7 2023 21:58 utc | 96
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 7 2023 21:21 utc | 87
but by now, their knowledge makes them all complicit. it's not like every congresscritter and msm desk jockey were in on it.
but they all know now who did it, even if all the details aren't clear. and they keep their yaps shut. not per se to protect their lives, but certainly to protect their ambition, status, etc., i.e., their careers.
and so, by their silence, they make repetition of similar events more likely. duh.
"let the past be the past", saint obama. unless you smoke a joint.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Mar 7 2023 22:00 utc | 97
"We already know who will be blamed, as this will be called a false Flag."
Posted by: Stonebird | Mar 7 2023 19:18 utc | 45
You got it.
The story is number one news in the German Public Broadcast. At present, it ends on all channels with the phrase: "However, it may well be a false flag operation..."
... by the evil Russ, as the good German listener extends voluntarily. ;-)
Yes, it's pathetic.
I have the impression, however, that more and more people in my home country feel very uncomfortable with the present level of clumsy standard propaganda.
Posted by: Cemi | Mar 7 2023 22:03 utc | 98
the regime mouthpiece aka new york times is telling the official denial.
do not question whose cia employs the perpetrators, or how the op was run unobserved by any local sensors
Posted by: paddy | Mar 7 2023 22:09 utc | 99
Bart no. 7
From the NYT article:
"Any findings that put blame on Kyiv or Ukrainian proxies could prompt a backlash in Europe and make it harder for the West to maintain a united front in support of Ukraine.
U.S. officials and intelligence agencies acknowledge that they have limited visibility into Ukrainian decision-making.
Despite Ukraine’s deep dependence on the United States for military, intelligence and diplomatic support, Ukrainian officials are not always transparent with their American counterparts about their military operations, especially those against Russian targets behind enemy lines. Those operations have frustrated U.S. officials, who believe that they have not measurably improved Ukraine’s position on the battlefield, but have risked alienating European allies and widening the war."
You mean reading between the above lines?
(Could be their "get out of this mess we got ourselves into" card.)
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Mar 7 2023 22:11 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
This is pathetic!
Absolutely cravenly pathetic.
Posted by: jpc | Mar 7 2023 17:58 utc | 1