Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 25, 2023

Israeli Agents, Not Russian Bears, 'Hacked' The 2016 Elections For Trump

Th Nation has a new, and way too long, piece about secret Israeli interventions in favor of Donald Trump during the 2016 election campaign:

The Trump Campaign’s Collusion With Israel
While US media fixated on Russian interference in the 2016 election, an Israeli secret agent’s campaign to influence the outcome went unreported.

The piece is by James Bamford who has revealed and written a lot about shady intelligence stuff.

Before we go into details here is a short summary of the story. A Netanyahoo aid with intelligence experience contacted Trump aide Roger Stone and fed him news of upcoming releases of the emails that were allegedly hacked from the Democratic National Council (DNC). Later similar occurred with the emails from Hillary Clinton and her political advisor John Podesta. The Israelis informed Stone of these 'hacks' before anyone else knew of those issues.

The 'hacks' were later claimed, without any evidence, to have been done by the Russians. Bamford, the author of the Salon piece, holds that up. However the details he describes, what the Israelis knew when and what they had told Roger Stone, make it way more likely that it was some Israeli entity which had acquired the emails and used them to give Trump an advantage in the campaign in exchange for political concessions.

It has never been proven that the DNC has been hacked. Many people have pointed to Seth Rich, a DNC IT administrator who had favored Bernie Sanders and was disgruntled after the DNC cheated to make Clinton the candidate. He may indeed have downloaded the DNC emails and may have given them to someone else. Later Seth Rich was murdered under curious circumstances. What I did know until I researched on him today is that Seth Rich was Jewish which may have played a role in the events Bamford tells about.

Here now is the essence of the Salon story:

While the American media and political system fixated on Russian President Vladimir Putin and his armies of cyber warriors, trolls, and bots, what was completely missed in the Russiagate investigation of 2016 was the Israeli connection. No details of it were ever revealed in the heavily redacted Mueller Report. Nor was there any mention of an Israeli plot in the similarly redacted Senate Intelligence Committee Report on collusion charges in the 2016 election, or in any of the indictments or trials stemming from the Russia charges. Nor did any mention of Israeli involvement ever leak into the press. Yet I can reveal here the details of an elaborate covert operation personally directed by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that aimed to use secret intelligence to clandestinely intervene at the highest levels in the presidential election on behalf of Trump.

Shadowy hints of the plot only became visible with the little-noticed release in 2020 of a heavily redacted May 2018 FBI search warrant and its accompanying affidavit.
Although the affidavit did not specify any individual defendants, the numerous potential criminal charges laid out in the FBI documents spoke to the seriousness of the Israeli plot.

For his intervention in the U.S. election Netanyahoo used Isaac Molho, a 'trusted aide he would send on the most sensitive missions':

The key for the Israeli agent was finding a back door—a covert channel—to Trump. Roger Stone, long a key Trump aide, fit the bill.
Another Trump aide heavily involved in the conspiracy, according to the FBI documents, was Stone’s associate Jerome Corsi, who appears to have been the original contact who connected the Israelis to Stone.
After Corsi provided contact information to Stone, the secret Israeli agent and Stone connected. Then, on May 17, the agent wrote, “Hi Roger, I hope all is well. Our dinner tonight for 7PM is confirmed. I arrive at 4PM. Please suggest a good restaurant that has privacy.” The original plan was for Stone and the agent to meet alone, but Stone wanted to bring Corsi along as backup. “I am uncomfortable meeting without Jerry,” Stone wrote, and then rescheduled the dinner for the next day.

According to the FBI warrant, the same day that Stone communicated with the Israeli agent, he began Googling some very strange terms, including “guccifer” and “dcleaks.” It would be nearly a month before those same terms would make headlines around the world. On June 14, The Washington Post reported that the DNC had been hacked by Russian government agents. The next day, someone calling himself “Guccifer 2.0” took credit for the attack. He claimed to be an American hacktivist, but according to a Justice Department indictment in July 2018, he was actually a Russian GRU employee. Soon afterward, the website DCLeaks—another front for the GRU—began releasing hacked Democratic Party documents.

There is no evidence that the GRU, a military(!) spy service, had anything to do with the 'hack', the Guccifer entity or with DCLeaks. The claims  were always evidence free and never made sense. But before these entities stepped into the world the Israeli spy briefed Roger Stone on them:

The timing implies that the Israeli agent was Stone’s most likely source of confirmed details of a Russian cyberattack on the DNC, a month before it became known to anyone outside of the Kremlin and the GRU. If that’s the case, there are two critical questions: How did the Israeli agent know, and why was he revealing the details to a close associate of Trump rather than to the Obama administration, Israel’s supposed ally?

The obvious answer is of course that there were no Russians involved and that the Israelis, maybe through Seth Rich, did the 'hacking':

On May 18, the day after Stone’s Google searches, Stone, Corsi, and the Israeli agent met for dinner at the 21 Club on 52nd Street in New York City.
The next day, the agent pressed Stone in an e-mail: “Did You Talk To Trump This Morning? Any News?” But Stone was coy. “Contact made—interrupted—mood good.”

Then, in early June, according to the Senate Intelligence Committee Report, Stone learned that Julian Assange, the head of WikiLeaks, was about to release something “big.” Stone relayed the details to Rick Gates, Trump’s deputy campaign manager, and told him that Assange appeared to have Clinton’s e-mails. Yet it wasn’t until later, on June 12, that Assange would publicly announce that WikiLeaks had “emails relating to Hillary Clinton which are pending publication.”

However it was later proven that Stone had never been in contact with Assange or Wikileaks. Someone else must have told him that Wikileaks had or soon would have the Clinton emails and would release them. It might well have been someone from the group that had actually acquired the emails:

These were the first of many tips to Stone that appear to have come from his new Israeli friend. Two days later, the DNC announced that it had been hacked by Russia. The day after that, Stone again Googled “Guccifer” and “dcleaks,” hours before Guccifer 2.0 publicly claimed responsibility. On June 21, as Guccifer released more documents, the Israeli agent notified Stone that he was in New York accompanied by a senior official and would like a meeting with Trump.
“Hi Roger,” the Israeli agent wrote on July 8. “Have you rescheduled the meeting with DJT? The PM is putting pressure for a quick decision.”

Stone seems to have had continuous contact with the Israeli agent:

As Trump stormed the Midwest for votes, Guccifer 2.0 was making final preparations for another major release of documents. On July 14, Guccifer sent WikiLeaks an e-mail titled “big archive,” with a one-gigabyte encrypted attachment. Four days later, on July 18, the WikiLeaks Twitter account notified Guccifer the data had been received and that release of the hacked DNC e-mails was planned for later in the week.

On or around the next day, Donald Trump [...] took a phone call from Roger Stone.

“Roger, how are you?” said Trump.

“Good,” Stone replied. “Just want to let you know I got off the telephone a moment ago with Julian Assange. And in a couple of days, there’s going to be a massive dump of e-mails that’s going to be extremely damaging to the Clinton campaign.”

Trump was pleased. “Uh, that’s good. Keep me posted,” he said into a small black speaker box on his desk. Sitting nearby was Michael Cohen. “Do you believe him? Do you think Roger really spoke to Assange?” Trump asked.

“I don’t know,” Cohen said. “Roger is Roger, and for all you know, he was looking on his Twitter account. I don’t know the answer.”

In the end, neither Mueller’s team nor the FBI could ever find any substantive or conspiratorial communications between Stone and WikiLeaks.

Again Stones information about the upcoming leaks was coming from the Israeli agent:

[T]here was no indication of how Stone could have known what he knew—which left only one apparent explanation: that the information had been passed to him by Netanyahu’s agent. As in the case of the DNC hack, the information was 100 percent accurate.

Then Bamford, promoting the Russian hack nonsense, puts up this weird attempt of an explanation:

There was never any evidence that Stone learned of the releases from either WikiLeaks or the Russians, but during that period both he and Jerome Corsi were in contact with the Israeli agent. Israel’s version of the NSA, Unit 8200, which employs some of the most highly trained signals intelligence specialists in the world and is equipped with advanced intercept capabilities, may well have been surveilling Russia and WikiLeaks.

The alternative, that some Israeli agents acquired the DNC emails, maybe through Seth Rich, and later got into Podesta's email account, gets ignored. It would have been easy for them to set up the Guccifer entity and to push the material to Wikileaks.

I find that way more likely than Bamford's evidence free speculation that Israeli spies had bugged the Russians and Wikileaks.

Three days later, on July 22, as Hillary Clinton was preparing to announce her choice of a running mate on the eve of the Democratic National Convention, WikiLeaks released approximately 20,000 e-mails stolen from the DNC. “I guess Roger was right,” Trump told Cohen.

Now comes the Podesta case:

On Wednesday, July 29, the Israeli agent was back in touch with Stone and Corsi and eager to connect with Trump now that the convention was over and he was the Republican nominee. ... The next day, the two spoke on the phone for 68 minutes. The following day, July 31, Stone had two phone calls with Trump that lasted over 10 minutes.

Then on Tuesday, August 2, despite previous failed attempts to connect with Assange, Corsi was nevertheless able to send a detailed message to Stone about WikiLeaks’ future plans:

Word is friend in embassy plans 2 more dumps. One shortly after I’m back. 2nd in Oct. Impact planned to be very damaging…. Time to let more than Podesta to be exposed as in bed w enemy if they are not ready to drop HRC. That appears to be the game hackers are now about. Would not hurt to start suggesting HRC old, memory bad, has stroke—neither he nor she well. I expect that much of next dump focus, setting stage for Foundation debacle.

Corsi later told Stone that there was “more to come than anyone realizes. Won’t really get started until after Labor Day.” The details, including the first indication that Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta was a target, were coming from somewhere other than Assange.
[I]t appears that Israel either had its own October Surprise planned or was aware of Guccifer’s planned release of the Podesta e-mails before the election. The day after Corsi suggested meeting with Netanyahu’s agent, Stone for the first time publicly indicated that Podesta would soon become a target of WikiLeaks—thereby predicting the event six weeks before it happened. “Trust me, it will soon the [sic] Podesta’s time in the barrel. #CrookedHillary,” said his tweet. Since neither Assange nor Guccifer was a source for either Corsi or Stone, the tweet once again points to the Israeli agent who was in communication with both of them about the October Surprise.
Around the same time, Stone had a conversation with Paul Manafort, who by then had left the campaign but stayed in communication with Trump’s political circles. According to Manafort’s later Senate Intelligence Committee testimony, Stone told him that “John Podesta was going to be in the barrel,” repeating the claim he made by tweet on August 21, and that “there were going to be leaks of John Podesta’s emails.” A few days later, on September 29, Stone called Trump, who was on the way to New York’s LaGuardia Airport in his black bulletproof limo. After concluding the call, Trump told Rick Gates, who was sitting next to him, that “more releases of damaging information would be coming.”

On October 7, WikiLeaks unleashed 2,050 Podesta e-mails that were damaging to Hillary Clinton and her campaign—just as Stone had predicted a month and a half earlier.

There was no 'Russian intervention' in the 2016 election but an Israeli intervention that was all over the place. As usual the deep state covered that up:

Throughout this chain of events—including the trial, the Mueller Report, and the nearly 1,000-page Senate Intelligence Committee Report—no hint of the involvement of Israel was made public. Despite the clear violations of US law and months of clandestine, high-level attempted interference in the presidential election, no details were released, and no congressional hearings or investigations took place. Nor was there ever a hint in the press, which remained transfixed by Russia.

The evidence, however, suggests that throughout the summer and into the fall of 2016, Israel illegally interfered in the US presidential election. A top agent of Netanyahu was secretly offering intelligence and other covert assistance to Trump to get him elected—all with virtually no oversight or scrutiny by the FBI or the US media, though both had numerous personnel in Israel at the time.

Finally, nearly 8 years after it happened, we have for the first time a reasonable explanation for the 'hacks' and releases of the Clinton, DNC and Podesta emails. Natanyahoo's agents did that in exchange for political concessions to Israel by Trump.

Those Israeli agents will have had a great time laughing about the 'Russian intervention' nonsense the U.S. public has failed for.

Posted by b on March 25, 2023 at 18:49 UTC | Permalink

next page »

“No one should take anger against one or two individuals and transform that into hatred towards millions of innocent people,” - Kanye (or just Ye) West

I fully agree, without excusing the one or two or more who deserve the anger.

Posted by: Dalit | Mar 25 2023 18:54 utc | 1

Cognitive dissonance allows American Democrats (Nazi Groupies) to complain about "foreign interference" while at the same time interfering in most other country's elections every year.

Posted by: Deplorable Dave | Mar 25 2023 19:19 utc | 2

Big Trump rally today at Waco. Check it out let it begin again!

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Mar 25 2023 19:19 utc | 3

So Tit for tat. Trump rewarded them a new capital, Jerusalem. Which obviously was intended to further punish and isolate Palestinians from the region.

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Mar 25 2023 19:44 utc | 4

Thanks b for airing this piece.

Not surprised. Son-in-Law Jared Kushner on board and deeply connected to Tel Aviv.
To be fair Israel's spying caper has been ongoing - checking up on its American employees.

Years ago I read Israel wired the WH and listens in on the conversations.

Shady Companies With Ties to Israel Wiretap the U.S. for the NSA
The NSA is growing bigger and more powerful. But behind its curtains of secrecy, the secretive spying agency is relying on contractors with checkered pasts and ties to Israeli intelligence to build out and run its massive eavesdropping operations.

= = = =

Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

The U.S. government concluded within the past two years that Israel was most likely behind the placement of cellphone surveillance devices that were found near the White House and other sensitive locations around Washington, according to three former senior U.S. officials with knowledge of the matter.

But unlike most other occasions when flagrant incidents of foreign spying have been discovered on American soil, the Trump administration did not rebuke the Israeli government, and there were no consequences for Israel’s behavior, one of the former officials said.

The miniature surveillance devices, colloquially known as “StingRays,” mimic regular cell towers to fool cellphones into giving them their locations and identity information. Formally called international mobile subscriber identity-catchers or IMSI-catchers, they also can capture the contents of calls and data use. (emphasis added)

That's paying back the billions of annual grants

Posted by: L | Mar 25 2023 19:45 utc | 5

There was no 'Russian intervention' in the 2016 election but an Israeli intervention that was all over the place.

Its dangerous to call election "intervention" or "interference" anything else than faking the result.

Posted by: Vikichka | Mar 25 2023 19:47 utc | 6

Some old sources

I have collected a huge number of sources on Seth Rich, the 2016 US presidential elections, and Russiagate and arranged them according to topic. You may find the election page particularly hillarius.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 25 2023 19:48 utc | 7

Well, now that Netanyahu is back in power and Trump is running again, wonder how this fits the picture. Will this be a big story or take a weird twist that will make some rumblings or will it just fade away in time?

Posted by: Jose Garcia | Mar 25 2023 19:50 utc | 8

This goes a long way to answer the question is Israel running American politics by the back door.
The answer is a resounding yes. Both partys.
The same in the UK.
Remember the electric interfarda under cover investigation, into USA and UK Israel lobby groups. exposed twice.
What then are the implications of this.
I expect none. They make the rules, they dont need to follow them.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 25 2023 19:50 utc | 9

US elections are 100% fraudulent. They are fraudulent when Trump "wins". They are fraudulent when Biden "wins".

In order to fix an election it is not necessary to hack electronic voting machines. The can be programmed to obtain a desired result.

Even if you assumed that Israelis hacked the voting machines, it begs the question Who told them to do it?

In 2016, the Global Bankster Cult installed Trump. In 2020 they installed Biden.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Mar 25 2023 19:51 utc | 10

That's me, Likklemore posted at No: 6

Yes a truncated entry. Apologies.

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 25 2023 19:53 utc | 11

While it is true that it has never been proven that the DNC was hacked, it HAS been proven that it was NOT hacked!!

VIPs (Veteran intelligence professionals) looked at the server and network data and determined that the speed at which the download occurred was not possible with through the internet connection at the DNC where the hack took place... the speed of the download leaves only one conclusion, that the info was downloaded to a USB thumb drive, which means that it was an inside job.

now whether or not that was Seth, is still up for debate, but the "hack" has been scientifically proven to be a false narrative.

Posted by: Oldcutlas | Mar 25 2023 19:56 utc | 12

This looks far too convenient at a time when the Israelis have totally jumped the shark on Zionist supremacism and the subjugation of the Palestinians (and even the Christians!), and the establishment is desperate to take out Trump. A warning shot across the bows for Netanyahu and his cronies (even some US Zionist Jews are complaining about Israel going too far), and a great way to undermine Trump, all via what is most probably a controlled opposition journalist. Mr. Bamford seems to have far too easy a life, and career helped by many establishment media entities (Foreign Policy, New York Times, New Republic etc.), to be a real threat to the US establishment.

The story may be true, but the reasons why it was published may have much more to do with intra-elite conflict than any search for the truth.

Posted by: Roger | Mar 25 2023 19:57 utc | 13

And with the whole Ukraine mess,an American war against Russia.
Israil has all ways been the dog that dosent bark...
It doesn't need to its got America on the leash.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 25 2023 20:01 utc | 14

Great article.

About time Trump got called out for being an Israeli shill.

The Democrats were gung-ho about the two state policy and Israel was apoplectic at the possibility.

Trumps immediate move to recognise Jerusalem as the capital was the tell all, Epstein’s extraction from prison was the nail in the coffin.

Tom Luongo has the theory that the deep state camps are split between the WEFERS (world economic forum shadow banking group) versus the US federal reservists (US Israeli hegemonists).

Trump thanking Frank Lowy for helping getting elected was the show for me. Remember this is the guy that leased the Twin Towers with Larry Silverstein.

Posted by: Johnycomelately | Mar 25 2023 20:10 utc | 15

You keep writing "Israeli" this, "Israeli" that, as though "Israel" is a separate entity from the Imperialist States of Amerikastan and not its overseas-situated de facto capital.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Mar 25 2023 20:11 utc | 16

@Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Mar 25 2023 19:51 utc | 11

In 2016, the Global Bankster Cult installed Trump. In 2020 they installed Biden.

The ruling elite is not a monolithic entity, and it certainly isn't as global as many assume, and it is also not just a bunch of bankers. The US capitalist elite stands at the top, with intra-elite conflict possible between the "international" interests of US-owned global corporations and financial entities and the more domestic oriented local US capital (real estate, domestic extractive industries, small manufacturers) - the latter represented by the Trump coalition. US domiciled corporations are predominantly owned by US citizens (the US capitalist ownership elite) while significant parts of European corporations are owned also by US citizens (including major media corporations such as Axel Springer by KKR).

Sean Starrs has written some excellent papers on this, showing how US ownership elite dominance has increased over time - including among the corporations that control much of China's exports. That's why the US hated the "made in China 2025" so much as it threatened to replace that dominance with Chinese-owned corporations and unhook the US-dominated global supply chains through which US corporations take most of the value-added (e.g. the Apple). This is happening anyway (e.g. BYD with increasing car exports etc .). This is a very informative interview with Professor Starrs:

The "Global Bankers" phrase was historically used as an anti-Jewish slur. The US ownership elite are predominantly Christian, US Jewish elites may be more visible as they were allowed to succeed in fields that are quite visible such as finance and the media but they are certainly nowhere near the majority of the US capitalist class. The European elites and Japanese elites are subordinate to the US, as has been so well shown recently by the vassal-like actions of the European elites in damaging their own economies for the greater good of the US.

Posted by: Roger | Mar 25 2023 20:21 utc | 17

Roger | Mar 25 2023 19:57 utc | 14

Roger, I thoroughly agree. A left-wing, lesser-known publication with strong political views is a good vessel for propaganda that comes from the intelligence services or the State Department at a time that the Democrats and Uniparty Republicans are desperate to prevent Donald Trump from running for president. The story contains a lot of speculation on connections, conclusions, and suppositions that may or may not be true.

The truth is that people were sick of Hillary Clinton, her lying, and her devious plans. People were sick of Obama and the endless waste of money, the forever wars, the scandals.

Posted by: Belle | Mar 25 2023 20:26 utc | 18


In writing, "What I did know until I researched on him", did you mean, "What I did not know until I researched on him"?

Posted by: David Levin | Mar 25 2023 20:27 utc | 19

Typo b:
"...Those Israeli agents will have had a great time laughing about the 'Russian intervention' nonsense the U.S. public has failed for."

Should read "..the U.S. public has fallen for."

Oldcutlas @12: Good point.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 25 2023 20:29 utc | 20

Do I believe this as laid out in the referenced article? ... I don't know ...
Could it be true? Most definitely.

In the UK during the same time period external actors were definitely at play within the UK political scene ...

Exclusive: Israel's parliamentary plot against UK politicians
Link: You Tube

As a story it was only covered (IIRC) in a lukewarm manner and with no where near the gravity it deserved.
Link: The Guardian

Instead, after a brief breeze of controversy it vanished and supporters both on the political left (including Tony Blair and a stream of Blairite MPs) and the political right joined forces with the UK's established media to hound Jeremy Corbyn from his position as leader, and eventually as a member of the Labour Party, a party now led by Keir Starmer who has steadied that particular ship and placed it back on its neoconservative course after Corbyn threatened to take it back to its left wing working class roots.

Do I believe the article as its written? I'm not sure ... but if it is inaccurate I wouldn't be shocked to find its not too far off the mark.

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Mar 25 2023 20:33 utc | 21

@13 19:57 Roger - You dropped a big truth bomb for me right there.
Cui bono?

Posted by: lex talionis | Mar 25 2023 20:38 utc | 22

@ Oldcutlas | Mar 25 2023 19:56 utc | 12

'Tis so indeed. Hence ...

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 25 2023 20:48 utc | 23

thanks b...

this ''russia ate my lunch'' story has been bullshit from the get go.... the thing with seth rich never added up..

i think Oldcutlas | Mar 25 2023 19:56 utc | 12 is right... this wasn't a hack...

now, there is no way that the story ''israel ate my lunch'' will ever see the light of day in the usa... or for that matter 'the corporations ate my lunch'' either.... bribery is legal in the usa! it is called lobbying... until the usa grows some balls, it will be business as usual and israel will never be held accountable for anything, whether it be 9-11, the clinton - podesta hacks and on and on it goes... instead it will be the forever game of ''who is the fall guy for this?'' constantly recycled...

thanks roger.. good commentary.. i agree with your quote here "The story may be true, but the reasons why it was published may have much more to do with intra-elite conflict than any search for the truth."

Posted by: james | Mar 25 2023 20:49 utc | 24

America plainly has lost eny sebalence of democracy or law and order. Do what thou wilt being the only rule. Same as in the UK.
What I'm finding interesting is how commenters are trying to own this story to fit their own personal bias.

America as a democracy has gone down the sewer, that's all we need to know and that my freands transcends party politics.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 25 2023 20:54 utc | 25

Thanks for covering this, b. With Netanyahu managing to lose support of groups like IDF reserve pilots, this itself seems like a well-timed “you might want to take a look at this, we left a trail of breadcrumbs for you”.

It’s unlikely to gain traction in the US, at least in popular media but that doesn’t mean it won’t have an effect. People are talking and everyone who might be mixed up in one end of this or another will take notice.

Posted by: Lex | Mar 25 2023 20:55 utc | 26

Chaka Khagan #4:

So Tit for tat. Trump rewarded them a new capital, Jerusalem.

Also made the U.S. the first and only country to recognize Syria’s Golan Heights as Israeli territory.

Posted by: S | Mar 25 2023 20:58 utc | 27

@ Roger | Mar 25 2023 20:21 utc | 17 who wrote
The ruling elite is not a monolithic entity, and it certainly isn't as global as many assume, and it is also not just a bunch of bankers.

I disagree with all but the " is also not just a bunch of bankers" part.

I think that the elite you are referring to are a level down from those that have been accumulating ownership in everything for centuries through the global finance system.

And it is counterproductive to discuss elimination of any group of people when it is the structure that is the problem....private finance, global or national is a cancer on our species and has allowed for barbaric Might-Makes-Right patriarchy and its spawn of male oriented monotheism and the one true way for over 2K years now.

Pope Frank with the Catholic approval of usury is another group to focus ire on as is King Chuck and all of his anti-humanistic monarchy.

The organization of society to favor an elite has run its course in our world and we are watching the adults in our global schoolyard take down that anti-humanistic bullies.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 25 2023 21:03 utc | 28

This story repeats the debunked claims that Stone had inside info about WikiLeaks. In fact, Assange had already publicly stated that WikiLeaks was preparing a release related to the election.

Posted by: N | Mar 25 2023 21:04 utc | 29

S @ 27
Yep that's probably right.
That begs the question what did the democrats offer Israel in order to win the last election.....


Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 25 2023 21:05 utc | 30

Salon? Give me a break.

Seems like a do-over to say Trump still cheated, just with Israel’s help instead of Russia’s.

Lots of timing inaccuracies in Salon article.

I’m very skeptical.

Posted by: Depewtydawg | Mar 25 2023 21:06 utc | 31

Dutch Hackers Infiltrated Kremlin’s Cozy Bear Dec. 2014

See investigative journalism by De Volkskrant. Of course the Dutch with Mark “MH17” Rutte would have been proud to share the intelligence with the White House, GCHQ and NSA. The data of the Alpha Bank was intercepted by a provider near Amsterdam … the Netherlands a major trunk of international Internet infrastructure. KPN is worse than AT&T. Mossad has a dependence at Schiphol Airport and the tapping of telephone lines has been contracted to Israel.

Have written about the collusion by UAE-Israel-Saudi Arabia to nudge Trump into the White House as RussiaGate was really IntelliGate. The NeoCon clan of George Bush and most leading heads of intelligence supported HRC for President … so did Poroshenko and Ukraine. The Internationals alliance to punish Democrats for signing the JCPOA agreement was quite strong. Everyone knows about Erik Prince, Emirates, John Bannon, Cambridge Analytica, Facebook, Israel lobby.

Was quite clear the appreciations by Bibi for naming a metro station in Jerusalem after Donald and Trump Heights settlement on the Golan.

The Congressional call for witnesses into the 2016 Election interference was limited to Russia only, all other evidence was blocked off. More than tunnel vision, simple Russophobic in all its forms. Continuing McCarthyism … making Russia a pariah state – see the Atlantic Council, Ivo Daalder and John Kerry.

Posted by: Oui | Mar 25 2023 21:15 utc | 32

Probably one of those questions that is not allowed to be asked, but I’ll ask it anyway: where does Mossad get its funding from?

Posted by: West of England Andy | Mar 25 2023 21:21 utc | 33

Israel has long owned software PROMIS that is installed everywhere.
PROMIS takes you to the Maxwell dynasty.
Ghislane. Her sister twins, and media baron father Robert.
Jeffrey Epstein was adding that extra noose of control by taking celebrities to his Lolita island.

The Maxwell Family Business: Espionage
NSA Surveillance Program: PROMIS

And. All roads lead in and out, in and out, and in-out, of Ukraine …
When “Russians” are accused… inevitably they are actually Ukrainian.
As we know, this war didn’t spring out of vacuum.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Mar 25 2023 21:24 utc | 34

Curious. How do the Israelis telling Trump (through Stone) about a leak supposedly orchestrated by some third party (Assange/Russians) equate to election interference by Trump/Israelis?

No, the only way this rises to election interference is if the Israelis were involved in the leak. The story makes no sense without that involvement.

And yes, Seth Rich was obviously involved too.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 25 2023 21:25 utc | 35

Bond girl Robbin Young and Guccifer 2.0

One mystery is now solved and the piece of the puzzle falls in place. So far I have assumed that the Guccifer 2.0 persona was created by the Hillary Team to discredit Wikileaks and blame Russia. Nothing he says should be considered true. Now it is shown that Guccifer 2.0 was a cover for Israeli intelligence and playing for Team Trump.

I have assembled a list of people who say Seth Rich is the DNC leaker. The list contains 11 names. One of them is allegedly the Guccifer 2.0 persona. In fact, Guccifer 2.0 says he received the material from Seth Rich.

The evidence is sketchy. The information comes from Robbin Young. She claims that she had a DM private chat with Guccifer 2.0 and he revealed this information. This is feasible, as Robbin Young was one of the 200 people followed by the Guccifer 2.0 account on Twitter. But why would some Israeli secret agent want to have nighttime chats with Robbin Young? You decide.

Robbin Young @Robbin_Young

SAG-AFTRA Actress | Model | ‘007’ James Bond Girl | 18 Playboy Pictorials | Author | Christian | My ‘Nude Christian’ Podcast Debuts 2021 | 🚫Politics | 🚫DM’s

Before Robbin Young could offer proof of this private communication, someone had remotely deleted the chat history from her Twitter account. She had however saved old screenshots of the conversation.

I had a small role to play in this story. Investigators like Adam Carter dismissed Robbin Young's claims as a hoax and the screenshots as fabrications. The Twitter interface looked slightly different from what direct messages would look like on the then current version of the app. I searched through hundreds of old screenshots of the Twitter DM app and found one that was an exact match for the ones Robbin Young provided. She thanked me publicly and followed my Twitter account, but did not send me any of her 18+ rated autographed photos.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Mar 25 2023 21:29 utc | 36

@ William Gruff | Mar 25 2023 21:25 utc | 35

at this point in time, all the election interference is mostly orchestrated by the intel agencies... trump has nothing to do with it, but if one party wants to bring another down - that will be how they label it... intel agencies are dominating at this point... mind you, corporations do okay too with the legalized bribery racket... it can be foreign or local election interference, but all we will hear about in the west is russia and china are interfering bs, lol...

Posted by: james | Mar 25 2023 21:33 utc | 37

Wow.. 35 comments deep and the one name that I haven't seen that would rubbish the whole preposterous tale.. William Binney.

Posted by: Herb Headlock | Mar 25 2023 21:36 utc | 38

Blinken, Nuland, Sullivan & Yellen LLC were not a dead giveaway about who runs the US?

Posted by: Wokechoke | Mar 25 2023 21:37 utc | 39

The talk about the Archimedes Group is utter nonsense. Netanyahu has the full power of government agencies, highly professional to do his dirty work.

Mossad, Unit 8200, NSO Group with Pegasus, UAE link with DarkMatter are far more advanced and sophisticated than a 2016 startup …

Posted by: Oui | Mar 25 2023 21:50 utc | 40

Well, if you didn't know or even suspect that a guy with a name like Seth Rich is Jewish, I have to seriously reconsider my opinion of you as a perceptive or well-informed individual. That is a no-brainer.

Posted by: Bernard Davis | Mar 25 2023 21:50 utc | 41

Was this a story in "Salon" or in "The Nation" (which is where the link goes)?

Posted by: blimbax | Mar 25 2023 21:56 utc | 42

Trump was Israel's controlled asset rather than Israel helping trump to get elected. They obtained information against democrats to swing the election in favour of their puppet trump. Then trump was aproched that suttle difference is the big point and crime.

Has any one mentioned once installed as president Trump proceeded hostilities heavily toward Iran. Paying his dues to his owner.
Allegedly ha ha

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 25 2023 22:00 utc | 43

@ Herb Headlock #38

VIPs!!... Bill Binney is a member and therefore mentioned by proxy.

Posted by: Oldcutlas | Mar 25 2023 22:02 utc | 44

No, the only way this rises to election interference is if the Israelis were involved in the leak. The story makes no sense without that involvement.

And yes, Seth Rich was obviously involved too.

Posted by: William Gruff | Mar 25 2023 21:25 utc | 35

Yes, all they have to do is prefer Trump, and they have obvious reasons to do so, in retrospect. Not so obvious at the time.

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 25 2023 22:05 utc | 45

Well, now that Netanyahu is back in power and Trump is running again, wonder how this fits the picture. Will this be a big story or take a weird twist that will make some rumblings or will it just fade away in time?

Posted by: Jose Garcia | Mar 25 2023 19:50 utc | 8

I believe Ron DeSantis will be the next president of the USA. no one wants any of those who have previously been involved in the global corporate controlled national government that has turned America into a target of global hate.

Its the same in Germany and several other places. The smo in the Ukraine has changed things and the people everywhere are rising..

Posted by: snake | Mar 25 2023 22:05 utc | 46

Whoever did the hacking, IMO any info it produced resulted in very few flipped votes, not enough to swing the election. A lot of people dislike (detest) Hills, and the nuggets of info about DNC insider doings influenced few votes. But the Dems had to blame somebody, because it couldn't be their sainted Hills that lost. They quickly fixated on Russia, with all the rationality of a steel trap snapping shut. And they've never let go.

Posted by: Mike R | Mar 25 2023 22:11 utc | 47

If any or all of this is true, then Israeli actions poisoned the American political well in a way that prevented any sort of accommodation between the Trump administration and Russia. Absent that, the Trump administration might have been able to change the trajectory of US/Russia relations.

Thats probably way too optimistic - but maybe. As it is, After Trump was disposed of, the Russia hate group came back to power with a vengence, further supercharged by 4 years of "Russia Collusion" hot air that acted like an injection of meth directly into the brains of the Biden administration.

Now the world is on the brink of chaos and America is on the brink of a debilitating defeat.

All of Israels enemies are emboldened and are being knit together by a resurrected power. Russia appears to have at least a partial answer to Western airpower in it's Air Defense systems. Drones have been demonstrated to be a potent and destabilizing weapon. The Woke American poison has been imported into Israel bringing the same divisions there that infect America.

Man thinks he acts to achieve his own ends. But in the end God's purposes are accomplished. And what are those purposes. Do we think we know ? Many of us read the same book and arrive at 5 different answers.

How many years will it take for the crisis to come to a head on Israels doorstep ? 1 year, 2, 3?

The "Time of Jacobs Troubles" that some hope for and others dread. What a wonderful time to be alive and be witness to. Even if it's the death of us.

Posted by: Dan Farrand | Mar 25 2023 22:21 utc | 48

I'm not gonna name names and not trying to start fights here, but some of you have no idea what you are talking about. Trump was and still remains (see Waco if you don't believe me!) We the People's choice. That is why the DS Establishment had to frame him and try to take him down. They threw everything they had at him and it only makes him stronger. His only fault, if you can even call it that, was to be too nice and a little naive about just how deep the rot goes. He won't make these kind of mistakes in his next term.

Posted by: LGB! | Mar 25 2023 22:23 utc | 49

Dan @48. 110% agree. Blessed to be a witness.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Mar 25 2023 22:26 utc | 50

It should have been Trump there with Putin and Xi in Moscow. There was a seat there with his name on it. We will have to wait a bit, but he was put here to Make Earth Great Again, and he (along with his partners in Russia and China) will go down in history as the ones who brought forth the new multi-polar world (USA, Russia, China) with the great powers each having dominion over their own continents and peace will reign for a thousand years if we can make that happen.

Posted by: LGB! | Mar 25 2023 22:27 utc | 51

The story seems whistle ish.
Normies gonna flee at the 1st j werd
Informed understand its probability
MSM wont hear about it
Haters w see this as more grist for the mill

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Mar 25 2023 22:31 utc | 52

Israel controls the media and its all about 'public perseption manigment'
Regardless of which party happens to be in their favour.
The voter must be pretty desperate If yet again they fall for the same old devide and rule trick. (Read civil war)
It's all about knowing who your enemy is.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 25 2023 22:37 utc | 53

Anyone who thinks Trump needed help to get 75 million votes (most ever for a sitting POTUS) while GD Brandon 'campaigned' from his basement has no idea how we feel here in America and probably never even been here.

Posted by: LGB! | Mar 25 2023 22:38 utc | 54

I hear there is a show called ‘The Circus.’ It follows political candidates, with added commentary. The whodunnit/Russia-gate/emails is exactly what it is: The Circus.

On manipulation, the question that should be asked before “manipulation” is considered is: Does it really matter if it was manipulated or not?
Who decides who the new emperor is going to be? Certainly not the plebs. By that logic, one should ask: were the ones whose vote actually counted, “manipulated?”

I see this for what it is: entertainment to the power of n-th degree. The Circus to distract from the real issues.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Mar 25 2023 22:58 utc | 55

Finally, nearly 8 years after it happened, we have for the first time a reasonable explanation for the 'hacks' and releases of the Clinton, DNC and Podesta emails. Natanyahoo's agents did that in exchange for political concessions to Israel by Trump.

Such "leaks" of embarrassing information are basically how it's done -- the bluntest tool in the arsenal of manufacturing consent from a compliantly credulous, magnificently manipulable polity: voters in USA. Goodness me, dredging up peccadillos of the powerful has been a US American security-state specialty since well before J. Edgar Hoover raised it to a fine art!

When every pawltishun in sight has closets brim-full of skeletons, pushing elections around with selections of somewhat-true ickiness is the easiest trick in the book (given access to media megaphones, at least). Even non-Israelis are capable of such things, I'd expect.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Mar 25 2023 23:01 utc | 56

@ 18 Roger

Global bankers mean international jewry and ostensibly Christian bankers, who are protestant and non-practicing. They make a good fuck everyone over, that is.

You need to provide some sources when you say Christians control the American Golem.

Old oil money and weapons manufacturers are big in any country. These are most likely ostensibly Christian-owned. But everywhere else, including finance, where it matters most...I see Talmudists.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Mar 25 2023 23:28 utc | 57

Posted by: Melaleuca | Mar 25 2023 21:24 utc | 34

As an aside to the PROMIS story, I got sentenced by judge who got his judgeship as a reward for his involvement in the PROMIS story: Judge D. Lowell Jensen of the Ninth Circuit Federal Court. I only found out after I was waiting for assignment to a prison in the Santa Rita Federal Holding Facility, when another prisoner showed me a book on the topic of PROMIS.

See here:

Fun finding out that the judge sentencing you to prison belongs behind bars himself. :-)

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 25 2023 23:28 utc | 58

For what reason would Israel choose loose cannon Trump over known quantity Clinton? It doesn't make sense to me. Also, there wasn't a person on the planet, including Trump himself; who thought he would actually win the election. Israel had too much to lose if they were found out by a raging, petty, vengeful Hillary with the willing power of the US military/intelligence forces behind her.

Posted by: Paul | Mar 25 2023 23:30 utc | 59

I think some one needs to get on the phone to Putin and ask him what the hell he'd do to sort it all out.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 25 2023 23:33 utc | 60

In 2016, the Global Bankster Cult installed Trump. In 2020 they installed Biden.
Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Mar 25 2023 19:51 utc | 10

They installed Obama in 2008 and 2012, and they made the Clintons financially whole after Bill's devastating Presidential terms. After killing the depression era Glass Steagall Act which allowed investment banks, insurers, and retail banks to merge, the Clintons "earned" millions for private banking speaking engagements where the Clintons promised that they would kiss the banker's ass till Kingdom come. But, hey, bankers and Israel always play both sides in politics and war.

Posted by: Ed | Mar 25 2023 23:34 utc | 61

>…”the judge sentencing you to prison belongs behind bars himself. :-)”
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 25 2023 23:28 utc | 58
Many (most) of them do, RSH, most do.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Mar 25 2023 23:35 utc | 62

Posted by: Melaleuca | Mar 25 2023 21:24 utc | 34

By coincidence, well, not coincidence, I just searched for anything on PROMIS while I was on Anna's Archive, and found this for free download:

The Last Circle: Danny Casolaro’s Investigation into the Octopus and the PROMIS Software Scandal

And this:

Report Urges Inslaw Settlement: Committee concludes evidence is strong that Justice stole software
American Bar Association (ISSN 0747-0088), ABA Journal, #12, 78, pages 25-, 1992 dec

And this:

From Inslaw to Iraqgate: Elite deviance (in the Bush Era)
Taylor and Francis Group; Informa UK (Taylor & Francis); Informa UK Limited (ISSN 0888-4315), The Justice Professional, #3, 10, pages 229-248, 1998 mar

Inslaw Investigator Appointed: Allegations of stolen software, international conspiracy dog Justice
American Bar Association (ISSN 0747-0088), ABA Journal, #2, 78, pages 22, 24-, 1992 feb

And this:

Inslaw update
Elsevier Science; Elsevier ; Elsevier BV (ISSN 0142-0496), Computer Fraud & Security Bulletin, #12, 1994, pages 7-8, 1994 dec
Wayne Madsen

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 25 2023 23:36 utc | 63

@Oldcutlas | Mar 25 2023 19:56 utc | 12

Nothing like this is ever proven. If the nighty backup were copied, transmitted, and then restored on another machine, and copied to a thumb drive there, the timing of the file creations would be the same. I don't think that it happened that way, but it could have, even if it was Seth that made the copy. Actually, thinking more about it, I might have done it that way. The extra disk access and CPU cycles of doing a full copy could have alerted somebody.

Posted by: barstool | Mar 25 2023 23:39 utc | 64

Posted by: Paul | Mar 25 2023 23:30 utc | 59

Do you not know who Trump's son-in-law is? Or how Trump massively supported Israel all during his term? The Israeli Justice Minister herself stated, in reference to seizing more of Palestine, "There is no better time."

Ayelet Shaked urges Israel to take advantage of Trump and annex West Bank

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 25 2023 23:40 utc | 65

I find it strange that people look at Jews as a single coherent people. Have you ever tried to follow Israli politics? It's like watching a group of six year olds playing soccer without uniforms where no players are sure who is on their team or which goal is theirs. "Swarm ball!"

Jews can't agree on religious issues. There are many different views and sects. A major portion of the Jews in Israel came from all over the world in the last few generations. They have very different backgrounds and ideals. The Jews are almost as divided as are the Christians. Look at any Protestant church: a large number of church members will not be sure that the pastor is saved.

Posted by: barstool | Mar 25 2023 23:51 utc | 66

Has any one seen this....>cia-cia-mossad

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 25 2023 23:56 utc | 67

From an interview between Putin and Oliver Stone re RussiaGate:

„All theories about Russia influencing the election results in the United States are lies. We recognize, of course, that this campaign to manipulate information has a number of goals: First, it's to question whether Trump became president in a legitimate way. Second, to create an environment in which it is impossible for us to normalize our relations with the United States. And third, they want to get another weapon for a domestic political battle. In this context, relations between Russia and the U.S. are nothing but another tool for this domestic political battle.“


The story may be true, but the reasons why it was published may have much more to do with intra-elite conflict than any search for the truth.

Posted by: Roger | Mar 25 2023 19:57 utc | 13

Exactly and one always has to ask: why now? who gains from that publication at this time?

Posted by: Zet | Mar 25 2023 23:59 utc | 68

Posted by: barstool | Mar 25 2023 23:39 utc | 64

What matters with the VIPS proof is that the official story, which is that Wikileaks obtained the files over the Internet, has been proven to not be true. The important thing is not the thumb drive time stamps, but the test of transmission over the Internet VIPS did. It's unlikely that anyone could have, at that time, been able to transfer the files over the Internet and gotten those time stamps. So the point is the official story was not true, not that it explains how the files got there.

It IS just possible that someone with access to high-speed direct connections - such as a government might have - might have attained the necessary speeds, however. However, if it was the Russians, I don't see them using Russian diplomatic facility communications to transfer them directly to either Wikileaks or a connection in Europe, not with NSA monitoring everything, even allowing for encryption of official traffic.

If I were the Russians - or anyone else - I would have used WiFi access to the DNC network, which presumably has a WiFi network, from a location near to the DNC network, and which could not be monitored by the NSA. Then the data would have been copied to a flash drive or portable hard drive for further transmission.

And of course, there's the statement by Craig Murray, which was unfortunately very vague, that he played a part in the transmission of those files to Wikileaks from an intermediary, which further supports the idea that the files were not transmitted over the Internet or that Russians had anything to do with it.

The unresolved question is: who was the source and who was involved in their transmission? Would Murray have known if it was an Israeli agent? Would Rich have known if he were approached by an Israeli agent to steal the files? An Israeli agent could have told him he was from Wikileaks in a false flag approach.

There is also the lawsuit involving Fox News about the claims that there is an FBI report that says Rich's PC had evidence on it that he was in contact with Wikileaks. It's possible that Israel knew about that and sent an agent to Rich claiming to be from Wikileaks. It's even possible that Israeli agents hacked Rich's PC and planted that evidence to throw suspicion off themselves. Seymour Hersh looked into this, but then vehemently denied he'd ever stated that the FBI had such a a report, despite an audio conversation which I've heard between him and the Texas individual, also involved in the law suit, he'd called about the Fox News report which suggested that he did in fact make such a claim. In fact, arguing over that issue with Colonel Pat Lang, who knows Hersh well, got me banned from his site. :-)

Lest anyone think these possibilities are too unlikely, remember what I always say: The level of obfuscation, misdirection and manipulation in both espionage and hacking renders it almost impossible to establish attribution for an incident.

I've long said that Assange should violate Wikileak's rule about revealing sources given the importance of this issue. However, aside from dropping hints like offering a reward for Rich's killer, he has refused to do so. Apparently the fact that it is alleged that Aaron Rich, Rich's brother, is still alive may be preventing Assange from doing do.

In short, we'll almost certainly never know unless someone from Wikileaks or the Rich family or someone else gets disgruntled and spills the beans.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 25 2023 23:59 utc | 69

This story strikes me as a tempest in a teapot. I would say that the primary reason Trump was elected was that his pledges to drain the swamp and to reduce the federal deficit resonated with so much of the electorate, that even the opposition's weaponization of the FBI and CIA and copious vote fraud couldn't keep him out of the White House.

So why is The Nation pushing this now? I suspect it's an attempt to weaken support for Trump and/or possibly misdirect from allegations of Democrat vote fraud that the corporate media could otherwise no longer ignore without looking even more ridiculous than they already do.

Posted by: David Levin | Mar 26 2023 0:09 utc | 70

Posted by: David Levin | Mar 26 2023 0:09 utc | 70
"an attempt to weaken support for Trump"

Doesn't mean it's not true.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 26 2023 0:24 utc | 71

So why is The Nation pushing this now? I suspect it's an attempt to weaken support for Trump and/or possibly misdirect from allegations of Democrat vote fraud that the corporate media could otherwise no longer ignore without looking even more ridiculous than they already do.

Posted by: David Levin | Mar 26 2023 0:09 utc | 70

Agree, stop Trump. I would hazard a disagreement in the pro-Israel camp over how to proceed in the current situation. Perhaps over Bibi and his recent antics.

Posted by: Bemildred | Mar 26 2023 0:41 utc | 72

@Posted by: lex talionis | Mar 25 2023 20:38 utc | 22

Roger - You dropped a big truth bomb for me right there. Cui bono?

The internationalist part of the elite, big corporations and financiers that have benefitted from plundering the globe and more recently outsourcing the US worker to much cheaper alternatives. Just look at whole rules the state that Biden used to represent (Delware, the du Ponts), what Biden used to be called (The Senator from MBNA), who Obama bailed out in 2008, who supported the Clinton "Foundation", who props up the Republicans In Name Only, who benefits from endless wars (the MIC).

@Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 25 2023 21:03 utc | 28

The organization of society to favor an elite has run its course in our world and we are watching the adults in our global schoolyard take down that anti-humanistic bullies.

May it become so. I am reading an excellent book called "Founding Finance" how the merchants and large land holders in American colonial times gathered so much wealth to themselves through debt and land manipulation, then wrote a constitution that was wildly to their benefit. There is so much hidden wealth, including in the Catholic Church (and the British royal family) that it can be hard to see who the real rulers are.

@Posted by: NemesisCalling | Mar 25 2023 23:28 utc | 57

Old oil money and weapons manufacturers are big in any country. These are most likely ostensibly Christian-owned. But everywhere else, including finance, where it matters most...I see Talmudists.

I will not engage in such anti-semitic rabbit holes

Posted by: Roger | Mar 26 2023 0:43 utc | 73

@Richard Steven Hack | Mar 25 2023 23:59 utc | 69

"The level of obfuscation, misdirection and manipulation in both espionage and hacking renders it almost impossible to establish attribution for an incident."

I agree wholehartedly.

I often automatically copied the regular backups to an offsite system. It's possible that the server from which the data was taken wasn't even the server at which everyone was looking. When the leak was noticed, somebody might have stopped the copying of the backups. The timestamps indicate, but don't seem to prove, much.

Posted by: barstool | Mar 26 2023 0:47 utc | 74

@ 73 Roger

Yet you are happy to blame the American Golem's rampage on Christians, solely.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Mar 26 2023 0:52 utc | 75

Yet you are happy to blame the American Golem's rampage on Christians, solely.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Mar 26 2023 0:52 utc | 75

And why wouldn't he, at least *primarily*?

A Brief History of America That You Won’t Learn in a University

One of the more popular historical myths embedded in the American consciousness by the propaganda machine relates to the migration of settlers to the New World, the narrative detailing how hundreds of thousands of the virtuous oppressed flocked to the dockyards in a headlong rush for freedom and opportunity. There may indeed have been five or six such persons, but a much larger group was there to escape the hangman and jailer and an even larger selection were slave traders, hookers, and budding capitalist scam artists looking for greener pastures. When we add in the vast numbers hoping to escape justified persecution for their perverted witches-brew versions of Christianity, the first Americans were hardly role models for a new nation. The evidence is more clearly on the side of criminals, losers and misfits, religious whackos and opportunists than on the mythical oppressed. And, for the record, there is no evidence whatever of settlers emigrating to America in search of either “freedom” or “opportunity”, at least not within the current meaning of these words.

Good mental health was not a prerequisite for European settlers emigrating to the New World. We are fond of reminding ourselves that Australia was (and mostly still is) populated primarily with murderers, thieves and sexual perverts, but the immigrants to America were not noticeably better. Indeed, the inscription on the Statue of Liberty got the words more or less correct in referring to “the wretched refuse of your teeming shore”. While the Australians had their serial killers and muggers, the Europeans went one better with their Christian extremists who spent their weekdays burning witches and killing Indians, and their Sundays in church thanking God for the opportunity. The Australians have marginally improved their habits over the centuries while the Americans have not.

America is widely accepted, and indeed even prides itself, on being a deeply Christian country, with 65% or more of the population declaring religion important in their lives. This would be supported by history, since the major migrations to the New World consisted of a long list of flaky religious sects whose primary goal in emigration was the opportunity to build a society entirely based on those isolationist and extremist heresies. It is probably safe to say that Salem witchcraft was the seedbed in which the peculiarly American version of Christian theology sprouted and flourished, and which also served as a practical introduction to mass hysteria which would later be so usefully applied to the concepts of patriotism and democracy. The enduring echoes of this religious ancestry have been highly influential in all of subsequent American history.

The Preamble to the American Declaration of Independence (“The most famous words in the English language”, if you’re American; just another Hello Kitty greeting card, if you’re not), states: “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all White Men were created superior and are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, the most important of which is slavery”. In the recent history of the modern world, only two nations of people have so thoroughly embraced slavery as to have practiced it on an immense scale for hundreds of years: the Christians in America and the Dalai Lamas in Tibet. And only these two groups so cherished slavery in their hearts they fought a civil war over the right to maintain it. It is hardly a moral selling point that both sets of racist bigots lost the war and, while Mao cleaned up Tibet, the racism and bigotry persisted in America, often violently, for another 200 years and is still widely in evidence today. Christian virtue does not die easily.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 26 2023 1:53 utc | 76

If this is true, many pieces of the puzzle begin to make sense. Netanyahu orchestrating Trump could explain why Obama orchestrated Biden's Presidency.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Mar 26 2023 1:54 utc | 77

Contrarian ahead!

Maybe, maybe not, extremely doubtful.

I don't see any "evidence", only claims and narrative. This time pointing at Israelis.

I wasn't planning on drinking (Danish non-hipster mead! Only tasting honey like it should) any more today but now I can feel my brain rotting (courtesy of some damn US journo) so I think I have to nip the rot in the bud and douse it profusely XD

Rabbit hole? Nah, this one is a bottomless pit with no purchase. But maybe if enough people jump in...

I don't blame people (and least of all B) for trying but it's just too easy to blame anyone at all, whoever one would like, yet all the narratives seem decisively made up and forced regardless and most of all they seem to rely on an audience already disliking whoever is meant to be responsible.

Disliking! As if the emails becoming public was a bad thing for the world! It certainly wasn't. (Which still doesn't mean that Russians or Israelis, Brits, Inuits, Martians, or even undercover Norwegian seagulls did or didn't do it).

"The Israelis informed Stone of these 'hacks' before anyone else knew of those issues."
Personally I think that's very unlikely to be true even if it should prove to be true that some Israeli told Stone such-and-such, maybe simply because it was too much fun.

You know, sharing hot gossip :)

Schmoozing with suspicious characters —be it spies or politicians— must be just another day's work. Everyone here would be just as suspicious lol.

There was no particular reason to tell Trump anything at all unless you specifically wanted it recorded on WH tapes etc. that everyone knows about, and if the reaction is taken at face value any kind of horsetrading came after the release.

Trump didn't gain any real advantage from some guy saying so-and-so would happen; it still had to actually happen first.

Further: someone knowing (or being told) the emails would be released and how doesn't prove they themselves (or anyone they identify with or whoever told them) had anything at all to do with the release. It's just some easily shared pieces of information. It doesn't even make it plausible since the case could be that there were all kinds of people and organizations who had similar knowledge but who didn't spill the beans up front due to it perhaps being seen as incriminating both for them and the recipient ...and that's all this particular narrative is really built upon isn't it?

So to me the core of the narrative is irrational or counterproductive. It could still be true of course. Yet "blaming" Israelis seems no different than blaming Russians etc.

Trump was (correctly) seen as the spoiler option (maybe still is despite all the bs), even Hillary Clinton could have a motive for not wanting to win... :D (it's the worst job in the world after all).

Hardly any facts at all about anything to begin with and this didn't add any in my opinion and the FBI isn't the least bit trustworthy in any way. I don't even buy the "Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity" take on this stuff (because it stinks). At least the previous bs narrative had some scandalous "Russian" silliness in it, instead this attempt tries too hard to be "serious" :)

Btw the people in the FBI, NSA, and CIA are just as likely "culprits" as anyone else.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Mar 26 2023 2:04 utc | 78

One question:

This piece cites a story by Bamford in The Nation with a link. Then it talks about a story in Salon which also links, not to Salon, but to the same story at The Nation website.

Was it just one Bamford story at The Nation, or was there actually something in Salon as well?

Posted by: Oscar Peterson | Mar 26 2023 2:12 utc | 79

Anyone remember USS Liberty? Or even care to?

The link is from 2020.

Posted by: Anne B | Mar 26 2023 2:18 utc | 80

Was it just one Bamford story at The Nation, or was there actually something in Salon as well?

Posted by: Oscar Peterson | Mar 26 2023 2:12 utc | 79

Actually that's something I thought about as well and I remember previous instances of b mistakenly typing Salon when he meant The Nation.

Funnily enough, to Anne B @80, yes I do remember the liberty and a late uncle who passed away about 6 years ago in West Virginia was one of the survivors. That isn't particularly funny, but what is is that when I did a search for "Bamford Salon Israel" regarding Oscar Peterson's comment to which I replied, this was literally the only 'correct' result provide by Google.

From 2001:

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 26 2023 2:22 utc | 81

The VIPS "data transfer speed" is complete bullshit, as I've said several times before.

The speed data can be faked (and it makes sense to do so to cover your tracks).

The speed data can be changed unintentionally.

The speed data can be from the last or any previous intermediary source rather than the original.

The speed data can be from the last or any previous packaging or repackaging.

All bits are "dynamic" and it's the whole point of transistors to switch from 0 to 1 and back again to begin with, there's no stopping anyone who really wants to from reading changing and then writing whatever they damn well please one way or another and using separate computers or storage medium or other simple workarounds to do so.

The claim just doesn't hold. It's dumb. It's silly. It's certainly not sane.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Mar 26 2023 2:24 utc | 82

Those Israeli agents will have had a great time laughing about the 'Russian intervention' nonsense the U.S. public has failed for.

Posted by b on March 25, 2023 at 18:49 UTC | Permalink

You probably meant to write at the end "has FALLEN for" in stead of 'has FAILED for.'

Great catch (the whole article). I read back in 2017 that a small clique of small 'r' republicans in senior military intelligence backed Trump doing a deal. Part of their end was to block election hacking/theft since they can track and trace absolutely anyone anywhere anytime. And part of his end was that he had to win the election for real, ie get more votes than his opponent.

Your Israeli angle story sounds more likely than not.

Of course both could be more or less true.

One thing I noticed in your presentation: one side (DNC-FBI-et alia) were fabricating whopping lies and pushing them through FISA Courts, the media etc. so effectively that to this day more than half the country believes most of those narratives.

Whereas the skullduggery you are describing mainly involves getting out the truth, albeit hiding the sources.

I believe I get why many hate or despise Trump etc. but the two sides really don't play by the same rules. (To me Trump only matters because many vote for him expecting him to right the ship of state. Without their support he is nothing. They are the ones who interest me, not Trump per se. Personally I've been 'a plague on both their houses' type my entire life.) One side is far more truthful than than the other which utters mainly only lies. That should count for something but these days, it seems, it does not.

America: a Reality TV Pathocracy series masquerading as a representative republic.

Posted by: Scorpion | Mar 26 2023 2:28 utc | 83

The real story to me is absolutely how naive all these people are to the traceability of e-mails, tweets, and any on line actions.

Totally clueless, it seems. They might as well have painted yellow lines everyday on the ground where they went. They thought e-mails are privacy, no one sees you write and send then. No covert meetings that will have a chance of witnesses or bribed bodyguards.

And yet they all used them. I'm sure they were warned along the way, but the glibness of the rich and powerful (at least in their minds) is that no one would trace anything back to them. As if software design would exclude them.

If I were to lead a campaign to overthrow the local dogcatcher, the LAST things I would use are personal e-mail accounts and twitter.

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Mar 26 2023 2:43 utc | 84

I still don't buy the Seth Rich angle no matter how many times it gets repeated. So far nothing credible points to him having access to that information nor is there any explanation for why he'd be killed when he was supposing he'd already leaked the info. I know it's surprising to some people that a murder of a college graduate white kid would go unsolved for this long, but in that same city the homicide clearance rate is probably something like 40%.

That said, to Sunny Runny Burger's comment - I don't quite follow. Why would the transfer speed data be faked to make it appear FASTER than it actually occurred?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 26 2023 2:44 utc | 85

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Mar 26 2023 2:24 utc | 82

Yeah, and you know more than the guy who invented the NSA network surveillance system?

You missed the whole point of my post, which is that the official story of the DNC files being transmitted to Wikileaks directly over the Internet can not have happened in that manner. Only if someone had access to very high-speed network channels directly between two points in the US and Europe could that have been possible.

The manual transfer of those files makes much more sense. So either someone copied them out of the DNC network on to a material medium such as a hard drive and hand carried them out of the building, or someone captured them wirelessly from near the DNC network and then transferred them to a physical medium which was then transferred manually to Wikileaks. That's what the VIPS study shows.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 26 2023 2:47 utc | 86

@ Oscar Peterson | Mar 26 2023 2:12 utc | 79

i thought of that too.. even went to salon to see if there was anything on it.. i couldn't find anything... i think it is a typo on b's part... as for the bozo upstream who said obviously b should have known seth rich is jewish - given his name - it amazes me the arrogance and assumptions on display in this bozos world view..

regarding seth rich.. if you want to understand how the intel agencies want to act as though they are the purveyors of reality, read this page on seth rich...

according to them - seth rich had nothing to do with it... it was all ''russia, russia, russia' case closed.. go back to sleep... do not ask questions or create ''conspiracies''.... lol..

who do you believe?? hang your hat on that, and watch how others do or don't agree with you...

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2023 2:56 utc | 87

of course to believe the bullshit on wikipedia, you have to put all your faith in factcheck... good luck with that...

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2023 2:59 utc | 88

A glass of your preferred in appreciation of the archive NYT: The U.S. Volunteers in Ukraine Who Lie, Waste and Bicker
While @bar and elsewhere was dubious of the U$ sending “auditors” to Kiev to ensure control over U$ weapons and material…. I wonder… if the auditors, anticipating finding Russians lurking at the bottom of every shady deal, inevitably found fraudsters like Vasquez and the Mozart Glee Club.
In hindsight, that ambiguous Andy “Mozart” Milburn shut up shop about the time the auditors arrived.
The “shoot-a-Russian-today” safari, promoted on Reddit right at the start of the sloSMO, got off to a shaky start when Russia “kalibrated” the widely known NATO training campus in the first few weeks.
But other, more wily carpetbaggers saw Ukraine for what it was… the Wild Wild West, redux.
Possibly, the eradication of the freelancers, chancers, charlatans, rodents and cockroaches from Ukraine is USNATO cleaning up the battle space….. ahead of either an insertion of a more organised, controlled sheep-dipped force, OR, actual USNATO.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Mar 26 2023 3:00 utc | 89

Posted by: barstool | Mar 26 2023 0:47 utc | 74

Good point. The files could have been taken from the backup system. That would imply someone with access to that system, however, which is usually not the normal office staff or even in the same building (if they're smart, they use offsite.) Rich was an IT guy, so maybe he had access or even was the guy doing the backups.

The main point remains: If the files were taken from a DNC system, they weren't directly transmitted over the Internet to Wikileaks as is claimed. They were copied to a physical medium and physically transmitted. That fits Craig Murray's story. It's also the smart way, to avoid the NSA.

People forget that if those files were sent over the Internet directly to Wikileaks, the NSA would KNOW. Even if the files were encrypted, it would not necessarily be easy to conceal the actual transmission of those files from the DNC network to either Wikileaks or whatever intermediate network would be involved. And the NSA has never said they have any evidence of what happened to the DNC files - and I'm sure they've been asked by someone.

Now it is possible to exfiltrate files from a network in a covert manner; hackers do it all the time. You embed the data in other protocols, or hide them in free space in packets, use steganography to embed the data in other file formats, etc. If that was done, the NSA would have a much harder time determining the exfiltration.

However, this would imply that Rich was more than an IT guy, he was a decent hacker familiar with the necessary tools and techniques. Much more reasonable to assume he - or whoever - simply copied the files in a normal manner from the system, either the main or the backups, onto a removable medium.

Also remember that, IIRC, CrowdStrike never actually detected the removal of the files, even when the last files were removed from the DNC after their intrusion detection system (IDS) was installed in April or May (I forget the dates). Again, an exfiltration over the network would more likely have been detected, assuming advanced exfiltration techniques weren't used, whereas someone copying the files under another user ID with clearance (easy for an IT guy with access to the user database) would have been harder to detect.

Of course, that's assuming anything the CrowdStrike people have said is true, which it itself problematic as that company was thoroughly compromised.

The bottom line remains: It's less likely that the official story of external Russian hackers inside the DNC network is true than that a DNC insider is the source of the leaks.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 26 2023 3:05 utc | 90

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 26 2023 2:44 utc | 85
"So far nothing credible points to him having access to that information"

I haven't seen anything saying he didn't, other than the fact that he was in the IT department. Lots of crap goes on in IT departments.

"nor is there any explanation for why he'd be killed when he was supposing he'd already leaked the info."

If you're planning to blame the Russians, why would you want this kid running around knowing it wasn't true?

And they were planning to blame the Russians long before the Wikileaks emails actually came out. We know that. Alexandra Chalupa was the first one to claim Russians were hacking her even before the emails came out. The DNC and CrowdStrike knew those emails had been taken and would come out, although whether they knew it was Wikileaks or not I don't know. They had to have a cover story to offset the damage the content of the emails would do to Clinton's campaign. So they came up with the idea of blaming the Russians. In fact, I believe it was Chalupa who came up with it, since she had contacts with the Ukrainian Embassy and possibly through them with Ukrainian hacker groups who could provide backup "evidence". She had considerable influence apparently inside the DNC.

"Why would the transfer speed data be faked to make it appear FASTER than it actually occurred?"

It wouldn't.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 26 2023 3:13 utc | 91

Both for any reason whatsoever and for exactly the reason displayed by those who put importance on that data as some kind of proof when it isn't proof at all: it's a great way to mislead and confuse.

Richard Steven Hack:

1. I hadn't read that far before posting but it doesn't matter.

2. There's no proof Wikileaks didn't get it in some other way. No matter what Wikileaks says or doesn't say their interest is in obfuscating the source to protect it.

3. Binney and VIPS isn't actually the source of the study, they just popularized it to some degree. But that doesn't matter since both you and I would know better than Binney if he in fact pretends that these bits and bytes are somehow sacrosanct and forever unchangeable no matter what. So yeah "if so" then we both do :) (and millions more). And besides that argument from authority" is invalid and having worked for the NSA really isn't such a positive nowadays even if he "rebelled".

4. I don't blame the original author of the study; he thought he found something interesting and cool and he sort of did, it's just that any conclusions rely far too much on assuming the values are "pristine"/"forensic" and there's every reason not to make such assumptions.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Mar 26 2023 3:19 utc | 92

1] Iran obtaining nuclear weapons is an existential issue for Israel.

2] Netanyahu supported Mitt Romney publicly over Obama in 2012. It didn't work and Romney's loss made things more difficult for Israel.

3] Netanyahu had a terrible relationship with Obama, Hillary Clinton and John Kerry. Especially over the JPCOA.

The plan had two possible objectives: 1] to get ANY Republican elected that opposed the JPCOA (a longshot considering it was Trump in 2016, Netanyahu knew this) 2] to create enough of a scandal that the Clinton administration would have been significantly hobbled or weakened. Either outcome would have served Israel's interest.

4] Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails. The Podesta emails were phished, notice the time zone stamps on those emails... they were attributed to the Russia GRU, FancyBear & CozyBear, but look at a globe, what county lies in the same time zone as Moscow? (Israel)

5] Did Obama and the rest of the US Intelligence Community know about this? YES!!!

Obama just took a parting shot at Israel — and Trump — at the UN (Dec 23, 2016)

In a stunning diplomatic rebuke of Israel, the United States on Friday abstained on a controversial United Nations Security Council resolution demanding an end to Israeli settlements on Palestinian territory, allowing it to pass easily.

It was the first time in nearly 40 years that the Security Council has passed a resolution critical of Israeli settlements.

The US Intelligence Community was never interested in investigating Seth Rich's death, who really hacked Podesta or how the DNC emails were exfiltrated after Shawn Henry's (CrowdStrike CEO) testimony that he could not assert it was Russia. The same as they are currently not investigating NordStream II or COVID19 origins.

The whole RussiaGate thing was just political theater, a way to hobble/oust Trump, and to possibly payback Netanyahu?

All of that was plainly obvious. The real question is why is this coming out now? To use against Trump ... or Netanyahu with everything (judicial reform/settlements) now going on in Israel.

Posted by: Rokossovsky | Mar 26 2023 3:19 utc | 93

@Bernard Davis 41

Why would someone who's not Amerikastani suspect that a "Seth Rich" is Jewish? He's not a "Cohen" or "Goldfarb" or "Weinstein"; people from countries that don't have Jews all over the media, finance, and entertainment industries don't have an automatic sense of identification of Jewish names.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Mar 26 2023 3:21 utc | 94

@ Biswapriya Purkayast | Mar 26 2023 3:21 utc | 94

he is the guy i was referring to earlier.. he is too thick to think and figure that out..

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2023 3:36 utc | 95

@Tom_Q_Collins | Mar 26 2023 2:44 utc | 85

I completely agree. Not even the world's most incompetent hit man would shoot a victim in the back (I think 4 times?) but not finish him off with a bullet to the head. He was still breathing when the police found him and could just as easily survived.

Whatever he did in life I think he was killed in a robbery gone wrong. I wish people would stop speculation based on little more that political prejudice out of respect for the family.

Posted by: Weekender823 | Mar 26 2023 3:37 utc | 96

@ 76 tom

My ancestors came from the old world. I have a recorded lineage going back that far and written accounts of some of their lives in memoirs. I don't detect any baseness or lack of character. So I would say that I am sure there were bad apples amongst them but also entrepreneurial protestantants that truly were enamored with the idea of the new world.

As for slavery, who was it that operated the majority of the slave trade to the West Indies? If you don't know, let me spoil it for you and say it was largely run by Jews.

As for conquering the natives...who wouldn't? In fact, the original, original natives were likely conquered/subdued/bred-out by migrators over the Bering Strait. Aren't the Chinese in the process of correcting Tibet and the Uiguirs?

It seems like there is a notion of supremacy wherever you look.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Mar 26 2023 3:38 utc | 97

Btw stopping posting for "today"/"yesterday" since I'm now "actively purging" and thus shouldn't continue any debate :O

I've said what I think needs saying (yet again, I've said pretty much the same for years). Best to all no matter if we agree or disagree. If I'm wrong then so be it.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Mar 26 2023 3:39 utc | 98

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Mar 26 2023 3:19 utc | 92

Not buying it. Going so far as to alter time stamps to show a different speed is something I doubt any hacker would do, even one working for the SVR. Obviously it's not impossible, but the probability is pathetically low. If one wants to obfuscate the method of exfiltration, manually copying makes far more sense than monkeying with the time stamps. You only monkey with time stamps when you want to obfuscate the time of your penetration - and you usually don't do that to the files you've exfiltrated, you do it to the relevant system files. I've never heard of anyone monkeying with time stamps on exfiltrated files for any reason. You might monkey with the ones left on the system for anti-forensic reasons, but not the files you downloaded. So this theory is extremely unlikely.

As I said, it's far more likely based on the preponderance of the evidence that the files were not directly transferred over the Internet, but were copied manually and then hand carried to their destination. It's the only secure way to transfer sensitive material - "sneaker-net", as we call it.

Now it is possible that the files were copied from one medium to another multiple times, which would eliminate the time stamps' value in terms of refuting whether they were initially acquired over a network. But then one has to assume that the Russians entered the DNC network, copied the files over the Internet to a system they control, then downloaded the files to a physical medium and then hand carried the files to Wikileaks. Because otherwise, if the Russians sent the files over the Internet to Wikileaks directly, the time stamps wouldn't indicate a manual download. So the Russians would have had to hand carry a physical medium. This seems unlikely, unless we assume Assange is lying when he says there were no Russians involved.

I see no reason to assume Assange is lying - if they got the files from the Russians, why would he feel the need to lie about it? Protect his source, yes, but saying Russians gave Wikileaks the files doesn't compromise any specific person or department. Saying nothing at all is the Wikileaks position, and Assange denying that Russians were involved is consistent with that position: he's protecting the real source.

Bottom line: All the probabilities align around a DNC insider versus Russian hacking, with the mode of transmission once exfiltrated being a physical medium.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 26 2023 3:44 utc | 99

craig murray article on seth rich from 3 years ago....

maybe some here are receptive to reading it and considering other possibilities... not sure if that is the case...'

The FBI Has Been Lying About Seth Rich

Posted by: james | Mar 26 2023 3:57 utc | 100

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