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March 20, 2023
Geopolitical Rumblings Leave U.S. Behind

Over the last month we have seen astonishing geopolitical developments.

In February China publicly lambasted U.S. hegemony, launched a global security initiative and offered a peace plan for Ukraine.

On March 10 China mediated an agreement which restored relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran.

On March 15 Moscow rolled out the red carpet for the Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

Yesterday al-Assad and his wife Asma arrived in the UAE for talks with Sheikh Mohammed

Also yesterday Iran and Iraq signed a security cooperation agreement that will stop the CIA sponsored Kurdish activities against Iran.

Also yesterday King Salman of Saudi Arabia invited the President of Iran to a visit in Riyadh.

For the last 30 years the U.S. considered the Middle East as its backyard. Twenty years ago it illegally invaded Iraq and caused 100,000nds of death and decades of chaos. Now China, by peaceful means,  changed the balance in the Middle East within just one month.

Today China's President Xi arrived in Moscow for three days of talks with Russia's President Putin. An article by President Putin was published in the People's Daily while Russian media published a signed article by President Xi.

The U.S. is afraid that China's peace initiative for Ukraine will gain ground. It has openly come out against a cease-fire and peace talks. I had thought that was for Ukraine to decide?

It is likely that Putin will publicly endorse the Chinese peace plan while the U.S. is paranoid that peace might indeed happen. It may even want to sabotage the Saudi Iranian deal.

China's people are by the way the most happy in the world.

Xi and Putin are now running the multilateral global show. Biden and the hapless 'unilateral' people around him are left aside.

Posted by b on March 20, 2023 at 10:21 UTC | Permalink
Comments

@HansJuergens, #4

They seem to be prepared for anything the US will do. They know the US empire is ending and they even seem to be aware that they should not humiliate the Empire (something they could do very well, if they wanted to).
May peace prevail.

Amen to that! Even though I’m neither Jewish nor even a Christian.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Mar 20 2023 19:17 utc | 101

The point of the Chinese ceasefire proposal is for it to be presented, for Russia to be open to negotiations based on the framework the proposal provides, and for the US to spit on it. Check, check, check.
The reality is that within that framework Russia could achieve it’s primary goals in Ukraine, but it doesn’t matter because all the US can do is complain about it and then state that it refuses to negotiate and now is not the time. So much for the decision being Ukraine’s. The US trying to make it sound like China is problematic for publishing a ceasefire/negotiation framework is absurd and the Chinese have been publicly pointing out that it’s not them arming the combatants. Russia doesn’t need to worry about which parts of the plan don’t suit its goals, or how Russia fans in the West feel about it, because the whole thing is a non-starter. The US can’t bring itself to negotiate and Zelensky made it illegal for him to negotiate.
This is an information operation pointed at the RoW showing that the the rising great powers (the world’s richest nation in resources and the world’s factory) are committed to behaving like adults and that includes compromise that might now maximize their individual advantages. This is especially true for Russia who’s losing people to the West in a hot war but is still willing to negotiate. The incompetence of the US is that it doesn’t even see (or doesn’t care) that it’s being obviously set up like this. It just plows ahead into the trap. It’s the same as the US complaining that the first steps of thawing the Iran-Saudi cold war are bad and wrong.
There is obviously a Sino-Russian plan to leverage these situations in order to isolate the US. It’s working. Probably better than they hoped because everyone who makes decisions in DC and Brussels is a craven idiot and/or ideologue. So it’s working faster and better than the best case scenario the Chinese and Russians could have laid out. Not only that, but the “slow” progress in Ukraine means that Biden and company aren’t paying close enough attention to anything else. These are weeks where decades are happening and the US isn’t even paying attention. Macron is more worried about how many bullets he can send to Kiev than the boiling anger of the French people. Scholz is so worried about supporting Zelensky that he ignores his “ally” attacking him. Etc. Meanwhile Xi and Putin have a 4.5 hour chat and there’s 120 high ranking Chinese government officials in Moscow. The RoW is watching. They’re making decisions based on what they’re seeing. No guarantees on how it turns out, but the trend lines for the US look like bank stocks these days.

Posted by: Lex | Mar 20 2023 19:23 utc | 102

They listened to me!
. . .from Global Times
China releases report that removes facade of American democracy

On the day that marked the 20th anniversary of the US-led invasion of Iraq, the Chinese Foreign Ministry released a report on Monday further unveiling the decline of American democracy and the chaos it has brought to the world under its disguise.
Analysts called the report, along with an increasing number of developing countries’ growing discontent over US’ hegemony, a “slap in the US face” and it helps remove the facade of American democracy, especially when the Biden administration is so keen on touting the “democracy versus authoritarianism” narrative for the second Summit for Democracy on March 29 and 30.
The report, titled “The State of Democracy in the United States: 2022,” contains four parts, and by collecting a multitude of facts, media comments and expert opinions, it presents a complete and real picture of American democracy over the year – not only revealing American democracy in chaos at home but also presenting the havoc and disaster the US has brought by peddling and imposing its democracy around the world. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 20 2023 19:41 utc | 103

Lex@102 has it right.
So does Karin Kneissl, the former Foreign minister of Austria:
“…In the run-up to the Iraq invasion, there was a great deal of division among UN Security Council (UNSC) members. US Secretary of State Colin Powell presented questionable evidence of Iraq’s possession of weapons of mass destruction, while the foreign ministers of Germany and France publicly opposed the aggression, for which they occasionally received applause in the Council.
“China and Russia, who vehemently opposed the war, began coordinating their decisions and responses, in part because of their respective oil interests in Iraq. This cooperation between Moscow and Beijing set the stage for a coordinated multilateral approach between the two nations. Both governments understood that a war would open Pandora’s box, leading to the collapse of Iraqi institutions and resulting in widespread regional disharmony.
“Unfortunately, this is precisely what happened. The subsequent years saw weekly attacks, an expansion of Salafi terror groups like Al Qaeda, the rise of ISIS in 2014, and perpetual internal Iraqi conflict. Anyone familiar with the country‘s conditions was aware of the looming catastrophe when the illegal invasion of Iraq began on 20 March, 2003.
China and Russia and the multipolar order
“Twenty years to the day, Chinese President Xi Jinping will embark on a three-day state visit to Moscow, and the focus will extend beyond bilateral energy relations, which have been a consistent priority since 2004…”
One of the important aspects of the Chinese peace proposal, the latest in a series openly rejected by the US and Ukraine’s other sponsors, is that it comes at a time when “western” public opinion is beginning to wake up to the reality that while its governments no longer have enough money for pensions, education, student debt relief, healthcare or wage increases in a period of rapid inflation of the cost of necessities, they have unlimited funds to support the Nazi Revival second round of Operation Barbarossa.
Russia’s case for the SMO is actually unassailable in any rational public discussion. And that discussion is coming. The reaction against Zelensky’s allies in Ottawa, London and Berlin will be overwhelming. All that remains to be done is to organise it. And that will be easy, since it will not involve any extant political parties.

Posted by: bevin | Mar 20 2023 19:43 utc | 104

This is the biggest nothingburger I’ve ever seen.
Above Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2023 11:30 utc | 5
Then you need much better vision enhancement. What it is is a proposed framework for peace negotiations laying out principles for international co-existence which should lead to a far more peaceful world than the current unipolar so-called ‘rules-based order’ has created. Having such an abstract presentation allows additional parties to voice their views without taking sides with specific national players with whose behavior they may be in only partial agreement.
Posted by: StirThePot | Mar 20 2023 16:10 utc | 53

China is a third party. The SMO and current landscape means RUSSIA sets ALL terms of any peace. The USA won’t agree which ultimately plays into Russia’s favor because as time goes on, Russia is getting stronger (militarily, economically, and geo-politically; more nations backing Russia) and the USA/NATO is getting weaker (de-dollarization, social unrest, banking collapse etc..). Ukraine is the nothing burger.
Internationally China preaches “non-interference” of other Sovereign States domestic conflicts. As StirThePot remarked above, the Peace Plan is just a reminder to Nations how unhinged the USA/NATO is behaving which only strengthens Russia’s Global standing. Any Nation undecided will eventually move into the Russia orbit. Time is on Russia’s side now.

Posted by: Ron | Mar 20 2023 19:44 utc | 105

Link to Kneissl’s article in The Cradle: https://thecradle.co/article-view/22737/multipolarity-was-triggered-by-the-2003-us-invasion-of-iraq

Posted by: bevin | Mar 20 2023 19:44 utc | 106

What’s good for the gander, also for the goose. Why you ask?
The scoundrel judges and prosecutor forgot to do their due diligence; forgot the tiny detail – – – the Immunity.
Russian Investigative Committee opens criminal case against ICC prosecutor, judges
The Committee recalled that on March 22, ICC prosecutor Karim Ahmad Khan lodged a motion with the ICC Pre-Trial Division for issuing a warrant for the arrest of Russian citizens and the judges returned illegal verdicts on the arrest of the Russian president and children’s rights ombudswoman

MOSCOW, March 20. /TASS/. Russia’s Investigative Committee said on Monday it has opened a criminal case against the prosecutor and judges of the International Criminal Court (ICC) who issued a warrant for the arrest of Russian President Vladimir Putin.
“The Russian Investigative Committee initiated a criminal case against prosecutor of the International Criminal Court Karim Ahmad Khan, judges of the International Criminal Court Tomoko Akane, Rosario Salvatore Aitala, and Sergio Gerardo Ugalde Godinez,” it said.[.]
According to the Committee, the case against the prosecutor was opened on charges of criminal prosecution of an innocent person with illegal charges of committing a grave or especially grave crime, as well as of plotting an attack on a foreign official enjoying international protection with the aim of aggravating international relations (part 2 of article 299, part 1 of article 30, and part 2 of article 360 of the Russian Criminal Code).
The judges are accused of illegal imprisonment and plotting an attack on a foreign official enjoying international protection with the aim of aggravating international relations (part 2 of article 301, part 1 of article 30, and part 2 of article 360 of the Russian Criminal Code)[.]
“The criminal case is knowingly unlawful, since there are no grounds for bringing them to criminal responsibility,” the Investigative Committee stressed, adding that in accordance with the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Crimes against Internationally Protected Persons dated December 14, 1973, heads of state enjoy absolute immunity from the jurisdiction of foreign states.[.]
https://tass.com/society/1591461

And the no nothing dementia pretend prez welcomes the warrant..
Be careful then. Lots in his closet, eh! ?

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 20 2023 19:46 utc | 107

The Ukraianian defense lines have collapsed in Avdiivka. Russia has gained more ground in Avdiivka in 1 day than they did in months.
Avdiivka is 10 times more important than Bakhmut.
It will fall before Bakhmut.
Once Avdiivka falls, the entire Ukraianian Donbass front will collapse quickly.
THIS IS MONUMENTAL.

Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Mar 20 2023 19:57 utc | 108

b: China’s people are by the way the most happy in the world.
Ipsos does a survey about happiness, and concludes happiness rebounds in Latin America, drops in many Western countries. Married people are happier. The top 5 countries with the happiest people: China, Saudi Arabia, Netherlands, India, Brazil.
So what does CNN say? “For the sixth year in a row, Finland is the world’s happiest country, according to World Happiness Report”. Obviously CNN has never met a Finn in their life.

Posted by: Passerby | Mar 20 2023 20:00 utc | 109

Bevin @ 105
Welcome back Bevin, we missed you.
And thanks for getting the ball rolling on my challenge to Barflys in May last comment.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 20 2023 20:00 utc | 110

I, for the first time in many years, having watched the pure evil and hatred promoted around the world by the USA and the collective West and been dismayed about how bitter, angry and twisted societies in these countries are becoming or have become (here in the UK life really is becoming ‘nasty, brutish and short’, now start to feel a genuine hope that a better and fairer world is possible where Govts are at ease with their populations and work for a better quality of life for their citizens.
Xi Jingping and President Putin are showing the Unipolar despots that there is a way, a much better way for a world to be able to live in peace. When I read about the Iran-Saudi co-operation, the red carpet treatment for President Assad, that Saudi Arabia are going to re-open their Consulate in Damascus and Erdogan is to meet Assad and, also, watching the wonderful, full honour Reception given by the UAE to President Assad (which brought tears to me eyes) I see some semblance of humanity and decency being restored in the World but only, I see, by the ancient civilisation countries.
I truly believe that these 2 extraordinary Presidents are Blessed by God to be the saviours of our cruel and twisted World. I give thanks to their extraordinary courage, humility and integrity. Both Presidents seem to be very in touch with their civilians and their country. When you see President Putin driving around Mariupol talking to people and reviewing construction work and also, at last year’s Victory Day Parade in Red Square following the formal official ceremonies, he joined the March of the Immortal Army with a picture of his Father. He was chatting to people and engaging. This is not a President who is afraid of his citizens. Watching all of this, I wish we had Jeremy Corbyn as our Prime Minister because he is cut from the same cloth of Dignity, Courage and Integrity.
I pray every night for God to continue to shine his light on them. The world needs their wisdom and judgement.
In the meantime, the collective West and other nations are in serious trouble with their citizens. France is extremely close to a genuine Revolution, Israel is on the brink of Civil War, if the NY{D Arrest Trump tomorrow, pretty much hell will be unleashed in some parts of the USA including NYC, There are Demonstrations in a lot of countries in Europe including Holland, the Czech Republic, Moldova, Slovakia, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Switzerland (Yep, huge surprise), Serbia and others mostly against any further involvement by their Govts in Ukraine.
Here in the UK the people are very angry but, as Karl Marx said, if there was to be a Revolution in Britain it would be in Gardening! However, there is some citizen activity. This ‘low emission’ tax the GLA is proposing to extent to Greater London has caused uproar and outrage. So, a Group has formed and they are taking the GLA to Court. Small stuff I know, but it’s a start.
God Bless Mother Russia for stepping up to the mark and giving the NWO stooges a massive punch in the nose and for China who is exercising the most excellent Diplomacy around the world. I have the stirrings now to believe that things are changing much faster than I thought they would.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Mar 20 2023 20:00 utc | 111

LuRenJia @96–
Thanks for linking to that translation as it will help other barflies keep up with China’s narrative on that topic and what it’s saying to RoW.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 20:01 utc | 112

Posted by: Lex | Mar 20 2023 19:23 utc | 102
I bet China could seriously hit US arms production through pinpoint sanctions on certain electrical subassembly components and other items. The western financial system is no longer able to support developing new specialized purpose-oriented industry as globalization dictated for many decades that sub contracting outsourced in SE Asia.

Posted by: unimperator | Mar 20 2023 20:04 utc | 113

Freedom, democracy and human rights are the common pursuit of mankind and the values that the Communist Party of China has always pursued…China is willing to … carry forward the common values of peace, development, fairness, justice, democracy and freedom for all mankind.
Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 18:43 utc | 91
They should make a start on these fine aspirations by ceasing the oppression, imprisonment and cultural genocide of Tibetans that they started 60+ years ago. In another 60 years we could start to take them seriously.

Posted by: GT Stroller | Mar 20 2023 20:07 utc | 114

«On March 10 China mediated an agreement which restored relations between Saudi Arabia and Iran. […] King Salman of Saudi Arabia invited the President of Iran to a visit in Riyadh. […] the U.S. is paranoid that peace might indeed happen. It may even want to sabotage the Saudi Iranian deal.»
The Iran-Saudi story is hard to believe, IIRC MBS once told the USA president that he hoped that his main legacy would be the elimination from history of the Shi’i “apostates”, which has been for a few centuries a common Wahabi/Saudi position,
But there may be an angle to it: the new Saudi Arabia of MBS is behaving much less as a rich oil producer and much more as a poor western asian country, as if oil exports were to fall a lot in the short to medium term. Saudi Arabia is planning to become a big exporter of hydrogen rather than oil, if they can build the plants, and a big tourist destination, etc. etc. One related possibility is that the saudi elites are also terrified of future water shortages and may want to cultivate neighbours as possible water sources, which is going to be difficult in the case of Iran, which is already largely a desert.
Or perhaps MBS and the iranian elites realize that Arabia and Persia will have huge domestic problems as oil exports shrink, and it is better to give up on foreign rivalries to concentrate on domestic issues.

Posted by: Blissex | Mar 20 2023 20:08 utc | 115

Below is what Xinhuanet says about the report on democracy

BEIJING, March 20 (Xinhua) — China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs on Monday released a report on its website titled “The State of Democracy in the United States: 2022.”
Based on facts, media comments and expert opinions, the report aims to present a real picture of American democracy over the past year.
It reveals that American democracy was in chaos at home and that a trail of havoc and disasters were left behind as the United States peddled and imposed its democracy around the globe. It is hoped that the report will help remove the facade of American democracy for more people worldwide, the report says.
In addition to the preamble and conclusion, the report has two parts titled “American democracy in chronic ills” and “The United States’ imposition of ‘democracy’ has caused chaos around the world.”
In 2022, the vicious cycle of democratic pretensions, dysfunctional politics and a divided society continued in the United States, the report says, adding that problems such as money politics, identity politics, social rifts, and the gulf between the rich and the poor worsened.
The maladies afflicting American democracy deeply infected the cells of U.S. politics and society, and further revealed U.S. governance failure and institutional defects, it says.
However, the United States refuses to acknowledge the many problems and institutional crises confronting its democracy at home and stubbornly claims to be the template and beacon of democracy for the world. Such imperiousness perpetuates the ills of its democracy and causes dire consequences for other countries, says the report.
Democracy is humanity’s common value. However, there is no single model of political system that is applicable to all countries in the world, says the report. It goes on to say that it should be up to the people of a country to judge whether the country is democratic or not and how to better promote democracy in their country. The few self-righteous countries have no right to point fingers.
Those who have many flaws themselves have little credibility to lecture others, and attempts to undermine others for one’s own profit and destabilize the world must be unanimously opposed, says the report, adding that black-and-white division of countries as democratic or authoritarian is both anachronistic and arbitrary.
What our world needs today is not to stoke division in the name of democracy and pursue de facto supremacy-oriented unilateralism, but to strengthen solidarity and cooperation and uphold true multilateralism on the basis of the purposes and principles of the UN Charter, according to the report.
It continues by saying that what our world needs today is not to interfere in other countries’ internal affairs under the guise of democracy, but to advocate genuine democracy, reject pseudo-democracy and jointly promote greater democracy in international relations.
What our world needs today is not a “Summit for Democracy” that hypes up confrontation and contributes nothing to the collective response to global challenges, but a conference of solidarity that focuses on taking real actions to solve prominent global challenges, the report says.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 20 2023 20:09 utc | 116

I think the Russia China deal will be good for the American public becouse…
Whilst America is the wealthiest country in the world, at present the public only see a small percentage of that.
So America is wealthy not so Americas population.
Ja-get-it.
Also first define wealth, deffently not what the Biden goons would have you define it.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 20 2023 20:22 utc | 117

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Mar 20 2023 20:00 utc | 110
Heartfelt thanks, Jo, for another beautiful post, full of passion and truth. Does my old heart good to read your words.

Posted by: Mexicana | Mar 20 2023 20:24 utc | 118

The U.S. is afraid that China’s peace initiative for Ukraine will gain ground. It has openly come out against a cease-fire and peace talks. I had thought that was for Ukraine to decide?
b: My thoughts exactly when I read how our US mouthpieces expressed their adamant opposition. Funny how the wind does change in DC with regard to Ukraine’s alleged “sovereignty”!

Posted by: JMF | Mar 20 2023 20:27 utc | 119

@Paul Greenwood | Mar 20 2023 12:28 utc | 12
“China plays mood music and US breaks up the furniture.”
…qoute of the day! Thank you! And yes, reality has become that comical.
Posted by: El Lissitzky | Mar 20 2023 15:26 utc | 45
Rational responses versus emotional incontinence

Posted by: jpc | Mar 20 2023 20:28 utc | 120

Stonebird at 61:
Zelinsky cannot agree to the Chinese “peace plan” for the simple reason that Nuland, Biden, Blinken et al won’t let him. Zelinsky is not a free agent; indeed, one of his Nazi minders told him directly that if he tried to talk with the Russians, he would “be found hanging from a tree on the Bankova.”
Though I cannot understand why the US would not want a cease-fire and some sort of “deal.” The Ukraine is clearly losing the war. The longer the fight drags on, the more of the Ukraine will be incrementally taken over by the Russians, until the Russians reach the Polish/Moldavia/Romanian border. If they agree, they will likely be able to preserve some sort of “rump” Ukraine, which they will think that can then rearm. Can they be so deluded as to think that the Ukraine has any chance to actually win the war?
After Merkel, Hollande and Porko revealed that the entire Minsk process was a sham, the entire credibility of the collective West is shot. They are, as Lavrov stated, “Not Agreement Capable.”
There is no reason to think that they would live up to any terms of whatever agreement came out of all this, than they have with earlier deals made.

Posted by: Antoinetta III | Mar 20 2023 20:31 utc | 121

Posted by: Antoinetta III | Mar 20 2023 20:31 utc | 120
They could try and beat what US offered for Zelensky in form of mansion in Miami and hundreds of billions of dollars, by offering him an even more luxurious mansion in Thailand, Gulf of Siam and some Chinese minted gold bullion. Or maybe on Bali.
Zelensky is up for the highest bidder, if it weren’t for the slight inconvenience of Azov goons holding a gun on his head for a wrong political move.

Posted by: unimperator | Mar 20 2023 20:37 utc | 122

Just a small reminder of something most all here already know….
At the beginning of the SMO Vladimir Putin’s terms and conditions to stop the SMO were very realistic and for the betterment of all concerned.
Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 20 2023 18:00 utc | 77
And then there was Minsk II. The very United Nations that now pretend to have a problem with “Putins war” did think Minsk II was a good idea when they passed a resolution that made its implementation compulsory even when Ukraine, Germany , France and NATO used it as a ruse to buy time and prepare the very war that … the United Nations now think is somehow Russia’s fault.
But never mind whose fault it was: suppose NATO and Ukraine win the war and kick Russia out of Ukraine and the Krim. What next, with 8 Million Ukrainians who do not like the government, the government that killed 14000 of them in an attempt to bring them in line. Before it was stopped by Russia.
Do President Selensky and his NATO-Friends resume the killing until eight million government critics are dead? Or will they implement some form of Minsk II that might have prevented the war in the first place?

Posted by: Marvin | Mar 20 2023 20:39 utc | 123

“The US is like a wounded tiger. It is failing in Ukraine and still licking its wounds from its humiliating defeats in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria.”
https://www.raialyoum.com/raisi-to-riyadh/

Posted by: Virgile | Mar 20 2023 20:43 utc | 124

I think this Russia deal will be good for the American public becouse…
With the lead up to the next Presidential election both partys will have no choice but to play nice.
At home or abroad. The old unipolar world having gone. Not least becouse of the stark contrast involved under the eye of the world.
Thus avoiding civil war. And trust me you would not like that, it would look like Ukraine complete with trenches and brutality.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 20 2023 20:43 utc | 125

I see we have someone who occasionally comments here revealing itself as just another troll as it knows nothing about Tibet aside from parroting Western propaganda.
Elsewhere, Macron narrowly escaped a no confidence vote as Sputnik reports:

“An absolute majority of 287 votes was not reached, so the vote of no confidence was rejected,” Yael Braun-Pivet, the president of the French National Assembly, announced after the vote.
She added that 278 lawmakers supported the no confidence vote, and only nine were against it.
On Thursday, Borne used article 49.3 of the French constitution to pass a bill to raise the country’s retirement age without a vote in parliament. This step caused a wave of indignation among the lawmakers, who announced the “end of democracy.”
According to French law, if the government resorts to article 49.3 of the constitution, the opposition has the right to announce a vote of no confidence within 24 hours. If the parliamentary majority supports it, the prime minister and cabinet will have to resign. If the opposition does not declare a vote of no confidence, the law will be considered adopted.

I read this as implying the law was not “considered adopted” because the vote was declared and taken. Clearly, there was a mass of abstentions. The report mentions the LIOT faction as consisting of “centrists and former macronists” but more had to join the in the vote, and who were the nine that voted against? Perhaps some of our French barflies will provide further comment.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 20:44 utc | 126

That Aussie nuclear sub deal has to be one of the worst in history…vast amounts of money poured into subs that won’t be delivered for decades…which means never..when the diesel subs were not only cheaper, but much more efficient, and wouldn’t draw the wrath of any superpowers….

Posted by: pyrrhus | Mar 20 2023 20:49 utc | 127

@Richard Steven Hack| 5
“This is the biggest nothingburger I’ve ever seen. It makes it very clear that Xi is going to Russia for discussions on matters other than this nonsense and is using this to solidify the Russian-Chinese alliance for the benefit of the perception of the non-aligned nations.
There will be absolutely no change in the war based on this document or any comments which Putin or Xi may make in the wake of their meetings.”
Agreed as to the idea this is a peace plan. The Chinese never said it was. They published it as a position paper.
Regardless, it has achieved it’s purpose. It dared to suggest that PEACE is more important than whatever US/Nato goals might be.
It compelled the US (which seems incapable of remaining silent) to say it is against peace.
China’s audience is not the West, it is the non-aligned world.

Posted by: Dan Farrand | Mar 20 2023 20:50 utc | 128

I think the US is dead set on another totally humiliating defeat in the Vietnam-Afghanistan long standing tradition.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Mar 20 2023 20:50 utc | 129

“When Putin is gone, the pipeline could also be an opportunity for a successor to restore economic relations with us,” the official added, predicting that this could happen in around five years’ time.
[.]
Buddy, in less than 2 years Germany will be hulled out; standing behind Haiti. Its major industries companies will be located in China.
Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 20 2023 19:03 utc | 98
Reading that quote from that German guy.
The total cowardly reluctance to state the truth and continue parroting the official narrative.
Tells us all that German politics isn’t for the German people.
And as you very rightly observed the German economy is heading abroad because of the cowardly incompetents that came into German politics post Schroder.

Posted by: jpc | Mar 20 2023 20:53 utc | 130

President Putin and Russia are also making rapprochement between Turkey and Syria.

Posted by: Mohale Thoka | Mar 20 2023 20:58 utc | 131

Jo Dominich no. 110
You’re right Jo. I have yet to see a genuine smile on any of the western leaders faces. They all looked forced and insincere. And did you see Mr Putin actually visited some of those people in their home in Mariupol.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Mar 20 2023 21:00 utc | 132

Despite the lovefest here on MoA with Xi’s visit to Russia, the counterintelligence and economic espionage efforts emanating from the government of China and the Chinese Communist Party are a grave threat to the economic well-being and democratic values of the entire world.
The Chinese government is employing tactics that seek to influence lawmakers and public opinion to achieve policies that are more favorable to China while seeking to become the world’s greatest superpower through predatory lending and business practices, systematic theft of intellectual property, and brazen cyber intrusions.China’s efforts target businesses, academic institutions, researchers, lawmakers, and the general public and will require a whole-of-society response amongst the Western world. Those governments and the private sectors must commit to working together to better understand and counter the threat.
Russia has a particularly unsavory history in dealing with these Asiatics, but I will save that for a another post.

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 20 2023 21:07 utc | 133

Russia has a particularly unsavory history in dealing with these Asiatics, but I will save that for a another post.
Posted by: malenkov | Mar 20 2023 21:07 utc | 132
Please don’t.

Posted by: irish al | Mar 20 2023 21:09 utc | 134

Malenkov @ 132
Pure psychological projection on your behalf there.
Otherwise known as blaming the other side for what you yourselve are guilty of.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 20 2023 21:13 utc | 135

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 20 2023 21:07 utc | 132
Which is more cruel, millions actual killings by US/Coalition of the Willing of aggressive invasions, or your alleged past unsavory behaviors by China and Russia?

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Mar 20 2023 21:19 utc | 136

Just up – posted 35 minutes ago as I write;
Russian Su-35 Fighter Jet Intercepts Two US B-52 Bombers Over Baltic Sea – Defense Ministry
https://sputniknews.com/20230320/russian-su-35-fighter-jet-intercepts-two-us-b-52-bombers-over-baltic-sea—defense-ministry-1108618660.html

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Russian fighter jet Su-35 prevented two US strategic bombers B-52 from reaching the Russian border on Monday over the Baltic Sea, the Russian Defense Ministry’s National Defense Control Center (NDCC) reported on Monday.
“On March 20, 2023, the radars of the air defense forces of the Western Military District on duty detected two air targets flying in the direction of the state border of the Russian Federation over the Baltic Sea. The targets were identified as two strategic bombers B-52N of the US Air Force,” the NDCC said.
In order to identify and prevent breach of the state border, a Su-35 fighter from the air defense forces of the Western Military District was scrambled. After that, the crew of the fighter occupied the established zone of duty in the air.
“After the removal of foreign military aircraft from the Russian state border, the Russian fighter returned to its base airfield,” the center said.[.]
The latest scramble comes days after the Russian Defense Ministry confirmed on March 14 that a US MQ-9 Reaper drone crashed in the Black Sea as a result of its own extreme maneuvers after violating airspace and carrying out its flight with transponders turned off.

The chickenhawks are Testing, Testing. These diversions will not make the banking crisis disappear. And Xi is on a visit to Moscow

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 20 2023 21:19 utc | 137

” The naysayers of course will jump on China for being ineffective, missing the point that image is the important issue here, that there’s a new leader in the world to replace Biden and his stupid appointees.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 20 2023 14:40 utc | 38 ”
Great, lets see how the ” new ” leader will solve the suffering of the Palestinians.

Posted by: Deplorable Commisar | Mar 20 2023 21:23 utc | 138

Bakhmut: No reported activities in 3 consecutive days. So Dima believes the Russians (Wagner) are taking a deliberate break. In the meantime, the Russians half-encircled another town further south, Avdiivka.
While this slow way of proceeding gets on everybody’s nerves (including barflies), it is, of course, a way of keeping huge Ukrainian forces committed to Bakhmut, so they cannot be used for the announced Ukrainian “Spring Offensive”, or even for the defense of Avdiivka.
Maybe this is also meant as a demonstration of power intended to “persuade” Ukrainians to surrender – which would indeed be the best solution in terms of lives saved. Too bad I’m not Xi who, I assume, got everything explained today first hand from V. Putin.

Posted by: grunzt | Mar 20 2023 21:25 utc | 139

” Purely racist. Have you ever been in Egypt? Or Morocco, from where Europe was colonized, as can be witnessed in Granada, Spain. Ever heard of Axum (Ethiopia) or Carthage, a civilisation older than Rome, that, déjà-vu, European imperialists had to destroy to obtain dominance? There are many more ancient African cultures. Just look it up!
Posted by: OttoE | Mar 20 2023 16:48 utc | 66 ”
Except for Ethipoia non of the places you mentioned were Black African. Give us some sub-saharan examples.

Posted by: Deplorable Commisar | Mar 20 2023 21:28 utc | 140

I see a few people agree that this alleged “peace plan” – which as someone pointed out was never stated as such by the Chinese – is solely for position setting in contradiction to the US. Others note that Xi and Putin appear to be preparing to agree to various projects, none of which have anything to do with “peace in Ukraine.”
A few people seem to think that it still actually does…something. Obviously nothing to do with Ukraine, but…something.
Here’s Martyanov’s take as day one’s results, just for the bloviating hater with the odd name. I agree with Andrei.

They Spoke…
…tete-a-tete for… four and a half hours. As Ria reports:
МОСКВА, 20 мар — РИА Новости. В Кремле завершились неформальные переговоры президента России Владимира Путина и председателя КНР Си Цзиньпина, они длились 4,5 часа. По окончании встречи российский лидер вышел на улицу проводить китайского коллегу. Они кратко пообщались у автомобиля и пожали руки на прощание.
Translation: MOSCOW, March 20 – RIA Novosti. In the Kremlin, informal talks between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese President Xi Jinping ended, they lasted 4.5 hours. At the end of the meeting, the Russian leader went outside to see off his Chinese counterpart. They briefly talked at the car and shook hands in farewell.
How I wish I was a fly on the wall in the room where this “informal” 4.5 hours long marathon was held. Can you imagine now US media-intelligence complex wrecking their brains trying to figure out what did they discuss there? I want to point out, however, that Putin marked the territory when stated that (in Russian) Russia respects China’s position on Ukraine, that Russia attentively studied this proposition and… that it will discuss it later. In diplomatic lingo it means: we appreciate your effort but… Recall that Russian diplomacy repeated, again, fundamental demands for peaceful settlement in Ukraine: demilitarization, non-block (neutral) status and acceptance of the territorial realities on the ground. As you may have guessed it, Chinese proposal or no Chinese proposal, it is a no go.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The United States is authorizing another $350 million in military aid for Ukraine, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken said on Monday, as Kyiv builds up its arsenal for an anticipated counter-offensive against Russian forces. “This military assistance package includes more ammunition for U.S.-provided HIMARS and howitzers that Ukraine is using to defend itself, as well as ammunition for Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles, HARM missiles, anti-tank weapons, riverine boats, and other equipment,” Blinken said in a statement. The United States has provided more than $30 billion in weaponry to Ukraine to defend itself against Russia, which invaded its pro-Western neighbour on Feb. 24, 2022. The latest U.S. assistance was announced days after U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley held a call with their Ukrainian counterparts and spoke of their “unwavering support” for Ukraine. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy had also joined the end of that call on Friday, the White House said.

This is your answer and, I am sure, Putin explained it to Xi in detail. The question is not about defeating 404–for all intents and purposes it doesn’t exist as a viable state anymore. At issue is a demolition of the remnants of Pax Americana, and that means rearranging contemporary combined West into the entity, or entities, which will forget about causing wars and violence around the world for a long while. That’s the prize and Russia is succeeding in capturing it. Xi knows it, he is a very smart and educated politician.

I especially agree with Andrei’s last point. Does anyone here seriously think that Xi hasn’t been kept fully informed by Russia – and indeed by his own awareness of the information provided to him by his own advisers and Chinese intelligence – of the situation vis-a-vis US control of Ukraine? That Ukraine has repeatedly denied any possibility of negotiations? That the ICC court opinion was expressly released to prevent any such negotiations? That Russia is not at all interested in any settlement other than complete elimination of the neo-Nazi regime, which, ipso facto, means no negotiation is possible?
Get a clue. Xi is there not to try to get a settlement in the Russia-Ukraine war. Xi is there is cement the Russian-Chinese alliance against the West and more importantly to display that alliance publicly for the benefit of the non-aligned nations.
There is no “peace plan”. There never was. As someone noted above, the “peace plan” is a position paper – one that is set against the West and in support of Russia and its actions in Ukraine.
So give Xi some credit. He knows more about what is going on than anyone at the bar. And that means there will be no “negotiated settlement” of any kind until Russia achieves its maximal objectives in Ukraine – which, as I’ve said repeatedly, is complete destruction of the Ukrainian military, the removal of the neo-Nazi regime, complete control of the territory of Ukraine, the reconstruction of Ukraine, and the installation of a Military District in western Ukraine to counter the NATO strategic weapons in Poland and Romania.
Xi knows this and while he might wish to see it done more peacefully, he is not an idiot and he knows full well that isn’t going to happen. So give the Chinese some credit for understanding that. Even Martyanov thinks this needs to be explained to Xi. I think Xi knows all this perfectly well.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2023 21:32 utc | 141

I see we have someone who occasionally comments here revealing itself as just another troll as it knows nothing about Tibet aside from parroting Western propaganda.
Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 20:44 utc | 125
I know more about the history and culture of Tibet than you do.

Posted by: GT Stroller | Mar 20 2023 21:32 utc | 142

The “malenkov” @132 is an imposter.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 21:43 utc | 143

If the ICC has no justification over the United States…..not feasible that Russia is answerable to clown charges brought by that clown organization….the very public Chinese mission to Russia and it’s recent accomplishments in brokering peace globally will highlight for all to see…mostly non Western aligned Nations…the obvious U.S governments’s aversion to peace in that region…. Kirby already stating this .. On the eve of the Chinese visit to Russia…9 Chinese Nationals executed …two more injured in Central African Republic by rebel group tied to Wagner PMC…meaning CIA hit to send a message to Xi

Posted by: Joe | Mar 20 2023 21:43 utc | 144

I know more about the history and culture of Tibet than you do.
Posted by: GT Stroller | Mar 20 2023 21:32 utc | 141
Do tell us then and please provide references.

Posted by: Surferket | Mar 20 2023 21:43 utc | 145

Posted by: Likklemore | Mar 20 2023 21:19 utc | 136
but hey at least Biden keeps the trains running on time. oh wait…

Posted by: pretzelattack | Mar 20 2023 21:46 utc | 146

Do tell us then and please provide references.
Posted by: Surferket | Mar 20 2023 21:43 utc | 144
Get thee to a library.

Posted by: GT Stroller | Mar 20 2023 21:55 utc | 147

I see we have someone who occasionally comments here revealing itself as just another troll as it knows nothing about Tibet aside from parroting Western propaganda.
Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 20:44 utc | 125
I know more about the history and culture of Tibet than you do.
Posted by: GT Stroller | Mar 20 2023 21:32 utc | 141
==============================================
Am no expert, but have lived with some Tibetans for years and known dozens.
Seems to me that if you get all your information from official US sources or the mainstream media that you will have a skewed picture most likely thanks to CIA narrative shaping.
However, if you get your information from official Chinese sources or their mainstream media you will have a no less skewed picture most likely thanks to CPC shaping.
It is true that Tibet wasn’t doing all that well during the first half of the twentieth century. (Nor was China whose real advances took place in the last three decades or so.) But any claim China makes that
a) Tibet was always actually Chinese and
b) any post 1950’s Chinese input was an entirely benevolent liberation of a captive people (or whatever, I haven’t read Chinese accounts except gathering some of it from people on this board)
is extremely one-sided and self-serving.
As with most contentious issues or events, the truth is far more messy and nuanced, not to mention hard even for people involved first-hand to thoroughly understand.
Those who go around accusing those with whom they disagree of being trolls – with all issues, not just this China-Tibet one – should probably reconsider. None of us knows for sure what is going on, especially not the whole picture thereof, even though we often persuade ourselves otherwise; and of course with confirmation bias it will seem that all related events unfolding reinforce our view.
Indeed, perhaps we could say that having a fixed view which feels compelled to scorn all those who differ is most likely a sign that one’s own view leaves much to be desired.

Posted by: Scorpion | Mar 20 2023 21:58 utc | 148

Thussprakezarathustra @131 Thank you for your comments. I didn’t see VVP meeting people in their new homes as it wasn’t on the video clip I watched. I should think the people were very emotional.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Mar 20 2023 21:58 utc | 149

Multi-polar world and Ukraine SMO
Are not the same topic but closely connected.

Posted by: Mark2 | Mar 20 2023 22:00 utc | 150

Hi Mexicana @ 117 Thank you so much for your comments. Here at the Bar I find much inspiration from fellow Barflies in terms of their knowledge and insight. The contributors from all over the world have many different POVs from which we can draw.

Posted by: Jo Dominich | Mar 20 2023 22:01 utc | 151

Good article about the anticipations related to the Putin/Xi meeting by Sputnik here that links to an excellent article from China Briefing, “The Putin-Xi Moscow Summit: What Will Be Discussed” that casts a very wide net barflies won’t want to miss. For example, how many have heard of “stablecoin” for trade between Russia and Iran? That’s just one of the items mentioned in the section about New Financial Payment Systems and links to This item at Russia Briefing. Both sites might be new to many barflies. Also of import are the connections China has with Ukraine, which I assume many barflies are unaware of, that get reviewed in the China Briefing report. All the above shows there’s much happening in the Big Picture beyond the Ukraine conflict.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 22:02 utc | 152

@ 108 passerby – Give the Finns a break. Satanic Warmaster hails from there.
Wikipedia Satanic Warmaster

Posted by: lex talionis | Mar 20 2023 22:13 utc | 153

Indeed, perhaps we could say that having a fixed view which feels compelled to scorn all those who differ is most likely a sign that one’s own view leaves much to be desired.
Posted by: Scorpion | Mar 20 2023 21:58 utc | 147
I don’t disagree about people being called trolls willy nilly. However I do agree with Karl’s rebuttal.
The point is not to be right or wrong on the finer points of Tibetan history, rather it was the Stroller’s intent to distract from the issue at hand which is the meeting with Xi and Putin, consequential for the entire world, by throwing up the old “China’s Human Rights Violations” chestnut.
Disruption and distraction of the thread is trolling behaviour.

Posted by: K | Mar 20 2023 22:16 utc | 154

Except for Ethipoia non of the places you mentioned were Black African. Give us some sub-saharan examples.
Posted by: Deplorable Commisar | Mar 20 2023 21:28 utc | 139
Please … if you try to raise yourself above your own mental cretinism you might, in due course be able to mount a cohesive argument to either support or undermine the topic under discussion. As interesting as I find the topic of Ancient African Kingdoms, I suggest if you do feel the need to support or undermine an argument, try and do it within the context of the current discussion. There is a lot to choose from, Xi, China, Russia, Multipolarism, changing geopolitical scenarios, historical antecedents to the current situation etc.
Go on try it, you might surprise yourself.

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Mar 20 2023 22:17 utc | 155

The Ukies have again burnt a Koran and distributed the video as reported here:

The Ukrainian troops behind the Quran-burning video circulating online have made enemies out of Muslims across the planet, and authorities in Kiev must bring them to justice if they don’t want to ruin relations with the entire Muslim World, religious leaders and academics from Egypt, Syria and Saudi Arabia have told Sputnik.
“The desecration of the Holy Quran, whether it be the burning of the book in Europe or its desecration by Ukrainian troops, cannot be called anything other than the most heinous form of terrorism,” said Dr. Ali Hassan Muhammad, a leading theologian at Cairo’s Al-Azahr Islamic Research Academy.
“The crime of these Ukrainian servicemen has spread widely on social networks of the Islamic world: the resonance among ordinary believers has become too great…These actions are a direct insult to the world’s two billion Muslims,” Muhammad said.
At the same time, Muhammad noted, the Ukrainian troops’ behavior only echoes the “Western values” they are purportedly fighting for, with Muslims already experiencing the burnings of the Quran in Denmark, Sweden and France.
“It’s difficult to even imagine the extent that the hatred in the hearts of these people – including hatred toward Muslims,” Muhammad said. “It would be a mistake to consider this a spontaneous act, the act of some individual servicemen of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. They, like the countries of Europe, have a very clear ideology of hatred which morphs into the most heinous forms of terror and intimidation.” [My Emphasis]

The West really doesn’t have a clue how far it has its head up its ass thinking the RoW is not seeing any of this. Half the Africans at the Conference in Moscow are Muslim. Most of the energy rich nations are Muslim. The Cancel Culture pukes are imbeciles far worse than Daesh. The Anti-Human nature of the Outlaw US Empire’s bloc becomes clearer daily, while evermore people are realizing that fact.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 22:19 utc | 156

“They, like the countries of Europe, have a very clear ideology of hatred which morphs into the most heinous forms of terror and intimidation.” [My Emphasis]
Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 22:19 utc | 155 ”
What hypocritical sanctimonoius drivel. I could point out many Muslim ” peacful ” acts of co-existance with Europe. For starters, lets talk about the multi-century trade in Slavic slaves, includiong Russian, by Muslim empires. Castration, sex slavery, and working the males to death, enslaving young boys into the military…..

Posted by: Deplorable Commisar | Mar 20 2023 22:28 utc | 157

K @153–
Thanks for expanding upon the point.
Sputnik is reporting the first round of talks have ended after 4.5 hours, but no further specifics were provided.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 22:30 utc | 158

I see another disrupter troll doing its thing. At least its moniker is correct.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 22:31 utc | 159

One of the best threads in a while. Too many to name-check. My shout at the bar. Prost!
@ karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 21:43 utc | 142
Yup. Active Impostor on other threads also. Stand-to!
@ Blissex | Mar 20 2023 19:03 utc | 97
You have got it ass-backwards. And still trapped in a Cold War I mindset.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 20 2023 22:34 utc | 160

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 22:02 utc | 151
Thanks for the links to the Briefings sites.
I found the stablecoin to be interesting. More interesting was the amount of Chinese involvement in Ukraine. While the article suggests that Zelensky might be willing to negotiate based on offers of Chinese reconstruction, the far more likely result is that China sees that only a Russian takeover of Ukraine can provide it with the necessary extensive access to Ukraine that will massively benefit China economicall as well as Russia. China is already dealing with Russia and Russian control of Ukraine’s territory means China will have a much negotiation process in attempting to expand its economic interests in Ukraine.
This gives China even more incentive to back the Russian operation to eliminate the Zelensky regime in Ukraine as opposed to engaging with Zelensky to get a negotiated settlement of the war. Therefore Xi’s reported intent to have a video negotiation with Zelensky is again more of a PR exercise than anything else.
In other words, the Chinese stand to benefit more from a Russian takeover of Ukraine than a negotiated settlement between Ukraine and Russia.
This reinforces my position that anyone who thinks China is seriously interested in a negotiated settlement to the war which leaves things the way they are now is delusional.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2023 22:42 utc | 161

The point is not to be right or wrong on the finer points of Tibetan history, rather it was the Stroller’s intent to distract from the issue at hand which is the meeting with Xi and Putin, consequential for the entire world, by throwing up the old “China’s Human Rights Violations” chestnut.
Disruption and distraction of the thread is trolling behaviour.
Posted by: K | Mar 20 2023 22:16 utc | 153
What the Chinese Communist Party has done to Tibetans is pretty much the blueprint used by the Ukronazis in the Donbas region against ethnic Russians:
* Suppress the native language of the ethnic population.
* Suppress the religious expression of the ethnic population.
* Imprison/torture/murder dissenters and rebels.
* Enforce control on educational materials.
You might think this is irrelevant to the current situation.
I don’t.

Posted by: GT Stroller | Mar 20 2023 22:44 utc | 162

Ugh… “economicall” s/b “economically” and ” a much negotiation” s/b “a much better negotiation”.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2023 22:46 utc | 163

Two professional men meet, Putin and Xi. Two clowns meet Biden and Elensky. Now the World has a choice.

Posted by: Dferg | Mar 20 2023 22:49 utc | 164

@ GT Stroller | Mar 20 2023 22:44 utc | 161

Get thee to a library.
What the Chinese Communist Party(CCP) …

Troll.
Recommend posters exercise self restraint & simply ignore it’s deliberate disruptive provocations with contempt. C’est la vie …

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 20 2023 22:54 utc | 165

Posted by: Scorpion | Mar 20 2023 21:58 utc | 147
Thebest scholarly western source on Tibet would be by Goldstein.
https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520075900/a-history-of-modern-tibet-1913-1951
The Chinese POV is based on historical Sino-Tibetan relationship.
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202101/1211614.shtml
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202210/1276546.shtml
The accusations of “Tibetan genocide” is nothing more than lies long perpetuated by US who was also behind the Tibetan resistance.
Simply visiting YouTube and TikTok will see many videos of normal everyday lives of Tibetans under PRC. Much better than that of their ancestors.
What the Chinese government genocided in Tibet was religious extremism, which was what they also did in Xinjiang.

Posted by: Surferket | Mar 20 2023 22:57 utc | 166

Troll.
Posted by: Outraged | Mar 20 2023 22:54 utc | 164
Call me what you like. Just don’t call me early in the morning.
I’m sure Putin has the measure of the regime he’s allying with.

Posted by: GT Stroller | Mar 20 2023 22:59 utc | 167

@Deplorable Commisar | Mar 20 2023 21:28 utc | 139 no culture in Africa in times preceding European colonization
Do you just like to join the faction of arrogant racists, or are you even getting paid to derail the thread? Anyway, deplorable. Again, I have to remark. Won’t reply to you anymore.
On the subject: (1) The original racist statement was about Africa, not specifically Black Afrika. (2) Literature is plenty around. Samples: Seven Influential African Empires
This 14th-Century African Emperor Remains the Richest Person in History (Mali, hardly possible without culture)

Posted by: OttoE | Mar 20 2023 22:59 utc | 168

Posted by: Blissex | Mar 20 2023 20:08 utc | 114
I read the Saudi-Iranian detente as the Saudis coming from a position of weakness. For the reasons you state about declining resources but also perhaps a realization that their roll isn’t that much different than a gulf Ukraine vs Iran. Except Iran clearly has Russia and China behind it if push comes to shove. The Saudis are also a practical royal family, they see which way the wind’s blowing in terms of global power and especially global economics. Better to get off the sinking ship early, though it may be personally expensive in terms of dollars so they’ll need enough time to rebuild their wealth before the resources get more scarce.

Posted by: Lex | Mar 20 2023 23:04 utc | 169

Jurisdiction not justification… autocorrect

Posted by: Joe | Mar 20 2023 23:10 utc | 170

Yet another region with geopolitical rumblings: Egypt will provide additional space for the Russian industrial zone in the SEZ of the Suez Canal

Posted by: OttoE | Mar 20 2023 23:13 utc | 171

Also today, Putin revealed that @US$20 Billion in African debt was written off by Russia; I’m certain Dr. Hudson’s smiling.
RSH @160–
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I found the China-Ukie connections very curious as I knew about the transport issues. IMO, some ferreting-out is required as some of those contracts might have been with Donbas located firms that were technically still Ukie when signed, while that issue could be one of the reasons why the Outlaw US Empire so firmly rejected China’s peace proposal as it wants no interference in its Ukie looting operation. A Q that popped into my mind upon reading all that was its affect on the final territorial disposition and continuing existence of a Ukraine. Also, the extension of the grain deal means Odessa will stay Ukie until Summer at minimum, although this new stipulation was published today:
“Grain deal to be terminated if Russia’s requirements not met — official: ‘If there is no progress in the implementation of our requirements after the expiration of these 60 days, then this should lead to a situation where the given deal should be terminated,’ Sergey Vershinin stressed.”
Given the inability of the West to negotiate agreements, I expect the grain agreement to die in 60 days. That would allow Odessa to be liberated during a Summer offensive after which grain could resume being exported via that port without the need for any special deal.
Also of interest from the China report was the reason given for RoW angst over the unwillingness of the Outlaw US Empire to negotiate–disruption of critical trade and supply chains. As usual, the interests of other nations aren’t respected creating genuine hardship including deaths, which will only push RoW further away from the Empire bloc. And the only defense offered by the Empire are the usual litany of lies that will be echoed here by trolls just like those about Tibet, Iraq and everywhere else the Empire’s caused chaos and mayhem.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 23:18 utc | 172

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2023 21:32 utc | 140
Dude, moving the goalposts is a bad look. Nobody thinks that Xi went to Moscow to force Putin into the ceasefire framework. You’re just as hyper fixated on the Ukrainian conflict as Biden is. It’s the focal point of massive geopolitical changes, not the axle on which they turn. And it’s a focal point that serves to wholly distract the west from the real action. (Which isn’t to say that Ukraine is unimportant.) Putin would, correctly, negotiate a settlement on Ukraine if it achieved his minimal goals.
Your analysis of the plan is incorrect too. The whole territorial integrity issue isn’t one. And it isn’t because Putin was extremely careful and cautious in how the conflict and adoption of the oblasts played out. Nothing russia has done is in contradiction to the UN charter or accepted precedent. China understands that and wrote the document with it in mind.
The framework is real and would be workable but that’s immaterial because Russia and China both understand the US will never agree to it. So they can be honest with good intentions. All the rest of the world wants is global leadership that’s relatively honest, with mostly good intentions and a willingness to solve problems diplomatically. Exemplifying that the US is none of those things is important. On this phase of the grand chessboard it’s putting the US in check.

Posted by: Lex | Mar 20 2023 23:18 utc | 173

has anyone posted this?
“An explosion in the north of occupied Crimea has destroyed Russian missiles being transported by rail, Ukraine’s defence ministry said.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65021987?at_medium=RSS&at_campaign=KARANGA

Posted by: gottlieb | Mar 20 2023 23:20 utc | 174

* Suppress the native language of the ethnic population.
* Suppress the religious expression of the ethnic population.
* Imprison/torture/murder dissenters and rebels.
* Enforce control on educational materials.
You might think this is irrelevant to the current situation.
I don’t.
Posted by: GT Stroller | Mar 20 2023 22:44 utc | 161
You are aware that Tibetan Buddhism is alive and thriving in Tibet? Anyone in the world can still participate in Buddhist retreats at the monasteries and also if you are more secularly inclined can go on tours of all the Temples that are open to the public.
eg
https://www.greattibettour.com/tibet-travel-tips/tibet-meditation-retreats.html
The Dalai Lama’s sect is only one among many, the rest are still in Tibet and free to practice their religion, but not their politics.
eg: https://www.tibettravel.org/tibetan-buddhism/tibetan-buddhist-sects.html
Traditional Tibetan medicine is supported by the Chinese govt as is the local language and traditions (excluding serfdom)
https://www.tibettravel.org/tibetan-medicine/
All the info I’ve linked is at the tip of a search button and took seconds to find. Yet here you are stuck in the loop of American propaganda.
What you “think” and what is actually happening seem to be at odds.
You ARE off topic because the only thing in common between Tibet and Ukraine is they both have had exploitative regimes. China put an end to it in Tibet as Russia is putting an end to it in Ukraine.

Posted by: K | Mar 20 2023 23:28 utc | 175

Posted by: gottlieb | Mar 20 2023 23:20 utc | 173
Why do you even waste your time reading the official propaganda site of UK repeating bullshit from the Nazi govt of Ukraine?
Get on Telegram for the latest real news.
“The wreckage of the Ukrainian UAV, that was shot down in Dzhankoy”
@milinfolive
Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.
https://t.me/+PUg0rQrZdiw4YWFh
@Slavyangrad
Join SLG 🔺 Intelligence Briefings, Strategy and Analysis, Expert Community

Posted by: Surferket | Mar 20 2023 23:31 utc | 176

OttoE @170–
In the China Briefing report I linked to above is a section on BRICS expansion where Egypt is a major player.
One comment about the characterization of the SCO as a security organization needs to be made, IMO, and that’s what it’s securing itself against–International Terrorism–as it’s up front about not being “pointed” at any one nation or bloc. But as I’ve argued, being against International Terrorism also means being against its sponsor, and that’s the Outlaw US Empire Bloc. Both points are missing from that report and most others. One major development in China’s diplomacy in West Asia is getting the nations there to agree to cease their support for terrorist and extremist groups. Not only does such a commitment open the doors to SCO, BRICS and EAEU, it also isolates the Outlaw US Empire Bloc as the sole remaining promoter of International Terrorism. This distinction will become more important as we move forward.

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 23:35 utc | 177

Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 23:18 utc | 171
Agreed. If Russia takes over all of Ukraine, everything will go smoothly for China’s economic interests in Ukraine and they will expand and be unhampered by Western interference.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2023 21:32 utc | 140
Posted by: Lex | Mar 20 2023 23:18 utc | 172
“Dude”, I’m not “hyper-focused” on anything. Many other commentators such as Mercouris are talking about the Chinese “peace plan” as if there was a snowball’s chance in hell that it would actually result in negotiations, let alone a negotiated settlement of the war.
It was everyone else who were “hyper-focused” on a “Ukraine peace plan.” I hadn’t read the so-called “peace plan” and now that I have, I can see that with regard to Ukraine it’s a total “nothingburger”, as I said.
“Putin would, correctly, negotiate a settlement on Ukraine if it achieved his minimal goals.”
Since you don’t understand what the “minimal goals” are, you are correct as stated. However, Putin’s “minimal goals” are as I stated, not as you imagine them to be. Among other things, people forget that by definition, “de-Nazification” requires the elimination of the current Ukraine government in its entirety. How do you imagine that is going to be “negotiated”? Do you imagine that Zelensky, in order to get Chinese reconstruction money, is going to say, “OK, Mr. Xi, we agree to step down completely – the entire government – and disarm the entire military so that Russia can achieve its “minimal goal” of “de-Nazification”?
Yeah, right.
As for territory, if you think Russia is going to limit its operation to the Donbass – because that’s all Putin talked about in his speech announcing the SMO – then you are as delusional as everyone else. That ship sailed, not just when Ukraine brought in long-range NATO weapons that as Russia stated would force Russia to extend the no-contact zone at least 100 miles beyond the Donbass borders, but long before the SMO started.
Russia fully understands that the only way to insure security in Ukraine is to control the entire country up to the Polish border. Relying on the fact that Putin has not stated this explicitly in any speech is just naive in the extreme.
“that’s immaterial because Russia and China both understand the US will never agree to it. So they can be honest with good intentions.”
Which is exactly what I said. It’s a PR exercise to demonstrate the difference between the Russia-China alliance and the West. Any subsequent call to Zelensky by Xi will be more of the same – a demonstration that Ukraine – and by extension the US – is incapable of negotiating.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2023 23:42 utc | 178

@Lex | Mar 20 2023 23:18 utc | 172
The Russians were prepared to discuss and negotiate via Turkey’s Erdogan desk.
And it nearly worked.
They can easily state the same seniments through Xi’s desk — especially if it assists the latter’s highlevel psyops against the increasingly hyterical north American fading empire syndrome.
The target of this exercise is not the fields of Ukraine. The target is the assisted living mental health clinic currently operating out the US White House. A strategy against geopolitical ‘exceptionalism’ that seems to be working rather well.
I’m sure the African party in Moscow at the moment are taking note of future wind directions.

Posted by: imo | Mar 20 2023 23:52 utc | 179

Last comment on the subject, after which I’ll return to reading rather than writing. I’m bringing this to the bar’s attention, because in all the urgency to reorder the world’s economic systems, something more fundamental is being overlooked. The denial of people’s right to self determination is what kicked off the SMO. Temporal contingency may dictate alliances of convenience, but we shouldn’t lose sight of the reasons we engage with causes we see the justice of.
UN general assembly resolution 1723
The General Assembly,
Recalling its Resolution 1353 (XIV) of 21 October 1959 on the question of Tibet,
Gravely concerned at the continuation of events in Tibet, including the violation of the fundamental human rights of the Tibetan people and the suppression of the distinctive cultural and religious life which they have traditionally enjoyed,
Noting with deep anxiety the severe hardships which these events have inflicted on the Tibetan people, as evidenced by the large-scale exodus of Tibetan refugees to the neighbouring countries,
Considering that these events violate fundamental human rights and freedoms set out in the Charter of the United Nations and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, including the principle of self-determination of peoples and nations, and have the deplorable effect of increasing international tension and embittering relations between peoples,
Reaffirms its conviction that respect for the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is essential for the evolution of a peaceful world order based on the rule of law;
Solemnly renews its call for the cessation of practices which deprive the Tibetan people of their fundamental human rights and freedoms, including the right to self-determination;
Expresses the hope that Member States will make all possible efforts, as appropriate, towards achieving the purposes of the present resolution.
Comments”>https://savetibet.org/policy-center/remarks-united-kingdom-united-nations-general-assembly-resolution-1723-xvi”>Comments by the UK

Posted by: GT Stroller | Mar 21 2023 0:03 utc | 180

Damn. I forgot MoA mungs links to archive.org.
I’m sure interested readers can work it out.

Posted by: Gt Stroller | Mar 21 2023 0:07 utc | 181

” Also today, Putin revealed that @US$20 Billion in African debt was written off by Russia; I’m certain Dr. Hudson’s smiling.
Posted by: karlof1 | Mar 20 2023 23:18 utc | 171 ”
Thats great !! In two years Russia can write off under 20 billion, however, does that ever solve anything ?

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Mar 21 2023 0:24 utc | 182

BREAKING NEWS: White House spokesman John Kirby says that since Ukraine is a free, independent, and completely sovereign nation, the US will not allow President Zelenskyy to accept any peace plans proposed by the Chinese delegation in Moscow this week.
_Garland Nixon
https://twitter.com/GarlandNixon/status/1637637637967159297
Ahead of a meeting between Putin and Xi, White House NSC spokesperson John Kirby declares that any “call for a ceasefire” in Ukraine is “unacceptable.”
_Aaron Mate
https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1637627032686190593
Antony Blinken claims that a Russia-Ukraine ceasefire “would violate the UN charter.”
For a professional warmonger who calls himself a “diplomat,” I guess it’s consistent for him to declare that peace is illegal.
_Aaron Mate
https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1637886357044338699
In this ^ grab, Kirby looks ? Extremely discombobulated.? (Body Language experts can chime in. Or amateurs, it’s a fun sport……)
Does he remember that the US actually asked China to “use it’s influence” with Russia re Ukraine?
Kirby says Xi must talk to Zelensky “to get the Ukrainian perspective”.
Are you sure you want that Kirby? Be careful what you ask for!

Posted by: Melaleuca | Mar 21 2023 0:25 utc | 183

@102 Lex | Mar 20 2023 19:23 utc
Agreed, totally, and thanks for articulating that. China has occupied the moral high ground of the world, seeing that it was vacant, and since at this particular point in time Russia could not. China compelled the west to reveal itself as against peace, while giving the world a clear path toward peace.
Amarynth, at Global South, has an excellent piece today that I think you would enjoy:
Putin/Xi Jinping Summit: The Bell Tolls
It’s very strongly supportive of China, showing how China’s heft is not in the least diminished by Russia’s own force and substance. Regarding the peace overture, I made a comment there that I think is very true, to the effect that Russia, the judoka with Systema, shows how to floor an opponent using his own momentum, while China, with its Taoism, shows how to do it with emptiness.

Posted by: Grieved | Mar 21 2023 0:26 utc | 184

There will be absolutely no change in the war based on this document or any comments which Putin or Xi may make in the wake of their meetings.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Mar 20 2023 11:30 utc | 5

In addition to your comments I see a basic contradiction in Xi’s proposal. On one side Xi says that the boundaries of countries cannot be changed by the actions of a single party and on the other side he preaches strict adhesion to the UN chart and that chart alledgely allows an area to secede by her own will. Everyone knows that the Chinese administration has made separatist organizations illegal in China in contradiction with the UN rule. The same applies to various degrees to most countries: France, Spain, Canada, the US and so on.
So that document says that China will not be openly involved in the US-Ukraine-Russia conflict but China still needs Russia as a close ally and China sees Ukraine as key to her commercial links with Europe. That leaves open the role of China in “secret” negotiations between all parties. That is a kind of challenge Chinese people love to address.

Posted by: Richard L | Mar 21 2023 0:27 utc | 185

Posted by: malenkov | Mar 20 2023 21:07 utc | 132
How about a little E V I D E N C E mr malenkov?
Otherwise what you say is an absolute load of BOLLOX.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Mar 21 2023 0:29 utc | 186

Since we’re on the subject of Chinese diplomacy, I ‘d like to mention that the Iranian / Saudi deal stipulates that Iran will stop supporting the Houthis, however, I havent heard much about what the Saudi obligations are. If the Iranians sold out the honorable Houthis I will be very disappointed.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Mar 21 2023 0:30 utc | 187

what is the west fighting for?
1. Control over the global south.
2. Neocon control over the MIC budget.
The former provides the “garden” with sustenance.
The latter provides the (neocon) elite with funds to sustain their control. The neocons by now have used these funds to defenestrate all rivals. There is no ideology left in the west except neo-conism.

Posted by: nothing but the trut | Mar 21 2023 0:37 utc | 188

” On the subject: (1) The original racist statement was about Africa, not specifically Black Afrika. (2) Literature is plenty around. Samples: Seven Influential African Empires
This 14th-Century African Emperor Remains the Richest Person in History (Mali, hardly possible without culture)
Posted by: OttoE | Mar 20 2023 22:59 utc | 167 ”
The Mali Kingdom was a one trick pony, just like the Saudis, whose whole existence resulted from sitting on plentiful supplies of gold. Are the Saudis a great empire because they’re rich through no fault of theirs ?
The link you provided must be a joke. You’re referencing the History channel ? The hot bed of wokism, a perpetual BLM love fest, and LGBTQ operational center ? Do you know what they say about Russian history and Russians ?
Please try harder, you’re wasting everyone’s time.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Mar 21 2023 0:38 utc | 189

Good day for a balance of power in the World …
Time for a little song at the bar:
van Morrison – Days like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UUWkr4FUlo

Posted by: Don Firineach | Mar 21 2023 0:40 utc | 190

* Suppress the native language of the ethnic population.
* Suppress the religious expression of the ethnic population.
* Imprison/torture/murder dissenters and rebels.
* Enforce control on educational materials.
You might think this is irrelevant to the current situation.
I don’t.
Posted by: GT Stroller | Mar 20 2023 22:44 utc | 161
That sounds rather familiar.. I’ve seen that list applied to someone besides Tibet… who was it??
OH YEAH, now I remember, EVERY FREAKING EUROPEAN COLONY SINCE THE HISTORY OF EUROPEAN COLONIES!!!
The native americans, africans, native Aussies, the Indians, the CHINESE!! hell the British forced half the population of China to get addicted to Heroin so they’d be easier to control, AND make money for Britain because they controlled the Opium trade!!
and for the most part, those colonies are still effectively colonies, with a few exceptions…
Just look at the recent hub bub about the Falkland Islands… the British (7000 miles away) still claim those Islands as theirs, based on the simple fact that they conquered them 2 centuries ago, and have refused to give them back.

Posted by: Oldcutlas | Mar 21 2023 0:41 utc | 191

” Bakhmut: No reported activities in 3 consecutive days. So Dima believes the Russians (Wagner) are taking a deliberate break.
Posted by: grunzt | Mar 20 2023 21:25 utc | 138 ”
https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1636127574622347267

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Mar 21 2023 0:46 utc | 192

Here’s videos from foreigners who went to Tibet and Xinjiang to see for themselves the situations there. Nope. Not the bullshit by US and their puppets in UN.
Numuves – Xinjiang
“https://m.youtube.com/c/numuves/videos?disable_polymer=true&itct=CBAQ8JMBGAEiEwiCsYOk0djrAhWCq8QKHYGJAqc%3D”
Dumbrill – Tibet
“https://m.youtube.com/c/DanielDumbrill/videos?disable_polymer=true&itct=CBAQ8JMBGAEiEwiKivv-0NjrAhWG1sQKHbUFAis%3D”

Posted by: Surferket | Mar 21 2023 0:49 utc | 193

” That sounds rather familiar.. I’ve seen that list applied to someone besides Tibet… who was it??
OH YEAH, now I remember, EVERY FREAKING EUROPEAN COLONY SINCE THE HISTORY OF EUROPEAN COLONIES!!!
Posted by: Oldcutlas | Mar 21 2023 0:41 utc | 189 ”
Whats any of that have to do with his point. Also name me one empire that didnt conqueror territory, have colonies, and take slaves. I’m all ears.

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Mar 21 2023 0:49 utc | 194

12 minutes of reality …
Jeffrey Sachs, Seymour Hersh & Noam Chomsky et al. | What you won’t hear in the media!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_G5mshJmU0

Posted by: Don Firineach | Mar 21 2023 0:54 utc | 195

@ Grieved | Mar 21 2023 0:26 utc | 182 with the nicely described Chia/Russia relationship as repeated below
”
Regarding the peace overture, I made a comment there that I think is very true, to the effect that Russia, the judoka with Systema, shows how to floor an opponent using his own momentum, while China, with its Taoism, shows how to do it with emptiness.
”
Thanks for such insightful words.
I read the Putin/Xi Jinping Summit: The Bell Tolls by amarynth at GlobalSouth and thanks for the link. Their summary of China/Russia history in the beginning of the posting is recommended for all barflys
I toast your word smithing Mr. Grieved! You describe exactly what we are watching unfold.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Mar 21 2023 0:56 utc | 196

@ Melaleuca | Mar 21 2023 0:25 utc | 181
Thank you for those pearls.
Both Blinken & Kirby appear distressed, anxious & agitated. Wonder why. Perhaps WH should order in more diapers, a bulk order …
Some of the comments on Blinken in response to Aaron Mates tweet were contemptuously eviscerating. Ouch! Feel the burn.

Posted by: Outraged | Mar 21 2023 0:58 utc | 197

@ malenkov | Mar 20 2023 21:07 utc | 132
probably not the real malenkov… the clone succeeded in getting a few responses though, lol..

Posted by: james | Mar 21 2023 1:01 utc | 198

Maybe too much emphasis is put on NATO influence on Zelensky. Possibly he fabricated this situation himself, and truly is insane, the insanity of people who no longer can tell the difference between reality and fiction, real life and TV/media/Hollywood. USA/UK is taking full advantage of this madman.
Maybe it is useful to look at what anti war groups in Ukraine thought over 2 years ago…
In 2020 ‘NGO Ukrainian Pacifist Movement calls on president Volodymyr Zelensky to withdraw his Bill No 3553, which introduces dangerous elements of the military dictatorship in Ukraine. President Volodymyr Zelensky was elected in 2019 because he spoke publicly about his dreams of stopping the shooting and abandoning the mass army in favour of a professional one. However, Zelensky’s current policy demonstrates the deceptiveness of advertised “dreams” and the tendency to sick delusions.
The Ukrainian Pacifist Movement condemns Bill No 3553, recently sent to parliament by President Zelensky. The bill introduces intolerable elements of military dictatorship: mandatory military registration for employment, draconian fines and imprisonment for conscientious objection against military service and for solidarity with those who refuse to kill fellow humans, legalisation of police hunting for draftees in the streets with forcible transfer to army recruitment centres, and the maintenance of a costly and dangerous shadow army of military reservists ready to rapid mobilization for adventurous military campaigns. If parliament passes the bill, Ukraine will face further bloodshed, crime will rise, and our economy will fall into deeper misery and shadows.’
https://truth.in.ua/en/public/976/

Posted by: olaf22 | Mar 21 2023 1:12 utc | 199

Posted by: Don Bacon | Mar 20 2023 18:31 utc | 88
Funny that DPP would accuse Ma of stealing Tsai’s limelight. I thought this is exactly the purpose of Ma’s trip, to draw attention away from Tsai “transiting” the US, by doing basically “look, over there!'”

Posted by: Another Brother Ma | Mar 21 2023 1:13 utc | 200

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