Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 25, 2023
Ukraine – Those Guns Unknown To Me

Over the last months I read each Daily Report on the war in Ukraine by the Russian Ministry of Defense.

The reports list the losses of the Ukrainian side on each of the major fronts. I was especially interested in the dedicated counter-artillery campaign the Russian's have been waging during the last two months.

They numbers in the Russian reports may be wrong or exaggerated but they are in a range that is plausible for such a high intensity operation.


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The average daily Ukrainian losses are 12 major artillery pieces, one artillery radar and 3 to 4 artillery ammunition points or depots. The Ukrainian losses of men are listed at around 400+ per day. (The reports exclude the Wagner operations in Bakhmut/Artyomovsk.)

For the one month I recorded 214 destroyed truck pulled howitzers, 92 destroyed self-propelled howitzers and 56 destroyed Multiple Launch Rocket Systems (MLRS). About 12,000 Ukrainian troops were also reported to have been killed.

For comparison the artillery 'fist' of a NATO tank or motorized infantry division is its artillery brigade. It consists of 3 fire battalions each of which has 3 fire companies each of which has 6 guns or MLRS. That is a total of 52 major artillery pieces.

Losing a total of 362 major artillery pieces as Ukraine has done in a month is a lot, much more than the 'west' is able to replace. The current lack of ammunition that Ukraine claims to have will soon change into an oversupply simply because Ukraine will lack the guns and MLRS to fire it.

But that isn't the focus of this piece.

I have wondered about some howitzer/gun types the reports mentioned as destroyed. I had never heard of those and had to look them up.

What is for example the M101 truck pulled howitzer?

After World War I, the U.S. Army Ordnance Department studied various captured German 105 mm-caliber howitzers and developed the 105 mm Howitzer M1920 on Carriage M1920.

A modified version of the M1 was trialed in 1932 which used semi-fixed ammunition instead of separate-loading ammunition.

The original M1 carriage had been designed for towing using horses rather than trucks, and a new carriage, the T5 (M2), was developed in 1939 and standardized in February 1940.

The U.S. military artillery designation system was changed in 1962, redesignating the M2A1 howitzer the M101A1.

So the M101, pictured below, is a U.S. copy of a German army howitzer design from World War I. Some 10,000 have been build mostly during World War II.


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The ones Ukraine has, and the two Russia claimed to have destroyed, were gifts from the Lithuanian army reserve.

The D-44 anti-tank gun was also unknown to me:

The 85-mm divisional gun D-44 (Russian: 85-мм дивизионная пушка Д-44) was a Soviet divisional 85-mm calibre field artillery gun used in the last action of World War II.

The barrel was developed from that of the T-34-85 tank and was capable of firing 20–25 high-explosive (HE), armor-piercing, and high-explosive antitank (HEAT) projectiles per minute.


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A nice little museum piece.

There is also the Rapira anti tank gun which turns out to be a bit more modern:

2A19 or T-12 is a Soviet-designed 100-mm anti-tank gun. It was the first anti-tank gun to adopt a smoothbore barrel, and to introduce modern armor piercing shot, like the APFSDS. It uses long projectiles that are more powerful than its caliber suggests.

In 1971 a new variant was introduced, T-12A or MT-12 "Rapira" (2A29). This has the same barrel, but has a redesigned carriage and gun shield.

By the mid-1990s modern western tanks' frontal armor protection could no longer be penetrated by a 100 mm gun. The 100 mm caliber ammunition had reached the limits of what could be achieved with it.


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It is sad to see that the Ukrainian army has to use such museum pieces. Yes, they still may be useful in special cases. Also having such guns is probably better than having no gun at all.

But they have no chance to survive or even win on a more recent battle field.

Comments

Posted by: shadowbanned | Feb 26 2023 13:54 utc
Possible, but I doubt it.
HATO prefers to fight from the comfy confines of a bunker safely inside Poland or another US protected area.
They’re not willing to get up close and personal with the enemy. That’s for foreign mercs and Ukrainian cannon fodder.

Posted by: Chris | Feb 26 2023 14:05 utc | 301

Possible, but I doubt it.
HATO prefers to fight from the comfy confines of a bunker safely inside Poland or another US protected area.
They’re not willing to get up close and personal with the enemy. That’s for foreign mercs and Ukrainian cannon fodder.
Posted by: Chris | Feb 26 2023 14:05 utc | 318

The claim was “thousands of Americans”
There simply aren’t that many mercs.
If there are “thousands”, it’s regular forces.
That, or there aren’t “thousands”.

Posted by: shadowbanned | Feb 26 2023 14:07 utc | 302

@unimperator | Feb 26 2023 13:55 utc | 313

“Unconfirmed: first German leopard tank destroyed.”

Patience.

https://t.me/azmilitary11/39257
🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇦Request from TASS editorial office and response:
Hello. Recently, we received information from closed sources that the fighters of the Wagner PMCs destroyed the first Leopard. Is this really the case?
Yevgeniy Prigozhin:
“On your question i answer,we didn’t destroy “Leopards” .While there have been no fights with the Leopards, we have information that these tanks are arriving in Chasiv Yar,we havent met [Leopards] on the field of battle, when the first Leopard is destroyed you will be the first to know

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 26 2023 14:08 utc | 303

@ unimperator | Feb 26 2023 11:37 utc | 288
There were several licenses issued by RU, for production of 152 mm artillery systems in China, based on Soviet D-20. Later on China adopted 155 mm systems for it’s defence forces, as well as for international market. Nobody knows exact licence terms and fine print particulars, in regards to RU needs at war times. However China developed it’s own precision guided munitions based on Soviet designs…
https://en.topwar.ru/193600-upravljaemyj-snarjad-3of39-krasnopol-vozmozhnosti-i-realnoe-primenenie.html

Posted by: Alex Vadim | Feb 26 2023 14:21 utc | 304

Now that China has put forward a Peace Proposal, should Ukies stock up on toilet paper? With a population of over one billion that’s a lot of names to put on the ‘kill list’.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 26 2023 14:21 utc | 305

@ jared 310
My thinking about Russia taking Bakhmut is that Nato will use City infrastructure to support airfields inside Ukraine when they escalate. Projecting power . Nato dropped 1000s of ground troops into Syria and Libya. Easyjet for Nato combatants after the last Ukranian is dead.
When Nato declares war on Russia , expect shock and awe, followed by Russian hypersonic strikes on the Western capitals and Nato mininukes in return. When that happens, the RoW 87% will turn into 100%. Chernobyl style radiation will devastate Europe. Mrs Fuck the EU has already made it clear she’s ready to do that. RIP Nato Liberal swamp. KIA, killed in armchair. Welcome multipolar world order. There’s a big wide world out there, boyo. Nobody’s going to cry for a Ground Zero crater full of seawater where New York once stood.

Posted by: Giyane | Feb 26 2023 14:29 utc | 306

Posted by: Konrad | Feb 25 2023 19:37 utc | 110
Ewige Blumencraft ! ; ) They Know the use of flowers…
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 25 2023 20:19 utc | 118
re; video of bombing of medics on twitter
Most of the comments are condemnations, and one in particular mentioned US involvement in the targetting of HIMARS strikes.
Posted by: Scorpion | Feb 25 2023 22:05 utc | 148
“Perhaps the actual war is not that between Ukrainians and Russians in Donbass in both alternative and mainstream news, but between (mainly) western citizens and their own elite class?”
Certainly both, especially when ones ‘elite class’ are ‘imperial lackey’s’ of a voracious imperium based in the USA. Fortunately it appears that the international bourgeois imperium – whether they be lackey or lord – have reached their sell-by-date of inbred decadence and exceptionalistic ignorance.
For my part, I think that a mass spoiling of ballot papers – assuming your electoral system records such votes – would send a message to civil servant’s who are ‘off message’ but feel isolated and therefore vulnerable that the natives are restless and they are not alone in their dissatisfaction. But then again, I am an idealist.
Posted by: Scorpion | Feb 25 2023 23:09 utc | 169
Re; “…if one assumes there are related geopolitical dynamics in play in both the pandemic and Ukraine SMO…” and Posted by: Scorpion | Feb 25 2023 23:14 utc | 171
The reporting/coverage for both episodes was and is remarkably similar, so regardless of opinions the modus operandi suggests a significant connection between the two phenomena.
Posted by: Irish | Feb 26 2023 1:36 utc | 203
“This isn’t diplomacy, this is theater.” Specifically a Pantomime – gotta keep it simple
Posted by: Kathemy | Feb 26 2023 10:31 utc | 277
“I’m Marxist-Leninist. Trotskyites would call me Stalinist because I support Stalin but there is no Stalinism. Nobody would call me Maoist because Mao’s dialectics are a joke, even though I have the highest respect for the foreign policy theory of CPC mostly crafted by Zhou Enlai.”
You certainly are very strident.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Feb 26 2023 11:00 utc | 282
“As we gave seen ad infinitum sanctions of themselves are pointless devices but they are used as part of the continual indoctrination to keep amerikans & hopefully the rest of the west believing that they are the ones wearing white hats as amerika murders, rapes & loots its way around the planet.”
In a consumerist society the notion that another nation can be, theoretically at least, prevented from buying stuff is a very serious punishment. The inability to be able to buy junk food from one of the USA’s trademarked providers is absolutely catastrophic!
@ Outraged
You are always a breath of fresh air. I’ve missed your posts.

Posted by: Lantern Dude | Feb 26 2023 14:33 utc | 307

Poster below has made a heart-felt, sincere, personal request to be banned, regrets(?) wallowing with so-called ‘revisionist pigs’:
Kathemy/KathemE/AKA Tichy/Kathem-Y | Feb 26 2023 12:43 utc | 295 & 297
An abusive, vulgar, provocateur, sock-puppeting troll.
Posted by: Outraged | Feb 26 2023 14:00 utc | 315

A “sock-puppeteer” is someone pretending to be someone he isn’t. I never pretended to be someone I am not. I’m Tichy, Swedish metal worker, and I’ve been active in Marxist movements for thirty years. Communist youth, Offensiv, KPML(r), VFSnP, and the mentee of the great Rolf Martens before he died.
Of course the simple truth of the above statement won’t get thru your thick skull. Oh, yes, that is the truth.
I’m vulgar? Sure, I’m vulgar. I make no apologies for getting nauseated by you fake leftists. I don’t “regret” fighting you either.

Posted by: This Is Tichy | Feb 26 2023 14:34 utc | 308

@Giyane:
Nato dropped 1000s of ground troops into Syria
And yet Assad still stands, all they got for their effort was some illegal bases that are target practice for Iran.
Pretty shitty ROI if you ask me.

Posted by: Chris | Feb 26 2023 14:56 utc | 309

Even Bank of Nova Scotia (albeit mainly in tourist towns); they are the oldest bank in North America – set up by the Rothschilds of course.
Posted by: Scorpion | Feb 26 2023 5:32 utc | 238

Can you provide a source for the last statement, as it is not present in Canadian history?

The Bank of Nova Scotia was founded in Halifax, by a group of local merchants and citizens who wanted a public bank, owned by shareholders and authorized by government, that could provide currency for trade transactions (see Money in Canada). The few other banks in Halifax at the time were all private banks, meaning they selectively chose their customers, favouring those with close family or business ties. On 31 January 1832, 184 citizens signed a petition requesting the House of Assembly establish a public bank, and the next day offers to buy public shares were received. After much debate, on 30 March 1832, the government gave its approval and the bank was formally incorporated. After some time spent organizing the bank, it officially opened for business on 10 August 1832, and was governed by a board of directors composed of businessmen, lawyers and politicians.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 26 2023 15:07 utc | 310

Things are devolving here
I enjoy the articles, the post&links.
But I will not post anymore
Being an observer is fine.
Everybody stay well.

Posted by: Dingo | Feb 26 2023 15:26 utc | 311

Please choose ONE unique username and stick to it. Using multiple names is sockpuppeteering and will get you banned. Are some animals more equal than others? Regarding:
Kathemy/KathemE/Tichy/Kathem-Y/Tichy, Again/ et al ad nauseum

Posted by: Quid Me Vexare | Feb 26 2023 15:51 utc | 312

‼️🇷🇺RUSSIA HAS THE RIGHT TO PUNISH NAZIS EVERYWHERE (according to the UN Charter) 🔥🔥🔥
If this is true… NATO has no leg to stand on…
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Feb 25 2023 22:29 utc | 154
In particular article 107 of UN charter should apply: Article 107 specifies:
Nothing in the present Charter shall invalidate or preclude action, in relation to any state which during the Second World War has been an enemy of any signatory to the present Charter, taken or authorized as a result of that war by the Governments having responsibility for such action.

Posted by: Konrad | Feb 26 2023 15:59 utc | 313

Posted by: Passerby | Feb 26 2023 7:55 utc | 259
it’s better not to state your views at work (in Germany)
same in “progressive” states.
soon, they will have to accept our views, barring uncle crazy blowing it all up. i will be kind, because the u.s. doesn’t raise critical thinkers anymore and i care for them.

Posted by: polarbear4 | Feb 26 2023 16:19 utc | 314

Scorpion @238–
There’s a wicked, tangled, convoluted web related to settlements that Ben Norton explains during this long, informative “Inside Latin America’s new currency plan, with Ecuador’s presidential candidate Andrés Arauz” interview.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 26 2023 16:30 utc | 315

Posted by: shadowbanned | Feb 26 2023 13:51 utc | 297
Probably because the Russian General staff are not going to expend strategic resources on stopping a weapon system that will have little tactical, let alone operational impact. Tigers and Panthers, could not redress the operational and strategic problems besetting the Germans, even arguably worsening them, why do you think it will be any different for Ukraine today, especially when using tanks that are 30-plus years old, not contemporary designs?

Posted by: Milites | Feb 26 2023 17:20 utc | 316

Opport Knocks | Feb 26 2023 15:07 utc | 314
I tend to classify posts that insist the Rothschilds are to blame for everything in the world alongside the posts claiming that Hitler and the entire National Socialist leadership were Jewish.
There’s always a lot of chaff mixed in with the wheat.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 26 2023 17:56 utc | 317

Probably because the Russian General staff are not going to expend strategic resources on stopping a weapon system that will have little tactical, let alone operational impact. Tigers and Panthers, could not redress the operational and strategic problems besetting the Germans, even arguably worsening them, why do you think it will be any different for Ukraine today, especially when using tanks that are 30-plus years old, not contemporary designs?
Posted by: Milites | Feb 26 2023 17:20 utc | 320

What “strategic resource”?
Did you even read what I posted?
We’re talking about stuff very close to the front lines, in range of tactical artillery.

Posted by: shadowbanned | Feb 26 2023 18:49 utc | 318

Posted by: shadowbanned | Feb 26 2023 18:49 utc |
Did you even read what I posted?
Yes, pity the same could not be said about you.
‘RU has the technical means to have completely cut off the whole of Donbass from any possibility of tanks ever getting there.’ A strategic decision requiring strategic assets.
‘…to destroy them before they get to the battlefield even though the whole area is supposed to be under constant surveillance by drones and satellites…’ Tasking, re-tasking satellites is a strategic decision.
‘In this case, the only railway link is from Kramatorsk to Konstantinovka. Well within Tornado-S range..’ Seen by many as a theatre based/strategic weapon due to range and destructive potential.

Posted by: Milites | Feb 26 2023 21:18 utc | 319

D-44s are the most common training gun in the former Warsaw Treaty Organisation. They were used extensively to get around the “no 100mm+” guns rule in the Minsk ‘Agreements’ as they are 85mm and as there are literally oodles of them around as training guns there is buckets of ammunition for them.
I’m guessing, note the word ‘guessing’ that this gun is either one of the guns that was pounding the Donbass from 2008 onwards and finally got taken out or it was one from the reserve used in desperation.
The Rapira is a special case. The Rapira’s in Russia are more advanced than the ones in the other former Warsaw Treaty Organisation states and the Russian ones can be radar-aimed making them quite deadly indeed. I’m not sure if the Ukrainian ones have this capability.
M101s are usually emergency mobilisation only guns, still commonly held in reserve in many nations. They are perfectly serviceable for an Interwar gun but have limited range, mobility and accuracy and are not suitable for a high intensity war.

Posted by: James Lawrie | Feb 27 2023 3:21 utc | 320

This strategy still applies:
Two days after Hitler invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941, Truman said: If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible although I don’t want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances.

Posted by: CK | Feb 28 2023 13:52 utc | 321