Ukraine Open Thread 2023-43
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Putin's speech is currently ongoing. You can watch an English live translation on Rumble:
https://rumble.com/v2aay62-putin-delivers-address-to-federal-assembly.html
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Posted by b on February 21, 2023 at 9:15 UTC | Permalink
next page »Posted by: rosemerry | Feb 21 2023 9:49 utc | 2
Bonjour Rosemerry, voici un lien (traduction française) :
Posted by: Fabrice | Feb 21 2023 9:58 utc | 3
Absolutely not one thing yet in the speech that justifies the hype. What was all the buildup for?
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 10:38 utc | 4
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 10:38 utc | 5
My thoughts exactly. A huge nothing burger.
Posted by: Jax | Feb 21 2023 10:40 utc | 5
Text highlights of Putin's address
https://t.me/arhnow/8674 and further on
I am surprised. After the intro and list of grievances how West abused Russia - The next hour of talk was focused on domestic affairs, not "unions with China" (which Sonar21 expected to be the focal bombshell of the speech) or other foreign policy issues.
The address is still going on, so it might come later, but not yet.
Posted by: Arioch | Feb 21 2023 10:49 utc | 6
Putin's State of the Nation speech is over.
- No announcement of anything military.
- Just the usual standard list of mentioning this or that success and new economic plans.
- Pretty nationalistic over all.
"Russia will stand up to any challenges,we are confident in our strength,the truth is with us -Putin"
NOT the announcement of the next wave of mobilization some hoped for :D
Posted by: Erast Fandorin | Feb 21 2023 10:55 utc | 8
He did say something in the idea that that long range weapons will force them to push the front line. He suspended START since US won't allow inspections and wants to "defeat" Russia. He said that he has info that US wants to resume nuke tests and if they do then Russia will resume tests too.
Posted by: rk | Feb 21 2023 10:58 utc | 9
Also iEarlGrey said that bbc live translation was twisting the words, changing them. Not surprising at all.
Posted by: rk | Feb 21 2023 11:00 utc | 10
Over.
So, not a word about alliance with China or America or anyone.
START treaty (not sure which one) is put on hold. That's perhaps the only FP thing.
The rest was about domestic issues.
The "zeitgeist" of a speech feels close to "splendid isolation" if not autarkia.
Foreign concerns and expectations were not even mentioned after the intro, in "what and how should we enhance" sections.
If Putin's address had any message to other nations - then it was "we don't care, we are playing solo now" one (so, for foreign watchers this was really a nothingburger, they were explicitly left out).
To me... I can hardly watch politicians speech, to me them all seem "astroturf" meaning less wordplay. This speech was at least somewhat meaningful.
Would Putin instead focus on relationships with EU, USA or even China - that would've been a nothingburger for me
Posted by: Arioch | Feb 21 2023 11:01 utc | 11
Lol, MoA removes a mild critique because his ego shatters.
Posted by: Old Fart Legion | Feb 21 2023 11:01 utc | 12
I only caught the tail-end about suspending participation in New START.
Posted by: Skiffer | Feb 21 2023 11:02 utc | 13
Posted by: b | Feb 21 2023 10:54 utc | 8
To me it came across as patriotic rather than nationalistic, but that might down to the translation I was getting.
Poking the trolls a little bit: it was definitely not the speech of a leader about to be overthrown...
Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 21 2023 11:03 utc | 14
Basically a renewed justification of decoupling from the West, in combination with an outlook on how Russia will proceed to do so. And the usual promises to build competitive industries instead of relying on the sale of raw materials, energy and agricultural goods.
Posted by: Erast Fandorin | Feb 21 2023 11:03 utc | 15
Also, "Ukrainian regime and their western masters are essentially occupying Ukrainian nation".
Can be just a jingoistic rhetoric. Or can be official denying any legitimacy to Kiev governments. I do not think Putin or other top officials used such wording before (journalists did, but that is probing and entertainment).
Posted by: Arioch | Feb 21 2023 11:04 utc | 16
Absolutely not one thing yet in the speech that justifies the hype. What was all the buildup for?
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 10:38 utc | 4
Point is, who made all the hype? Russians do it the Russian way, be it on the battlefield or with annual speeches. Elsewhere further West, they fling about fancy words, accusations, and threats. I doubt Putin went there to tell everyone about the start of the offensive.
Posted by: CM of Berlin | Feb 21 2023 11:05 utc | 17
Heck, missed to include the link to the Telegram channel that has the English transcript.
https://t.me/fortherussiantruth
Worthwhile channel for all sorts of news.
Posted by: CM of Berlin | Feb 21 2023 11:08 utc | 18
FWIW, MK Bhadrakumar and Pepe Escobar each posted Tweets close to the start of Putin’s speech that may shine some light in behind-the-scenes chatter (if you believe they have sources for that stuff)
Bhadrakumar:
“Isn't it high time Russian side discloses what all it knows about the can of Ukrainian worms Biden and family is holding post-2014 regime change when he was the master of ceremonies? Republicans would love to hear. What's the point in observing propriety? It takes two to tango!”
https://twitter.com/BhadraPunchline/status/1627916427834589184
Escobar:
“ “Why would we threaten him? Who will replace Biden? Kamala Harris? Biden, despite all his dementia, still thinks, and he has some kind of limits. She has no limits at all - whatever Blinken and Sullivan tell her, she will do."
Military expert Yevgeny Buzhinsky”
https://twitter.com/RealPepeEscobar/status/1627941885091237888
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Feb 21 2023 11:08 utc | 19
People fretting over a speech. Talk is cheap. People weigh in to heavily to what was said and over expectations, not to mention twisting out of context meanings become the obsession due jour. Let's pay attention to the actions. This is ain wrestling entertainment.
Posted by: Gankanas | Feb 21 2023 11:12 utc | 20
Putin’s speech was a waste of everyone’s time. No substance, just empty rhetoric with even emptier promises on the back of thousands of lives lost in Ukraine and the prospect of thousands more to be slaughtered. And for what? For one man’s ego and the illusion of the glory of Russia.
Posted by: Tom UK | Feb 21 2023 11:14 utc | 21
I read Putins speech on the kremlins page - summary: Nothing essentially new to see here. I'm rather happy that nothing unexpected has been said, that brings us closer to a continental war. I hope - time will tell - serious talks happen behind the scenes. My plan is to live further 20 years.
Posted by: Tapio | Feb 21 2023 11:15 utc | 22
Good speech. Not too many thought balloons, very typical national report.
Back to the grinder everybody.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 21 2023 11:18 utc | 23
At the same time China's Global Security Initiative proposal
Posted by: c | Feb 21 2023 11:19 utc | 24
All those dissing the speech should bear in mind that we aren’t the primary audience, we are just interested bystanders. Remember this is the Presidential Address to the Russian Parliament and by inference, to the voting citizens of Russia.
The opening 20 minutes or so came across to me as also addressing audiences in the ‘Global South’/Zone B/non-aligned nations.
Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 21 2023 11:20 utc | 25
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 21 2023 11:18 utc | 23
Just like that.
Posted by: Down South | Feb 21 2023 11:20 utc | 26
Putin's speech was directed to the domestic audience, not to the "West".
It was *exactly* what was to be expected. Maybe not for Tom UK, that is.
Posted by: Verdant | Feb 21 2023 11:22 utc | 27
Putin issued an ultimatum to Biden and raised the stakes, which could greatly affect the further course of the war in Ukraine.The emphasis is on the fact that if pressure continues to grow on Russia (deliveries of new weapons to Ukraine), then the Kremlin will completely break the parity in the nuclear sphere. We are talking about withdrawing from the START treaty, from the moratorium on nuclear testing and cooperation with other countries in the manufacture of nuclear weapons.
In fact, Putin has nullified Biden's initiatives and is "blackmailing" his administration with a nuclear case, which should influence the Western voter, who is ready to fight Ukrainians and give equipment, but is not ready to die himself.
Such a hint that tomorrow Russia "possibly" will transfer nuclear technology to Iran, which wants the collapse of the United States. Well, or to someone else, for something, and against someone ...
https://t.me/legitimniy/14829
Posted by: Down South | Feb 21 2023 11:24 utc | 28
I liked the part where he laughed at rich Russians who now have nothing because they put everything in the West and now it's confiscated. He even said they won't get any help, they can beg in the West.
Posted by: rk | Feb 21 2023 11:24 utc | 29
The departing from nuclear agreement was very clearly based on the publicly indicated strategic goal by USA (+ assorted vassals and protectorates) to break up Russia. US has shown no sign or evidence of completing an intra-atmospheric hypersonic missile, not to even mention showing any sign of having capability to intercept such weapons. They are having trouble even with Houthi rockets, which can be modified nebelwerfer or katyusha rockets.
If you make public threats like that to someone, don't be surprised if they destroy you first.
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 21 2023 11:31 utc | 30
I am in free France. No Rumble allowed.
Posted by: rosemerry | Feb 21 2023 9:49 utc
If using Windows computer try GoodbyDPI by ValdikSS, who knows, maybe it would unlock Internet for you, maybe not.
Posted by: Arioch | Feb 21 2023 11:34 utc | 31
In the Woody Allen movie Love and Death, he says "I'm dead and they're talking about wheat".
After one year, Russia is still not able to stop the shelling on Donetsk City and today, I kid you not, Putin talked about wheat instead.
To my fellow commentators, stop Waiting for Godot. There will be no winter or spring offensive.
For Putin to give this speech after Biden Humiliated him in Kiev, is pathetic.
Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Feb 21 2023 11:36 utc | 32
I'll play Captain Obvious. When Putin said Russia is united and confident you could look around the room and see that he was making a true statement. When he talked of childrens letters to soldiers he was talking to children and soldiers and mothers and not referencing Norman Rockwell paintings of a bygone age. He presented as the guy who stands up to the bully and watches the bully run.
Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 21 2023 11:39 utc | 33
Posted by: b | Feb 21 2023 10:54 utc | 7
How about suspending START?
Posted by: Paco | Feb 21 2023 11:43 utc | 34
Troll UK | Feb 21 2023 11:14 utc | 21
And for what? Russia's independence and a multi-polar world. I pray they are successful and their sacrifices aren't in vain.
I pray for the poor young Ukrainians sent by lies to kill and be killed. And I curse the men and women who created this, the paymasters of the Maidan shootings and the "Colour Revolutions".
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 21 2023 11:47 utc | 36
Vladimir Putin just showed how insane the western hostile countrys are, by contrast.
That's a man with a plan, the body language tells its a good one.
For the west it's, the fear of the unknown.
Masterfully
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 21 2023 11:49 utc | 37
Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Feb 21 2023 11:36 utc | 32
Great humiliation after asking permission to take a train ride. Russia won't hang or knife sodomize any head of state, nor will they goof with classical lines like we came we saw he died.
Posted by: Paco | Feb 21 2023 11:50 utc | 38
I wouldn't have criticised the speech but for all the buildup and the hints about tremendous announcements. Tax breaks for families with 2 or more children to buy a house isn't exactly a tremendous announcement. The suspension of START II is something that hasn't even happened; Slutsky said if the bill is introduced in the Duma it'll be passed.
Ultimately,a waste of time. And I gatsby dream my strip today because I thought I should wait for some startling announcement that needed immediate cartooning.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 11:52 utc | 39
Posted by: Paco | Feb 21 2023 11:43 utc | 34
Suspending START plus implicating France and UK in the deal, just like the US tried to implicate China. Plus tit for tat if there are nuclear tests.
Posted by: Paco | Feb 21 2023 11:57 utc | 41
Maybe the critical item is the Duma vote rather than the speech - what if Putin is asking the Duma to approve a state of all-out war against NATO, since NATO has committed too many acts of war against Russia? In that case it would have to be kept secret before (maybe even immediately after) the vote. In that event, expect prompt elimination of NATO satellites tomorrow after the vote. Any escalation in response to the blinding/destruction of satellites: expect countermeasures in advance.
Posted by: BM | Feb 21 2023 11:57 utc | 42
21.02.2023 14:24
On summoning US Ambassador to Moscow L. Tracy to the Russian Foreign Ministry
machine translation
Summoned to the Russian Foreign Ministry, the head of the American diplomatic mission made a demarche on February 21 in connection with the growing involvement of the United States in the fighting on the side of the Kiev regime.The protest note sent to the Ambassador emphasizes that the pumping of weapons to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, as well as the transfer of target designations for striking Russian military and civilian infrastructure facilities, clearly prove the inconsistency and falsity of the American side's claims that the United States is not a party to the conflict. It is also indicated that the weapons supplied to Kiev, as well as service personnel, including American citizens, are a legitimate target.
In this regard, the Ambassador was told that the current aggressive course of the United States to deepen the confrontation with Russia in all areas is counterproductive. It was emphasized that in order to de-escalate the situation, Washington should take steps involving the withdrawal of US-NATO military and equipment, as well as the cessation of hostile anti-Russian activity.
The Russian side also stressed that the United States should provide explanations about the explosions on the Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 gas pipelines and not interfere with an objective investigation to identify those responsible.
In addition, a number of bilateral issues were discussed during the meeting.
https://www.mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/1855127/
The UN Security Council takes up the issue of NS sabotage later today.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 21 2023 11:57 utc | 43
I am content with the speech. In the end the battle will decide, and the market place too. I did like his little quips on the Western-loving oligarchs who have seen their wealth frozen or confiscated.
The image of the West as a safe haven turned out to be fake. Those who considered Russia only as a source of income have lost a lot. In the West they were simply robbed. None of the ordinary citizens of the Russian Federation weep for those who lost their accounts in foreign banks, lost their yachts. People remember both the privatization of the 90s and the display of luxury.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 21 2023 12:02 utc | 44
Posted by: Arioch | Feb 21 2023 11:04 utc | 16
I caught that, too. Possible justification for the Russian Federation annexing the whole of Ukraine - which, as I've said repeatedly, is the only way Russia can achieve at least partially the security requirements outlined in the December, 2021, treaty proposals.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 21 2023 12:19 utc | 45
Mentioning that ordinary Russians do not regret about confiscated assets of Russian oligarchs by the West was something everyone in that hall had to hear. Ordinary Russians truly rejoiced. Invest in Russia. Avoid offshores. Do not take foreign debts. Support the mobilized ones. Come back to Soviet model of education and so on. This is exactly what patriots wanted to hear. The aim of this message is to unite the country.
Posted by: Yuri | Feb 21 2023 12:19 utc | 46
Wow, the trolls are going in heavily today. President Putin's speech was very powerful, just cope with it. All diplomatic ties with the West seem broken now. The consequences for the world are immense, the twentieth century politics are gone forever.
Posted by: Anthony | Feb 21 2023 12:22 utc | 47
Also iEarlGrey said that bbc live translation was twisting the words, changing them. Not surprising at all.
Posted by: rk | Feb 21 2023 11:00 utc | 10
I don’t speak Russian , so I’m unable to confirm the accuracy of the BBC translation. What I can confirm is that the BBC used a translator with a risible accent similar to the UK/ German comedian Henning Wehn. With unflattering editing it’s all part of a BBC strategy to make Putin appear ridiculous and portray him as unhinged to the UK bewildered herd, so as to justify further escalation.
Many people have described the speech as unremarkable. I think that was by design, as if to say ‘life goes on in Russia, we can grind down the Ukraininian proxies of NATO, while improving infrastructure and giving targeted tax breaks’.
The ‘rhetoric’ that UK politicians can merely dream about, as our mortgages double, energy costs are quadrupled in the past two years and the tax burden on ordinary UK citizens reaches record high levels.
Stop the war and it’s myriad adverse effects to ordinary people. Demand a negotiated peace now.
Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Feb 21 2023 12:25 utc | 48
Currently listening to comments on BBC Radio about Putin's and Biden's speeches. It is like living in a parallel universe. One "Professor of Politics" actually commented the unconditional surrender was a good thing to try to impose on Russia. The western MSM (based on this broadcast at least) completely rejects the notion that Russia had a causus belli, and that the Ukrainianians might be about to lose this war. Putin bad and mad, Biden good and coherent. Reducing geo-politics to sound bites.
The radio debate is about what the end of the war might look like. Hmmm... let me think. Tough one....
Priming western public opinion to accept less than total victory?? Who knows? I think that the western public may be very disappointed.
Posted by: marcjf | Feb 21 2023 12:26 utc | 49
190 battalions in Donbass alone waiting for the order...which I suspect will be given on Friday, February 24th.
The week ain't over yet.
As I said in the last thread, the speech was impressive if for no other reason than his command of what it takes to run a country, and the detail in which he outlined what the Russian government wants to see develop in the country, economically and socially. Beggars anything you hear from Western leaders.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 21 2023 12:28 utc | 50
Nowhere in the west do I see someone speaking about Education as Putin did. The russian "paideia" makes the collective west's one look like an unfortunate delusion, if not some sort of criminal aberration.
Posted by: Luís Borges | Feb 21 2023 12:30 utc | 51
What does it mean precisely for Putin to say that strategic ground launched nuclear missiles are deployed as of now, post-New Start?
Missiles are launch ready in Kaliningrad?
Posted by: Hodor | Feb 21 2023 12:31 utc | 52
Whether consciously or unplanned: Putin did not offer Biden a presentation of any kind of Russian aggression and escalation in resounding words.
Everything relies on pragmatic work and calm alone. This focus on challenging the present as a result of changes with a view to a future will come across as a provocation as Moscow increasingly turns its back on the West. "Indeed, the Western elites have become a symbol of total unprincipled lies."
And this "pragmatic tedious calm" is the accompaniment to Russian warfare. Don't rush, we'll keep going, we'll win. Russia will continue its offensive in Ukraine "carefully and consistently," Putin said. "It is impossible to defeat our country on the battlefield."
This shows the Europeans that Europe gains nothing from this war but loses a lot, without addressing their political leadership directly, why should he? The Russian bear has so many things to discover in its huge world that it doesn't have to look anywhere back. Basically, it was a summary of Putin's positions over the past 18 months.
Therefore, an emphasis on "irreversible change" was maintained as a central theme. It also concerned the life and work of oligarchs in Western countries, which Putin somewhat mocked, to the delight of the audience. He asked them not to live in the past to fight in European courts for their stolen property shares, but to return to their homeland to invest there to create something of meaning.
Russia will not terminate the New Start agreement, but will suspend it, Putin said in his speech. The reason is that the USA and NATO wanted to inflict a "strategic defeat" on Russia and at the same time complained that Russia would not allow the inspections of nuclear facilities provided for in the New Start Agreement.
Many social areas were addressed in the domestic area. Child benefit, increase and adjustment of minimum wage, help for families of fallen soldiers (In Europe, states also adjust wages to inflation, but most lag behind, a majority seems to co-finance their (sanctions) war against Russia through inflation at the expense of their citizens, with wages rising far less than inflation).
Focus on sustainable education and research from which something new can emerge: Seems like Russia is planning a counter-Bologna: diploma courses (masters in Europe) should not take four years but soon six years(?)
"Russia has a right to be strong."
Posted by: Konrad | Feb 21 2023 12:41 utc | 53
And by contrast again...
Having that speech fresh in our minds, consider Zelensky!
What an obnoxious spoilt little brat he is in comparison.
Just wanting wanting more and more toy weapons, weapons that kill people both ends.
He might be a brat but i know, he's our brat. And to hell with the actual Ukrainian people, as far as the west is concerned their welfare dose not matter !
That right there proves the lie to this whole sorry dabarckle.
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 21 2023 12:49 utc | 54
Wang Yi is visiting Moscow today, likely to present the PRC's peace plan. According to Ukraine, Wang Yi has already sent it to them and they are studying the proposals.
I think then this plays out as follows: after a period of review Russia will probably say the terms of the plan are acceptable and publicly announce say they're willing to sign. Ukraine will reject it because there's no way they'll make any territorial concessions to Russia.
After that China will say Ukraine is acting irrationally and are not interested in peace. As a result China will then start providing lethal support to Russia. After that god knows where this ends up as the West simply are not interested in a rational peace deal here.
Posted by: sidewinder | Feb 21 2023 13:01 utc | 55
Very much accustomed to the sound and fury of the presstitutes, all you people of the "Hype" cannot possibly understand what is happening here. I have not read or heard the entire speech but something caught my attention immediately: the president or Russia (a country at war right now) have said that Ukraine (part the Russian traditional territories) is occupied, and that this occupation is part of a plan that has existed since the 19th century, and that one of the main planners (of this vicious plan to divide and conquer Russia) was Poland. This is really serious, because it means that: a) there is no possibility whatsoever of any partition or division of the traditional territories of Rusia, and b) the traditional territories of Russia should (and will be) liberated from the occupants that are trying to carry out that plan elaborated in the XIX century. (It follows, therefore, that now is the time to solve this problem once and for all.) There, between the lines (between this and that) there is the complete strategical idea (the matrix idea) behind the Russian military operation.
"He who has eyes to see, let him see, and he who has ears to hear, let him hear."
Posted by: deepEye | Feb 21 2023 13:01 utc | 56
Posted by: rosemerry | Feb 21 2023 9:49 utc | 2
France, like Germany, has NEVER been "free-thinking". It has always been dirigiste in ensuring Gleichschaltung.
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Feb 21 2023 13:05 utc | 57
Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Feb 21 2023 12:25 utc | 48
The paucity of Russian-speakers in UK is evident. Try to buy a Russian-English Dictionary. In the old Soviet days Colletts on TCR was a great place to find them printed in Moscow but nowadays I think only OUP puts out a dictionary.
Very few people study Russian and the fact that so few are conversant has limited the ability of the clapped out regime in London - Govt + BBC - to function.
BBC is simply another institution like Church of England and Government and Monarchy thoroughly hollowed out and surviving only as a termite-infested structure
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Feb 21 2023 13:10 utc | 58
Posted by: deepEye | Feb 21 2023 13:01 utc | 56
Again, this represents the idea that Russia needs to annex "Ukraine" - the "border lands" - back into the Russian Federation, and thereby forestall any plans of Poland - and by extension the West - to threaten Russia.
Which means no giving any land, including Galicia, to Poland, and putting a new Military District on Poland's borders with strategic weapons. This is the only way to counter NATO and its Aegis Ashore installations in Poland and Romania. The proof is that Belarus is being transformed into an arm of the Russian military with the same intentions - counter NATO in Poland.
As for Transnistria, it doesn't matter what NATO tries in Moldova. When Russia reaches the western Ukraine border, it will take over Transnistria and settle with Moldova one way or the other. The same will happen to Poland if Poland engages in any further military hostilities towards Russia in Ukraine.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 21 2023 13:22 utc | 59
I'm happy with that speech. My worry was that the Russians could do something dangerous like going into military overdrive.
About the big announcement: We, as the bar flights, are not the addressed audience. We know what's going on. The audience were the west in general. And the west got a big, big "Fuck You"(*)
(*) Sorry for using swear words. Won't happen again.
Posted by: Tuk | Feb 21 2023 13:23 utc | 60
For one man’s ego and the illusion of the glory of Russia.
Posted by: Tom UK | Feb 21 2023 11:14 utc | 21
One man’s ego? That’s what you think? Too much BBC…
Posted by: RB | Feb 21 2023 13:25 utc | 61
Since Putin has announced the suspension of the New Start Treaty, presumably one task that the Duma will have to address tomorrow is legislation to enact that.
Posted by: BM | Feb 21 2023 13:37 utc | 62
Good gibbering ghost of Kiev, I just saw this:
Two "wonderful" news from Spain.
After two years of battles among deputies, the Congress finally approved a law on transgender people.
Teenagers aged 16 will now be able to change the gender in their identity documents without parental consent. They can do this even if they are not on hormone therapy and without a medical diagnosis of “gender dysphoria” (which will soon be removed from the classification of diseases altogether). Minors between the ages of 14 and 16 can also change their gender if their parents consent. However, if the parents refuse, a legal defender can be appointed to resolve the conflict for the minor and push for the "transitioning".
Single gays and "fertile transgender people" now have access to assisted reproduction. It was previously only available to married women or women who have a heterosexual partner.
The words “mother”, “woman” or “man” will be abolished from all regulations and, in accordance with the norms of inclusive language, replaced with phrases such as “pregnant parent”.
Amendments have also been made to the law “On the Protection of Animal Rights”. Now bestiality is not considered a crime and is not punishable by law, unless the animal has received "a serious injury requiring veterinary treatment." Previously, article 337.1 of the Criminal Code provided for punishment in the form of imprisonment for a term of three months to one year for bestiality. Now it has been removed from the Spain's Criminal Code, along with the concept of "sexual exploitation of animals."
Welcome to the "civilized world"
@thecoppermountain
t.me/thecoppermountain/2829
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 13:38 utc | 63
Re: BBC mistranslating Putin’s speech live.
During the long War to Destroy Yugoslavia it was quite common to see man in the street TV interview with a voice over translation that was completely at odds with the orginal snippets one could hear behind the translation.
Posted by: Exile | Feb 21 2023 13:40 utc | 64
@BM 62:
Yes, Slutsky said as much, but I don't know if it'll be done tomorrow.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 13:40 utc | 65
@Yuri 46
Mentioning that ordinary Russians do not regret about confiscated assets of Russian oligarchs by the West was something everyone in that hall had to hear. Ordinary Russians truly rejoiced.
This is an angle I had not previously considered. When I heard that the West had confiscated Russian "assets" as part of sanctions, I presumed that these were state-owned. I did not understand that these were assets of individual Russians, mainly oligarchs, held in western banks.
If this is largely true, the sanctions have not just backfired, they have become the biggest geopolitical blunder of the West perhaps since the treaty of Versailles. Imagine if Russia sanctioned the US, and the only losers were Bill Gates, Larry Fink, and other billionaires. While Joe-the-plumber and Jane the GM worker get richer. That would be the best thing to happen to America since the Louisiana Purchase.
Posted by: Chris | Feb 21 2023 13:46 utc | 66
Question from journalist Ekaterina Lushnikova and the answer:
“Hello,
According to the US government, about 30,000 fighters have died in the ranks of the Wagner PMC since the beginning of the JMD.
How could you comment on this information, is it true?
If not, how many dead and wounded in the ranks of the PMC "Wagner" really?
How many were shot or beaten with a sledgehammer for treason and desertion?”
Prigozhin:
“Catherine, thanks for the question. Indeed, since the beginning of the SMO, a large number of deaths. There are more than 30 thousand of them. I think about 100-110 thousand, but your wording is wrong. They did not die in the ranks of the PMC "Wagner", but died, falling into the battle formations of the PMC "Wagner". And all these are servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and other structures who are trying to fight the Wagner PMC. Therefore, the total number of dead Ukrainian soldiers is about 110 thousand, destroyed by the hands of Wagner PMC. Hope you like my answer.
We do not shoot prisoners of war and do not beat them with a sledgehammer. However, dear Ekaterina, if you, as part of a friendly company from the US government, come to us, then perhaps we will think about how to use the sledgehammer. Thank you"
Posted by: rk | Feb 21 2023 13:50 utc | 67
pulling out of next generation start', that is extending and reducing nuclear weapons reductions, is saying 'we cannot talk to usa, they are not to be trusted.
and usa needs to upgrade its 1960's icbm's, trillions taken away from a humane socirety in usa.
this will affect the on-going smo.
Posted by: paddy | Feb 21 2023 14:07 utc | 68
It's about time.
‘They started the war’: Russia’s Putin blames West and Ukraine for provoking conflict
Russian President Vladimir Putin on Tuesday used a highly anticipated speech to deny responsibility for the war in Ukraine and lash out at his adversaries. His comments come despite repeated rejections of Putin’s narrative surrounding the war by Western nations and Ukraine. . . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 21 2023 14:09 utc | 69
Anyone else recognize the voice of Alex from Donbass Devushka as one of the translators on Rumble?
Posted by: zeke2u | Feb 21 2023 14:09 utc | 70
Much troll vomit today, seems they sleep in it.....careful where you step.....
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 21 2023 14:10 utc | 71
A more than an hour long speech and not a word about balloons! what's the world coming to?
Posted by: Merlin 2 | Feb 21 2023 14:15 utc | 72
Fairly predictable mealy-mouthed waffle from Stoltenberg, responding to President Putin’s announcement about START.
From Interfax:
Moscow. February 21. INTERFAX.EN-NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said that he regrets the decision of the Russian Federation to suspend participation in the Strategic Offensive Arms Treaty (START Treaty) and calls on Moscow to reconsider this step."I regret Russia's decision to suspend its participation in the Strategic Offensive Arms Treaty... I urge Russia to reconsider this decision and return to compliance with the existing agreement, " he said at a press conference in Brussels on Tuesday.
According to him, with this decision on the START Treaty, "the entire architecture of arms control has been eliminated."
Stoltenberg stressed that " a situation in which there are more weapons and less arms control makes the world a more dangerous place."
He described Russia's actions as "a departure from the rules-based world order that we have been building for decades."
For his part, the head of European diplomacy Josep Borrel noted that " Russia's announcement to suspend participation in the START Treaty is another example of how Russia is destroying the security system built at the end of the cold war."
Earlier on Tuesday, during a message to the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Moscow unilaterally suspends participation in the START Treaty.
https://www.interfax.ru/world/887198 (translated via Firefox Translate add-on)
Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 21 2023 14:17 utc | 73
Posted by: paddy | Feb 21 2023 14:07 utc | 68
IIRC, in the beginning of Biden presidency almost first thing he did was scrap the nuclear arm modernization program as too expensive. Maybe it costs something like $300 billion.
Perhaps it would turn out as a similar comedy show as the F-35 program.
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 21 2023 14:18 utc | 74
Interesting quote from RT: "The goal of those in power in the US and other Western nations is to “end us once and for all,” the Russian leader stated during a keynote speech on Tuesday. They are using Ukraine as a “battering ram” against Russia and don’t care how many people will die as a result, he said.
“They intend to turn a local conflict into a phase of global confrontation. That is how we understand things and will react accordingly. Because the issue here is the existence of our state,” Putin said."
This is sort of the equivalent of "fu*k around and find out"
Posted by: ctiger | Feb 21 2023 14:18 utc | 75
Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 21 2023 14:17 utc | 73
Here we go again, this a-hole talking about the "rules based order". WE make and change the rules when and how we want, you others follow them.
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 21 2023 14:21 utc | 76
My takeaway is that Putin's speech was more about confirming his ideological foundation of capitalism and "free marketeering" as opposed to communist ideology and the planned economy of the Soviets. There was also a plea to conservatism, the upholding of the immaculate deception, and the monogamous patrilineal "family" as the ideal that's being attacked by the gender bending 'west'. Engels and Stalin must be rolling in their graves...
Posted by: zeke2u | Feb 21 2023 14:23 utc | 77
I have to agree with commenters upthread (sorry too many references):
1. The tone of "we'll carry on because we must, but here's what we are doing at home" is both powerful and refreshing. Russia would vote to go to war, but that is not necessary, so they arent doing it. If it ever does become necessary, then I would believe Putin has gained credibility with the middle and the doubters on Russia. It won't sit perfectly well with the hardliners, but that is good for Russia and the world. Putin is threading needles here.
2. This was not the speech of a crisis leader. Earlier comments comparing his measure tone to Zelensky! and the rhetoric from the west are on point. The 'rest' of the world will notice, but expect an increase in FUD.
3. The START thing is potentially huge. No comment until I think about it more, but the ramifications are mind boggling and not all nice
Posted by: dask | Feb 21 2023 14:25 utc | 78
"I have multiple friends in "The Orchestra". And it is not only Wagner who are getting shorted of vital supplies by the fucking "Big Shots" who NEVER go near the war. Khodakovsky has also written about requesting artillery support for VOSTOK operations and being told that the RF Army needs to "conserve ammo". Fuck that shit. As I have said for months now, about the Dniper bridges, about the ukrop rail lines, about the ammo "shortages" and the general and giant fuck-ups of the whole SMO, this many "mistakes" cannot be explained by mere stupidity and cowardice, though I am sure that is a great part of it. To withhold ammo from units who are fighting and winning is not stupid, it is treachery."
Draw your own conclusions. Anyone except worshippers of Martyanov must come to the conclusion that some people in power do not want this war to be won.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 14:25 utc | 79
Pleased with Putin speech. He made it clear that Russia has split from the current globalist elites governments running the West. No compromise, no concessions. Russia has put up with enough. To me it was a calm F...You to the West speech and the Russians will appreciate the message conveyed. Resolve to finish the job.
Posted by: JustTruth | Feb 21 2023 14:25 utc | 80
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 14:25 utc | 79
Have no trouble believing that shortages may be occurring, bur the list of why, if true, needs to be expanded:
-Russia actually fears NATO incursion and has set supply aside for that
-vanilla corruption.. E.g supplies that were claimed to have been produced are not there
-Maskirovka, etc.
-Russia has reached the 'just in time' stage for certain items, and still needs to arm the new formations
-etc.
All that said, and politics aside, I'd be feeding Prigozhin anything he asked for at the moment...
Posted by: dask | Feb 21 2023 14:33 utc | 81
Here we go again, this a-hole talking about the "rules based order". WE make and change the rules when and how we want, you others follow them.
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 21 2023 14:21 utc | 76
Yes, that was pretty much my reaction as well, when I read that bit.
Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 21 2023 14:34 utc | 82
Oh, BTW, Interfax has the full text of the Presidential Address here: https://www.interfax.ru/russia/887155
It’s in Russian but my browser Translate add-on coped with it OK. Well worth a read...
Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 21 2023 14:43 utc | 83
So Russia needs also to conserve ammo. I see no problem with this. Looks like even Russia is running short.
Im ok with them conserving ammo and saving it for their regular army.
Mercenaries need to be at the end of the line. And no you cant have unlimited supply of ammo when stocks are running low.
Im ok with all of this.
Posted by: Comandante | Feb 21 2023 14:43 utc | 84
Speaking of Martyanov, a few days ago the mass of stinking rancid blubber was mocking the alleged falling silent of Sladkov, Kots, and other media people risking their lives on the Donbass frontline. Yet this bag of sewer gas is now entirely silent himself apart from "open threads" and plugging his book in writing.
What a hypocritical piece of ordure.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 14:47 utc | 85
Putin’s speech was a waste of everyone’s time. No substance, just empty rhetoric with even emptier promises on the back of thousands of lives lost in Ukraine and the prospect of thousands more to be slaughtered. And for what? For one man’s ego and the illusion of the glory of Russia.
Posted by: Tom UK | Feb 21 2023 11:14 utc | 21
Putin has only done what the West has demanded. He has turned around 360 degrees.
You would only need to post your nick anyway. Then we know you are against Putin, Russia ...
Posted by: 600w | Feb 21 2023 14:47 utc | 86
@Comabdante 84:
The Russian army is hardly fighting at all, almost all the fighting is being done by Wagner and the LDNR, so you're statement is ipso facto invalid.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 14:48 utc | 87
@Comabdante 84:
The Russian army is hardly fighting at all, almost all the fighting is being done by Wagner and the LDNR, so you're statement is ipso facto invalid.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 14:48 utc | 87
Maybe. Maybe not. But its logical that they need to conserve ammo if the stocks are running low.
Who knows they might not want to admit publicly that they are as short on ammo as the West.
Again. Russian leadership makes decision on a global strategic level. Do they make mistakes? Yes.
But accussing them of purposely denying ammo to soldiers in order to purposely lose the war is dumb. Sorry it is very dumb to believe this.
And again mercenaries should be at bottom of the priorities. I have no love for mercs.
Posted by: Comandante | Feb 21 2023 14:54 utc | 88
Posted by: Tom UK | Feb 21 2023 11:14 utc | 21
Is that all you can say lol. Youre spent Tom. Youve nothing anymore. Youve lost AND YOU KNOW IT. Go and seek advice from your #NAFO dipsticks on twitter.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Feb 21 2023 14:59 utc | 89
It was definitely one of Putin’s best speeches
It had nothing vitriolic or hyperbolic in it.
I agree with those saying that it was largely addressed to the independent nations of the world, and not just to a Russian or European audience. He goes out of his way to mention respect for Kazakhstan, for example.
I think he is rallying the independent nations of the world to side with peace negotiations, trying to seem less crazy than the global north. Biden just went to Kiev, so there’s his counter-pitch
Posted by: GoFast | Feb 21 2023 15:01 utc | 90
@Comandante 88:
If Russia is running so short of munitions that it can't provide the troops who are actually doing the fighting on the ground, then either
1. The whole conflict was not planned and prepared for since 2014, as the Martyanovist cult would have us believe, or
2. It was a colossal mistake to not destroy the Ukranazi coup regime at the latest in March once negotiations had been broken off, contrary to what the Martyanovist cult would have us believe, or
3. It is a colossal mistake now to drag on the war until all munitions are finished, because going by your thesis that is inevitable.
There is no other explanation, except
4. That the munitions exist but are being deliberately withheld for whatever reason.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 15:03 utc | 91
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 14:47 utc | 85
Here it is, fresh off the net today.
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com
You need to see a doctor, a psychologist, and an anger management specialist.
Posted by: KitaySupporter | Feb 21 2023 15:03 utc | 92
I really expected someone to connect the dots by now...
PMC Wagner is short on ammo. They shake the tree at the MoD. You think they'd stop there? Nope. USA snoops on cell phone calls all over the world. PMC Wagner calls Chiba asking to buy ammo. USA catches the call declares Wagner a terrorist Org. Attempting to stop the buy. China likely is doing the deal. USA warns Chiba about lethal Aid... it all makes sense.
Posted by: Darren | Feb 21 2023 15:11 utc | 93
#91
Worst case of platform envy I've seen in a while.
Posted by: Digital Spartacus | Feb 21 2023 15:12 utc | 94
@92
So what is the snivelling obese hypocrite writing apart from pushing his book and "open threads"?
Oh, right, just posting excerpts from Johnson and Berletic.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 15:13 utc | 95
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 14:47 utc | 85
What a childish tantrum! OK, so you don’t agree with Andrei Martyanov, you may well personally dislike him, but to post such a gratuitously vituperative outburst demeans no-one but yourself.
Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 21 2023 15:17 utc | 96
Ammo supply trains may be withheld just for secrecy purposes. They can be pretty revealing when spotted.
Hate to break it to all the old communists/socialists and those with nostalgia for the USSR.
The Russian offensive has fully begun and they are losing, therefore Putin is hedging his genocidal rhetoric. Had there been any battlefield success to speak of, Putin would have hyped that. Putin knows the end is near. China is playing both sides and will not give-up the much larger Western markets for the pitiful Russian and/or "global south" markets. Stick a fork in Russia, they are done.
Putin's bluff got called.
Posted by: Longhorn | Feb 21 2023 15:21 utc | 98
without words
Posted by: Vragtes | Feb 21 2023 10:02 utc | 248
I may have missed it, of course (easily done) but one thing is unclear to my pedestrian brain. The Outlaw Empire wants to weaken Germany by depriving it of Russian oil. So it blows up Nord Stream 2 pipelines with, thanks to Mr Hersh’s analysis, Norway’s active involvement.
The latter stands to benefit hugely as it has significant oil assets and a pipeline to Poland. Germany, Poland and Norway are notionally on the same side i.e. anti-Russia. So why can’t Germany just get Norwegian oil via Poland? Why does Germany need to involuntarily de-industrialise by importing expensive US LNG or marked-up Russian oil via India? Wouldn’t the Outlaw Empire have been prudent to blow up Norwegian oil pipelines too? Or is that coming?
Posted by: rk | Feb 21 2023 10:40 utc | 251
So why can’t Germany just get Norwegian oil via Poland?
Posted by: Vragtes | Feb 21 2023 10:02 utc | 248That is a tiny pipe. And Norway's output isn't scalable by that amount. There is no alternative to the pipe gas from Russia to Germany and others in Europe. They simply have to use much less and pay 4x-10x the price before for what they get. There are problems with oil too, different oils aren't identical, factories have to be modified, each change will cost many billions.
Posted by: ghiwen | Feb 21 2023 15:21 utc | 99
“They intend to turn a local conflict into a phase of global confrontation.”
This excerpt from VVP’s speech is, to me, a reference to Israel’s recent provocations in Iran and in Damascus, and is a clear indication that he will not allow the RF to be drawn into conflicts elsewhere while the existential threat exists to the homeland.
Posted by: Ciaran | Feb 21 2023 15:25 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO-e_04qag0
Putin's speech live.
Nothing new so far.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 21 2023 9:25 utc | 1