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February 19, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-41
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Is anyone other than myself interested to learn Russia’s logistics for supplying 20-40 thousand artillery shells per day? Perhaps B or a reader knows how this works. How are the spent casings reused or recycled? Manufacture, transport, and delivery to the front. Seems overwhelmingly difficult. Thanks Posted by: Joe | Feb 19 2023 13:38 utc | 1 https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/all-seeing-eye-can-russia-break-through Posted by: jpc | Feb 19 2023 13:44 utc | 2 So the collective West continues in its madness and its delusions. As far as I can see, the Munich Security Conference was really rather inconsequential. Blinken doing his usual blah blah blah about the USA fears that China will help Russia by providing heavy weapons. Well, Blinky, so what? The collective West is Arming Ukraine to the hilt. Quid pro quo. The clown brutal Nazi Dictator stating the security of Europe depends on Ukraine wining this. Stoltenberg’s Gee, the only way to peace is by providing more weapons. So it goes on and on and on. Same old tropes and bullshit. But, Macron’s speech was interesting regarding that there will be no regime change in Russia. Better, the comments he gave during an interview with a French Newspaper about NATO having been unable to explain to Russia their aims and intentions so Russia has interpreted their conduct as encroachment on Russia’ security. I wonder, is Macron starting to bail out of this? In the meantime, Russia continues to stick to task and focus whilst this shitstorm blows around them. Posted by: Jo Dominich | Feb 19 2023 13:44 utc | 3 the former “nightvision” predicts the real war starts next week from multiple fronts: Posted by: hans23 | Feb 19 2023 13:49 utc | 4 Blinken doing his usual blah blah blah about the USA fears that China will help Russia by providing heavy weapons. Posted by: too scents | Feb 19 2023 14:02 utc | 5 @ Jo Dominich 3 Posted by: Giyane | Feb 19 2023 14:27 utc | 6 @hans23 | Feb 19 2023 13:49 utc | 4 Posted by: Acco Hengst | Feb 19 2023 14:29 utc | 7 Borrel: “This shortage of ammunition has to be solved quickly; it is a matter of weeks.” He said if it was not the war would be over. Posted by: Arioch | Feb 19 2023 14:32 utc | 8 Posted by: hans23 | Feb 19 2023 13:49 utc | 4 Posted by: Down South | Feb 19 2023 14:37 utc | 10 > Macron’s speech was interesting regarding that there will be no regime change in Russia. Posted by: natokraine | Feb 19 2023 14:41 utc | 11 Simplicity’s even gets the thumb up from Larry Johnson
https://sonar21.com/complex-comprehensive-analysis-from-simplicius76/ Posted by: Down South | Feb 19 2023 14:47 utc | 12 Thank you b for your analysis and hosting of this fine place. Posters here continue to offer sites and insights for better understanding. This is my favorite bar, by far. Posted by: Granite | Feb 19 2023 14:49 utc | 13 Weeb Union uploaded a new video a few hours ago – “Bakhmut Endgame, 3.8 km from complete encirclement.” After taking Pereskovivka Russian forces advanced across the road to the north of Yahidne and now surround the northern suburbs of Bakhmut on 3 sides. If the Russians can capture Yahidne they can advance along the high ground toward the last remaining road that supplies Bakhmut, about 4 km distant. A quick advance could entrap the remaining AFU forces in Bakhmut. Posted by: Mike R | Feb 19 2023 15:06 utc | 14 From Sputnik: https://sputniknews.com/20230219/china-warns-us-not-to-add-fuel-to-fire-of-ukraine-conflict–1107595289.html
Blinken really should read Larchmonter’s Double Helix treatise… Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 19 2023 15:10 utc | 15 @hans23 oh that’s night vision? I thought he was big serge. Both great writers either way Posted by: Geansai | Feb 19 2023 15:11 utc | 16 I listened / read Macron’s speech and was perplexed. Obviously he needs to take care with his comments but for the life of me I could not understand where he was coming from. Posted by: marcjf | Feb 19 2023 15:13 utc | 17 Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 19 2023 15:10 utc | 15 Posted by: morongobill | Feb 19 2023 15:16 utc | 18 Jo Dominich no. 3 Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Feb 19 2023 15:25 utc | 19 Posted by: morongobill | Feb 19 2023 15:16 utc | 18 Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 19 2023 15:28 utc | 20 The pity we all feel for Russia is deep and sorrowful. Was Russia taunted and drawn in? Certainly. Did they go in the wrong way at the wrong time with the wrong strategies? Terribly so. Russia has taken it on the chin for a hundred years. Clearly intentional. All I see in the writhing and dead bodies are mother’s sons. Breaks my heart. At this point Putin has to go. Russia has to leave Crimea and Donbass. Sorry, just has to happen. Russia can keep the base in Sevastopol (fwiw) if they leave the occupied territories in orderly fashion. Looks like half the RF is gonna walk too. Not much to do about it. And China’s move? Will it be to help Putin, or take the gas fields of the East? (Oh, it will be a transaction, not a war). Do not be ashamed for loving Putin, and being wrong to do so, humans get swayed by all kinds of unfortunate ideas. It happens to everyone. Now, let go, free yourself of this doddering failure. Russia has one decision maker and hundreds of advisors. The U.S. empire has 700,000 analysts and thousands of decision makers, and a show leader to read scripts. Much more insidious game theorists terrain. Now, forget the silly primitive past, empire and industry fade as nano science revolutionizes production and energy and medicine. No more farming, factories, soon, no more hospitals. My advice, forget geopolitics, give it to the NWO and secure some private space for you and yours. It is gonna be crazy. Free Tibet, death to the evil and shameful PRC! Free Russia and the world. Russia can still join the West against the PRC and let human freedom ring (as we also end fascist thinking and ways pervasive globally – expedited by the new technologic realities. Because with these new tech, we do not want crazy authoritarians, no sireebob. Free your mind and your ass will follow, the Kingdom of Heavan is Within! (p-funk) Posted by: Ahole | Feb 19 2023 15:32 utc | 21 Zelensky will soon become a liability to his masters. A heroic death and following splendid funeral and obituaries and eulogies must be in preparations already. Posted by: Ahole | Feb 19 2023 15:32 utc | 21 Posted by: Humbert Humbert | Feb 19 2023 15:38 utc | 23 On the eve of the 11th emergency special session of the UN General Assembly, Kiev continues to prepare for a large-scale provocation in order to accuse Russia of “gross violation” of the obligations of the Convention on Nuclear Safety during the SMO Posted by: rk | Feb 19 2023 15:43 utc | 24 Catalina @22 – you are right, at least as far as I am concerned. Zelensky will be, when the time is right, disappeared as per the Skripals in the UK and killed by the CIA. Of course, Russia will be blamed but we all know the truth. Posted by: Jo Dominich | Feb 19 2023 15:56 utc | 25 A-Hole, Posted by: Wokechoke | Feb 19 2023 16:00 utc | 26 Posted by: rk | Feb 19 2023 15:43 utc | 24 Posted by: unimperator | Feb 19 2023 16:04 utc | 27 @21 accept the unconditional surrender of their culture and territory? Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 19 2023 16:15 utc | 28 Posted by: jpc | Feb 19 2023 13:44 utc | 2 Posted by: Milites | Feb 19 2023 16:17 utc | 29 Posted by: Ahole | Feb 19 2023 15:32 utc | 21
Do you not think this, in itself, will create its own problems? One of Mr Martyanov’s (many) pet hobby-horses is the sheer lack of actual, real experience of Russia, its history and people, among the many thousands of “advisors”, “consultants”, ”think tank experts” who have their snouts in the trough of government/MIC generosity. Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 19 2023 16:24 utc | 30 Posted by: Ahole | Feb 19 2023 15:32 utc | 21 Posted by: jpc | Feb 19 2023 16:32 utc | 31 The U.S. empire has 700,000 analysts and thousands of decision makers Posted by: Vikichka | Feb 19 2023 16:34 utc | 32 unimperator | Feb 19 2023 16:04 utc | 27 Posted by: rk | Feb 19 2023 16:40 utc | 33 West of England Andy@30 Posted by: bevin | Feb 19 2023 16:44 utc | 34 LoL it doesnt matter if US has 700,000 analysts or 7 MILLION analysts. Posted by: Comandante | Feb 19 2023 16:45 utc | 35 Posted by: Vikichka | Feb 19 2023 16:34 utc | 32
Yes indeed, thanks for that. Your estimate might even be on the low side! Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 19 2023 16:47 utc | 36 Posted by: bevin | Feb 19 2023 16:44 utc | 34 Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 19 2023 16:59 utc | 37 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f6EEp01qNrY Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Feb 19 2023 17:01 utc | 38 Posted by: bevin | Feb 19 2023 16:44 utc | 34 Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 19 2023 17:05 utc | 39 Ex -White House doc says there is a cover-up:
No, no, and no. “I will soon announce my campaign for re-election in 2026.” Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 19 2023 17:13 utc | 40 Feb 19 2023 13:38 utc | 1 Posted by: paddy | Feb 19 2023 17:15 utc | 41 Ukraine is exhausted. And depleted, depopulated. Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 19 2023 17:16 utc | 42 Posted by: marcjf | Feb 19 2023 15:13 utc | 17 Posted by: Golddiggr | Feb 19 2023 17:18 utc | 43 While Kiev might be fucked, the reality is that Russian Armed Forces fuckin’ suck. THOSE TROOPS WOULDN’T EVEN ENGAGE IN WHAT LOOKS LIKE BASIC – Like, week one bootcamp training. Why would they be huddled together ? Why would they take cover bunched up and completely in the open ? Why would they be not engaging in the most basic small unit tactics ? Posted by: Vampire Kissinger | Feb 19 2023 17:25 utc | 44 West of England Andy@30 Posted by: JB | Feb 19 2023 17:25 utc | 45 The complains from PMC Wagner about Russian Armed Forces being too slow to move behind have been growing over the last few months. Not saying that everything these guys are saying would be wrong but Yevgeny Prigozhin would have decided that he would know better how to fight this war than Valery Gerasimov and is forgetting that he is there at all because he would be allowed to, seeing how private military companies are illegal in Russia and his duty is protecting Moscow, not using this war as an advertisement for his private military company. Posted by: Jazz Rev | Feb 19 2023 17:30 utc | 46 A singing lesson in a normal Ukrainain school, with subtitles. Posted by: Arioch | Feb 19 2023 17:36 utc | 47 Illusion number one is that Ukraine exists. Next is that it is a nation. Then that this nation has a language.. Posted by: Vikichka | Feb 19 2023 17:37 utc | 48 TsZ @ 38 Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 19 2023 17:41 utc | 49 Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 19 2023 17:41 utc | 49 Posted by: chunga | Feb 19 2023 17:51 utc | 50 Hans23 @4 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 19 2023 17:52 utc | 51 Jazz Rev | Feb 19 2023 17:30 utc | 46 West of England Andy | Feb 19 2023 15:28 utc Posted by: Sarlat La Canède | Feb 19 2023 18:10 utc | 53
In a healthy and functional society that would be parody or sarcasm. Batshit fucking crazy, so gleefully hateful. And to my untrained ears, the tune sounds very Russian. Apologies to any Russians for the offensive quote. Posted by: Rae | Feb 19 2023 18:11 utc | 54 Mike R @14 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 19 2023 18:18 utc | 55 Experienced units of the AFU are gathering in Transnistria. Especially active since the New Year. Conducted exercises and coordination, ready to start at any moment. The only thing is that they are afraid that the arsenal is mined and it will be blown up at the same time. Then buildings even in Chisinau will fall apart, like in Turkey. According to our estimates – tens of thousands of them. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 19 2023 18:31 utc | 56 ” PMC Wagner is different – Its actual experienced units seem to be very competent and this is what is heard from listening to interviews with volunteers on the front line but Russian Armed Forces honestly seem like a joke at this point – Like, building this entire offensive up and falling flat within two days. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 19 2023 18:42 utc | 57 ” In a healthy and functional society that would be parody or sarcasm. Batshit fucking crazy, so gleefully hateful. And to my untrained ears, the tune sounds very Russian. Apologies to any Russians for the offensive quote. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 19 2023 18:43 utc | 58 Sitrep report from Russian News channel Vesti on the situation near Ugledar https://www.vesti.ru/article/3211711 Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Feb 19 2023 18:44 utc | 59 Old hippie no. 49 Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Feb 19 2023 18:49 utc | 60 From Simplicius76 is this vital essay, “All Seeing Eye: Can Russia Break Through The West’s ISR Overmatch?”, that explains a great deal as to why the offensive began with a FEBA-wide overall push forward. Back during the battle for Mariupol, I wrote that there’s no longer anywhere to hide due to technological advances, and that’s what his essay is all about. Too few here have understood that vital aspect of the combat being waged. Outraged was quite correct to focus on the artillery war and the need for Russia to eliminate as many Ukie barrels as possible before any major push in one sector can begin. Yes, it’s a long essay, but there’s simply no substitute for reading it.
Posted by: Golddiggr | Feb 19 2023 17:18 utc | 43 Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 19 2023 19:04 utc | 62
Like any government bureaucracy, the RF DoD military is heavily rules based, expensive, slow to act/change and full of family “connected” people who are looking for a fairly safe sinecure and pension. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 19 2023 19:17 utc | 63 Posted by: Ahole | Feb 19 2023 15:32 utc | 21 Posted by: FoxThoughts | Feb 19 2023 19:31 utc | 65 https://oalexanderdk.substack.com/p/blowing-holes-in-seymour-hershs-pipe Posted by: Stumpy | Feb 19 2023 19:37 utc | 66 marcjf wrote: Posted by: Nanabozho | Feb 19 2023 19:43 utc | 67 ” Like any government bureaucracy, the RF DoD military is heavily rules based, expensive, slow to act/change and full of family “connected” people who are looking for a fairly safe sinecure and pension. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 19 2023 19:51 utc | 68 The West is now on the brink of becoming dangerously insane. Posted by: Drinky Crow | Feb 19 2023 19:53 utc | 69 Andy. Posted by: Golddiggr | Feb 19 2023 19:56 utc | 70 @ Vikichka #32 Posted by: Ahole | Feb 19 2023 20:23 utc | 71 Yes, it’s a long essay, but there’s simply no substitute for reading it. Posted by: Aleph_Null | Feb 19 2023 20:25 utc | 72 Anti-war demonstration in Munich yesterday. At least 50,000 rallied to demand peace during the Security Conference. Posted by: OttoE | Feb 19 2023 20:44 utc | 73 Posted by: hans23 | Feb 19 2023 13:49 utc | 4 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 19 2023 21:03 utc | 74 Fifty thousand people wouldn’t even be 1% of Germany’s population, Ottoe. Posted by: Haëlys | Feb 19 2023 21:13 utc | 75 Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Feb 19 2023 18:44 utc | 60 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 19 2023 21:21 utc | 76 Aleph_Null @74– Posted by: Jazz Rev | Feb 19 2023 17:30 utc | 46 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 19 2023 21:35 utc | 78 If you look at the composition of Russian forces…they are heavily mechanized….even airborne forces…so fighting in urban terrain is allocated to light infantry units and here is where the Wagner PMC and Chechen Spetsnaz come into play….with para airborne units also but for whatever reason…. operational security precludes much coverage of Russian troops. The Russian infantry… airborne and marines are very well turned out…their individual protection and fighting order is as good as the NATO Uber expensive reddit army posting all over social media and they are also loaded for bear…. bare in mind any information coming from the West is false and any official Russian information is supporting Russian strategic interests….their information vetted and redacted… usually released weeks and months after the action involved unless gleamed from Ukraineian sources from open sources and supporting their needs. Basically I’m saying we all actually have no idea what’s going on for sure but speculation and individual sleuthing seems popular….that said I think the build up in south is continuing from Ukrainian open sources Posted by: Joe | Feb 19 2023 21:36 utc | 79 To Haelys at 77: Posted by: C | Feb 19 2023 21:39 utc | 80 It seems to me people around here might be in for a letdown over the next couple of weeks. I figure there is a non-trivial chance that: Posted by: Mike314159 | Feb 19 2023 21:42 utc | 81 Emmanuel Macron is an idiot. He failed to gain entry to ENS Paris, twice. Posted by: Krot | Feb 19 2023 21:47 utc | 82 Aleksander Kots is a journalist of Komsomolskaya Pravda. He has been into Bakhmut with the Wagner ‘musicians’. His writing style is impressionistic. Important info: “The ratio of losses is 1 ours to 7 of the enemy.” https://www.kp.ru/daily/27467/4723196/ Posted by: Oblomovka daydream | Feb 19 2023 21:50 utc | 83 Posted by: Ahole | Feb 19 2023 15:32 utc | 21 Posted by: kupkee | Feb 19 2023 21:54 utc | 84 Mike314159 @83– “London is ready to be the first to supply Ukraine with long-range weapons,” – Prime Minister of Great Britain Posted by: jpc | Feb 19 2023 21:59 utc | 86 To Haelys at 77: Posted by: shaka | Feb 19 2023 22:05 utc | 87 Posted by: shaka | Feb 19 2023 22:05 utc | 89 Posted by: unimperator | Feb 19 2023 22:26 utc | 88
This is realistic. EU citizens, unfortunately deeply support and want war against Russia. Posted by: savax | Feb 19 2023 22:35 utc | 89 Sunday show time, and Blinken’s telling us what he knows today about what China is contemplating providing to Russia. Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 19 2023 22:48 utc | 90 Posted by: bevin | Feb 19 2023 16:44 utc | 34 Posted by: Blissex | Feb 19 2023 23:02 utc | 91 And the perpetrators of this monstrous carnage of the inocent go unscathed ! Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 19 2023 23:04 utc | 92 Blinken says China is ‘contemplating’ sending lethal aid to Russia. He doesn’t say what form the lethal aid will take. So we are left to speculate. Russia seems to have plenty of it’s own lethal stuff so what could China offer? And what will Blinken do if China sends a few artillery shells (for training purposes)? Posted by: dh | Feb 19 2023 23:13 utc | 93 Macron has been weak, but deserves at least some credit for not simply rolling over and begging to have his tummy rubbed by Nuland, unlike most of the corrupt, craven and cretinous western “leaders”. Posted by: Tim | Feb 19 2023 23:22 utc | 94 Posted by: OttoE | Feb 19 2023 20:44 utc | 75
Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 20 2023 0:11 utc | 98 Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 20 2023 0:29 utc | 97 Accordingly the USA strategists seem to have chosen the latter option. Regime-change in the RF, over the next 10-15 years, is what they decided is most beneficial for the USA plans to “contain” the PRC. Posted by: Lex | Feb 20 2023 0:32 utc | 98 Politico Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 20 2023 0:46 utc | 99 |
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