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February 12, 2023

Ukraine Open Thread 2023-38

Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on February 12, 2023 at 15:26 UTC | Permalink

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The US govt. looks very erratic and unstable. Lot of things are going wrong. Dystopia Pandemic is coming unraveled. Project Ukraine is backfiring. Europeans wondering what happened to their gas pipes. "Debt Ceiling" on deck. Balloons flying around. Don't be surprised to see some sort of "false flag" episode...maybe blowing up it's own pipelines.

Posted by: chunga | Feb 12 2023 15:34 utc | 1


Most in the West have not experienced the horrors of war. Only a few (relative to their populations) alive today have fought in any real war or even in a battle.

Yet, today those who never experienced war or even where in a military for a few years are running the political show. They go about with impunity thinking they command the new direction for their countries and their people. They walk about with disgusting pride. Yet, they have no moral fiber or fear of God or any real concern for their peoples.

I fully recognize where the war in Ukraine is heading. It is heading towards devastating war within the USA and most NATO nations.

When I was a young lad, many of the older generations would have quickly agreed with me. Actually, they would have been telling me that is where the current escalation was heading. I was born 7 years after WWII ended.

Many of the older generations had experienced the horrors of WWI and WWII. Now 77 years have passed since WWII ended. And that generation is pretty much gone. Unfortunately, their word of reason and caution has pretty much been thrown to the wayside.

They will soon see themselves in the war trap. Hopefully, some of them will wake up and repent of their evil ways before it is too late for their future eternity.

The words of Jesus are pretty much rejected today when he said "blessed are the peacemakers". Those who have not experienced war have no idea how important those words are about to be for them and for the world that is about to plunge into very dark war times.

Posted by: young | Feb 12 2023 15:51 utc | 2

Seems somethings up, like dogs barking before earthquakes, the inter-web is being subjected to a sustained barrage of mis/dis and mal-information about the SMO. Worse, like user-dealers, the perpetrators need to consume and peddle ever greater fictions to satisfy their cravings. The ‘disaster at Ugledar’ is not enough, so now 1,140 Russians were killed and 61 AFV’s were knocked out in frontal attacks against Avdivka. So, given the escalation, battalion to regiment, perhaps in a few days a divisional size loss in (sound of dice rattling) on the Kharkov front is going to be reported.

Such ludicrously inflated claims fit a historic pattern between the inverse relationship of an organisation’s level of propaganda and it’s chances of surviving the cause of said disinformation. No doubt, the Zelensky regime and it’s Western handlers have already written the breathless accounts of it’s out-numbered forces dealing devastating blows to the hapless invaders, but, as in 44-45 the outcome of the endgame is not it doubt.

Posted by: Milites | Feb 12 2023 15:53 utc | 3

AZ 🛰🌏🌍🌎
@AZgeopolitics
🇺🇦🪖Employees of military enlistment offices have launched the mobilization process now in ski resorts.

"I thought it was a joke on the mountains. They actually issue subpoenas," the author of the video claims.

Now they will go to fight for "freedom and democracy"


https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1624697876591915008

Posted by: Down South | Feb 12 2023 15:58 utc | 4

This past week may prove to be a historic turning point with regard to U.S. involvement in the Russo-Ukranian war; the stories about scuttled peace negotiations and the Biden administration bombing Nordstream are synchronizing with growing interest in the February 19th protest in D.C. Don't expect popular opinion to shift much in the short-term, but rather look for a sudden decline in elite consensus about support for the war and a sudden collapse on the prohibition on speaking out against the war. The line that being anti-war is being pro-Putin is culturally untenable in the current news environment.

We’re now in a phase where the elites will have to retrench by focusing on disrupting anti-war organization. Scott Ritter being forced to pull out of the upcoming anti-war rally is the first strike on that front. Keep your eyes peeled for something awful to go wrong at the D.C. protest, coz that’s the gnomish Men In Black at work, spreading chaos and calumny.

Posted by: GoFast | Feb 12 2023 16:06 utc | 5

This is from Hal Turner, so take with salt if desired:

Reports coming from inside the Ukraine ministry of Defense claim President Volodomyr Zelensky was summonsed to serve in the Ukraine Military, four times in 2014 and 2015, but never reported as ordered.

Today, he is President of Ukraine, sending tens-of-thousands of soldiers to their deaths against Russia.

From sources inside the Ukraine Ministry of Defense (verbatim):

"We inform that the citizen Zelensky V.A. has been registered in the military Register of conscripts in the Territorial Center for Recruitment and Social Support of the United Metallurgy-Dolgintsev District of Krivoy Rog since 22.12.2008 and to this day, military rank - soldier, military registration specialty - clerk of Records", - noted in the Ministry of Defense.

"For the convocation during the mobilization, summonses were sent to the citizen Zelensky V.A.: 15.04.2014, 23.06.2014, 15.08.2014, 10.05.2015 to the address indicated in his registration documents. The citizen Zelensky V.A. did not come to the convocation office when he was summoned."

This four-time conscientious objector /or perhaps more appropriately "Draft-Dodger," became the commander-in-chief.

The Effects:

Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valery Zaluzhny secretly informed the United States about the deaths of 257 thousand soldiers of the Ukrainian army.

From my former colleagues in the Intel Community: “When Zaluzhny was in the US, he met with Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin and General Milley. He secretly told them that Ukraine had lost 257,000 military troops since the beginning of the conflict."

Reports from inside Ukraine as of Sunday, 5 February 2023, indicate UKRAINIAN CONSCRIPTION AGE LOWERED TO 16

Of course, it could always be a case of mistaken identity, maybe another Zelensky V A didn’t answer his call-up summons and the presidential hero is entirely innocent...

https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/world/report-zelensky-dodged-the-draft-four-times-in-2014-2015/

Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 12 2023 16:06 utc | 6

Young @ 2
Tell that to the pope.
The religious groups are just 'holier than thou'
Looking down at the rest of us as inferior sinners.
When did religious people stop a war or speak out against warmongering politicians. I am not hearing a word from them about the atrocities being carried out by zelinsky in Ukraine.
Why ?

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 12 2023 16:07 utc | 7

Ukraine has now lost more than 308,000 servicemen including members of NATO countries like Germany, France and Poland. The cost of war in Ukraine has reached a milestone of more than 1.272 trillion uSSa dollars

Posted by: AI | Feb 12 2023 16:09 utc | 8

@young #2

are you going to post that comment on every story on this site??

you are literally copying and pasting to each story as it comes out

that is called SPAM, and you need to go pray to your invisible sky daddy and ask him to help you stop!!

Posted by: Oldcutlas | Feb 12 2023 16:12 utc | 9

The law of unintended consequences for the west. crazily apposite video.

https://twitter.com/PeImeniPusha/status/1624459551574732805

Posted by: Andy | Feb 12 2023 16:20 utc | 10

@AI | Feb 12 2023 16:09 utc | 8

And the source of that is where?

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 16:20 utc | 11

@West of England Andy | Feb 12 2023 16:06 utc | 6
re: ""We inform that the citizen Zelensky V.A. has been registered in the military Register of conscripts. . . The citizen Zelensky V.A. did not come to the convocation office when he was summoned."

Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelenskyy is Zelenskyy V.O.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 12 2023 16:25 utc | 12

If there is an order from the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, we are ready to go to America at least [..]. And any such order is not discussed, but executed. There are all the necessary forces, means and equipment to implement it.

Ramzan Kadyrov

Posted by: Zebra | Feb 12 2023 16:31 utc | 13

Gas pipeline was sabotged bh english pirates. Hersh talk is about diverting blame from real criminl entity england which Russia must a annihilate with massive attack now.
That is the only way for humanity to survive -by killing english parasites.
What it looks like to me is the england and its US vassal has some specific goal in mind (it is not limited to foreign policy but also they do this inside the US against American citizens which by the way, is illegal), then they set about constructing a narrative. They find some paid shills (Zenz, Steele, whomever) and then push it to the media who broadcast it. There are some good YouTube videos showing the exact same language coming from every broadcast in every TV show in englabd and in Usa.. Goebbels would be ecstatic if he could have done this.

Sometimes they try and get creative and attempt to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. The Skripals I believe were ordered killed by the US as he was trying to return to Russia. Steele, coincidentally, was his contact in the UK). So, they made up this fancy story about Novichuk and it just happened the first person on the scene was the Chief Nurse for the UK Army. Wow! What a believable coincidence. It also just happens to be just down the road from Porton Down where the UK Military Chem/Bio facilities are at. Novichuk, by the way, was invented in Ukraine. It also apparently isn't a very good nerve agent as so far it hasn't been very reliable. I am 100% certain the Skripals are in a deep grave somewhere in the UK.
Disgusting thing in british justice is that a case of murder was alleged with no dead or alive body to be seen and no relative to be allowed to meet the alleged victim Scripal. Evil english public never questioned the fraud because satanic english live off such plots to cheat and steal from other nations. All wars in europe is consequence of satan england's plots.

Posted by: sam | Feb 12 2023 16:31 utc | 14

The words of Jesus are pretty much rejected today when he said "blessed are the peacemakers". Those who have not experienced war have no idea how important those words are about to be for them and for the world that is about to plunge into very dark war times.

Posted by: young | Feb 12 2023 15:51

Arrogance and hubris are the defining characteristics of the current ruling elite.
They know shit about consequences.
Iraq,Afghanistan, Libya ,Syria thought them nothing.
That's about to change.

Posted by: jpc | Feb 12 2023 16:32 utc | 15

The USA brazenly opens up about an act of war against Russia.

"In fact, US officials admit that the explosions that occurred on Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2 are their work. Now they even talk about it with pleasure,"

https://ria.ru/20230212/lavrov-1851524002.html

Not so much Norway who detonated the Nordstream bombs flying over them in a P8 aircraft, Norway has many energy pipelines I expect to see some of them suffer a similar fate in the not to distant future

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 12 2023 16:34 utc | 16

It looks like the desperate Ukrainian Neo-Nazi forces are using chemical weapons in the Donbas.


"The number of reports from different areas of the Donbass front about the use of chemical weapons by the Ukrainian side has increased, Acting Head of the DPR Denis Pushilin said.

"There has been an increase in the number of reports from commanders in the Ugledar, Artyomovsk and Mayorsk directions about the use of chemical weapons by the enemy," the acting head said in an interview with the Rossiya-24 TV channel. "The facts of the use of this type of ammunition, dropped from drones on our positions, have been recorded. This is a systemic phenomenon, not isolated cases," Pushilin added.

According to him, as a result of the chemical substances used by the Ukrainian military, people suffered from mucous membrane irritation, coughing and general malaise.

The acting DPR head noted that there were no cases of deaths from these substances. "There are no fatal cases so far, but there is certain discomfort," Pushilin said."


https://tass.com/politics/1575065

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 12 2023 16:38 utc | 17

The den of thieves gets together to talk about how to give more weapons to the Neo-Nazi's forces in Ukraine.

"Ukraine and US military chiefs have discussed the latest developments in the West’s war against Russia and weapons "priorities" for Kiev ahead of the next western allies' meeting in Brussels.

The Pentagon chief Lloyd Austin and Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov discussed the importance of delivering new lethal weapons, including air system and artillery, as quickly as possible, the Pentagon's chief spokesperson, Brigadier General Patrick Ryder, said in a statement.

After securing a promise of scores of modern battle tanks from the US, the UK, and Germany, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has been urging allies to send fighter aircraft. The request has been refused till now.

The Ukraine Defense Contact Group is set to meet on Tuesday at the NATO headquarters following a Jan. 20 conference at the Ramstein Air Base in Germany that was key for the decisions to send battle tanks to Kiev.

The group has already provided huge shipments of weapons and munitions to the Kiev forces fighting Russia."

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 12 2023 16:41 utc | 18

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 12 2023 16:34 utc | 16

On the basis of Stoltenberg and his frankly bizarre responses throughout the crisis.
And now the revelations (to be confirmed) about their complicity in the NS2 destruction.
My regard for the ability and pragmatic
nature of the Norwegians us disappearing.
No disrespect to Old Norwegian who's one of the stalwarts here.

Posted by: jpc | Feb 12 2023 16:43 utc | 19

A few days ago some of us found the timing of alleged missile incursions and Government resignations in Moldova somewhat suspicious:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/02/ukraine-open-thread-2023-34.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef02b751703b59200b#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef02b751703b59200b

John Helmer today elegantly ties those events together, in the context of the Zatoka Bridge destruction and planned weapons shipments from Romania (or likely lack thereof):

http://johnhelmer.net/zatoka-strike-hits-french-tank-plan-for-ukraine-topples-moldova-prime-minister-british-ukrainian-plan-for-nord-stream-attack-revealed/

Posted by: Et Tu | Feb 12 2023 16:43 utc | 20

newsweek
Republican Senator Mike Lee of Utah posted on Twitter on Wednesday afternoon that if the allegations are true, he and many of his colleagues were unaware of the plan.
"I'm troubled that I can't immediately rule out the suggestion that the U.S. blew up Nord Stream," Lee tweeted. "I checked with a bunch of Senate colleagues. Among those I've asked, none were ever briefed on this. If it turns out to be true, we've got a huge problem." . .here and here.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 12 2023 16:45 utc | 21

@chunga | Feb 12 2023 15:34 utc | 1

Don't be surprised to see some sort of "false flag" episode...
Such false flags tend to serve multiple purposes, the people behind them are "smart". I was just thinking something that eliminated Zelensky and the blame put on Russia. Also, Biden may be in the way for some.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 16:47 utc | 22

@jpc | Feb 12 2023 16:43 utc | 19

Let us first figure out what actually happened before we conclude. I don't discount the Hersh story, and I certainly do not excuse the quislings in my country, but the allegations are so serious that we better get it right.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 17:02 utc | 23

Don Bacon @ 12

Before terminal Ukrainization the middle name would have been Alexandrovich. The initials are correct

Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 12 2023 17:08 utc | 24

sam | Feb 12 2023 16:31 utc | 14 new evidence that Hersh is RIGHT

In this article, Anti-Spiegel claimed 3 days ago that John Marc Dugan, an American journalist living in Moscow, received in early October an email from a whistleblower who participated in the maneuver BALTOPS 22. As there was no possibility to verify his claims, the information (and its existence) remained unpublished. Now that Hersh's article is on the table, Anti-Spiegel compares the claims made in the email with Hersh's facts. They square. Additional details on how the loads were planted, when and by whom (June 15, divers with no military signatures guided by helicoptered-onto-the ship civilians) are mentioned as well. - Take it with a grain of salt. Verification / proof remains impossible IMO. Plausibility is strong, however.

Posted by: OttoE | Feb 12 2023 17:10 utc | 25

@ Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 17:02 utc | 23
re: I certainly do not excuse the quislings in my country
..sorry, but since you brought it up. . .
That's of course Vidkun Quisling, Former Minister of Defence of Norway

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 12 2023 17:12 utc | 26

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 17:02 utc | 23
Absolutely.
Big claims need big proofs.
The question is why the Norwegians are getting dragged into the middle of the situation?

Posted by: jpc | Feb 12 2023 17:13 utc | 27

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 12 2023 16:34 utc | 16

.. Norway has many energy pipelines I expect to see some of them suffer a similar fate in the not to distant future

Perpetrated by Norway's 'allies' I presume you to mean?

(I think we've established with much evidence that Russia is not much given to destroying core infrastructure without much provocation)

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 12 2023 17:13 utc | 28

[email protected] Russia wanted Zman dead he'd be dead. Even if you play dead, the Bear will still maul and chew on one's head.

So haggered poor Z
No time for clean Tee
Life of Jest
Roadkill, at best.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 12 2023 17:13 utc | 29

@oldhippie | Feb 12 2023 17:08 utc | 24
thank you . . .and that's what I deserve by blogging with people smarter than me

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 12 2023 17:14 utc | 30

@3 there may be something to this. Even after vuhledar debacle Russia expanded positions on the other side.

Rumors about kupyansk falling are getting stronger and bahkmut is down to 10000 defenders.

Seviersk is under pressure and live ua is getting surly about handing out capture flags for russia

The isw is also reporting confusion and russian advances to kupyansk which is key to lyman

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 12 2023 17:15 utc | 31

@Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 17:02 utc | 23
My link in 17:10 utc | 25 does not mention Norwegians. According to this whistleblower piece from Moscow, the perpetrators came directly from the US.

Posted by: OttoE | Feb 12 2023 17:21 utc | 32

Also ukraine blew a bridge from chasiv yar to bahkmut which says they're actively abandoning it now, likely they want to fight from chasiv for now.

I expect a lot of Ukrainians sneaking through the country roads at night, like when they left lysichansk. Probably been filtering out for a week now.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 12 2023 17:22 utc | 33

@Don Bacon | Feb 12 2023 17:12 utc | 26

That's of course Vidkun Quisling, Former Minister of Defence of Norway
He committed a coup d'etat on radio 9th April 1940 as the German Nazi's attacked Norway. He pronounced himself "Minister President" and ruled under the wings of the German occupation. He was arrested after liberation April 9, 1945, convicted and shot October 1945.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 17:23 utc | 34

To @young | Feb 12 2023 15:51 utc | 2

The words of Jesus are pretty much rejected today when he said "blessed are the peacemakers".

I appreciate your words in this discussion, and I feel that Chris Hedges, a Christian minister, is saying something similar today, asserting that all of us who oppose war and strive for peace must come together.

https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/there-are-no-permanent-allies-only?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=778851&post_id=102473550&isFreemail=false&utm_medium=email

If we do not build left-right coalitions on issues such as militarism, health care, a living wage and union organizing, we will be impotent in the face of corporate power and the war machine.

Posted by: Linda Wood | Feb 12 2023 17:26 utc | 35

DB @ 30

Definitely not smarter. We each bring something different to the bar. I have been very wrong very publicly here a few times. When I am right it is a guess if any noticed. Thank you for the reply.

Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 12 2023 17:29 utc | 36

@jpc | Feb 12 2023 17:13 utc | 27

The question is why the Norwegians are getting dragged into the middle of the situation?
If that is what is going on, and it could be that it is, It seems to me the US is trying everything they can to destroy the relationship between Russia and European countries in general, and Norway in particular in this case. They want to drag us into the US sphere even more than we were.

Let me remind everybody that Norway has no grudge against Russia. Norway has a common border with Russia in the North (Finnmark). The Soviet Red Army liberated East Finnmark in 1944/45 and drove the Nazis out. The Red Army then retreated back to Russia.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 17:30 utc | 37

@sean the leprechaun | Feb 12 2023 17:13 utc | 29

[email protected] Russia wanted Zman dead he'd be dead.

The context was a false flag. It would be the US that eliminated Zelensky, blaming Russia. I don't believe for a second it is in Russias interest do kill Zelensky.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 17:33 utc | 38

@OttoE | Feb 12 2023 17:21 utc | 32

Thank you. That means we have a competing scenario with only US participation. Interesting to say the least.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 17:35 utc | 39

Pakistan has sent Ukraine over 10,000 rockets for Grad MLRS. The Economic Times (ET) of India has reported about it. They will arrive in Ukraine via the German port of Emden with subsequent transit through Poland, relevant sources told the publication. According to them, the shells were shipped from the Pakistani port of Karachi in early February.

Another source, who wished to remain anonymous, pointed out that Pakistan had previously supplied arms to Ukraine, while asking Russia to reduce the price of oil.

According to TK Ukrayina.ru, the publication recalled that Pakistan was the first to report that it had increased shipments of ammunition and other defence equipment through third countries bordering Ukraine. Karachi-based Project Shipping last month facilitated the delivery of 146 containers from Pakistani artillery factories, ET reported.

https://eadaily.com/ru/news/2023/02/12/pakistan-otpravil-ukraine-bolee-10-tysyach-reaktivnyh-snaryadov

Eine Bitte an @ weimar-quellen nennen
Frdl.Grüße

Posted by: Oberbayer | Feb 12 2023 17:41 utc | 40

And the source of that is where?

Pfft, sources. Sources are so 20th century. In the age of the individual, we create our own reality. /s

Posted by: Milton | Feb 12 2023 17:44 utc | 41

If the Norwegians are innocent their prime minister could simply come out and say that they were not in any way implicated in this story. And that the P-8 plane wasn't Norwegian or based in Norway. Until that eventually happens Norway's pipelines should be considered fair game. It was an act of war and hopefully vengeance will come.

Posted by: Zebra | Feb 12 2023 17:49 utc | 42

Pfft, sources. Sources are so 20th century. In the age of the individual, we create our own reality. /s

Posted by: Milton | Feb 12 2023 17:44 utc | 41

This fella said what they're all thinking and it's probably at the heart of the whole neocon/neolib problem:

Karl Rove: "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

Monsters.

Posted by: irish al | Feb 12 2023 17:50 utc | 43

@Zebra | Feb 12 2023 17:49 utc | 42

If the Norwegians are innocent their prime minister could simply come out and say that they were not in any way implicated in this story.
Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre comes from the same party as Jens Stoltenberg, they virtually grew up together in Oslo. Stoltenberg and Støre (image) .

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 17:56 utc | 44

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 17:56 utc | 44

Well, that settles it. Guilty! ;-)

Posted by: Zebra | Feb 12 2023 18:01 utc | 45

🇷🇺🚀🇺🇦According to preliminary data, two out of 20 electric generators remain in working condition in Ukraine.

This assessment was voiced by the executive director of DTEK Dmitry Sakharuk.

"Now there are not enough large expensive pieces of equipment, such as a transformer, generator, turbines," added Sakharuk.

According to him, the production of equipment can take from eight months to two years, so they need to be bought. One such electric generator costs about $10 million, the official concluded.

Earlier, the Financial Times wrote that there are not enough Soviet transformers in Ukraine, especially with a capacity of 750 kV.

This is reported by the Financial Times with reference to the head of the Board of Ukrenergo, Vladimir Kudritsky.

According to him, for the first eight months of the conflict, the country had a large supply of equipment, but now it is "extremely necessary." At the same time, it is noted that Western equipment is incompatible with the Ukrainian power grid, because lower voltage is used in Europe.

Kudritsky also believes that the Russian military strikes at the infrastructure of Ukraine in cooperation with Russian engineers who know it "like the back of their fingers."


https://t.me/azmilitary11/37337

Posted by: Down South | Feb 12 2023 18:15 utc | 46

@Et Tu | Feb 12 2023 16:43 utc | 20

Thanks for that. It's worth listening to the the WotW podcast with Helmer and George Eliason discussing the drone attack on the bridge and the NS2 story linked on that page.

Posted by: the pessimist | Feb 12 2023 18:18 utc | 47

Before terminal Ukrainization the middle name would have been Alexandrovich. The initials are correct

Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 12 2023 17:08 utc | 24

Thank you for that, Don Bacon’s post @12 did have me wondering if I had got it wrong.

On a separate note, Sputnik has posted about a petition in Germany calling for peace. The story is here: https://sputniknews.com/20230212/manifesto-for-peace-over-250000-sign-petition-calling-germany-to-stop-arming-ukraine-1107357541.html

I followed the link provided there and this took me to: https://www.change.org/p/manifest-f%C3%BCr-frieden

Currently showing over 291,000 signatures.

Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 12 2023 18:18 utc | 48

Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre comes from the same party as Jens Stoltenberg, they virtually grew up together in Oslo. Stoltenberg and Støre (image) .
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 17:56 utc | 44


Interesting comment Norwegian.
It's a very murky situation.

Posted by: jpc | Feb 12 2023 18:20 utc | 49

Arch Bungle (28)

Someone on another thread posted a link to an article that showed the Norwegians have beefed up security around energy infrastructures, the Norwegian authorities (in the article) claimed that there had been several dodgy drone sightings buzzing in and around their energy infrastructures.

One it could be Russia

Two it could be a preemptive attempt by the Norwegians to point the finger before something happens, if it happens.

Three it could be as you say an ally (USA) or such hoping that Russia gets the blame for it.


Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 12 2023 18:31 utc | 50

I for one am waiting in anticipation...
Very soon will be exactly one year since the beginning of Russias special military operation.
At the start of which Vladimir Putin clearly stated Russias 3 main aims. We all know what they we're, I won't repeat.
I expect a clear speech reviewing the last year, and stating Russias aims here onward.
I expect that is going to be a massive momment and one we need to pay attention to,Putin dosent lie !
And then the other day he stated when Russia is ready they will give civilians 72 hours to evacuate!
Comments and opinions sort.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 12 2023 18:32 utc | 51

Hi, I'm writing today from a village in the mountains near Mexico City. I am very proud of our president, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, who had refused to join the sanctions attacks on Russia and Belarus. Recent requests for donation of Artillery shells to the Zelenski regime were denied. AMLO said that we don't want to be enemies of Russia.

The USA and their puppets in Europe keep upping the ante. Now they are going to send Abrams tanks and the idiotic Germans set to send Tiger/Leopard tanks also. miniFuhrer Scholz thinks that the Russians would not dare bomb Berlin, since they are part of mighty NATO. Don't they remember that their grandfathers were killed by the hundreds of thousands in the Great Patriotic war and that the Red Army pushed the remnants of the Wehrmacht all the way to Berlin? Check out the Russian tanks that will be hunting and destroying any Western machines that make it to Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyGa0Cnxpqw&t=64s

The deluded Americans still think that they are safe way across the Atlantic. Their ignorant "leaders" choose to ignore the fact that Russia has come out with the Poseidon nuclear-powered underwater drone. They will need a demonstration on some unfortunate US port city to bring them to their senses. These UUV's generate a giant tsunami that destroys the city and the surrounding country. US political and military leaders need to think twice before going through with Abrams deliveries. But, do they ever think?

The brainwashed Americans think that some imaginary Reagan era star-wars missile defense will protect them. Sorry, you all are in some alternate universe. When Mr. Sarmat and Mr. Khinzal come to visit, you will wake up.

Posted by: Nilo Cruz | Feb 12 2023 18:34 utc | 52

@ oldhippie | Feb 12 2023 17:29 utc | 36

You sell yourself far too short old friend. Valued insightful appreciated contributor. Cheers & Salut!

Peace

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 12 2023 18:35 utc | 53

jpc (19).

Yes I don't quite understand why Norway would get itself involved in aiding in an act of war, it has made more than enough from its own energy, or has greed risen its ugly head, possibly that's the answer, whatever the reason I agree Norway has damaged its reputation on the international stage.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 12 2023 18:39 utc | 54

Translated, full MOD Summary/Clobber list (12.02.23):

◽️ On the Kupyan direction, strikes by tactical and army aviation, artillery fire and the actions of assault groups of the Western Group of Forces hit units of the 14th and 92nd mechanized brigades of the AFU in the settlements of Hryanikivka, Dvurechnaya, Pershotravneve, Timkovka, Masutovka and Krakhmalne of Kharkiv Region.

💥 Up to 80 Ukrainian servicemen, six vehicles and one D-20 howitzer were destroyed.

◽️ In the Krasno-Limansky direction, assault and army aviation, artillery and heavy flamethrower systems of the Center Group of Forces hit AFU units in the areas of Torskoye, Yampolovka of the Donetsk People's Republic, Stelmakhovka, Nevske, Chervonopopovka and Chervona Dibrova of the Lugansk People's Republic, as well as the Serebryansk forest area.

💥 Up to 100 Ukrainian servicemen, an infantry fighting vehicle, five armored fighting vehicles and an Acacia self-propelled howitzer were destroyed in this direction during the day.

◽️ In the Donetsk direction as a result of air strikes and artillery fire of the "Southern" group of troops, over 250 Ukrainian servicemen , an infantry fighting vehicle, four vehicles, two US-made M777 artillery systems, a US-made M109 "Paladin" self-propelled howitzer, an Acacia self-propelled howitzer, a Hyacinth towed gun and two Rapira antitank guns were destroyed during the day.

💥 An ammunition depot was also destroyed near the village of Belogorivka in the Luhansk People's Republic.

◽️ On the South Donets direction, operational and tactical aviation and artillery of the Vostok Group of Forces inflicted a complex fire attack on the Ukrainian armed forces units in the areas of Pavlovka and Ugledar of the Donetsk People's Republic.

💥 Over 50 Ukrainian servicemen, one tank, two infantry fighting vehicles and an Msta-B howitzer were lost in this area.

💥 Two ammunition depots of the AFU were destroyed in the areas of Elizavetovka, Donetsk People's Republic, and Druzhelyubovka, Zaporizhzhia region.

◽️ In Kherson direction in the course of counter-battery warfare during the day destroyed: self-propelled howitzer "Gvozdika", self-propelled howitzer "Acacia" and near the settlement of Kuybyshevo, Kherson region counter-battery radar station AN/TPQ-50 produced by the USA.

💥 Operational-tactical and army aviation, missile troops and artillery of groups of troops (forces) of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation during the day struck 78 artillery units of the AFU in firing positions, manpower and military equipment in 119 areas.

💥 A Ukrainian Osa-AKM anti-aircraft missile system was destroyed near Krasny Liman settlement in Donetsk People's Republic.

💥 As a result of a high-precision missile strike by the Russian Air Force in Kharkiv, the assembly shops of AFU armored vehicles in the territory of the Malyshev Machine Building Plant were hit.

💥 The air defense forces destroyed 17 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles during the day in the areas of Fomovka, Vladimirovka, Poltava, Golikovo Pshenichne, Kolomiychikha, Nizhnyaya Duvanka, Lisichansk of the Lugansk People's Republic, Oktyabrskoye, Nikolskoye, Terny, Blagoveschenka of the Donetsk People's Republic, Rabotino, Priyutne and Polohy of the Zaporozhye region overnight.

💥 In addition, 12 HIMARS, Olha and Uragan MBRLS rockets were shot down.

📊 In total, since the beginning of the special military operation destroyed ((+?) over preceding 24hrs):
384 aircraft, (Daily avg 1.1)
207 helicopters, (Daily avg 0.6)
3,105(+17) unmanned aerial vehicles, (Daily avg 8.8)
404(+1) surface-to-air missile systems, (Daily avg 1.2)
7,840(+14) tanks and other armored combat vehicles, (Daily avg 22.5)
1,015 multiple rocket launchers, (Daily avg 2.9)
4,073(+12) field artillery and mortars, (Daily avg 11.6) and
8,350(+24) special military vehicles. (Daily avg 24)

Comment:

Return to brief, terse MOD Summary (Translated/Quoted in full).

Yesterday claimed logistical transfer of reserves, arms & ammunition blocked rear of FEBA. If valid, indicator of probable near term exploitation of developing situ re crippled logistics/shortages(Ammunition) via increased/expanded offensive operations/tempo. Note: Therefore RF can repeat or sustain such severance at will, or at critical juncture/s of its choosing re major Theater Ops.

Sustained rear of FEBA Ammo depots/logistical stores & support destruction. Sustained ongoing preparation & shaping of the battlefield.

Multiple double envelopments threatening AFU.

Sustained Op tempo targeting 119 locales, characterized by,

RuAF heavier aircraft along with Close Air Support(CAS), as well as Army tactical aviation in combination with rocket/artillery barrages & heavy flamethrower systems sustained application of massed combined destructive ranged firepower, in not one locale, but along the FEBA on four fronts.

The AFU has no defense against(No near FEBA AD) nor effective counter-response to the above at & rear of the FEBA.

Significant sustained 'immediate' ongoing elevated AFU attrition (Particularly manpower losses) on four fronts, whilst further significantly degrading/partially severing AFU already fragile & insufficient logistics train & supplies, given eleven forward Ammo/artillery dumps destroyed in only 24 hours(Qty 11 & 6 & 10 previous 72hrs)(Part of ongoing priority tasking).

Reported over ~400 AFU KIA casualties incurred in only specific mentioned engagements/locales. Only partial & incomplete re entire FEBA over last 24hrs. Actual total AFU casualties incurred over reported period(prior 24hrs), KIA/WIA/MIA/POW ? More than, minimally/incomplete, ~1600+.

Note: Corroborated reports of increasingly inability of AFU to effectively/timely supply even minimally sufficient critical basic ammunition stocks to brigade formations engaged in combat.

Reported separately, yesterday, the AFU 30th Brigade in Bakhmut abandoned its positions(ie Broke) due to no ammunition for even merely its AK small arms. Essentially zero means to fight given failed/critical shortages re logistical train/supplies. Additionally the 10th Ogsh Brigade, reported combat incapable, also due to insufficient ammunition for even AK small arms.

Critical corroborated shortages of crew-served weapon systems/platforms (Armor/Arty/AD/Vehs), manpower, let alone trained/experienced manpower/formations, as well as inability to supply even basic ammunition loads to 'in combat' Brigades, confirms the AFU as an organized/functional combat capable force is approaching imminent collapse in the very near to near term. Months at best.

Cumulative effects of above over last 11+ months are irrecoverable whilst at war.

In Theater Strategic & Operational Dominance & Initiative, Ground & Air is exclusively retained by RF, along with ability to massively promptly escalate scale & scope of Operations & promptly increase in theater engaged forces at will, ie ~120,000-150,000 uncommitted forward deployed reserves, ~85% of uncommitted Regular forces on alert. RF is operating on secure, short internal, multiple redundant logistical supply/support trains.

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 12 2023 18:41 utc | 55

In Paraskoveyevka, for which Russian assault groups are now fighting, there are the famous Soledar armories, which are located in salt tunnels. 

As of 2014, more than 2.1 million small arms from the 30s and 60s were stored there. How many remain now is unknown.
There is one "but": the warehouses are very deep underground and can only be taken if a security squad voluntarily surrenders them. Otherwise, it is impossible to take them. There have been food and water supplies for the guard detachment there for several years now.

— 105th Regiment of the DPR militia
@polk105

Paraskoveyevka is located near Krasnya Gora, which has been recently captured by the Wagner PMC. Many sources have reported that Paraskoveyevka is under operational encirclement and that there are fierce battles in the village.


https://t.me/Slavyangrad/33126

Posted by: Down South | Feb 12 2023 18:42 utc | 56

That is the only way for humanity to survive -by killing english parasites.

Posted by: sam | Feb 12 2023 16:31 utc | 14

##############

Gee, I have never heard this sort of genocidal language before. /s

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 12 2023 18:43 utc | 57

On the Ukrainians' retreat from Bakhmut by Alaudinov (Chechen commander):

"The enemy is trying to break through to take out their high-ranking wounded. There are a lot of foreign mercenaries. If they can't get them out, they cut off their hands and heads."

Is this what the call "Western values"?

Posted by: Zebra | Feb 12 2023 18:46 utc | 58

A small snippet from Military Chronicle:

The Operational Command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine "South" said that a Russian Su-24M bomber bombed the ill-fated island of Zmeiny. Dropped 4 bombs. Why and why is not clear. The island was abandoned by everyone as an unsafe location for the garrison. The latest news about the island dated back to the 19th December, when it was launched by journalists for a photo shoot.

https://voenhronika.ru/publ/vojna_na_ukraine/11_02_2023_poslednie_novosti_s_ukrainy_razbor_neudachnoj_ataki_nashikh_pod_ugledarom_karat_boevykh_dejstvij_segodnja_19_video/60-1-0-13630

I wonder what caught the Russians attention there?

Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 12 2023 18:48 utc | 59

@Nilo Cruz #52

Way to go Mexico. This is one way out. Isolate the World Police.

Posted by: chunga | Feb 12 2023 18:49 utc | 60

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 12 2023 16:07 utc | 7

That's not entirely true. Pope Francis went personally to the Russian Embassy in the Vatican right on February 25th.

He also said publicly that maybe the "barking of NATO at the gates of Moscow" may have something to do with this war.

I'm not a fanboy of the Catholic church and it's shortcomings, faults and crimes are legion. But it's not justified to say that the pope isn't interested in peace.

Posted by: Helmuth von Moltke | Feb 12 2023 18:59 utc | 61

Norway's first P8 Orion was delivered to Norway in February 2022.

Posted by: Lysias | Feb 12 2023 19:01 utc | 62

In #2 "Young expresses a religious viewpoint. He could be right or he could be wrong. I think he was wrong about the "bear" consuming the 3 ribs, Crimea, LPR, and DPR, because it is now 5 ribs the bear has consumed, maybe to become 10 or more. (Ukrainian provinces or Oblasts conquered by the "bear".!)

In #9 "Oldcutlas" expresses his contempt...."you (Young) need to go pray to your invisible sky daddy and ask him to help you stop!!" ha.

However, anyone who grew up as a Boy Scout knows that "BE PREPARED" is not a bad motto to observe.. just in case "Young" turns out to be right.!!!

My Opinion: .....Only the uninformed would support the Biden Gang of Warmonging -- mostly "Jxxish" -- Neocons. Like Vicky Nuland and her husband Robert Kagan. Why keep it a secret.?
(The ones who aren't "Jxxish" are stooges.!)
And don't forget the power of the Rothschilds "One Bank", conglomeration of central banks, and their influence on the war. “If my sons did not want wars, there would be none.” — Gutle Schnaper, wife of Mayer Amschel Rothschild and mother of his five sons.

OkieMuskogee

Posted by: OkieMuskogee | Feb 12 2023 19:04 utc | 63

@ West of England Andy | Feb 12 2023 18:48 utc | 59

Likely SF/SpecOps elements in hides, maintaining absence of AFU, even merely placed unmanned sensors. Previous repeated occurrences.

Possibility of preparatory to return to future RF re-occupation to deploy ranged fire platforms & AD in support of seaborne diversionary/feint Ops re Odessa.

PS Good to see your posts. Cheers & Salut!

@ Helmuth von Moltke | Feb 12 2023 18:59 utc | 61

Overlooked multiple public partisan remarks ? In support of the Galician OUN-B Nazi's ? Especially describing Russia as comprised of 'barbarian untermenschen & mongoloids' ? Attributing fault & blame essentially wholly on RF, for both the conflict & it's continuance, repeatedly ?

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 12 2023 19:08 utc | 64


But it's not justified to say that the pope isn't interested in peace.

Posted by: Helmuth von Moltke | Feb 12 2023 18:59 utc | 61

The pope who said it's morally acceptable to send weapons to Ukraine is interested in peace???

Posted by: Vikichka | Feb 12 2023 19:10 utc | 65

Not so much Norway who detonated the Nordstream bombs flying over them in a P8 aircraft, Norway has many energy pipelines I expect to see some of them suffer a similar fate in the not to distant future

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 12 2023 16:34 utc | 16

I have seen multiple flight tracker videos that identify the aircraft circling above the sabotage sites as American.

Sorry, but anything an anonymous source "leaked" to Hersh has to be taken with a huge grain of salt. We can only speculate as to who they were and their motive.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 12 2023 19:11 utc | 66

Yes I don't quite understand why Norway would get itself involved in aiding in an act of war, it has made more than enough from its own energy, or has greed risen its ugly head, possibly that's the answer, whatever the reason I agree Norway has damaged its reputation on the international stage.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 12 2023 18:39 utc | 54

######################

None of these vassal states care about reputation. As soon as the hegemony falls, they will claim blackmail and coercion. Accountability is non-existent among career political actors. Anyone with integrity usually stays out of politics or does not last long enough to gain serious power.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 12 2023 19:15 utc | 67

Republic of Scotland @54

Flip side of too much poverty creating social problems and at times even civil unrest...is that too much wealth, particularly when concentrated in a definite minority of a people, can also disrupt and debase social cohesion. It appears that the North Sea oil wealth, which made Norway the per capita highest income levels in the Western world has engendered an Uber class which has eventuated the likes of Jens Stoltenberg into positions of power.

Norway's elites have become toxic, particularly in comparison with the traditional rural values which continued to infuse the higher rungs of that nation's society as relatively recently as the early to mid '80's.

When elite status is totally dominated by wealth, such a bourgeois leadership/rulership will have become alienative from the very roots of that nation's innate culture. I believe it was the Norse-American sociologist Thorstein Veblen who first introduced this analytical paradigm.

Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 12 2023 19:27 utc | 68

@LoveDonbass | Feb 12 2023 19:15 utc | 67

None of these vassal states care about reputation.
As a Norwegian I can tell you that our government has been bragging about our reputation since forever.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 19:29 utc | 69

Oberbayer@40
This appears to be the most substantial benefit that the US has got from its coup against Imran Khan.
It is the story of Pakistan's sad life- a military, originally British trained, instinctively turning to the biggest and wealthiest power. It will do anything so long as the Americans protect it from the enemy it fears most-the people of Pakistan.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 12 2023 19:30 utc | 70

Napoleon's statement that an army marches on it's stomach, translated into Contemporary times, is a nation's military lives on the nation's economy.
The U.S. economy is 89% Government and Services and only 11% Manufacturing. The few remaining U.S. steel mills are nearly all scrap iron feedstock types. For 30 years greedy Globalist Americans destroyed the heart of America's manufacturing basis, and replaced it with every greater Debt, borrowed against depreciating assets and future earnings. And it is preposterous to compare US Military spending, without accounting for actual value received. On that score, Russia exceeds the US by an order of magnitude.
The Debt tipping point, where interest on Debt starts to eat up exponential amounts of U.S. budgets has now been passed, with no end to out-of-control debt and money printing.
Russia, on the other hand, and also completely unlike Europe, is prudent with financial resources, which in turn, are backed up by Russia's enormous physical resources.
The false flag that is coming, could well be the end of Let's Go Brandon, with splashes of Russian Vodka and cans of Caviar scattered around the room. The U.S. is dead man walking and they don't plan to go out alone.

Posted by: kupkee | Feb 12 2023 19:33 utc | 71

On RT today: S. Lavrov openly accuses the US of the Nordstream blasts and adds "The vileness of Western politicians is well known".
Diplomacy between US and Russia is clearly dead and buried. President Putin's words remain measured and tactful however, those of Medvedev have been colourful for some time now to say the least and even the impeccable polite Lavrov is now firing broadsides. Prigozhin meanwhile revels in witty posts like "ten million Americans applied for work with Wagner" (and one million have been taken into consideration!). Kadyrov doen't want to stay behind and promises to take the fight to US mainland - well, why not, in the MMA championships they are doing quite well already...Have we ever before seen times like this? Tearing away the veil of Atlantic hypocrisy with such determination? While poor Europe remains deaf and dumb.

Posted by: Anthony | Feb 12 2023 19:35 utc | 72

..Russias special military operation.
At the start of which Vladimir Putin clearly stated Russias 3 main aims. We all know what they we're, I won't repeat...

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 12 2023 18:32 utc | 51


demilitarisation and denatzification - what was the third?


.


old hippie - I always appreciate your posts with their insights. I think we can handle the full dirt about Rahm Emanuel!

Posted by: HOBO 3 | Feb 12 2023 19:36 utc | 73

As a Norwegian I can tell you that our government has been bragging about our reputation since forever.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 12 2023 19:29 utc | 69

In my sorry state of a country the totalitarian communists became democratic capitalists overnight some 30 years ago. It's not about integrity or honor or ideology. It's pure opportunism and hypocrisy.

Posted by: Vikichka | Feb 12 2023 19:45 utc | 74

Outraged @55

Highly successful military leaders have long realized that the single most important factor in battlefield success is simply a matter of logistics...the supply train. The report you have shared indicates that more than any other factor, the Russian assaults on Ukraine's logistical system, down to the level of ammo for their AKs, signifies that many of their units in highly contested zones of the front are essentially running on fumes.

No ammo. No hope/

Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 12 2023 19:46 utc | 75

Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 12 2023 17:29 utc | 36

Always great posts and telling observations.

Posted by: Oberbayer | Feb 12 2023 17:41 utc | 40

That they will end up being used to target civilians is a given. Conflicting interests in Pakistan, to put it mildly.

Posted by: anon2020 | Feb 12 2023 19:54 utc | 76

@Outraged | Feb 12 2023 19:08 utc | 64

My curiosity was piqued because that location was in the limelight during the early stages of the SMO, then it disappeared off the radar, so to speak.

Still, one thing I took from the report is that despite “muh Ukraine air defences” trumpeted by various drive-by and concern trolls, the Russian air force is quite happy to operate where it wishes.

Thank you, btw, for your continuing work with the ’clobber lists’. You and @Down South provide valuable info for those of us who have the ear-splitting volume of the Western Mighty Wurlitzer trying to deafen us.

Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 12 2023 20:01 utc | 77

Highly successful military leaders have long realized that the single most important factor in battlefield success is simply a matter of logistics...the supply train. The report you have shared indicates that more than any other factor, the Russian assaults on Ukraine's logistical system, down to the level of ammo for their AKs, signifies that many of their units in highly contested zones of the front are essentially running on fumes.

No ammo. No hope/

Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 12 2023 19:46 utc | 75

One of the primary characteristics of this war, from the beginning, has been the disastrously profligate spending of resources by the Ukrainian side. A perfect test of the balls-out-all-the-way approach to war everybody keeps suggesting.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 12 2023 20:06 utc | 78

What is the reasoning behind cutting off hands and heads? I suppose it's to prevent identification. Mercs will have just disappeared - leaving nothing for their families. Ukrainians - same. No support for families. I suppose you've got to be a loyal lickspittle to do that to your comrades. Maybe they get paid for turning in the parts.

The US gov used to pay for scalps of Native Americans. That was a story that got turned around a bit.

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Feb 12 2023 20:09 utc | 79

Posted by: Zebra | Feb 12 2023 17:49 utc | 42

No offense intended, but LOL. Have you ever heard the saying "It isn't true unless/until there's an official denial"?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 12 2023 20:14 utc | 80

Posted by: Lysias | Feb 12 2023 19:01 utc | 62

There was a weird incident (with video, early November) of a Norwegian P3 dropping a sonobuoy in front of a Russian nuclear submarine.

https://eurasiantimes.com/russian-nuke-submarine-crew-simulates-shooting-down-a-p-3-orion/

Unclear if there’s anything to be learned about Norwegian military-political decision making that could inform an analysis of the Nord Stream arrack.

Posted by: anon2020 | Feb 12 2023 20:16 utc | 81

Sorry, but anything an anonymous source "leaked" to Hersh has to be taken with a huge grain of salt. We can only speculate as to who they were and their motive.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 12 2023 19:11 utc | 66

Sorry, after Sweden shut down the international investigation, declared they will hide all evidence and footage from the explosion sites, and block access for Russia, Gazprom and others from inspecting the site and the evidence, as long as the German and the Danish government refuse to share any and all evidence and information they have, Hersh's analysis stands.
Can't have it both: Hide evidence, block investigations and access to witnesses - and expect journalists to present comprehensive evidence.

Posted by: Marvin | Feb 12 2023 20:17 utc | 82

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 12 2023 20:06 utc | 78

Also, avoiding making mistakes also plays an important part.

As long as you make less numerically and significantly mistakes than the enemy, you're in a very strong position. Especially if the enemy has a tendency to make a lot on his own. We can talk about different tactical or strategical level, but Russia has, on a strategic level avoided making a mistake of any time getting into complete circlement, Kherson scenario probably being the largest example.

Rushing head-on into enemy fortifications without suppressing or destroying artillery support is another potential mistake.

Posted by: unimperator | Feb 12 2023 20:18 utc | 83

@ aristodemos | Feb 12 2023 19:46 utc | 75

An analogy would be in-cohesive temporarily cobbled together tribes in antiquity collectively going to War with a fraction of the might of the Empires standing professional Roman Legions, including their unit & manpower reserves(and ability to repeatedly raise & arm more on demand), siege trains, engineers, artillery, fixed & transient fortifications, medical & logistical trains, wealth and drawable resources at the height of its might ... for more than a brief season ...

The US sacrificial proxy, Ukraine, lost this conflict, as repeatedly stated, at least ~8 months ago. We are well into the 'Quickly' phase re Ernest Hemingway on the subject of 'Bankruptcy'.

Excessive focus on minutia, individual events & tactical issues, individual arms or tactical battles, out of context nor in proportion or relevance is interesting, for sports fans, yet not what Strategists nor Intelligence Analysts are supposed nor trained to spend their time on.

The old saw is we won EVERY battle in Vietnam! (Unsaid, we lost the one thing that mattered, the actual War). The former is utter BS, in attempted avoidance of acknowledging the latter, result. We had to abandon Sth Vietnam via Vietnamization 'cause the military was shot, incapable & ineffective, manpower sustainment & cost & logistical support unsustainable, along with loss of political/public support.

See: Ukraine, War, 2022-2023.

Cheers

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 12 2023 20:20 utc | 84

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 12 2023 20:14 utc | 80

You won't get a president or a prime minister to lie like that. A spokesman or a deputy can twist words or even outright lie, but not a head of state. And helping the US blowing up a pipeline must have been sanctioned from the very top if Norway was involved (barring rogue military of course).

Posted by: Zebra | Feb 12 2023 20:24 utc | 85

@Nilo Cruz | Feb 12 2023 18:34 utc | 52

I'm proud of AMLO, too, for refusing to participate in anti-Russian sanctions, but I'm very afraid that the gran matón del Norte, the big bully, the snake-headed gorgon up north, will somehow corral Mexico into a North American entity, along with Canada. At that point, Mexico is lost.

Posted by: Mexicana | Feb 12 2023 20:25 utc | 86

Posted by: jpc | Feb 12 2023 16:32 utc | 15

Perhaps a bayonet up their back channel,Libya style, might bring some mental clarification, Neocons first in line.

Posted by: morongobill | Feb 12 2023 20:26 utc | 87

Rushing head-on into enemy fortifications without suppressing or destroying artillery support is another potential mistake.

Posted by: unimperator | Feb 12 2023 20:18 utc | 83

Yeah, thanks for your comment, and that is the other thing that stands out, "when a Russian goes to take a crap, he has a plan!" The Ukrainians and for that matter the US Gov't have wishes and impulses and think that is a plan.

"I wish for jets now! Tinkle tinkle tinkle .... Wooooooosh!"

I suspect a lack of knowledge and human intelligence about the "battlespace" has a lot to do with it, you cannot take into account things you do not know and never thought about before. And the USA does not give a crap about that sort of thing.

Russia, on the other hand, this is their front yard.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 12 2023 20:29 utc | 88

"If we do not build left-right coalitions on issues such as militarism, health care, a living wage and union organizing, we will be impotent in the face of corporate power and the war machine."

Posted by: Linda Wood | Feb 12 2023 17:26 utc | 35
-------------------------------------------

Left/right political coalition; sounds nice but it can never work, the two are polar opposites and they have no common interest without being faced with a common existential threat. The ousting of Scott Ritter from the so called "left/right coalition" happened because prowar and extreme conservative libertarians hate Scott Ritter because they supported Bush's Iraq war. Others are there just to infiltrate, spy, misdirect and disrupt.

However, people with polar opposite political views might come together to form a temporary alliance like the USSR and the Allied Forces did during WW2. But they did not come together to sing "kumbaya my Lord," bang symbols, and dance and sing for peace. The alliance between the capitalist west and the USSR was a war alliance to pool resources and weapons together to destroy a common enemy, Germany, and then turn their guns on each other, as they did.

Posted by: Ed | Feb 12 2023 20:32 utc | 89

Posted by: Marvin | Feb 12 2023 20:17 utc | 82 "Sorry, after Sweden shut down the international investigation"

Doesn't look like access is all that blocked. Some journalists went to the site and surveyed it with underwater drones. They reported a Russian ship was anchored in the area while they getting the video for their story.

And what witness where there that access to them is blocked?

Posted by: Bill Smith | Feb 12 2023 20:33 utc | 90

aristodemos (68).

As a Scot living Scotland I and many, many other Scots always admired how Norway made the most of its North sea assets, when our own was and till is, stolen by Westminster(England).

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 12 2023 20:34 utc | 91

@ West of England Andy | Feb 12 2023 20:01 utc | 77

Most welcome.

@ Bemildred | Feb 12 2023 20:06 utc | 78
@ unimperator | Feb 12 2023 20:18 utc | 83

Indeed, valid clearly defined State goals, informing an objective achievable Strategy, yet the willingness to be flexible & agile re Operations, always extremely cognizant of the ultimate primary objective of achieving, without distraction or diversion, the strategic goals set.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 12 2023 20:34 utc | 92

"Anyone with integrity usually stays out of politics or does not last long enough to gain serious power."

LoveDonbas (67)

I have to say that's why the world's in the sorry state its in, if only more people with integrity and morals DID enter politics, maybe they could set a better example for the rest, afterall isn't it about making the world a better place for ALL to live in.

Or am I being far to idealistic, I'd like to think not.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 12 2023 20:38 utc | 93

@ Republicofscotland @ 27
Re Motive. You wrote,
"The question is why the Norwegians are getting dragged into the middle of the situation"
https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/27/baltic-pipe-norway-poland-gas-pipeline-opens-in-key-move-to-cut-dependency-on-russia

"Leaders from Poland, Norway and Denmark have attended a ceremony to mark the opening of the new Baltic Pipe, a key stage in the drive to wean Poland and Europe off Russian gas.
The pipeline will transport natural gas from the Norwegian shelf via Denmark and through the Baltic Sea to Poland. It is the centrepiece of a Polish strategy to diversify away from Russia that began years before Moscow’s February invasion of Ukraine triggered a global energy crisis. The flows from Norway along with supplies via liquefied gas terminals are central to Poland's plan. The country was cut off from Russian gas supplies in April, allegedly for refusing to pay in roubles. '"The era of Russian domination in the field of gas is coming to an end, the era that was marked by blackmail, threats and extortion,"' Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said at the inauguration at Budno in western Poland. Norwegian Energy Minister Terje Aasland said it was "an important step on the important road to Europe's independence from Russian energy".'"We must do everything we can to eliminate energy as an instrument of Russian power," added Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen. "Together we will defeat Putin."' The inauguration came after Danish and Swedish authorities identified several gas leaks on the Russian-operated Nord Stream pipelines, prompting fears of sabotage."

Posted by: Willow | Feb 12 2023 20:42 utc | 94

“if only more people with integrity and morals DID enter politics”

—their planes and helicopters would be shot down, they’d be gunned down walking home from the movies, they’d commit suicide by firing multiple bullets into their heads…

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 12 2023 20:44 utc | 95

When Ze is generous and snow is enough for everyone's nose!

https://rmx.news/hungary/hungary-would-annex-slovakian-territory-if-russia-won-in-ukraine-claims-slovak-minister/

According to news portal Bumm.sk, Kácer was asked on the program whether Slovakia is threatened by Hungary and whether Hungary will, in a few years’ time, make territorial claims against Slovakia.

The Slovak politician responded by saying he believes that a territorial dispute is not a few years away but is a topical issue today, which is why he said it is important for Slovakia as a whole that Russian troops do not win in Ukraine.

Posted by: Arioch | Feb 12 2023 20:44 utc | 96

"Sorry, but anything an anonymous source "leaked" to Hersh has to be taken with a huge grain of salt. We can only speculate as to who they were and their motive.

Opportunity Knocks (66).

Sorry but I utterly disagree with the above."

Hersh is arguably one of the greatest living journalists, his reputation to a point, is built on anonymous tip-offs that have turned out to be true.

Take a look for yourself.


https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 12 2023 20:44 utc | 97

Williow (94)

Thank for the link and the excerpt from it, very interesting indeed and it would certainly point in that direction why Norway got involved in the act of war against Russia.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 12 2023 20:46 utc | 98

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 12 2023 20:34 utc | 92

Yeah, I am sure we are on the same page here ...

Engineers and other such people who are in the habit of getting things done, pooping all over the creative efforts of our betters.

I have a feeling something is going to crack here soon. Time for Arnold to rise up out of the swamp with an MG60 under each arm.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 12 2023 20:46 utc | 99

OK on the NS issue, people should remember that in every story, there are things not said and things deliberately mis-told. This is true if discussing any issue from military conflict through to divorce and which kid stole the chocolate bars.

It does not matter whether Hersh is knows more than he tells or whatever.

What we can say is that in every story like this, whether deliberately leaked or actively researched, there will be a grain (actually a very, very large slice) of the truth. Here is my qick guessing on the real situation:

First, I think everyone knows that the USA was behind the action, whether practically or only by instigation. I think that this reality has pretty much been accepted by all serious Germans, including industry and in all likelihood the Russians or someone in Germany has evidence to prove it.

Second then it makes sense for senior bods in the USA to leak a story that gets in first. Puts the best spin on it for the USA and selects the best timing for the release. This is particularly likely if in fact Hersh was actually getting close to the truth independently.

Third. if leaked by a senior bod in the USA, they will deliberately insert some errors because it weakens the case, especially if in 10 year there is a court case. Also choose Hersh who at 85 is not likely to be able to testify in the law suit in 10 years.

So we as readers need to think rationally to try to sort out which parts of Hersh's story are the red herrings. I think that it is reasonable to assume that 75% is true, but the issue is sorting out which 25% is not.

My own guess is that the US sources would be anxious to protect themselves if it was a US plane that triggered the explosion or at least to protect the air force, while sacrificing the Navy. They would also probably be keen to protect the UK, since if they drop the UK in the mix there are a lot of secrets known to the MI6 and any serious rift with the UK could lead to all sorts of embarrassing leaks. So Norway is sacrificed instead of the UK, perhaps because it is felt that Russia is less likely to retaliate on Norway or that Norwegian quislings and well under the thumb.

One serious issue for the USA, that nobody is discussing, is just how reliable is the UK these days. The huge social shifts that has seen Rishi Sunak elected as PM indicates that the Angloshpere connection is weakening. Yes Sunak is probably in the pocket of the USA as is Starmer, but what about the nation as a whole. Economically the UK is in the basket, and outcomes in such cases are unpredictable. Better to dump on weak Norway, than risk further destabilisation in UK.

Perhaps it is in fact SCOTLAND being protected. They do not want an attack of the trident bases.

Sorry these are random thoughts sort of but still worth exploring.

One final thing is to stop dumping on Hersh. He has burst the bubble and allows the truth to leak out perhaps more slowly than we like but at least it is coming. He is i think genuine, and even if being used by USA, his role is nevertheless beneficial.

Posted by: watcher | Feb 12 2023 20:48 utc | 100

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