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February 10, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-35
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
# 79 parting is such sweet sorrow. The pr campaign the control of information the theatrics of it all: good vs. evil , was packaged for western consumption. The simple minded. I doubt serious thinking nations were hoodwinked by this repetitive moral posturing, from the west. Posted by: Dingo | Feb 10 2023 22:02 utc | 101 Two flavors of peace that could come after this war : Genuine peace would mean that EU resumes buying Russian energy and reopening plants. Posted by: Exoriare | Feb 10 2023 22:03 utc | 102 Down South 83 Posted by: Mike R | Feb 10 2023 22:03 utc | 103 @Elmagnostic, §65: Posted by: John Marks | Feb 10 2023 22:06 utc | 104 For all those warriors in their comfortable English armchairs fighting to the last Ukrainian. Posted by: Paul McGrory | Feb 10 2023 22:07 utc | 105 The EU hasn’t yet found $238 billion of the $300 billion in Russian foreign exchange funds that are allegedly “frozen” early last year. Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | Feb 10 2023 22:08 utc | 106 @ Posted by: Passerby | Feb 10 2023 19:59 utc | 60 Posted by: BroncoBilly | Feb 10 2023 22:09 utc | 107 Russia Retaliates for Sanctions By Announcing Oil Output Cut Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | Feb 10 2023 22:11 utc | 108 RF used drone boats on an attack of Odessa bridge in Zatoga. seems two can play at that game after all Posted by: hankster | Feb 10 2023 22:11 utc | 109 Wagner Leader says it will take about 1 and a half more years to secure Donbas for Russia. Posted by: Comandante | Feb 10 2023 22:13 utc | 110 #87 the Poland mess is light on spirit. Perhaps they should look inward instead of outward. Posted by: Dingo | Feb 10 2023 22:15 utc | 111 Wagner boss estimates how long Ukraine conflict will last
Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 10 2023 22:17 utc | 112 Eighthman #6
I recall some months ago Martyanov made a brief mention of this extraordinary Russian achievement. He was brief and did not linger on the subject other than to surmise that the west would be sh!tting itself being faced with this defeat of their artillery. Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 10 2023 22:17 utc | 113 Russian With Attitude Twitter thread of the interview with Evgeny Prigozhin by Semyon Pegov, veteran Russian war correspondent with many wars under his belt, and founder of the WarGonzo media project.
– RSH Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | Feb 10 2023 22:21 utc | 114 John Marks,,,,,Got exited from Polish Historical Society because : said American troops and Missiles in Poland were Idiotic . They have not learned from History . Posted by: leocz | Feb 10 2023 22:25 utc | 115 @Eighthman, §91: Posted by: John Marks | Feb 10 2023 22:25 utc | 116 @ Down South, §93: Posted by: John Marks | Feb 10 2023 22:30 utc | 117 My guess about this is European officials siphoned most of CBR’s foreign-exchange reserves off and are going to claim that the money has disappeared. American officials had done something like this with trillions of dollars from Pentagon’s reserves. Posted by: Melana | Feb 10 2023 22:34 utc | 118 Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | Feb 10 2023 22:21 utc | 112 Posted by: alek_a | Feb 10 2023 22:42 utc | 119 @Paul McGrory, §103: Posted by: John Marks | Feb 10 2023 22:42 utc | 120 @ Bronco Billy, §105: Posted by: John Marks | Feb 10 2023 22:44 utc | 121 To 7 “Young,” it is well known that Daniel 7:5 was a prophecy regarding the Pomeranian War between Sweden and Prussia between 1757 and 1762. It has no relevance today. Posted by: casca | Feb 10 2023 22:49 utc | 122 List of republicans who backing the resolution to end aid to Kievan regime : https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-republicans-backing-matt-gaetz-resolution-end-ukraine-aid-1780233 Posted by: Virai | Feb 10 2023 22:54 utc | 123 Looks like russias strikes were good last night. A nuke plant had to shut down so I guess they’ve moved up the food chain in transformers. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 10 2023 22:56 utc | 124 Moldova ex-PM spacht: our citizens failed to give us support as good, as we had from other governments, which depressed our performance. Posted by: Arioch | Feb 10 2023 22:58 utc | 125 @ CharlesLutherThanos | Feb 10 2023 22:21 utc | 112 Oberbayer @19– Russia isn’t going to “buy” part of Ukraine.. they’ve already paid for it with the blood of their soldiers, that is enough costs for them!! Posted by: Oldcutlas | Feb 10 2023 23:07 utc | 128 I read before that Alaska was not sold to the US, it was leased for a hundred years, (like Hong Kong). Posted by: wagelaborer | Feb 10 2023 23:07 utc | 129 FEBA is the furthest area controlled by the main force, FLOT the furthest extent of ALL friendly units, including covering and screening forces. The artificial terms really differentiate the extent the various units control their battle space and the boundaries they are responsible for. I’ve noticed the term ‘grey zone’ to describe the FLOT/FLET meeting engagements, but I don’t think the Russians would use such vague terms. It would be interesting to know, as language can often give valuable insights into SOP’s e.g. the concept of the Advanced Guard; which I think has been formalised into the BTG. Posted by: Milites | Feb 10 2023 23:10 utc | 130 Posted by: young | Feb 10 2023 17:05 utc | 7 Posted by: Trimalchio | Feb 10 2023 23:11 utc | 131 @124 I imagine Ukrainians would jump at the chance to get France and Italy. Think of the shopping! Very decent of Prigozhin. Posted by: dh | Feb 10 2023 23:12 utc | 132 If Russia could time it exactly right to halt electricity supplies to railways when trains from Polandd are delivering tanks. .they would be a sitting target. So are they “practising” at the moment with their current attacks to discover what goes where? Posted by: Jo | Feb 10 2023 23:21 utc | 133 Eigthman @6. You are right. Not enough if you like ‘awe’ is given to the RF air defense systems. Best still is that we haven’t seen yet the full range of its power and strata. Posted by: Jo Dominich | Feb 10 2023 23:27 utc | 134 Is Ukraine a sovereign state under the Westphalian legal concept of sovereignty? Posted by: Paul McGrory | Feb 10 2023 23:31 utc | 135 Looks like Moldova is the new Ukraine. Posted by: watcher | Feb 10 2023 23:33 utc | 136 Jo 2 131 “I am not convinced that a token effort of later models of tank supplies will now go to the front line but will be held back nearer to Nato borders defensive line…” Posted by: dh | Feb 10 2023 23:38 utc | 137 Posted by: watcher | Feb 10 2023 21:37 utc | 85 Posted by: One Too Many | Feb 10 2023 23:45 utc | 138 The pledges of armour were never realistically designed to help Ukraine win back anything, like any strategy they had a number of purposes. Firstly, to placate the thuggish US regime who would punitively punish them if they did not publicly support Biden and Co’s chief money launderer. The ‘revealing’ of the Nordstream sabotage reminding them of the stakes at play and consequences for not ‘kissing the ring’. Secondly, to allow a narrative to build that the Russian offensive was launched prematurely, because of the imminent arrival of NATO’s armoured comeback tour, and as a result it was not as effective. Finally, to provide some sort of rump force, West of the Dneiper, in case Russia did not stop on the eastern bank. When I heard that Leopard 1’s were part of the deal and the UK was considering Typhoons, my initial suspicions were confirmed, this was not a serious reinforcement, just a PR gimmick and an admission Ukraine would be bifurcated by Russia. Posted by: Milites | Feb 11 2023 0:08 utc | 139 @ Milites | Feb 10 2023 23:10 utc | 128
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‘Grey zone’ is a term commonly used by western MSM, as per previous post. Meeting engagements ? Posted by: watcher | Feb 10 2023 23:33 utc | 134 Posted by: Poison Frogs | Feb 11 2023 0:17 utc | 141 @ Helmuth von Moltke | Feb 10 2023 21:36 utc | 84 Posted by: james | Feb 11 2023 0:20 utc | 142 unimperator Posted by: Milites | Feb 11 2023 0:23 utc | 143 Moldova feels the evil eye from Zelensky:
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 11 2023 0:25 utc | 144 Posted by: james | Feb 11 2023 0:20 utc | 140 Posted by: Poison Frogs | Feb 11 2023 0:30 utc | 145 when even beggars critique the free stuff. Ukrainian pilot Lieutenant Colonel Dmitry Fischer, who claimed that the F-16’s performance is significantly inferior to that of the Su-27. He based the assessment on his personal experience in flying both aircraft. “…I flew the F-16 the first day and loved it. However, in terms of performance, the Su-27 is significantly superior,” Fischer admitted. He then added that the Russian-designed jet has better flight performance in every category, including speed and maneuverability, giving it an incomparable advantage in dogfights and WVR (within visual range) engagements. The pilot concluded his remarks with an assertion that the Su-27 is “the king of dogfighting”. Posted by: hankster | Feb 11 2023 0:30 utc | 146 @ james | Feb 11 2023 0:20 utc | 140
Paul McGrory @133– reply to 132 Posted by: Eighthman | Feb 11 2023 0:47 utc | 149 Outraged @145– @ Poison Frogs | Feb 11 2023 0:30 utc | 143 @ Poison Frogs | Feb 11 2023 0:30 utc | 143 and @ Outraged | Feb 11 2023 0:31 utc | 145 Posted by: james | Feb 11 2023 1:07 utc | 152 “We cannot allow Russian athletes to line up alongside Team GB and everyone else on the world stage.” Posted by: Dalit | Feb 11 2023 1:11 utc | 153 West has 72 hrs to evacuate everyone from the Nuclear Strike Zones Posted by: cafe con leche | Feb 11 2023 1:13 utc | 154 Empire refuses to acknowledge any vote that circumvents its “rules,” Posted by: cafe con leche | Feb 11 2023 1:18 utc | 155 read it again Sam. This takes courage.
Just days after Sy Hersh’s bombshell on NordStream, something is happening. Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 11 2023 1:18 utc | 156 Utah Republican Senator Mike Lee said he was “troubled” over the report. “I can’t immediately rule out the suggestion that the U.S. blew up Nord Stream,” Lee stated on Twitter. “I checked with a bunch of Senate colleagues. Among those I’ve asked, none were ever briefed on this. If it turns out to be true, we’ve got a huge problem.” Posted by: Ed | Feb 11 2023 1:18 utc | 157 They questioned Hersh’s journalistic credibility Posted by: cafe con leche | Feb 11 2023 1:22 utc | 158 Posted by: james | Feb 11 2023 1:07 utc | 150 Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | Feb 11 2023 1:22 utc | 159 Joe Biden may have to explain this to Congress Posted by: cafe con leche | Feb 11 2023 1:25 utc | 160 @ james | Feb 11 2023 1:07 utc | 150 Posted by: Poison Frogs | Feb 11 2023 1:26 utc | 161 i heard chernobyl has the most thriving wildlife on the planet.
Posted by: sln2002 | Feb 11 2023 1:27 utc | 162 @ CharlesLutherThanos | Feb 11 2023 1:22 utc | 157 Posted by: james | Feb 11 2023 1:30 utc | 163 @ Likklemore | Feb 11 2023 1:18 utc | 154 Re: Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 10 2023 22:17 utc | 110
Re: Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | Feb 10 2023 22:21 utc | 112
Obvious trolling? Posted by: Julian | Feb 11 2023 1:37 utc | 165 @ CharlesLutherThanos | Feb 11 2023 1:22 utc | 157 Posted by: Poison Frogs | Feb 11 2023 1:43 utc | 166 Is the game changing? Is this why the Moldova overt nazi/west lovers coup has now been instigated – for a larger war? We see much push back against Zelenski and the persistent demands for more toys. Is this a vote of no confidence or a major transfer of war fighting responsibilities. And to whom – the ammo strapped Nato clown cart?
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 11 2023 1:43 utc | 167 In-depth Helmer article on the Hersh report’s assumptions and weak proofs. Posted by: daffyDuct | Feb 11 2023 1:46 utc | 168 @ Poison Frogs Posted by: malenkov | Feb 11 2023 1:53 utc | 170 daffyDuct #166 Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 11 2023 1:58 utc | 171 @ uncle tungsten Posted by: malenkov | Feb 11 2023 2:11 utc | 172
I read quotes from someone on the front lines last summer. He talked about the artillery disparity and he wanted out but felt that if he went back home he would have to go to prison (but I think he also risked being shot by Azov if caught). Apparently being imprisoned for deserting was worse than sitting in a trench to him. I recently read about a guy who was convicted of trying to get out of conscription and he was given three years in prison. Don’t know if he had connections or that is typical, but at this point 10 years in prison would beat dying in a Bakhmut ditch or cauldron. Posted by: Simon | Feb 11 2023 2:11 utc | 173 @ Simon Posted by: malenkov | Feb 11 2023 2:19 utc | 174 Eighthman @91 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 11 2023 2:35 utc | 175 it’s clever of the republicans to come out against the war and/or the expense, while the US takes over European industry. it soon won’t take any fancy accounting tricks to have Europe funding all or most of the (European theater of?) conflict being fought by vastly overpriced and overrated US military weapons. the war can go on, along with the delusion that there is opposition or division or even debate over war in the US, all while the US follows Tucker Carlson’s advice to prepare for war with China by invading Mexico. repressed fag man boys like Matt Gaetz get to sound tough while slobbering and drooling with penis envy all over the US war machine, Europe becomes more fully integrated into the US military and ramps up its war economy, while US gets to act tough by murdering and torturing migrants in the desert (w/lots of homegrown applause cuz we want the US to win sometimes!), while also worrying how to inflate the next Chinese balloon threat. so much win for the nazi death state thru all the controlled opposition. a nation raped in high school by the JROTC needs to be saved from the Russiagate QAnon threat, by the most frequent flyer of all on the Epstein express: Donald Trump. Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 11 2023 2:38 utc | 176 John Marks @118 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 11 2023 2:52 utc | 177 Konstantin Kuhle of the FDP said that the perpetrators of the destruction of critical infrastructure in Europe are known: Russia is destroying infrastructure in Ukraine and is no longer even disguising its goal, which is the “destruction of Ukraine.” Kuhle went on to say that Russia is trying to corrode democracy in Europe by seeking “targeted contacts with advocates” in the institutions, “they sit on the margins,” Kuhle said, pointing to the left and AfD, and saying that we must protect ourselves from the “enemies of democracy in our house.” // Posted by: Ed | Feb 11 2023 2:57 utc | 178 malenkov | Feb 11 2023 2:11 utc | 170 Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 11 2023 3:01 utc | 179 End the endless wars….. there are rumblings on the Hill.
declare end of war in Afghanistan, Somalia, close the 800 bases, exit Syria and disband NATO. Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 11 2023 3:03 utc | 180 Posted by: bevin | Feb 10 2023 18:28 utc | 32 Posted by: Longhorn | Feb 11 2023 3:08 utc | 181 Likklemore | Feb 11 2023 3:03 utc | 178 Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 11 2023 3:15 utc | 182 So why now? Why this smokescreen at this moment. Hersh has produced a p!ssweak wimp at the very moment russiagate hoax is revealed, Moldova coup it completed, Zelensky told to p!ss of with his whingeing, whining grovelling for weapons, Credit Suisse tanking? Why is Seymour Hersh so flavor of the week with an old story clumsily reported for the nth time? Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 11 2023 3:19 utc | 183 I have a question for the bar. If it has already been asked, or already answered, I haven’t seen it. Posted by: Dalit | Feb 11 2023 3:22 utc | 184 @7 young “For now only one major road remains open in/out of Bakhmut.” Posted by: Yeah, Right | Feb 11 2023 3:22 utc | 185 daffyDuct #166 Posted by: Ed | Feb 11 2023 3:25 utc | 186 @ Outraged | Feb 11 2023 1:36 utc | 162 Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 11 2023 3:27 utc | 187 Likklemore @154 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 11 2023 3:27 utc | 188 the prophetic words of Daniel 7:5. Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 11 2023 3:28 utc | 189 In response to Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 11 2023 3:29 utc | 190 Posted by: Dalit | Feb 11 2023 3:22 utc | 182 Posted by: Ed | Feb 11 2023 3:39 utc | 191 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 11 2023 3:27 utc | 186 Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 11 2023 3:43 utc | 192 Ed @155 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 11 2023 3:45 utc | 193 Paul Spencer | Feb 10 2023 18:22 utc | 31 Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 11 2023 3:54 utc | 194 My take on the 1.5 yrs for DPR/LPR and 3.5 yrs for Dnipr by PMC Wagner boss is a warning to those who might be inclined to think that Russia will tire of the task at hand. They will not, however long it takes. Posted by: the pessimist | Feb 11 2023 4:02 utc | 195 rjb.5 @174 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 11 2023 4:03 utc | 196 Lil Chuckie Schumer said THAT? Man that methane stench from the ruptured Nordstrom must really be having a direct effect on Congre$$. The AUMF is massively contra-Constitutional. Thus, when I$rael’s biggest supporter in the $enate is going “off message”, there must be total turmoil in the Di$trict of Corruption after Hersch’s revelation. Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 11 2023 4:12 utc | 197 Likklemore @178 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 11 2023 4:14 utc | 198 Now….seriously. This does it. This quote puts the final point under my alienation from Germany and the western world as a whole. Posted by: Organic | Feb 11 2023 4:21 utc | 199 # 185 I viewed the crosstalk segment, thanks for the link. I don’t think us&eu are going to go into a fetal position, they are to far gone. The rabid hyena”s are cornered, fearful and will lash out. Posted by: Dingo | Feb 11 2023 4:22 utc | 200 |
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