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February 8, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-33
Comments
@4 upstater | Feb 8 2023 15:06 utc | 4
Fighter jets are no longer a real issue for sophisticated AA-systems such as the S-400 and S-500. The current challenge is shooting down rockets such as Himars and any future hypersonic missiles. So I think the Typhoon and F-16’s will just make nice target practice for the Russian AA.
Posted by: xeen | Feb 8 2023 21:25 utc | 101
For Washington and its vassals to dare to do what SHADOWBANNED listed and that Russian government wouldn’t even respond, I even wonder in what state is Moscow’s nuclear arsenal. Like, the incident about Tupolev Tu-95 should have pressured Moscow to do something – Shelling Ukraine’s ministry of defence building for instance.
Washington might wait Ukrainian Air Force finished its training for F-16 Fighting Falcon before providing Kiev with MGM-140 ATACMS but that’s only a matter of time. Moscow is weak, Washington and its vassals now realize this and would have fun to humiliate Moscow in front of the whole world.
Posted by: Kashimir | Feb 8 2023 21:26 utc | 102
Aviation expert: NATO must create alibis for mercenary pilots in Ukraine
Aviation expert Gusarov: NATO will have to put mercenaries on fighter jets and provide them with alibis
Feb 8, 2023 at 9:25 p.m
Photo: Christophe Gateau/dpa/Global Look
Press text: Daria Volkova, Olesya Otrokova
Under the pretense of training Ukrainian pilots, London can provide the Ukrainian armed forces with NATO fighter jets and their pilots, but Russia has some responsibility for both the Eurofighter Typhoon and the F-16, aviation experts told VZGLYAD newspaper. Earlier, Britain announced plans to train Ukrainian fighter pilots.
“I am not ruling out the possibility of deliveries to Ukraine of fourth-generation Eurofighter Typhoon fighters and other NATO aircraft in service with the British Air Force. In addition, deliveries can be made before the official announcement. In addition, today’s statement by British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak could well mean that Western planes and their crews will be handed over to the armed forces of Ukraine,” said Roman Gusarov, head of the industry portal Avia.ru.
“British security in case a NATO Eurofighter Typhoon is shot down by Russian forces in the skies over Ukraine. London will immediately remind you: we wanted to train Ukrainian pilots, so we used fighters for this purpose, but we forgot to tell about it. And why is there a mercenary at the helm — well, that happens,” the aviation expert explained.
“At the same time, in reality, preparing even an experienced pilot for combat missions on a new aircraft takes many months. And if you consider that there are practically no more experienced pilots in Ukraine, the probability of seeing Ukrainian pilots flying in the sky with foreign fighters by the end of the year is practically zero. Therefore, NATO must put mercenaries on fighter jets and give them an alibi,” the expert concluded.
Air Force Major Andrei Krasnoperov agrees with this view. “To teach pilots who have flown Soviet planes all their lives, you have to spend at least a year doing it. In addition, the use of these aircraft does not require knowledge of spoken English, but of technical English,” the expert noted.
Posted by: mo3.1 | Feb 8 2023 21:30 utc | 103
Larry Johnson on the NordStream pipelines:
https://sonar21.com/sy-hersh-does-it-again/
“I do not know if this article will ignite a firestorm in the United States, but it may light the fuse on a political explosion in Germany.”
Don’t hold your breath. Nothing of the sort will happen.
Slaves don’t get to have political explosions. The Scholzistan regime won’t even issue a proforma protest.
“The German people are now confronted with the question — are they the prison bitch of the United States?”
Of course they are. What are they going to do about it, rebel against their slave master? Hahahahahaha. That I would like to see.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 8 2023 21:33 utc | 104
jgalt | Feb 8 2023 21:12 utc | 93
but then Moscow will have the same problem this guy does:
“Brandon Tsay disarmed a mass killer. Where does he go from here?” (headline, found at Seattletimes.com)
drop the bomb already! annihilate the brutes!
“to him who has nothing, it is forbidden not to relish filth.” S Beckett, no doubt w/the US in mind. the nihilism, the moral filth, existential despair, the cultivated indifference masquerading as sophistication, it’s like the PFAs in air, water and soil in the US: it’s in the spiritual molecules. nuke us already, Moscow! I consent, even if the kids don’t. Yes I said Yes I will Yes to your Yes so Yes!
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 8 2023 21:39 utc | 105
@103:
Of course they’ll be flown by NATOstanis. Yet another totally predictable thing (which I among others predicted).
Let me also predict yet again that those planes will be flying from Polandistani airports and dash back into Polandistani airspace after firing missiles at Russian forces/installations. And that any such plane shot down over Polandistan will be called an act of direct aggression against NATO.
Don’t anyone tell me that this couldn’t have been predicted when it happens.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 8 2023 21:39 utc | 106
Leopard, Leo. Patriot.Typhoon etc,etc. This movie began a long time ago. Before some of you were born. This movie now is definitely not a love story not a comedy either. This movie is a suspenseful horror drama. Guaranteed to have you at the edge of your seat. But as with everything this movie will come to a end.
Posted by: Dingo | Feb 8 2023 21:39 utc | 107
ZH
Russia Warns Of “Consequences For Entire World” If UK Sends Jets To Ukraine
Update (1410ET): Given the UK government clearly said it is “exploring” the possibility of sending fighter aircraft to Ukraine, namely its Typhoon jets, upon a visit by Ukraine’s Zelensky to London, Russia has responded fiercely. Prime Minister Sunak earlier explained:
“The first step in being able to provide advanced aircrafts is to have soldiers or aviators that are capable of using them. That is a process that takes some time. We’ve started that process today,” Sunak said at a news conference with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, after announcing Britain would train Ukrainian pilots.
“Nothing is off the table and our leadership on this issue is something that we all collectively should be very proud of.”
Russia’s embassy to UK quickly warned of “military and political consequences for the European continent and the entire world” in response.
As for the US, the Pentagon on the same day said it still has “nothing to announce.”[.]
Deaf dimwits are sleeping walking into quicksand with eyes wide shut and there is not a sane voice yelling Stop, Wake-up.
Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 8 2023 21:46 utc | 108
@102 that is the question indeed. I’m guessing it’s nowhere near thousands of operable missles, or that they’ll get through modern AD in enough numbers.
It’s too big a gamble for the west though, they can wait for it to get worse and their AD to get better. They’ve been thinking about it since 1949.
My guess though is that missle penetrating power trumps AD as its been doing so far.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 8 2023 21:52 utc | 109
Kashimir | Feb 8 2023 21:26 utc | 102
Madison Ave has a bigger budget than Moscow’s defense budget.
the PR battle itself carries different weight for different parties in the conflict. in the actual conflict, Afghanistan won. just don’t tell Americans that.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 8 2023 21:57 utc | 110
The Engels airbase attacks were the worst — never before in history had the nuclear triad of any country been directly attacked. Now it was. And the Kremlin mostly pretended it didn’t happen…
Posted by: shadowbanned | Feb 8 2023 19:22 utc | 68
#######################
An intelligent person might be inclined to wonder why.
And no, I don’t think, “Putin is a secret freemason Jew” is a credible answer.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 8 2023 22:02 utc | 111
Kashimir | Feb 8 2023 21:26 utc | 102
the western leadership is so out of touch w/reality, would they even recognize defeat? not in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.
is all this parliamentary activity, information warfare, sanctions theater, balloon theater, etc., a kind of empty business, like an addict going thru a phase of withdrawal? a desperate but futile scrounging thru the trash piles to try come up with enough for one more big score?
i don’t know. how much technical expertise does it take to sabotage a pipeline? somewhat less than it takes to deliver some usable tanks or a plane that flies. now delivering a docile population of sheep who will swallow most anything, that is definitely a multi-generational project. we have a nation chatting on its cellphones…about china’s balloon wars.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 8 2023 22:06 utc | 112
7) Yesterday’s drone attack on Moscow (again, Ukrainian-launched drone, NATO-plotted path through the eye of the needle in between AD coverage zones)
Let me ask again, what is this? Havent heard about it.
They start doing this, there is no going back. WW3.
Posted by: alek_a | Feb 8 2023 21:18 utc | 96
#####################
Almost every day there is a lot of interesting information, with tactical insight that doesn’t belong among laymen (see bolded section), posted with no corroborating evidence to support the assertion.
I find it unbelievable to think that there was an attack on Moscow and no one Telegram has mentioned it. It’s possible, but as likely as an American lunar landing and never going back to the moon ever again. Not even to rescue the stranded Transformer refugees who fled Cybertron during the war. 😉
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 8 2023 22:10 utc | 113
It’s raining trolls today. The usual Russia-is-weak, Putin-shoud-have trolls have new little companions. They chat with each other in a corner of the bar and don’t bother anyone, it’s cute. There’s even a newbie who thinks he can give the recipe for beef bourguignon on a vegan site without being spotted.
Posted by: Leuk | Feb 8 2023 22:11 utc | 114
There’s nothing special about the F-16. As has been noted before, it’s mostly because the totally ~300 or so organic + donated Mig-29 and Su-27 have been lost. So the airforce attempted to be rebuilt by F-16. So, that means the war will go on for more years and US forces are already heavily committed.
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 8 2023 22:12 utc | 115
@ Likklemore | Feb 8 2023 21:46 utc | 108
The mentioned UK Storm Shadow missiles are in fact air launched Cruise Missiles, domestic & export versions, that fly a lo-lo profile with approximate ranges of 560km & 250km respectively.
If those aircraft were ever to proceed to be armed & form up on the taxiways as flights, with a payload of cruise missiles, the RF will take out the airfields/aircraft/airbase. In fact long prior to that situ, given near minimally effective AD systems.
If by some miracle they got into the air on approach to RF territory across Ukraine without RF intervention, say hello to WW3, in any case, if the UK cruise missiles were launched at RF targets, flying from UK jets, having taken off from NATO airbases ?!
What is to prevent RF SU-57s, Mig31s & SU-35s intercepting & engaging them on distant approach from 400KM+ away and shooting them down over Ukraine proper with hypersonic R-37 AA missiles whilst still under protective umbrella/cover of RF integrated/layered AD.
This insanity is irrational bluff & bluster …
What’s going on with Kupyansk? I see some rumors that UA is abandoning the city but that seems to good to be true.
Posted by: catdog | Feb 8 2023 22:15 utc | 117
Nice copy pasta you got there, Roadcock. I see you have been quite active on the Ukie boards where this kind of disinfo is going around. Maybe you are impressed by Wikipedia (and its owners), most of us are not.
Posted by: LGB! | Feb 8 2023 22:23 utc | 118
Maybe the UK government is assuming that it will never have to honour its commitment? MOD announcements aside, they must understand how the war is going.
BTW, in a UK context, where has the anti-war left gone? Where are the inheritors of Tam Dalyell? What’s Jeremy Corbyn thinking?
Posted by: Technophobe | Feb 8 2023 22:24 utc | 119
Outraged | Feb 8 2023 22:13 utc | 116
i don’t know. don’t underestimate the west. we shot down MH17 and rigged the investigation so as to blame russia.
so the west can definitely shoot down civilian planes, that we know. can’t build a functioning nuke reactor (not that we should do that) but we can damn sure build us a stuxnet.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 8 2023 22:27 utc | 120
I think the secret decision to engage Russian forces directly was made months ago when all that armour started shipping from continental U.S…the covert build up has been happening and it’s coming to an end….the F-16s and NATO armour will be manned by NATO….we are being incrementally being conditioned to that fact…creeping normalcy. Austrian and Polish pointy heads saying they will just swap uniforms is another way of saying NATO will be driving all that equipment…but it will all fall to the attrition tactics utilized so far in theatre…if Russian designed armour and fighters are being swept away…so will current generation NATO equipment…it actually is already… The best SPECOPS units using immaculate field craft…small unit tactics…proper spacing…tight SOPs… cutting edge comms and equipment cannot survive against massed artillery as seen in theater now.I still think it’s a all in poker move to force Russia’s bluff….once Ukraine is burnt out completely… NATO will intervene hoping to seize a chunk of Ukraine… Russia has shown considerable constraint…the drone and espionage attacks itself on the Russian heartland….the attacks by NATO on their flagship…the civilian attacks on Donbas and of course the attacks on the nuclear strategic bomber squadron…. NATO is taking inactivity as a sign of weakness…but Russia is waiting for something…
Posted by: Joe | Feb 8 2023 22:36 utc | 121
@ Leuk | Feb 8 2023 22:11 utc | 114
Indeed. Cute ? Or cankerous black soulled & butt ugly ?
If RF are such incompetent moronic barbaric orcs as claimed … wow, how bad, so much worse than already is, would it be for OUN-B Nazi’s & US/NATO if they were even barely halfway competent ? And what does that say about AFU US/NATO competence in comparison ? Unsurprisingly their shift supervisors have not thought this through. Ouch.
As long as pretty much no-one interacts with them or their socks, they’ve accomplished zero other than expose themselves & remove any lingering doubts. Cheers.
@ LoveDonbass | Feb 8 2023 22:10 utc | 113
LOL 🙂
@ rjb1.5 | Feb 8 2023 22:27 utc | 120
Unit 8200 hackers & illegitimate stage managed kangaroo court/star chamber theatrics & propaganda narratives don’t count for shit on a two way live firing ranging, at scale. See: Ukraine, SMO.
@ Joe | Feb 8 2023 22:36 utc | 121
It’s all bluff & bluster, the US/NATO quiver is empty, and they dog-damned well know it. The BS negotiation ‘offer’, that cannot be refused, ie surrender, ha! See: Lavrov, re any actual ‘Serious’ proposals for negotiation …
BTW, in a UK context, where has the anti-war left gone?
Posted by: Technophobe | Feb 8 2023 22:24 utc | 119
It got suckered by Tony Bliar’s so-called ‘New Labour’ which gave it a heady taste of actual power for a time. I was there, the oh-so-heady days of a bright new future, then he hooked up to Bush’s coat-tails over Iraq, which split the Left in Britain, between those who had been seduced entirely by the sugar rush of power and those who opposed his actions as a traitorous reversion to deep-seated colonial policies. I was in the 2nd camp, we were on the losing side of the split.
Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 8 2023 22:48 utc | 123
Posted by: Outraged | Feb 8 2023 22:13 utc | 116
Its not the planes but the missile arsenal they can be equipped with.
Indeed if NATO jets fire NATO missiles with NATO space based guidance towards Russian targets, does it matter where they took off?
Posted by: alek_a | Feb 8 2023 22:49 utc | 124
By the way, those Leopard 1 tanks Germany is sending have thinner max armor plate thickness than the T-64, or even the immediate post-WW2 T-54 tank. They are originally designed in 1961. They are probably crap and not very survivable, like Martyanov alluded recently.
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 8 2023 22:50 utc | 125
@ Leuk 114
You should just enjoy the trolls’ participation in the conversation. If not you would only have the same 9 commentariat copy/pasting every word from Putin or just saying “ditto, I concur”, or ranting about the existential war to free us all from the “god of mammon”. In other words, an echo chamber.
Posted by: Anydaynow | Feb 8 2023 22:57 utc | 126
[.]
[.]What is to prevent RF SU-57s, Mig31s & SU-35s intercepting & engaging them on distant approach from 400KM+ away and shooting them down over Ukraine proper with hypersonic R-37 AA missiles whilst still under protective umbrella/cover of RF integrated/layered AD.
This insanity is irrational bluff & bluster …
Posted by: Outraged | Feb 8 2023 22:13 utc | 116
Thanks for your reply.
Insanity? yes. Bluff & bluster? Will soon end.
At the moment we have escalated from a “War of Words” and promises of materiel delivered incrementally….All actions against Russia has failed. Panic is the word.
Logistics window for delivery of tanks to UKR is closing, fighter jets are are ready to go.
Can USUK manage a war on 3 fronts? China and Iran will assist Russia. [Iran has a few scores to settle]. Israel is a strategic partner for NATO.
Patagonia beckons.
Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 8 2023 23:01 utc | 127
Telegram rumors say that the Kremlin is considering “unrecognizing” the Kiev government so that it can make this a CTO. I’d argue that there is plenty of reason to make it a CTO without that but I’m not sure changing the designation matters at all. Any further and significant changes are only going to be war with NATO directly and then it doesn’t matter.
I think it would be a mistake and actually play into the west’s favor. Things are bad in Ukraine and they’re getting worse. It’s best for Russia if Zelensky takes the bulk of the blame from the Ukrainian people. Whether they revolt or not is immaterial. If they don’t, forcing Zelensky to be the one who “surrenders” is politically preferable. It’s also preferable to have the west get rid of him. Don’t be fooled by being feted today. Photo ops mean nothing and could even be a convenient cover, “we’d never kill Zelensky, we just had him over for hugs and dinner”.
Posted by: Lex | Feb 8 2023 23:13 utc | 129
alek_a @ 124
Indeed if NATO jets fire NATO missiles with NATO space based guidance towards Russian targets, does it matter where they took off?
Russian SMO meet NATO SMO. “I’ll take ‘Red Lines’ for $100 Alex.”*
Maybe in the new millennium the only declared war is when the nukes fly.
*FYI Jeopardy – USA game show.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Feb 8 2023 23:15 utc | 130
@93.
Warmongering. I don’t want Russia to do what you suggest. My beautiful son and granddaughters live there, in London.
Posted by: Valerie Swales | Feb 8 2023 23:18 utc | 131
We have very little time. I’m talking now about the weapons needed for peace and to stop the war started by Russia,” Zelenskiy said
There was talk of “Ukraine needs to gain territory prior to peace negotiations” at some point. But then after Kharkiv and Kherson it seemed to be “once Russia is out of Ukraine and pays reparations.
then we negotiate”. Now fight back to have peace negotiations is back.
Posted by: Simon | Feb 8 2023 23:21 utc | 132
“..i don’t know. don’t underestimate the west. we shot down MH17 and rigged the investigation so as to blame russia…” rjb1.5@120
Nobody with any brains at all was convinced by the crude and deceitful tactics adopted to blame the Russians for shooting down MH17.
It was no more than a massive propaganda blitz combined with destruction of evidence on a large scale. It reached its climax in the Dutch “court’s” refusal to hear Russian evidence while accepting Kiev’s obvious fabrications.
Posted by: bevin | Feb 8 2023 23:27 utc | 133
Apparently, Russian offensive in Kreminna is supported by sixty thousand troops but so far, seems that after the initial breathrough, the assault stalled. If that’s true, that would be a shame for Moscow since that would mean that every recent offensives that aren’t made by PMC Wagner so far have been disasters. This wouldn’t seem very bright for the next winter offensive.
Posted by: Samurai | Feb 8 2023 23:27 utc | 134
Russia had a big break thru north of Bakhmut, West of Soledar. Apparently Ukraine brigade protecting the area didn’t have any ammo. Ukraine thought the mere presence of the brigade would frighten Russia from advancing.
Defense Politics Asia’s commentary on break thru…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OslhINbVQc
Posted by: Ramsey Glissadevil | Feb 8 2023 23:28 utc | 135
“I do not know if this article will ignite a firestorm in the United States, but it may light the fuse on a political explosion in Germany.”
No. But it WILL further harden opinions of the west in the minds of the Russian public.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Feb 8 2023 23:28 utc | 136
# 126 you’re smug disdain is worth nothing. I share ideas . What do you have to add,anydaynow.
Posted by: Dingo | Feb 8 2023 23:32 utc | 137
Posted by: Outraged | Feb 8 2023 22:43 utc |
No…I think they are running into to western Ukraine to salvage what they can…hoping to bluff their way in…hopping for no real direct confrontation in the form of combat…hoping U.S Nuclear triad enough to save them from same fate as Ukrainian forces
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1613628338748198940.html
This is very insightful
Posted by: Joe | Feb 8 2023 23:38 utc | 138
https://sonar21.com/ballast-from-the-past-the-unexplained-missile-fired-off-the-california-coast/#comment-113832
Remember that Malaysia Airlines plane that vanished? Nothing will ever convince me that it was not shot down by mistake by a USN ship over the South China Sea, and the “journey over the Indian Ocean” as well as the “wreckage” found in Madagascar wasn’t misdirection.
That’s why the plane has never been found to this day. They’ve been looking in the wrong ocean entirely.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 8 2023 23:40 utc | 139
Biswapriya Purkayast | 139
IMO the plane was flown using FBW (fly-by-wire) technology all the way to Diego Garcia. Valuable passangers on board.
Posted by: Sektion2B | Feb 8 2023 23:48 utc | 140
Discipline crackdown of Kievan forces sparks fear and fury on the front.
https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-zelenskyy-war-military-law
Posted by: Chimere | Feb 9 2023 0:14 utc | 141
Bevin @ 50
Why do you keep strumming on that shop-worn “antisemitic” harp? Stuck in your ideological gear, eh? By sheer numbers alone, “antisemitic” would indicate that the accusee would not like Syrians, Lebanese, Palestinians, Egyptians, Saudis, Yemenis, Iraqis etc.,etc. THEY ARE ALL SEMITES.
Wake up and do some serious sniffing. The coffee is ready for the cup. Your ideological crippling factor is in need of some rejuvenation. Still stuck in the 50’s I’d imagine.
Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 9 2023 0:16 utc | 142
Posted by: Anydaynow | Feb 8 2023 22:57 utc | 126
Have you considered the possibility that when we want to listen to NATOist cunts, we only need to turn the TV on?
Posted by: Arganthonios | Feb 9 2023 0:18 utc | 143
@ alek_a | Feb 8 2023 22:49 utc | 124
Have a reread.
@ unimperator | Feb 8 2023 22:50 utc | 125
Dedicated AT weapons of any kind will kill ’em from any direction at their effective range. Even 30mm auto-cannons on RF IFVs have a chance re the turret, side & rear armor. If the Russkies think on it, go clever with(indirect) plunging fire adjusted by drone in real-time, IFV 30mm will penetrate the topside armor. Kaboom. Direct fire isn’t necessarily, always the most effective/efficient. .50 Cal Ma Deuces were used effectively in that role against Iraqi AFVs in both wars. RF 30mm AP or APDS, no problem.
@ karlof1 | Feb 8 2023 23:05 utc | 128
Quite so, and not the only one.
@ Joe | Feb 8 2023 23:38 utc | 138
Post on/discuss such often.
It isn’t going to pass muster with RF re a pseudo-NATO bastion in Galicia. Suicidal. Poles are nuts.
Starting with the Op phase change approximately Dec23’22, decisive determined preparation of the battlefield, near full FEBA engagement along the Line, probing & recon in force, fixing attacks to pin for sustained massed attrition. RF is deliberately seeking an AFU collapse from excessive attrition & exhaustion of all ‘capable’ minimally combat effective reserves, and aggressive deliberative destruction of rear area logistics to accelerate the process. When an AFU Brigade breaks, flees or surrenders, the breach will immediately threaten over stretched flanking units in the line that will not be able to cover the gap nor the gap be timely plugged/sealed. Withdraw or be taken from flank & rear, no mutual support.
At that point RF rolls up the line or simply continues to pin & attrit to accelerate the collapse further to instigate a general route. Once AFU breaks, its over. Thence ?
@ Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 8 2023 23:40 utc | 139
@ Sektion2B | Feb 8 2023 23:48 utc | 140
OT … ever noticed the existence of the Open, ‘Open Not Ukraine Thread’ ?
shadow band @68 or so
Your constant concern is so, so sweet. Some Brits would even call it “just a bit treacly.”
Posted by: arisrtodemos | Feb 9 2023 0:24 utc | 145
Roadblock @83
Time to fess up. You have 3 choises: (1. are you a bot…your writing style appears to be an AI meme. (2. Are you now or have you ever been descended from a Ukie Nazi? (3) Do you do your job for one of the several intel sites which haunt this site?
Clean confessions can clear up many mis-apprehensions.
Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 9 2023 0:31 utc | 146
Nankin @83
The Russian state will see to it that the likes of Cargill and Blackrock will lose all their crooked investments.
Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 9 2023 0:33 utc | 147
@121 aye
I look forward to the mother land smashing natos arrogance.
Posted by: Publius Flavius | Feb 9 2023 0:38 utc | 148
Posted by: Outraged | Feb 9 2023 0:20 utc | 144
Thence….my belief is that some months ago NATO switched strategy and began a covert massing of NATO Forces… mostly U S forces in the bordering countries of Ukraine …in particular Romania. The promised NATO equipment in transit is actually part of that build up…I think NATO has assumed Russia has not responded to incremental provocation and senses Russia does not want some Western Ukraine oblasts so are gambling that they can drive East just before Ukraine collapses..to salvage their proxy…or some of it. Russia knows if Poland takes Western Ukraine and the Bandera nationalist strongholds… Poland will exterminate then….after all they decimated the Poles as well living in those areas in the forties
Posted by: Joe | Feb 9 2023 0:41 utc | 149
I think the Southern US, ‘bless his heart’ should be used for all the concern trolls. Oh! Russia lost ‘a dozen tanks’, not lost actually as historically they should be able to recover 50-60% of them. Conveniently forgetting warfare is about managing risk and the reinforcements sent to Ugledar helped a flower to start blossoming to the North of Bakhmut. Oh! Russia’s Kremmina offensive has bogged down, even though they have 60,000 men, seems only Wagner is up to the task. Really, tell that to the RU forces who supported Wagner and skilfully by-passed a minefield in front of Soledar, allowing the orchestra to play. Also, the notion of four divisions barrelling through forested terrain brings visions of the dire ‘Battle of the Bulge movie’, ‘It can be done!’
Bottom line Fuddies, the goose is cooked, the vegetables are steaming, the guests have arrived and the carving knife is being sharpened. Ukrainian forces are now having to increasingly fight without the protection of 8 years of fortifications, the ground is frozen and their rear area forces are at risk of being overrun; we haven’t even seen the Russian air assault forces make their real presence felt. Talk of armour, fighters, long ranged this and high tech that are just that, talk, cynical ploys to keep Ukraine going for another month of raiding her coffers. Leopard A1’s, seriously? I remember when the Western media were saying the deployment of it’s Cold-War opponent, the T-62, was proof positive that Russia was in dire straits, sauce for the goose and all that. The forces being promised Zelensky are the core equipment of the NATO proxy force that will occupy the left-over rump, after the inevitable defeat of the third iteration of the AFU.
Posted by: Milites | Feb 9 2023 1:02 utc | 150
I know most folks at the bar aren’t in the US, but I just wanted to share the kind of propaganda we are subject to here in the ‘Land of the Free(ks)’:
https://www.businessinsider.com/poland-should-be-next-target-after-ukraine-says-putin-ally-kadyrov-2023-2
Posted by: LGB! | Feb 9 2023 1:05 utc | 151
by: Derek Henry 61
Per your comment on financing the war from the Russian bnk, have you ever considered the 12% interest rates that the Russian Central bank assessed on the population? And that fake declared 12% inflation.. The war has been paid for in advance, but you just can’t fathom that.
by: shadowbanned 68
Choosing the battle field is more important, Russia know something that is very critical and the West is lying about (and apparently believing that lie).
The UN is a ‘dead’ organization and taking about genocide, there are many forms. You can visit my post in 2027 if you have not willfully joined the ‘genocide’ crowd.
by: Outraged 100
What you are outlining, top part of your post, is a Gey Merc/soldier’s ‘wet dream’. You get a tank, IFV, etc, fitted out with 14-16 year olds.. made most infamous in Sam Peckinpah’s “Cross of Iron” (1977).. and for those that like little girls, well there will be plenty of them also…
____________
Well, well, the west can only stretch out this war for two years due to a major mis-calculation. The big dog that no-one here is talking about is that the mRNA testing was done on the populations (Russian) in the Donbass, and the results were taken in Russian, by Russian speakers that left the evidence of many quitting after certain phases of testing. So what can that infer? I bet that Russia has ‘influenced’ / altered the data. No one here is really talking about the outbreaks of the diagnosis of Tuberculosis that is breaking out in Ukraine within the ranks of the assembled troops ..
So the real Big Dog in the room is Pfizer & friends.
Think, then act.. Stay safe.
Posted by: T S | Feb 9 2023 1:09 utc | 152
Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 9 2023 0:31 utc | 146
Sorry to disappoint but I am just a troll trying to figure out the truth and not get caught in the bubble!! Which we all can do from time to time.
Not trying to start trouble.
Thanks
Posted by: Roadblock | Feb 9 2023 1:24 utc | 153
Lurker,first comment.
I’ve seen it mentioned here, a number of times, that there were polls before the Maidan putch of 2014 indicating that a majority of Ukranians supported the Yanukovych decision to remain alligned with Russia and reject the neoliberal EU deal. Has anyone a link to these poll/polls which came out in November – January 2013-14?
Thanks
Posted by: Stormwarning | Feb 9 2023 1:31 utc | 154
@117 all russia said was kraken is gone(sent to ugledar) and the administration left for Kharkov. Dong worry they left conscripted bullet dummys to shoot shit up and get blown up.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 9 2023 1:44 utc | 155
@153 ‘Just trying to figure out the truth’ I notice a few people have presented you with the facts but your main point seems to be was it or was it not genocide. Was the Russian invasion justified? Putin watched things going on in Donbass for 8 years. Ethnic Russians there needed help so as far as Putin was concerned it was time to step in. OK?
Posted by: dh | Feb 9 2023 1:46 utc | 156
Outraged | Feb 8 2023 22:43 utc | 122
“so the west can definitely shoot down civilian planes”
stuxnet also attacked civilian facilities.
the pipeline was civilian.
9/11 was civilian planes.
and I was there, when the shit went down. In Grenada! i didnt watch my buddies get shit-faced and hungover in that Caribbean muck so this fascist, this stalin x mao could assault our basic freedoms in Europe. We beat Hitler once, we can beat him again!
beyond blowing up lots of stuff, what the US can accomplish with its awesomest military ever is questionable. I assume mostly the production is about convincing the folks back home. so yeah, Top Gun: Maverick, Battleship, Transformer and Iron Movies, are what the USM does. Cheney loved him some “Black Hawk Down”.
oh, and JROTC sexually assaults lots of kids. another victory of the US military over civilian forces.
surveilling the civilian populace, yeah, the USM can handle that. fucking up Haiti, oh you betcha.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 9 2023 2:02 utc | 157
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/white-house-says-blog-post-nord-stream-explosion-is-utterly-false-2023-02-08/
I also posted this link on another of today’s threads. I’m not sure which is the correct one…
Posted by: mjh | Feb 9 2023 2:07 utc | 158
UK – UKRAINE DECLARATION OF UNITY:
“The UK reaffirms its unwavering commitment to Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity within its recognised borders, as well as Ukraine’s right to pursue its own security arrangements,including future membership of NATO.”(…)
“The UK is proud to be the largest supplier of military aid to Ukraine after the United States, with support of £2.3bn in 2022. Since 2015, the UK has been training the Ukrainian Armed Forces through Operation ORBITAL. We were the first European country to
provide lethal aid. The UK has continued to lead the way in support for Ukraine to defend itself including anti-tank weapons and tanks. Our military support to Ukraine is enduring. UK support will continue to contribute across all three domains; Land, Air, Sea.”
(…)
“Our countries are determined to pursue victory against Russia’s invasion and a just and sustainable peace. Ukraine has a right to defend itself. Together, we will build Ukrainian armed forces that are able to defend their country and deter attacks. The UK is working with Ukraine to help develop their longer-term force structures and capabilities, to reverse Russian gains and build towards a deterrence force of the future.”
Ahead of the Vilnius Summit, we will work with Allies to deepen Ukraine’s interoperability with NATO, and to accelerate Ukraine’s transition to NATO standards.
Together with our closest partners, we will pursue long-term security commitments that will support Ukraine to defend itself and deter future Russian aggression.” (…)
There is more mentioned about plans for economic integration into a blooming garden and an announcement of the show trials against Russia to be expected around spring. Many points from the EU-NATO joint declaration are reflected in this agreement, especially article 3. and 13.
It is a document that expresses a certain tension between a readiness for the timeless fight against Russia’s security interests and at the same time a kind of obituary for the present state “Ukraine”. In any case, one seems to suspect that something big is rising. Maybe a morale boost for those in the bunkers dreaming of a deeper western connection. Macron and Scholz were much more cautious in Paris. Although one should not be fooled, Ursula’s phrase “Ukraine belongs to the European family” was mentioned.
Posted by: Konrad | Feb 9 2023 2:12 utc | 159
Posted by: Konrad | Feb 9 2023 2:12 utc | 159
###########
The irony is that by the time Ukraine could be added to NATO, it may no longer exist. 🤣🤣
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 9 2023 2:16 utc | 160
To Lurker and Stormwatcher
https://www.thepostil.com/operation-z-the-hidden-truth-about-the-war-in-ukraine/ by Jacques Baud says about a page in that the 2013 poll in Ukraine on the EU option was about 50–50. He doesn’t specify the exact vote.
Posted by: mjh | Feb 9 2023 2:16 utc | 161
Technophobe | Feb 8 2023 22:24 utc | 119
where has the anti-war left gone?
There was a small anti war demo in Dublin last week and the main one will be in London 25th feb I don’t think it will be that big though, not like the one against the invasion of Iraq.
Youth activism has been diverted into BLM and XR. There doesn’t seem to be any regional organisation to getting people to London or having regional demos. I guess the CAZ has some effect-making taking a coach into London cost prohibitive.
I suppose if people are hooked up to mainline news they believe in the ‘just’ war scenario.
Post war USA support for the far right in Europe is not on the school curriculum, so they won’t know any different.
Or they are just scrabbling around to survive in 10% inflation, massive energy bills.
(i don’t think you have to be left wing to be anti war)
Posted by: olaf22 | Feb 9 2023 2:27 utc | 162
So, yeah. The US carried out a no-shit act of war against Russia last year when they blew-up Nordstream (with the help of the Norwegians).
Posted by: Monos | Feb 8 2023 19:11 utc | 66
Doesn’t Norway have their own pipeline going to Poland, no doubt tempting but the Russians seem adverse to taking NATO head on, seem happier with the trickle of arms that wastes their effectiveness. Planes and longer range missiles can also carry nukes, from Ukraine a quick decapitation of the Russian leadership in Moscow, surely the neocons wouldn’t do that? Or more importantly do the Russians think they might? If so this will get very tense very soon.
Posted by: Organic | Feb 9 2023 2:31 utc | 163
The irony is that by the time Ukraine could be added to NATO, it may no longer exist. 🤣🤣
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 9 2023 2:16 utc | 160
Right..his tragical mood of goodbye is growing…BUT the main point is that London, as the biggest supporter of Ukraine in Europe, tried everything and got it right. Absolution for London. Absolution for Kyiv at the show trials. I heard that 41 states are involved. One has the impression that an attempt will be made there to associate Russia with the term “genocide”. There is no shortage of unrealities in the West, no doubts about that.
Posted by: Konrad | Feb 9 2023 2:35 utc | 164
Posted by: Chimere | Feb 9 2023 0:14 utc | 141
from your politico.eu link:
But members of Ukraine’s armed forces, many of whom have expressed respect for Zaluzhnyi, were deeply disappointed by his support of the new law.
“It is very demotivating. This is such a striking contrast with Zaluzhnyi’s human- and leader-oriented ‘religion,’” said Eugenia Zakrevska, a human rights lawyer who enlisted in the war effort and is now a member of the 92nd Ivan Sirko Separate Mechanized Brigade. This was a pointed reference to an interview the commander-in-chief gave to the Economist in December, in which he said that unlike the Kremlin, the “religion” he and Ukraine practised was “to remain human in any situation.”
—-
i don’t know how much a hercule poirot, sigmund freud and karl marx combined one needs to be to glean from the barely concealed desperation in that article that something is up. the change in law shows that.
the law “strips them of their right to appeal.” “Previously, because courts adjudicated infractions on a case-by-case basis, some perpetrators were able to escape punishment for serious rule-breaking entirely”. “But soldiers, lawyers and human rights watchdogs have slammed the measures as an inappropriate and blunt instrument…”
what’s next, decimations? because the west has to defend itself against the subhuman kremlin unterbitches?
btw, as many know, the separation along religious lines imposed upon Ukraine is another proof how totally contrived and manipulated this conflict is. The Orthodox were all one. Until the forces of progress showed up.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 9 2023 2:40 utc | 165
fyi
‘The Crazy American’: How Col. Andy Milburn’s drunken antics torpedoed top US mercenary group Mozart in Ukraine
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/02/03/crazy-american-andy-milburns-drunken-mercenary-group/
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 9 2023 2:50 utc | 166
@ Et Tu | Feb 8 2023 14:56 utc | 2
Well, yeah. But, your follow-up made it worth it. 🙂
Posted by: natokraine | Feb 9 2023 2:50 utc | 167
” “..i don’t know. don’t underestimate the west. we shot down MH17 and rigged the investigation so as to blame russia…” rjb1.5@120
Nobody with any brains at all was convinced by the crude and deceitful tactics adopted to blame the Russians for shooting down MH17.
It was no more than a massive propaganda blitz combined with destruction of evidence on a large scale. It reached its climax in the Dutch “court’s” refusal to hear Russian evidence while accepting Kiev’s obvious fabrications.
Posted by: bevin | Feb 8 2023 23:27 utc | 133 ”
The bigger question is , why did Russia hand over the black boxes so quickly when it must have know the West would play the ” blame game ” ? Why not have experts open and examine them in Russia for everyone to know the contents ? Was Russia that naive ?
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 9 2023 2:57 utc | 168
Sorry but no genocide just Russian propaganda!!
Posted by: Roadblock | Feb 8 2023 20:30 utc | 83
That there wasn’t genocide or full ethnic cleansing wasn’t due to Ukraine not trying and preparing for this, but that the Donbass fighters were very successfully defending their people and keeping Ukrainian forces from controlling large parts of it, and thus preventing the civilians from being attacked, abused, killed or expelled.
Ukrainians stated their genocidal plans on TV shows where officials would talk about reducing the Donbass population by 1.5 million (I don’t remember the exact number but it was definitely over 1 million, maybe 2 million). And it is intent and putting that intent into attempt which does constitute genocide when combined that civilians were murdered when Ukrainian forces got their hands on them.
Ukraine was also preparing for a major ethnic cleansing, similar to the Croats’ ethnic cleaning in August 1995 where they expelled around 250,000 Croatian Serbs in 3 days.
Signs were there such as Ukrainian forces starting more intense bombings on Donbass in January 2022 and even OSCE admitted this. Yet OSCE spoke of ending their mission and preparing to leave around that time too, so shades of OSCE in Kosovo leaving just before NATO bombed.
Plus Russia found documents of a planned blitzkrieg attack set for early March. So Russia did thwart a major ethnic cleansing. U.S. had been training the Croats for months before their ethnic cleaning and had advisors on the ground during that attack on Serbs “Operation Storm”, US also jammed Croatian Serb radar and anti-aircraft defense.
U.S. had also just finished training Georgian troops before their attack on South Ossetia which caused 10s of thousands of people to flee to Russia.
But unlike in the Balkans, Russia decided to stop the Georgians and thus reversed that attack and stopped the ethnic cleansing that U.S. and Georgia planned.
Additionally, U.S. sent Ukraine chemical weapons of mass murder in December 2021 and the Pentagon had 46 gain of function bioweapons labs, including several near the border with Russia. One thing being studied was diseased carried by birds and other animals and insects from Ukraine to Russia. So hhmmm…
Posted by: MiniMo | Feb 9 2023 3:02 utc | 169
” It’s raining trolls today. The usual Russia-is-weak, Putin-shoud-have trolls have new little companions. They chat with each other in a corner of the bar and don’t bother anyone, it’s cute. There’s even a newbie who thinks he can give the recipe for beef bourguignon on a vegan site without being spotted.
Posted by: Leuk | Feb 8 2023 22:11 utc | 114 ”
Hear, hear. The Bar should only echo our already pre-drawn conclusions and we shouldn’t have to suffer any opposing opinions. I, for one, dont come here to have my thoughts challenged, I just need my pre-conceived theories backed up by identically thinking folks. Thank you for standing up to these alternate thinkers. Heathens, the lot of them !
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 9 2023 3:03 utc | 170
This is such a striking contrast with Zaluzhnyi’s human- and leader-oriented ‘religion,’
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 9 2023 2:40 utc | 165
Is this Hohol Diplomatese for “3rd rate nazi cult” ?
Posted by: Arganthonios | Feb 9 2023 3:38 utc | 171
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 9 2023 3:03 utc | 170
If the sort of “contribution” you’re advocating for wasn’t as easy to obtain as perusing any western MSM outlet whatsoever, you might have a point; but given that indeed they are, you don’t.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Feb 9 2023 3:44 utc | 172
The bigger question is , why did Russia hand over the black boxes so quickly when it must have know the West would play the ” blame game ” ? Why not have experts open and examine them in Russia for everyone to know the contents ? Was Russia that naive ?
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 9 2023 2:57 utc | 168
you are the classic slave with the massive inferiority complex, loving Germans and West no matter what they did to you people and blaming Russia and Russians for every thing, listen you buffoon , the Black Box was given to Malaysian authorities, they were forced to hand it over to the West, and the Malaysians were barred from investigation, after that when Malaysian Consulate General in Madagascar(Houssenaly Zahid Raza), refused to take the debris washed ashore , he was immediately assassinated, his body was riddled with heavy calibre machine-gun, now go and buy some German Dutch chocolate and feel you are not Untermensch.
Posted by: Grishka | Feb 9 2023 3:44 utc | 173
⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ #Chronicle of the Special Military Operation for 8 Feb 2023⚡️
🔹#Kursk Region:
▪️ The AFU shelled a power station in the village of #Tetkino. At least 8 arrivals were recorded. Two settlements, #Tetkino and Popovo-Lezhachi, were without electricity.
🔹#Starobelsk Direction:
▪️ In the #Kupyansk sector, Russian units supported by artillery continue to push through the enemy defence in #Sinkovka.
▪️ In the #Liman sector, Russian troops continue their offensive, reinforce their positions, as well as conduct reconnaissance of the enemy’s forward positions.
🔹#Lugansk People’s Republic:
▪️ The AFU terrorists shelled civilian targets in #Pisarevka and #Novodruzhesk. One civilian was killed and another wounded.
🔹#Bakhmut Sector:
▪️ Outside #Bakhmut (#Artyomovsk) fighting continues near Krasnaya Gora and #Paraskoviyevka, with Wagner Assault Squads consolidating success and expanding their area of control.
▪️ Russian forces continue fighting in #Bakhmut itself, steadily advancing in the city limits.
▪️ In addition, there are unconfirmed reports that the #Bakhmut – #Slavyansk highway has been cut.
🔹#Donetsk Direction (MAP):
▪️ In #Maryinka, Russian troops managed to break behind Druzhba Avenue and occupy the ruins of a school and muncipal buildings on the northern outskirts of the town.
➖ Ukrainian formations are trying to hold back the RF Armed Forces by shelling the eastern part of #Maryinka.
▪️ The enemy terrorists shelled populated areas of the #Donetsk agglomeration with barrel and rocket artillery. Residential buildings in the Petrovsky district of #Donetsk were hit, two civilians were killed.
🔹#Zaporozhye Direction:
▪️ Russian air defence shot down several AFU drones near# Berdyansk in #Zaporozhye region.
🔹#Kherson Direction on Southern Front:
▪️ Mutual artillery attacks continue in the #Kherson region, with Russian forces hitting enemy targets near #Kherson, #Antonovka and #Ivanovka.
➖ In turn, the Ukrainian terrorist formations shelled residential buildings and civilian infrastructure in Novaya Kakhovka.
Posted by: Down South | Feb 9 2023 3:49 utc | 174
Re: Posted by: anon2020 | Feb 8 2023 18:29 utc | 53
I guess it comes back to a simple equation.
Does Russia believe its interests are best served by projecting strength or alternatively, projecting weakness?!?
Russia is choosing on many of these issues to project weakness.
An interesting strategy – but Sun-Tzu did advocate for either depending on circumstances and goals……
Posted by: Julian | Feb 9 2023 3:50 utc | 175
🇵🇱🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇦Polish general gave a gloomy forecast for Ukraine(objective,interesting and deep analysis recommended to read)
Polish General Skshipchak said that Ukraine has no forces for an offensive
The Ukrainian army does not have the means for offensive actions, the situation is close to complete defeat, the former commander of the Polish ground forces, General Waldemar Skshipchak, said in an interview with the portal Wirtualna Polska.
“Some say that the AFU should counterattack. However, the Ukrainians have neither the forces nor the means for a counteroffensive <...> If the Ukrainian defense is broken through, the Russians will achieve their goal, and this is primarily the defeat of the Ukrainian army,” the military said.
Skshipchak noted that in such a difficult situation, Ukrainians can only defend themselves.
At the same time, Western military assistance, in his opinion, will not interfere with Russia’s plans. The breakthrough of Ukrainian positions will mean the liberation of the entire Eastern Ukraine and the final defeat of Kiev, he concluded.
Original version
“>https://wiadomosci.wp.pl/taki-cel-maja-rosjanie-atak-nastapi-w-ciagu-10-dni-6863624181512800a
https://t.me/azmilitary11/36705
Posted by: Down South | Feb 9 2023 3:52 utc | 176
🇷🇺⚔️🇺🇦🇫🇷🇩🇪Zelensky called the “Minsk agreements” a concession to Russia
According to Zelensky, in the Minsk agreements “there was a deliberate mistake that was not eliminated”
Zelensky believes that the Minsk agreements signed in 2015 were a concession to Russia. He made this statement in an interview with Le Figaro newspaper published on Wednesday.
“I don’t want to offend anyone, but the Minsk agreements, seen as a way to calm the situation, were actually a concession to Russia. <...> I told Emmanuel [Macron] and [Angel] Merkel and [Vladimir] To Putin, when we were in Normandy [meaning the Normandy format], that the Minsk agreements cannot be implemented in this form,” he said.
According to Zelensky, “they were surprised and a little angry that he questioned this process immediately after his election as head of state.” “But here’s what I told them: I returned from the front line, I visited all the villages on this front line. The Minsk agreements cannot be implemented,” he said.
According to Zelensky, in the Minsk agreements “there was a deliberate mistake that was not eliminated.” “They did not include the issue of Crimea. And when I asked the Europeans when we were going to raise this issue, they said that not here and not now. <...> I could never talk about Crimea in Normandy. It was a real problem,” Zelensky believes.
https://t.me/azmilitary11/36712
Posted by: Down South | Feb 9 2023 3:53 utc | 177
Posted by: Grishka | Feb 9 2023 3:44 utc | 173
Please, comrade, I can only get so erect <3
Posted by: Arganthonios | Feb 9 2023 3:56 utc | 178
🇺🇦 🇷🇺 Ukraine Braces for Grisly Russian Offensive in the East
Russia is sending more bodies. Ukraine doesn’t have enough. And the tanks won’t arrive in time.
⬛️ “We expect in the next 10 days a new, huge invasion,” a Ukrainian military official, speaking on condition of anonymity to talk about intelligence matters, told Foreign Policy. Over the weekend, Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov said that he expects a surge in Russian operations around the upcoming anniversary of the invasion on Feb. 24.
⬛️ Russia has also begun arming up and digging in for a coming offensive. The Ukrainian military estimates that Russia already has 1,800 tanks, 3,950 armored vehicles, 2,700 artillery systems, 810 Soviet-era multiple-rocket-launch systems such as Grad and Smerch, 400 fighter jets, and 300 helicopters ready for the new wave of attacks, the official said.
⬛️ Karolina Hird, a Russia analyst with the Institute for the Study Of War, said there has been a continued trickle of reports that suggest mobilization efforts are quietly continuing. “We’re seeing continued reports of people getting mobilization summonses or, for example, employers, enterprises, getting lists of employees that they need to send to the military registration office.”
⬛️ “I don’t know how we’re going to withstand this counteroffensive. It’s going to be extremely difficult,” said Sasha Ustinova, a Ukrainian lawmaker. “We don’t have enough rounds, or I mean—anything. The tanks are going to be later. Everything is going to be later. By the time they send us Abrams, we will already have seen how the Russian counteroffensive goes.”
“>https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/02/08/ukraine-russia-counteroffensive-abrams-tanks-putin-war/
Posted by: Down South | Feb 9 2023 4:01 utc | 179
🇵🇱 🇺🇦 🇷🇺 Operation “DAGGER”:
Lieutenant Colonel Maciej Korowaj presents a hypothetical course of a probable Russian offensive on Ukraine. – “I developed it based on the RUS operational methodology. Given the complexity of the topic, I have limited myself to the key issues. The thread shows the course of the entire operation in (4) stages.
🔴 Minimum parameters of fighting in the auxiliary direction in the first stage of the operation RUS fire superiority 7:1 attack up to 10 km/day. Main direction II and III stage 5:1 up to 15 km/day. At the key points of the 10:1 operation. Average in operation 3:1 and up to 10km/day.
1️⃣ 1st Stage (up to 3 days) hitting the 1st throw in the auxiliary direction from the east to the direction of Kiev. Pressure in the northern direction (Regional Grouping of Forces) and in the Donbass. RUS achieve strategic surprise as to the strength and direction of the strike.
🔴 The topic of strategic redeployment is strongly emphasized by RUS and regularly trained, whether in own or allied exercises. An example is, for example, “ZAPAD 2017” and the annual exercise of the crypt railway troops. “ECHELON”.
🔴 Strategic or operational surprise is achieved by RUS through tgz. “Żabi Skok” of the main forces of the Operational Union in the direction of the strike no later than 3 days before the start of the operation. 1st throw units up to 24h for 2nd throw units 72h. The third flush is about 2-3 weeks.
🔴 The OC’s entry into combat is smooth. A few days or a week before the strike, elements of the reconnaissance and forward command system are deployed along with support units. Nevertheless, it is difficult to clearly state the intention of action. They often maneuver or demonstrate.
Image
2️⃣ The 2nd stage of the operation (5-6 days) is the entry of the 2nd wave. Continued attack towards Kiev. At the same time, an attack from the south flanking the main SZU forces in Donbass.
3️⃣ The 3rd stage of the operation (day 10-12) is the entry of all the forces of the 2nd echelon simultaneously with the planned change of the direction of the main attack from east to south and the continuation of the attack from south to north. At the same time, strikes are made on the Dnieper crossings.
4️⃣ 4th stage of the operation (day 20-30) the main objective is to capture the key area by the forces of the 3rd echelon and the separated 2nd echelon. At that time, the forces of the first echelon should restore combat readiness and move to the operation reserve. RUS in this case will retain the operational initiative.
🔴 Taking into account the changes in the RUS command and previous actions such as: reducing artillery fire, forcing UKR to disperse air defense units over critical infrastructure, “disappearance” of many select units from the front – something is afoot. If you like it, pass it on.”
“>https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1613628338748198940.html
Posted by: Down South | Feb 9 2023 4:02 utc | 180
At the beginning of the war, we insided that everything would be demolished and everything would be banned, but in Kyiv they are already demolishing a monument to Chkalov and then to Vatutin. As early as April 9, we insided that the monument to Catherine II in Odessa would be demolished.
As the source explains, at that moment they did not talk about this, since Bankova worked to inspire and instill in Ukrainians an absolute hatred for Russians. To do this, the masses were fed stuffing that the Russians massively raped women, cut children, looted (although there are hundreds of video facts that the Ukrainians themselves were doing this).
They spoke half the truth. For example: the Russians are shooting at the garden (the fact that the terrorist defense was located in the garden was usually hushed up), or the Russians are shooting at residential buildings, the fact that there were firing points in the houses or there were tanks / artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine under the windows was usually hushed up.
In a fit of emotions, a person does not turn on the brain and rational thinking; it is easier to deceive him in order to use him for his own purposes. This is what the functionaries of the Office of the President and Zelensky took advantage of.
All this was done for one simple purpose, to raise the degree of hatred for the Russians. By the way, this resulted in the fact that the Ukrainian nationalists themselves began to publicly kill Russian prisoners on cameras, but as soon as a scandal arose and they called from the West, they immediately covered the topic in the media.
At that moment, many believed and went to die.
But the time will come and many will learn a lot and many will have a clear disappointment.
Don’t be an instrument of someone else’s game… Think
Posted by: Down South | Feb 9 2023 4:07 utc | 181
On the original Hersh thread, this was Posted by: Kit Klarenberg | Feb 8 2023 16:44 utc | 59
>>. . .describing a scenario implying a not insignificant paper trail being created and a large number of people being in the loop at every stage. Too much risk attached to that. . .
This is a ridiculous arguments – that something “didn’t happen because too many people would know about it”.
So what? That it will leak? Well that’s exactly what happened. Not to mention that the counter examples are so obvious, it’s ridiculou! Some specific ones just of the top of my head:
During the Cold War, there were dozens of nuclear weapons in the Nike Hercules anti-aircraft defenses around every major American city. Thousands of US Army people served in these defenses and yet kept it absolutely secret for years.
Also, for years there were many people throughout the U.S., in the U.S. military (USAF), government, and contractor companies, which knew about the specific global surveillance programs and snooping on average and all Americans. This was going on for years, involved lots and lots of people, including huge high tech companies, hundreds of people, possibly thousands, yet it was kept completely secret until Edward Snowden came along to shine some light into the spiders web.
Similarly, there must have been Tens of thousands of military personnel, embedded journalists, contractors etc, knew what has happening in Iraq but only one, Manning, had the guts to leak it. And how many personnel were there in Abu Ghraib who kept their mouths shut until Mr. Hersh broke the story?
So the idea that something that may have happened is not deliberate or a “conspiracy” theory must be wrong because lots of people would have to have know about it and would have talked, is clear logical nonsense.
More generally, the obvious example is that every organisation on earth, govt depts, intelligence, large corporate, military etc, literally have millions of employees. The vast majority of which, (well over the 99.99% range) rarely have people blathering confidential information everywhere. That .001 that does leak or whistleblow is usually a power play, or someone who, for whatever psychological reason, has simply had enough and goes public. But the staggeringly large majority of people in those organisation don’t.
So this entire trope of “too many people would have to be involved so it can’t be true”, is unadorned nonsense.
Posted by: Kyle Koffler | Feb 9 2023 4:17 utc | 182
All world leaders wield no power on the event’s that affect the heard. They are told what to do. Who they report to who pays them and empowers them, makes no difference to me. They all lie all day everyday. No regard for immutable human truths, the ruling mob obscured them with distractions. Worthless commercialism simple opinion polemics to get the nervous system going and to register an emotion is a game to keep you engaged that it holds some meaning. Only a fool thinks he can control other people. We should learn to control ourselves first.
Posted by: Dingo | Feb 9 2023 4:25 utc | 183
On New Physical Principles in Russian Weaponry
On a few threads this issue of Russian weapons tech used in Ukraine (esp the hypersonics) has come up and been, IMO, misunderstood. If I recall correctly, I think Norwegian, amongst a number of others brought this up but I haven’t seen an explanantion. So perhaps this might help just as a clarification:
Fundamentally, this is a translation interpretation issue. They do not mean new laws of physics!
When the Russians say “New principles” you need to read that as “new technology”. If they say “New physical principles” they mean breakthroughs in new engineering methodologies. New “tech” and new “engineering” are radically different things and follow entirely different processes.
As a rough guide, you first get new science, followed by new engineering and then new tech follows. In most cases, this level of new SET (SciEngTech) tends to be, at the minimum a game changer (mobile phones), or can profoundly change the very basis of civilisation – as the pill did when women were freed from their biology.
In general, new tech is usually an upgrade to existing stuff: to existing weapons, the Russian S500’s for example, or newer iphone models say with greater features. The hypersonic missiles are due to new engineering. That refers to the discovery, creation and utility of newer materials such as the new ceramic/metal amalgams that constitute the body of the hypersonic weaponry.
And hence new tech followed, meaning the amalgamation of these new engineering methods into actual products and new processes and hence hypersonic missiles follow. New eng combined with new tech become game changers.
Another example: Stealth was theoretically discovered (the mathematics of it) by the Soviets. But it was the new materials created in bulk by the US that allows them to build their stealth aircraft en masse. The Russians, despite discovering the theory first, didn’t do that.
Keep in mind doing clever stuff in a lab with multiple degree qualified sci/eng researchers is different to doing it en masse in a factory where your workers do not have said degrees in sci/eng.
A generic example of failure is superconductors. This is new science. But no new (mass based) eng or tech came from it although by now everyone knows the science.
Problem is no-one knows how to do it in bulk at room temps. So new science, but no new engineering. And therefore no new tech based on superconductors available in bulk. If this ever happens, it wouldn’t just be a game changer, it would be as significant as the discovery of electricity.
Similarly, it’s the failure of the US/West/Japan to fully develop new materials that underpins their failure in the hypersonic regime. Note that it’s the new engineering step they fail. Building the missiles (new tech) once they have the materials wouldn’t be a big deal for the US.
ps: Note that you can have so called “new tech” without new eng, your updated iPhone for example. You can also also have new eng without new sci, newer materials are created all the time these days but fail to make it out of the lab.
So that, in a nutshell, is what the Russians are referring to when they say “new principles” or “new physical principles”.
I hope this helps.
Posted by: Kyle Koffler | Feb 9 2023 4:25 utc | 184
Posted by: Julian | Feb 9 2023 3:50 utc | 175
In a nutshell, Sun-Tzu said when weak , project strength, and when in actual fact strong, act weak. So you tell me ,is Russia projecting strength or weakness, because I don’t know?
It seems to me that unless this is all 5D chess ,Russia is hamstrung ,and we have a stand-off that could go on for a very long time. Europe needs to go cold or hungry very quickly or Russia needs to win militarily with big arrow movements or Russia’s goose is cooked .
Yes, I have read all the reasons of why Russia is winning , but I must be faint-hearted or sceptical and incisive ‘cause I just don’t “feel “ the win.
Posted by: Brother Ma | Feb 9 2023 4:28 utc | 185
Some former senator and general believed Moscow lost over one thousand soldiers in a day.
https://twitter.com/Ojeda4America/status/1623040144805662733
Posted by: Irene | Feb 9 2023 4:45 utc | 186
” Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 9 2023 2:57 utc | 168
you are the classic slave with the massive inferiority complex, loving Germans and West no matter what they did to you people and blaming Russia and Russians for every thing, listen you buffoon , the Black Box was given to Malaysian authorities, they were forced to hand it over to the West, and the Malaysians were barred from investigation, after that when Malaysian Consulate General in Madagascar(Houssenaly Zahid Raza), refused to take the debris washed ashore , he was immediately assassinated, his body was riddled with heavy calibre machine-gun, now go and buy some German Dutch chocolate and feel you are not Untermensch.
Posted by: Grishka | Feb 9 2023 3:44 utc | 173 ”
Someone that starts off an unsolicited argument by name calling probably shouldn’t talk about inferiority complexes. I’m sure you drive a really big car, don’t ?
Additionally, Mr. eloquence , the argument that Russia didnt know what would happen to those boxes is completely and utterly assine, especially after decades of ZioAmerican subterfuge. Even school children know the US can never be trusted. At this point, anytime Russia claims to be surprised, stunned, side swiped, was lied to, was too trusting, believed their partners, has to follow some arcane law, or any other plethora of excuses I laugh out loud.
In fact, I’m laughing at you right now for having no logical deduction skills nor any anger control. You should work on that and your Putin cult propensities . Kisses sweet heart.
Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 9 2023 4:55 utc | 187
That plane was MH370. The search off the west coast of Australia was a bit sad. As suggested two options a) shot down by mistake as war games occurring in the near vicinity similar to the one off the US coast or b) flying quiet to Diego Garcia in a potential terrorist act and shot down deliberately. (There is a rumour that there were people on board that had to be negated. Not sure about this).
Very early on fishers near an island in the Indian Ocean reported a jet with Malaysian colours flying in low overhead. Just as the first news out on MH17 from a Spanish air traffic controller working in Ukraine reported two jets following.
@ SG | Feb 8 2023 14:25 utc | 301
There is a triangle shaped world map available with minimal distortions… Yet I do believe, you have got a valid point in regards to 15% reduction over the middle part of RU’s territory. However basic world map still created enormous distortions of Russian Federation in terms of it’s territorial land mass, making it almost as twice as big…
https://www.princeton.edu/news/2021/02/15/princeton-astrophysicists-re-imagine-world-map-designing-less-distorted-radically
https://www.discovery.com/science/AuthaGraph-World-Accurate-Map
Posted by: Alex Vadim | Feb 9 2023 5:40 utc | 189
The press junket was exactly like when an actor embarks to promote a movie. It’s very evident very staged very awkward. By the end of this ordeal the word democracy will be worn thru onion skin thin and with teary eyes, seen for what it is, fascism.
Posted by: Dingo | Feb 9 2023 6:02 utc | 190
Post 161, Mjh.
Thanks alot for that link. So Ukraine remained almost evenly divided in winter of 2013/14, half the country agreeing with Yanukovych’s, difficult, decision for continued harmony with Russia rather than complete absorption into, increasingly, russophobic EU. No overwhelming groundswell to torpedo democracy. The chaos, The West, unleashed on fragile, fractured Ukraine is unforgivable. And given the lessons of Yugosalavia, they knew exactly the dangerous potency of the flaming cocktail they’d ignited.
Posted by: Stormwarning | Feb 9 2023 6:11 utc | 191
The faithlessness (nedogovornoposobnost’) of the owners and rulers of the West and their overseers most notoriously exemplified by the eastward extension of NATO and the Minsk agreements remind me of an observation of Gibbon’s on Genseric, King of the Vandals:
“He subscribed a solemn treaty, with the hope of deriving some advantage from the term of its continuance, and the moment of its violation.”
Posted by: John Kennard | Feb 9 2023 6:20 utc | 192
Posted by: MiniMo | Feb 9 2023 3:02 utc | 169
Fair enough. I thank you for the calm non judgmental response.
That is what free speech is all
Thanks
Roadblock
Posted by: Roadblock | Feb 9 2023 6:34 utc | 193
@Sektion2B | Feb 8 2023 23:48 utc | 140
Yes, that has been my opinion since the event. Also remember the Donbass stories of MH17 victims on the ground smelling of formaline….
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 9 2023 6:42 utc | 194
Thence….my belief is that some months ago NATO switched strategy and began a covert massing of NATO Forces… mostly U S forces in the bordering countries of Ukraine
Agreed – the open question is how long will it take for NATOland to a) build up enough stores for a massive counter offensive b) train the various militaries ?
My wild guess is at least 12 months maybe 18 months. Recall we spent 2 years prepping for D-Day. This puts the NATO counteroffensive jump off circa late 2024 or early 2025. I’m thinking 2025 mainly because the build up required in monumental.
Posted by: Exile | Feb 9 2023 7:00 utc | 195
Monkey Werx Video captured evidence of a Norwegian Navy P8 sub hunter surveillance plane in the sky above the Nord Stream explosion site in the early morning hours of Sept 26 2022 between 2am and 5am.
Hersh laid out the general who and how of the Nord Stream sabotage plot but it’s all tied to one source.
Great start but it needs verification from multiple independent sources.
And it might be starting to come.
Independent evidence video may confirm key part of Sy Hersh’s report on the attack on Nord Stream 2:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/02/independent-evidence-video-confirms-key-part-sy-hershs-report-attack-nord-stream-2/
“Ever heard of Monkey Werx? He hosts a You Tube channel that focuses on tracking U.S. civilian and military flights. Sounds pretty innocuous and boring. No more. Turns out that Monkey Werx provided a video report last September (September 30th to be precise) that confirms part of Sy Hersh’s account of the destruction of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.”
Monkey Werx link: https://www.monkeywerxus.com/the-werx
Posted by: Irish | Feb 9 2023 7:03 utc | 196
@ Amish Fighter Pilot | Feb 8 2023 15:11 utc | 5
Rude awakening is in progress, due to inertial nature of humanity… The world is about to be drastically reshaped… Nobody is in control any longer – nobody. Uncertainty is the new black, where whites are non-existent any longer…
Posted by: Alex Vadim | Feb 9 2023 7:03 utc | 197
Every time the z man flies out to meet a western leader, things are not going well in his country. That’s the trigger that will tell you the balance of the conflict. Classical conditioning for the z man.
Posted by: Dingo | Feb 9 2023 7:06 utc | 198
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 8 2023 20:50 utc | 87
It’s nice to see that once again someone doesn’t understand what anti-establishment refers to.
Anti-establishment means being against the status quo, not not being part of the ruling class or a beneficiary of the status quo.
In fact, Lenin, Trotsky and Mao all belonged to the ruling class and were beneficiaries of the status quo.
Putin, Erdogan and Xi are even just centrists/maintainers of the status quo in their own countries and are only being discredited because their own country’s interests conflict with those of the West.
And Trump does oppose the status quo and oppose centrists, only in a direction radical liberals don’t want to change.
It is certainly nice to see someone who feels that an idea like duodecimal, which has been thoroughly studied by science historically, is only bad or worthless for discussion because it opposes the status quo, which reflects its passion for defending the status quo.
https://pubs.nctm.org/view/journals/mt/37/8/article-p365.xml
In fact, the Mayans used duodecimal.
Trump has mainly changed U.S. foreign policy: from a free trade encirclement network against China to a tariff war against China, temporarily alienating U.S. allies, and postponing an attack on Russia.
His inability to change U.S. policy illustrates the hypocrisy of the liberal democratic system, which means that even if Sanders or Corbyn were elected, they would largely be powerless to do anything about it.
Posted by: Colin | Feb 9 2023 7:12 utc | 199
@Kyle Koffler | Feb 9 2023 4:25 utc | 184
On New Physical Principles in Russian Weaponry
On a few threads this issue of Russian weapons tech used in Ukraine (esp the hypersonics) has come up and been, IMO, misunderstood. If I recall correctly, I think Norwegian, amongst a number of others brought this up but I haven’t seen an explanantion.
Thank you, that is very interesting. Indeed you are correct that I asked the question some time ago about what was meant by the “New Physical Principles”. Well spotted, and I am surprised you remember it.
I don’t speak Russian so I can’t really have an opinion on the translation issue. However, “New Physical Principles” seems rather specific and precise to me, so to read “New principles” as “new technology” seems odd.
I am interested in what is meant in practical applications of “New principles”. It seems to me you imply that it equates to hypersonic missiles. It may be so, but their existence were publicly announced in 2018, so talking about “New principles” and meaning hypersonic missiles seems unsatisfacory. I still wonder if there is something more.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 9 2023 7:17 utc | 200