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February 8, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-33
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Hot off the press. Enjoy: Posted by: Et Tu | Feb 8 2023 14:49 utc | 1 LOL should have just scrolled down first past the China post i guess… Posted by: Et Tu | Feb 8 2023 14:56 utc | 2 The Seymour Hersh story on the pipeline destruction indicates that someone in D.C. leaked the details. This means there is definite dissension within the ranks in Washington. There is no way that Hersh would have fabricated all of this information. Norway is now is big trouble with Russia because of the key role it played in this affair. I wonder if some problems may develop with the Norwegian gas pipelines. Posted by: HH | Feb 8 2023 15:05 utc | 3 The escalator is going up, up, up Posted by: upstater | Feb 8 2023 15:06 utc | 4 The general public seems pretty lost on what is actually going on in Ukraine but if getting savvy on these issues, that’s not hard to see why Kiev couldn’t win. That’s also not hard to see that Washington created this entire conflict at the end of second world war by supporting banderites in an effort to create or worsen problems for Moscow in the post-war period. Most notably was its sabotaging of collective farms on a massive famine. Stepan Bandera and his friends were known for killing Poles, Russians, Greeks, Tatars and anyone else they wouldn’t like. These people’s favorite method of clearing villages of life was to round people up and beat them to death with hammers in a big crowd. They completely cleared whole villages in Poland like this. Posted by: Amish Fighter Pilot | Feb 8 2023 15:11 utc | 5 Posted by: HH | Feb 8 2023 15:05 utc | 3 Posted by: chunga | Feb 8 2023 15:14 utc | 6 UPosted by: Resail | Feb 8 2023 15:22 utc | 7 Posted by: Chris | Feb 8 2023 15:28 utc | 7 Kievan regime wouldn’t hide on its plans to denuclearize and balkanize Russia anymore… Posted by: Vie Rose | Feb 8 2023 15:32 utc | 8 Zelensky has been addressing the UK parliament today. Posted by: Engineer-John | Feb 8 2023 15:33 utc | 9 In other news: Posted by: Comandante | Feb 8 2023 15:42 utc | 10 From the Hersh thread(‘Twas OT) re claimed Ukraine AFU CW use Clip … @11 Meeting King Charles is supposed to be good optics. Going to London before Brussels maybe not so smart. Posted by: dh | Feb 8 2023 15:50 utc | 12 His first trip should have been Brussels, not Washington. The fact that his second, well, third if including his brief one in Poland, trip is London and not Brussels is even more telling. Posted by: Talia | Feb 8 2023 16:00 utc | 13 Charles can give Zelly some organic gardening tips, pointers on remembering what day it is or advise on exercising verbal restraint when using a leaky fountain pen. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 8 2023 16:02 utc | 14 Talia @14 Basically he’s saying ‘look how much support I’m getting from London! Come on EU….where are those planes!’ Posted by: dh | Feb 8 2023 16:05 utc | 15 @11 Meeting King Charles Posted by: jamesh | Feb 8 2023 16:14 utc | 16 Posted by: Talia | Feb 8 2023 16:00 utc | 14 Posted by: Sektion2B | Feb 8 2023 16:18 utc | 17 Olivier Kempf is pessimistic about Kiev’s victory… https://twitter.com/RTLFrance/status/1623226518481534977 Posted by: Excelle | Feb 8 2023 16:18 utc | 18 Outraged | Feb 8 2023 15:43 utc | 12 Posted by: rk | Feb 8 2023 16:23 utc | 19 jamesh @17 Clumsy move IMO. I don’t know who sets these things up but somebody asked Charles to meet Zelensky and made it hard for him to refuse. I expect the photo of the occasion will go down well in Kiev. Posted by: dh | Feb 8 2023 16:26 utc | 20 Note: MOD Clobber List, averaged over the past 349 days of the SMO, so far, per day(24hrs): The leader of the Ukrainian neo-Nazi’s president Zelensky, receives a standing ovation in the English parliament today as the the MPs clap like seals as he speaks of victory for Ukraine in the future. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 8 2023 16:46 utc | 22 LoL Posted by: Comandante | Feb 8 2023 16:49 utc | 23 Yawn. Most blogs had posters who’d figured most of it out; Baltops 22, check, Norwegians or Baltic states, check, US operation, check, remote detonation, check. Hersh just sexes up the story with Clanceyesque prose, ‘no one could have guessed from it’s modest exterior that….’ and the near obligatory quotable quotes. The only thing it does confirm is that the West repeatedly lies about any aspect of the Ukrainian conflict. Posted by: Milites | Feb 8 2023 16:49 utc | 24 jamesh | Feb 8 2023 16:14 utc | 17 Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Feb 8 2023 16:51 utc | 25 I couldn’t stand to watch all that nauseating spectacle in Parliament,a full blown Circus of self indulgent bullshit. Posted by: Englishman | Feb 8 2023 16:51 utc | 26 Still winning the “Battle of the Headlines” in Europe and North America. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 8 2023 16:53 utc | 27 Re Mr. Z’s visit to the Bank of Long-done, they are already talking about providing submarines. I guess tactical nukes are next. The fun never ends or rather it ends with ze Big Glow. Posted by: Sektion2B | Feb 8 2023 16:55 utc | 28 … I expect the photo of the occasion will go down well in Kiev. Posted by: anon2020 | Feb 8 2023 17:00 utc | 29 hoping to get some views =) Posted by: Sakabato | Feb 8 2023 17:03 utc | 30 “Using a crowned geek for propaganda purposes.” Posted by: jamesh | Feb 8 2023 17:08 utc | 31 #3 : Posted by: Nanker | Feb 8 2023 17:13 utc | 32 If I wanted a standing ovation from Congress or Parliament badly enough, I’d do it the same way Zelturdsky did: first, I’d have to become a lying murdering swindler, that’s a given, then I’d go to the lawmakers, piss on them all and call it ‘yook’ rain, and that’s when I’d get a standing ovation. Oh, and a flood of money for the laundry. Posted by: Dalit | Feb 8 2023 17:13 utc | 33 One of the regular panelists on “Sixty Minutes” then faced the cameras directly and said that Russia’s nuclear doctrine is under revision in light of these aggressive plans being aired in the United States, so that Russia is headed towards a policy of ‘preventive’ tactical nuclear strikes, similar to what the United States has. Moreover, if Ukraine targets Crimea and heartland Russia, then Russia will respond according to plans now being laid down. These plans foresee counter strikes against U.S military installations in Europe and in the Continental United States using hypersonic missiles. The panelist calls for this threat of counter strikes in Europe and the US to be made public and explicit, so that no one is in doubt about what to expect from the Kremlin. Posted by: jgalt | Feb 8 2023 17:16 utc | 34 After following this SMO since its start, I have the feeling that Putin is handicapped by a reluctance (for various reasons) to forcefully pursue this war. His half-hearted approach to this war is encouraging the enemies of Russia. Posted by: bluesolent | Feb 8 2023 17:17 utc | 35 @ Posted by: HH | Feb 8 2023 15:05 utc | 3 Posted by: jared | Feb 8 2023 17:20 utc | 36 @ Posted by: bluesolent | Feb 8 2023 17:17 utc | 36 Posted by: jared | Feb 8 2023 17:29 utc | 37 Hints of where the battlefield might be going: Posted by: anon2020 | Feb 8 2023 17:42 utc | 38 So much news coming in about how corrupt the West is and has been. Yet, the Western peoples think that God is right on their iniquitous side. Posted by: young | Feb 8 2023 17:42 utc | 39 Not sure whether Johnson is coked up or simply thoroughly on Z’s payroll but he is beyond redemption. Sunak is like King Charles – weak and characterless. Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Feb 8 2023 17:43 utc | 40 Sakabato @31 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 8 2023 17:54 utc | 41 Posted by: anon2020 | Feb 8 2023 17:42 utc | 39 Posted by: young | Feb 8 2023 18:00 utc | 42 jgalt@35 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 8 2023 18:02 utc | 43 The prolonging of this war will result in more casualties Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Feb 8 2023 18:03 utc | 44 anon2020@39 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 8 2023 18:07 utc | 45 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64569598 Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 8 2023 18:13 utc | 46 Originally published in the Russian daily newspaper Vzglyad, and translated by a Socialist in Canada Posted by: bevin | Feb 8 2023 18:13 utc | 47
Problem is, that is also NATO’s Plan B. If they can’t have Ukraine, they will hand it to Russia in the most ruined condition possible. Ukrainian’s tactics with respect to the use of the physical infrastructure of the cities they are “defending” leaves little doubt that this is a consciously pursued objective.
You don’t displace them, you bypass and encircle them. Then they will come out on their own.
There was absolutely no need for that. Posted by: shadowbanned | Feb 8 2023 18:17 utc | 48 “There is a problem with essentially all liberals and most formerly genuine leftists…ideology. Ideological perspectives tend to adumbrate and obscure any acute realization of the massive power of BIG money over governments, corporations and most other institutions throughout the Western Imperium. As the MoA tradition emanates from the left, many posters here simply cannot accommodate money power with their ideological predilections…” aristodemos@44 Posted by: bevin | Feb 8 2023 18:18 utc | 49 While Seymour’s article came out…the Italian language newspaper Corriere della Sera ran an article from the former Italian president declaring that 911 was an inside job by CIA/Mossad. The Western Media is a propaganda arm of the powers that be…then the narrative is being manipulated to their ends. To destroy the United States…and Europe…..and everything? What sort of Phoenix is about to ride from the ashes I wonder. On side note… Zelensky is just a puppet…an actor just like sleepy Joe…but the indicators of rampant drug abuse is apperent in his actions…speech .. demeanor and dress. I bet if he had a house the lawn would never be cut and the curtains and blinds would always be closed…. probably pure uncut blow flown in by diplomatic pouch….Anyways I suspect some major changes in the wind very soon. Posted by: Joe | Feb 8 2023 18:22 utc | 50 Republicofscotland no. 23 Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Feb 8 2023 18:23 utc | 51 Posted by: jared | Feb 8 2023 17:29 utc | 38 Posted by: anon2020 | Feb 8 2023 18:29 utc | 52 There is a problem with essentially all liberals and most formerly genuine leftists…ideology. Ideological perspectives tend to adumbrate and obscure any acute realization of the massive power of BIG money over governments, corporations and most other institutions throughout the Western Imperium. As the MoA tradition emanates from the left, many posters here simply cannot accommodate money power with their ideological predilections. Posted by: Arganthonios | Feb 8 2023 18:34 utc | 53 The Hersch Nordstream 2 story was surely an open secret among top echelons of the MSM which was “recruited” to not inquire further until the “right time.” Maybe now’s the right time, because it makes Biden look decisive. In any case, the MSM, as a collective, is no different than a WWII propaganda reel when it comes to such serious matters of state. Posted by: Ludovic | Feb 8 2023 18:40 utc | 54 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 8 2023 18:07 utc | 46 Posted by: anon2020 | Feb 8 2023 18:46 utc | 55 (Surely the British aren’t stupid enough to think they are “exceptional”, or that the US won’t ultimately regard them as Ukrainian-grade cannon fodder when the time comes? Or are they.) Posted by: Arganthonios | Feb 8 2023 18:47 utc | 56 The only thing it does confirm is that the West repeatedly lies about any aspect of the Ukrainian conflict. Posted by: Mary | Feb 8 2023 18:50 utc | 57 To me the conduct of the war suggests that the Russians perceive it as advantageous to keep a grinding going. The so called Ukrainian “defenses” do not explain it. Posted by: bottle | Feb 8 2023 18:50 utc | 58 @Sakabato, §31: Posted by: John Marks | Feb 8 2023 18:56 utc | 59 Russia’s authorities have prepared new support measures for volunteers. Now they will be able to receive two pensions for wounds, disability and other compensation. Posted by: Derek Henry | Feb 8 2023 18:57 utc | 60 @ shadowbanned | Feb 8 2023 18:17 utc | 49 Posted by: Jerr | Feb 8 2023 19:01 utc | 61 Some compare the conflict in Ukraine with trench warfare in WWI … for one party to the conflict, certainly not the other … Posted by: young | Feb 8 2023 18:00 utc | 43 Posted by: anon2020 | Feb 8 2023 19:05 utc | 63 Option 4: Exchange it into another currency with somebody who wants Roubles. Posted by: Derek Henry | Feb 8 2023 19:11 utc | 64 So, yeah. The US carried out a no-shit act of war against Russia last year when they blew-up Nordstream (with the help of the Norwegians). Posted by: Monos | Feb 8 2023 19:11 utc | 65
What you are watching right now is what a hypothetical US invasion of Japan in 1945 would have looked like. But with the additional restriction that the air force can’t be used. Posted by: shadowbanned | Feb 8 2023 19:15 utc | 66
The US and the UK carried out multiple no-shit acts of war last year: Posted by: shadowbanned | Feb 8 2023 19:22 utc | 67
The US and the UK carried out multiple no-shit acts of war last year: Posted by: shadowbanned | Feb 8 2023 19:22 utc | 68 What hilarious and so, so, funny. Is the West brain boxes think they can stop Russia’s new support measures for volunteers. Now they will be able to receive two pensions for wounds, disability and other compensation. Stop monthly payments to widows of servicemen. Stop additional funding for additional payments to medical workers in the Russian Armed Forces and other servicemen who provide care to the wounded. Stop investment projects to modernize enterprises working for the Russian Armed Forces. Posted by: Derek Henry | Feb 8 2023 19:24 utc | 69 The West think when you walk up to the turnstile of a music concert you walk through take your seat then they issue you the ticket. Posted by: Derek Henry | Feb 8 2023 19:34 utc | 71
This king identifies as (and transitioned to) a Tampax since long time ago. Posted by: Ricardo Ramirez | Feb 8 2023 19:41 utc | 72 Washington wants Kiev to return lost territories, as range of military supplies to Ukraine is changing – US Secretary of State Blinken. Posted by: rk | Feb 8 2023 19:51 utc | 73 The escalator is going up, up, up Posted by: Exile | Feb 8 2023 19:56 utc | 74 Posted by: bluesolent | Feb 8 2023 17:17 utc | 36 Posted by: Colin | Feb 8 2023 20:08 utc | 75 Colin | Feb 8 2023 20:08 utc | 75 Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Feb 8 2023 20:10 utc | 76 MSM meets magical realism: Posted by: Sektion2B | Feb 8 2023 20:10 utc | 77 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 8 2023 18:07 utc | 46 Posted by: Colin | Feb 8 2023 20:12 utc | 78 Posted by: shadowbanned | Feb 8 2023 19:15 utc | 67 Posted by: alek_a | Feb 8 2023 20:15 utc | 79 Posted by: rk | Feb 8 2023 19:51 utc | 73 Posted by: alek_a | Feb 8 2023 20:19 utc | 80 @Posted by: Joe | Feb 8 2023 18:22 utc | 51 Posted by: Et Tu | Feb 8 2023 20:20 utc | 81 A flag to the U.S. congress. A helmet to the King. This joker has no optical commercial value left. When he visits the rarified self appointed aristocracy at the EU, he should bring a couple of planes filled with the bodies of the young men exterminated due to lunacy. Does this actor ever change sweater? Posted by: Dingo | Feb 8 2023 20:26 utc | 82 For me the pivotal question has always been “who started the war “ ?? If the Ukraine’s were indeed committing “ genocide” then Russia had a right to try and protect their people. The problem is that there was no genocide!!! Posted by: Roadblock | Feb 8 2023 20:30 utc | 83 Feb 8 2023 19:15 utc | 67 Posted by: paddy | Feb 8 2023 20:30 utc | 84 “That is just how the Russians intend to bleed Ukraine of men and disintegrate the societal structure” Posted by: Nanker | Feb 8 2023 20:45 utc | 86 Colin | Feb 8 2023 20:08 utc | 75 Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 8 2023 20:50 utc | 87 Real wars are a really strange thing in these days Posted by: Macpott | Feb 8 2023 20:52 utc | 88 @bottle | Feb 8 2023 18:50 utc | 59 Posted by: Hermit | Feb 8 2023 20:52 utc | 89 rjb1.5 | Feb 8 2023 20:50 utc | 87 Posted by: rjb1.5 | Feb 8 2023 21:04 utc | 90 Remember when “Ukranazistan can’t be given planes because it’ll take too long to gain the pilots” etc? Anyone with half a brain knows that this “announcement” was made after said pilots have already been trained. Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 8 2023 21:04 utc | 91 Posted by: Roadblock | Feb 8 2023 20:30 utc | 83 Posted by: Arganthonios | Feb 8 2023 21:06 utc | 92 The UK has given Zelinsky Euro Typhoon fighters with long range Strom Shadow missiles which I think will reach Moscow. Posted by: jgalt | Feb 8 2023 21:12 utc | 93 Gilbert Doctorow: Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 8 2023 21:13 utc | 94 @jgalt 93 Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 8 2023 21:16 utc | 95 7) Yesterday’s drone attack on Moscow (again, Ukrainian-launched drone, NATO-plotted path through the eye of the needle in between AD coverage zones) Posted by: alek_a | Feb 8 2023 21:18 utc | 96 I had the misfortune to catch a glimpse of the MSM coverage of the piano-playing prick performing in the House of Charlatans and I couldn’t help it, I found myself looking to see if I could spot the puppet strings attached to all of them. Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 8 2023 21:19 utc | 97 @3 HH | Feb 8 2023 15:05 utc | 3 Posted by: xeen | Feb 8 2023 21:19 utc | 98 @6 Posted by: chunga | Feb 8 2023 15:14 utc | 6 Posted by: xeen | Feb 8 2023 21:21 utc | 99 In an interview with the Economist December 03 2022, AFU General Zaluzhny stated to help his forces push back the RF (Not win the War!), he needed: |
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