Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
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February 4, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-29
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Military Summary thinks that a major Russion offensive will start in a few days. Does anyone have any thoughts about this? Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Feb 4 2023 18:23 utc | 1
https://t.me/azmilitary11/36080 Posted by: Down South | Feb 4 2023 18:26 utc | 2 In yesterday’s Ukraine thread Paul Greenwood posted a link to and excerpt from a 1917 work by Lenin on finance capital and imperialism. Lenin’s fourth main point at the very end of the work is that the period of finance capital remains a competition between imperialist powers for sources of raw materials and for markets. I am struck by how US policy in regard to Ukraine and Europe continues to be basically the attempt to secure markets and control of raw materials… Posted by: mjh | Feb 4 2023 18:28 utc | 3 Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Feb 4 2023 18:23 utc | 1 Posted by: Greg Galloway | Feb 4 2023 18:31 utc | 4 Very interesting Tweet on Trump/Zelinski and Putin. Posted by: jgalt | Feb 4 2023 18:32 utc | 5
Posted by: Down South | Feb 4 2023 18:35 utc | 6 @1 yes, it’s a repeat of the initial invasion where Biden declared war on ukraine on behalf of Russia. Now they need to wrap it up sooner rather than later due to losses so they are in fact ordering Putin to hurry up and throw all in. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 4 2023 18:36 utc | 7
Posted by: Down South | Feb 4 2023 18:38 utc | 8 Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Feb 4 2023 18:23 utc | 1 Posted by: Konrad | Feb 4 2023 18:38 utc | 9 It seems to me on another thread recent there was a consensus of sorts that Odessa is critical with respect to resolution of the “Special Military Operation”. For some misguided and misbegotten it seems, I suspect the concept of transparency is inconsistent with how they conduct themselves and “do business”. Per my perspective, and taking into consideration the frailty of fiat currency based upon nothing but “good faith” as well as the delusion of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT – an idea easily used nefariously flawed as such), Odessa could be the solution to this conflict after it returns to the country that deserves to have sovereignty of Odessa based on my studies serious. I’m sure if I had been to Odessa (I’ve been to Odessa, TX – “west Texas you know”) – my view could be more informed, but I don’t see much chance for me to ever go there even though if there was peace, there might be a chance. I suspect it is a beautiful place in peace. Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 4 2023 18:47 utc | 10 As I wrote about Klitschko in an earlier post: Posted by: mo3 | Feb 4 2023 18:51 utc | 11 Buffalo_Ken@10 Posted by: bevin | Feb 4 2023 18:52 utc | 12 Bevin above (@18:52) – I’ll check it out. Thanks. Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 4 2023 18:55 utc | 13 The end of this war will depend on which economy can survive. Ukraine’s economy is dead. The U.S. economy is a rump of the Arsenal of Democracy days. U.S. GDP is 89% Government and Services. Services being LuLu Lemon pantyhose (made offshore), hamburger and Pizza joints, Smartphone (Dumbphone) time wasters, Netflix, and $3 Trillion in “imputed Rent”, i.e., rent that is never paid, but conjured out of a bureaucrat’s butt. Posted by: kupkee | Feb 4 2023 19:03 utc | 15 Thanks @rk Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 4 2023 19:08 utc | 16 An enigma is something hard to understand or to explain. The Ukrainian tactics in the Donbas are an enigma. Posted by: young | Feb 4 2023 19:12 utc | 17 Report of Abrams tanks transported in eastern Bulgaria Posted by: Paul | Feb 4 2023 19:13 utc | 18 @young @19:12 above Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 4 2023 19:17 utc | 19 Aleks at Black Mountain Analysis posted a new strategic analysis today focusing on the longer term. Posted by: Tom Hickey | Feb 4 2023 19:32 utc | 20 Posted by: young | Feb 4 2023 19:12 utc | 17
You asset a conclusion but you have no premise which supports it. It seems like you are saying that you don’t know why but you just know. Maybe you are on to something. Maybe there is a big bioweapons lab there that they must protect from the world finding out. Or maybe it’s just the best central point for which Russia can attack other areas of Ukraine. Maybe it’s the end times, maybe it isn’t. I find end times prophecies fascinating, but what I generally find with them is they just keep moving up the date. Posted by: Trimalchio | Feb 4 2023 19:34 utc | 21
The fact that Ukraine can still supply the front line while simultaneously receive massive arms supply across the border and organise a future offensive from it depth shows the nature of this conflict. Posted by: Johnycomelately | Feb 4 2023 20:03 utc | 23 Found this at Sputnik News:
Posted by: W | Feb 4 2023 20:11 utc | 24 @23 that’s why the russian offensive fears is a western trick. Russia’s best bet is to grind out close to AD and artillery where they have the advantage. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 4 2023 20:16 utc | 25 I think that Zelenskyy’s decisions regarding not retreating, and continuing to push troops to the front, are a result of fear and cunning. Posted by: Babel-17 | Feb 4 2023 20:17 utc | 26 Posted by: Anton Gorbatow | Feb 4 2023 18:23 utc | 1 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 4 2023 20:24 utc | 27 Posted by: Johnycomelately | Feb 4 2023 20:03 utc | 23 Posted by: mo3 | Feb 4 2023 20:29 utc | 28 Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 4 2023 18:55 utc | 13 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 4 2023 20:30 utc | 29 Are you a troll…..or do you want to tell us the last hope of your thinking….some kind of WHAT can’t be, that mustn’t be! Posted by: mo3 | Feb 4 2023 20:30 utc | 30 Posted by: W | Feb 4 2023 20:11 utc | 24 Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 4 2023 20:33 utc | 31 Zelensky is surrounded by people-armed and dangerous madmen- who regard Hitler as the model statesman. Posted by: bevin | Feb 4 2023 20:39 utc | 32 They also want to disrupt the summer season in Crimea by constantly striking at the peninsula. According to rumors from the OP, this will be possible closer to April-May, according to functionaries based on the weapons they receive. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 20:42 utc | 33 But there’s little indication that view aligns with those of working-class Britons, who have endured one of the toughest years in recent memory. With half a million Brits on strike Wednesday amid the worst cost-of-living crisis in generations, issues like better pay and an end to draconian public spending cuts tended to be at the top of the list of demands – but ‘new heavy weapons’ was nowhere to be found. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 20:45 utc | 34 Everything that is supplied to the front line is demilitarized. Russia has already proven that they can move inside Ukraine at any time. It looks as if the goal is to protect the annexed territories that are now Russia. Russia is working within the law. If they went beyond their annexed territories that would be outside of the law and beyond the scope of the SMO, which has been a legal military action thus far. If the belligerent lawless side continues their activities Russia will do whatever it takes to protect themselves. It is very plain to see. Posted by: Diego | Feb 4 2023 20:49 utc | 35 @Babel #26 Posted by: OohCanada | Feb 4 2023 20:50 utc | 36 For those not acquainted. The Oliver Stone’s documentaries on UKR: Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 4 2023 20:52 utc | 37 Public Spending in the UK is at record levels and most on strike were the middle class on wages well above the national average. All politicians in Britain are bought either by big business or public unions. For those of us working in small private business there is nobody to vote for. Posted by: IAN WRIGHT | Feb 4 2023 20:54 utc | 38 Posted by: Johnycomelately | Feb 4 2023 20:03 utc | 23 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 20:55 utc | 39 Posted by: IAN WRIGHT | Feb 4 2023 20:54 utc | 38 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 21:00 utc | 40 In response to Richard Steven Hack @20:30 Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 4 2023 21:06 utc | 41 As a follow up to my post above, from the 2nd link: Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 4 2023 21:11 utc | 42 Is Trimalchio @ 21 in charge of the buffet? I heard the hummingbirds were tasty but someone ate them all. Posted by: Martin Oline | Feb 4 2023 21:15 utc | 43 @43 chatgpt is nothing more than a glorified text prediction program like the one that auto completes your text messages, but tiered beyond human(but not computer) comprehension. Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 4 2023 21:24 utc | 44 Ukraine ‘will burn’ if it strikes Crimea, ex-Russian president warns
Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 4 2023 21:32 utc | 45 Yet another reason that the US and UK are attempting to make an example out of Julian Assange and Wikileaks. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 21:45 utc | 46 @young: The reason why Ukraine doesn’t pull back to the west bank of the Dnieper is that once the Russians get to the Dnieper the war is over – eastern Ukraine (east of Dnieper) accounted for close to 2/3 of pre-war Ukrainian GDP. Western Ukraine, while large geographically, is relatively poor and really isn’t worth fighting over. Though some observers claim Russia wants to take over all of Ukraine, once Russian forces reach the eastern bank of the Dnieper, Putin will probably declare victory while magnanimously ceding Odessa to Ukraine and expelling ethnic Ukrainians from Russian held territory to avoid a potentially nasty guerrilla war. This gives Putin a defensible border with NATO while leaving Ukraine as little more than a rump state, especially after Hungary and Poland take some of the far western regions. Later, when it is clear just how poor and bereft of assets the Ukrainian rump state will be, Russia may move to absorb the areas around Odessa with large ethnic-Russian populations. Posted by: CoupLeeBob | Feb 4 2023 21:49 utc | 47 Babel17@26 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 4 2023 22:01 utc | 48 @W | Feb 4 2023 20:11 utc | 24 Posted by: cirsium | Feb 4 2023 22:03 utc | 49 @CoupLeeBob | Feb 4 2023 21:49 utc | 47 Posted by: Another James | Feb 4 2023 22:08 utc | 50 @41 , Buffalo_Ken Posted by: altCensored.com | Feb 4 2023 22:11 utc | 51 Lira got the balloon right: Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Feb 4 2023 22:25 utc | 52 Posted by: OohCanada | Feb 4 2023 20:50 utc | 36 Posted by: Milos | Feb 4 2023 22:31 utc | 53 The perceived wisdom is that Zelensky has made a tactical decision to sacrifice poorly trained conscripts on the front lines whilst husbanding experienced forces behind the front lines for the future; this may not be true. Posted by: CitizenSmith | Feb 4 2023 23:01 utc | 54 ” and expelling ethnic Ukrainians from Russian held territory to avoid a potentially nasty guerrilla war. This gives Putin a defensible border with NATO while leaving Ukraine as little more than a rump state, especially after Hungary and Poland take some of the far western regions. Later, when it is clear just how poor and bereft of assets the Ukrainian rump state will be, Russia may move to absorb the areas around Odessa with large ethnic-Russian populations. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 4 2023 23:25 utc | 55 Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 4 2023 19:17 utc | 19 Posted by: young | Feb 4 2023 23:28 utc | 56 Posted by: W | Feb 4 2023 20:11 utc | 24 Posted by: Tim | Feb 4 2023 23:28 utc | 57 I thought your hero Putin is all about observing the UN legal system. Your idea of expelling Ukrainians would be a crime against humanity under UN rules. Anyway, if Putin did expel them most of the Western nations would expel Russians in retaliation. Careful what you wish for. Posted by: Let’s Go Brandon! | Feb 4 2023 23:29 utc | 58 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 21:00 utc | 40 Posted by: Tim | Feb 4 2023 23:33 utc | 59 ” I think most Americans would be ok with this. American for Americans, Europe/Africa for Russians, Asia for the Chinese/Japanese. Only way for world peace. MEGA (Make Earth Great Again!) Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 4 2023 23:33 utc | 60 I have zero Military experience but I’ve read several books on the WWII Air war in Europe and N Africa from the German perspective. I can however do simple math. Ukraine before the war was likely <35 M with millions working in the EU and Russia. Now where you take away the population of what is now Russia and the millions of refugees I doubt there's more than 20M Ukrainians and by any measure it's a failed state supported militarily and economically by the western world criminal governments robbing from their own people's. Compare to Russia, a country of ~145 + 5 millions from what used to be the Ukraine. Russian weapons are easily superior to the USA/European obsolete weapons and they are fighting across their border, not an ocean. How anyone could believe despite the overwhelming omnipresent agitprop that the Ukraine could win militarily is way beyond me. Minsk was basically a Quebec in Canada solution. Some autonomy, language and culture issues which work well for us. Certainly better than breaking up the country which almost happened twice until a reality check happened. Europe is getting lots of white guest workers and Germany is being deindustriaized to the great joy of the US and UK. Posted by: Bob | Feb 4 2023 23:35 utc | 61 “Define what an American is.” Posted by: Let’s Go Brandon! | Feb 4 2023 23:36 utc | 62 ” The NHS used to be the most efficient health system in the world because nurses worked there for love, not money. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 4 2023 23:37 utc | 63 Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 4 2023 23:33 utc | 60 Posted by: donten | Feb 4 2023 23:40 utc | 64 Posted by: altCensored.com | Feb 4 2023 22:11 utc | 51 Posted by: Brother Ma | Feb 4 2023 23:50 utc | 66 Posted by: CoupLeeBob | Feb 4 2023 21:49 utc | 47 Posted by: young | Feb 4 2023 23:56 utc | 67 ” “Define what an American is.” Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 5 2023 0:00 utc | 68 The Saker blog will be closed end of Feb..best decision. He had much to fear.
So, Garland confirms USSA is at War with Russia. Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 5 2023 0:01 utc | 69 Southfront had an article of some UK government bureau sending letters to hosts of Ukrainian refugees, demanding the refugees to visit the Ukrainian embassy in UK. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 5 2023 0:04 utc | 70 someone who was either legally born in the US (not anchor babies) or LEGALLY became a citizen through the naturalization process. Not sure how things work where you are from, but this is what defines an American. Posted by: LGB! | Feb 5 2023 0:09 utc | 71 In response to Trimalchio | Feb 4 2023 19:34 utc | 21 Posted by: young | Feb 5 2023 0:10 utc | 72 Abouth THE ENIGMA: The Ukrainian tactical position is an engima. It is an enigma that Zelensky is determined to hold onto every square meter of Donbas territory when it insures the certain destruction of masses of Ukrainian troops? Heavy weapons from North America and Western Europe bound for Ukraine arrive in neighboring countries on rail cars before being brought across the border covertly….but more importantly very dispersed. To interdict that far behind FEBA would involve long range weapons….a Kalibre per tractor trailer hauling a Bradley is hardly economic. I suspect they are heading for the front because orientation and training would be done outside of Ukraine… training areas even on the Polish border have been destroyed in the past…these units with have to form up as they get closer to the front and concentrate to be effective. This is when they are being hit….when they are within range of tube artillery and laser guided munitions for individual machines or rocket artillery for troop concentrations. It’s economy of effort. Posted by: Joe | Feb 5 2023 0:11 utc | 74 Posted by: Milos | Feb 4 2023 22:31 utc | 53 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 5 2023 0:14 utc | 76 Tim Posted by: Milites | Feb 5 2023 0:19 utc | 77 IIRC a commander of Vostok battalion (or Wagner) claimed that Ukraine has half a million in reserve. If things start to stretch and crumble, and turn to a local route here or there, the casualty rate should shoot up significantly. Then it will last even a shorter time. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 5 2023 0:19 utc | 78 @ RSH Post 76 Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 5 2023 0:28 utc | 79 “The advantage is that the Russians will carry out the genocide. Clean service.” Posted by: LGB! | Feb 5 2023 0:36 utc | 80 Interesting how few comments are on topic these days….sigh
Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 5 2023 1:14 utc | 81 Looks like the end of Ukie control of Bakhmut…. Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Feb 5 2023 1:23 utc | 82 no hiding the Transcarpathia hungarians being forced conspription into the 128th mountain brigade which has suffered heavy casualties and been put into the worst situations. these guys need to fight back and shoot a few of these agents. watching them being rounded up one by one violently can only go on for so long. hardly makes willing soldiers that way. Posted by: hankster | Feb 5 2023 1:23 utc | 83 It seems a common understanding of the bar that the driving force for the US and therefore Zelensky is corporate interests like Blackrock and various oligarchs. Russia’s foreign exchange reserves were frozen as the penalty for invading Ukraine. That is what they regarded as their property. Posted by: Cyberhorse | Feb 5 2023 1:24 utc | 84 As I have said in previous posts last year, Russia must take Odessa and probably incorporate Transnistria. Anything less would leave the Empire a nose to get under the tent. Just looking at a map would tell you this. Russia must control their side of the Black Sea or else… Posted by: Immaculate deception | Feb 5 2023 1:35 utc | 85 Ross Douthat, NYT opinionator… reality is setting in with the elites:
It ends this way, after discussing the RAND Long War paper:
We need resources to defend against Chinese baloons. Posted by: upstater | Feb 5 2023 1:35 utc | 86 @ Anton Gorbatow | Feb 4 2023 18:23 utc | 1
Hi, there is no ‘thoughts’ about this unless new facts have spoken. Posted by: spare_truth | Feb 5 2023 1:36 utc | 87 Young @56 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 5 2023 1:50 utc | 88 Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 5 2023 1:14 utc | 81 Posted by: experienced | Feb 5 2023 1:57 utc | 90 Dep C. @68 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 5 2023 1:57 utc | 91 You see, my mother had a Russian friend that escaped Russia under Stalin. She was a ballerina and toured Europe with her American husband who was a concert pianist. This was in the 60s-70s. So I grew up unafraid of Russians and we also had Chinese and Japanese friends. I never believed all the bullshit. Especially since my grandfather worked for Standard oil in the LA basin. I learned early in life to not trust anything on the news. My grandfather uncle’s and cousins fought in every war since WW1 And none of them would ever trust this lying, conniving shit show we call a government. That’s my rant for awhile. Posted by: Immaculate deception | Feb 5 2023 1:59 utc | 92 Likklemore @69 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 5 2023 2:01 utc | 93 The ukrop whos negotiating these exhanges is a better diplomat than Russia has in all of Kremlin. Time after time he manages to get double the Ukrainians released, makes Russia give them back Azov fighters and foreign mercs already sentenced to death. Replace Zelensky with this dude and he will negotiate Russian surrender before the snows melt. Posted by: Chris | Feb 5 2023 2:06 utc | 94 young @72 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 5 2023 2:06 utc | 95 Posted by: Down South | Feb 4 2023 18:35 utc | 6
That is the plan, suggested by the Cock-Piano player. Wake up Mr. Lensky .. Sniper is waiting .. Posted by: spare_truth | Feb 5 2023 2:07 utc | 96 R. Maestri @73 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 5 2023 2:11 utc | 97 experienced @90 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 5 2023 2:22 utc | 98 Posted by: Down South | Feb 4 2023 18:38 utc | 8
If there is a “main reserves” on RF side -or not, it wouldn’t be publicly discussed. Posted by: spare_truth | Feb 5 2023 2:24 utc | 99 spare__truth @96 Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 5 2023 2:25 utc | 100 |
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