Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 16, 2023

Media Bullshit About Ugledar

A typical New York Times propaganda piece is demonstrating how it intentionally misleads its readers:

Moscow’s Military Capabilities Are in Question After Failed Battle for Ukrainian City

As Moscow steps up its offensive in eastern Ukraine, weeks of failed attacks on a Ukrainian stronghold have left two Russian brigades in tatters, raised questions about Russia’s military tactics and renewed doubts about its ability to maintain sustained, large-scale ground assaults.

The battle for the city of Vuhledar, which has been viewed as an opening move in an expected Russian spring offensive, has been playing out since the last week of January, but the scale of Moscow’s losses there is only now beginning to come into focus.

The piece claims that the Russian attack on Ugledar (Vuhledar) has failed to achieve its purpose. But that is wrong.

The attack on Ugledar was a diversion operation. Ugledar was originally defended by two territorial brigades. The Ukrainian command pulled two artillery brigades, one motorized infantry brigade and parts of one tank brigade from other front lines to hold onto Ugledar. The Russian attack thus did what it was supposed to do. It allowed for Russian breakthroughs at the northeastern Kharkiv front and in Bakhmut because Ukraine had moved forces away from those fronts. The fighting around Ugledar has cost Russia some, but not big losses.


The Times itself admits that the Russian effort in Ugledar put the Ukrainian army into a bad situation:

The fighting over Vuhledar has come at a cost for Ukraine, too, both in terms of casualties and in the vast amounts of ammunition it has expended to repel Russia’s growing number of ground troops. Kyiv’s allies this week expressed concern about their ability to meet the demand, raising the possibly that Ukrainian commanders might at some point have to limit shelling to the most important targets.

Well, well ...

[Col. Oleksii Dmytrashkivskyi, a spokesman for Ukrainian military forces in the area,] said the attacks on Vuhledar had been no surprise — the Russians even warned the Ukrainians of the coming assault through social media channels, in an apparent attempt to scare them. “It was announced and spread,” Colonel Dmytrashkivskyi said. “It was done to diminish the morale of the fighters.”

Yes. It was announced and spread. But that was obviously done because it was a diversion attack designed to drag Ukrainian units away from other fronts. The Ukrainian military fell for it and moved more then 10,000 soldiers from other fronts to Ugledar to defend an empty city.

The Russian president Vladimir Putin has lauded the marines who were fighting in Ugledar for doing their job well:

Russian President Vladimir Putin has highly praised the fighting efforts by marines during the special military operation, according to his remarks in a television program, an excerpt of which was posted by journalist Pavel Zarubin to his Telegram channel on Sunday.

"Marines are at work <...> right now. Fighting heroically. Both from the Pacific Fleet and the Northern Fleet," the president said following a meeting of the supervisory board of the Agency for Strategic Initiatives on February 9, according to the excerpt from the program called "Moscow. Kremlin. Putin" that comes out on the Rossiya-1 television channel.

But the British disinformation minister insists:

Mr. Wallace, the British defense secretary, cited reports on Wednesday that “a whole Russian brigade was effectively annihilated” in Vuhledar, where he said that Moscow “lost over 1,000 people in two days.” The British Defense Intelligence Agency reported last week that Russian units had “likely suffered particularly heavy casualties around Vuhledar.”

In reality the Russian army lost probably two company sizes equivalents. Some 300 casualties plus three dozen piece of larger equipment. That was simply the cost of the business.

Within the Times piece there several other misleading claims which also regularly appear in other pieces of the outlet.

In recent weeks, Moscow has rushed tens of thousands more troops, many of them inexperienced new recruits, to the front lines ...

There are no 'inexperienced new recruits' in the Russian forces in Ukraine.

I was drafted into the German army at the age of 18. I thereby was what one calls a conscript soldier. After four month I signed, mostly for financial reasons, a time limited contract. I had thus turned into a temporary regular soldier or contract soldier. When my two year contract ended I became a reservist. I was then mobilized thrice (each time on my request) to take part in large exercises in Canada and Britain and for additional qualification training. As a mobilized reservist I received the same pay, terms and conditions as a temporary regular soldier. There were also professional regular soldiers who had joined the military for a life time carrier.

Russia has fought most of the Ukraine campaign with contract soldiers and Wagner mercenaries. Conscripts were not supposed to take part. (A few accidentally did early on but were soon removed.) Only the Luhansk and Donetsk People Republics militia have used conscripts. Russia has mobilized reservists. These are trained former conscripts and contract soldiers who had done their regular time of service. They were retrained and then send into regular units to take part in Ukraine.

It is completely wrong and misleading to call these "inexperienced new recruits".

Then comes this:

Britain’s defense secretary, Ben Wallace, told the BBC on Wednesday that “97 percent of the Russian army” is in Ukraine, though he did not elaborate or offer evidence for the claim. U.S. military officials estimate that about 80 percent of Russia’s ground forces are dedicated to the war effort.

Before the war the Russian ground forces were 360,000 men strong. The mobilization activated 300,000 additional reservists. Some 70,000 volunteers have also joined military services. The numbers of Russian troops in Ukraine may be 200 to 250,000, a third of the 700,000+ men currently in the Russian ground forces.

It is not just the Times that is spreading utter nonsense. This is from the Washington Post:

As Russians inch forward near Bakhmut, Ukrainians dig fallback defenses

The soldiers here expect the same grinding dynamic to continue, with Russia throwing mostly untrained conscripts at the new Ukrainian defensive positions as they have in the bloody streets of Bakhmut.

Same bullshit, same unacknowledged bullshit source.

Posted by b on February 16, 2023 at 15:40 UTC | Permalink

next page »

Ben Wallace= Boris Johnson = delusion, denial, hypocrisy, deceit, arrogance, decrepit, disgusting.

Posted by: JustTruth | Feb 16 2023 15:48 utc | 1

The new improved NYT - now making even bigger mountains of even smaller molehills, and vice-versa.

Posted by: farm ecologist | Feb 16 2023 15:48 utc | 2

Russia has been systematically attacking Ukrainian power plants and some railway bridges. This is severely reducing the ability of Ukrainians railroads to operate. By provoking the relocation of major forces, Russia strains Ukrainian transportation and reveals weaknesses. Last night, Russia launched even more attacks on Ukrainian power plants. Ukrainian forces are being immobilized at a time when they are out of position.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Feb 16 2023 15:52 utc | 3

The WaPost and NYC are state-sponsored media. They no longer deserve much attention, other than tea-leaf reading.

Posted by: Chris | Feb 16 2023 15:53 utc | 4

The Western media is lying, Russia will conquer Ukraine very quickly after they take Bakhmut, the most vital town in the history of warfare.

The truth the Neocons can't digest is that Russia is a superpower which will always win and it has been winning for 356 days straight.

Posted by: Bernt | Feb 16 2023 15:54 utc | 5

I am fully willing to believe that the Russian operation in Ugledar was poorly executed.

I also think that the mistakes made don't matter much in the big picture, and I am certain they have been exaggerated far beyond what truly happened.

The dogs bark, but the caravan goes on.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 16 2023 16:01 utc | 6

There’s video of the Russian advance being shredded.

That the advance suffered terrible losses due to advancing desire the presence of precision artillery, is being affirmed by moderate OSINT people.

I I love to catch media lying about the war, but I don’t see the evidence for B.’s claim, which reminds me of the Russian MOD claim that their advance on Kiev was a feint (and which they later pivoted from “it was a feint” to “we withdrew to build good will ahead of a peace agreement,”)

Posted by: GoFast | Feb 16 2023 16:02 utc | 7

THANKS for this insightful news on what is really going on in Ugledar.

With an approach of fighting to hold every square meter of Ukrainian territory by Zelensky, it is easy for Russia to set up this diversion as it takes more strategic areas first.

What good is territory, if it cost of holding onto it cost you the troops and military equipment needed to insure you hold on to it?

Posted by: young | Feb 16 2023 16:02 utc | 8

Current Russian strategy appears to be a reformulation of the old game of "Whack a Mole". Now enjoying numerical as well as materiel and logistical superiority, the Russian forces are able to attack on several fronts at the same time. This strategy obliges the Ukies to spread their forces thin, patching holes here and then there. Their reserves are being exhausted in the process. This strategy also prevents the Ukies from "hoarding" their better and more experienced units, whether they are the well-trained veterans (however many remain vertical) or the now numerous sheep dipped Polak regulars or other Natostani troops, as well as mercenaries.

Ukraine's military as well as support elements have reached the point of existential crisis. Several groupings are now caught up in rapidly developing cauldron situations. Once the first one bursts, the collapse will spread along much if not all of the front line. Then commences the steeplechase.

Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 16 2023 16:03 utc | 9

With very little change that could haven been a German communique from the Ukraine front, mid 44.The same pressures to distort, disinform and divert then are driving the Western MSM to mimic Nazi propaganda, shameful.

Posted by: Milites | Feb 16 2023 16:03 utc | 10

You make a good point.
We need people who, like those who would go through Pravda and Izvestia reading between the lines, noting such things as the order in which names of Central Committee members appeared, can discover tiny truthful messages which are in the media by mistake.

The old Kremlinologists will become the model for a new school of Pentagonologists.

They will have to learn for example, that "Our forces triumphed today.." means that there has been a major defeat. They will already know that "The White House ridiculed Hersh's claims" means that his claims have been confirmed, and that "The President wants peace" means that he is determined to start a war.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 16 2023 16:06 utc | 11

SS/DD = Same Shit/Different Day

Thanks for the ongoing speaking truth to power b

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 16 2023 16:22 utc | 12

[email protected] degree in Pentagonology will require years of understudy in Proctology.....

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 16 2023 16:25 utc | 13

Russia definitely did not achieve some strategic objective that they should have:
a. suppressing shelling of Donyetsk agglomeration
b. restoration of Northern Donyets canal that was essential for Donyetsk agglomeration and Mariupol. After Mariupol was liberated, the water was cut off.

The mini-offensive between Dnyepr river and Ugledar did not show capabilities of the regular army that will be needed once Ukrainian again unleash their reserves and/or when Russia will finally proceed with a decisive advance.

And somewhat minor debacle at Ugledar is part of that picture.

Neither side was fully ready for the war, which is normal: now we observe the process on both sides of increasing manpower AND technological capabilities. Unexpected deficiencies AND capabilities were uncovered on both sides, so the balance is actually somewhat wobbly. Putin seems very competent at geo-politics and economic planning, less about pure military issues, I am not sure what core competences were shown by Ukraine and the collective West.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 16 2023 16:26 utc | 14

Posted by: GoFast | Feb 16 2023 16:02 utc | 7

There’s no evidence of the advance being shredded that I’ve see, but lots of deceptively edited footage that conflates and confuses events, and a satellite photo showing a prodigious use of artillery to destroy abandoned machines. The Benny Hill speeded up video of retreating troops was swiftly removed as it gave the lie to the narrative you are pushing.

There are no public statements by moderate OSINT people allowed so far in this conflict, just ones to support a pre-arranged narrative, so please site your sources.

As I have said in numerous posts on this attack, war is a bloody business, a brutal accounting of profit and loss, with the aim to be the black. The Russians lost a BTG, the Ukrainians lost 12 tubes, fired thousands of rounds (no coincidence that after this ‘victory NATO spokesman started talking about ammo supply problems) and the Russians are still gnawing away today. The Brits lost over 200 tanks in a days fighting in Normandy (with German film crews eagerly documenting the destruction) a couple of weeks later the tattered remains of the German forces were struggling to avoid being pocketed, hmm…. does that scenario sound familiar?

Posted by: Milites | Feb 16 2023 16:27 utc | 15

I believe internal Russian media and social media also talks about some major failures in Ugledar. If it reaches those levels I doubt its all "BULLSHIT"

So I would not classify it all on West/Brit disinformation.

Noone will win every battle. Russia will lose lots of battles befor its all said and done.

Posted by: Comandante | Feb 16 2023 16:28 utc | 16

Alex made it sound all techie, that they took out all the tanks using drones and our satellite systems he called "Skynet" from Terminator. "Half the Ukrainian forces are robots." The lack of Russian air support bothers me. That worked for them in Syria, but can't here. They also seem to be short AWACs as we see a lot of low flying helecoptors and stuff does seem to get to the Ukrainian front somehow. Obviously this is a negotiated war as no use of naplam, cluster bombs, depleted uranium, neutron bombs, or tactical nukes that look like Ammonium Nitrate explosions. I expect the next move will be taking out the satellite systems that fly over Russia and spy, as they are aiming the HARMS at hospitals. And that is what the US is threatening to do also of Soviet satellites. Maybe that's what all the spy balloon stuff is about.

Posted by: JimG | Feb 16 2023 16:30 utc | 17

GoFast @ 7

Post the videos. If they are that easy to find then post them.

is being affirmed by moderate OSINT people.

I looked at OSINT a few times. They appeared to me to be rabid in their hatred of Russia. More like an arm of the Great Wurlitzer of the three letter boys.

Posted by: circumspect | Feb 16 2023 16:31 utc | 18

Does anyone have a good handle on Kiev’s true OOB ?

Over the last 10 months, there have been numerous Kiev units annihilated only to be reborn later. There are also a host of Territorials that were 2nd and 3rd rate reserve units.

Kiev only started with ~18 (ground forces) Brigades that were integrated and trained to NATO standards. Around 12 of these were wrecked in the first 6 months.

Barflies ?

Posted by: Exile | Feb 16 2023 16:32 utc | 19

I am not sure what core competences were shown by Ukraine and the collective West.

Oh, I can name at least one. Goebbels-level propaganda that keeps the home front docile and brainwashed. Massive bezzles that keep the MIC fat and happy come to mind, as another "core competency" of the collective West.

Posted by: Chris | Feb 16 2023 16:34 utc | 20

Posted by: JimG | Feb 16 2023 16:30 utc | 17
Balloons over Kiev!

Posted by: Rjb1.5 | Feb 16 2023 16:36 utc | 21

@circumspect | Feb 16 2023 16:31 utc | 18


The pro-Russian twitter account "Ghost" is quite critical of the Ugeldar operation.

As for Ugledar, GZ points:

🔸EW units nonexistent
🔸🔸Initial artillery salvo prior to storming was shut down fast by UA counter battery with no answer
🔸Z counter batter nonexistent
🔸Air support non existant

🔸Seemingly no strategy other than sending in columns of armored against precision artillery
🔸Nonexistent sapper and engineering units to clear obstacles
🔸Severe miscommunication between units leading to a utter clusterfck. This has been confirmed by motorized reinforcements.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 16 2023 16:38 utc | 22

Rip Ukraine to shreds. Nothing less will do.
Do the same to NATO.
Letting anything of this festering cancer survive, and you will have to do the job again.

Posted by: G wiltek | Feb 16 2023 16:48 utc | 23

Posted by: too scents | Feb 16 2023 16:38 utc | 22

Strange that the Russians, who for months have not operated like this, suddenly decide to throw their SOP out the window. It’s almost as they baited a trap, forcing the Ukrainians to divert and deploy critical reserves and expend precious FASCAM, PGM and conventional rounds. It will make a good consolatory scenario though for the Ukrainian player, in the numerous war games this conflict will generate.

Posted by: Milites | Feb 16 2023 16:54 utc | 24

At the start of the war, Russia only committed perhaps 100-120,000 troops. This comes from a comment by Lavrov himself I read months ago.

As I've noted in the past, the bulk of those forces were involved in the initial invasion and in providing artillery support for the forces which were really doing most of the ground fighting: the Donbass militias, the Chechen units from the Russian Rosqvardia, possibly other Rosqvardia units, and the Volunteer Battalions. Thus the Russians conserved their regular army units and marines and paratroopers and used them to provide support, plug holes or do special missions.

The point is that Russia committed perhaps at most a third of their ground units, depending on whether the estimates of total Russian forces are in any way accurate, which is problematic at best since I've seen numbers all over the place from various western sources. Estimates of the amount of the total Russian active military forces have been estimated at 15-20% since the start of the war, but that figure is never explained by anyone in detail.

Currently no one is sure what the actual Russian mobilization figures are. I've seen anywhere from the original 300,000 estimate, plus 70,000 additional volunteers, to a report that an additional 200,000 reservists have been mobilized, down to a mere 150,000 added to the front lines.

Add to that no one seems to know where the 300,000 are, how many have actually joined the fighting, how many are still being trained, how many are waiting in reserve for the alleged "big offensive" (which becomes more doubtful every day), and finally there is the question of how many troops are really in Belarus. As I noted in the last thread, Gonzalo Lira says it is confirmed there are 150,000 in Belarus, whereas the Ukrainians claim the initial 11,000 have been reduced to 5,800.

Ditto for the size of both capable Ukrainian units and mobilized Ukrainian conscripts and available Ukrainian armor and artillery and aircraft.

tl;dr conclusion: Numbers are bullshit. No one knows anything better than a 100% wild guess. But every commentator makes an authoritative assertion regardless - including me.

Double that bullshit for the number of casualties on each side. The Russians report ridiculously low numbers of Ukrainian casualties based on the Russian MoD's own reports, and rarely admit to its own casualties. The Ukrainians, of course, just issue bullshit no matter what it's about.

It's all a big fat waste of time.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 16 2023 16:57 utc | 25

The WaPost and NYC are state-sponsored media. They no longer deserve much attention, other than tea-leaf reading.

Posted by: Chris | Feb 16 2023 15:53 utc | 4

The transition began around 2015. By 2017 or 2018, when they removed the ability for readers to comment on stories--thus adding context and information the NYT left out, misconstrued or simplified; these were really the only reason I read it--its state mouthpiece behavior greatly increased. Made me remember all the 1980s jokes about Pravda I heard as a kid. Now it's all idpol and weird culture pieces.

Posted by: D | Feb 16 2023 17:06 utc | 26

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 16 2023 16:26 utc | 14

'I am not sure what core competences were shown by Ukraine and the collective West.'

what we see is the effect in the west of vast sums of $$ for no new technology since 1972!

and the money did not go for ammunition or logistics.

f-35 7% of planes need engines....

Posted by: paddy | Feb 16 2023 17:06 utc | 27

Posted by: too scents | Feb 16 2023 16:38 utc | 22

Or is that "pro-Russian" Twitter account just another concern troll? Does he have a real name? A military background at battalion officer level or higher? If not, it's just more bullshit. I've come to the conclusion that most of the so-called "pro-Russian" bloggers are as ignorant as the Ukrainian ones. As I've said before, everyone has an opinion. Everyone has an asshole. They are equally important.

The only thing that is important in this war is who's winning. The only way to determine that is who's retreating and who's advancing, on a scale higher than local tactical changes of position - which removes the Kherson and Kharkiv "offensives" from consideration since they never involved anything but battalion and perhaps brigade level engagements. Bahkmut involves as much as 100,000 Ukrainians, but they are being fed piece-meal into Bahkmut to replaces losses, while no one knows how many Russian troops are involved (I treat the estimated 50,000 Wagner size as unconfirmed.)

The other determinant as to who's winning is: who's country is falling apart at the seams? Certainly not Russia. Who's military is falling apart at the seams? Certainly not Russia. Who's political establishment is falling apart at the seams? Certainly not Russia. It is Ukraine and NATO that is falling apart at the seams.

So everything else is bullshit.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 16 2023 17:08 utc | 28

TopWar reported on Feb 14 on a setback near Ugledar:

I'm not qualified to judge whether this event is a catastrophe or a minor incident. But the author definitely sounds unhappy about it.

Posted by: neutrino | Feb 16 2023 17:08 utc | 29

I too have noticed a renewed narrative this week of "Russia is losing," and "the Russian winter offensive has failed," and "Russia is taking massive losses." Where's the evidence for this? It seems to me that Russia is just doing what it has been doing for the past many months: just slow grinding away. Do they take losses? Yes, but it's about 7-1:

The fighter of the PMCS "Wagner" told about the losses of Ukrainian terrorists defending Soledar

"Well, the ratio of losses, it turns out, is 1 to 6 - 1 to 7. On the part of the enemy, 7 to 1 is ours," said the fighter of the Wagner group, Hero of Russia Anton Elizarov with the call sign "Lotus", who commanded the assault.

Posted by: ArchieP | Feb 16 2023 17:09 utc | 30

No one knows anything better than a 100% wild guess.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 16 2023 16:57 utc | 25


Large troop movements cannot be hidden from common commercial satellite imagery. That imagery isn't reported on the the press except in a very limited way to support a narrative.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 16 2023 17:13 utc | 31

No one knows anything better than a 100% wild guess.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 16 2023 16:57 utc | 25


Large troop movements cannot be hidden from common commercial satellite imagery. That imagery isn't reported on the the press except in a very limited way to support a narrative.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 16 2023 17:13 utc | 32

I expect that some day, sooner than later I hope, the weeks just before Russia moved on Ukraine will be subject to the same sort of day by day analysis as the days before Pearl Harbor and of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

One focus will be on Biden and Blinken and Nuland, who so clearly wanted this war, and did all they could to bring it about.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Feb 16 2023 17:13 utc | 33

too scents | February 16, 2023 at 17:13


Edit adding. Google stopped updating their imagery before the conflict started.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 16 2023 17:15 utc | 34

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 16 2023 16:57 utc | 25

No, it’s not a waste of time, it effectively neutralises the OPSEC nightmare that is social media, especially when coupled with amateur, wannabe intel officers; which, in previous conflicts, has been mined to great effect.

Russia’s trump card is rapid strategic re-deployment, so we will soon find out who’s where and what’s what.

Posted by: Milites | Feb 16 2023 17:17 utc | 35

@Richard Steven Hack | Feb 16 2023 16:57 utc | 25

Agree Richard, other that what we see as it develops the fog is pretty thick. No one who really knows has any interest in enlightening the public either. Many thought the UAF front lines would collapse last summer. So far they have not. Will there be a Russian spring offensive? Who knows. A UAF counter offensive? Ditto.

Posted by: the pessimist | Feb 16 2023 17:18 utc | 36

It's as shocking as it is amusing to "experience" the shameless lying and gaslighting in the Western "value society" and its main stream media-propaganda outlets.

Fortunately, this is now (somewhat) balanced with places such as this site. At least if you're willing to come here and find out what's really going on in the world.

Posted by: Karl | Feb 16 2023 17:22 utc | 37

Scheer Repost: Democracy Now's Hersh Interview

Posted by: Arrnon | Feb 16 2023 17:24 utc | 38

@ b. You are on a roll. This series on Ukraine must be collated and printed for the Best Sellers List.. “Miscalculating UKR, the Death of NATO”

Mike Whitney reads at MoA and has diverted his narrative on Sy Hersh’s bombshell detailing what Hersh had wrong. Whitney’s latest (he cites lifting from MoA) lays out the unintended consequences and Hersh will not be silenced.

Next up:

A US-Led 'Coalition of the Willing' Foreshadows the Splintering of NATO

The destruction of the Nord Stream pipeline was a gangster act that reveals the cancer at the heart of the “rules-based order”. How can there be peace and security when the world’s most powerful nation can destroy the critical infrastructure of other countries without deliberation or judicial proceedings? If Hersh’s report can be trusted—and I think it can—then we must assume that senior-level advisors in the Biden administration as well as the president himself deliberately perpetrated an act of industrial terrorism against a long-term friend and ally, Germany.

 What Biden’s involvement in the act implies, is that the United States now claims the right to arbitrarily decide which countries may engage in commerce with which others. And, if for some reason, the buying and selling of energy supplies conflicts with Washington’s broader geopolitical objectives, then the US believes it has the right to obliterate the infrastructure that makes such trade possible. Isn’t this the rationale that was used to justify the blowing up of Nord Stream?

Sy Hersh has done the world a service by exposing the perpetrators of the Nord Stream sabotage. His expose not only identifies the people involved but also infers that they should be held accountable for their actions. But while we don’t expect any thorough investigation in the near future, we do think the magnitude of the attack has been a “wake up” call for people who cling to the belief that the Unipolar model can produce morally-acceptable outcomes. What the incident shows is that unilateral action inevitably leads to criminal violence against the weak and defenseless. Biden’s covert operation hurt every man, woman and child in Europe. It’s a real tragedy. [.]

Instead, of expanding on this belabored theory, let’s take a minute and see if we can figure out something about Hersh’s shadowy “source” of information. Allow me to frame it in the form of a question:

Why did Sy Hersh’s source provide him with detailed, top-secret information about the Biden administration’s sabotage of the Nord Stream pipeline?[.]

• a
• b
• c
• d. The source is a concerned American who thought that revealing information about the destruction of Nord Stream would prevent the neocons from leading the country into a catastrophic war with Russia

If you chose “d” then pat yourself on the back, because that is the right answer. No one in their-right-mind would take the risks that Hersh’s source took unless he felt the country was in grave danger. And, keep in mind, we might not even know what that what that danger is yet, since we don’t know what future escalations the neocons are planning.

For example, it could be that US plans are already underway to deliver F-16s and long-range missile systems that will be used to strike deeper into Russian territory. It could be that the neocons want to detonate a nuclear device in Ukraine as part of a “false flag” operation. Or it could be that Biden plans to organize a ‘coalition of the willing’ (Uk, Poland, Romania) that will fight alongside US Special Forces in combat operations in east Ukraine. 

Any of these developments represent a serious escalation in the hostilities which would increase the probability of a direct clash with nuclear-armed Russia. In Joe Biden’s own words, “That’s what you call World War 3.”

He’s right, it would be WW3, which might explain why Hersh’s source summoned the courage to provide the author with the damning information about Nord Stream. He might have believed that the world was on the fast-track to nuclear annihilation, so he risked his own life for ours. “No greater love hath any man…”.

And the source is not the only person who put himself at risk. Hersh could face charges as well. In fact, I would argue, that if Hersh was not as widely-respected as he is, he would probably be sharing a cell with Julian Assange right now. After all, what is the difference between what Assange did and what Hersh did?[.]


Exactly. What is the difference between what Assange did and what Hersh did over more than 60 years?

Assange’s legal team are very grateful. A reminder to include this factoid in their "List of Authorities" for Assange's ongoing Court Appeals.

Hersh’s revelation forms a current precedent; the U.S. DOJ cannot continue prosecution of Assange and not go after Hersh.
Legacy media avoids touching the Hersh piece. Observe how the Assange persecution has led to silencing MSM and freedom of the press? Hersh was forced to publish on Substack.

“We are the only truth” said Jacinda, former New Zealand Prime Minister.

I may add, hidden in her statement - “And our criminal activities shall not be revealed.”

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 16 2023 17:24 utc | 39

Why is it so hard to storm Ugledar?

Ugledar is sitting on a hill with lots of high rise buildings, surrounded by fields and open landscape with few places to hide.
So Ukrainian soldiers on the top floors of these buildings can spot every attacker for miles and direct artillery and tanks to their location.
A fresh Ukrainian tank brigade was deployed to the north of town (a descent from the town). While the Russians couldn't see them, they were directed by their own soldiers.
So the geography of Ugledar presents an enormous tactical advantage.

I heard that the Russians had losses, probably more than usual, but the Western reports are the same BS as usual.
When the Russians see that they lose too many men, they change their tactics.

Posted by: cortomaltese | Feb 16 2023 17:27 utc | 40

The front line action is kind of like "rocking the boat". You rock the front in the SE, then you rock in the SW corner, then you rock it into NE front (Kupyansk). The whole thing starts to shake, screws start to lose and crack and then it disintegrates. Of course the prerequisite is there are enough credible forces to make credible attacks, but as long as you can keep UAF in the need to shuffle their forces around responding from one place to another (as far as possible) place, they will lose time and waste mobility in efforts to transfer stuff around, can't concentrate and take attrition. Don't know if this is a correct analogy.

Posted by: unimperator | Feb 16 2023 17:32 utc | 41

You'd think the trolls would have given up by now with their western narrative talking points but here they are still spewing garbage. It's pretty simple. Russia is accomplishing everything is has set out to do and there will be no end until all objectives are realized. There's not a single person here that knows what that entails completely but be assured when it's all over, Russia will have gotten what it wants and the west will be screwed in more ways than you can count. Which sucks because I live in the west and know that there's going to be some very bad years to come.

Posted by: Watzov | Feb 16 2023 17:33 utc | 42

@cortomaltese | Feb 16 2023 17:27 utc | 40

There is also a mine dump to the NE with elevation.

Posted by: the pessimist | Feb 16 2023 17:33 utc | 43

80% of stats used in press conferences are just made up

Posted by: scottindallas | Feb 16 2023 17:33 utc | 44

All the west propoganda is designed for one purpose.. TO MISINFORM UKRAINE TROOPS and to boost their morale. Such propoganda gets translated to be fed to the frontline

Posted by: HERMIUS | Feb 16 2023 17:36 utc | 45

"Bullshit" - is a popular technique: the enemy pushes and pushes, the enemy wins. So we steer the issue to the fact that he would have high casualties, that human lives were not worth anything to him, that he was threatening (his own) helpless citizens to the front lines. The enemy wins, but it shall not look like victory for him (and not for us).

The day before yesterday General Milley provided the trigger for this new round of Western media "ganging up". He had nothing good to report about the situation on the ground. When Soledar was lost, there were still tanks for Ukraine. Now it's bad. Now there is no present close by. Milley distracted from the action and babbled on geopolitical issues: Russia had already lost the war on a tactical and strategic level. Russia is a pariah state, an outcast of the "world", the "whole world" is enthusiastic about Ukraine. It is nothing more than an escape into another unreality. It's another projection. Lavrov has just completed two trips to Africa in a row. The states of Africa represent ~20-25% of all votes in the UN. The next "Russia—Africa Summit and Economic Forum For peace, security and development" will take place in Russia in the summer. "Time to act" is a motto.

In fact, Moscow is elevating a central aspect of a multipolar worldview to their formal foreign policy concept. The domestication of Western exclusivity becomes an indispensable model for world peace. Moscow is serious when they put their Russian pedagogy openly on the table. You have to think of it mentally as a world war. A sustainable political solution will not be possible with this US administration or with this mindset in the West in general. Do the actors in the West understand that? Do they really get it? I am not convinced. Some might find themselves in a naïve group illusion.

This huge state of Russia would not exist today if it had not learned from its history. They will not be led to the slaughterhouse. You have to come to them.
And then there are all these rifts, rivalries and intrigues that exist within this NATO alliance, of which Nord Stream is a small pinnacle. No one with political sense in Paris or Berlin could wish for any kind of victory of Washington over Moscow because of the looming consequences for themselves.

Posted by: Konrad | Feb 16 2023 17:38 utc | 46

From Kviv to Kherson to Ulgedar, if the Russian attack was not a success, it was a diversion..

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Feb 16 2023 17:53 utc | 47

Other foot...

[I]n mid December the US started to counter the Russian. move. It published two draft treaties, one with Russia. and one with China, that included stringent security demands:

No more Russia/China expansion towards US borders.
Retraction of the 2008 Russia/China/North Korea/Iran invitation to Mexico and Cuba.
Removal of Russia/China forces from Cuba, Guatemala and El Salvador.
Legally binding guarantee that no strike systems which could target Washington will be deployed in countries near to US.
No Russia/China or equivalent (Iran, North Korea.) 'exercises' near US borders.
US/China ships, planes to keep certain distances from US borders.
Regular military-to-military talks.
No Russia/China nukes in Central America.
US requested written responses and threatened to take 'military technical' measures should the responses be negative. US also planned for and launched new military exercises.

Posted by: andy | Feb 16 2023 17:55 utc | 48

No number of articles in the NYT or WaPo are going to get more 155mm shells to Ukraine.

We can see the maps changing. We can read the cope and pleas for more WunderWaffe. Plenty of signs for us to know which way the wind is blowing.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 16 2023 17:58 utc | 49

I am relaxed about MSM reports of Russian ineptitude and difficulties making headway in Ukraine. I am also gratified by reports of Russian equipment being substandard.

Having seen how The Cold War was a delusional game of misrepresentation to justify major weapons expenditure and manpower allocation to static positions in Germany, it is clear economic resources were wasted on all sides.

Now that NATO states have effectively disarmed themselves I am opposed to replacing those equipment losses or increasing military spending. There are more vital priorities now that energy has become so costly and resources are scarce.

Since Russia is so ineffectual it is time to cut military spending and free up manpower for the productive economy. If US wants to party to defend Europe - fine - but Europe should cut defence spending dramatically to rebuild economies with high priced energy inputs

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Feb 16 2023 18:03 utc | 50

I am fully willing to believe that the Russian operation in Ugledar was poorly executed.
I also think that the mistakes made... The dogs bark, but the caravan goes on.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 16 2023 16:01 utc | 6

It does not matter what you or I are willing to believe, and less so what we think. Some dogs bark even when the caravan does NOT go. LOL

Posted by: Ed | Feb 16 2023 18:13 utc | 51

A combination of Dimas' predictions and Suchomimus post-mortem (sorry...) of the battle of Vuhledar gives a pretty consistent picture of what happened on the ground. (

Not pretty. And very likely not intended to end the way it did.

Having said that, even more solid Ukrainian sources do not estimate Russian losses atore than a couple of hundred soldiers and a couple of dozen tanks and armoured vehicles. At best a tiny fraction of the losses Russia suffered across all fronts according to the Ukrainian government.

According to a different source -tbat I don't recall - that is not surprising. Apparently, Vuhledar is a formidable fortress, not just due to the location on hills, and the warm weather that forces attacking troops on easily mineable and defensible roads. The city is apparently a mining town from a time when miner's accomodation meant solid concrete houses, veritable fortresses, several stories high, with narrow roads between them and nuclear bomb-proof bunkers underneath.

The analysis that the attack was meant to draw Ukrainian artillery away from the north may be correct. Doesn't mean that Russia might have hoped for a different outcome...

Posted by: Marvin | Feb 16 2023 18:26 utc | 52

Richard Steven Hack 25

You don't know me Steven - only post very occasionally - but I enjoy your contributions.
I am also baffled by the numbers, especially those of the Russians since mobilisation. No one really knows outside Russian military circles, even though many commentators have 'hunches' - e.g. that some figures 'sound' too high or too low. Colonel MacGregor may or may not have 'inside sources' but he believes the Russians didn't stop mobilising after the 300,000 figure was reached. So we may be talking about another??? Who knows? But how many of this unknown number are on the battlefield is impossible for anyone to judge (my agnostic nature wouldn't allow me to consider it). Russian military activity has certainly picked up but how many additional forces this represents is for people like Dima to speculate - I'll stay out of it.

Posted by: Rob Campbell | Feb 16 2023 18:35 utc | 53

Richard Steven Hack @ 28

The other determinant as to who's winning is: who's country is falling apart at the seams? Certainly not Russia. Who's military is falling apart at the seams? Certainly not Russia. Who's political establishment is falling apart at the seams? Certainly not Russia. It is Ukraine and NATO that is falling apart at the seams.

Good point, I will remind myself of it when feeling grim.

I'll add that there isn't one single solitary country in NATOstan and the entire west where politicians, right and left, aren't reviled. I don't mean disliked, I mean reviled. Yes, people go out to vote but no one does it without holding their nose, even burgher zombies indoctrinated in the correctness of their "democratic" system have nothing good to say about their politicians.

And, all this in the middle of an resoundingly trumpeted "existential" military crisis for the west. Outside the media propaganda echo chamber you don't see any rallying around the flag, bake sales, and yellow ribbons on oak trees, in WW2 Italy my grandmother gave her wedding band to the war effort. Has such indifference ever happened in any existential war, perceived or real? In Russia you do see a population rallying around the flag.

I don't know about good overcoming evil but I don't think mass indifference can overcome mass commitment.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Feb 16 2023 18:37 utc | 54

The rule of thumb is anything coming from Western sources.... is absolute bullshit. The Russian naval infantry assault captured on film in Ulgedar was edited heavily. A mechanized column did run into a hasty defensive minefield laid on the approach to Ukrainian positions and covered with crew served weapons but the extended footage actually shows that column withdrawing mostly intact. Marine battalions operate as light infantry and are quite abit lighter than regular Army BTGs....less men and less support I'm assuming..but I digress....the narrative will only become more and more farcical for the very reason that the Western public must be convinced that Russia is on the ropes and desperate enough to do the unthinkable....a nuclear false flag awaits to justify a NATO intervention. The worst thing is....the clowns starting this global cataclysm were put there by a coup d'etat and their mandate is not from the people of the Republic but by Globalist scum

Posted by: Joe | Feb 16 2023 18:41 utc | 55

This footage from the attack on Ogledar seems very chaotic, makes you wonder what had happend with their comms.

Posted by: Wappius Maximus | Feb 16 2023 18:41 utc | 56

The Injured Party

Will Germany try and whistle past the graveyard of several (and perhaps increasing) demands for investigation venues for the Nord Stream sabotages without taking part? Or taking even a position?

Posted by: Elmagnostic | Feb 16 2023 18:41 utc | 57

Sorry...meant to say motorized column of Marines...not mechanized

Posted by: Joe | Feb 16 2023 18:55 utc | 58

When this whole SMO started, I never figured Russia would just sweep in and after a few days conquer all of Ukraine. That was nonsense. But I never imagined they'd be having this hard a time. We keep hearing stories on how Ukraine is on Xth mobilization and how their army has been decimated but I don't see it. They keep pushing Russia back and inflicting horrific casualties on Russian troops. American tech and intelligence with Ukraine's massive army seems to be bleeding Russia white. The rest of the world is looking at this and realizing pissing America off is suicidal. America really is the world's sole superpower, no other nation comes close despite the propaganda.

Posted by: Bored | Feb 16 2023 19:02 utc | 59

Russia has been superior to the West in conventional land warfare since the 1950's at the very least, yet its only now that Russia is putting Western ability to the test in Ukraine. Russia aught to be ashamed of itself. Russia had the first smooth bore guns on tanks, the first gas turbine engines on tanks and is only now about to use its tanks against Western tanks, disgusting.

But its only now that Russia considers it possible to survive MAD, having implemented its own Star Wars program, that Russia considers it possible to take on the West, starting in Ukraine. The West talked about its missile defence Star Wars system but never implemented anything, Russia didn't talk much but now has a working multi-layered air and near space defence system in place. It is not in development, it is deployed. Lets not talk about the thrust vectoring on Russian planes.

Russia had the first man in space, the first satellite in space, but the Yanks put the first man on the moon, yeah right. Russian rockets are still the best. The whole West just seems like a mirage, and has been a mirage, an optical illusion, since the end of WW2.

Posted by: gT | Feb 16 2023 19:15 utc | 60

So, the Ukrainians may have guns, even artillery, but no ammo. Now they appear to be mobilising women and teenagers. So, soon there will be no one to fire the guns. Is this a 'gradually-then-all-at-once' scenario?
A few years ago my garage roof had a broken tile. Water dripped in, pooled, dried out, came in again, pooled, etc. Then a moderate storm brought heavy rain and it began to drip through the ceiling. Boom: half the ceiling caved through under the weight and the preceding erosion. The AFU too will have its 'boom' moment, and I don't think it's far off. And then there'll be real Russian waves. But we won't hear about that. 'Ukraine? Oh yeah I remember something in the papers; what happened with that in the end?'

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2023 19:21 utc | 61

It seems that the newly mobilized Russian reserves are not as good as the Wagner troops. I suppose that is to be expected and that they will improve.
It is sad that they seem to have lost so many at Ugledar, apparently because of NATO helping the Ukies.

What I want to know is why Russia didn't target the mercenaries and NATO troops said to be fleeing Bakhmut while leaving the hapless Ukie conscripts to die. If Russia knew they were leaving by car and helicopter why didn't they attack those vehicles?

Posted by: wagelaborer | Feb 16 2023 19:22 utc | 62

Or to quote the mighty Homer J: "change the channel Marge!"

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2023 19:23 utc | 63

Posted by: wagelaborer | Feb 16 2023 19:22 utc | 62

There are a lot of open questions about the punches Russia has pulled over the last year. I suspect that back-channel communications establish something of a shifting rules of engagement situation. Russia is careful to apply only certain kinds of pressure and act in response rather than provocatively. One day we'll learn more about the different fates of those who surrendered at Mariupol, but it looks like NATO personnel and mercs were quietly returned. The SMO, it seems, was given specific parameters that did not include e.g. Tupelov Arclighting AFU positions in Avdiivka, which might have made the lives of Donetsk citizens easier. Both sides seem to pretend that Ukraine is not crawling with larpers or even half the Polish army. We all know that if the gloves were off from Day 1 the Ukies would be gonski, but a wider war may well have been initiated. Careful escalation may in the end be the most successful part of Russia's management of the conflict. I hope I live long enough to read a well-researched history with access to the best sources, but I fear this one is doomed to join JFK's assassination in the memory hole.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2023 19:36 utc | 64

B's analysis is essentially correct. Ugledar brought down reserves from kremmina, including kraken elite unit. In addition nato surveillance assets were used to watch it. It was a poorly done probing attack but most soldiers made it back and the t80s are being under industrial production so were relatively cheap.

31 seems to be an exaggeration but still around 20 including bmp troop carriers.

One thing needs to be noted though is Ukrainian artillery supremacy, they are quicker and an order of magnitude more accurate. Ironically it may be russian drone superiority now. The Iranian tech is stimulating improvements in the lancet.


Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 16 2023 19:36 utc | 65

Exactly. What is the difference between what Assange did and what Hersh did over more than 60 years?

Assange’s legal team are very grateful. A reminder to include this factoid in their "List of Authorities" for Assange's ongoing Court Appeals.

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 16 2023 17:24 utc | 39

The difference should be obvious. Hersh is passing leaked information that some faction of Deep State wants published, similar to Woodward and Bernstein. Assange released unfiltered, uncensored, classified information that was detrimental to the interests of Deep State.

Trump the campaigner: "I love Wikileaks.", "Lock her up.", "Russia, release her emails."
Trump the POTUS: "Wiki-who?", "They're good people"
Trump's benefactor (Adelson) after the election tries to get the CIA to assassinate Assange. He knew too much and was not controlled opposition like Hersh.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 16 2023 19:37 utc | 66

@64 not all russia will have to deploy everything ukraine cannot be left to lay claim to any russian territory.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 16 2023 19:46 utc | 67

The difference should be obvious. Hersh is passing leaked information that some faction of Deep State wants published, similar to Woodward and Bernstein. Assange released unfiltered, uncensored, classified information that was detrimental to the interests of Deep State.

so what? there are different factions. you gloss over whether the story is true or not. if the deep state wanted Hersh's story published why is the entire mainstream media ignoring it, not just in the US but in the rest of the West, including Germany. and what little they publish attacks Hersh. like you're doing.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 16 2023 19:47 utc | 68

otoh there is no problem whatever getting the msm to cover the bullshit the deep state wants published about the war in Ukraine, or deadly weather balloons. what a shock.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 16 2023 19:52 utc | 69

I only listen or read the Meme Scream Media for entertainment. It reinforces my view of the idiocy of our beloved Empire.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Feb 16 2023 19:54 utc | 70

@68, Agree essentially. Hersh's story likely the result of a faction or disgruntled individual within the deep state putting pressure on the White House.

While details of Hersh's story might turn out incorrect, the thrust is obviously correct.

White House now assembling 51 retired intelligence officials to refute Hersh as Russian disinfo. Now where have we heard that one before...

Posted by: Pudding | Feb 16 2023 20:01 utc | 71

if the deep state wanted Hersh's story published why is the entire mainstream media ignoring it, not just in the US but in the rest of the West, including Germany. and what little they publish attacks Hersh. like you're doing.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 16 2023 19:47 utc | 68

I am not attacking Hersh, only pointing out that he is doing what he has done before, blending fact and fiction for the purposes of advancing a political narrative.

Deep State is not a monolithic entity. That most of the MSM is aligned with the Democratic Party should be obvious, as is the uni-party's anti-Russian position.

So some Deep State faction wants the current US Administration (in particular, Sullivan, Biden, Nuland, Blinken) to be held accountable for their decisions. Clearly the MSM and the anti-Russian uni-party do not.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 16 2023 20:03 utc | 72

Ellsberg worked for the state, yet the Pentagon papers revealed truths the state did not want publicised about the war. this is bullshit.he is not blending fact and fiction to advance a political narrative, the only fiction he blends in is to protect sources. if the vast majority of the state wants a story suppressed, the person reporting that story is not "controlled opposition".

Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 16 2023 20:14 utc | 73

You know in Ohio, somebody effed up and now the whole Mississippi River gets what the Ohio feeds into it and just in case you didn't know there is a storm on the way, and truly, there has been no ACCOUNTABILITY

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 16 2023 20:15 utc | 74

So, that post ended before I desired, but it stands.
When there is no accountability for decades of lies, then eventually the truth asserts itself and it is directly proportional to the duration and impact of the lies told for which no accountability occurred.
I mean, don't you think Lady Libra, the holder of the scales is most upset, but she knows - there is no escaping justice.

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 16 2023 20:17 utc | 75

scottindallas | Feb 16 2023 17:33 utc | 44
80% of stats used in press conferences are just made up
Hmm. Three inside sources with familiarity of the issue confirmed the Biden administration has successfully initiated initiatives. That 80% figure is relevant to the failed Trump administration. Biden, being a more accomplished politician, has achieved a figure of above 98% and closing in on 100%.
Seventeen media-intelligence agencies have investigated and can confirm this.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 16 2023 20:26 utc | 76

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 16 2023 19:36 utc | 65

‘One thing needs to be noted though is Ukrainian artillery supremacy, they are quicker and an order of magnitude more accurate.’

I’d argue that Ugledar showed the opposite: thousands of shells expended, including PGM’s, at a linear target, halted by a minefield, in a pre-registered firing point and only two dozen AFV’s neutralised with the majority of dismounts and crew allowed to retreat.

Posted by: Milites | Feb 16 2023 20:37 utc | 77


When one runs a background information check on the authors. Little wonder the stench of lies, fiction, and misinformation. Start from the first paragraph to the final full stop.

After all for one to assign credibility. One always runs background checks on the authors.

A bad author equals poopaganda, misinformation, and lies.

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Feb 16 2023 20:38 utc | 78

Baghdad Ben Wallace cheerleading for a country whose prime minister he can't even recognize-

Video-prank with UK Secretary of State for Defence Ben Wallace

Posted by: Browser | Feb 16 2023 21:00 utc | 79

Alexander Lukashenko named the size of the Belarusian army in peacetime and wartime. According to him, "in peacetime, there are 75,000 servicemen in Belarus." But in several stages, if necessary, under war conditions, the number can be increased to half a million.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Feb 16 2023 21:04 utc | 80

300 hundred losses and 30 vehicles for a holding operation is no big deal?

Posted by: Johnycomelately | Feb 16 2023 21:12 utc | 81

New EU sanctions package to ban Russian supplies of bidets, toilet bowls, and flush cisterns - EUobserver. It is also proposed to impose a ban on the export of hemp yarn, LEDs, forklifts, letter sorters, smokestacks, bricks, tires, and pen nibs. Everything would be fine, but ... a bidet and feathers for pens !!!

This is not at all as silly as it seems, it’s indicative, the tsunami of sanctions has failed so badly they are literally throwing in the kitchen sink, actually beyond that, the toilet. You would think the EU would realize how desperate this looks on their part. They are reduced to petulance, what stage comes after that?

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Feb 16 2023 21:18 utc | 82

Must Read: The Fuss Surrounding the Capture of Ugledar – What’s Really Going On? on Сталкер Zone today.

"...There is no point in hiding here. There are real losses. Both on our side and on their side. But there is much more on their part. 70-80% more."
...almost 500-600 shells are fired from one gun alone per day...
...the Russian officer noted that if the UAF loses one position, they immediately switch to another, then to the third or fourth. There they sit out and try to break forward again. But the Russian troops are not letting them back in...

Posted by: OttoE | Feb 16 2023 21:18 utc | 83

@LightYearsFromHome | Feb 16 2023 21:18 utc | 82

They are reduced to throwing crap on the wall.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 16 2023 21:22 utc | 84

Johnycomelately | Feb 16 2023 21:12 utc | 81

500 losses for counterattacks with negative positional gain is no success either.

Posted by: OttoE | Feb 16 2023 21:35 utc | 85

LightYearsFromHome | Feb 16 2023 21:18 utc | 82
Western media told me… and still does, that Russia is too primitive to have flush toilets anyway.
Also.. wasn’t the whole purpose of the Russian sloSMO just a cover op to steal Ukrainian toilets?
That’s what I read, I’m sure.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 16 2023 21:36 utc | 86

Posted by: too scents | Feb 16 2023 17:13 utc | 32

Satellites don't count every body on the field, no matter their resolution. And the images have to be interpreted. And for most of this fighting, there are no large troop movements, just small tactical units.

The important point is that the real figures aren't communicated to anyone except the data analysts and the high commands in Russia, Ukraine, the US and NATO and certainly not to bloggers.

Any reliance on these numbers is misplaced. It's that simple.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 16 2023 21:41 utc | 87

@77. No. One must be ruthless when objectively analyzing one's military position. There wasn't thousands of shells. They were pretargetted on the road waiting for the attack, this is clear. Do not underestimate your enemy you will be slaughtered if you do.

Western artillery is longer ranged and more accurate, fact. Ukraine needs tanks because it's counter battery program is better, much better, but its t72s are all dead. It's nato satellites and targeting and don't you forget it. Artillery is not russias ace, its resources to make the expendable war tools. The soviets knew it and so does russia.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 16 2023 21:42 utc | 88

Ukraine has 150k+ dead and probably twice that wounded, MIA, captured, deserted. Thousands of pieces of materiel gone. Airforce and air defence smashed. Source of materiel: out of stock. Mobilising women and children.

But their artillery is more accurate than Russia's? Someone's missing the big picture.

Russia stumble—perhaps overreach—in a tactical operation. Maybe a battalion is badly mauled, screwed up and lost a few too many vehicles.

Conclusion: ooh, is Russia not as good as everyone thought?

Even in these comments there's often zero perspective. If Nauru score a goal against France in a world cup qualifier so that the final score is 56-1, should we write France off as a football powerhouse?

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2023 21:43 utc | 89

But the British disinformation minister insists:

Mr. Wallace, the British defense secretary, cited reports on Wednesday that “a whole Russian brigade was effectively annihilated” in Vuhledar, where he said that Moscow “lost over 1,000 people in two days.” The British Defense Intelligence Agency reported last week that Russian units had “likely suffered particularly heavy casualties around Vuhledar.”

Today this same UK 'defense secretary' Wolly is suggesting Ukraine not use ammunition up so fast. As he is a Wolly perhaps he recommends every second bullet or artillery shell be a blank?

Would that be ok Wolly?

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 16 2023 21:44 utc | 90

Patroklos #89

"should we write France off as a football powerhouse?"

The short, undefined version suits me right now and I gather it suits the good citizens of Mali today and those of Vietnam yesterday.

The New Caledonia Indigenous people wrote them off some time ago but have not yet thrown them off.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 16 2023 21:48 utc | 91


Scott reminds of Twain's purported aphorism...

“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”

Posted by: Publius Flavius | Feb 16 2023 21:48 utc | 92

Posted by: Rob Campbell | Feb 16 2023 18:35 utc | 53

Good approach, and thanks for the compliment.

Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Feb 16 2023 21:49 utc | 93

# 82 petulance to the power of 2.

Posted by: Dingo | Feb 16 2023 21:51 utc | 94

@89 what am I missing? Those western guns are much better. So what if helpless Ukrainian conscripts are dying? That doesn't negate russia needs a lot more shells to neutralize a target.

Russia can blow stuff up but they should level every building in ugledar and maryinka but they just can't do it. The buildings still stand

I saw what that errant cruise missle did in dnipro, why can't it level Ukrainian spotters in ugledar? They can't target well enough to risk a cruise missle and can't hit anything with artillery.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 16 2023 21:54 utc | 95

Posted by: Johnycomelately | Feb 16 2023 21:12 utc | 81

I think those figures were for the entirety of the first phase of the operation, I was talking about the artillery strike on the BTG who were reinforcements.

Overall, 300 casualties v’s the forced deployment of TWO regiments of artillery (the same number used to defend the assault on Kiev) and the best part of two brigades, including armour, was a good investment and not a big deal. Given those forces could have significantly slowed the pincers creeping round Bakhmut or helped the collapsing Northern Front, and are now fixed and vulnerable to artillery strikes.

Posted by: Milites | Feb 16 2023 21:58 utc | 96

Ugledar is a fortified hangout according to Weeb Union in his latest summary some 14 hours ago:

Devotes some time and aerial images in support of his analysis.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 16 2023 21:58 utc | 97

Posted by: Bored | Feb 16 2023 19:02 utc | 59

What makes you think that we're here to listen to NATO propaganda?

Posted by: Arganthonios | Feb 16 2023 22:00 utc | 98

I have been wondering lately what the Ukranians are thinking, because it doesn't seem like they have a realistic path to victory at this point. They are not likely to be able to extract more favorable peace terms from the Russians, if anything their position will get less tenable. One possibility is that they are sure the US will directly intervene on their behalf. If a vote for outright war came up in the US congress, it would probably pass. Complaints about how NATO is running out of ammo are disingenuous. They have ammo, they just don't want to give it to the Ukraine, since they need it for their own troops to use against Russia.

Posted by: catdog | Feb 16 2023 22:04 utc | 99

Buffalo_Ken #75

"there is no escaping justice."

Unfortunately I experience those that have. AND I note they have blindfolded Lady Libra.

The age Aquarius is just beginning so I anticipate improvement;)

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 16 2023 22:09 utc | 100

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