Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 13, 2023
The Buildup To War In Ukraine – Sunday, February 13, 2022

In early 2022 Ukraine had finished the preparations for an overwhelming attack on the renegade People Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk (DPR and LNR).

Half of the Ukrainian army, some 120,000 men recruited and trained during the last 7 years, were stationed near the ceasefire line and ready to go. On the opposing side only some 40,000 men were under arms. They would have little chance to withstand an onslaught.

Russia could not let a Ukrainian attack happen. If Ukraine could regain the renegade provinces it would have been able to join NATO. Russian public opinion was decisively on the side of the Russian speaking DNR and LPR. It would surely demand an intervention. Since the 2014 coup in Kiev some four million Ukrainians had already moved to Russia. There are lots of family ties between the two countries. In sight of this Russia had put some of its own forces on alert and had moved weapons and munition to assembling points near the Ukrainian border.

The U.S. had for months warned of an upcoming Russian attack on Ukraine. It could do that because it knew the Ukraine would attempt to regain the republics by force. It knew that Russia would have to respond. On January 12 2022 CIA director Bill Burns had secretly met Zelensky in Kiev. Burns often carries messages from President Joe Biden.

On Sunday February 13 2022, after a phone call with U.S. president Joe Biden, the Ukrainian president Zelensky gave the final order for the planned Ukrainian attack.

That the decision had been made was immediately leaked in London as well as in Kiev.

In its summary of the day the Guardian listed a lot of activities that were consistent with the imminent start of a conflict. Diplomats and foreign military were moving out of Ukraine. Weapons flew in.

Tipped off by its government the British insurance conglomerate Lloyd stopped reinsurance services for anything Ukraine:

Anatoliy Ivantsiv, head of Ukrainian insurance firm Expo, told Interfax that British reinsurance giant Lloyds announced it would temporarily cease all conflict risk insurance over Ukrainian airspace from Feb. 14.

When the news of the attack order leaked in Kiev, its 'elite' oligarchs and some parliament members were ready to leave. On February 13 and the following days they fled the country:

Ukraine’s richest men are fleeing the country with their families as the number of private jet charters jump after the possibility of war spiked in recent days, according to flight traffic information posted on social media on February 13.

Switzerland, Austria and the south of France were the most popular destinations for the charter flights.

Ukrainska Pravda stated that such an exodus on charter flights hasn’t been witnessed in six years of observations. The publication reported that planes belonging the country’s top oligarchs, including Rinat Akhmetov, Viktor Pinchuk, and Boris Kolesnikov, as having left the country. A private plane for 50 people was also ordered by Igor Abramovich, another top business figure.

bne IntelliNews sources confirm that two residential English tutors, both British citizens, working for an MP and a businessman respectively, will leave for the south of France this week. Neither confirmed that the flights had anything to do with increased fears over an invasion, as both families travel regularly with their staff for work holidays. Even last month, when the war drums began to beat more loudly for the first time, tutors and teachers working at private schools in Kyiv reported a large number of children absent, away on holidays.

Some members of the Ukrainian parliament were also bailing out. on February 14 Kiev Independent reported:

More than two dozen lawmakers out of a total 424 MPs, who are due to attend parliamentary sessions starting this week, are not currently in Ukraine. Almost half, or 12 deputies, are from the pro-Russian party Opposition Platform-for Life, five deputies are from the presidential Servant of the People party. Most of the lawmakers, or 20 people, left the country in February.

As part of the Minsk agreement the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) had a Special Observer Mission at the ceasefire line in east-Ukraine. Over the weekend of February 12 and 13 the front had been relatively quiet:

In Donetsk region, between the evenings of 11 and 13 February, the Mission recorded 261 ceasefire violations, including 50 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 114 ceasefire violations in the region.

In Luhansk region, between the evenings of 11 and 13 February, the SMM recorded 114 ceasefire violations, including 24 explosions. In the previous reporting period, it recorded 258 ceasefire violations in the region.

The observed numbers of explosion were less than the average of the last 7 and 30 day periods. Explosions occurred on both sides of the ceasefire line.


bigger

Comments

Susan | Feb 14 2023 12:43 utc | 296
of course there is no ‘conformation’, the level of disinformation about neolib/neocon goings on toward arming up ukraine is new standard for propaganda.
my run through open sources on ukraine in 2021 suggested that it was a country defended buy old men in the militia and oligarch’s body guards.
the facts of the past 12 moinths show the opposite.
the ‘black’ budget run by the west is tight as a drum, so ‘confirmation’ of the negative is suspect.
unless nato has been populating the fronts since last feb…..

Posted by: paddy | Feb 14 2023 13:48 utc | 301

As someone who was here and working in the industrial economy we had in the 1960s, I can tell you that it has been gone for forty years, that economy, and it would take a generation to educate enough of the workforce here back up to the standard we had back then.
Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 14 2023 13:44 utc | 301
And any statistics saying the US is still an Industrial Giant are pure fakery, another skill of modern America.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Feb 14 2023 13:59 utc | 302

Posted by: AG | Feb 13 2023 17:26 utc | 6
I think your questions are extremely valid. The lead article certainly provides highly suggestive evidence of an imminent full scale Ukrainian attack but little that couldn’t be subject to alternative interpretations. The irrefutable evidence is of course the OSCE reports showing dramatic escalation in artillery fire into the Donbas starting around February 17, but, especially in light of the hostilities over the prior eight years, that in itself is not an assurance of an all out attack.

Posted by: Aguilar | Feb 14 2023 14:09 utc | 303

@ Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 14 2023 7:05 utc | 252
The Butterfly Effect is a metaphor illustrating the practical limits of scientific modelling. It is not actual science.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 14 2023 14:20 utc | 304

“The Butterfly Effect is a metaphor illustrating the practical limits of scientific modelling. It is not actual science.”
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 14 2023 14:20 utc | 305
Did you not consider that psychohistorian was using it in a metaphorical fashion? Or, perhaps, the comment was intended to undermine the suggestion’s positive influence of a counter-narrative to that provided by the M$M?

Posted by: Lantern Dude | Feb 14 2023 14:35 utc | 305

Newsweek
Russian Politician Says It’s Time to ‘Admit’ Real Reason for Ukraine War

Gurulyov argued Putin should finally own up to why he launched the Ukraine invasion during the Russian state TV appearance. The Kremlin has cracked down on free press amid the war, meaning the television news show largely serves as Putin’s propaganda. His remarks were translated and posted to Twitter by journalist Julia Davis, who regularly tracks Russian state TV.
“We should shut down the topic of Ukraine for good and admit that denazification and demilitarization will shut down Ukraine as a project once and for all,” he said. “It once existed, but it is no more.”
He continued to assert that “there is no Ukraine” and that the country is actually a territory of Russia. He described retaking control of Ukraine as “the most important thing to accomplish today.”. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 14 2023 14:48 utc | 306

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 14 2023 14:48 utc | 307
Yet another version of the official presentation of Russia as an autocracy, with secret objectives, in place of the self-evident truth that there’s a variety of views in Moscow, as in Washington.

Posted by: laguerre | Feb 14 2023 14:59 utc | 307

Must be true; it’s on “sly news”:
NATO could face a real problem as West ’emptying war chests’
NATO could be “facing a real problem” as the West depletes its stock of weapons while it supports Ukraine, a military analyst has said.
Speaking to Sky News this afternoon, military analyst Sean Bell said NATO had “never budgeted” for a “war on this size and scale” and might struggle to keep up the current level of support.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Feb 14 2023 15:09 utc | 308

@ laguerre | Feb 14 2023 14:59 utc | 308
another version of the official presentation of Russia as an autocracy,
Yes, earlier in the article Newsweek reveals that they have a full-time woman tuning into Russian TV, and it’s just for that purpose, to pick and choose something that “proves” that RussiaPutin is nasty and conniving.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 14 2023 15:10 utc | 309

America and Enland are parasitic.
Feeding off of cheap labour world wide. Utilizing valuable land that could benifit indigenous populations.
Exploiting mineral resources.
It’s not the US or England that gives aid to the world, but the rest of the rest of the world has to support US and England.
Against their will.
Curupt paid for politicians.
A business model.
Planed for Ukraine, Russia, Europe.
The catch is they dont need the population.
They don’t need the population in America or England.
Refunded due to modern tec.
It’s a business plan.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 14 2023 15:15 utc | 310

Great insights! I knew there was something the MSM wasn’t telling us!

Posted by: Harrison | Feb 14 2023 15:16 utc | 311

The butterfly effect is a simple way to say that the past does not determine the future, new things emerge and evolve, all the time ….
This annoys the sort of people who want to pretend the world is a machine, and they control it, and it is all about them.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 14 2023 15:21 utc | 312

I can tell you that it has been gone for forty years, that economy, and it would take a generation to educate enough of the workforce here back up to the standard we had back then.
Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 14 2023 13:44 utc | 301

Absolutely – very VERY few youngsters learn how to use basic hand tools these days. Much less using shop tools like a drill press or table saw. At some point American High Schools and Junior High Schools dropped Shop Class. A crime
Lemme tell you about the 22 year old I hired that never held a broom in his hands. Yes – this 20 something didn’t know how to sweep a floor. I asked him if he and his Dad ever cleaned out their garage together. Vacant Stare was all I got. His father was a good man, I knew him. But geez ….

Posted by: Exile | Feb 14 2023 15:21 utc | 313

Did you not consider that psychohistorian was using it in a metaphorical fashion?
Posted by: Lantern Dude | Feb 14 2023 14:35 utc | 306

Of course, it cannot be used in any other way.
I recall decades ago the British author, Martin Amis, professing disdain for the use of similes and metaphors in writing. If you want to understand or describe something, try for what it is, not what it is like.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 14 2023 15:37 utc | 314

Posted by: Exile | Feb 14 2023 15:21 utc | 314
Yes, thank you, exactly, not even aware of what they lack.
But they all know Windows, and Apple, etc. and other such ephemeral commercial crap.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 14 2023 15:40 utc | 315

I’m a loyal reader of your blog, which I usually find reliable, but this one is an exception.[…] Geoffrey Roberts, the Irish historian of WWII on the Eastern front and biographer of Zhukov, wrote that there is no confirmation of the Russian claim that the Ukrainians were preparing an offensive against the Donbass: “‘Now or Never’: The Immediate Origins of Putin’s Preventative War on Ukraine,” Journal of Military and Strategic Studies, Vol. 22, Issue 2.”
Posted by: Susan | Feb 14 2023 12:43 utc | 296
—————————————————–
The accumulation of the Ukrainian army on the line of contact with Donbass was not a prominent issue in the West at that time, who is surprised? How did Roberts interpret the phenomenon of a Ukrainian troop presence? If he left them out entirely, then it does not indicate a qualitative contribution to his study, which would not be surprising considering the title of his contribution.
At the time, many thought that the deployment of Russian soldiers on the border with Ukraine at the end of 2021 was actually a direct reaction/deterrent to the Ukrainian troop formations, so that Kiev would not launch an attack.
Of these many people, probably very few suspected that the Kremlin would even launch a military operation, even though it had announced “technical military measures”.
The prominent historian Snyder from Yale University wrote in an essay in the NZZ in January about a “Russian genocide” against the Ukrainian population. History is considered an interpretive science. With a suitable question, other events can be left out. However, as a historian Synder cannot present such questions one-sidedly not considering the history of the people in the Donbass. In doing so, he detaches himself from the quality criteria of his subject and becomes a demagogue of political interests of the present. He did it anyway. The decisive factor is that in the history of Western interpretations of this conflict, black boxes have been erected for weeks in order to eliminate all backstory before February 24, 2022. We should never aspect “truth” in any contribution. We are all just dealing with constructions of reality.

Posted by: Konrad | Feb 14 2023 15:40 utc | 316

Mark2 @ 311
Error on secound from last line should read redundant not refund.
Dam predictive text on mobile.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 14 2023 15:41 utc | 317

I asked him if he and his Dad ever cleaned out their garage together. Vacant Stare was all I got. His father was a good man, I knew him. But geez ….
Posted by: Exile | Feb 14 2023 15:21 utc | 314

Yep, this was my biggest failure with my sons. I thought our continued upward mobility would spare them repetitive menial tasks. Their interests were in the digital world. We finally got around to correcting it in their 30’s.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 14 2023 15:42 utc | 318

Konrad@317
It seems to me that there were various very clear ideological indications that Ukraine was planning genocide. For example:
The banning of the Russian language which, to be realistic, is the language of most Ukrainians- both of the last two Ukrainian nationalist Presidents, Poroshenko and Zelensky are Russian speakers for whom Ukrainian dialect is a challenge. Roberts must have come across plenty of people in Cork who could explain the importance of the language issue.
The employment of Azov and other neo-nazi formations in the Donbas. Incorporated into the Armed Forces and entrusted with political missions these militias regard Russians as vermin to be eradicated.
Basically Roberts would do well to follow b’s account of the run up to war. Be warned though: b is not looking for a seat in the House of Lords or tenure at a University.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 14 2023 15:56 utc | 319

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 14 2023 14:20 utc | 305
Posted by: Lantern Dude | Feb 14 2023 14:35 utc | 306

“The Butterfly Effect is a metaphor …

… For the Scientific concept of “Sensitive Dependence on Initial Conditions”.
It is not a metaphor.
It has a theoretical and mathematical definition.
It is the basis for the field of Chaos Theory.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 14 2023 15:57 utc | 320

Exile @ 314
Yes. I could give examples. But Yes. Yes.

Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 14 2023 16:00 utc | 321

Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Feb 14 2023 2:35 utc | 207
Lol, the US is almost entirely made of inmigrants.
It’s just that some are more entitled than others.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Feb 14 2023 16:02 utc | 322

A great article. That is a most important piece that takes all back to the key question. Why did Russia invade the Ukraine on February 24th 2022?
SMO, pre-emptive strike, invasion, call it what you will, the reason for why that happened is crucial.
It’s crucial because the war that followed is a side issue, for all the tragedy. What was necessary was that the Russians should be provoked to military action. Given that very few in the Western publics knew of preceding events, that military action, whatever form it took, could be, was, and remains portrayed as Russian aggression.
There are very few indeed among the peoples of the West who do not believe that the invasion was an unjustified attack by a powerful country on a weaker.
And most of us had the normal reaction to such an event. We reacted indignantly to that unjustified Russian attack and still do.
I call it a scam and so it was. We were scammed by our politicians and press into believing that the Russian invasion was an act of aggression. “b”‘s article above examines that scam and demonstrates that it was not such an act. In truth, and given the circumstances along the LoC, the Russians had no choice but to take military action to protect the Donbass.
Does it matter now? Whatever the rights and wrongs of it, what happened happened, and there’s nothing for us or the Ukrainians to do but live with the consequences. That early SMO has now become a bitter trial of strength between us and the Russians so why, this late in the day, examine the causes?
It does matter. For without that scam few of us in the Western publics would have backed the sanctions war. No realistic observer ever expected the military conflict with Russia to be won. That military conflict was always going to result in Ukrainian defeat. It was the sanctions war that was confidently expected to break Russia.
It hasn’t. Nor will it. It’s now time to pick up the pieces and retrieve what we can from the disaster our politicians have led us into.
I live in the UK and am I suppose the average provincial Englishman, with all the ways of looking at things that characterise my breed. Which suits me fine. But, almost by accident, in 2014/2105 and subsequently, I found myself following the events in the Donbass with close attention. So it was possible to follow the events of February 2022 with knowledge of the background. That is how I know “b’s article above is correct. Though I know none in my circle, and few in England itself it seems, who would see in that article anything but Russian apologia or propaganda.
So in that I differ from my fellows. I differ in another important respect. I have close contact with and great affection for the country I think of as my second Heimat. Germany.
English prejudices or not, I’ve wit enough to recognise that my own country plays no key role in this European disaster we are now witnessing. A lot of noise, true, but little clout. It is Germany and to a lesser extent France that occupies the key position.
It is Germany that will find itself worst hit by the blowback from the sanctions war. Worst hit, not because Germany will necessarily end up poorer than England. Worst hit because we in England have been on the path to economic failure for decades and Germany nowhere near so far along that path. Simply put, Germany will be worse hit than us because it has further to fall.
Scholz, Habeck, Baerbock, Merz. Were they in on the scam too? Or were they simply innocents towed along by Washington? I believe the former.
The Germans will not even start to extricate themselves from the position they are now in unless they start to look honestly at what their politicians did in the run up to February 24th. Of course Scholz had coalition difficulties. But he knew from the time he became Chancellor that the intention was to provoke the Russians to action, that in order to give reason to the German public for the unleashing of a sanctions war.
Part of that provocation, the most discreditable part, was the use of Ukrainian thugs wearing swastikas. Azov, Aidar, all the rest of such groups, had committed appalling atrocities in the Ukraine earlier. Had the Kiev forces got in to the Donbass there is no question of a doubt that they would have done so again. That is why Putin intervened.
I don’t see quite how the German public can come to terms with that. The distinguishing characteristic of German politics for the average German over the last many decades has been the confident assertion, “Nie Wieder!”. Will they be able to come to terms with the fact that their politicians were backing thugs wearing swastikas whose very raison d’etre was “Wieder!”
I doubt it. That is why my German friends will follow we English down.
……………….
Note. There are one or two points above I’m not sure of. The pattern of firing across the LoC detailed above differs from that given by Baud. I believe Baud to be correct but would like that examined. I’d seen the LDNR forces put at 20,000, rapidly increased to 40 – 50,000 at or just before the start of the SMO. I believe the very start of the SMO has been insufficiently examined. That seems to have been when the Russians took the heaviest casualties. I believe it was in those first few days, too, that the fate of the Ukrainian armed forces was sealed.
I’d also hope to see the Russian attempts to get Minsk 2 implemented examined in the light of the Russian peace attempts later on in the SMO, those attempts that culminated in the failure of the Istanbul peace talks.
And a couple of things that surprised me at the time. I’m no military expert. The first was that NATO training and equipping of the Ukrainians earlier had been so much more extensive than I think most of us realised. And when one looks at the type of equipment and training given – seems mostly to have been small unit training – we can understand how it was that the Ukrainians were not only cast as our proxies. They were cast as sacrificial proxies, fit only to provoke the Russians but never to defeat them. For there was no attempt made to give the Ukrainians combined arms capability.
The other thing? Scholz’s Moscow press conference just before the start of the SMO. Seems as if he was attempting to persuade the Russians he was still aiming for Minsk 2, while knowing that was never going to happen. There’s now an attempt in Germany to cast Scholz as the hard done by moderate. Judging by that press conference he was no Washington fall guy. He was a duplicitous accomplice.

Posted by: English Outsider | Feb 14 2023 16:14 utc | 323

Exile @314
I thought I was unique in having experienced that myself.
I hired an 18 year old kid last summer who lasted two days.
I asked him to sweep out the bed of the truck. He was holding the broom in front of him like a bow rake and trying to pull the debris towards him with the broad side of the broom. Stupidest thing I have ever seen.
I jumped up and showed him how to do it, and when I handed the broom back to him, he proceeded to use it like he had been doing before I showed him.
How does one go through life never having to clean up a kitchen spill with a broom?
On another job where we were maintaining some flower beds, he was literally laying on his side pulling weeds one at a time with one hand.

Posted by: David F | Feb 14 2023 16:15 utc | 324

Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 14 2023 16:00 utc | 322
I learned when interviewing young guys for the shop to ask at some point in the interview
“what kind of car do you own”
(The desired answer was some beater muscle car)
Followed by
“ do you work on it “
My favorite answer was:
“Na, I hardly do anything. my older brother and dad they work on cars. They just rebored out a 289 small block…..All I’ve really ever done is rebuild the transmission on my ‘72 Dodge, but that’s nuthin’
Insta Hire
The worst answer was:
“Oh yeah, I work on my car all the time. Why just last week I washed, waxed, AND vacuumed my car’
The kid was dead serious

Posted by: Exile | Feb 14 2023 16:19 utc | 325

It seems to me that there were various very clear ideological indications that Ukraine was
planning genocide. For example: The banning of the Russian language which, to be realistic,
is the language of most Ukrainians- both of the last two Ukrainian nationalist Presidents, Poroshenko
and Zelensky are Russian speakers for whom Ukrainian dialect is a challenge. Roberts must have come
across plenty of people in Cork who could explain the importance of the language issue.”
Posted by: bevin | Feb 14 2023 15:56 utc | 320
————————————————–
Yes, I referred to these laws in #36 and also claimed that such laws would be called “race laws” in the West with no doubt. Likewise, there is a purpose when we in the West speak admonishingly of “unprovoked Russian aggression” or an “imperialist war.”
Imagine Assad had enacted such cultural laws against Sunnis. When the West was planning to set up a new artificial state entity “Sunniastan” between Syria and Iraq on the pretext of helping the oppressed people (which of course was only about geopolitics). You can see the crass ideological contradictions in the West that arise when you try to simplify everything. The own population is always the central target group of this kind of propaganda.
And T. Snyder “steals” catchphrases from the Russian narrative and inverts them without mentioning the Donbass. This is a technique of domestic politics. It is impossible to play such irresponsible games in world politics, you would think. But, this is the west. I’ll deal with Snyder if these special tribunal show trials will really happen in spring.

Posted by: Konrad | Feb 14 2023 16:43 utc | 326

https://www.thepostil.com/the-military-situation-in-the-ukraine/
“As a former head of the Warsaw Pact forces in the Swiss strategic intelligence service, I observe with sadness—but not astonishment—that our services are no longer able to understand the military situation in Ukraine.”

Posted by: Matties | Feb 14 2023 17:13 utc | 327

Bemildred @316 : ” But they all know Windows, and Apple, etc. and other such ephemeral commercial crap.”
Know that many of the advances in computer operating systems over the last three or four decades have centered around making computers idiot-proof. The result of this has been the evolution of more potently idiotic idiots.
Keep in mind that with smartphones, it is the phone that is smart, not the user. My cat can enjoy herself interacting with a smartphone, so being able to use one isn’t an accomplishment a primate with a supposed bigger brain should be proud of.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 14 2023 17:23 utc | 328

According to Covert Action Magazine the US has already begun to fix the elections for the Rada later this year. They began by banning all opposition :
“..In the Office of the President of Ukraine, one of the methods of maintaining control over the parliament and meeting U.S. demands is the use of electronic voting through the “DYA” (Action) application, which is characterized by serious vulnerability and possibilities for rigging the results, which will allow the Zelensky regime to control the outcome of the electoral process.
“Currently, Ukrainian sources report that the Office of the President will go to the parliamentary elections for the Verkhovna Rada by three main political forces: “Servant of the People,” “Prytula’s Party” and “European Solidarity.”
“The very fact that the U.S. is preparing for the parliamentary elections in Ukraine is evident. A number of politicians, economists, media outlets and investigative journalists point out that the U.S. is deriving significant financial benefits from the conflict in Ukraine and that the U.S. military-industrial complex is receiving super profits. So no wonder they are trying to further manipulate Ukrainian politics—and to perpetuate a war that has cost the lives of tens of thousands of people already…”
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2023/02/14/evidence-emerges-united-states-is-planning-to-interfere-in-2023-parliamentary-elections-in-ukraine/?mc_cid=58ead33bce&mc_eid=f5d74d7021

Posted by: bevin | Feb 14 2023 17:30 utc | 329

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 13 2023 21:31 utc | 117
There’s nothing.
Small arms monitoring and OSCE never identified any real hardware going from RU to Ukraine.
What there IS is media reports and individual reports of cossacks and co volunteering (mercs) but there’s no actual evidence of russia moving anything large calibre.
None of the Mh17 story makes any sense unless you already know Area denial sector 3 in ukraine is luhansk. The number is [sector][battalion][unit] so a missile system 312 is Luhansk area battalion 1 unit 2 and a BUK telar (9k37) doesn’t operate without it’s command vehicle cos it’s got no IFF antenna of it’s own. (it has no way to differentiate targets by it self)
I also remember the rebels “captured” 2 of them. (cos they were fucked and left in a maintenance yard) 1 had a busted gearbox, 1 was set on fire and the 3rd loader was recoverable.

Posted by: S.O. | Feb 14 2023 17:31 utc | 330

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 14 2023 17:23 utc | 328
Thank you William. I think it is better for all of us not to get me started on what they have done to computers and the internet. I have a dumb phone, and it is used only for outgoing calls. I was fond of DOS. Never used Apple, since Mackintosh. Unable to avoid Windoze entirely, but got close. Last professional experience on Solaris 20+ years ago.
Smart phones are entertainment devices, mainly. Clumsy for anything else. Point & Click movies though, you’re good to go. And addictive. I can’t believe we let them into our schools.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 14 2023 17:39 utc | 331

Geoffrey Roberts, the Irish historian of WWII on the Eastern front and biographer of Zhukov, wrote that there is no confirmation of the Russian claim that the Ukrainians were preparing an offensive against the Donbass: “‘Now or Never’: The Immediate Origins of Putin’s Preventative War on Ukraine,” Journal of Military and Strategic Studies, Vol. 22, Issue 2.
Posted by: Susan | Feb 14 2023 12:43 utc | 296
##########################
As I am sure you know, lack of evidence is not evidence of absence.
It’s almost like you are you arguing that the 404 leadership was not committing a genocide for 8 years with the material, ideological and political support of NATO, the EU and the Americans.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 14 2023 18:04 utc | 332

Emmanuel Todd aptly observes that a large part of the US GNP is lawyers’ fees, and excessive health spending. If you compare what is comparable, I’m pretty sure that the US GNP is much lower than what is purported.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAUD1gxEWxE

Posted by: Nanabozho | Feb 14 2023 18:28 utc | 333

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAUD1gxEWxE
From 45:30

Posted by: Nanabozho | Feb 14 2023 18:29 utc | 334

Posted by: Konrad | Feb 14 2023 15:40 utc | 317
Posted by: bevin | Feb 14 2023 15:56 utc | 320
Re: Geoffrey Roberts, the Irish historian of WWII on the Eastern front and biographer of Zhukov, wrote that there is no confirmation of the Russian claim that the Ukrainians were preparing an offensive against the Donbass: “‘Now or Never’: The Immediate Origins of Putin’s Preventative War on Ukraine,” Journal of Military and Strategic Studies, Vol. 22, Issue 2.”
To: Konrad, Bevin, and a few others
These replies to my post are full of non sequiturs. Here is the link for the Roberts article: https://jmss.org/article/view/76584. First of all, he is not making the standard MSM argument about the war. Read it before you make wild assumptions about it. (And bevin, do you really think the Irish are candidates to be members of the House of Lords?!)
Second: Timothy Snyder is a raving lunatic neocon, and has nothing to do with Roberts, me, or anyone who is not nuts.
Third: I am well aware of the Ukrainian actions against the Donbas over the past years, which, however, are not pertinent to the specific question I raised, from b’s article: Is it or is not true that Ukraine was massing forces on the contact line to attack the DNR and LNR, at the point that Russia invaded? Is it not equally possible that they were massing forces there because they were expecting a Russian attack? I have been monitoring this situation in minute detail for about a year and a half, and I have never seen it proven one way or another, people just make assertions, depending on which side they’re on. (Ever heard of “confirmation bias”?)
Fourth: It is abundantly documented that Russia’s invasion was preemptive in the sense of preventing Ukraine from joining NATO. That does not necessarily mean they were preemptively striking to prevent Ukraine from striking first — even though they may have been.
Posted by: Susan | Feb 14 2023 12:43 utc | 296

Posted by: Susan | Feb 14 2023 20:21 utc | 335

Posted by: Susan | Feb 14 2023 20:21 utc | 335
Thanks for your reply Susan. The link doesn’t work (the dot at the end needs to be removed)
https://jmss.org/article/view/76584/56335
“There are many theories and interpretations of the reasoning behind Putin’s decision for war with Ukraine” (p.5).
That’s a good approach. Later, however, Roberts explains his method; he is not interested in an interpretation of the events before the war, he is only interested in what Putin personally said, what will become the foundation of his research:
“But for the moment the best guide we have to what was going on in Putin’s mind when he made his decisions for war is twofold: what he said and what he did.”
Putin’s speeches are the focus of his investigation, which is not free of bias because he tells his readers directly that Putin would lie. This is problematic. In addition, Roberts bases his essay on the history of “great personalities”. This is an approach that has been viewed extremely critically in modern science for years:
Footnote 7 is then just as revealing as the first reference from “On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians” from Putin’s summer 2021 speech:
What did Putin mean when he felt it was a threat for russia that Ukraine was pursuing some dangerous goals: “to cleanse the political environment of forces that call for a peaceful settlement of the crisis in south- eastern Ukraine, in the Donbass, and for good-neighborly relations with Russia” (Roberts p.9)?
And then: “He (Putin) complained bitterly about discrimination against the ethnic Russian habitants of Ukraine.”
What actions and events of other parties is Putin referring to ins this section? In Roberts historian article, it doesn’t matter what others do. Roberts quotes Putin, but he does not discuss the historical backgrounds in the origin of such quotes. Well, but he is focused on Putin’s words and he interprets his thoughts – without classifying them – as the fine-tuning of the coming Russian attack.
The researcher’s approach and handling of event history appears to be limited to the Russian President’s orbit of action alone, all other parties are excluded, which serves to explain why Robert does not discuss the Ukrainian troop deployment as a threat to Russia at all, as it seems to be the case in Berhhard (MoA) article. Roberts can do it though. But we have to be critical and need to explain to ourself, why his approach is limited and why he might have chosen it.
Therefore, you are welcome to pursue MoA even further, because Bernhard is more likely to pursue an interpretative approach to historical presentation that involves far more than one object of investigation, but includes all relevant parties and events.

Posted by: Konrad | Feb 14 2023 21:59 utc | 336

Posted by: bevin | Feb 14 2023 17:30 utc | 329

According to Covert Action Magazine the US has already begun to fix the elections for the Rada later this year. (…) one of the methods of maintaining control over the parliament and meeting U.S. demands is the use of electronic voting…

Thanks for the info. Somebody has to see to it, after all, that Blackrock’s and Monsanto’s vital interests are respected. And such concerns have always been the task of the US government.
Seems they also rigged the latest German Bundestag election, so the pro-Russian Armin Laschet lost the chancellorship to Scholz (Baerbock was too far behind). How they got rid of Armin Laschet I ‘ve described in this former post.. (if the link doesn’t fully work look for item @157)

Posted by: grunzt | Feb 14 2023 22:13 utc | 337

Half of the Ukrainian army, some 120,000 men recruited and trained during the last 7 years, were stationed near the ceasefire line and ready to go. On the opposing side only some 40,000 men were under arms.
Is there a source anywhere for the above?

Posted by: sean | Feb 14 2023 23:23 utc | 338

This ex-Navy Seal claims the reveal on the Nordstream bombing was deliberate by the USG.
https://www.tiktok.com/@adamnewbold_2/video/7198202608513715499

Posted by: hidflect | Feb 15 2023 4:02 utc | 339

Re: Posted by: AG | Feb 13 2023 17:41 utc | 13

my last question (hopefully):
If AFU attack was so clear, why not be smart let it happen and call in UN-SC as Russia?
Why attack first?
I will never get it.

You can’t possibly be serious.
Russia can never win the “Optics” War – besides – the AFU were attacking Donbas in the days leading up to Russia’s RESPONSE.
So yes – you completely prove why your own question is invalid.
Russia DID NOT LAUNCH AN ATTACK, it merely responded to attacks from the AFU which were ongoing!

Posted by: Julian | Feb 15 2023 4:10 utc | 340

@ Konrad | Feb 14 2023 21:59 utc | 336
A historian who disdains, like, actual history is so post-modern.
Awesome!

Posted by: John Kennard | Feb 15 2023 4:38 utc | 341

@Aguilar 304
thx for pointing out in better English.
But there MUST be info out there that could prove it.
There are e.g. the Beregini “leaks” from 2 weeks ago regarding AFU attack plans. But I have no way of varifying.

Posted by: AG | Feb 15 2023 10:17 utc | 342

@Julian 340
but how do we “prove” this AFU attack to others?
Those who do not convene on this site.

Posted by: AG | Feb 15 2023 10:21 utc | 343

Ultimately, there is only one to blame for this war: Mankinds’ biggest liar of all time Vladolf Putler and his gang of idiotic Kremlnazi morons…RuZZia is a doomed shithole country…

Posted by: Jeff the Beast | Feb 15 2023 12:05 utc | 344

@susan 335
@Konrad 336
thx for the exchange about this issue.
I read the Roberts piece when it came out which is a while ago. I do not recall every detail of it.
But as Konrad says, the horizon of argument was very specific.
He does basically diplomatic history based on well accessable sources.
No muckracking there. (Roberts isnt that young any more)
One major weakness, I believe, if one wanted to use Roberts in discussion to convice others, because that´s what its´all about eventually I believe, it lacks the other players and several aspects of the countdown to war, in nuce: regarding Ukraine Army.
E.g. Roberts is getting into the nuclear weapons statement by Z in Munich, which is not convincing because you don´t acquire those over night.
As I have stated elsewehere – if there is material that would prove that Ukrainian attack on Donbas was imminent not via circumstantial evidence like shelling but real decisions, marching orders etc. (or possibly the telephone conversation on Febr. 13th between Z and Biden and diplomaitc secret minutes before and after) those should be somehow unearthed.
I am still hoping to get info from someone who knows these things better than I do about the Beregini AFU-attack orders “leaks” from 2 weeks ago via Telegram.
OR: a “Hersh” would be needed on this investigative topic.

Posted by: AG | Feb 15 2023 13:16 utc | 345

@susan 335
@Konrad 336
p.s. as someone correctly pointed out to me on MoA, even if it were to be proven the AFU was to attack Donbas EU/USA would have found a round-about to still create justification, such es Donbas being a domestic issue and thus RF has no right.
but still the level of hatred and distortion we are experiencing has been facilitated by the apparent bluntness of the Russian attack in the public eye (which of course I consider only a major projection. But who cares what I “think”)

Posted by: AG | Feb 15 2023 13:22 utc | 346

Russia began building its forces in early 2021, well before any Ukrainian buildup. I’m sure it warms the cockles of Putin’s heart to see how well his propaganda is received.
Posted by: willful knowledge | Feb 14
2023 2:21 utc | 203
Yeah I wonder how that evil Putin got the OSCE in his pocket? Like the US with the OPCW. A real masterstroke…

Posted by: Gene Poole | Feb 15 2023 21:00 utc | 347

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 14 2023 15:57 utc | 321
Thanks Arch. I went onto Wiki after reading your contribution to my chat/reply to OppKnoc. Something I should do more often, before putting fingers to keyboard. The impetus for the original comment was that I thought OppKnoc was being petty and needlessly offhand with regard to an interesting, and yes somewhat poetic to my mind, comment about the possibility that the Bar’s ongoing conversation could have a wider effect. So was intrigued to find this quote in the Wiki article.
“Lorenz originally used a seagull causing a storm but was persuaded to make it more poetic with the use of butterfly and tornado by 1972”
Thank you for clearing that up for me. I always enjoy reading your posts alongside many other’s that represent my own thinking/opinions.

Posted by: Lantern Dude | Feb 16 2023 12:37 utc | 348

@ Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 17 2023 2:05 utc | 109 – Nuland outlines US goals in Ukraine: The Maidan “midwife” hopes for conquest of Crimea and regime change in Russia – RT
AND AGAIN:
In retrospect, CONSIDERING UNDISPUTABLE FACTS LIKE THIS: [https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/all-seeing-eye-can-russia-break-through%5D
“The totality of the NATO and ‘Five Eyes’ infrastructure is being utilized 24/7 as a sort of vast rear-end cloud-service and mega-processing/computational-cycle capacity for Ukraine’s frontline forces. Hundreds of satellites, including dozens of imaging ones with 5cm/pixel resolution, skim every inch and quarter of Russian territory, searching for actionable hidden targets. The data is then processed and collated by thousands of fulltime NATO/Five Eyes analysts working in distribution centers all over the world, then fed directly to the Ukrainian crews by way of Starlink and other datalinks, which Ukraine can then sub-distribute via their innovative ‘Nettle’ integrated system to feed those targets to a variety of sector artillery and other systems.”
I HAD COMMENTED NOT LONG AGO [see- Posted by: cegnovelty-esq | Feb 5 2023 21:51 utc | 104] THAT:
“…My expectation at the onset was that Russia would have finished their task in Ukraine within one month, applying the “killing the ant with a sledge hammer”, knowing that the US and its allies will mess things up for them if allowed time to mobilize and enter the conflict as they had done since…. …THE RUSSIAN LEADERSHIP MUST ACT DECISIVELY NOW TO GET THIS MONKEY OFF THEIR NECK. This grinding-it-out type of warfare (in the context of a superpower) is, to say the least, absurd and embarrassing! …And Russia seems to me, by a general assessment of its responses so far in Ukraine, to be doing more of the talk (complaining) than a decisive action to save its soul from this rampaging hegemonic war empire….”
YOU SEE, TO BE VICTORIOUS (WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE SHORT & LONG-TERM OBJECTIVES OF THE RUSSIAN SMO), THERE WAS A REAL NEED AT THE EARLY WEEKS OF THE SMO TO HAVE TOTALLY FINISHED-OFF THE MANPOWER/WAR-INFRASTRUCTURE OF THEIR UKRAINIAN-PROXY SUCH THAT THE NATO & ‘Five Eyes’ MASSIVE INTEL SUPPLY WOULD HAVE BEEN FORECLOSED. This Russia-Ukraine war is distinguishable from the US-Afghanistan, Iraq or even Vietnam only by the fact of being a direct cross-border war to the Russia Army. In this case therefore, massive decapitation strikes and subsequent deployment of Special Forces to capture whoever still remained the Kiev regime would have done the job swifter and at little cost to Russian military manpower and equipment. In such a scenario, Russia would have since been in total occupation of Ukraine, a strong position from which facing whatever the US-NATO throws at it thereafter (militarily/sanctions) would be strategically-convenient, so to say, (incomparable to the current situation where NATO have vast and easily accessible parts of Ukraine to “waybill” their ammunition and mercenaries for Zelensky). In fact, you recall that Western leaders like Borris Johnson had already planned for Zelensky to flee abroad to form a “government-in-exile” as early as March 2022.
How about that!
Just being retrospective!
But it did not happen that way, and even now it’s not looking like the “killer-punch” will ever be applied by Russia, eventhough it still remains an implementable option now since NATO have not yet deployed/joined the war theatre DIRECTLY. Well, for whatever reason or fear (of nuclear exchanges), I ALWAYS BELIEVE THAT THE US/NATO WILL NOT GIVE UP THEIR PROVOCATIONS BASED ON THEIR ASSESSMENT OF RUSSIA’S STATE OF MIND IN THE COURSE OF PROSECUTING THIS WAR.
Nevertheless, as an enlightened and unrepentant believer in “indivisible security” of nations, “spheres of influence” of Superpowers, multipolarism and anti-hegemony, I WILL ALWAYS SUPPORT RUSSIA’S QUEST TO EXTRICATE ITSELF FROM THE AVOWED COMMITMENT OF THE US WAR EMPIRE, i.e. “to defeat and weaken Russia such that it will not be able to exert power (militarily, economically, politically and even culturally) beyond its boarders”. IT IS A TASK EVERY NON-DELUDED, NON-HOODWINKED AND NON-USA-COMPLIANT SOVEREIGN NATION LIKE DPRK & IRAN MUST COMMIT TO DEFEND FOR THE SAKE OF POSTERITY. (Note: I have realistic reservations about China’s strong commitment to this cause holistically, regardless of the Taiwan quagmire).
I always wish the Russian Federation well in leading this fight against the evil bully called USA.
NOW GUYS, YOU CAN BEGIN YOUR NAME-CALLING FUN – Troll, or Whatever!
Remember, that’s more of the reason we always condemn the West’s MSN. My question is: Can’t we show that we are different here- accomodating other divergent, somewhat opposing but thoughtful views/comments? I suppose that we’re all in the same boat against the unipolarist-hegemony. Mutli-dimensional viewpoints do enrich every discourse. After all, without the benefit of such divergent viewpoints they receive, the political/military heads that prosecute this SMO wouldn’t be modifying their strategy/tactics from time to time.
LET’S ALWAYS SEE OTHERS’ COMMENTS WITH A CIVIL, DECOROUS & THOUGHTFUL MINDSET. HOSTILITY IN THIS REGARD IS A SELF-INHIBITING APPROACH!

Posted by: cegnovelty-esq | Feb 17 2023 18:37 utc | 349