Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 2, 2023
On The Media Of ‘Russiagate’ And Related Fake Stories

Last week Matt Taibbi, with access to Twitter's internal papers, debunked the fake Hamilton 68 propaganda dashboard that was used to create many stories about alleged Russian disinformation. I had done similar five years earlier but had no access to the original data. There were enough secondary indications to conclude that the dashboard was a sham. Still, have the case made with primary data is a valuable addition.

There has been no Russian influence or disinformation campaign.

Two days later the Columbia Journalism Review (CJR) published a five part longread from an 18 month long investigation into the 'Russigate' drama and on how the media had cooked it up.

CJR's editor wrote the intro:

No narrative did more to shape Trump’s relations with the press than Russiagate. The story, which included the Steele dossier and the Mueller report among other totemic moments, resulted in Pulitzer Prizes as well as embarrassing retractions and damaged careers. For Trump, the press’s pursuit of the Russia story convinced him that any sort of normal relationship with the press was impossible.

For the past year and a half, CJR has been examining the American media’s coverage of Trump and Russia in granular detail, and what it means as the country enters a new political cycle. Investigative reporter Jeff Gerth interviewed dozens of people at the center of the story—editors and reporters, Trump himself, and others in his orbit.

The result is an encyclopedic look at one of the most consequential moments in American media history.

Gerth's, who is 78, is a longtime mainstream investigative reporter who has written for major media outlets. The result of his investigation is indeed encyclopedic, detailed and very damaging.

The four parts are in chronological order and I recommend to read them all to grasp the real extend of the media's failures.

For those who do not have time to read the four lengthy pieces there is a Foxnews piece with a decent summary of their content.

Gerth ends his review with a personal afterword:

I’ve avoided opining in my more than fifty years as a reporter. This time, however, I felt obligated to weigh in. Why? Because I am worried about journalism’s declining credibility and society’s increasing polarization. The two trends, I believe, are intertwined.

My main conclusion is that journalism’s primary missions, informing the public and holding powerful interests accountable, have been undermined by the erosion of journalistic norms and the media’s own lack of transparency about its work. This combination adds to people’s distrust about the media and exacerbates frayed political and social differences.

My final concern, and frustration, was the lack of transparency by media organizations in responding to my questions. I reached out to more than sixty journalists; only about half responded. Of those who did, more than a dozen agreed to be interviewed on the record. However, not a single major news organization made available a newsroom leader to talk about their coverage.

Most Americans (60 percent) say they want unbiased news sources. Yet 86 percent think the media is biased. The consequences of this mismatch are all too obvious: 83 percent of the audience for Fox News leans Republican while 91 percent of the readers of the New York Times lean Democratic.

Walter Lippmann wrote about these dangers in his 1920 book Liberty and the News. Lippmann worried then that when journalists “arrogate to themselves the right to determine by their own consciences what shall be reported and for what purpose, democracy is unworkable.”

I have the same concern that Gerth and Lippmann expressed.

The three main culprits of the Russiagate sham, the News Times, the Washington Post and CNN, have yet to report on the CFR story. The probably fear to admit that their reporting on Russiagate, which in itself created large parts of the story, was full of mistakes and omissions because of their partisan view.

I have written dozens of pieces of media criticism and on the media's failure. My concerns about systematic bias of, and 'official' influence on, media has steadily increased. False stories are a major ingredient for cooking up wars. The Hamilton dashboard, the Steele dossier and other Russiagate elements were likely invented for that larger purpose.

Objectivity in the media has been damaged. It is now threatened to become even worse. Leonard Downie Jr., a former executive editor of The Washington Post, has published an opinion piece that argues for even less objectivity.

Opinion Newsrooms that move beyond ‘objectivity’ can build trust

Amid all the profound challenges and changes roiling the American news media today, newsrooms are debating whether traditional objectivity should still be the standard for news reporting. “Objectivity” is defined by most dictionaries as expressing or using facts without distortion by personal beliefs, bias, feelings or prejudice. Journalistic objectivity has been generally understood to mean much the same thing.

But increasingly, reporters, editors and media critics argue that the concept of journalistic objectivity is a distortion of reality. They point out that the standard was dictated over decades by male editors in predominantly White newsrooms and reinforced their own view of the world. They believe that pursuing objectivity can lead to false balance or misleading “bothsidesism” in covering stories about race, the treatment of women, LGBTQ+ rights, income inequality, climate change and many other subjects. And, in today’s diversifying newsrooms, they feel it negates many of their own identities, life experiences and cultural contexts, keeping them from pursuing truth in their work.

Having the news reported through the tinted glasses of an ever increasing number of 'identities' will not make today's generally bad media quality  ny better.

It will only increase the problem of partisanship and bias that leads to a ever more disunited public.

Thinking about it: Who has an interest in that?

Comments

@bevin | Feb 3 2023 3:56 utc | 98
Of all the sad parade of clowns, Madcow is the one most likely to blame all of “Russia” and setimes “Moscow” not just “pootin” (pronounced while spitting twice, which takes great skill).
Rachel Maddow: All Russia. All The Time

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 3 2023 4:06 utc | 101

It’s too bad Taibbi torpedo’d his reputation by becoming a partisan hack

Posted by: John | Feb 3 2023 4:27 utc | 102

Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 3 2023 0:42 utc | 81
Interesting I did not know Xi was at the other end of that conversation. This makes it all the more disgusting.
Posted by: K | Feb 3 2023 1:35 utc | 85

Melaleuca is mis-remembering. Xi and Trump were dining at Mar-a-Lago while missiles were fired at targets in Syria. Not the night Soleimani was assassinated.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-trump/trump-ordered-syrian-air-strike-before-dinner-with-xi-idUSKBN1792W4

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 3 2023 4:29 utc | 103

If there weren’t lies involved in the story, it wouldn’t make the corporate news media.
As many have noted, accept nothing as the truth.
Always do your homework, and use your critical thinking skills
To cipher what little truth is actually presented.
I know people who still think that Russia helped Trump win in 2020,
And that Trump is a Russian agent.
Can’t help them. All I can do is humor them.

Posted by: Theodore Roosevelt | Feb 3 2023 4:30 utc | 104

*2016

Posted by: Theodore Roosevelt | Feb 3 2023 4:31 utc | 105

What scared the Establishment about Trump so much that they’d went full scale color revolution against Trump ?
Posted by: Exile | Feb 2 2023 17:52 utc | 5

I am of a much different idea than most of the posters, here. Trump was targeted because he surrounded himself with realists who were opposed, first, to the manipulation of government and the public discourse by the intelligence agencies (Dept. of State, CIA, MIA) and policing apparatus (DoJ, FBI)–these would be the people who came in with Gen. Michael Flynn and Col. Douglas Macgregor–and then, more importantly a group of people (which largely overlapped) that was keen on re-orienting the US from a Russophobic/China-philic strategy to a China-phobic/Russophilic strategy.
Obama/Hilary’s “pivot to Asia” was intended to reign in China’s economic expansion and counter the SCO/OBOR initiatives while shifting the US’s manufacturing force away from China and towards more easily controlled countries like Vietnam, Thailand, and Indonesia. At the same time, back in the last years of the Obama era there was a significant increase in saber-rattling towards Russia.
What seems clear to me, now, is that the ramping up of hostilities in Ukraine was planned for way back in the later years of Obama’s tenure, but Trump’s team came in and put a halt to all of that. #Russiagate was invented to keep that hostility up and in the forefront of the Western public’s shared mind for the duration of Trump’s preznitcy.
Col. MacGregor has stated publicly that in his opinion Trump’s greatest failure in pushing through his agenda happened because, once he was elected, the GoP/Republican establishment stepped in and started telling him “Hey, we can help you with a lot of this stuff, but we’ll need you to appoint ______ to that position, there, before we’ll cooperate.” Inevitably, those appointments were people who had been carefully selected to maneuver Trump into betraying his band of like-minded outsiders and back up the whole “Russiagate” nonsense. That traitorous creep “Maddog” Mattis is an excellent example of that kind of dissembling.
And of course, in the end Trump himself just isn’t a very bright person. He’s made lots of money, sure, but apparently he’d be several hundreds of millions of dollars richer if he had simply put his inheritance into blue-chip stocks and let it ride all this time. Or, to put it another way: he’s lost wayyyyy more money than he has ever actually “earned.”
So: not very bright, easily manipulated, easily distracted from his political goals, and as a consequence easily diverted from making nice with Russia–because this US-led war against Russia was conceived of way back in the 00s, long before 2014.

Posted by: Pacifica_Advocate | Feb 3 2023 4:37 utc | 106

@104
I like it.
Good analysis, IMO.
And I agree, Trump is too stupid and arrogant to just let his money ride in stocks.
He HAD to speculate.
Because that’s who he is; a gambling whore of a man who thinks he can win whenever he wants to,
against whomever he faces.
His hubris outweighs his wisdom.

Posted by: Theodore Roosevelt | Feb 3 2023 4:50 utc | 107

Tks for the encouragement, Rosie.
Back to the original post by b:

It will only increase the problem of partisanship and bias that leads to a ever more disunited public.
Thinking about it: Who has an interest in that?

The answer to this is clearly: the people who want to control how the US’s scam “elections” turn out.
That would be: the CIA, FBI, DIA, NSA, and–overseeing them all as some sort of Cthulu beast–the Dept. of State, via the CFR and in partnership with Davos/Bilderberg/the Rhodes Foundation and, of course, Israel.
To Scorpion, NemesisCalling (haven’t seen hide nor hair of that creep in a good long while), and all other of such Nazi ilk, I shall point out in advance that the CFR, Davos, Bilderberg, and Rhodes groups are overwhelmingly made up of blonde-haired blue-eyed Norman sorts who carry titles and mostly sided with the Nazis, back in the day.
Israel is definitely a minority, in the crowd–but yes, it is part of the crowd.

Posted by: Pacifica_Advocate | Feb 3 2023 5:18 utc | 108

Posted by: Pacifica_Advocate | Feb 3 2023 4:37 utc | 104
I think there’s some truth to that but it leaves out an important factor for why some elements of the unelected government bureaucracy wanted Trump to begin with: #MIGA
Underneath all the pomp and rallies about making America “great again”, Trump was the Israel first candidate and the first candidate choice of the Israel lobby and Sheldon Adelson. It paid off – depending on your views of the situation over there spanning the past 6 years – and definitely according to the far right Zionist faction.
And while I’m talking about Israel, which country does everyone *really* think most probably interfered in the election on Trump’s behalf? Russia or the settler colonial apartheid hellhole that masquerades as a modern democracy in the Middle East? I bet if anyone got ahold of some leaks or did some deep dives, there would be all kinds of shit relevant to “stop the steal” and “the election was hacked” with Zionist fingerprints all over it.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 3 2023 6:40 utc | 109

The following links only scratch the surface of Israeli meddling in US (and other countries’) elections. As the Internet is subject to a Search Engine Optimization blackout here, I cannot find the name of the Israeli firm that managed important telephony functions in the US prior to 9/11, but Israeli companies, staffed with “former” intelligence officers and Mossad spooks operate in all sectors of the US domestic economy. To think that Israeli firms aren’t also somehow involved in elections would be a bit naive, IMO. BTW – If anyone recalls the name of that firm (I wanted to say “Teldocs”), I’d appreciate it because I’d like to bookmark or PDF it before it becomes permanently memory-holed. But anyway, related to election interference I present the following:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/israel-us-elections-intervention-russia-noam-chomsky-donald-trump-a8470481.html
https://www.mintpressnews.com/how-israel-spies-meddle-in-elections-and-hack-activists-with-impunity/255099/
https://geopolitics.co/2020/10/29/100-times-president-trump-supported-israel/
https://medium.com/@dillontelem/israel-is-worse-than-russia-in-us-election-interference-fe1e79774dbf
It should also be noted that Jeffrey Epstein was a Mossad honeypot/blackmail operation. The Zionists have operatives, moles, and willing Israel-firsters sprinkled all throughout the American government and have for a long time.
It sure is interesting how the US corporate MSM on both “sides” of the political aisle treat any such topics like the proverbial third rail. And what was I saying about 9/11 again? Isn’t it amazing that not a single daily newspaper, alternative news site (other than Mintpress News), or television network failed to take even a casual interest in these declassified documents?
https://www.mintpressnews.com/newly-released-fbi-docs-shed-light-on-apparent-mossad-foreknowledge-of-9-11-attacks/258581/

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 3 2023 6:54 utc | 110

Posted by: Ed | Feb 3 2023 2:56 utc | 93
Thanks for the reply. I agree – on anything of real importance to the real ‘owners’ (cue George Carlin’s bit) of the country, it matters not whether the Dems or Repubs are in power.
Why does the American working class (and PMC class – I know plenty of right-wing Trump/GOP supporting employees of tech and fossil fuel firms) growl at each other over things like “critical race theory” or kneeling during the anthem or whatnot? Because the corporate media in service to private finance/capital set the agenda and prioritize for us the things we “should” care about. In recent years it has become much more siloed than in the past, but the “culture wars” have been with us forever and continue to persist precisely because it’s far better for the ruling elite that we take to the streets or social media and shout obscenities in each others’ faces over issues that are really quite confined to minor segments of the population than it is for the public to be educated on how the working class is being screwed by the titans of private finance/capital (and the politicians on both “sides” that they own). People are remarkably susceptible to such propaganda. I can point to regular respected commentators here at MoA who have fallen for the culture war bullshit. Most don’t even realize they’re being propagandized; even the “woke” on “the left” or “red pilled” on “the right.”

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 3 2023 7:03 utc | 111

What scared the Establishment about Trump so much that they’d went full scale color revolution against Trump ?
Posted by: Exile | Feb 2 2023 17:52 utc | 5
Putin, Erdogan and Xi are also centrists and moderate reformers.
Clearly, the bad guys don’t need to improve, only to change for the worse.

Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 7:21 utc | 112

Back in the day, pre-1990, when I was a still daily consumer of printed news, there was a clear delineation of what was reporting and what was editorial commentary.
It is safe to assume now that everything is editorial. People will only pay now for the content that they like.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 2 2023 18:58 utc | 24
In the 1980s, what you call “objective reporting was still available at the time” was also full of anti-communist, anti-unionist and neoliberal bias – just read Marcuse.
It has always been that even scientific papers are nothing more than what you call opinion articles that lack foundation.
The media has always been very bad, and it’s only recently gotten worse.

Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 7:24 utc | 113

The media has always been very bad, and it’s only recently gotten worse.
Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 7:24 utc | 111
Yes, thank you for saying that, objectivity is an opinion, get over it. You can call the set of ideas that say 90% of people can agree on consensus reality or something like that, but you are still deciding by voting.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 3 2023 7:42 utc | 114

I don’t think this was media “failings”
Without Russiagate they couldn’t propagandise against Russia with their hysteria (Putin installed a president!)
The United States is going to wage a world war against Russia and China and so for Russia they came out with Russiagate and with China they fabricated the “muh Uyghur genocide!”

Posted by: RedArmy | Feb 3 2023 8:01 utc | 115

I believe this is the most enjoyable series of posts/conversation I have ever read here in my 6 years of daily visits to MoA with so many interesting & reasonable perspectives of the geo political shifts of the past 6 years.
Scorpion-frog parable of Trump – HRC explains their relationship and the way General Flynn was taken down gave neocons leverage over Trump.
Trump´s main sponsors were Isreal & Big Oil hence the take down of Obama´s carefully negotiated Iran nuke deal and Obama’s transaltantic & pacific trade deals. Instead we had US embassy moved to Jerusalem , the Abraham Accords , Yemen War and holding onto Syrian Oil with continued arming of kurds with the assasination of General Solemani claimed by Trump but likely I suspect only after the fact to help out Bibi.
The Ukraine NATO hot war could have started sooner under HRC but given that Biden waited a year because they werent ready I doubt NATO could have trained their army up more than a couple of years quicker.
Trump certainly supported the NATO/Pfizer psy & bio weapons clique with their ideas that WW3 would be a bio war with no material collateral damages probably because he knew America is too de-industrialized to fight any hot war other than with sub launched nukes.

Posted by: Gatt | Feb 3 2023 8:56 utc | 116

An obvious fact:
The biggest influence on the US elections is the US national security institutions, followed by Israel, then the EU, then Japan, and only then probably Russia

Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 9:21 utc | 117

@Tom_Q_Collins:
Yap. Complete agreement.
But let’s not exaggerate, here: CFR/DIA/NSA/CIA are the people calling the shots. Israel is a distant (albeit wealthy and well-attired, via Hollywood) third player, and a convenient excuse for Norman types to blame when things go wrong.

Posted by: Pacifica_Advocate | Feb 3 2023 9:27 utc | 118

Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 9:21 utc | 115
I doubt the EU has much influence on the US elections, even less than the others.

Posted by: laguerre | Feb 3 2023 9:37 utc | 119

Opport Knocks | Feb 3 2023 4:29 utc | 101
@ K | Feb 3 2023 1:35 utc | 85
Ah. Yes. Ok. I am indeed misremembering.
I guess Trump’s many egregious obscenities have blurred in my memory after a few years.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 3 2023 10:17 utc | 120

US faking terrorist threat in Istanbul, closes consulates.
Happened a couple of days ago. This type of nonsense propaganda will continue until the elections in May, and maybe after. Who know, maybe the US will commit a terrorist act against Turkiye through its islamist proxies.
Quote from article:
““If there is a terror threat and this threat is against an ally, shouldn’t this country inform us from where and who this threat is coming from? They tell us ‘We have concrete intelligence about a threat, and therefore, we close the consulates.’ But who will attack and where? No information on this,” Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu said at a joint press conference with visiting Argentinian Foreign Minister Santiago Cafiero in Istanbul on Feb. 3.
Nine Western countries, the U.S., France, Germany, Britain, Netherlands, Italy, Belgium, Switzerland and Sweden temporarily closed their consulates following issuing security alerts for their citizens over an alleged terror attack that would target foreigners in downtown Istanbul.”
https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkiye-summons-nine-western-envoys-over-consulate-closures-180587

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Feb 3 2023 11:59 utc | 121

I doubt the EU has much influence on the US elections, even less than the others.
Posted by: laguerre | Feb 3 2023 9:37 utc | 117
The tendency among the American center-left to praise EU/France/Germany is not without its sources.

Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 13:05 utc | 122

Excellent read b, Will get to the full reports later.
“The Hamilton dashboard, the Steele dossier and other Russiagate elements were likely invented for that larger purpose.”
So we’re the idiotically named Institute of Statecraft , and as Craig Murray’s blog boilerplates
“the Integrity Initiative, the 77th Brigade, Bellingcat, the Atlantic Council and hundreds of other warmongering propaganda operations,..”
It’s as if we are in our face, mad cackling lunatics gas light is with their fantasies of Power and Magik with spells, runes and Masonic symbolism!
Culminating today with the Bundestag confirming that 88 tanks in total will be delivered with the already promised 14.
14 88 !
The fuckers from the Mockingbird stables are the NAZIS de jour. with their Ken and Barbified presstitutes flinging their filthy sordid porn onto us daily. Of course the destruction of an old failed controlling church mythology is being replace with a brand new Origin Story to be developed over the next few generations. In the hope of a future Russophobic, Sinophobic, Afrophobic , Asiaphobic etc , master Race of Pale Wokeness and Gender fluid superior ‘race’ , to lay claim on all these Peoples World again. And again of course this has been long imagined and planned by our great literary professors and giants – Tolkien in this facet – going back centuries; Marx and Mills included , all the way to the post Roman Christian ravings.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 3 2023 13:09 utc | 123

It would be easier to take seriously the notion of popular distrust of the media, were the population to start mocking the debunked narratives on Yugoslavia, Rwanda, and Liberia/Sierra Leone. One could easily name other matters as well, but these are a quick test in the line of stated versus revealed distrust in media.

Posted by: Johan Meyer (2) | Feb 3 2023 13:21 utc | 124

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 3 2023 7:42 utc | 112
Many times people even believe that things that are heavily questioned by the scientific community (and many other common people) are necessarily objectively true, simply because an industry-funded propaganda campaign says so. They consider all those who disagree with this conclusion to be pseudoscience enthusiasts and conspiracy theorists (the bait-and-switch vocabulary invented by the CIA to cover up its conspiracies).
For example, “objective reports” on the safety of 5G are overwhelmingly opposed by a large number of medical papers, but many proponents of 5G still believe they are based on “science” and “consensus”.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_sdt=0%2C5&q=emf+exposure+disease+meta+analysis&btnG=
Obviously, not what the majority of the scientific community thinks is correct, but the mainstream media has lied about what the majority of the scientific community thinks about 5G.
If we should agree with vaccines based on the majority opinion of the scientific community, then the inevitable conclusion is that we should agree that 5G is harmful to health.
As another example, many smarty-pants claim that no evidence exists to support a relationship between the MMR vaccine and autism after the case studies of the 1990s, but this is clearly not the case.
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/An-Investigation-of-the-Association-Between-MMR-and-Yazbak/664d0c690321aeb899f55ca8ae7f2daaf625b758
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15287394.2011.573736

Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 13:45 utc | 125

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 2 2023 18:58 utc | 24
There is also the common media hoax of the center-left promoting a “mixed economy” represented by Sweden, France and Germany to Americans.
Despite the fact that the current richest people in the world are French, Sweden (and Ukraine) have a higher Gini coefficient of wealth than the US. Macron is using French pensions to pay for war mania, while Germany’s wealth Gini coefficient is comparable to Brazil, Saudi Arabia and Haiti.
The belief that one of the European/Canadian/Australian/New Zealand/Japanese/South Korean and American models is bound to be very superior is exactly the general media scam in these countries.
Just like regarding the treatment of covid pandemic, the fact is that Chinese way was the best, but the debate is between the centrist-lockdown way represented by Western Europe and the centrist-non-lockdown way represented by the US.

Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 14:13 utc | 126

The tendency among the American center-left to praise EU/France/Germany is not without its sources.
Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 13:05 utc | 120
Doesn’t sound much like secret influence on the elections.

Posted by: laguerre | Feb 3 2023 14:24 utc | 127

They believe that pursuing objectivity can lead to false balance or misleading “bothsidesism” in covering stories about race, the treatment of women, LGBTQ+ rights, income inequality, climate change and many other subjects.
Inevitably, they hide behind arguments involving race and gender, but their motivation and intention has utterly zilch to do with either – their sole intention is to covertly “justify” the weaponisation of warped misinforming “opinions” as political propaganda. Simple as that. Nothing to do with race, nothing to do with gender. Propaganda and political manipulation is the only issue at stake.

Posted by: BM | Feb 3 2023 14:40 utc | 128

Doesn’t sound much like secret influence on the elections.
Posted by: laguerre | Feb 3 2023 14:24 utc | 125
Apparently, this is similar to Trump’s praise of Israel.
If this means that the EU’s influence is not secret, then neither is Israel’s influence on Trump.
Considering how the Democrats praise the FBI, the FBI’s influence on the U.S. election after 2015 is no secret by your standards.
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/07/24/growing-partisan-differences-in-views-of-the-fbi-stark-divide-over-ice/
https://www.apmresearchlab.org/motn-fbi-trust-jan-2023

Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 14:45 utc | 129

Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 13:45 utc | 123
Yes, thank you, and it is everywhere.
“It’s not the things your don’t know, that gets you, it’s the things your know that ain’t so.”
And we have boatloads of sort of “information” that these days.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 3 2023 14:57 utc | 130

What I can not figure out is why the Establishment/Deep State went so nutso against Trump. Trump was not a radical change agent. Trump was basically a modest reformer.
What scared the Establishment about Trump so much that they’d went full scale color revolution against Trump ?
Posted by: Exile | Feb 2 2023 17:52 utc | 5

As I recall, Trump’s 2016 campaign heavily emphasized reducing the deficit and “draining the swamp” (that is, reducing the influence of three-letter agencies and other entrenched interests). I would call that not “modest reform,” but rather upsetting the applecart in a profound way.
He didn’t deliver on either of those promises. Who knows whether he intended to. He wasn’t the “outsider” he portrayed himself as and might have been consciously playing his role in that charade called American politics.

Posted by: David Levin | Feb 3 2023 15:05 utc | 131

Tom_Q_Collins @90 wrote:” I’m not quite clear on what role you think Trump played in the ongoing, yearslong plans to weaken Russia by using Ukraine as a proxy.”
That is a two-part question. What exactly are you referring to when you say “yearslong plans to weaken Russia by using Ukraine as a proxy”. Do you believe the plan was to plunge the US and Europe into recession with stagflation with massive energy insecurity and disruption of supply chains? Do you think the plan was to let Russia roll across Ukraine capturing the western part of that country and turning the remainder of Ukraine into rubble?
Explain exactly How this “plan” that Hillary was going to lead was to be implemented? Did you think Russia was going to just twiddle their thumbs and watch Wonder Woman do her thing?
As for Trump’s role in implementing an effort to weaken and isolate Russia I suggest you read the article from Caitlin Johnstone that you posted.
How many of those 25 things Caitlin lists would Hillary been able to pull off without a huge backlash from both the 80 million voters that voted against her but also 10’s of millions that voted for her? Just exactly how was Hillary going to sell fueling another war that destroys the lives of millions in some far off land?
Trump’s role was to sell the war to the American public and there is absolutely no doubt he succeeded as today the overwhelming majority of Americans support the current US role in this war. In fact selling the war was easy for Trump because he could do all those things on Caitlin’s list and nobody even noticed because “everybody knows” that Trump is soft on Russia and his foreign policy consists of stuffing money into his own pocket.
Russiagate and Ukrainegate were the perfect smokescreen to permit Trump to ramp up the war without the public’s knowledge.
But Russia was well aware of the continuous military build up against them and when they reacted to that build up that Trump started, it was easy to convince the American public that Russia was not acting rationally.

Posted by: jinn | Feb 3 2023 15:12 utc | 132

Gerth ends his review with a personal afterword:
“Because I am worried about journalism’s declining credibility and society’s increasing polarization. ”
He doesn’t need to worry.
MSM Journalism in the West is now DEAD for anyone that has at least two working brain cells.

Posted by: Tom_12 | Feb 3 2023 16:16 utc | 133

@Colin | Feb 3 2023 13:05 utc | 120
Only the US oligarchs have a controlling influence over US elections. That’s what an oligarchy means.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 3 2023 16:17 utc | 134

@Colin | Feb 3 2023 13:45 utc | 123
One needs to discriminate. Not all papers have equal weight, and in an age of open access and for-profit journals run by rapacious companies of dubious integrity it is doubly needed. If you are not in-field you should be very sceptical of your own ability to assess the merit of a paper especially when it’s positions appear to reinforce your own, or even to choose appropriate terms for a valid search.
Unless there is compelling proximal evidence (and this is very rare) the ceiling of the authors’ h-indices (Hirsch-Index) is usually* the key to the weight a paper should receive.
*But not always, particularly when the research intersects with religious beliefs, national fervor or commercial interests, not always identified.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 3 2023 16:47 utc | 135

“What scared the Establishment about Trump so much that they’d went full scale color revolution against Trump?”
It was not simply that Trump was a populist. He sought normal relations with Russia. He also wanted to limit immigration. Jewish neo-conservatives were already planning for war against Russia. (The Maidan Revolution in Ukraine was in 2014 and Russia then annexed Crimea.) Jews have long fomented mass immigration in the US (but not Israel) on the view that Jews are safer in a multiracial society than in a biracial society where they are the minority. In a multiracial society, they are less likely to be singled out for persecution. Even now, there is a fanatical effort to quash any comeback by Trump.

Posted by: greg | Feb 3 2023 17:09 utc | 136

@Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 3 2023 6:54 utc | 108
NSO Group since 2021
Ability since 1993
Comverse since 1982
Verint (now owned by Comverse) since the early 1990s
Narus (now owned by Boeing) since the 1980a
Technology Development Corporation since the late 1980s.
Gilat Telecom and AVAYA since the early 80s
All of these companies have Israeli involvement, and Verint, Converse and Narus in particular, have extensive ties to Israel.
See Bamford, James (2009-07). The Shadow Factory: The NSA from 9/11 to the Eavesdropping on America. Anchor.
Refer also Bamford, James (2012-04-03). Shady Companies With Ties to Israel Wiretap the U.S. for the NSA. Wired Magazine,

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 3 2023 17:21 utc | 137

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 3 2023 6:54 utc | 110
“Teledocs” was close but the company you are thinking of is “Amdocs” IIRC. I believe Whitney Webb mentions it in one or more of her Mint Press articles.

Posted by: The Osprey | Feb 3 2023 17:48 utc | 138

Did a search for “Amdocs” on Mint Press, they are mentioned in a while slew of articles on Israeli involvement with US tech companies, surveillance and blackmail.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/?s=Amdocs

Posted by: The Osprey | Feb 3 2023 17:51 utc | 139

Only the US oligarchs have a controlling influence over US elections. That’s what an oligarchy means.
Posted by: Hermit | Feb 3 2023 16:17 utc | 134
This also includes a lot of Zionist oligarchs, which is why the US is pro-Israel.

Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 18:53 utc | 140

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 3 2023 16:47 utc | 135
I was shocked that such a large percentage of papers said that 5G is harmful when I tried to search for real papers from scientists rather than from “pro-science” MSM claiming that pro-5G is part of the science and consensus.
In addition, the study design and level of evidence are more important than the h-index.
For example, many pro-5G papers did not even conduct any experiments or meta-analyses, and the pro-5G papers that did conduct analyses were narrowly defined to exclude the vast majority of relevant research.
And, some of the major pro-5G papers are published in engineering journals rather than medical journals.
Of course, even from an authoritative point of view, the H-indexes of the authors of these anti-5G papers are quite high.
I don’t think the existing studies adequately prove the significantly harmful effects of 5G for most people, but the same criteria would mean that even whether heavy drinking is harmful or beneficial to health is completely unproven.

Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 19:06 utc | 141

He didn’t deliver on either of those promises. Who knows whether he intended to. He wasn’t the “outsider” he portrayed himself as and might have been consciously playing his role in that charade called American politics.
Posted by: David Levin | Feb 3 2023 15:05 utc | 131
He is at least more of an outsider than AOC

Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 19:11 utc | 142

But please continue in your fantasies about how “digital technology allows us to scale democracy to large numbers.” Yes, that sure doesn’t have 100% of the evidence against it.
Humanity will not be voting its way out of this.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Feb 2 2023 20:43 utc | 46

We certainly have the technology to create a working democracy. I think it would be an understatement to say that true democracy is a bit problematic in its own way. I’ll let wise her minds speak to that.
On the technological side there are three issues that immediately have to be addressed.
1. Gaming the system and security.
2. Adoption of it.
3. The response of existing powers.
I don’t see designing and creating such a system to be all that difficult or expensive. And there are a few ways you might get widespread adoption of it.
however I think the resistance to it would be proportional to its success and quite likely violent.
Generally I think it would just become illegal in most countries to use the app. We are already seeing many examples of that and a fracturing of the internet.
I’ve never seen building a democracy application or system as being a technological problem, it’s a geopolitical and social problem instead.
And so I would ask where is the path to where such a system replaces the existing world order? Assuming there’s strong resistance to this solution what is the next step beyond that?
We really are playing multi-dimensional chess here. So far I don’t really feel like the good people are winning.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 3 2023 20:40 utc | 143

. When it comes to media in France, I better don’t even start. Yes, the free world and its enemies is really a nice trick to fool it’s people.
Posted by: Alfapanda | Feb 2 2023 19:01 utc | 26
Please do talk about the media in France. I’ve been there 30 years and don’t feel I begin to understand how the US permanent state exercises so much power.

Posted by: Gene Poole | Feb 3 2023 20:52 utc | 144

He is at least more of an outsider than AOC
Posted by: Colin | Feb 3 2023 19:11 utc | 142

Did you set the bar this high so as to induce vertigo? 8^)

Posted by: David Levin | Feb 3 2023 20:56 utc | 145

can spare me what was already old hat to me decades ago. But please continue in your fantasies about how “digital technology allows us to scale democracy to large numbers.” Yes, that sure doesn’t have 100% of the evidence against it.
Humanity will not be voting its way out of this.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Feb 2 2023 20:43 utc | 47
I’m learning a lot from you people arguing, ugly as it is. My own liberal fantasy is that you could both teach me so much more if you’d stop.

Posted by: Gene Poole | Feb 3 2023 21:07 utc | 146

After reading the Mueller Report back in 2020, I felt especially uneasy about the allegations of Russia’s direct interference in our 2016 elections, but I have to admit I was less concerned about the allegations against Trump, since, as a New Yorker, I was familiar with his background and found it easy to believe that he had at least financial entanglements with the Russians. My doubts, however, that Russia had not only hacked into the DNC server and released emails to Wikileaks but also tried to secure Trump’s election victory and sow discord through social media led me to conduct my own research. Drawing from diverse sources including extremely helpful analysis from Moon of Alabama, I eventually wrote a paper that was posted at the link below (since this is my first post, I hope I followed the correct procedure for the hyperlink).
Part of the reason for the post is that most of what I’ve read about the Twitter revelations and the CJR report doesn’t so much address the equally tenuous accusations of Russia’s unilateral cyber intrusions.
Link to Wikileaks

Posted by: Aguilar | Feb 3 2023 23:29 utc | 147

OK, I obviously messed up the link. It says, “Link to Wikileaks,” but if you click on it, you’ll get to the right web page. Live and learn.

Posted by: Aguilar | Feb 3 2023 23:31 utc | 148

Posted by: The Osprey | Feb 3 2023 17:51 utc | 139
Awesome, thanks. That’s the name…I wonder if that company is still around.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 0:32 utc | 149

Jinn:
That is a two-part question. What exactly are you referring to when you say “yearslong plans to weaken Russia by using Ukraine as a proxy”.
Uh, well what I am referring to is what is happening every day in that country. It’s the culmination of a years long campaign by the USG w/ help from the UK and others to advance close enough to Russia’s periphery such that it triggers what they wanted to be a regime-changing event.
Do you believe the plan was to plunge the US and Europe into recession with stagflation with massive energy insecurity and disruption of supply chains?
There’s actually a lot to unpack there, some of it valid, some of it completely unrelated. Yes, I do believe that the plan has been to plunge the EU into a recession, make them reliant on US petroleum/LNG at triple the price and to make sure there was no reproachment between Russia and Germany or the rest of the EU for that matter. If anything, the current economic situation in the US is actually better than it was before Russia invaded Ukraine. It’s the EU with massive energy insecurity and the effect of causing EU based mfg. companies to leave and relocate to the US among other things.
Which supply chains are you referring to otherwise? You do remember something called “the pandemic” I assume?
Do you think the plan was to let Russia roll across Ukraine capturing the western part of that country and turning the remainder of Ukraine into rubble?
No, I know the plan was to arm and train up the Ukro-nazis to the point that when Russia was provoked to invade, Putin would lose handily and quickly and be forced from power. Seriously do you not already understand this being a MoA reader for as long as you have?
Explain exactly How this “plan” that Hillary was going to lead was to be implemented? Did you think Russia was going to just twiddle their thumbs and watch Wonder Woman do her thing?
This has no relevance to anything I’ve said. But in fact, yes, a Killary administration would have engaged in continuing to arm Ukraine and upping the ante until Russia took what they thought would be massive losses either by invading Ukraine or by having to deal with sabotage and civil war on its border. This has always been about “bleeding” Russia with the intent of toppling Putin, hopefully having a more pliant, Western-friendly leader take his place and/or the balkanization of that country to exploit its resources and geo-strategic location, to include a western land bridge with which to harass China. This is exactly what has played out.
Here are a few other people saying the same in slight different ways:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukraine-us-war-russia-john-pilger
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2023/02/03/how-a-network-of-nazi-propagandists-helped-lay-the-groundwork-for-the-war-in-ukraine/
Trump’s role was to sell the war to the American public and there is absolutely no doubt he succeeded as today the overwhelming majority of Americans support the current US role in this war.
This is absolutely ridiculous unless by “Trump’s role” you mean a role not chosen by him, but rather for him by the same parties alluded to above and in the links. Trump’s hand was forced into the 25 things he did; he may have genuinely been convinced of the alleged merits of a few of them in the same way he was about Julian Assange’s prosecution, but Trump’s intent (or self-chosen role) was never to sell any war with Russia….China? Maybe, but a trade war primarily.
But Russia was well aware of the continuous military build up against them and when they reacted to that build up that Trump started, it was easy to convince the American public that Russia was not acting rationally.
You start off on the right foot but then devolve into the same misguided notion that Trump is who began the military buildup in Ukraine. It had been going on for a dozen years, including prior to the Maidan coup. Read the Covert Action Magazine article and John Pilger’s piece in the Guardian for some background. All of that shit preceded Trump.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 0:49 utc | 150

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 3 2023 17:21 utc | 137
Thanks, Hermit.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 0:51 utc | 151

“…It was not simply that Trump was a populist…” greg@136
Trump was not a populist, he favoured the wealthy and their interests not those of “the people.”
There is a tendency to call anyone loud and vulgar, ill-disciplined and stupid a ‘populist.’
Sanders was a populist (at least for a time), Kucinich was a populist, Huey Long was a populist. And there is now a new Peoples Party which seems populist- Trump will be among its worst enemies.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 4 2023 2:27 utc | 152

I disagree that the assassination of Soleimani was meant to provoke a war between Iran and Israel.
Remember that the reason Soleimani came to Iraq was to broker peace talks between Iran and Saudi Arabia.
The US could not have that. They rely on Middle East conflict to keep intact the petrodollar which allows the US to live off the resources and labor of the rest of the world, which needs to sell to the US in order to obtain the dollars necessary to buy oil, the blood of the industrial machinery of the world.
If the petrodollar goes, US hegemony goes.
So Soleimani had to go. As Hussein and Ghaddafi before him.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Feb 4 2023 3:12 utc | 153

Tom_Q wrote:”a Killary administration would have engaged in continuing to arm Ukraine”
The US was not arming Ukraine until Trump was elected. How could Hillary continue to do something that had not started? And the question was -> How would Hillary sell the start of arming the nazis. That is something Hillary could not do but Trump showed it was easy. And you are a perfect example of why it so easy. You were so distracted by Ukrainegate you failed to notice what was really happening.
“You start off on the right foot but then devolve into the same misguided notion that Trump is who began the military buildup in Ukraine”
Trump not only started sending arms to Ukraine, he started arming all the eastern European states that were alligned with US.
Allow me to quote from the article you posted from Caitlin Johnstone:

“Lost in the gibberish about Trump temporarily withholding military aide to supposedly pressure a Ukrainian government who was never even aware of being pressured is the fact that arming Ukraine against Russia is an entirely new policy that was introduced by the Trump administration in the first place. Even the Obama administration, which was plenty hawkish toward Russia in its own right, refused to implement this extremely provocative escalation against Moscow. It was not until Obama was replaced with the worst Putin puppet of all time that this policy was put in place.”

Caitlin states it exactly correct. Most Americans are completely unaware that Trump was the one who started sending lethal weapons that were specifically designed to be used for the specific purpose of killing Russians in the Donbass. That is something Hillary could have never pulled off without a huge public backlash.
But all Trump and his buddies at the CIA had to do is create a big distraction with the phony staged Zelinsky phone call and within a couple months all the leftists in America think it was their idea to arm Ukraine and Trump is the only thing standing in their way. To this day the overwhelming majority of Americans support sending as much arms as the US can muster. There is no way in a million years Hillary could have garnered that kind of support for arming nazis in their quest to kill Russians.

Posted by: jinn | Feb 4 2023 3:56 utc | 154

Jinn, you’re sadly mistaken or stuck on semantics.

By March 2015, the US had committed more than $120 million in security assistance for Ukraine and had pledged an additional $75 million worth of equipment including UAVs, counter-mortar radars, night vision devices and medical supplies, according to the Pentagon’s Defense Security Cooperation Agency.
That assistance also included some 230 armored Humvee vehicles.

From a 2017 “fact check” of Trump’s statements about Obama sending arms. Regardless, the US has been pumping money into Ukraine for decades. Are Humvee armored vehicles necessarily without armaments? Do you recall Nuland’s brag about having “invested” $5Bn in Ukraine? Do you think the US is the only country that makes and sells weapons? Do you think that all that money was put to peaceful purposes under Bush and Obama or could the Ukro-nazis been using the money to buy weapons? And what about military training? Did the US suddenly start training Ukrainians (a non-NATO member) under Trump? No, it’d been going on for a long time. You’re either incredibly naive or just a Democrat partisan with TDS.
Nobody is arguing that the US gov’t under the Trump administration didn’t send weapons to Ukraine. Maybe it has escaped you that Congress (including Democrats – duh, that’s who got all pissed off when Trump delayed one of the transfers) requested this aid and that Trump merely “approved” it. Your assertion that Hillary *never could have sent anything without a huge backlash* is ridiculous unless you’re talking about backlash from DEMOCRATS and their compatriots in the 3LAs of the Deep State. It was Obama, as we both know, who said he wouldn’t send “lethal aid” and it was a position widely backed by the Democratic party as a whole.
From a Politico piece:

For the 2019 fiscal year, lawmakers allocated $250 million in security aid to Ukraine, including money for weapons, training, equipment and intelligence support. Specifically, Congress set aside $50 million for weaponry.

Did you catch that? CONGRESS set aside the money for weaponry. The US project in Ukraine – long ago hatched to weaken Russia and get rid of Putin – has been underway since at least the George W. Bush administration and Obama continued it, no matter how much you want to get hung up on the *types* of weapons that were sent by whom.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 4:13 utc | 155

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-donald-trump-ap-fact-check-barack-obama-981ef7feb11053c1340a9d028d6f357b

Ultimately between 2014 and 2016, the Obama administration committed more than $600 million in security aid to Ukraine.

“Security aid”…OK. What has that traditionally meant, both literally and in terms of mid to long term foreign policy strategy? And it’s important to understand WHY the Obama administration didn’t send certain types of arms – it had nothing to do with American (or any) public perception of aiding Nazis.

While the Obama administration refused to provide Ukraine with lethal weapons in 2014 to fight Russian-backed separatists, it offered a range of other military and security aid — not just “blankets.” The administration’s concern was that providing lethal weapons like Javelin anti-tank missiles might provoke Russian President Vladimir Putin to escalate the conflict in the separatist Donbas area of Ukraine near Russia’s border.

So they didn’t send lethal aid yet because they were buying time for Ukraine and knew that if they pushed it too far and Russia invaded then, Ukraine would be crushed. Common theme, isn’t it? Merkel and others have said the same under different pretexts (Minsk).
Almost anything tough on Russia/Putin enacted by Trump was driven by the neocons in his cabinet and under massive public pressure coming from a concerted campaign to paint him as a “Putin puppet.” His actions cannot be analyzed without considering that context.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 4:21 utc | 156

Think about it. Why would Trump and Pence say these things?

Casting himself as tough on Russia, former President Donald Trump lowballed the amount of U.S. military aid provided to Ukraine during the Obama-Biden administration and claimed that only he himself in recent history didn’t face a Russian invasion of another country. Not true.
Trump’s vice president, Mike Pence, meanwhile, made a suspect claim that all of Ukraine’s weapons now in use came from the Trump administration.

He LOWBALLED the amount of aid Obama sent because he was embroiled in a massive smear campaign (related to the very subject of this article) that was trying to tie him to Russia/Putin who the Democrats and media said had stolen the presidency from Killary and handed it to him. Pence bragged that their weapons only came from the Trump administration for the very same reason. But read between the lines there: The AP is “fact checking” Pence by saying he was mistaken or dishonest when he took credit for all of the WEAPONS Ukraine had received. I’ll leave it to you on that for now…
Trump did not enter office with the intent of “selling the war” on Russia – he was put in a position by those already selling (and enabling) said war where he was essentially forced to continue the long-running plans and policies for Russia. So to your original reply, Trump may have been used to sell the war, it wasn’t because he had any real say in the matter except to brag at rallies, paint the previous administration as weak, and attempt to withhold the aid nearly getting himself impeached for the express reason that a Democrat/CIA mole was in the White House to make sure that the Democrat/CIA plans weren’t interrupted.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 4:28 utc | 157

@ Aguilar | Feb 3 2023 23:29 utc | 147
hey aguilar.. welcome to moa… the link with info looks solid… i kind of skimmed over it, but i liked what i read.. you wrote it back in 2020…. cheers..

Posted by: james | Feb 4 2023 4:42 utc | 158

Under Trump, the Democrats demonized his policies which were the exact same as Obama’s for offensive weaponry.
https://theintercept.com/2017/03/06/democrats-now-demonize-the-same-russia-policies-that-obama-long-championed/

ONE OF THE most bizarre aspects of the all-consuming Russia frenzy is the Democrats’ fixation on changes to the RNC platform concerning U.S. arming of Ukraine. The controversy began in July when the Washington Post reported that “the Trump campaign worked behind the scenes last week to make sure the new Republican platform won’t call for giving weapons to Ukraine to fight Russian and rebel forces.”
Ever since then, Democrats have used this language change as evidence that Trump and his key advisers have sinister connections to Russians and corruptly do their bidding at the expense of American interests. Democratic Senator Ben Cardin, the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, spoke for many in his party when he lambasted the RNC change in a July letter to the New York Times, castigating it as “dangerous thinking” that shows Trump is controlled, or at least manipulated, by the Kremlin. Democrats resurrected this line of attack this weekend when Trump advisers acknowledged that campaign officials were behind the platform change.
This attempt to equate Trump’s opposition to arming Ukraine with some sort of treasonous allegiance to Putin masks a rather critical fact: namely, that the refusal to arm Ukraine with lethal weapons was one of Barack Obama’s most steadfastly held policies. The original Post article that reported the RNC platform change noted this explicitly:
Of course, Trump is not the only politician to oppose sending lethal weapons to Ukraine. President Obama decided not to authorize it, despite recommendations to do so from his top Europe officials in the State Department and the military.
Early media reports about this controversy from outlets such as NPR also noted the irony at the heart of this debate: namely, that arming Ukraine was the long-time desire of hawks in the GOP such as John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Marco Rubio, but the Obama White House categorically resisted those pressures:
Republicans in Congress have approved providing arms to the Ukrainian government but the White House has resisted, saying that it would only encourage more bloodshed.
It’s a rare Obama administration policy that the Trump campaign seems to agree with.
Indeed, the GOP ultimately joined with the hawkish wing of the Democratic Party to demand that Obama provide Ukraine with lethal weapons to fight Russia, but Obama steadfastly refused. As the New York Times reported in March, 2015, “President Obama is coming under increasing pressure from both parties and more officials inside his own government to send arms to the country. But he remains unconvinced that they would help.” When Obama kept refusing, leaders of the two parties threatened to enact legislation forcing Obama to arm Ukraine.
The general Russia approach that Democrats now routinely depict as treasonous – avoiding confrontation with and even accommodating Russian interests, not just in Ukraine but also in Syria – was one of the defining traits of Obama’s foreign policy. This fact shouldn’t be overstated: Obama engaged in provocative acts such as moves to further expand NATO, non-lethal aid to Ukraine, and deploying “missile defense” weaponry in Romania. But he rejected most calls to confront Russia. That is one of the primary reasons the “foreign policy elite” – which, recall, Obama came into office denouncing and vowing to repudiate – was so dissatisfied with his presidency.
A new, long article by Politico foreign affairs correspondent Susan Glasser – on the war being waged against Trump by Washington’s “foreign policy elite” – makes this point very potently……

To wit: It was the Democrats and their corporate media allies joining forces with Republican neocons/hawks in forcing Trump’s hand to provide offensive weaponry to Ukraine which merely marked the next step in the, by that point, long continuing escalation of hostile activities in Ukraine aimed at Russia.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 6:32 utc | 159

Posted by: james | Feb 4 2023 4:42
Much appreciated. I’ve benefited tremendously from this website over the years, including the comments, yours certainly among them.

Posted by: Aguilar | Feb 4 2023 14:40 utc | 160

Tom-Q-Collins wrote:

Trump did not enter office with the intent of “selling the war” on Russia – he was put in a position by those already selling (and enabling) said war where he was essentially forced to continue the long-running plans and policies for Russia. So to your original reply, Trump may have been used to sell the war, it wasn’t because he had any real say in the matter except to brag at rallies, paint the previous administration as weak, and attempt to withhold the aid nearly getting himself impeached for the express reason that a Democrat/CIA mole was in the White House to make sure that the Democrat/CIA plans weren’t interrupted.

You don’t need to repeatedly demonstrate that you have been fooled by the events of the Trump era.
Your TDS is bleeding through in almost every word you write (when you are not copy and pasting gibberish from someone else). Let me give you a quick example:
The phone call between Zelensky and Trump was obviously scripted and rehearsed. I know this because I have seen Zelensky attempt an impromptu interview in English. The man can hardly speak a word of English, but he is a trained monkey who can sound like he knows the language exceptionally well when he is performing from a well rehearsed script.
What should be obvious is that both Trump and Zelensky (and the CIA) were well aware that the phone call was going to be made public and words are carefully chosen and rehearsed accordingly. So what would be the purpose of making this little staged performance between the 2 presidents open to the public. Well I have already explained one purpose and that was to convince the public that it was their idea to arm the nazis against the Donbass Russians and that Trump was the one obstacle to making that happen. Simple reverse psychology. Zelensky was more than happy to learn his lines and play his part when the outcome was explained. There is no doubt this ruse worked as you keep demonstrating. When Trump is heard saying he doesn’t want something you can be sure that 10’s of millions of Americans will instantly become convinced that is precisely what they want. I don’t think there has ever been a President with such enormous power over the minds of so many people.
The problem of course is even if Americans were fooled the Russians were not fooled. The Russians understand the difference between sending money and sending arms to Ukraine. In the few years following the Maidan regime-change more than $10 billion in IMF and US/UK aid was sent to Ukraine and then it disappeared. It just vanished and nobody is telling where the money went. The Russians just laughed at US sending monetary aid to Ukraine. They had already been there and done that.
The Russians also have a good grasp of the concepts of democracy. They know that you can’t enter into a conflict like the Ukraine war without the support of the people from whom the soldiers will come. The Russians also know (as do the US powers) that such a war is going to cause economic hardship which is not going to help make the war popular.
So that brings us back to the question that you keep avoiding with all your gibberish (gibberish is what Caitlin succinctly calls it and I 100% agree). How was Hillary going to sell the escalation that will lead to full on war to the American public?
I know you won’t answer that question, so I will. The only way for Hillary to pull it off would be some massive false flag operation that could be blamed on Putin. That is not easy to pull off in a way that Americans would buy it in the age of the internet. It certainly would not be anywhere near as easy as having Trump do it without even breaking a sweat. And its not as if Ukrainegate or Russiagate hurt Trump, those phony displays of nonsense gained Trump millions of new followers.

Posted by: jinn | Feb 4 2023 15:21 utc | 161

Well, the moronic obsession with “spy balloons” continues apace. All of the corporate media are chipping in their contributions. We really are in clown world now. If they want people to be realistic, maybe they should provide a better fake reality.
US spots second Chinese ‘spy balloon’ over Latin America as Blinken scraps Beijing trip The Raw Story07:54
The latest on the suspected Chinese spy balloon over the US CNN00:53
General: balloon “not an inconsequential act,” “should have been shot down” CNN10:33
Will Cain on China’s spy balloon: This was a ‘message’ Fox News – YouTube10:30
In a world of drones and satellites, why use a spy balloon? The Washington Post10:12

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 4 2023 15:58 utc | 162

Tom_Q_Collins wrote: “So they didn’t send lethal aid yet because they were buying time for Ukraine and knew that if they pushed it too far and Russia invaded then, Ukraine would be crushed.”
Finally buried in miles and miles of gibberish you say what’s true. In case you don’t know what “lethal aid” means: It means aid that was sent expressly for the purpose of killing Russians in the Donbass (no other purpose). You are nuts if you believe that Hillary could get the US public backing for another military adventure with no other purpose than killing people in some far off land. But Trump could pull that off and I say that with certainty because that is what Trump undeniably did.
So now we covered one item of Caitlin’s list of belligerent actions against Russia. I suppose your going to say all of that was just because Trump’s arm was being twisted.
But the point remains no matter what gibberish you concoct for why Trump did all 25 things on Caitlin’s list there is no way Hillary as president it could have been done. Sure its possible Hillary could do all those things, but right now the US involvement in responding to Russia’s military action would be extremely unpopular with the US public and that would be a huge problem for TPTB. Even with the tailwind of some false-flag to propel her forward many (maybe even most) Americans would not support another Hillary led war.

Posted by: jinn | Feb 4 2023 16:19 utc | 163

@Colin | Feb 3 2023 19:06 utc | 141
People who are not subject experts or cross-discoolinary experts are generally not competent to assess a study in a field in which they are not expert. Even experts in a field can be confused, fooled or hoaxed (vide the Sokal affair if you doubt this).
Even in the hard sciences embarrassing mistakes can easily be made. Vide John Hagelin (Harvard’s greatest embarrassment) or Cold Fusion (ditto for Southampton. Utah being too tied to Mormonism to be embarrassed by anything less ludicrous). Medicine is becoming harder, but is.still somewhat soft and still somewhat faddish, in part due to a lack of good models for long term impacts and a plethora of confounding covariables making analysis challenging. For example, our discovery that our dietary advice was harmful, and that we should have been chewin fat and eschewing sugar all the time is so new that many in the field have still not accepted it as settled science, despite Robert Listings proof that sugars are poisons.
As far as 5G is concerned, it may, like most other things in life, be harmful in large quantities up close, particularly for the young. However, we grew up on a planet orbiting an unshielded fusion reactor and long-term exposure to that, even if somewhat protected, as we are, by the Earth’s magnetic field and atmosphere, and the long term effects of this dwarfs any normal exposure to 5G signals. That doesn’t mean that sticking an antenna up your butt would be a good idea (and I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t generally be considered normal), but our tegument is used to being beaten on by worse and aside from SPF 50 sunblock, the inverse square law, which means that a doubling of distance from an emitter results in a quarter-the power being received, remains our best friend for all non-ionising radiation exposure.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 4 2023 17:39 utc | 164

@GT Stroller | Feb 2 2023 20:47 utc | 49
Trump is not an oligarchy but a wannabe oligarch. Trump did not represent the oligarchs who think he is to gauche, too stupid, and far too nouveau riche to represent anything but naked greed and the power of stupid, but his experience in television taught him how to fake sincerity in a rude fashion, allowing him to fool the people who couldn’t see through his terrible acting. Even in the USA, that is not most. Most Americans (62%) want “a third party” (see Jones Jeffrey M (2021-02-15). Support for Third U.S. Political Party at High Point. Gallup.) and the remaining 38% are almost evenly split between repressive Republicans and dismal Democrats. In the 2016 elections, Trump became president because he was slightly less disliked than Clinton, the oligarchs’ choice and the most intensely disliked presidential candidate in US history. Because he was not the oligarchs’ choice, and in order to protect the fiefdoms of the dark state, Trump spent his entire presidency fighting for survival and accomplished nothing (although the Zionists (2.2%), American religiots (63%), particularly fundamentalist christets (14%) and oligarchs (0.01%) advanced their agendas as nobody was fighting for the majority interest).

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 4 2023 18:18 utc | 165

Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 4 2023 0:51 utc | 151
My pleasure.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 4 2023 18:20 utc | 166

strange how Israeli influence features prominently in many perspectives, yet their compatriots in Saudi Arabia appear unmentionable, despite a significant change in management when the Bush familia ebbed for a moment in Trump’s wake. almost willful, this vacuum.

Posted by: NotEwe | Feb 5 2023 16:38 utc | 167

“compadres” rather.

Posted by: NotEwe | Feb 5 2023 16:50 utc | 168

RE: Comment 5, ‘why did they go all colour revolution on Trump?’
The Hillary camp had a war with Russia agenda for 2016-2020 – but got delayed 6 years by Trump +?

Posted by: Michael Holloway | Feb 5 2023 21:24 utc | 169

The Hillary camp had a war with Russia agenda for 2016-2020 – but got delayed 6 years by Trump +?
Posted by: Michael Holloway | Feb 5 2023 21:24 utc | 169
That’s always been my interpretation. The original sin was not losing to Hillary, as intended. And the problem beyond that was the delay in getting the war with Russia started, which Hillary most certainly was al in on. That got the whole NatSec mafia involved.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 5 2023 21:50 utc | 170