Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 06, 2023

NYT Plants False Claims Over China's Balloon Communication

The New York Times carries a weird 'news analysis' by its somewhat neoconned White House and national security correspondent David Sanger about the recent Chinese weather ballon incident. Sanger asserts that China has failed to communicate on the issue:

[B]eyond the made-for-cable-news spectacle, the entire incident also speaks volumes about how little Washington and Beijing communicate, almost 22 years after the collision of an American spy plane and a Chinese fighter about 70 miles off the coast of Hainan Island led both sides to vow that they would improve their crisis management.
...
This was hardly a life-threatening crisis. But the fact that Chinese officials, realizing that the balloon had been spotted, did not call to work out a way to deal with it was revealing.

That kind of problem was supposed to be resolved after the 2001 collision of an EP-3 spy plane and a Chinese fighter that brought down both planes. For days after that incident, President George W. Bush could not get Chinese leaders on the phone. Efforts by the secretary of state at the time, Gen. Colin Powell, also failed. “It made you wonder what might happen in a deeper crisis,” General Powell said later.

Afterward, hotlines were set up, and promises made about better communications. Clearly, those failed. When the balloon was shot down, China issued a statement saying “for the United States to insist on using armed forces is clearly an excessive reaction.”

One wonders how Sanger can assert a lack of communication when the Chinese side insists with evidence that it in fact communicated a lot . As the Global Times writes:

The Chinese Foreign Ministry expressed strong dissatisfaction and protested against the US' use of force to shoot down a Chinese civilian unmanned airship, urging the US to properly handle the incident.

The Chinese side has verified the situation and communicated with the US side multiple times, saying the unintended entry of the airship into US airspace was due to force majeure and the incident was totally an accident, the ministry said.

The Chinese foreign ministry asserts similar:

China strongly disapproves of and protests against the US attack on a civilian unmanned airship by force. The Chinese side has, after verification, repeatedly informed the US side of the civilian nature of the airship and conveyed that its entry into the US due to force majeure was totally unexpected. The Chinese side has clearly asked the US side to properly handle the matter in a calm, professional and restrained manner.

So China in fact had communicated with the U.S. and discussed the issue.

Its claim that the ballon went unexpectedly off course is by the way completely correct. The U.S. had long tracked the ballon over Alaska and Canada and was equally surprised when it suddenly turned south:

Another U.S. official said intelligence agencies began tracking the balloon several days ago, not long after it had left China and began its controlled drift toward the Aleutian Islands of Alaska. The official said American trackers continued to monitor the balloon as it progressed through Canada toward the continental United States, and were surprised when it crossed over into American airspace.

The cause of the surprising turn last week was a polar vortex over Canada that also brought a cold snap to the north-east:

We know the feeling when winter digs its heels in, and we get endless days below seasonal. When this happens, the jet stream becomes highly amplified with blocking mechanisms to trap the cold.

We often look to Greenland for strong blocking, but that wasn’t the case. The lobe of the stratospheric polar vortex was free to swing readily across Eastern Canada but then made a swift exit. A ridge of high pressure filled in behind, causing temperatures to rise as fast as they fell.


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Such unusual weather patterns happen every once a while but are difficult to predict:

The one certainty this winter is a stretched polar vortex (PV) that favors a cold pattern east of the Rockies in North America. Another stretched PV is happening this week, with the cold arriving this weekend in the Northeastern US. But otherwise, the more lasting impact will be widespread cold to Canada and the Central and Western US. But much uncertainty surrounds this event and subsequent events so my best advice continues to be “the trend is your friend”.

The balloon was on an easterly course over northwest Canada when it was hit by exceptional winds blowing south.


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That it was only last week's freak weather event that pushed the balloon across the U.S. makes it unlikely that it was intended to spy on U.S. proper.

China also said that it fired the man responsible for the incident though that claim is probably not fully believable:

Chinese state media on Saturday announced that the head of the country’s weather service was relieved of his duty, in a move seen by some analysts as an attempt to shore up Beijing’s position that the high-altitude balloon was of civilian nature mainly for meteorological purposes.

Zhuang Guotai was the head of China Meteorological Administration until Friday, but his departure from that post was not unexpected. In late January, Zhuang was elected the head of the western Gansu province’s People’s Political Consultative Committee, the provincial political advisory body.

The whole incident clearly happened by accident and was blown up by the Biden administration for political purposes:

However, a day earlier, on Friday, the White House abruptly announced the postponement of a major two-day visit to Beijing by Secretary of State Antony Blinken (during which he was expected to meet President Xi Jinping.)

Biden took these extreme steps despite China’s plea that this was “entirely an unexpected situation caused by force majeure and the facts are very clear” and Beijing, in fact, even expressed “regret” (which is tantamount to an amende honorable, as the French would say.)

Furthermore, there was even a conversation on Friday between Blinken and Wang Yi, director of the Office of the Foreign Affairs Commission of the Communist Party of China Central Committee. Beijing’s readout noted that the two top officials “communicated with each other on how to deal with a chance occurrence in a calm and professional manner.”

The initial Chinese Foreign Ministry press releases (here and here) were in a manifestly  conciliatory spirit. But Blinken chose to do some grandstanding and took a tough posturing calling it “an irresponsible act and a clear violation of US sovereignty and international law that undermined the purpose” of his forthcoming trip to Beijing.

The purpose of Blinken's planned China trip was to look for some way to split the China-Russia axis. But a recent visit by the deputy of the Chinese foreign minister to Russia had already shown that any such attempts would fail:

Evidently, the Biden Administration realised that one main objective of Blinken’s trip to Beijing — ie., to weaken the Sino-Russian axis — was going to be a non-starter. The US’ sustained efforts to turn the Ukraine conflict as a tool to sabotage China-Russia relations have failed spectacularly. The economic and military ties between Beijing and Moscow are only  growing stronger. President Xi Jinping’s expected visit to Russia in spring heralds the steady upward trajectory of in the “no limits” partnership.

The planned bullying of China by a visiting Blinken was shown to be useless and that was the real reason for announcing that no such trip would take place and for blowing up the balloon:

The balloon affair can be regarded as a defining moment. It exposes that while China was approaching Blinken’s visit in good faith with the purpose of finding constructive ways forward, Washington didn’t view things the same way. That said, Beijing was under no illusions, either.

The NYT's false assertion that China failed to communicate during the balloon affair must be seen as part of Blinken's maneuver to push for more hostility towards China. "If they failed to talk they must be guilty of something." But China did in fact talk and it is the U.S. that is sabotaging the relations between the two countries.

Posted by b on February 6, 2023 at 12:26 UTC | Permalink

Comments

The purpose of Blinken's planned China trip was to look for some way to split the China-Russia axis. But a recent visit by the deputy of the Chinese foreign minister to Russia had already shown that any such attempts would fail

One has to wonder how genuine this Moscow-Peking axis really is, as a notable retired sociology professor from the elite Chinese Tsinghua University
noted back in February of last year

Some say that this war in Ukraine will allow Russia to regain its position as the number one rival of the United States. This claim has no basis. As I have said all along, the United States will not take as its number one adversary a country whose economic power is merely equal to that of the province of Guangdong. This might also explain why the U.S. and the West are not engaging in direct military intervention at this time. Suffice it to say that if the world ever finds a way to deal with nuclear weapons, or to ground them completely, Russia will become completely irrelevant to the world.

Posted by: Idanthyrsus | Feb 6 2023 12:38 utc | 1

Will fake dossier sudden appear about Biden supplying a bunch of hot air to China, with the insinuation it is for 99 red balloons? Will leaks from the administration appear that Biden plays with ballon’s during cabinet meetings? Will a book be release by Wapo or NYT writers from disgruntled staffers about Biden’s infatuation with ballon’s? Inquiring minds want to know!

Posted by: drsmith | Feb 6 2023 13:00 utc | 2

If it hasn’t been done already, I hereby coin the term “balloonacy” to sum up this whole affair.

And if it wasn’t for the US sabre-rattling the whole thing would read like a Tom Sharpe farce rather than a Tom Clancy potboiler.

Posted by: West of England Andy | Feb 6 2023 13:03 utc | 3

Just create a buzz that makes Naftali Bennett's revelations less audible.
Other example hunter laptop-classified documents. The more noise you make the less audible others are.
Show must go on!

Posted by: andy | Feb 6 2023 13:05 utc | 4

Meanwhile a major derailment, resulting in a fire and toxic gas release in Ohio, raising concerns about the Biden administration's policy of restricting rail workers to one sick day a year and. . .HEY LOOK AT THAT BALLOON!!

Posted by: Bob Gardner | Feb 6 2023 13:11 utc | 5

I quit following the NYTs but isn't Sanger the longtime Iran hawk with strong ties to the AIPAC?

Posted by: Goldhoarder | Feb 6 2023 13:19 utc | 6

The US is just trying to project what it is doing on others, like aways. They have announced a program to use balloons to spy on China and Russia. This was supposed to detect hypersonic weapons (a stupid idea to begin with).

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/05/u-s-militarys-newest-weapon-against-china-and-russia-hot-air-00043860

Posted by: James Alen | Feb 6 2023 13:39 utc | 7

We can blame global warming and be done with it. Does a low tech approach to weapons delivery have some merit? Kamikaze balloon pilots anyone?
Dry run: Balloons called top ‘delivery platform’ for nuclear EMP attack

Posted by: circumspect | Feb 6 2023 13:47 utc | 8

"Sometimes a cigar...is just a cigar"

Posted by: BroncoBilly | Feb 6 2023 13:56 utc | 9

The U.S. has an ulterior motive for hyping this little thing so much. The United States is already a long way behind China and Russia in hypersonic weapons programs, and the U.S. military does not have the power to intervene in Eurasia through military means. This balloon project seems to be so unreliable.
Does anyone really have the confidence to challenge both China and Russia at the same time? Or is there really no lower limit to stupidity?

Posted by: JAYWANG | Feb 6 2023 13:59 utc | 10

The Yellowstone Caldera is the US/Canada's Achilles heel. China and Russia must know that and have calculated what size detonation it would take to set it off.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 6 2023 14:08 utc | 11

Sorry, missed the Yellowstone link, just one of many...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/yellowstone-national-park-supervolcano-caldera/

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 6 2023 14:11 utc | 12

Montana's Yellowstone volcano does indeed harbor terrifying dangers. But what country would use a balloon to get intelligence these days?Spy satellites in space are sufficient for such missions. The U.S., Russia and China have always tolerated this kind of behavior.

Posted by: JAYWANG | Feb 6 2023 14:27 utc | 13

First Lady Jill Biden told an Oceanside audience Saturday that she was proud of the U.S. military after U.S. jets shot down a suspected Chinese spy balloon off the Carolina coast.
"We're more aware of the military when we're in times of war, but now we're in times of peace," Biden said. "I mean, I felt such a sense of pride about the effort and that our military shot down the balloon, how coordinated it was, how thoughtful it was, that it was decided to wait until it was over water so that civilians weren't affected," Biden continued. "I hope that most Americans -- I hope when they watch that they really think about our military ... Joe and I think about them every day, we pray for them in our prayers at dinner."

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 6 2023 14:42 utc | 14

What is frankly most surprising about this story is that the balloon appears to actually be Chinese and not another stunt where the American government dupes Americans. Apparently this is not at all the first time a Chinese weather balloon has overflown U.S. territory in the recent years. One wonders if this was on an "easy incidents to gin up" list, being that overflights by weather balloons were tolerated in the past.

Posted by: Nemo | Feb 6 2023 14:48 utc | 15

It gets sillier. CNN up with some DOD stenography which says that while there were overflights in the Trump administration, they were not "discovered" until recently.
Not discovered as in not noticed?
As in not passed up the chain of command?
As in withheld from the civilian authorities?
Raises more questions than it answers.

Posted by: Darthbobber | Feb 6 2023 14:54 utc | 16

Reminds me of Chaplin's dictator scene, playing with balloon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTTDe4jh-og

Posted by: bbs139 | Feb 6 2023 14:56 utc | 17

The imperial cabal is so out of touch they really thought they'd look tough by:

1. Throwing a hysterical toddler-fit over a balloon.

2. Openly saying they were scared to shoot it down until it had completed its mission, which they claim to know was a spy mission.

3. Using their most expensive, worthless and derided piece of military hardware for this farcical purpose, as if they were deliberately satirizing themselves.

Of course the whole world is laughing at them, yet they still think this increases fear and respect.

Idiotic media lies (which also come off as childish whining) like this one only deepen the contempt for them.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Feb 6 2023 15:04 utc | 18

Every clown show has balloons.

Don Bacon @ 13

"We're more aware of the military when we're in times of war, but now we're in times of peace," Biden said. "I mean, I felt such a sense of pride about the effort and that our military shot down the balloon, how coordinated it was, how thoughtful it was, that it was decided to wait until it was over water so that civilians weren't affected,"

"....Joe and I think about them every day, we pray for them in our prayers at dinner."

A coordinated thoughtful clown show. Off the the bathroom to vomit.

Posted by: circumspect | Feb 6 2023 15:16 utc | 19

Weird comment...

Posted by: mark golding | Feb 6 2023 15:24 utc | 20

circumspect | Feb 6 2023 13:47 utc | 7 ...EMP attack dry run...

I read the BLUE PAPER 1-1 on the linked web site. The following passage struck me:

It must be understood, terrorists will, at some point, access a WMD/WME by whatever means whether by theft, sale, trade or alliance. This view is in keeping with the U.S. National Security Strategy which states: “The American people face no greater or more urgent danger than a terrorist attack with a nuclear weapon.”

My take: Nuclear terrorism is unavoidable; just a matter of time. Why the hell do these strategists not put forward policies to eliminate this "no greater or more urgent" danger?
How? Worldwide nuclear arms ban, disarmament, destruction, deposition that technically makes recovery impossible. Start the initiative. Now!

But…no. To conclude in similar style as the Blue Paper does with the closing paragraph’s headline:
MAINTAINING FOREVER EVIL
Disarmament is out of question. The crocodile tears shedding overpaid strategy parasites (authors) WANT the threat to persist for the benefit of their financiers and the trickle-down Judas money they receive.

Posted by: OttoE | Feb 6 2023 15:33 utc | 21

Perhaps Russia will be able to use this as a legal precedent for shooting down NATO satellites over Ukraine and Russia that - unlike harmless weather balloons - are resulting in the deaths of Russian soldiers and even Russian civilians.

Posted by: BM | Feb 6 2023 15:41 utc | 22

Posted by: Nemo | Feb 6 2023 14:48 utc | 14
"One wonders if this was on an "easy incidents to gin up" list, being that overflights by weather balloons were tolerated in the past."

I heard there were numerous sightings reported on social media. Maybe this balloon was larger and more visible than most. Apparently the other balloons from China went unnoticed by the public and were not shot down.

From a DOD statement:
https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/3288618/senior-defense-official-and-senior-military-official-hold-an-off-camera-on-back/

"PRC government surveillance balloons transited the continental United States briefly at least three times during the prior administration and once that we know of at the beginning of this administration, but never for this duration of time. "

Posted by: jinn | Feb 6 2023 15:47 utc | 23

OttoE; nuclear terrorism from unaligned terrorists is no threat at all. Only militaries have access to those weapons. A dirty bomb is a pollution issue, not nuclear.

Posted by: scottindallas | Feb 6 2023 15:49 utc | 24

Yada blah, blah. Blah.

Quoting Ms. Jacinda Ardern, former NZ Prime minister, on what she termed "COVID" dis-information:

“You should only get your information from a credible source. Ours is the only truth”

We know not to believe the utterings from a politician or any representative of the permanent government.

Read 'Defining earth’s atmosphere':-
https://sonar21.com/sturm-und-drang-and-chinese-balloons/


[.]This is madness. The countries with military satellites circling the globe do not have a formal agreement under international law defining where earth’s atmosphere ends and space begins. (More about that in a bit.) 

Let me start with this question — what is the difference between a Chinese spy balloon flying at 55 miles above the earth collecting intelligence via sensors and cameras and Chinese spy satellite flying at 70 miles above the earth collecting intelligence with sensors and cameras? Simply a matter of altitude.

Currently there is a de facto assumption by most nations that the line dividing earth atmosphere from space is 60 miles above the earth:[.]

At present, the United States, Russia and China tolerate their adversaries satellites flying over their territory scooping up intel. As long as it is in space, satellites freely collect and no nation pitches a fit (yet) or threatens to shoot down the satellites (yet).[.]

Isn’t there a war in UKR where the prime instigator is Uncle Scam, and going badly for him; lives are being lost so we do need to be distracted?

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 6 2023 16:14 utc | 25

I have it on very good authority, very very good, the best authority that the Killer Balloon was in fact delivering an antidote to the tons and tons of WEF chemtrails Americans have been sucking in so long that has brainwashed most into believing everything they're told including "You will be a slave and you will be happy."

The mission was aborted before the antidote could be delivered thereby assuring the Atlantis 2.0 scenario.

You're welcome.

Posted by: gottlieb | Feb 6 2023 16:31 utc | 26

The whole discussion includes a premise that, after his hissy fit, US Sec of State "cancelled" his "planned" visit to China.

However, according to RT, Chinese authorities noted that no such visit was planned.

RT: “In fact, neither side has ever announced that there would be a visit,” the ministry pointed out....

Blinken’s visit to China was allegedly arranged by US leader Joe Biden and Chinese President Xi Jinping at the G20 summit in Indonesia last November, and was due to become the first trip to Beijing by a US secretary of state since 2020.

see https://www.rt DOT com/news/570948-china-us-blinken-balloon/

Send in the clowns. There ought to be clowns.

Posted by: N Hanrahan | Feb 6 2023 16:34 utc | 27

A Chinese professor said "Suffice it to say that if the world ever finds a way to deal with nuclear weapons, or to ground them completely, Russia will become completely irrelevant to the world"?

Without Russian energy, China would just be a country with 1.4 billion hungry people to feed.
Those factories don't run on hot air, after all.

Sounds like the USA is not the only country with delusional people.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Feb 6 2023 16:37 utc | 28

Now that they know how distracted we are by balloons, the next balloon will be will a cover for a massive party popper assault.

Posted by: d4l3d | Feb 6 2023 16:39 utc | 29

OttoE @ 21

They are worried about terrorism in a world filled with all types of terrorism. I do not think a terrorist attack with a nuclear weapon is the greatest danger to the US. If it happens, it will be a state not a group of clucks with box cutters and a nuke from wherever.

Of course, notwithstanding, the US can organize and supply their own group of clucks with the materials necessary.

Posted by: circumspect | Feb 6 2023 16:41 utc | 30

"....Joe and I think about them every day, we pray for them in our prayers at dinner."

A coordinated thoughtful clown show. Off the the bathroom to vomit.

Posted by: circumspect | Feb 6 2023 15:16 utc | 19

Beat me to it.

Absolutely revolting.

Posted by: Michigan Dude | Feb 6 2023 16:51 utc | 31

Stop comparing balloons to satellites (it is driving me up the wall).

Balloons don't go even half as high as the record-breaking lowest satellite (was it three days that satellite lasted? See OT comment in a previous thread).

Some very rough comparisons:
· Compared to most very low-flying (and thus short-lived) satellites weather-balloons are at roughly one ninth or tenth of the altitude.
· Compared to more normal low orbit satellites closer to one twentieth.
· Compared to geostationary satellites very roughly one thousandth.
· Spy satellites are sometimes in much higher orbits than geostationary.

Balloon EMPs would need to be of the type and size used for manned flight around the world by Branson some years ago (looks nothing like a weather-balloon and flies much lower) but with added propulsion (impractical, not really anything like it for such balloons at present) unless one really is fine with drifting it somewhat unpredictably on the wind. Much easier to just use a plane or rocket.

I get it; don't trust me, go read up on this yourselves, it really is this silly/braindead.

It's perfectly understandable for ordinary people to not know any of this beforehand or to mess up on details (I do as well). It's not okay for governments, "journalists", and "experts" to do so.

I have no idea why the Chinese scientist/whatever got fired, to me there's absolutely no reason to do so. An attempt at calming rabid US idiots down?

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Feb 6 2023 16:56 utc | 32

those air currents are actually pretty regular for canadia. the "polar vortex" intensifies it, but the pattern is usually a sideways "S" that starts its bottom curve around BC, dips down under alberta and then curves back up around SK. "because rocky mountains" i suppose. it's also giant pain in the ass as it causes "chinooks" which is an ancient first nations word meaning "migraines and nosebleeds because it's 55 f_cking degrees in january".

even the MSM news here quoted the chinese responses which tended to be different versions of "you guys are a bunch of insane retards so settle down".

Posted by: the pair | Feb 6 2023 16:58 utc | 33

I pity the nest navy Captain that Biden orders to do a "freedom of navigation" exercise through the Taiwan straits....

That will be a very tense trip for sure!!

Posted by: Oldcutlas | Feb 6 2023 17:10 utc | 34

b. your "for political purposes:" link is broken. i believe it's supposed to lead to M.K. Bhadrakumar's Biden Bullies China. But it Won’t Work

Posted by: annie | Feb 6 2023 17:11 utc | 35

*next*

Ducking Auto-correct!!

Posted by: Oldcutlas | Feb 6 2023 17:11 utc | 36

I'm suspecting that in the long run the US has just committed an own goal. This was a weather balloon. You can go over to the weather dot gov website of the US national weather service and see what it looked like because the US and a number of other countries (including China) send up these balloons to record highly sensitive data like wind speed and direction, temperature, dew point, etc. /snark. In fact, US weather balloons carry something called a radiosonde that records these data. It even has a phone number/address on it so that if it goes down and you find it, you can call the weather service and they'll come get it. However comma. The US is/has developed real airships that look like Zeppelins (only much much smaller) and are unmanned for the purpose of spying on other countries. Now that the US has shown that we consider it OK to destroy stuff that doesn't belong to us in international airspace, what's to prevent the Chinese from doing the same thing to our actual spy airships?

Posted by: Jeff Harrison | Feb 6 2023 17:30 utc | 37

Given their response to the recent incident, NOT chasing down future balloons would be seen as a sign of weakness: something Biden can't afford. Wouldn't it actually be the correct response for China to keep sending in weather balloons? Weather balloons are cheap and don't have much in the way of self propulsion; missiles are expensive and chasing down balloons requires quite a bit of jet fuel.

Chances are, America would run out of money and/or fuel long before China runs out of balloons.

Posted by: Sid Victor Cattoni | Feb 6 2023 17:56 utc | 38

Say, for the sake of argument, assume China wanted to spy on Amerika. Find out what Roses President Biden grows in the private backyard of the White House.

Would a Balloon, an aircraft that flies whereever it wants, a huge monster that even a blind person without their glasses can spot from a thousand Miles away, really be the tool of choice?
Instead of, say, a cheap drone from the next DIY store? A commercial plane of appropriate size, fitted with small, high-res cameras in sensors? A satellite?

Why would anybody launch a spy balloon in Alaska to spy on America?

For studying weather pattern, where it doesn't matter if the data are collected a few thousand miles more east or west, sure. Where the way the balloon drifts around is valuable data in itself.

But to study specific sites where the cameras and sensors have to get close?

Why a balloon?

Posted by: Marvin | Feb 6 2023 18:14 utc | 39

Since we're trying to complete the picture it would help to know that between "China did not tell the US" and "China told the US" there's "China told the US when?". Jan 28th? Feb 2nd? I can't find it.

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Feb 6 2023 18:16 utc | 40

N Hanrahan @ 27:
"Don't worry... they're already here."

Posted by: Paul Spencer | Feb 6 2023 18:24 utc | 41

«"The Chinese side has clearly asked the US side to properly handle the matter in a calm, professional and restrained manner."»

Such a funny expectation! There are some deluded innocent people at the PRC Foreign Ministry, here is another similar quote from Putin:

https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/full-transcript-vladimir-putin-s-televised-address-to-russia-on-ukraine-feb-24
“Of course, practice, international relations and the rules regulating them had to take into account the changes that took place in the world and in the balance of forces. However, this should have been done professionally, smoothly, patiently, and with due regard and respect for the interests of all states and one’s own responsibility.
Instead, we saw a state of euphoria created by the feeling of absolute superiority, a kind of modern absolutism, coupled with the low cultural standards and arrogance of those who formulated and pushed through decisions that suited only themselves.”

In Real America, "winners do whatever it takes", and the only rule they follow is "can I get away with it?", and since they are nuclear armed, they can.

Posted by: Blissex | Feb 6 2023 18:49 utc | 42

«The whole incident clearly happened by accident and was blown up by the Biden administration for political purposes»

I am shocked, shocked that propaganda is going on in the USA government! :-) Actually the only surprise is that "novichok" was not immediately found on the balloon :-).

Such shrill, Trump/Xi/Putin/NK/Iran/Maduro/Morales/... propaganda attacks are common because they work, especially with older ultra-reactionary voters who are predisposed to be terrified of everything. In UK politics it is called "Project Fear". An earlier example reported by ultra-neolib/neocon "Financial Times" (March 10th 2006) as to the USA itself:

“But is clear leaders of both parties lack the confidence to challenge the mood of xenophobia that exists outside Washington. Instead they are fuelling it. In some respects the Democrats are now as guilty of stoking fears on national security as the Republicans. Their logic is impeccable. A majority of Americans believe there will be another large terrorist attack on American soil.
Such is the depth of anxiety that one-fifth or more of Americans believe they will personally be victims of a future terrorist attack. This number has not budged in the last four and a half years. [...] Mr Bush has consistently received a much higher public trust rating on the war on terror than the Democrats.
Without this -- and without the constant manipulation of yellow and orange terror alert warnings at key moments in the political narrative -- Mr Bush would almost certainly have lost the presidential race to John Kerry in 2004. [...]
In other words, the Democrats have found an effective way of neutralising their most persistent electoral liability: they are out-Bushing Mr Bush. It is easy to see why key Democrats, including Hillary Clinton, have adopted this strategy.
It is easy also to see why their Republican counterparts are following suit. As Peter King, the Republican representative for New York, said last week: "We are not going to allow the Democrats get to the right of us on this issue."
This left Mr Bush holding the candle for the left, as it were.”

Posted by: Blissex | Feb 6 2023 18:59 utc | 43

«The purpose of Blinken's planned China trip was to look for some way to split the China-Russia axis. But a recent visit by the deputy of the Chinese foreign minister to Russia had already shown that any such attempts would fail»

It is hard to believe that anybody in the USA "deep state" imagines that the PRC government will ever split with the RF: the RF (and consequently Kazakhstan) are the biggest buffer states the PRC has, protecting their immense and very vulnerable northern and western borders, just like Finland, Ukraine, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Belarus did that for the RF itself (three gone, one, half-gone, one remains to flip).

It is pretty obvious that just as the USA planted DOD/CIA bases and biowarfare labs first in Poland and Romania when they flipped, and then in Ukraine when it flipped, they can't wait for regime change in Moscow to get President Navalny to gift them a chain of DOD/CIA bases on the chinese borders from which to destabilise the PRC by funding, training and arming many brigades of "freedom fighters" inside the PRC.

The biggest priority of the PRC is not even for China-TW to rejoin China-mainland, but to prevent regime change in the RF (and Kazakhstan, and secondarily Myanmar) to avoid being completely surrounded by the USA.

Posted by: Blissex | Feb 6 2023 19:07 utc | 44

China's great mistake

China's communication has been apologetic, using words like "accident", "force majeure", "regret" and worse yet, firing someone. The message is that China is at fault. This kind of communication is a grave mistake.

China assumes that Americans behave as responsible adults. In reality, the balloon incident is an American provokatsiya, a staged event designed to sow hate — and ultimately — war with China. By acknowledging non-existent wrongdoing, China only feeds the China-haters.

America is aiming for a conflict with China. No amount of "conciliatory spirit" can prevent war.

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Feb 6 2023 19:22 utc | 45

Like so many things the rational world laughs at; the amerikans take it seriously. If I wasn't an Atheist I would pray for Jill Biden as she's either making it up or dementia is a communicable disease. How is it possible for so many to be so DUMB and to remain DUMB with all human knowledge as close as the phone?

Posted by: Bob | Feb 6 2023 19:37 utc | 46

@Bob | Feb 6 2023 19:37 utc | 46

How is it possible for so many to be so DUMB and to remain DUMB with all human knowledge as close as the phone?
The introduction of the internet was said to be a great expansion of democracy. Instead, with the the phones that everyone is staring into, an enormous centralization of power has taken place. That power now has direct access to every individual, and does not have to work via intermediaries.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 6 2023 19:44 utc | 47

The United States is now approaching peak lunacy.

American National Security snowflakes are now parroting the same script as Alex Jones, as they claim the balloon from China was actually a dry run for a Nuclear EMP attack.

Paranoid Politics and Weather Balloons
https://www.globalresearch.ca/paranoid-politics-weather-balloons/5807441?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles

It's only a matter of time before Balloon Attack is blown up (pun intended) as another September 11th--an event that conveniently provided a pretext for the Americans to launch its phony "War on Terrorism."

Hopefully, the USA will recycle those Color-Coded Terror Warnings from the War on Terror era--only adapted to this new Balloon Threat in the New Cold War era that the USA is hyping.

Posted by: ak74 | Feb 6 2023 19:53 utc | 48

Sorry. Not credible.

The Chinese themselves assert that the balloon was in fact manauverable. The course of the balloon was in fact very intentionally directed over various military installations. This was an intentional provocation by China.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Feb 6 2023 20:56 utc | 49

Ah this here suggests China probably did not discuss/was not aware of the balloon before february 2nd : https://www.npr.org/2023/02/02/1153997635/chinese-spy-balloon-montana-pentagon
"China is a responsible country and has always strictly abided by international laws, and China has no intention of violating the territory and airspace of any sovereign country. As for the balloon, as I've mentioned just now, we are looking into and verifying the situation and hope that both sides can handle this together calmly and carefully," Mao said."

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Feb 6 2023 20:58 utc | 50

In a demonstration of resolve and military prowess, the USAF scrambled F22 fighter jets to intercept the spy balloon, and a decision was taken at the highest level of command to shoot it down after it ignored repeated warnings to leave the US airspace and, being an aggressive hot air balloon, farted in the general direction of the nearest F-22 in a threatening manner

Posted by: SlowDL | Feb 6 2023 21:02 utc | 51

Herd behavior of western media.
“Unprovoked invasion” -> “sham referendums” -> "Chinese 'spy' balloon"

It would be funny if China started launching a thousand balloons a day, costing a few hundred dollars a balloon, and the Pentagon would be forced to shoot them down at a cost of half a million dollars a balloon. Pretty soon the Pentagon would unilaterally disarm itself.

Posted by: James McFadden | Feb 6 2023 21:24 utc | 52

The Chinese themselves assert that the balloon was in fact manauverable. The course of the balloon was in fact very intentionally directed over various military installations. This was an intentional provocation by China.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Feb 6 2023 20:56 utc | 49

I suspect that you are wrong about that. It is a balloon, not an airplane or even a powered airship. So, it only goes where there is wind to take it. It may have some limited ability to change elevation to take advantage of variations in wind direction with altitude. Could the Chinese have steered the balloon to Montana if that was indeed their intention, or steered it away if not? This is a technical question, and it can be answered if one knows the extant wind directions and forecasts at the time. Which I don't, sorry, but perhaps someone here could answer these two technical questions:
1) Did the weather forecast when the balloon was launched show a possible or probable path to Montana?
2) Were there ANY wind currents the balloon could have used to stay out of U.S. air space, once it started going that direction? Whether the balloon had the capability to take advantage of such is a different issue, but if there were NO winds going north, the chance that the balloon could stay out of U.S. air space was zero.

I doubt if it really had much capability to change elevation, or even to land, but certainly if all the winds are the wrong way, changing course is impossible.

TM

Posted by: TM | Feb 6 2023 21:54 utc | 53

Now the Pentagon is saying the (weather) balloon “might have been rigged to explode.” Oh yeah? Well I heard that American-made school buses might be rigged to explode, and the Pentagon might be able to detonate them individually or collectively with the press of a button. Given this possibility, why would any other country allow American-made school buses on their roads? They should all scramble their fleet of missile-armed fighter jets and destroy every last American-made school bus immediately.

Posted by: Dalit | Feb 6 2023 22:30 utc | 54

Posted by: gottlieb | Feb 6 2023 16:31 utc

Thank you, once again, gottlieb.

Your posted comments are always great. I read MOA every day, and you are one of the few commenters I always search for. I value most all of the commenters, but I particularly search for you (and those few others).

I comment today because I am a single-issue commenter. That single-issue is chemtrails. Here's something one can see without any special training or education or insight. Clear blue sky turns white after the "contrails" do their thing. "Clouds" with shapes not found in nature.

Posted by: G-Man Joy | Feb 6 2023 23:30 utc | 55

'One wonders how Sanger can assert a lack of communication '

neocons can do and assert what they like

Posted by: brian | Feb 7 2023 0:49 utc | 56

[i]Posted by: James McFadden | Feb 6 2023 21:24 utc | 52[/i]

"Look, we totally owned Chairman Xi by blowing $1 billion on this balloon PR stunt. China and the SeeSeePee will never survive our very rational response!

Posted by: JW | Feb 7 2023 1:42 utc | 57

The US and its media freaks out about a Balloon but does not accept Russian concerns about military built up at their borders.

Posted by: Irish | Feb 7 2023 2:23 utc | 58

The Yellowstone Caldera is the US/Canada's Achilles heel. China and Russia must know that and have calculated what size detonation it would take to set it off.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 6 2023 14:08 utc | 11

But clearly supersonic missiles are the better way to go, rather than balloons that are easy to spot and shoot down.

Posted by: Colin | Feb 7 2023 2:50 utc | 59

Posted by: Idanthyrsus | Feb 6 2023 12:38 utc | 1 -- ".... if the world ever finds a way to deal with nuclear weapons, or to ground them completely...."

That is a big IF...... on the same scale as IF the United Snakes regime ever finds a way to feed their greed without stealing from the Rest Of The World as they have done all 200+ years of their existence.

Posted by: kiwiklown | Feb 7 2023 5:49 utc | 60

Earlier today I saw Chinahand / Peter Lee talking about how the US military actually has several such balloon programs up and running, with one that emphasizes deployment of radar stations.

A couple of days ago I first read about the "Kessler Syndrome," where a physicist named Kessler predicted back in the 70s (?) or so that if a shooting war between top-tier space powers erupted then one of the first things to be attacked would be satellite networks. Kessler believed that the debris that was created by such attacks would spiral out of control until pretty much everything man-made in space was destroyed. The US Military is critically dependent on satellite technology to maintain its combat capabilities, even at their lowest level.

So that got me to thinking: what if this was a pre-emptive strike against "public opinion" to try and future-proof the US against any charges by foreign powers--like China and Russia, or...?--that might claim the large-scale deployment of balloons by the US is indicative of overt military aggression? Or to otherwise protect the secret military programs from criticisms by any other foreign powers?

Posted by: Pacifica_Advocate | Feb 7 2023 6:04 utc | 61

Posted by: circumspect | Feb 6 2023 15:16 utc | 19 -- "A coordinated thoughtful clown show. Off the the bathroom to vomit."

And they helpfully said the clown show was done "safely" too.

Me thinks that Blinkin' Blink'n and allied gangsters thought this one up to smear China yet again.

Firstly, he pretended that he was about to go pow wow with the Chinese ( who promptly revealed that there was no prior agreement for his "visit" ).

Then they blew up (pun intended) this balloon baloney bombast to insinuate "bad faith" on China's part. And to keep his hands clean while giving him a statesman-looking "excuse" to "wisely" not travel to Beijing in these "tense times."

In the coming days, they will "discover" spying equipment in the balloon's debris field, plus, as one wit said in an earlier thread, Xi Jin Ping's intact passport !!!

Posted by: kiwiklown | Feb 7 2023 6:15 utc | 62

@b China also said that it fired the man responsible…
Don’t ever trust the ramblings of Anglo news sites when it comes to the working of the bureaucracy in China – or anything else, really. And especially a junk site as CNN.[*]

That person was not fired, but promoted to a job of party chief in Gansu. His job at meteorology organisation was administrative.
February 3 happened to be his last day on the job (and he was possibly on holiday (new year / spring festival) the last two weeks).
Source: Chucheng Feng
https://twitter.com/fengchucheng/status/1622478123857219584

As a China based person said, 98% wrong and 25 eroneous

China’s ex-meteorology chief was not dismissed because of “balloon-gate”. He’s been promoted on 18 Jan to become Gansu CPPCC chairman. Only resigned from his meteorology administration chief over the weekend because it’s the normal process at the State Council.

Posted by: phiw13 | Feb 7 2023 6:31 utc | 63

Here is an edited compilation of the best and funniest MoA balloon comments transported from the other day in case anyone is interested. Several quite witty, others hilarious.

https://old.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/10vl1cn/balloongate_brought_to_you_courtesy_of_the_bouncy/

Posted by: Merlin2 | Feb 7 2023 7:00 utc | 64

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Feb 6 2023 19:22 utc | 45

We now know that many Chinese balloons have gone over the USA and Canada. Did the Chinese fire anyone then? I doubt it . If not ,why do so now? Like you , I believe it was a mistake for the Chinese to express regret. The Americans have the same and have done worse, so the Americans should just be made to lump it. “It was an off - target weather balloon,just like the ones you all use. No ,we will not be firing anyone as it was within the realm of chance. See ya”

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Feb 6 2023 20:56 utc | 49

News to me ,as I have heard the Chinese say it is a weather balloon with minimal manoeuvrability .

Even if it was a spy-balloon , and I believe it was …who cares? I don’t. What is good for the goose , is good for the gander. The US can learn to live with the RoW.

Posted by: Idanthyrsus | Feb 6 2023 12:38 utc | 1

Russia will still be able to “kill” Europe and the US with other weapons , even if not nuclear. Hypersonic kinetic weapons come to mind ,as do EMP bombs or even powdered graphite to irreparably destroy all electrical networks. Not limited “Ukraine-network “ destruction . Any nuclear attacks on Russia will lead to climate changes for the whole world and Europe especially for decades. Do you really think nations will be satraps to the US once the latter causes nuclear war? Even after their children and we all live in Nuclear Winters?

Chinese ,Iranian and Russian weapons will almost certainly destroy the US navy within minutes . How will the US marines get to any country to punish anyone leaving the Nato alliance? On the wings of angels or via magic carpets?

Pray we never get peer with peer war for a long long time and that it only stays conventional.
Even that will hurt ninety nine percent of us ,even if only via food,medicine and housing/heating shortages if we are lucky to live. Total starvation? Dead within three weeks? Non-potable water , dead in three days. Freezing cold weather ? Dead overnight.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Feb 7 2023 9:04 utc | 65

@West of England Andy | Feb 6 2023 13:03 utc | 3

My partner introduced me to Tom Sharpe some 30 years ago, and I think I have now read all his books. Aside from the South African based books, which I found too immediate and bitter for my taste, I rated his prodigious output both excellent and excruciatingly funny - to the point of damp trousers and aching stomach muscles a week after reading his books. While his biting academic works are better than ordinarily good, his Blott novela and The Throwback are comedic masterpieces thar deserve a place at the high-table with the best of Chaucer, Shakespeare, Wilde, Dickens, Saki, Yates and Wodehouse, but I find that nobody in the US seems to have heard of him. Sad. Perhaps it goes some way towards explaining why so many Americans are dyspeptic.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 7 2023 11:15 utc | 66

@West of England Andy | Feb 6 2023 13:03 utc | 3
@Hermit | Feb 7 2023 11:15 utc | 66

I am currently re-reading Grantchester Grind.

Posted by: Ranelagh | Feb 7 2023 13:21 utc | 67

You've got to give it to the Chinese. They pulled this off admirably. The flight path of their balloon is just beautiful. Going over all of Alaska in its longest dimension, from West to East in a gentle curve. Then crossing into Canada, following the whole length of Canada's Pacific shoreline, but well over the land side of that shoreline. Then slipping into the continental US at one point and moving diagonally across it, only to exit at something like the furthest opposite point.

Really quite a feat I'd say.

They must have excellent weather forecasts for the US over in China.

Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Feb 7 2023 13:29 utc | 68

Hermit no. 66

Tom Sharpe's humour is certainly one of the best. I was so impressed i wrote to him via the publisher and he wrote back. We communicated for many years. I still have all his letters.

Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Feb 7 2023 13:39 utc | 69

The course of the balloon was in fact very intentionally directed over various military installations. This was an intentional provocation by China.

Posted by: Elmer Fudd | Feb 6 2023 20:56 utc | 49

I had to check, so it is may be worthwhile to note that "Elmer Fudd" (check images) is snarky.

Someone posted a link to the trajectory of a weather balloon few years ago. Balloon overflights of all possible countries were happening regularly, and in a sane world, there could be a calming convention on those matters, in line with lamentably abandoned Open Sky treaty: flying apparati with potential of entering other countries should have some documentation of the instruments they possess and obligation to share collected data on demand. Going back to Open Sky, the abandoned treaty was based on sober expert consensus that the value of the data collected in overflights (in this case, by military planes) is not much.

American politics form a resonance chamber amplifying rhetoric in a runaway fashion, in this case, between GOP China hawks and Administration hawks who prevented sober explanation and sober reaction. Actually, between the line, Pentagon explanation was quite sober, but sotto voce, letting media to amplify the situation. At the end of the day, Biden Administration still looks weak, and bi-partisan landscape notches higher on the silliness scale.

BTW, allegedly there were other balloon sightings over Latin America. Should USA generously offer to shoot down those balloons on request? Or it would increase the number of non-USA Americans suffering from uncontrollable laughter.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 7 2023 14:34 utc | 70

WaPo
China claims ownership of 2nd suspected spy balloon above Latin America

Chinese authorities have confirmed that an "unmanned aircraft" flying over Latin America originated in China, even as Beijing stepped up its protests against the U.S. military's decision to shoot down a suspected Chinese spy balloon that traversed the United States last week.
At a regular news briefing on Monday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Mao Ning said that the second balloon came also from China but claimed that it was used for civilian flight tests. "Due to the impact of weather and limited self-steering ability, this aircraft seriously deviated from its scheduled course," Mao said. . . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 7 2023 14:43 utc | 71

I just thought about new angle of possible conclusions. Apparently, THE BALLOON entered lower 48 states from Canada, and Canada did fat nothing to stop it. This exemplifies worthlessness of alliance with Canada, they are happy to free ride on USA protection, and when they have a chance to contribute a bit to the protection of USA, they drop the ball. That deserves some punishment, e.g.

exclude from intelligence sharing for six month

exclude from purchasing USA flying hardware for five years, they do nothing with it anyway.

Or just impose both penalties indefinitely. The first one is apparently quite cruel, so I was thinking about a shorter period, but really, Canada should be punished and suffer until they whail and beg.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 7 2023 14:48 utc | 72

BD
Other Chinese balloons slipped through ‘domain awareness gap’ in US defenses: General
"It's my responsibility to detect threats to North America. I will tell you that we did not detect those [previous] threats,” Gen. Glen VanHerck said.

WASHINGTON — Chinese high-altitude balloons have previously floated near or across parts of the US without being detected because US Northern Command does not have the correct mix of sensor capabilities, according to the commanding general responsible for homeland defense.
“It’s my responsibility to detect threats to North America. I will tell you that we did not detect those [previous] threats, and that’s a domain awareness gap that we have to figure out,” Gen. Glen VanHerck, the commander of USNORTHCOM and the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), told reporters today. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 7 2023 14:51 utc | 73

The little Chinese boy who lost his balloon has been designated an international terrorist by Anthony Blinken.

Posted by: AntiSpin | Feb 7 2023 15:11 utc | 74

...There you go again. . .
“PRC government surveillance balloons transited the continental United States briefly at least three times during the prior administration and once that we know of at the beginning of this administration, but never for this duration of time,” a U.S. defense official said Sunday.. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 7 2023 15:30 utc | 75

Canada, they are happy to free ride on USA protection, and when they have a chance to contribute a bit to the protection of USA, they drop the ball. That deserves some punishment, e.g.

exclude from intelligence sharing for six month

exclude from purchasing USA flying hardware for five years, they do nothing with it anyway.

Or just impose both penalties indefinitely. The first one is apparently quite cruel, so I was thinking about a shorter period, but really, Canada should be punished and suffer until they whail and beg.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 7 2023 14:48 utc | 72

As a Canadian, I enthusiastically second that motion. Cancel the recent order for 88 (lol) F-35's and all the other MIC tribute and grift.

There has only been one serious invasion of Canada, and that was from the south. Does Russia need more tundra? Our expensive to extract oil? Ukrainian lobbyists?

As an aside, NORAD's Canadian spokesperson says they tracked the balloon's path across Canada as they have with similar balloons in the past.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 7 2023 16:14 utc | 76

China knows the US better than we do.
...from Global Times on the balloon:

. . .However, Chinese analysts consider that the recent incident and the hysterical overreaction of shooting down the airship are proof that the Biden administration is incapable of removing obstacles that were created by hawkish and conservative internal forces to realize effective engagement with China and to manage accidents with China via communication and coordination.
In response to the claim by the US that they will not return the debris to China, Mao Ning, a spokesperson of the Chinese Foreign Ministry, said at a routine press conference on Tuesday that the Chinese government will firmly safeguard its legitimate rights. "The airship belongs to China, not the US."
According to the VOA, the "balloon incident" will impact Biden's upcoming State of the Union address, as the president might focus more on how to deal with "increasing pressures from China." . . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 7 2023 16:37 utc | 77

Posted by: N Hanrahan | Feb 6 2023 16:34 utc | 27

"Send in the clowns. There ought to be clowns."

Don't worry. An endless production line is ensuring an ample supply - even an over-supply - in fact a huge surplus.

Posted by: Jams O'Donnell | Feb 7 2023 17:35 utc | 78

Thank you b - yours seems almost the only sensible post on this thread so far. That dip in the polar vortex has affected where I live in New Mexico for a number of years now. It plays havoc with the migration of sandhill cranes, which fly overhead as early as possible in order to grab the best nesting spaces up north. If they, who really depend on an accurate prediction for their own safety, are often fooled by a false spring, how much more are we here below, which seems obvious in the cacaphony of assumptions your calm posting above has occasioned.

At least the cranes' honking overhead has a mellifluous musicality to it. Fly safely, cranes.

Posted by: juliania | Feb 7 2023 17:38 utc | 79

The Chinese launched the balloon and tracked it at all times. The US also tracked it at all times. When was the first date and time the Chinese communicated with the US about the balloon relative to the date and time it entered US waters over the Aleutians? The article doesn't say (no fault of B.) but one would think the Chinese would be more than willing to disclose such details if the incident was truly unintentional on their part. The Chinese appear to be deliberately vague about these details. If I missed it, please fill me in.

VanHerck's statement (@73) is not credible, and it strikes me as a feeble attempt to minimize harm to Biden while actually exacerbating harm by focusing attention on the US tracking the current balloon from its early location over the Pacific. Questions arise, such as why didn't the Biden admin say something about the balloon when it reached Alaska? Who in the US admin was positioned to say something and chose not to? Why did they wait until it reached Montana? I am no fan of Biden, but the balloon appears to be a minor incident used to humiliate Biden, not by the Chinese but rather by US actors (possibly military). The scent of retaliation for the "Russia, Russia, Russia" hoax is in the air just prior to the state of the union address. The Chinese vagueness appears to be an attempt to remain neutral relative to the opposing forces in the US.

Posted by: mrr52 | Feb 7 2023 18:59 utc | 80

The footage of how the US shot down the spy balloon has been released
https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/43728

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 7 2023 21:26 utc | 81

I expect this means the Chinese will start shooting down our escaped weather balloons too.

Posted by: ATM | Feb 8 2023 4:03 utc | 82

Posted by: brian | Feb 7 2023 0:49 utc | 56

-------------------

HELLO Brian
Long time no see

------------------

HOme of the brag, land of the freak..

Enjoy....

China poses serious strategic threat to Canada,

THE CHINESE AND RUSSIANS ARE PREPARING TO CARRY OUT AN ALL-OUT INVASION OF THE UNITED STATES [1]

U.S. and allies accuse China of global hacking spree

China Plans To Invade The United States
Leaked speech from China officials – the invasion of the

Chinese invasion of Taiwan may come sooner than expected

Experts Warn a 'Horrible Surprise Coming', US-China Military Clash Within Six Months
07-16-2020


China Preparing for “D-Day” INVASION of the Continental United States, With Forces to Land on the Beaches of California, as Biden and Newsom Serve as China’s Accomplices: Sources
by Mike Adams May 20, 2022 in Opinions

US general predicts country will be at war with China in 2025


Top general warns China could soon spring surprise nuclear strike on US
November 17, 2021

China’s terrifying master plan for Australia, ANU warns

‘UNPREDICTABLE’ THREAT Australia told to prepare for Chinese bombing raids on air bases after Beijing threatens long-range missile strikes
10 May 2021

Oz
Chinese invasion imminent, chemical warfare no less
2020

BREAKING NEWS: Chinese spy balloon likely gathering intel for EMP attack

China is going to attack U.S. and its allies soon
2021

BLACKOUT China plotting Pearl Harbor-style surprise EMP attack on US that would kill hundreds of millions, expert claims
20 Jun 2020

Tip of an iceberg
bUT you get the drift.

[1]
This from the commonsenseblog, no less

ROFLMAO

Posted by: denk | Feb 8 2023 4:11 utc | 83

Who cares if we lied or not about the communication! There is NOT THE POINT!

It does not matter if the Chinese communicated with us or not. Any aircraft of theirs should be shot down, period. No questions asked, no justifications given.

Posted by: susette | Feb 14 2023 20:04 utc | 84

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