Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 08, 2023

Hersh: "How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline"

Updated below:

You all will want to discuss this ...

Seymour Hersh:

How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline
The New York Times called it a “mystery,” but the United States executed a covert sea operation that was kept secret—until now

The above was only just published. I am currently busy but will eventually read it and make up my mind.

Update: 13:50 UTC

I have now read the piece but I am someone in doubt over it. The story that Hersh tells seems incomplete and not researched as deeply as possible. I bet that his sources know more than that.

But it still fits with the tale I had constructed from open data a day after the pipeline was destroyed:

While the Baltops 22 maneuver already took place in June and July of this year the U.S. Sixth Fleet left the Baltic Sea only a few days ago (in German, my translation):

Big Fleet Group From U.S. Navy Passes [German island passage] Fehmanbelt

On Wednesday morning the amphibious assault ship USS Kearsarge, escorted by the Landing Ships USS Arlington and USS Gunston Hall, was en route towards west. Previously, the ships were part of US units that took part in NATO maneuvers and called at numerous ports in Germany, Scandinavia and the Baltic States.

The "USS Kearsarge", flagship of the association and largest warship of the US Navy, which was in action in the Baltic Sea in the last 30 years, has 40 helicopters and fighter planes as well as more than 2000 soldiers on board, the escort ships about 1000. For the around 4,000 soldiers are heading back home on the east coast of the US after their six-month deployment.

Parts of the Kearsange operations in the Baltic Sea were dedicated to test special sub sea mine destruction technologies:

A significant focus of BALTOPS every year is the demonstration of NATO mine hunting capabilities, and this year the U.S. Navy continues to use the exercise as an opportunity to test emerging technology, U.S. Naval Forces Europe-Africa Public Affairs said June 14.

In support of BALTOPS, U.S. Navy 6th Fleet partnered with U.S. Navy research and warfare centers to bring the latest advancements in unmanned underwater vehicle mine hunting technology to the Baltic Sea to demonstrate the vehicle’s effectiveness in operational scenarios.

Experimentation was conducted off the coast of Bornholm, Denmark, with participants from Naval Information Warfare Center Pacific, Naval Undersea Warfare Center Newport, and Mine Warfare Readiness and Effectiveness Measuring all under the direction of U.S. 6th Fleet Task Force 68.

Off the coast of Bornholm, Denmark, is where the pipelines were hit. Just days ago the USS Kearsarge was in that area:

Back then I presented just the available fact and left the conclusion open for the reader to chose.

But it has since become more and more obvious that the U.S. was responsible for the enormous economic damage to Germany that its action has caused.

The gloating by Sec State Anthony Blinken and his deputy Victoria Nuland is just too too obvious. It is a"tremendous strategic opportunity for the years to come" said Blinken and Nuland, in a Congress hearing, was "very gratified to know that Nord Stream 2 is now, as you like to say, a hunk of metal."

Most Germans, if not their pliant government, have drawn their conclusions from that.

Posted by b on February 8, 2023 at 13:10 UTC | Permalink

next page »

S.B.S team [UK] with USA equipment and backup, becomes joint effort. NATO informed after event.

Posted by: slippery | Feb 8 2023 13:19 utc | 1

for those that asked about the chemical weaokns used on RF soldiers. ukies filmed from their drone and published their war crime.sorry if its old news

Posted by: hankster | Feb 8 2023 13:27 utc | 2

for readers of the best-selling Swedish "WALLANDER" crime novels - the last installment of that series is about the very same case Hersh is referring to, Operation "Ivy Bells", US installing listening devices at Russian deep-sea comm-cables during the Cold War.

But as is, this revelation politically means nothing.

Berlin government knew it all along. And since it´s all anonymous sources no one is culpable.

Posted by: AG | Feb 8 2023 13:34 utc | 3

not that I doubt that the US ordered & possibly executed the thing (although they're better on the subcontracting dept ^^), but a cheap "according to a source with knowledge" /"the source said" is as comical as any "intel" from "us officials" copy-pasted in MSM. reads more like a script fed to Hersh to sink him rather than the pipeline, à la the Newsroom season 2.

Posted by: gondwanaland | Feb 8 2023 13:35 utc | 4

cui bono - not germany, not russia, only the US.

Posted by: Kaiama | Feb 8 2023 13:37 utc | 5

Interesting read.

I don’t think there is any surprise in this article as to the who and the why. All it tells us is the how.

Posted by: Down South | Feb 8 2023 13:50 utc | 6

We already knew this was ordered by the empire. If this account of the physical facts is correct it just fills in the details. The interpretation that it was "against Russia" is false; the primary target has been Germany and all of Europe, with the full consent of the captive Eurotrash governments. (That blowing up the pipeline constitutes "standing up to the Germans" is one of the most farcical things I've read thruout this war.)

Meanwhile anyone who has believed the obviously absurd Russia-did-it notion, because they wanted to believe that, will dismiss this and continue to believe that.

For anyone in the US still confused about US politics, the account is yet another example of how at the federal level the US has no democracy and no party difference, just a monoparty with a monolithic agenda and two fake factions that engage in fake fights within the framework of fake elections and fake democracy. The US political class is monolithic in its terminal lust for WWIII.

Humanity is not going to vote its way out of this.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Feb 8 2023 13:50 utc | 7

A perfectly planned and executed operation. America at its best. Kudos to all involved.

Seems this pet project evolved from should we do it to can we do it alk by itself and took a life of its own. Taking all of Washington with it.

Wonder if the Spy Museum in Washington DC will have an interactive exhibit on this as they have about the Bin Laden raid. It woukd be pretty cool to interactively blow up mini pipelines on a table. LoL

Oh and LoL Germany. They end up looking like a bunch of dickless cucks for eternity.

Congrats Germany. You got PLAYED.

Posted by: Comandante | Feb 8 2023 13:51 utc | 8

German men should just cut to the chase and castrate themselves, and send their balls to the US.

Posted by: Chris | Feb 8 2023 13:56 utc | 9

"... He was a hardliner on all things Putin and Russia who had cooperated with the American intelligence community since the Vietnam War. He has been trusted completely since. “He is the glove that fits the American hand,” the source said..."

Since the Vietnam war! Stoltenberg has been a CIA asset for half a century. No doubt Borrell and von der Leyen are too. Scholtz? Macron? Starmer, certainly. Meloni, likely? Varadkar, too, I expect. Sturgeon is, undoubtedly. The only British politicians who aren't CIA are MI6- a handful of exceptions on the left, but less than one might think.
NATO was always an organisation designed to take over europe so that the Soviet Union, in the unlikely event that it would want to, couldn't.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 8 2023 13:59 utc | 10

I don’t like that he uses anonymous sources to make the case.

But, I’ll believe it. Hersch is a legit journalist. So, I was wrong that U.S. wouldn’t do this to an ally.

I don’t know what to say - this isn’t the situation we should want to be in. The Biden administration is out-of-control.

Posted by: GoFast | Feb 8 2023 14:00 utc | 11

@11 Posted by: GoFast | Feb 8 2023 14:00 utc

The Biden administration is out-of-control

Yes, and the whole revelation puts Putin's cautious approach to the war in a better light, IMO. He is dealing with actual psychopaths.

Posted by: Chris | Feb 8 2023 14:07 utc | 12

@hankster | Feb 8 2023 13:27 utc | 2

Thanks for posting that clip. The green banded munition dropped on the Russian soldiers reminded me of the small shells seen being stored in a refrigerator by Ukrainian soldiers. Redacted reported on this recently. A Ukrainian unit had filmed themselves manufacturing and storing chemical weapons.

Posted by: cirsium | Feb 8 2023 14:09 utc | 13

i had presumed the sabotage by the us navy seals who have publicized capacity to do what happened to the nordstream pipelines.

i checked on new norweigan radar, which new is us designator: lockheed martin an/tpy 4, it is a buy off a new us military tactical radar. norwey is receiving p-8's which are a boeing 737 version of the p-3, which lost a propeller to a plaaf fighter near hianan about 20 years ago, has a new surface surveillance radar over p-3, an/apy 10. looks as much like technology replacement as increased surveillance ability.

there is motive, and ability.

hersch may be close!

Posted by: paddy | Feb 8 2023 14:12 utc | 14

@Chris #12

It's more accurate to say that the "deep state" is out of control. Remember, they believe it's possible to win a nuclear war.

Posted by: Cynica | Feb 8 2023 14:15 utc | 15

German men should just cut to the chase and castrate themselves, and send their balls to the US.

Posted by: Chris | Feb 8 2023 13:56 utc | 9

To be fair, the German government is between a rock and a hard place. Now unable to receive the necessary quantities of natural gas from Russia even if it wanted to, it urgently needs LNG imports from the US among others. Not a particular good situation to publically consider the obvious involvement of the US, much less to call them out on it. So, I wouldn't blame the German government for its non-reaction per se right now.

However, chances are it won't have any consequences even in the medium to long term, knowing the German political elites and how they are mostly in the firm grip of transatlantic organisations. I do wonder why the leaders of the German economy, especially the small and medium sized enterprises, are not uttering a word of criticism though...

Posted by: Tlaloc | Feb 8 2023 14:17 utc | 16

@ Chris

I’m inclined to agree with you. The Bennett revelation that he was working to end the war, and secured major concessions from Putin, but was scuttled by the West secures the view that the West are co-belligerents in the war.

Posted by: GoFast | Feb 8 2023 14:20 utc | 17

As I said in the last post:

Why is the Imperialist States of Amerikastan leaking the story to Hersh now? (Of course it is a deliberate leak and the "no truth to it" statements are pro forma only.) Two reasons immediately come to mind:

1. By now the Bidet regime knows Germanistan is far too much of a craven slave to do anything, even issue a protest, and

2. It is a warning to the other Europistani slaves that if they attempt to repair relations with Russia they'll be forced to bear the consequences.

Also, if it's a deliberate leak, every "detail" in it is at best suspect, and most likely an all out lie.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 8 2023 14:22 utc | 18

Meanwhile, Russia is again closing in on Kupyansk.

When it abandoned Kupyansk in September it put up no resistance to keep the city, now it's having to fight for every kilometre to retake it.

Exactly as I predicted, while the Martyanovists were going on about how "territory can be easily retaken".

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 8 2023 14:26 utc | 19

Tlaloc | Feb 8 2023 14:17 utc | 16

"To be fair, the German government is between a rock and a hard place...So, I wouldn't blame the German government for its non-reaction per se right now."

They put themselves there in the first place, 100% of their own free will. All its reactions and non-reactions follow from this. And the electorate voted for exactly what it wanted. Same for the rest of European "garden."*

*Neither a well-tended healthy garden nor a naturally healthy jungle, but a garden space untended, unkempt, choked with invasive weeds, strewn with litter, inhabited by rats and cockroaches. That's incipient Dark Age Europe as it has chosen to become.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Feb 8 2023 14:31 utc | 20

Germany is an occupied nation, and i assume that it's public institutions are as corrupt as the nation that occupies it. Imagine having your lifeline blown up by the slave master, and then being beaten until you send tanks to it's proxy was. Humiliating to say the least. NATO really is designed to keep the USA in, Russia out and Germany down.

Posted by: Chevrus | Feb 8 2023 14:34 utc | 21

Posted by: Comandante | Feb 8 2023 13:51 utc | 8

Like any gang of bullies, Blinken and Nuland have been itching to disclose that "we did it, we did it." Now one version of "who did it" is out. There may be more versions if the heat to persecute these criminals gets too hot. That is how they have been operating: exploitation and dishonesty.

One more observation: According to the American Rules by Rules, I did this that is kosher, if Russia did it or China did it, then it is criminal and not following international laws.

Why Norway was so dumb? Norway should have let US blow NS1&2 up.

Posted by: kitaySupporter | Feb 8 2023 14:35 utc | 22

Have not read the new piece.
But what about the text sent from LettuceLiztoBlink.
, "it's done"
Which may or may not contradict the other pieces of the puzzle.

Posted by: CitizenKayne | Feb 8 2023 14:37 utc | 23

The shoes fit. Lets see if they walk.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 8 2023 14:37 utc | 24

German so-called economy minister Habeck had been travelling to Washington some time before the attack , begging the Biden admin to do something about Nordstream II and has been celebrated on the latest congress of the Green party for his "acomplishment". The Greens are thriving, piggybacking the Ukraine war as it vastly accelerates their medieval de-industrialisation agenda. They can implement it without any backlash from the public, because everything is Putin's fault. Germany is not only a vasall state of the US; it is far worse.

Posted by: Kenan | Feb 8 2023 14:38 utc | 25

Almost simultaneously, some Western press organs drown in hyperventilation about Putin having personally ordered the shootdown of MH17...

The background is that the Dutch prosecutors proclaimed the end of investigations due to insufficient evidence, with a side blow towards Putin by saying they had evidence that he played an "active role" in the downing of MH17...


Posted by: mk | Feb 8 2023 14:41 utc | 26

As a German, I am very curious to see the reaction, first of the German media (will they ignore it?), and second of the Scholz government. Short of an apology by the US and financial compensation, within a sensible timeframe, the "alliance" should be terminated, along with Germany's NATO membership. The one tube of NS2 that survived the sabotage should be put to service, if still possible.

Of course, none of the above is very likely to happen. But there is a chance that, should Scholz try to ignore the matter or explain it away in his usual fashion, there will be a public uprising, spelling an end to his time as chancellor.

Posted by: grunzt | Feb 8 2023 14:45 utc | 27

Posted by: Chevrus | Feb 8 2023 14:34 utc | 21

Damn straight!

Just take down the German flag flying over the Bundestag, and declare it the 51st state.

Posted by: Chris | Feb 8 2023 14:46 utc | 28

We expected sooner or later ALL will be made public in print. Hersh was given the task. Someone's conscience too much to bear for this dastardly deed.

Days ago, I posted on another thread that the rules of American baseball have three (3) strikes and you are out......meaning in respect of the UKR war, one can hardly expect the Russians to rest any confidence in "agreements" with the US/EU empires of Lies.

1. Merkel-Hollande confessionals; the Minsk agreement a ruse to permit arming up for war.
2. NordStream destruction by the US. Annie's hubby former Poland FM tweeted "Thank you USA" and Lizzie Truss' texting - "it's done. The evil doers boasting. Hell to pay for this destruction.
3. Naftali Bennett, the Chosen one -former Israeli PM's, recent confessional - "West stopped the peace process" being himself a go-between mediator.

And uncle $cam dare label or sanction any country a state sponsor of terrorism. Cheat, Steal, Plunder, Murder. Then Lie about it.

What is termed 'global south' peoples are no longer information deprived and are ditching their existence to uncle scam's canoe [sans a paddle and life vests]. No longer can that vessel be considered a mighty ship.

Anglo$phere people will soon realize how it feels to be isolated and poverty ridden.

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 8 2023 14:51 utc | 29

Hersh, a genuine honest independent journalist?

Like Woodward (the CIA Naval intelligence stooge suddenly installed at Wapo with the dodgy owner?) and Bernstein, with their fake ‘deepthroat’?

The Mockinbirds have been around a long long time now. And they have only grown in the past 50 years.

Seymour’s gatekeepering seems to completely leave out the ‘it’s done’ text by the British slag PM - Liz Truss immediately after the pipeline was blown. The Lady Macbeth bloody hands can not be washed so easily.

This seems to be an attempt by natzo to put the hair shirt on the US, hence taking the pressure off their satraps in the European government’s as the protests grow daily.
It seems like a panic response so that the European leaders can claim ‘it weren’t me it was the big bully’ - the snivelling little bastards.

Today the racist Nazi ‘elensky, came to the U.K. Parliament, a bit like the fake saviour Jesus that he has been carefully constructed and managed as, with his Hollywood handlers, with palms under his step, led by the clown king Bozo, you know, the one who has long stepped down as PM ,but seems to be calling the shots still.
This means only one thing - Elensky is a Dead Man Walking - and the Judas is Bozo and the US is playing Rome , whilst ‘washing their hands’.

Easter will have seen him martyred. He can not be allowed to live and spill any inconvenient beans in future years.

I believe b’s instantaneous analysis to be a lot more accurate. Then and Now. The show is to misinform the European man in the street.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 8 2023 14:54 utc | 30

@2 Those are not chemical weapons dropped by that drone but frag grenades. It's from the failed assault on Vuhledar

Posted by: Wappius Maximus | Feb 8 2023 14:56 utc | 31

If Hersch's story is at all accurate, then Norway is the key to unravelling it. Norwegian military/security seems to have participated enthusiastically; I presume the Government agreed & approved. What are the rules in Norway for reporting things like this to the Storting? Were those rules followed? Are they usually followed? Are there any Parties in the Storting which would be willing to ask the hard questions?

I would expect this report to cause a political stink in Norway, fairly quickly. Perhaps I have a rosy view of Norway, but they seem to be far further along the path to real Democracy than the USA (though that's not saying much).

Perhaps worse, this implies that Norway assisted the USA in an Act of War - on both Russia *and* Germany (and perhaps Sweden, whose owns the benthic mud where the attack happened).

Posted by: elkern | Feb 8 2023 14:58 utc | 32

b criticizing the lacking depth. I understand. But Hersh is 85. And I don´t know how many aides he has. This kind of reporting takes a lifetime of trust. Altogether, as b also says, the story is holding up. And may be more will follow.

As said. No one involved will have to fear any consequences. Only an award for bravery.

Posted by: AG | Feb 8 2023 15:02 utc | 33

Hersh always uses anonymous sources. And his track record is stellar.

Nothing new about motive. But the means is interesting. And of course how the opportunity was made.

Of course - just as with Snowden bombshells about ubiquitous illegal surveillance of global populations - meh - nothing will come of it.


Posted by: gottlieb | Feb 8 2023 15:02 utc | 34

The article fails to discuss why only 3 of the 4 pipelines were destroyed. Was one deliberately left intact (if so, why?) or did charges on the fourth pipeline fail to detonate for some reason?

Posted by: Mike314159 | Feb 8 2023 15:09 utc | 35

A pedantic comment on Hersh, HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

" (The Norwegians may have had other interests as well. The destruction of Nord Stream—if the Americans could pull it off—would allow Norway to sell vastly more of its own natural gas to Europe.)". Norwegians had little capacity to increase the VOLUME of the gas sold to Europe, but over the frantic months of summer and fall, the vastly increased the REVENUE, which is even better: more money with the same cost and before. Several players extracted enormous amount from Germans and other Europeans, enough to wage a medium size war, I guess.

Of course, the missing part of the tale is how German (and European in general) political system got totally castrated. From Marxist-like perspective, industry still plays a huge role in Germany, between jobs and profits, influencing left and right, but where they see jobs and profits, Atlanticists see "malign influence".

About secrecy: even if you castrate the political system, there are still insufficiently penetrated "populist movements" that can represent the suppressed interests of industry (with all its multiplier effects). For example, in Poland the left is a lost cause, penetrated perhaps even before the fall of Soviet Union if not immediately after, with "eccentric right wing" currently seem best in articulating the national interest, like the hashtag #"this is not our war", #toNieNaszaWojna. Deniability plus media dominance plus penetration (taming) may keep those movements down.

I am guessing that what I call penetration takes time, and this is why Western left is so powerless, the efforts started much earlier.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 8 2023 15:10 utc | 36

"Most Germans, if not their pliant government, have drawn their conclusions from that."

Because you're German, I would give that sentence the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise it's hard for me to see what conclusion "most Germans" have drwan from the incident, apart from compliance.

Posted by: Steve | Feb 8 2023 15:14 utc | 37

Seymore Hersh is Intel and is skilled at mixing kernels of truth with diversionary lies. A third level disinformation agent, for those who see through the first layer of CIA lies.

Recall his reporting on the alleged assassination of OBL or his appearance at the end of the Errol Morris documentary "Wormwood".

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 8 2023 15:15 utc | 38

Posted by: Mike314159 | Feb 8 2023 15:09 utc | 35
Classic Cock-up/mild incompetence.

Posted by: irish al | Feb 8 2023 15:15 utc | 39

Given that Seymour Hersh has now documented the manner in which the USA did the Nordstream 2 pipeline attack, is it Politically Correct to finally call the United States of America a state sponsor of terrorism?

Or is that designation still a Thought Crime?

Posted by: ak74 | Feb 8 2023 15:19 utc | 40

With the Hersh confirmation on NordStream attack – fingers who did the dirty deed, Russia is now emboldened in the war of words and Americans need a wake-up call; it was not the US that defeated the Nazis in 1944-45:

Can there be any doubt why now this is so blunt

Russia warns of direct clash with US

Washington is seeking a deterrence advantage over Russia, which could cause an outright war, Moscow has warned


8 February, 2023

The US has “unleashed a total hybrid war” against Russia and is putting the two nuclear nations on a path to direct confrontation, the Russian Foreign Ministry has said. It claims Washington’s demands for nuclear inspections in Russia are “cynical”, considering its “obvious” assistance in Ukrainian attacks against Russian strategic nuclear forces.

The allegations were part of the Ministry’s public comments on the status of the New START treaty, the last remaining US-Russian agreement on nuclear weapons reduction. According to US media, the Department of State notified the Congress last week that Russia was in “noncompliance” due to a refusal to facilitate inspections on its soil.

The Russian Foreign Ministry said that was not true, since the treaty allows suspension of inspection. Washington was the first to start barring Russian monitors from doing their job in the US, it alleged. The ministry said that “created obvious unilateral benefits” for the US and prompted a response in kind by Moscow.

The 2010 treaty was signed in a different environment and is based on the notion that the US and Russia are equal partners who seek to build trust and improve global security through disarmament, as reflected in its text, the ministry explained.

But now that Washington has declared the “strategic defeat”of Russia as its goal and ramped up tensions in all aspects of bilateral relations, there can be no “business as usual” with the US, according to the statement. [bold emphasis added here]

“Until Washington revises its hostile stance regarding Russia and drops the policy of increasing the threats towards our national security,” Moscow will consider any proposed gestures of goodwill under the nuclear treaty “unjustified, untimely and uncalled for.”

The Russian ministry didn’t elaborate on which “strategic nuclear forces objects” the Ukrainian side attacked with US help, which allegedly involved “military-technical and information-intelligence” aspects.[.](original emphasis italics § bold added)

It is very clear, do not call us. We are not bluffing.
Do govern yourselves accordingly.

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 8 2023 15:21 utc | 41

Also, 'Clearance Divers' ...

Throughout all of this, Russian troops had been steadily and ominously building up on the borders of Ukraine, and by the end of December more than 100,000 soldiers were in position to strike from Belarus and Crimea.

Anyone who believes Seymour Hersh is anything other than a suborned & managed lifelong asset, routinely utilized as a controlled perceived credible outlet ... you have not been paying attention.

In any case, the partial corroborating crumbs & tidbits are better than nothing, along with the very limited 'unofficial' incomplete partial confirmation, yet the framing & obvious omissions ?

Standing routine opportunistic & aggressive objective of the US & vassal militarys is the targeting, recruitment, compromise & suborning of any foreign(Non US) military personnel, especially aspiring, privileged access or crucially placed individuals under the direction of the Intelligence services & Defense Attaches.
By extension thence furtherance of such through those suborned, to achieve Empires objectives & always firstly to have influence let alone desirable direct control over a foreign nations military command/crucial positions/roles & loyalty to the State.

US utterly controlled NATO has done this ongoing from day one to its 'allied' member nations. Same for the EU. Many serve Empires interests, not the nation they swore an oath of allegiance to faithfully serve. The Vampyres have played a long game ... and they never rest re such ops.

Secret ghost members, under NSA re 5+-9+-14+-Eyes & NATO ? German Intelligence services & largely NATO staff have been wholly suborned by the US since the seeds of especially the BND etc & Bundeswehr starting in late '46 ... Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Norway & the rest ...

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 8 2023 15:21 utc | 42

".Why Norway was so dumb? Norway should have let US blow NS1&2 up." kitaySupporter@22

After decades in which it has become more and more apparent that the "political life" of NATO countries is little more than an empty sham, the pretence that there is any power to be fought for, all but the sleaziest careerists (Biden) and shallow narcissists (Johnson) keep well away from the political scene.
This means that the only people really interested in 'politics' in places like Norway, Denmark, the UK and Germany are the professionals-the cops, the spooks, the military, the bureaucrats, the media propagandists.
For the military and the security services, and every one else let in on the deal the pipeline operation was incredibly exciting, important and consequential. It was the very essence of what matters to them: the exercise of raw power, uncontrolled and beyond criticism. It gives them a real sense of liberation to feel that they are part of the Imperial system, secure in the knowledge that the people that they work for/under/with are omnipotent. They rule the world.

The implications of the current malaise, the political vacuum are enormous. As the rapid rise of Sara Wagenknecht in opinion polls is showing the current situation is one in which a 'left' prepared to go out on a limb and represent itself as wanting, and working for, the end of capitalism and the use of national sovereignty as a stepping stone towards socialism, can make rapid strides.
Just as, by attempting to curry favour with the media and the ruling class, the reformist leadership of Die Linke is quickly leading the party into political obscurity. Why should anyone vote for a party which is indistinguishable from those its natural supporters detest?

Posted by: bevin | Feb 8 2023 15:22 utc | 43

Hope Russia destroys NATO in Ukraine, then rebuilds the pipelines. Who t.f. are lowlifes like Cruz, Ron Johnson and of course Nuland/Blinken to decide who Germany trades with?

Posted by: dondo | Feb 8 2023 15:27 utc | 44

b deserved a Pulitzer for that one.
What is needed now is that Hersh and b publish a join paper on a major media.

Posted by: Mina | Feb 8 2023 15:28 utc | 45

Within the next 20 years we will need to rid America and the West of this neocon scourge if we are to live in a Peaceful and Prosperous World

Posted by: Northern Observer | Feb 8 2023 15:32 utc | 46

@27 grunzt | Feb 8 2023 14:45 utc | 27

gonna take a while, but eventually the German position w.r.t. NATO and the US will change. Once Russia successfully completes it's Ukraine mission, the current German establishment is toast.

Posted by: xeen | Feb 8 2023 15:32 utc | 47


As most every engagement between Ukraine troops defending and Russians attacking; the recovery of lost territory they were unable to effectively defend at the time; the now reinvigorated and filled out Russian units are destroying Ukie defenders at a considerably higher level than their own losses. So it amounts to a crude but effective means of removing the remnants of Ukie power.

Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 8 2023 15:45 utc | 48

Chevrus @21

Astute and succinct analysis. Thanks

Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 8 2023 15:46 utc | 49

@7 Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Feb 8 2023 13:50 utc | 7

Germany is a defeated vassal run by comprador elites, foremost the Greens and FDP. Many Germans know better, but have kinda made themselves comfortable in the prison.
It's destiny is to get up and throw off the yoke of the US and NATO. I think that will eventually happen, and I think it's going to be Russia which will play a major role in this process. Russia has most to win from a sovereign German nation than anybody except of course the Germans themselves.

Posted by: xeen | Feb 8 2023 15:49 utc | 50

Wappius Afflatus Maximus @31

From which orfice did you pull that bit of drivel?

Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 8 2023 15:54 utc | 51

Elkus @32

A political stink in Norway would be best achieved by someone inserting a nice large chunk of Gamel Ost (a tasty but very stinky cheese) into the ductwork in the Storting.

Now THAT would send a message. Perhaps some Norskie who had recovered from the Christian takeover of Norge would have the gamle Viking stones to pull off such a truly patriotic stunt.

Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 8 2023 15:59 utc | 52

Those in this forum critical of Seymour Hersh are unaware of the murder …. in recent “History” ….

This report will be considered valuable for Julian Assange’s legal team and, dare say, any attempt by the USUK lying overlords to accuse the RF of any, or and all UKR civilian deaths.

Lest we forget the sordid history.
See why Hersh was tasked with revealing who did NordStream?

1969 - this day, November 12 
“Seymour Hersh breaks My Lai Massacre story”

In a cable filed through Dispatch News Service and picked up by more than 30 newspapers, investigative journalist Seymour Hersh reveals the extent of the U.S. Army’s charges against 1st Lt. William L. Calley at My Lai. Hersh wrote: “The Army says he [Calley] deliberately murdered at least 109 Vietnamese civilians during a search-and-destroy mission in March 1968, in a Viet Cong stronghold known as ‘Pinkville.'”

The incident, which became known as the My Lai Massacre, took place in March 1968. Between 200 and 500 South Vietnamese civilians were murdered by U.S. soldiers from Company C, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry, 11th Infantry Brigade of the Americal Division.

During a sweep of the cluster of hamlets known as My Lai 4, the U.S. soldiers–particularly those from Calley’s first platoon–indiscriminately shot people as they ran from their huts, and then systematically rounded up the survivors, allegedly leading them to a ditch where Calley gave the order to “finish them off.”

The original investigation—which had been conducted in April 1968 by members of the 11th Infantry Brigade, the unit involved in the affair—concluded that no massacre had occurred and that no further action was warranted.[.] However, when the cover-up was discovered, [.]

Cheat, steal, murder, lie about it.

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 8 2023 16:04 utc | 53

@aristodemos I just look at telegram, loads of fucked up content from the Vuhledar offensive was released by Ukraine over the past few days, those dudes in the creek had been getting bombed by drone dropped grenades not chemical weapons you can see some shrapnel flying in the video that was linked by @2.

Posted by: Wappius Maximus | Feb 8 2023 16:04 utc | 54

In my experience, when Hersh reports, it’s from god’s lips to my ears.
I’ve read a couple of serious charges against Hersh, on the thread.
Maybe even a little mocking.
Please enlighten me further.
I don’t see it, so I don’t buy it.
Do I see an iron clad case for impeachment, followed by much worse, I hope.
Bet yer ass.
Isn’t that garbage ass, never a man, an eco terrorist, amongst other things?
Or will my garbage ass, fellow citizens try, “all’s fair game in war.”?
Like Vlad says, “every word matters. Choose them cautiously.”
Man must have ice water running through his veins.
Tried to talk to some dumbasses, at the gas station this morning, about the stupidity of fucking with the Russians, and the Chinamen.
Keep this shit up, and we’ll all be eating out of the dumpster, if we can cut the locks.
No one is having any of it.
It ain’t patriotism.
Most people here don’t believe in anything, of substance.
Kind of like a US football game.
Is this the Super Bowl?
What’s US v. China then?
Tell you what I think.
USA is about to get “smoked” by the proud Russian people.
Then it’s getting kicked out of the league.
Never gonna get to play against China.
And, there’s the rub.
This ain’t no fucking game, you no good son of a bitches.
Lots of REAL good people getting ruined.
Sorry for the rant.
Gods lips to my ears.

Posted by: $outhpaw | Feb 8 2023 16:12 utc | 55

Does anyone have a record of the norwegian P8 flying over the location of the explosion?

Posted by: Tuyzentfloot | Feb 8 2023 16:18 utc | 56

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 8 2023 14:26 utc | 19

When it abandoned Kupyansk in September it put up no resistance to keep the city, now it's having to fight for every kilometre to retake it.

Well, that doesn't sound like a good turn for Russia, does it?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Feb 8 2023 14:22 utc | 18

Why is the Imperialist States of Amerikastan leaking the story to Hersh now? (Of course it is a deliberate leak and the "no truth to it" statements are pro forma only.) Two reasons immediately come to mind:

1. By now the Bidet regime knows Germanistan is far too much of a craven slave to do anything, even issue a protest, and

2. It is a warning to the other Europistani slaves that if they attempt to repair relations with Russia they'll be forced to bear the consequences.

Also, if it's a deliberate leak, every "detail" in it is at best suspect, and most likely an all out lie.

Why is every news story a conspiracy, and how can anyone think coherently if they're drowned in obsessively pushing childish nicknames like you'd hear from 3rd grade bullies?

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Feb 8 2023 16:31 utc | 57

Does Hersh's report change anything? I very much doubt it. IMO, destroying NS will be the only victory the Outlaw US Empire will be able to claim in its war against Germany, for destroying the pipelines haven't harmed Russia at all. Thus, the Neocon glee is completely misplaced if they believe they dealt Russia a blow. The two reports I mentioned yesterday show beyond doubt that Russia's economy is humming and will continue to hum unlike all of NATO which is in the process of crumbling from the depredations its done to itself. Indeed, clearly NATO's hybrid war against Russia is also a hybrid war against NATO--a stunt Russia could never have done on its own.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 8 2023 16:33 utc | 58

When you've lost GoFast ...

Longtime lurker here. For a prescient companion piece, have a look at "America Defeats Germany for the Third Time in a Century," written just about a year ago [!] by another of Hersh's generation, Michael Hudson. If short of time or attention, search it for "Nord Stream."

Posted by: dingusansich | Feb 8 2023 16:41 utc | 59

I don't buy it at all. Seems like a limited hangout and/or misdirection.

What bothers me is the high level of detail combined with vagueness, describing a scenario implying a not insignificant paper trail being created and a large number of people being in the loop at every stage. Too much risk attached to that, and far too elaborate given what ultimately went down, which implied an opportunistic strike many weren't expecting and weren't briefed on. There was clearly no pre-agreed narrative, given how many people were pushing in different directions (it was an accident, it was Russia, it was the US and that's a good thing), among them spooky characters who would surely know if something like this was in the pipeline (pun unintended) or have received some kind of script to operate off.

Then there's the WaPo story in December last year based on anon briefings from Western intel officials and diplomats declaring there was no evidence of Russian culpability, and one source quoted as saying, "the governments that waited to comment before drawing conclusions played this right." My take on that was Washington - and Berlin - were and remain very unhappy with the actual culprit for acting without authorisation, and that article was a warning to be more careful in future, because they *could* get hung out to dry if need be.

Perhaps the biggest individual red flags were the CIA's purported hesitancy to carry it out, and the claim that Navy divers "operating under the cover" of BALTOPS 22 "planted the remotely triggered explosives" that blew up the pipeline. That exercise had already been flagged as suspicious in relation to NS2 - so Hersh's 'revelations' don't actually say anything new, beyond attributing the attack to the Navy (I don't believe they would be used for such a task, that'd be the CIA Special Activities Division if it was the US behind this, which I doubt). Moreover, as Hersh writes, that exercise was well-publicised, so it's inconceivable the Russians (and others) weren't watching it closely, and checking for hostile activity in its aftermath, by reflex.

Bear in mind t00 many films and TV shows supported by the US and British security and intelligence services have actively perpetuated the notion of training exercises being a cover/distraction for *something else* by shadowy actors, so this allegation plays upon a very common - and deep state approved - trope.

Posted by: Kit Klarenberg | Feb 8 2023 16:44 utc | 60

@kitaySupporter | Feb 8 2023 14:35 utc | 22

Why Norway was so dumb? Norway should have let US blow NS1&2 up.
Huh? Can you explain what this is supposed to mean?

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 8 2023 16:47 utc | 61

Norway does not have any operational P8's yet. They are still being phased in. So that part of the story is obviously wrong.

On the other hand there was a credible report of an American P8 going non stop with mid air refueling from the US to the area of the explosion and back again. Someone had found this on flight radar and made a YouTube video about it.

Posted by: Tor | Feb 8 2023 16:50 utc | 62

Posted by: Kit Klarenberg | Feb 8 2023 16:44 utc | 59

oh like the paper trails documenting US lies about Saddamns nonexistent WMD's. or Russiagate. yeah the US would never screw up like that. Colin Powell would never get up and give a speech at the UN lying about dump trucks and vials of anthrax, that would be too easily exposed.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 8 2023 16:51 utc | 63

thanks for covering this b... i think it is huge and extremely relevant... this is the event that defines the top in usa power.. it is all downhill from here as i see it..

Posted by: james | Feb 8 2023 16:53 utc | 64

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 8 2023 15:15 utc | 38

they whacked him and then they dumped his body overboard. did Hersh report differently?

Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 8 2023 16:54 utc | 65

The key information is that the President and his administration committed an act of war without informing Congress:

“This is not kiddie stuff,” the source said. If the attack were traceable to the United States, “It’s an act of war.”
On February 7, ... at the press briefing ..., Biden defiantly said, “If Russia invades . . . there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.”
Undersecretary Nuland .... had delivered essentially the same message at a State Department briefing, ... “If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another Nord Stream 2 will not move forward.”
Several of those involved in planning the pipeline mission were dismayed by what they viewed as indirect references to the attack.
According to the source, some of the senior officials of the CIA determined that blowing up the pipeline “no longer could be considered a covert option because the President just announced that we knew how to do it.”
The plan to blow up Nord Stream 1 and 2 was suddenly downgraded from a covert operation requiring that Congress be informed to one that was deemed as a highly classified intelligence operation with U.S. military support. Under the law, the source explained, “There was no longer a legal requirement to report the operation to Congress.”

I would love to see the legal opinion backing up that CIA determination that it "no longer could be considered a covert option" and "there was no longer a legal requirement to report the operation to Congress".

Posted by: M Le Docteur Ralph | Feb 8 2023 16:56 utc | 66

@ Kit Klarenberg | Feb 8 2023 16:44 utc | 59

that's fair... so what are your conclusions, or are you waiting for future facts to appear?? thanks..

personally, the obvious question has to be asked, why is there no study of this by the countries in the area? sweden, denmark and perhaps others?? or if there is, why isn't russia included in the analysis of this event? to me this speaks volumes and suggests the west is guilty here and unwilling to acknowledge it... transparency is not happening here.. it is the exact opposite..people will draw conclusions based off the actions or in-actions of others..

Posted by: james | Feb 8 2023 16:58 utc | 67

@Norwegian | Feb 8 2023 16:47 utc | 60

Huh? Can you explain what this is supposed to mean?
I have read the article now. I donæt know what to say except these people are war criminals and on behalf of sane Norwegians I apologize to the world for the criminal Quislings we have here.

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 8 2023 17:01 utc | 68

Given that leaks don't just happen, they happen for a reason, this sort-of confirmation that we, via informed speculation, have known about for months, means there are important questions. Why? More particularly, why now? What's the point in further humiliating the incompetent toady Scholz? Have the German industrialists finally grown a pair and decided to remove him by force, prior to asking the Russians to pretty-please connect the surviving NS2 pipe and supply the gas that they are willing, able and contractually obligated to do? Were the Leopards the final straw?

Posted by: pasha | Feb 8 2023 17:02 utc | 69

all this took was a quick "cui bono" and then they laid a "thank you" tweet on top like a cherry. cut and serve with occam's razor. the US is great at blowing shit up but subtlety is not their strength.

Posted by: the pair | Feb 8 2023 17:04 utc | 70

It is a limited hangout. Sure we did it but the hows and whos are mixed with misdirection.

Explosive-Laden Drone Found Near Nord Stream Pipeline

It could have been a drone parked next to the pipeline for years, it could have been a Norwegian operation with help from the US, it could have been US divers.

The who did it was obvious from the beginning. The Baltic pipeline was immediately commissioned.
Launch of the Baltic Pipe

Hersh is nothing more than a pipeline himself. A conduit of information and misinformation. We have lived through a long age of energy based geopolitics. This is nothing more than another move by those players.

Nordstream is forever dead and Russia moves its energy away from Europe until the Anglo American European elites gains control of Russia and profits from Russian energy.

They will never give up on that mission. Never ever. Erasing a millennium of Russian culture in the region is just a step in that direction. NATO and Russia were not ready for war. Russia moved the timetable up knowing that it was a certainty at some point in the future.

Posted by: circumspect | Feb 8 2023 17:08 utc | 71

@Likklemore #52

Hersh's publicizing of the My Lai massacre may have been meant as a limited hangout to suppress publicity of the Phoenix Program.

Posted by: Cynica | Feb 8 2023 17:08 utc | 72

It is a limited hangout. Sure we did it but the hows and whos are mixed with misdirection.

Explosive-Laden Drone Found Near Nord Stream Pipeline

It could have been a drone parked next to the pipeline for years, it could have been a Norwegian operation with help from the US, it could have been US divers.

The who did it was obvious from the beginning. The Baltic pipeline was immediately commissioned.
Launch of the Baltic Pipe

Hersh is nothing more than a pipeline himself. A conduit of information and misinformation. We have lived through a long age of energy based geopolitics. This is nothing more than another move by those players.

Nordstream is forever dead and Russia moves its energy away from Europe until the Anglo American European elites gains control of Russia and profits from Russian energy.

They will never give up on that mission. Never ever. Erasing a millennium of Russian culture in the region is just a step in that direction. NATO and Russia were not ready for war. Russia moved the timetable up knowing that it was a certainty at some point in the future.

Posted by: circumspect | Feb 8 2023 17:10 utc | 73

I remember Powell's aide describing the scene as Powell read the speech he was supposed to give to the UN, mumbling "no...this is bullshit...I'm not going to do it". spoiler alert, he did it. it's almost like the US fucks up on a regular basis, doesn't have all its ducks in a row before it embarks on yet another hare brained scheme. naw, let's smear Hersh, that's fair.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 8 2023 17:10 utc | 74

US (with UK probably) planned and planted the explosives.
It seems it was Norway that pulled the trigger.
This amounts to a declaration of war by Norway. The eventual Russian response will be well deserved when it eventually comes.

Posted by: Merandor | Feb 8 2023 17:10 utc | 75

@ Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 8 2023 16:54 utc | 64

"they whacked him and then they dumped his body overboard. did Hersh report differently?"

Yes, Hersh confirmed those key parts of the false narrative, yet said everything else was false. Which is why he is their go-to insider disinformation agent.

OBL was dead years before the Abbottabad event. Confirmed by high level local authorities like Benazir Bhutto and others. There were also interviews of immediate neighbours on Pakistani television who said that the operation did not happen as the US described and that OBL definitely did not live there.

Obama was dropping in the polls in 2011 and this was a made for TV event intended to boost his popularity. Like Biden shooting a Chinese weather drone.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 8 2023 17:15 utc | 76

@ Likklemore | Feb 8 2023 16:04 utc | 52

For those who may not be able to access the proffered link:

Seymour Hersh breaks My Lai Massacre story - NewYorker Magazine, Jan 14 1972.

Hm, who was the Army Major who actively covered-up the massacre, yet retrospectively framed his actions as him leading the investigation to useful evidence ... not.

Testified in the defense of the General most responsible. Served Casper Weinberger ... Don't ask, Don't Tell ... the Powell Doctrine ... Iran-Contra ... & much more ...

An officer of outstanding integrity, who subsequently rose to the position Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, & unwittingly(?), in all ignorance & naively, declared Iraq possessed WMDs, whilst holding aloft a vial of military grade Iraqi Anthrax(Actually talcum powder).

Was the timing of the managed, controlled, incomplete story of the Mai Lai massacre, whilst concealing others, as well as key players involved/compromised, timed to shift public opinion/die-hards in order to facilitate the final phase of 'Vietnamization', & hence assist/ease the abandonment of it's sacrificial suborned & utterly dependent proxy faux State against Nth Vietnam to its inevitable fate ?

Same as it ever was ... My Lai to the Iraq War.

Lt Calley ?

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 8 2023 17:18 utc | 77

"I have now read the piece but I am someone in doubt over it. The story that Hersh tells seems incomplete and not researched as deeply as possible."

Interesting how many doubts against Hersh here...
Kind of auto reflex?
Must stink somehow?
Can't follow this pace.

But pasha on #68 is an interesting idea, following cui bono.

Posted by: njet | Feb 8 2023 17:22 utc | 78

oh so Hersh didn't confirm your pet theory, so that makes him corrupt. bunch of horseshit. OBL was part of a plan to fly planes into building because of US interference in the Middle East. the US eventually whacked him because the last thing they wanted was to interrogate him. perfectly plausible, and the US didn't need some Tom Cruise Mission Impossible scenario to provide an excuse to invade Iraq, any more than they needed on in any of the other numerous invasions and proxy wars they have carried out since the Spanish American war. they didn't need to actually blow up the Maine, they just needed to lie about it, which they did, in newspapers. like I say, way too americans are living in hollywood cartoons in their heads.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 8 2023 17:24 utc | 79

yeah like I said, Powell was crucial in both mismanaged, uncontrolled, fuckups. yet you persist in framing it as a carefully controlled leak.the only reason the US is the hyperpower today is a lucky accident of geography. that's why their empire is going down far faster than that of the Brits or the Romans or other examples of far more competent countries.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 8 2023 17:27 utc | 80

I would love to see the legal opinion backing up that CIA determination that it "no longer could be considered a covert option" and "there was no longer a legal requirement to report the operation to Congress".
Posted by: M Le Docteur Ralph | Feb 8 2023 16:56 utc | 65

No legal opinion needed. They are fully covered. Technically, AUMF replaced Congress’ War Powers -the authority to declare war.

When was the last time the US president asked Congress to declare a war as required under the Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 11 [War Powers], now declared a relic?

Presidents rely on that fig leaf, AUMF -joint resolution of Congre$$ - Authorization for Use of Military Force, September 18 2001; happily renewed by successive Congre$$critters.

And, when does the CIA need legal cover for any task; their funding is off books - declared can't be revealed - as is under "national security" just because we said so.

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 8 2023 17:29 utc | 81

"The new works included, most importantly, an advanced synthetic aperture radar far up north that was capable of penetrating deep into Russia and came online just as the American intelligence community lost access to a series of long-range listening sites inside China."

What does that mean? Why did China allow the US to operate spying centers on their territory? When did it stop?

It sounds to me like the US used China not only for cheap labor for its corporations, if I am interpreting that correctly.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Feb 8 2023 17:33 utc | 82

Seymour Hersh is a career liar, specializing in anti-American fables.

Posted by: Leo G. | Feb 8 2023 17:41 utc | 83

59 Kit Klarenberg - The Hersh scenario seems overly elaborate for sabotage of a commercial pipeline whose exact location, at least in shallow water, had to be public information.

Posted by: nazcalito | Feb 8 2023 17:42 utc | 84

Peacenik Wagenknecht is now the 4th most respected German politician.

Posted by: Exile | Feb 8 2023 17:42 utc | 85

Thanks b for another good piece of research and writing. I think you are a better reporter than Hersh.
What I don't understand is why the US government won't admit that it blew up the pipelines. By not taking responsibility it becomes a cowardly act. I doubt it is because the US is ashamed of what it did.
Please Russia hurry and complete the conquest of Ukraine and then turn your attention to the rest of Europe. You are the only hope we have of returning sanity to the west.

Posted by: Chas | Feb 8 2023 17:43 utc | 86

Posted by: james | Feb 8 2023 16:58 utc | 66

that's fair... so what are your conclusions, or are you waiting for future facts to appear?? thanks..

My overriding impression is that it was the transnational web of British and British-connected veteran spooks led by Chris Donnelly of Integrity Initiative infamy, which I have exposed for The Grayzone in recent months. I have no smoking gun but a mountain of incriminating jigsaw pieces large and small, some highly revealing others oblique. If my hopes are dashed and more material doesn't become available, I'll go public.

Consider though the profusion of British vessels in the Black, Mediterranean and North Seas in the aftermath of this. Was a counterattack expected, or one of several resultant scenarios prepared for? No need for anyone bar a tight circle of about five people max to know what precisely was coming, let alone anything at all was coming. Just routine maneuvers because of mutterings of trouble.

We shall see.

Posted by: Kit Klarenberg | Feb 8 2023 17:45 utc | 87

@Kit Klarenberg

you bring up one argument: it might have been the wrong special unit, according to your knowledge, to carry out such an operation.

The other points don´t qualify as hard counter-evidence.

It´s all circumstantial, don´t you think.

Besides in the current hysterical climate US would get away with almost anything.

So it´s basically just mediocre cosmetics they have to apply. We knew all along it was them.
And it changed nothing.

(I am writing this from Berlin. So I remember well that the Scholz government was dragging its feet to not tell anyone outside the absolute inner circle even though it concerned the entire population. Why?)

And if we go through the history of war crimes they usually have been full of faulty planning and poorly covered up.

The fact that Hersh doesn´t create an entirely new narrative thread makes it even more likely.

For the very reason that it is more or less known. No one will care. It is preconceived. BECAUSE we have seen it on TV. Bring us something new. The procedure described by Hersh for the public "audience" is by today´s standard generic.

So the more pressing question we might wanna ask:

Why on earth is this story not going to break any ground unlike obvious hoaxes such as the entire Russiagate idiocy or now MH-17 again.

THAT was taken seriously by millions of people for years despite obvious flaws.

As already mentioned here: remember Curveball. The dumbest story of all. And Powell went on air with it.

Actually the mixture of details and lacking substance makes it more likely to be true. Since that´s how reality works in this business.

Only if you face a complete fakery everything looks equally perfect on a superficial level.

Had Hersh e.g. made up some names for personnel involved, made up some cool and gimmicky details may be it would look more glamorous and compelling. (take e.g. the various KGB conspiracies or the Brits in WWII. The better it looked the bigger the lie).

But reality is boring, murky and grey. It has more to do with paper trails and administrative levels than sensational action and mind-boggling conspiracies.

p.s. the intell community is never as smart as motion pictures want us believe.
The one has absolutely nothing in common with the other.

(sry for the length of the comment)

Posted by: AG | Feb 8 2023 17:49 utc | 88

It seems to me that the story remains the one that Hersh is selling, rather than feverish conjecture as to his motives for doing so.

The story is damaging. It is hard to see how it could be worse, from a Biden government point of view. It is hard to see what the story could be meant to obscure.

It is very simple. The US and its "allies" have carried out a crime of enormous proportions. The pipelines alone cost billions of dollars and represent a significant investment. The disruption to Germany's fuel supply is even more serious-it matters very little that Nordstream 2 was not being used, it was clearly felt in Washington that its commission was only a matter of time. Already we have seen measurable declines in German living standards, a direct consequence of fuel supply disruption.
There is no doubt at all how this will be viewed in the rest of the world- still being appealed to by the US to implement sanctions against Russia, on the grounds that international law has been breached.
It is very likely that there will be an appeal to the Security Council, which will be vetoed by the Us and poodles of course. And then the International Court will be appealed to. And the net result will be another dramatic disclosure of the corruption that the US has wrought in all international organisations.
Then there is the fact that there are going to be demands in Norway for example for a thorough enquiry into the allegations made by Hersh which strike me as being just as obviously true as his revelations of My Lai were.
As someone has suggested is this not clear evidence that the US is a state sponsor of terrorism? And is that not consequential at a time when the US is making precisely the same charge-without any real evidence- against Iran, Russia and other 'enemies'?
It is very likely that factions within the state use people like Hersh to forward their agendas. And that Hersh is well aware of this. But so what? If the story he tells is true then there will be consequences. Not least because it cannot be hushed up. The media can suppress it but only in the Empire-elsewhere it will spread like wildfire and attempts to deny it will simply add to the scandal.

Biden has been known for a long time to be a man inclined to criminality. He has become so used to burnishing his "Boss" image that he has come to boast openly of it. His boasts of having bullied Ukraine into ending its enquiry into corruption are notorious. And undeniable. His boast that Nordstream would never be commissioned was equally clear.
He has been caught red-handed. Watergate was nothing by comparison. With the matter of Hunter Biden also, finally, coming to the fore the 'big guy', 'Mr Tenpercent', already has enough enemies, in his own party, determined to keep him off the ticket in the election next year, to make him vulnerable.

The wheels are coming off the imperial juggernaut. It is being revealed everywhere as vulnerable, ineffective, drowning in a sea of lies- the recent Russiagate story just adds to the welter of immorality in which Washington is marinated.

But the real problems are going to arise beyond the US and in Europe in particular. Like Karlofi's my eyes are on France where the government is very vulnerable and the opposition is not only strong but a little more courageous than it is elsewhere. As to Germany, there are others here who understand it much better than I but it would be surprising if this story was not widely interpreted as being an attack on the country and its working class.
And then there are the Swedish and Finnish applications to join the ranks of the criminal gang? Is there no opposition at home to this?

Posted by: bevin | Feb 8 2023 17:54 utc | 89

It's a bullshit story. It shows Norway was deeply involved in this plans execution. What I know of Norway I don't see Norway involving itself in such an action against It's neighbor(permanent imo for emphasis) and an ally Germany. No actions taken by Norway in recent past shows them to getting involved in ... like this. Now if it was Poland or UK ok but the story that includes Norway in such a huge way is not credible.

Posted by: A.z | Feb 8 2023 17:56 utc | 90

@ Posted by: pretzelattack | Feb 8 2023 17:24 utc | 77

Yes plausible because that motive made OBL the perfect patsy, just like Oswald was the perfect patsy. OBL was so confident in his team's ability to execute that he scheduled dialysis treatment that day, no doubt also to have a rock solid alibi. He was also 100% confident in his team's jumbo jet flying skills and certain that NORAD would not reschedule their drills that day.

You don't get it, when people start to look too closely behind the curtain of lies, the CIA leaks something to Hersh who diverts them to look behind a different curtain of lies. I respect Hersh, and so does the CIA, because he is very good at what he does.

Posted by: Opport Knocks | Feb 8 2023 17:58 utc | 91

Seymour Hersh also broke, among others, the controlled & carefully managed, omission filled, Abu Ghraib torture story ... akin to My Lai, essentially resulting in no consequences for the key enablers/players & truly responsible for the policies & shepherding into mainstream acceptance of multiple ongoing War Crimes, which has since become perfectly acceptable.

Black sites across the EU as well as SCI US Navy CVA brigs, expansive outsourced torture to then 'allied' Syria/Egypt & others ? Wholly illegal torture to death in contravention of the UCMJ, Treaties, Conventions & Statute Laws ? Forced 'disappearances', including disposal of the corpses, extra-ordinary rendition & remote unlawful routine assassinations & massed killings globally, the legal fiction of non-protected 'Illegal Combatants', indefinite unlawful detention/torture especially on foreign non juristicion territories (Guantanamo), nullification of Habeas Corpus re matters of 'National Security', the acceptance of the legal fiction of Imperium in the person of the President ...

Long term previous off-book covert black ops & practices brought into the regular uniformed military & agencies in order to have it all accepted as normative. Hell you can even enjoy fictionalized versions on your TV screen in the comfort of your own lounge-room.

Torture at Abu Ghraib Seymour M. Hersh - The New Yorker April 30 2004

Same as it ever was ...

Posted by: Outraged | Feb 8 2023 17:58 utc | 92

Yes, agree this story seems to be an almost total whitewashing, ie deliberately gauge but fully admitting what everyone already knew - not just suspected - but knew.

Question is, why now. If this came from sources in the know, seems as if as planned leak - so then we have to ask what is the motive in admitting it now? Warning to the Russians and RoW? As mea cupla to get it out of the way to increase tempo and seriousness back door negotiations to end the conflict, or a way to push Biden out (like suddenly finding he has secrets docs stashed at his house).

Posted by: Drsmith | Feb 8 2023 18:00 utc | 93

No legal opinion needed.

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 8 2023 17:29 utc | 79

There will be a legal opinion, just as there was a legal opinion for "enhanced" interrogation and a legal opinion for killing US citizens abroad by drone.

It will be bullshit as were the above legal opinions. The weakness of the opinion is already noted in the Hersh article, as it will be relying on the so-called "indirect references" by Biden and Nuland to the operation.

It is now up to Congress whether it wants to take this poisoned chalice, but Congress likes to protect its prerogatives and the covert operations prerogative is a big prerogative.

Note the side reference in the article to that King that America rid itself of:

"He was essentially telling the Senators that he, as head of the CIA, understood that he had been working for the Crown, and not the Constitution."

Posted by: M Le Docteur Ralph | Feb 8 2023 18:06 utc | 94

We have a denial, notwithstanding the current WH occupant having said, "we can do it?

White House denies US Navy's involvement in blowing up Nord Stream 2

WASHINGTON, February 8. /TASS/. The White House on Wednesday categorically rejected information that US Navy divers, under the cover of the Baltops exercise, had planted explosive devices beneath Russia’s Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline last June.

"This is utterly false and complete fiction," White House National Security Council Spokesperson Adrienne Watson told TASS in reply to a request to comment on the above-mentioned version, which had been previously voiced by an unnamed source to US investigative journalist Seymour Hersh.[.]

No comment. That's all folks.

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 8 2023 18:08 utc | 95

The publication of the Hersh report points towards one US political faction wishing to embarass another US political faction.

Posted by: Passerby | Feb 8 2023 18:10 utc | 96

Wappius Afflatus Maximus @53

So the entire affair of possible chemical weaponry used in some drones can be pushed under the rug by another video which showed grenade shrapnel. So now we are down to which video is conclusive? Neither of them.

Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 8 2023 18:15 utc | 97

The publication of the Hersh report points towards one US political faction wishing to embarass another US political faction.

Posted by: Passerby | Feb 8 2023 18:10 utc | 94

Yes, seeing signs of disunity in the West, not everybody loves Ukraine any more.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 8 2023 18:16 utc | 98

interesting, not so surprising. but in the article are some mistakes about known facts. for example the ownership of Gazprom. It is true that RF owns 50% plus 1 share, but the rest this guy writes is propaganda. beside that it is the widest traded share in general public of Russia. make a guess who is second biggest owner of this company with a share of a third? it is not some russian oligarchs instead it is american. it is the Bank of New York. wich make clear why this company is not sanctioned. also NS II could not transport just 50 % of NG. Booth lines together have a capacity of 135% of German needs. This whole project changed actually the history of Germany. Because it would have made the country practically in physical terms to a energy exporter for their neighbors. BTW the whole topic is a non issue for german MSM.

Posted by: rico rose | Feb 8 2023 18:20 utc | 99

Norwegian @67

Takk skal de har fra en Vestlander.

Posted by: aristodemos | Feb 8 2023 18:20 utc | 100

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