Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 15, 2023

After Ten Days Of Panicky Hype The Weather Balloon Nonsense Is Finally Buried

Since February 4 I have dismissed the 'Chinese weather balloon' panic:

The paranoid style applies to internal U.S. politics as well as to foreign policies against this or that favorite enemy of that time.

It makes the story below, which otherwise is just laughable, somewhat dangerous.

Furor Over Chinese Spy Balloon Leads to a Diplomatic Crisis
The Pentagon called the object, which has flown from Montana to Kansas, an “intelligence gathering” balloon. Beijing said it was used mainly for weather research and had strayed off course.

As some 80+% of all Pentagon intelligence comes from open sources the 'intelligence gathering' statement may well include a weather research system. Weather research and weather prediction are important for all kinds of military operations. But they are also important for many civil operations from agriculture, food availability prediction to drainage planning in cities.

I pointed out that this was by far not the first Chinese weather balloon that drifted in unexpected directions. That is normal. The winds at the level where such balloons fly are very strong. There is no real way to control their flight path.

It soon became obvious that the balloon which was drifting over Alaska only crossed into the lower United States because a strong low pressure area over west Canada pushed it southward. Still, the media kept hyping the issue until the air force took the balloon down. Things got even worse when the air force in the aftermath started to shot down harmless small research balloons.

Only now is the whole hype dying down helped by sudden explanations of the obvious.

U.S. tracked China spy balloon from launch on Hainan Island along unusual path - Washington Post

By the time a Chinese spy balloon crossed into American airspace late last month, U.S. military and intelligence agencies had been tracking it for nearly a week, watching as it lifted off from its home base on Hainan Island near China’s south coast.
The balloon floated over Alaska’s Aleutian Islands thousands of miles away from Guam, then drifted over Canada, where it encountered strong winds that appear to have pushed the balloon south into the continental United States, the officials said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to describe sensitive intelligence. A U.S. fighter jet shot the balloon down off the coast of South Carolina on Feb. 4, a week after it crossed over Alaska.

Yes, that is exactly, as I pointed out, what the low pressure area over west Canada did.

Meanwhile, the White House on Tuesday said that three other objects shot down over North America in the last week may have posed no national security threat, striking perhaps the clearest distinction yet between those flying anomalies and the suspected spy balloon. John Kirby, the National Security Council’s coordinator for strategic communications, told reporters that the U.S. intelligence community “will not dismiss as a possibility” that the three craft instead belonged to a commercial organization or research entity and were therefore “benign.”

Oh well, you don't say so ...

The Chinese had explained that their big weather balloon drifted towards North America only after unexpected strong 'westerlies' had pushed it off the expected course. The U.S. is now admitted that they were right.

Around Jan. 24, when the balloon would have been roughly about 1,000 miles south of Japan, model simulations show it began to gain speed and rapidly veer north. This would have been in response to a strong cold front that had unleashed exceptionally frigid air over northern China, the Korean Peninsula and Japan.

Ordinarily, atmospheric steering motions would have kept the balloon on much more of a west to east course, historical weather data shows. However, the intense cold front forced the jet stream and high altitude steering currents to dip south and may have scooped the balloon northward.

Two cold fronts, one over north China and one over west Canada determined the course of the big balloon.

This also dismisses the laughable Pentagon claims that the balloon had propellers and a rudder and was thereby steerable. There is nothing that solar driven propellers can do when a huge object like a 200 feet high ballon is drifting in 200 mph jetstream winds. The whole idea was obviously bonkers. The only way to somewhat steer a balloon is by raising or lowering its altitude until one finds an air current that blows it in the wished for direction. While this will work at an altitude of a few hundred feet there is no real chance to do that in the upper atmosphere.

The three smaller weather or research balloons were only found drifting along after the air force turned down the filters of its radars. But those filters are there for good reasons. A lot of clutter, like a flock of birds, would otherwise come up as alarm.

The U.S. National Weather Service says that it alone launches 75,000 balloons per year. It would be a ridiculous waste to send up fighter planes whenever such a balloon goes up.

The larger Chinese weather balloon was also likely a legit one. Such bigger balloons are build to cross oceans and to measure the upper atmospheric conditions over long distances. That it was blown off course, twice, by unusual weather is a reasonable explanation.

Worse than the Pentagon's lies and panic inducing claims over these issues are the writers and 'journalists' who fall for such hype.

That the U.S. used this 'accidental conflict' with China to call off the planned Blinken visit to Beijing only shows that it its efforts to engage China are not serious.

Posted by b on February 15, 2023 at 12:05 UTC | Permalink

next page »

OT - Brit dies in Ukraine but not sure if this is the latest one

Just a couple of odd things, his wife's English language

His wife, Mhey Shenkin, paid tribute to him as a “hero”. "You’re a hero. You serve well in Ukraine country. Rest in peace, Jonathan Jeffrey "Jony" Shenkin,” she wrote.

And this

Born in Glasgow, Mr Shenkin lived in London and Malta and later joined the Israeli army. He also ran his own security business, working in countries including Oman, Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan. He was believed to have been based in the Philippines for some time.

Sounds more of a mercenary than a medic.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 15 2023 12:11 utc | 1

"That the U.S. used this 'accidental conflict' with China to call off the planned Blinken visit to Beijing only shows that it its efforts to engage China are not serious."

The only thing the cabal that is in charge of the district of corruption takes serious is their grasp on power.

Everything else is nothing. I live in a country that nowhere near resembles anything that our founders intended.

Posted by: T.D. | Feb 15 2023 12:17 utc | 2

> That the U.S. used this 'accidental conflict' with China to call off the planned Blinken visit to Beijing only shows that it its efforts to engage China are not serious.

Berkshire Hathaway is engaging.

Buffett’s Quick $3.7 Billion Sale of TSMC Stock Spooks Investors

. Berkshire lowered its holding of TSMC ADRs by 86% last quarter
. Chipmaker’s stock slides as much as 4% in Taipei on the filing

Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2023 12:20 utc | 3

Well, it certainly served its purpose.

As the majority of the American population will now believe that there is a "threat" - at least a "reality" - of Chinese espionage-interference. And the msm will NOT correct what they claimed in any way or shape.

So these accusations against the "enemy-in-progress" China will keep around (just have a look what the paid propaganda and idiots on Twitter say).

For the more "moderate" warmongers - such as Tucker Carlson - to be picked up for another round. As this war is already planned for 2025. At least if the lunatics in charge get their way.

Posted by: Karl1906 | Feb 15 2023 12:21 utc | 4

Media ...
At the same time you have the "ICIJ" (International Consortium of Investigation Journalist) releasing an 'investigation' on "manufacturing fake news that endanger journalism".

No Assange, no russiangate, no investigation on manufacturing consent for war but .... the much famed "St Petersbourg troll farm" barely related to a finn journalist being bullied by some random.

Emmanuel Todd nailed it : That "Journalism" is nowaday one of the 'ism' ideologies: Fascism, Racism, Communism, Totalitarianism and now ... Journalism - that kind of "Journalism"

Posted by: W | Feb 15 2023 12:33 utc | 5

Jonathan Jeffrey Shenkin from Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom. He died aged 45, in Ukraine in December. It seems the news still hasn't broken about him, so we'll do a bit more in depth. Jonathan was a very sporadic person, he seemed to have had two children and eventually got bored of family life and joined Israel Defence Forces. After his time being converted, he left the colony of Israel to go to the Philippines. He created a company called Samson Operations, this allowed him to privately train people, since in his own birth place he can't own a firearm. A lot of people who had taken his course branded it a waste of time, they called him out for his stupidity brandishing him an Israeli dog. His own brother, believed Jonathan, however, others stated in 2013, that Jonathan was not to be taken at face value. When the SMO started, I presume he seen money and an opportunity to do what he thought was good. We still don't know exactly where he died or who he was with, but his operation is over.
From trackamerc telegram

Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 15 2023 12:37 utc | 6

Will Bydin be carried aloft or shot down by friendly fire during the Ballongate crisis of 2023?

The world waits in anticipation…..

Posted by: drsmith | Feb 15 2023 12:42 utc | 7

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Feb 15 2023 12:11 utc | 1

Yea I think they are calling all these dying mercs "medics". Roughly last month we had one "medic" from Saskatchewan pass on in Ukraine and his Bio/Remembrance said pretty much the same thing. ( but his posted picture told a different story.)

Posted by: heavymetal101 | Feb 15 2023 12:44 utc | 8

Maybe NORAD has suddenly gone woke. That is they woke up from their slumber at their desktops in a panic and saw a bunch of objects floating around in their airspace.

Balloons at a circus are normal. Bring on the clowns for the next show.

Posted by: circumspect | Feb 15 2023 12:48 utc | 9

NBC news is running a story about a US medic that was killed by a guided missle, at this point it's obvious the US will be joining this war

Posted by: OohCanada | Feb 15 2023 12:52 utc | 10

Fine line between 'medic' and 'organ snatcher' seen vid yesterday of a US medic's car gitin tapped.....targeted? does hope Russia took names to settle debts.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 15 2023 12:53 utc | 11

Maybe NORAD has suddenly gone woke.
Posted by: circumspect | Feb 15 2023 12:48 utc | 9


Recall that flights across the USA were grounded on January 11th due to insufficient maintenance of the air traffic control network.

The US Transportation Dept. fails again.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2023 12:54 utc | 12

Meanwhile, the MSM has been virtually Bakhmut free, as in no news of the ongoing Ukrainian collapse there. Nice diversion.

Posted by: Mike R | Feb 15 2023 13:04 utc | 13

I still question whether the tail was wagging the dog. The military was tracking the 1st balloon as usual, taking no action because there was no reason to. Then the balloon is sighted, the news reports it, the public gets upset and politicians try to get out in front with ridiculous posturing. The military is forced to shoot it down, then finds itself shooting down God-knows-what because radar has been recalibrated

Posted by: Walter | Feb 15 2023 13:17 utc | 14

Public reaction drove this fiasco, the government bent over backward to appease it - what with missiles, F-22s, airport closures - and now the very same public rather than feel embarrassed at itself is talking up conspiracy theories that the government invented it all to distract from NS sabotage. Folks, they're not that smart!

Posted by: Walter | Feb 15 2023 13:22 utc | 15

pretty lame that B. doesn’t consider the most obvious conspiratorial angle: we’ve had a repeat of the great airship flap of 1896-97. Back in ‘97 people were seeing balloon, rudder and prop devices aloft from California to Springfield Missouri.

The airships are back.

Posted by: GoFast | Feb 15 2023 13:23 utc | 16

The story here is not that wise. perspicacious, thoughtful, reflective, broad-minded sages such as our saloonkeeper here could figure out that it was a weather balloon. The story is that anyone fell for the nonsense. And that the gatekeepers were universally prepared to flog the nonsense. That the originators of the nonsense were certain the gatekeepers would play along and that being caught was unlikely and without consequence. Idiots all the way down.

Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 15 2023 13:24 utc | 17

I hope the balloon killers are finished with this ridiculousness - I think upper elevation balloons need to be better understood.
Here is a link, I think I posted already a few days ago, but might be helpful to understand upper elevation wind flows and wind flows in general - they are in flux, but around the poles, especially at upper elevations, it is most interesting the windflows - especially around the poles - I suspect they are electromagnetically driven in a way....
(Note: One can click on the "Earth" button on the bottom left and there is much information there.)
Also did you know one can purchase a big balloon for just $120? - I won't post the link, but here is the info from a widely used online vendor:
Nballoon 28 ft / 336 inch 1000g Giant Professional Weather Balloon For Meteorological Investigation Aerial Video Holiday Party Decoration Entertainment Toys Huge Balloons, Natural
Brand: Nballoon

I have a feeling those things are selling off the shelfs....
Crazy balloon killers - I can't abide them being I love balloons.

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 15 2023 13:24 utc | 18

Manufactured distraction. NS1&2 drop, Pfizer Drop, East Palestine Drop, Bahkmut Drop.
The Grand Wurlitzer is spinning out of control like a B-movie robot gone haywire.
Brace for Impcact!

Posted by: Chevrus | Feb 15 2023 13:29 utc | 19

The so-called cancellation of Blinkin's purported trip to China is poppycock. The US announced a trip to China. China never agreed or reciprocated. As I understand it, China didn't see any point in having the guy who has all the diplomatic finesse of a flat worm come to their country. I think this whole kerfuffle was all to avoid having China tell the US not to come.

Posted by: Jeff Harrison | Feb 15 2023 13:32 utc | 20

Let's cut to the chase, anybody even discussing the 'balloon scam' is a limited-hangout,
Weather Balloons is a +500 year old technology to demonize this scam is simple proof that they intend to downsize all the masses to single digit IQ's. To play along with 'their' scam is only proof that the messenger is a limited-hangout;
This week weather balloons next week they'll be saying women on their periods are witches, ... this is how it always progresses.

Posted by: somemoar | Feb 15 2023 13:43 utc | 21

Since February 4 I have dismissed the 'Chinese weather balloon' panic

Much ado about nothing? Maybe. Hysteria like this is often used to deflect attention from other events.

The freight train that derailed in Ohio on February 3 is owned by Norfolk Southern Railway whose parent company is Norfolk Southern whose major shareholders consist of Vanguard, JP Morgan, BlackRock and SSgA amongst others.

The balloon was spotted before then but nice way to deflect attention from the train derailment.

Posted by: Down South | Feb 15 2023 13:45 utc | 22

Posted by: Jeff Harrison | Feb 15 2023 13:32 utc | 19

I think it was an entirely invented distraction from all the things "Biden" does not want in the news right now, and meant zero otherwise.

"What good are enemies if you can't blame stuff on them?"

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 15 2023 13:45 utc | 23

aim 9x got several kills before it logged a miss over lake huron.....

both f-15 and f-22 are equipped with a 20mm vulcan gatling gun...... and both had 'ceiling' to do a gun run on the massive balloon over the atlantic....

it is possible they forgot to program the 'brain' that takes the fighter pilot around the sky to compute a track to shot the gun?

but aim 9x is a new sidewinder, integrating the control package from amraam to give a short range radar controlled weapon, and it worked on the balloon.....!

which suggest cancelling orders for the f-35, stealth may be even more passe than the serbs showed!

Posted by: paddy | Feb 15 2023 13:54 utc | 24


Mr Shenkin, who was 45 years old, was born and raised in Glasgow, before living in London and Malta and enlisting in the Israeli army.

After founding his own security business, he underwent two tours of Iraq, worked for the United Nations in Afghanistan, as a military medic in Oman, and in security in Angola and Somalia.

Mr Shenkin reportedly held contracts with America’s Department of Defence, NATO and the European Union Police Mission in Afghanistan...................“He trained the Special Forces in both the Philippines and South Korea, marines in Kabul, Drug Enforcement Agencies, The Philippine Bureau of Investigation, the military and the police in multiple countries.”

Mr Shenkin held a “lifelong passion” for Israel and supported democratic values, he added.

Did they say he was a "medic" implying he was a "priest" ? Medics are combatants..........

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Feb 15 2023 13:55 utc | 25

I got lost at "democratic values" and suppose he did looking for them in Israel.............these "values" are what make life so unpleasant in most Western countries and tend to be regarded as an "imposition" from minority factions seeking to enslave the majority

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Feb 15 2023 13:58 utc | 26

As in the stealing of technology, 'intelligence gathering' is a good thing because it promotes international equality which disallows any country to become dominant, and instead encourages pacivity and a disinclination for military aggression.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 15 2023 14:02 utc | 27

"Nonsense"? I disagree. Successful propaganda is not nonsense, no matter how absurd it may appear on the surface.

At core, the nation was distracted with all this balloon stuff and attention diverted from the ruling class using hordes of third-world refugees to ignite a population explosion. What you see on the border itself is just the tip of the iceberg: illegals who come legally and overstay are likely much greater in number, and because internal enforcement has stopped, they are here permanently. And all these legal programs... it is well within the realm of possibility that the population of the Untied States could be doubled to 700 million in just 20 years. And with the elites choking off production increases, that's going to crush the working class population.

But don't think about that. Look at the pretty balloons.

Posted by: TG | Feb 15 2023 14:23 utc | 28

@ Jeff Harrison 19

On holiday in Brittany as a child we came across a M. Berthou who was collecting sand worms by the sea. He was very excited at the prospect of studying the elongating biology of the worm.

A better comparison for Western politicians might be a cigarette which burns for a short time, exudes its cancerous poison, and annoys everyone.

Posted by: Giyane | Feb 15 2023 14:30 utc | 29

The whole thing is a farce and the Biden administration is ridiculous.

Good times all around

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Feb 15 2023 14:31 utc | 30

It did sound like a load of hot air, to be honest.

Posted by: Ivan | Feb 15 2023 14:34 utc | 31

The belief that the balloon stories are a deliberate distraction is shared by Zakharova:

MOSCOW, February 15. /TASS/. The hoopla around the recent unidentified flying objects (UFOs) in the United States can be linked to the upcoming elections in America, given the impossibility of returning to the issue of Russia, because ‘it has been entirely exhausted’, Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said, speaking to Sputnik radio on Wednesday.

"You know that elections are on the horizon in the US. No wonder there will be Pokemons, there will be UFOs, because it seems to me that it is simply impossible to continue promoting the topic of Russia, because they (the US - TASS) have exhausted it completely and reduced it to absurdity, tiring everyone with the topic of Russia within their information and political field. So, I just do not see any other way how they can continue promoting this topic for many years. However, they do need to surprise the public somehow," she said.

Zakharova also added that a return of the Biden administration to the Russian topic would only raise more questions "because it is their policy on Russia that has been implemented on a disastrous scale and with consequences for all of humanity."

Posted by: David Levin | Feb 15 2023 14:34 utc | 32

@T.D. | Feb 15 2023 12:17 utc | 2

The founders intended the US to be an oligarchy and remain so. They got what they wanted. The country you live in is the inevitable consequence, meaning that the country in which you live, run by wealthy,
untrustworthy, bullshitting, exploiting, incompetent grifters and their sycophants, is exactly what your founders created, whether or not this was entirely intentional.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 15 2023 14:40 utc | 33

Just like when this started. The stupid fucks don't even know what it was they claim they shot down. Shit hole countries, US & Can; not worthy of the lives lost to genocide

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Feb 15 2023 14:44 utc | 34

@ TG | Feb 15 2023 14:23 utc | 27
that's going to crush the working class population.

The working class won't do stoop labor harvesting and other menial tasks while emigrants do. . . but yes not millions of them.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 15 2023 14:46 utc | 35

@circumspect | Feb 15 2023 12:48 utc | 9

But the clowns and contortionists have been here the whole time. Did you not hear the dreadful din of their braying horns, thumping drums and mighty propaganda organs? :-)

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 15 2023 14:47 utc | 36

Every week seems to create yet another headline showing how childish and untrustworthy the US is. Balloons are just the latest. Why would any nation respect the word or intent of the US when it could be changed - literally - by a gust of wind?

At the time, it must have been a hard pill to swallow when Putin reached out to Erdogan - after he downed a Russian fighter. Yet, Putin's cold wisdom triggered big results politically and economically that NATO and the US confront today.

Both Xi and Putin follow their own national purposes with a mature sense of years to come, rather than being the servants of ignorant legislative mobs.

Posted by: Eighthman | Feb 15 2023 14:51 utc | 37

Arent balloons a distraction for children? Asking for an adult

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Feb 15 2023 14:59 utc | 38

@TG | Feb 15 2023 14:23 utc | 27

In the unlikely event that the US does not launch a thermonuclear holocaust that will make humans extinct, the US has largely exhausted and poisoned it's aquifers, salinated it's land, lost over 80% of the topsoil it had in 1900, exhausted it's fertilizer supply,, and is burning through much of what resources remain to produce ethanol in a scam food to fuel process which takes mpre energy than it produces, and already imports over 15% of it's food supply. Even without climate change, which has undoubtedly happened, the fall in resources will limit agriculture, and the collapse of the US dollar will prevent importation, and even the swill sold as good in the USA will no longer be affordable except to the wealthiest. At which point the population will collapse.

So please don't worry about the US population doubling because of a few poor emigrants fleeing countries the US has destabilized, impoverished and turned into toxic, war ravaged quagmires. They will die in large numbers, just like everyone else.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 15 2023 15:01 utc | 39

I am just playing Devil’s Advocate . Maybe the Chinese could predict that a polar cortex would occur and thus launched the balloon with spy equipment , hoping that it was taken off course. Or every such Chinese balloon has spy - equipment on the off chance that such WILL go of course so that they can get information , a windfall …pun intended.

Before trolls get on my back ,I already know that the US has sent spy balloons over China and the Soviet Sphere in the Cold War and even now. I couldn’t care less if China is spying on the US and I actually hope they did and still do. We all - in the West and Soviet Sphere- had the best living - conditions and more peace back then in the Cold War.

Posted by: Brother Ma | Feb 15 2023 15:03 utc | 40


The other similarity between a Western politician and a cigarette is tgatbthe are all the same, having been manufactured or cloned to the same calculated standard for conformity and known poison to human and maximum profit. After you smoke one your mind is dissatisfied with the nicotine and begs you to smoke another. Very difficult to wean from the addictive narrative and very expensive for your pocket.
Please give them up soon.

Posted by: Giyane | Feb 15 2023 15:04 utc | 41

Remember when Musk sent a Tesla into space? Good times.

The USA reminds me of Wile E Coyote at the long moment between when he steps off the cliff, and before he enters freefall - that "oops I did it again' moment.

With the mix of toxic train derailments, the Hersh confirmations, and an Administration that has failed on every front, if there was any honor left in the world, the Biden regime should resign en masse.

Won't happen of course. The world burns while the US fiddles with its image in the wicked step mothers mirror.

Posted by: gottlieb | Feb 15 2023 15:04 utc | 42

@Paul Greenwood | Feb 15 2023 13:58 utc | 25

As nobody else has any power to influence, let alone control in an oligarchy, the only minority controlling things are the wealthy and powerful.

But they do like to divide up the peons into little factions all opposed It prevents people from wondering exactly why they should be supporting a massively oppressive, inherently inequitable and utterly unsustainable system that benefits nobody but the oligarchy.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 15 2023 15:07 utc | 43

@paddy | Feb 15 2023 13:54 utc | 24

high altitude balloons hold large volumes of lift gas at very low pressure. This means that even if you shoot the envelope full of holes it will not fall from the sky, but will slowly descend as lift gas diffuses out of the envelope and air diffuses onto it, principally from Brownian motion. This does not satisfy fighter jocks or their masters, who want to see their 5argets go down in flames. So they expend multimillion dollar missiles to destroy weather balloons, making their idiocy unmistakable to even the meanest intelligence.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 15 2023 15:15 utc | 44

Mistake-jet F-35 news:
The Gun On the Air Force's F-35 Has 'Unacceptable' Accuracy, Pentagon Testing Office Says

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 15 2023 15:16 utc | 45

@Down South | Feb 15 2023 13:45 utc | 22

Never mind that the train, running on worn out track where derailments are common was carrying phosgene, hydrogen chloride, vinyl chloride, ethylene glycol, monobutyl ether and isobutylene through an urban environment. Or that the mind-blowingly idiotic "authorities" decided to set it all on fire so they didn't need to waste money cleaning it up.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 15 2023 15:23 utc | 46

@Don Bacon | Feb 15 2023 15:16 utc | 45
@paddy | Feb 15 2023 13:54 utc | 24
@Hermit | Feb 15 2023 15:15 utc | 44

Also a huge problem is that the stall speed of the fight, and the effectively zero air speed of the balloon makes the closure rate very challenging. By the time an aircraft like a US fighter gets close enough to hit the balloon, it may well be too close to avoid flying 9nto it. Even missiles have a problem, because there is very little mass to trigger proximity fuses and very little solid to trigger impact fuses.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 15 2023 15:28 utc | 47


Read gao 23-106375 for the state of us tactical jets as done by mistake jet f-35

and why sending old jets to z-comedian is more circus

Posted by: paddy | Feb 15 2023 15:29 utc | 48

Mistake-jet F-35 news:
The Gun On the Air Force's F-35 Has 'Unacceptable' Accuracy, Pentagon Testing Office Says

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 15 2023 15:16 utc | 45

That means it is not accurate, aims poorly, right?

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 15 2023 15:31 utc | 49

@Jeff Harrison | Feb 15 2023 13:32 utc | 20

That is a serious insult to all Platyhelminthes. You should anticipate a declaration of war, or at least a strong diplomatic note.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 15 2023 15:34 utc | 50

There was an airship panic pre WW1 also (some weird psychological anticipation of actual warfare on the near horizon maybe?)–1913

Posted by: dermotmoconnor | Feb 15 2023 15:46 utc | 51

@YetAnotherAnon | Feb 15 2023 12:11 utc | 1
@Melaleuca | Feb 15 2023 12:37 utc | 6

A belligerent bastard named Shenkin
Abandoned all of his kith and kin
Lost half his dick to the Jews
And his life to the Rus
His penchant for murder and mayhem had done him in.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 15 2023 15:56 utc | 52

Biden lives in a glass house and should not throw stones at the windows. Anyone, please tell him he asked for this:

US High-Altitude Balloons Repeatedly Flew Over China, Chinese Foreign Ministry Says


The United States must stop misleading the international community and accept the fact that US high-altitude balloons have violated China's airspace on multiple occasions since last year, including over Xinjiang and Tibet, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said on Wednesday.[.]

"We have already pointed out that since last year, more specifically since last May, the US has released multiple high-altitude balloons from its territory, which continue to circle the globe. They have made at least 10 unauthorized entries into Chinese airspace, including above Xinjiang and Tibet," Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Wang Wenbin told a briefing[.] (original emphasis)


US Spy Balloon Program Goes Back 70 Years, Included Flights Over China, Documents Reveal

Posted by: Likklemore | Feb 15 2023 16:02 utc | 53

I believe the issue here, outside of any domestic USA political ones (Montana?), is the hegemonic creature, US Northern Command, founded in 2002. There is NORAD, a cooperative agency between Canada and the USA, then there is this awkward virtual cenotaph to US supremacy that is perhaps due to be retired.

Until then - bureaucracy and who’s on first type interchange.

Trudeau’s at CARICOM today.

And thanks to a report on Sputnik News, I learned about APSS

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Feb 15 2023 16:15 utc | 54

YetAnotherAnon @1

'Medic' is one of the standard cover stories mercenaries are told to give out. The others are 'cook' and 'driver'. The Telegram channel TrackANaziMerc follows their social media channels revealing a greater interest in killing rather than curing.

Posted by: Arfur Mo | Feb 15 2023 16:17 utc | 55

#52 Hermit - the was a hell of a is another..
There was hermit
thought his it was the only it
but really - it was hers.
was it not?
ps - I still haven't read the #10 Federalist paper, but I will - do you doubt that.
Plus - who is to know the mind of a man came before, and Madison had a perty wife.

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 15 2023 16:24 utc | 56

"I hope the balloon killers are finished with this ridiculousness - I think upper elevation balloons need to be better understood."

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 15 2023 13:24 utc | 18

On it, BK - setting up a Facebook support group right now.

Posted by: drsmith | Feb 15 2023 16:25 utc | 57

Reading "Blowing Holes in Seymour Hersh’s Pipe Dream," by Oliver Alexander, here, I accept the fact that Biden did indicate that he was going to do it, and after the fact the administration is thrilled that it happened, also it completely fits into US hegemonic philosophy, so don't bore me with the details. I don't want to get "wrapped around the axle" dealing with something that is obvious. Circumstantial evidence is good enough for me, the circumstances are strong enough to make the case. It's guilty as charged.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 15 2023 16:29 utc | 58

I support that, but I don't do facebook....#57 "drsmith"...
but maybe links from that place can be posted here?
time will tell...
I honestly think there is much energy around the poles - almost free in a way....

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 15 2023 16:30 utc | 59

Balloons without the proper warnings are more than dangerous to children. They are illegal! Has there been a class action lawsuit against Chinese balloon makers yet?

Posted by: 44Cadillac | Feb 15 2023 17:10 utc | 60

@ my #60
Without the proper warning labels


Means: couldn't hit the broad side of a bar

Posted by: 44Cadillac | Feb 15 2023 17:19 utc | 61

For reasons that B described plus a few more it was obvious to me from the very beginning that the Chinese balloon could not be controlled and made to go to a specific place and to be able to hover there for an extended time. I am not suggesting that I am particularly clever, I am suggesting that it must also have been obvious to a great many people who watched the claim that it could be guided and who would have had credence in the MSM but watched silently as the lie became a key part of the further demonization of China. Being uncontrolable does not mean it was a weather balloon or otherwise "prove" anything about its payload but it is evidence to me that the payload did not contain anything the Chinese were afraid of being discovered.

Posted by: rjb | Feb 15 2023 17:20 utc | 62

The fact that the USSA military have persistently told the USSA resident peons "POOPSPEAK" since VJ day comes as no big surprise!

Recently since the release of the Korean wars doc's from the other side of the "Yalu River". The one where General the dumb&Dumber overblown fake WW2 hero General "bunker" Doug* came within thirty seconds of starting WW3. *a common nickname for this clown who prevented Japan from signing the end of WW2 peace/reparation payment treaty with the Soviet Union. Which was later to become the USSA's SOP since VJ day.

The Western poopaganda/YT media. Still continues on with the epic myth. The so-called F-86 Sabre was a superior USSA jet dogfighter. The release of the previously classified Korean War docs. Actually paints a completely different picture. Of a short-range and endurance aircraft limited to "Do Not Exceed Mach 0.92) and a clean service ceiling of 49,000 feet.

Could this epic POS of USSA-made flying day fighter only trash shoot down ten MIG-15bis? For allegedly 78 air combat losses? Not really. The true USSAF air combat losses of the F-86 over the skies of Korea were around 228 units. After that, the USSAF poopaganda lie gets even worse! F-86 losses were just fractionally smaller than the actual true recorded combat losses of the MIG-15 bis in Korea(Russian/Red Chinese/NK combat losses). The mythical Ten to One ratio is pure unadulterated standard daily "DJT" sewer poop trash speak.

Who knew in reality? A majority of all elected USSA's prezzes since 1776! Speak in fluent poopaganda? One that rivals the daily poop output. Of the UK'S well known for poopspeak! The 'BBC', Murdoch Media Daily Fail, and "Guardian "are substandard replacements for cheap toilet paper' Newspapers'(A REPLACEMENT LAXATIVE READ ONLY IN THRONE ROOM).

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Feb 15 2023 17:26 utc | 63

the theory that this whole thing was an excuse to 86 blinken's trip is the one that rings true to me. also convenient how all the new Balloons of Death are totes hard to recover so i guess we'll never know, amirite? i know they quit trying to make this sh_t believable a long time ago but WOW this is peak retard. so far, anyway.

Posted by: the pair | Feb 15 2023 17:40 utc | 64

an excuse to 86 blinken's trip
Posted by: the pair | Feb 15 2023 17:40 utc | 64


The balloon derailed Yellen's visit to China as well.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2023 17:47 utc | 65

Mistake-jet F-35 news:
The Gun On the Air Force's F-35 Has 'Unacceptable' Accuracy, Pentagon Testing Office Says

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 15 2023 15:16 utc | 45

That means it is not accurate, aims poorly, right?

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 15 2023 15:31 utc | 49

I'm sorry, but that's classified.

Posted by: David Levin | Feb 15 2023 18:19 utc | 66

@ Bemildred | Feb 15 2023 15:31 utc | 49
Sorry, I spent some time looking beyond the headlines, gun problems on F-35A, browsing through the miriad of mistake-jet F-35 faults and I didn't spot the details.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 15 2023 18:30 utc | 67

Posted by: Don Bacon | Feb 15 2023 18:30 utc | 67

Thank you for looking, it seemed to me that "unacceptable inaccuracy" was better, but the other fellow is likely right that it is understood in the military in the opposite sense. The accuracy is not good enough. Common USA idiom really.

Didn't mean to set you a task, so I do appreciate it.

Just being picky I suppose.

Posted by: Bemildred | Feb 15 2023 18:38 utc | 68

"Take that, you stupid balloon!!!"
Like I said, it must have been bring your kid to work day at the office, or something.

Posted by: Josh | Feb 15 2023 18:49 utc | 69

I'm surprised B doesn't consider an obvious possibility: the Chinese were probing, like a scientist who drops an object into an animal's cage to see what they do with it. Would we over-react? How soon do air defenses pick it up? Would we act decisively or debate it to death? How united are we?

Posted by: ian | Feb 15 2023 18:50 utc | 70

an obvious possibility: the Chinese were probing
Posted by: ian | Feb 15 2023 18:50 utc | 70


What a hilarious overabundance of arrogance. America is just so important that it attracts Chinese probes.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2023 18:56 utc | 71

Posted by: too scents | Feb 15 2023 18:56 utc | 71
Are all hegemonies not self-absorbed....and does that self-importance not ultimately lead to their demise?
Some speculate this is a generational thing....250 times around the Sun for history to repeat?
History does repeat but not always, but there is no denying any country makes a big deal about weather balloons is one that has a lesson to learn - hopefully, it ain't the final lesson, but if it is, then join the club of hegemonies long gone.
Lesson learned is if you can't learn from history you will repeat it.

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 15 2023 19:20 utc | 72

This balloon stuff is funny, balooney, ballunacy, balloonatics ..

Posted by: aquadraht | Feb 15 2023 19:35 utc | 73

Posted by: aquadraht | Feb 15 2023 19:35 utc | 73
I consider that a challenge and I like it.
Balloons, buffoons, baboons, bumbling, stumbling, ballistic dimwits not inwit.
Clueless, witless, pathetic bumbling, buffoons...
all the balloon killers must be in their dreams of
hegemony started after the last big war...
big wars, little wars, any war is worth it they think...
but who amongst us...
still ascribes to witless dimwit balloon killers?
Not I.
I'm a balloon lover.

BK, Poem of the Day...the time is....21523 1448

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 15 2023 19:48 utc | 74

An older article worth note?

Posted by: Khuay | Feb 15 2023 20:46 utc | 75

The only probing Chinese need to do is leave a stack of $100s in congressional hallway and see who picks it up first.

Posted by: Fred777 | Feb 15 2023 20:47 utc | 76

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 15 2023 19:48 utc | 74

Ken, I'd say you're in the running for MoA Poet Laureate.

Posted by: David Levin | Feb 15 2023 20:47 utc | 77

Perimetr | Feb 15 2023 16:56 utc | 19

"...The problem is the unwillingness of the Kremlin to use sufficient force to bring the conflict to a quick Russians victory before the West adds provocation upon proocation and widens the war into a general war between the West and Russia. It is the inability after one year of the Kremlin to act decisively that is turning the conflict into a world war.

My bold. See the fallacy?

Posted by: OttoE | Feb 15 2023 20:55 utc | 78

Posted by: David Levin | Feb 15 2023 20:47 utc | 77
I'm tired of contest to be honest!

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 15 2023 20:58 utc | 79

Besides contest, seems to me flux has gone over the top.....
when balloons get shot down by expensive missiles it must be obvious.
Something is amiss.
We all know, most of us here, preaching to the choir so to speak....we all know...
That is why, at some point somebody must ponder - how am I going to spend my energy?
I've decided with determination what I'm going to do.
I don't want any "poet" awards because I think we all our poets....
some of us, just speak our views more than others....
what matters is a roof over the head and food to eat.
That is my focus.
I'm indignant, and Jefferson was wrong....about the timing of it, but not about the fact he knew it was coming...
Madison had a sweet baby doll sort of (of the time) as his companion and the two of them ran a white house well.
Jackson - on the other, oy Jackson - you be on the $20 bill, but truly was it you who made the choices in New Orleans...
more than that Jackson - you were the one passed the Indian Removal Act in 1830 - and that has consequence.
Like now.

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 15 2023 21:04 utc | 80

Hermit | Feb 15 2023 15:56 utc | 52
You are a disgusting Gadarene pig.

Posted by: Rjb1.5 | Feb 15 2023 21:08 utc | 81,many%20resisted%20the%20relocation%20policy.
did you know when Jackson got inaugurated there was a big party in the white house?
there was and the peasants got all animated....and well why one wonders?

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 15 2023 21:13 utc | 82

Nate from the Canadian prepper pretty well got the ballongate issue defined.

He said it is a distraction to get the people used to much more military activity without alarming them to the seriousness of the real military situation.

The real situation is that the USA and its vassals allied within NATO are rapidly heading towards nuclear war with Russia. This war is inevitable. The USA will not back down because it has to take Russia down or lose its world's hegemony along with the world reserve status of its United States Dollar. The Russian bear will not back down because it absolutely can not trust the West after being led down the West's lying path way too many times.

Without a twinge of any spiritul awareness, a logical person can figure this out if they are aware of a few truths. Yet, truth is so elusive to so many today as they have wholesale rejected it.

Posted by: young | Feb 15 2023 21:17 utc | 83

Edward Snowden:

it's not aliens

i wish it were aliens

but it's not aliens

it's just the ol' engineered panic, an attractive nuisance ensuring natsec reporters get assigned to investigate balloon bullshit rather than budgets or bombings (à la nordstream)

until next time

Posted by: xor | Feb 15 2023 21:18 utc | 84

B, I'm seeing that the Sy Hersh report detailing the American attack on Nordstream2 is causing a stir in German Parliament. If only we knew of some Germans who could comment, hmmm, thinking, thinking...

Anyway, I don't follow comment threads too closely, but will look for some confirmation; this balloon hype was well timed and took all the attention away from the already marginalized Sy Hersh. This is definitely a redirection; look over here.

Posted by: scottindallas | Feb 15 2023 21:19 utc | 85

Just to prove what an asshole Jackson was, I went to the place where he spent his formative years amongst the Cherokee - and I'll be damned, but he was a traitor to his friends.
I just can't abide that - so how about we get his fucking face of the $20 bill?
I've been to Franklin's place as well in Philadelphia and a totally different "feel" it had. I've been to Washington's place as well as Jefferson's and I respect both of them. Madison, just like the Federal paper #10 is somebody I'm not sure I fully appreciate, but hopefully there will be time to study that and learn as any student of history strives to do, and the best way to learn mind ya is to get your hands dirty in the soil.
Jackson though without a doubt was an asshole. I hope the party he is affiliated with dies sort of the opposite way it happened when the delaware dimwit got selected and all the dipshits dropped out especially the big gay dipshit supposed running the Department of Transportation - what a shame that all has been.
You know - consider chemical spills in Ohio amongst other things if you think I'm full of it....but that guy really is not why is he the one in the job one might ponder if they hadn't already realized like I have that I have been lied too from the gubment since the day I was born.
Sad state of affairs all around.
So sad.

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 15 2023 21:19 utc | 86

"There is no real way to control their [a balloons] flight path."

You're so wrong about this. Just for starters

"Thunderhead Balloon Systems have made long duration and navigational stratospheric missions a proven reality. By leveraging directional wind patterns at high altitudes, Raven Aerostar's Thunderhead Balloon Systems offer groundbreaking capabilities for navigation and persistence over areas of interest.

With Thunderhead Balloon Systems, controlled flight and long duration capabilities can be planned and executed at a fraction of the cost and time of traditional stratospheric platforms.

Thunderhead Balloon Systems can be flown in constellations or individually to support a wide range of mission requirements. Affording users land-based and maritime launch platforms, applications are dynamic and diverse."

Posted by: Johnny Dollar | Feb 15 2023 22:27 utc | 87

Hermit #46

Never mind that the train, running on worn out track where derailments are common was carrying phosgene, hydrogen chloride, vinyl chloride, ethylene glycol, monobutyl ether and isobutylene through an urban environment. Or that the mind-blowingly idiotic "authorities" decided to set it all on fire so they didn't need to waste money cleaning it up.

I read somewhere that the engineman and signalman wore White Helmets ;) That figures when you consider the contents in those wagons.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Feb 15 2023 23:02 utc | 88

Yves Engler looks at the balloon idiocy from a Canadian angle. Its a reminder that France, Germany and the UK are equal and sovereign partners of the US when compared with its northern satrapy.

"A Chinese balloon has been a wonderful gift for an alliance that embeds Canada deeply into the US Empire.

"On the opinion page of Monday’s Globe and Mail, Royal Military College of Canada professor Christian Leuprecht argued that the recent shootdown of four different ‘objects’ over North American airspace should lead to “redoubling our commitment to NORAD”. Erasing decades of Cold War propaganda, the Director of University of Manitoba’s Centre for Defence and Security Studies, Andrea Charron, took to the pages of the National Post to write that the North American Aerospace Defense Command is “now needed more than ever”. For its part, the Canadian Press published “Airborne incursions offers clear evidence that NORAD needs upgrade: the US expert”.

"But the balloon/UFO panic is a bread only sandwich. US officials are now admitting the three unidentified objects they recently shot down may have been “tied to commercial or research entities and therefore benign”. Additionally, the Washington Post reports that US officials tracked the Chinese balloon from Hainan island and that it “may have been diverted on an errant path”.

"Still, NORAD has been given a boost. The pro-NORAD rhetoric has bolstered the government’s push to spend heavily on an alliance that undercuts Canadian sovereignty and strengthens the US Empire. In June the Liberals announced a $5 billion 6-year expansion of NORAD, which is the first phase in a 20-year $40+ billion plan to upgrade the military alliance. Additionally, spending on F-35s and other high-tech weaponry is partly designed to ensure the Canadian Forces are capable of working alongside their US counterparts in NORAD.

"The main criticism of NORAD has been that it impinges on Canadian sovereignty. When the accord was being negotiated 65 years ago an internal External Affairs memo explained, “the establishment of NORAD is a decision for which there is no precedent in Canadian history in that it grants in peace time to a foreign representative operational control of an element of Canadian Forces in Canada.” Under the accord the Colorado-based US commander of NORAD could deploy Canadian fighter jets based in this country without any express Canadian endorsement..."

Posted by: bevin | Feb 15 2023 23:19 utc | 89

@uncle tungsten | Feb 15 2023 23:02 utc | 88


This rail is in Ohio (The Napoleon, Defiance & Western Railroad) and is still rated to carry 254,000 lbs.

Posted by: Hermit | Feb 15 2023 23:51 utc | 90

@uncle tungsten | Feb 15 2023 23:02 utc | 88
@Hermit | Feb 15 2023 23:51 utc | 91

As usual with phinger trouble on the phone, the link phuqued out.

The Worst Rail Track. Ever.


Posted by: Hermit | Feb 15 2023 23:55 utc | 91

Helmer posted an interview with India's General P.R. Shankar Tuesday. The Indian artillery expert’s analysis has been appearing regularly in the Indian media. Indian military experience has not been getting the attention it warrants in the North American and European press; there a handful of Swiss, German, and US officers have been pitting their expertise against the mainstream media line.

However, a followup article is incredible. Many points, but there's a fascinating take on the "UFO" phenomena. While Snowden and many other have said that it sure beats talking about Seymour Hersh's Nord Stream reporting, Helmer's source posits:

"Take the so-called Unidentified Flying Object crisis for NORAD [North American Aerospace Defense Command] or the so-called Chinese balloon crisis in the US media. All these UFO shoot-downs and conflicting accounts from the Pentagon, Congress, state governors, the Canadian government, NORAD, etc., show just how vulnerable they feel. There’s been an embarrassingly obvious display of military tactical and political mishandling of weather balloons, and the disconnect between the military and the political commands. All systems were tested and they’ve failed. Everything since has been catch-up, grotesquely overdue, clumsily handled, political posturing. It’s obvious and it’s been noted by the Chinese and Russians."

And the kicker:

"Imagine from the military point of view, if the enemy decided to launch a swarm of a thousand weather balloons, or 5,000 party balloons, from the Sea of Okhotsk – the US defence capacity would be paralyzed, and [President] Biden and [Prime Minister] Trudeau would have shown themselves up to be asses. The US media haven’t caught on to this yet, but you can be sure the Russians and the Chinese have. I suppose Chancellor Scholz and President Macron have ordered up top-secret maps and plans for what would happen to their defences if the Siberian east to westward winds which once carried Chernobyl radiation, and regularly carry Siberian cold snaps, delivered swarms of balloons. A Maginot Line fantasy in the sky?"

Posted by: daffyDuct | Feb 16 2023 1:26 utc | 92

@ 89 bevin, thanks for the link, Yves Engler is always worth reading on Canadian military topics! Many years ago, when NORAD was under review and discussion, I formed the opinion that the primary initial purpose for it was for Her Majesty the Queen to accelerate the bankruptcy of the USA (nothing like drilling into solid rock to burn through wads of cash — and the British had an empire on which the sun never set without ever one time paying to drill into the side of a mountain to maintain it. Never one time, ever.) Back then, the relevant authorities did manage to make a persuasive argument through the media for maintaining Canada’s (costly) participation in NORAD although I can’t remember what it was now. Some thing for Canada being in NATO (something to do with unfriendliness/greediness from certain European overlords - my words, that wasn’t the actual argument). This would be in the 80’s.

On the balloon, no this isn’t satire: “Object downed over Yukon a ‘suspected balloon’: top soldier” No more need to use the term “aerial object”, I guess

Neither is this satire, by the way. City of Edmonton removes gender discrimination by allowing anyone to go bare-chested in the City’s swimming pools

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Feb 16 2023 10:40 utc | 93

(Off-topic....sort of):
Posted by: David Levin | Feb 15 2023 20:47 utc | 77
I've tried to reach out to you (electronically) regarding something.......I hope you don't mind. It is a harmless hexagon tile idea I've been pondering and your link seemed pretty cool to me with respect to chess and gaming theory, so I figured...."why not".

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 16 2023 16:04 utc | 94

Here is one for the funny farm...
The US Airforce may have shot down an Amateur Radio Pico Balloon over Canada

Posted by: circumspect | Feb 16 2023 16:20 utc | 95

Another bit of news this week is the Pentagon, or some other security agency, said they monitored the launch of the balloon, revealing America's spying on China. Spying is framed as an existential threat when China supposedly does it with balloons.

Posted by: Wilikins | Feb 16 2023 16:33 utc | 96

"I pointed out that this was by far not the first Chinese weather balloon that drifted in unexpected directions. That is normal. The winds at the level where such balloons fly are very strong. There is no real way to control their flight path." Are you really suggesting that its flight path was merely that of an out-of-control balloon being carried by prevailing winds? Seriously?

Posted by: OTOH/IMHO | Feb 16 2023 17:02 utc | 97

Posted by: circumspect | Feb 16 2023 16:20 utc | 96
I agree with the commentor, named Charlie P who stated:
This is excellent reporting, something we desperately need more of.
Thank you.

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 16 2023 17:07 utc | 98

(Off-topic again but who really cares...
Message received - response sent.
Ain't it time for the adults in the room to put an end to trickery and talk honestly?
I'm pretty sure that is blinking effing true.

Posted by: Buffalo_Ken | Feb 16 2023 19:46 utc | 99

Just read that Russia is launching surveillance balloons over Ukraine. I’m no military’l finance...but the more I think about it, the more it seems mass, high altitude, cheap balloon surveillance of an enemy is just a brilliant strategy...from many angles. The US gov’t knows perfectly well what those are...just too embarrassing to admit it...have to scramble jets and shoot expensive/increasingly scarce missiles to down them / exposing air defense locations, etc... or just let them float along collecting data in a humiliatingly open way / visible to public via naked eye?? It just seems brilliantly simple to me...but again, I’m no military expert. The Chinese and Russians launch hundreds of thousands more “benign weather balloons”...and we scramble the air force to shoot down cheap balloons with expensive / scarce missiles over sometimes populated areas?? We start WWIII over a claimed “mass weather balloon deployment accident”?? Just seems comical in its brilliant simplicity. I just read that Russia is organizing this carnival game in Ukraine...step right up sir and try to shoot one down with whatever expensive missile you’ve got! sorry but thanks for playing the game!...or we’ve got a winner!...give him one hell of an expensive cigar! Any comment from military people here??

Posted by: Globalguy | Feb 16 2023 20:02 utc | 100

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