U.S. Officials Claim More 'Russiagate' Like Nonsense
At the end of last year a letter bomb campaign in Spain hit several offices:
In late November and early December 2022, a number of letter bombs were mailed to locations across Spain. Packages were received at high-profile individuals and locations, including the Prime Minister of Spain's Moncloa residence, the Ukrainian and U.S. embassies in Madrid, Torrejon Air Base, and the arms manufacturer Instalaza. One person has been injured in the attacks—a security officer at the Ukrainian embassy in Madrid.
...
Spain's High Court was reported to have opened an investigation for a possible case of terrorism.In December 2022, Spanish authorities disclosed they believed the letters were postmarked from the city of Valladolid.
Spain has so far not concluded which person or group might have sent the letters and what the possible motives behind the campaign were.
That does not seem to matter for the some 'U.S. officials' which try to pin the case to Russia. The story is a continuation of their fraudulent 'Russiagate' fairytales.
The stenographers at the New York Times thus headline:
Russian Agents Suspected of Directing Far-Right Group to Mail Bombs in Spain
U.S. officials say the operation may be a signal by Russia that the country and its proxies could carry out more terrorist actions in Europe if nations continue supporting Ukraine.
On might expect some evidence when such wide reaching claims are made. But alas, none is provided.
The quite long story is based on the following sources:
U.S. officials say ...
American and European officials believe ... according to U.S. officials.
Investigators ... have focused on ... the officials said.
U.S. officials say ... Russian officers who directed the campaign appeared intent ...
The apparent aim ... said the U.S. officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivities around the investigation.
There are no signs that Moscow is ready to engage in widespread covert attacks or sabotage .. , which Russian officials believe could provoke a response, ... according to U.S. and allied officials.
Mr. Putin’s calculus ... U.S. officials say.
Putin has given his military intelligence agency wide latitude ... they say.
The Russian officers behind the bombing campaign work for ... U.S. officials say.
Members of the agency have been involved in ... according to U.S. officials.
U.S. officials suspect ... U.S. officials say.
Spanish investigators have identified “persons of interest” ... one senior U.S. official said.
A spokeswoman for the Spanish Embassy in Washington declined to comment, citing the continuing inquiry.
Fiona Hill ... said it would not be surprising if ...
American and British intelligence officials have been working with the Spanish national police and counterintelligence officials ... Their suspicions about the Russian Imperial Movement ... coalesced late last year ... officials say.
The radical group is only partially aligned with the Russian government. The movement’s leadership has criticized the incompetence of Russian leadership in the Ukraine war and accused Mr. Putin of corruption. Yet because the group shares Moscow’s aims of undermining ... Russian intelligence has been able to influence its operations, according to American officials.
The State Department designated the group ... in April 2020 ...
... the department said in the announcement of the designation.
The Center for International Security and Cooperation at Stanford University describes the Russian Imperial Movement as ... The group advocates the restoration of czarist rule to Russia, it said, and nurtures ties with neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups in the United States and Europe.
American and European security officials have had growing concerns about white supremacist groups with transnational links for most of the last decade. In 2019, for example, an Australian man who killed 51 people at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, ...
As a result of the recent letter bombs, ... U.S. officials said.
In 2018, they tried to kill Sergei V. Skripal, .... Russian agents have also carried out ... according to European intelligence officials.
The same elite group active in Europe, Unit 29155, has operated in Afghanistan and offered bounties to reward Taliban-linked militants for killing American and coalition troops, according to a U.S. intelligence assessment first reported by The New York Times. American officials said in 2021 that they had no evidence showing the Kremlin had ordered the covert action.
According to what U.S. officials claim some anti-Kremlin fringe group in Russia was used by a Russian intelligence service to somehow send letter bombs from Valladolid, Spain, to some offices in Madrid.
But why would Russian intelligence run such a nonsense campaign? Why would it use a problematic fringe group of Russian crazies to do so. Why in Spain? Why not in Poland, Germany or France? What is the evidence?
None of those questions get answered. Instead rumors and hot air assumptions are put together to make the claims somewhat less outrageous. This is on the same level as the lies about 'weapons of mass destruction in Iraq' the Times printed 20 years ago.
The addition of the implausible Skripal poisoning story and the false claims of 'Russian bounties' in Afghanistan does not help to make the story more convincing. There is no evidence that either happened at all.
What is somewhat funny is the writers' attempt to put the Russian imperialist fringe group into the vicinity of the Christchurch mass murder in New Zealand. The killer had been friend with Ukrainian Nazi terrorists:
In the wake of the New Zealand mosque attacks, links have emerged between the shooter and a Ukrainian ultra-nationalist, white supremacist paramilitary organisation called the Azov Battalion. The shooter’s manifesto alleges that he visited the country during his many travels abroad, and the flak jacket he wore during the assault featured a symbol commonly used by the Azov Battalion.
...
The Azov Battalion is emerging as a critical node in the transnational right-wing violent extremist (RWE) network. This group maintains its own “Western Outreach Office” to help recruit and attract foreign fighters that travel to train and connect with people from like-minded violent organisations from across the globe.
We know that 'U.S. intelligence' is bullshit and that U.S. official are liars, especially with regards to anything around Ukraine.
We know that because 'U.S. officials' said so:
bigger
That makes the publishing of the above story by the Times even more egregious.
Posted by b on January 23, 2023 at 16:24 UTC | Permalink
In other news, the Zaporizhia Offensive of the "Real Russian Army, the Red one" seems to have completely stalled after some inconsequential gains.
This is confirmed by Rybar, the front lines have moved away from the city of Orikhiv, after Rybar seems to have jumped the gun on the initial day. Rybar also reports the fighting has turned into a positional one.
I'm going to guess MoA will memory hole this and pretend that the Russian offensive was never real and they are still holding back their super-modern army for another day.
Posted by: Bernd | Jan 23 2023 16:36 utc | 2
Russiagate is one of the worst groupthink phenomena I have seen during my lifetime. The complete lack of evidence doesn't faze many people. Some will go so far as to accuse you of siding with Putin, just for insisting on proof. Western culture is so broken
Posted by: Chris N | Jan 23 2023 16:34 utc | 1
For me it's a tossup between Russia Russia Russia and the Covid/fake vaccine scams.
I'm beyond appalled.
Posted by: Michigan Dude | Jan 23 2023 16:41 utc | 3
Posted by: Bernd | Jan 23 2023 16:36 utc | 2
"the Zaporizhia Offensive of the "Real Russian Army, the Red one" seems to have completely stalled after some inconsequential gains."
Yawn. I trust those Ukrainians 'eliminated' in that region agree with you. Oh and Krasnopolye was liberated in the Donetsk area in one of those 'inconsequential gains'... (not Zaporozhye direction I grant you).
Keep on dreaming of Azov Einsatzgruppe 2.0 trundling to Moskva.
QK
Posted by: Qolotlh Kernow | Jan 23 2023 16:54 utc | 4
This must be to put some pressure on Spain to expel more Russian diplomats and the result of some Integrity Initiative node's investigation (soon to be revealed). Bellingcat, perhaps. Journalism it isn't.
Posted by: Jeremn | Jan 23 2023 16:56 utc | 5
@Michigan Dude
One way in which the Covid shot debacle was worse is how it impacted our day-to-day lives, including relationships with family and friends. I was accused of siding with "white privilege" about a year ago when I spoke out on the unfair media coverage of the truckers here in Canada. Such a bizarre devotion to an experimental medicine that neither stops infection nor spread
Posted by: Chris N | Jan 23 2023 17:11 utc | 6
I am amazed how quickly the Rat Pa Trolls come out to spew lies and misinformation on MoA. It is as if they get up and wait for b to open a new thread so that they can the first to spread their prewritten Ukrainian rat shit propaganda.
Posted by: Ed | Jan 23 2023 17:16 utc | 7
”But why would Russian intelligence run such a nonsense campaign?”
b, you’re asking the wrong question. Putin is mad, remember? Like any other adversary of the klingon (sorry, make that ’US’) empire. Ergo, claiming that the Russians probably didn’t do something just because it would be illogical will get you nowhere. Quite the contrary: it being illogical is rock solid proof that they did it.
Posted by: Jörgen Hassler | Jan 23 2023 17:23 utc | 8
@berntd keep at it my man. B is an amazing analyst but I think he is losing perspective a bit with regards to Russia. We need guys like u to keep him on his toes
Posted by: A.z | Jan 23 2023 17:25 utc | 9
Posted by: Qolotlh Kernow | Jan 23 2023 16:54 utc | 4
I would recommend following Robert Magyar's and the rysnya200 channel on Telegram if you want to get a first-hand look into the Special Devitalisation Operation of the Russian male population.
Also, I think you mistyped, one does not trundle to Moskva, one dives to Moskva, as this flagship of the Black Sea Fleet now lies at the bottom of the Black Sea.
Posted by: Bernd | Jan 23 2023 17:27 utc | 10
Posted by: Chris N | Jan 23 2023 16:34 utc | 1
Posted by: Michigan Dude | Jan 23 2023 16:41 utc | 3
Yeah Michigan Dude, I wouldn't even put Russiagate in the top 5.
The most effective propaganda psyops are the ones that the majority people haven't recognized yet. Russiagate was only a talking point for the already confirmed never-Trumpers. Most people didn't pay attention or saw it for what it was.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jan 23 2023 17:39 utc | 11
It is as if they get up and wait for b to open a new thread so that they can the first to spread their prewritten Ukrainian rat shit propaganda.Posted by: Ed | Jan 23 2023 17:16 utc | 7
It would be relatively trivial to write a script to crawl a series of specific sites to be alerted whenever new blog post appears. Langley likely makes it available to its disinformation team. I have noticed a similar pattern on other alt-media sites.
Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jan 23 2023 17:43 utc | 12
For all my seemingly new fans. I follow Moon of Alabama on Twitter and have notifications turned on for their tweets. Hence I often manage to comment first.
I am just here to add some balance to the debate. I realise some of you have had your brains completely dissolved by the solvent that is the pro-Russia blogosphere (The Saker, Martynov etc), and so need some reality checks.
Ukraine has already won in a strategic sense, it has proven it is indeed a real nation willing to stand up against invaders (Russia) and Russia's plan to waltz into Kyiv and regime change the government like they did in Crimea almost 9 years ago flopped hard.
Assuming Ukrainians are indeed Russians, I have to wonder what exactly Russia achieves by killing Russians and "Russians" (Ukrainians) in such large numbers. Russia has a shortage of working age males and in order to remain economically viable, it needs to preserve them, not waste them in pointless wars to capture territories inhabited mostly by babushkas.
After this war is over, I think all statues of Stephan Bandera should be torn down and statues of Putin put in his place, he has done far more to build the Ukrainian National Idea than Bandera ever could.
Posted by: Bernd | Jan 23 2023 17:56 utc | 13
Opport Knocks@12 Yes, they're responding to notifications of new content. Their job is to make sure the proles are exposed to Ministry of Truth propaganda.
Their owners belief that we reject it because we're not seeing it. Disbelieving it isn't conceivable to them.
Posted by: Jesrad | Jan 23 2023 17:58 utc | 14
As a long-time and so-far Trump (and Biden) opponent, I have to admit after reading the paper in question that the truth is just the opposite: the US intelligence agencies (and other institutions) did their best to fail Trump in key states (swaying more than 2% of the vote), but they failed. Russia and China loved Trump more at that time but they can't defeat the bots and troll farms owned by the US.
The Russiagate investigation made it impossible for even most of Trump's big supporters to think this was possible, and that is the deeper deception.
I wanted Trump to fail at the time, but I also had to admit that Trump's victory was stolen by Biden. I was shocked at the mass media's subsequent mass distortion of the truth, even though I had an awakening in February 2020 when I saw the severity of the media cover-up of covid.
Democratic elections have always been a scam, as communists have long told people, but most of the parties that now go by the name of communism are just contemporary versions of the social democrats of the past.
Posted by: Colin | Jan 23 2023 18:14 utc | 15
Let's not get our pants in a twists about the latest narrative. Take it apart to pull meaning but it's wasteful to get upset about such nonsense.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jan 23 2023 18:14 utc | 16
@13
Ukraine has already won in a strategic sense, it has proven it is indeed a real nation willing to stand up against invaders (Russia) and Russia's plan to waltz into Kyiv and regime change the government like they did in Crimea almost 9 years ago flopped hard.Haha and you bill yourself as 'devils advocate' on here? What a sad, pathetic joke.
Ukraine has proven, since 2014, they are nothing but lapdogs to the western money elites and are willing to send their people to die for nothing. Granted the comedian was elected by a vast majority to end the nightmare but instead caved into his masters in London, DC and Wall St.Posted by: hedlykarok | Jan 23 2023 18:18 utc | 17
Seeing people claim Ukraine has won a strategic victory before the war is over are so funny.
You can tell they want to be able to claim victory when Ukraine loses the war. It’s so transparent, there is no other reasonable motive.
Posted by: AgreeableWhoop | Jan 23 2023 18:24 utc | 18
I am amazed how quickly the Rat Pa Trolls come out to spew lies and misinformation on MoA. It is as if they get up and wait for b to open a new thread so that they can the first to spread their prewritten Ukrainian rat shit propaganda.
Posted by: Ed | Jan 23 2023 17:16 utc | 7
b has always urged commenters to ignore trolls - meaning don't respond to them or acknowledge, or refer to, them or their remarks. It is the most consistently effective way to make them feel unwanted.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 23 2023 18:26 utc | 19
Posted by: Bernd
This one appears in second place. I'm guessing their action guidelines require them to not reply first to avoid being too obvious.
In addition, He uses exaggerated expectations to rationalize the opposite narrative. By the same standard, the great failure of Western projections of Russian economic growth clearly suggests that Russia will completely defeat NATO.
This consideration of only short-term progress under only a single forecast in a local battlefield is nothing but a smugness under a logical fallacy.
This is reinforced by the inability to respond to the battlefield progress pointed out by others and the very awkward way to change the subject.
Perhaps his "reality check" refers to the logical fallacy of generalization and diversion, as many "fact-checkers" and "counter-fact-checkers" will do.
By his criteria for victory, it is clear that Iraq was victorious in 1991 and the United States was totally defeated. And he apparently ignores that Russia was not prepared to win with almost no fighting, as it did in Crimea.
It is clear that we need to "add balance" to this kind of ridiculous narrative made up by the Western elites.
Also, by his standards, it is clear that the Civil War was pointless because the American land needed population and the North should not have killed Southerners whom they considered to be Americans.
It looks as if I have found a crypto-Confederate supporter.
Maybe I shouldn't tell him that Russia has a younger population than the US, lest his performance pay be docked by his supervisor today.
Posted by: Colin | Jan 23 2023 18:28 utc | 20
Ukraine should claim a "strategic victory" and surrender.
Posted by: casca | Jan 23 2023 18:42 utc | 21
I am just here to add some balance to the debate. I realise some of you have had your brains completely dissolved by the solvent
Posted by: Bernd |
Of course, when this kind of statement said that "you all have gone way too far", it means that "although the direction is right, it is still seriously not far enough, wide enough, deep enough, serious enough, and consolidated enough".
As he deliberately neglected, the war in Ukraine has the effect of uniting the Russian state: whereas in the past oligarchs could easily be so-called "citizens of the world," today it is not so easy to do so. This has made the Russian bourgeois state more united, while he questions why the war in Ukraine is meaningful for Russia and talked about the unity of Ukraine.
Such obvious lies, like those of Russiatgate, are designed to prevent the vast majority of people from discovering the truth is just opposite: why should Westerners (especially and even anti-Russians) continue to support Ukrainian ultra-nationalist state to consolidate the Russian state?
Clearly, such Russian unity would be weakened if the West were to allow Russia to occupy eastern Ukraine and reconcile with Russia.
According to his logic, Russia should praise NATO for bringing the Russian people together.
Posted by: Colin | Jan 23 2023 18:43 utc | 22
You can tell they want to be able to claim victory when Ukraine loses the war. It’s so transparent, there is no other reasonable motive.
Posted by: AgreeableWhoop | Jan 23 2023 18:24 utc | 18
According to his criteria, it is clear that Russia has defeated the United States, because this war has consolidated the unity of the Russian nation, not the other way around.
Of course I again suggest that those who are able to do so help Ukrainian men to flee Ukraine in order to really weaken the Ukrainian ultra-nationalist regime.
Posted by: Colin | Jan 23 2023 18:48 utc | 23
The complete lack of evidence doesn't faze many people. Some will go so far as to accuse you of siding with Putin, just for insisting on proof. Western culture is so broken
Seems to me as if the complete lack of every evidence is seen as the most convincing evidence...
Welcome to the new age of believing! Say goodbye to the age of enlightenment. We have lost the truth and the ability to agree on facts. We are losing exact language as well, which causes difficulty in thinking precisely...
So we are heading to the abyss with smiles on our faces and spinning in various directens, depending on which spin doctors we are preferring to believe...
Sorry. I'm rambling. I should go for a glass of Glenfiddich 18 now....
Posted by: T.h.omas | Jan 23 2023 18:48 utc | 24
As Scott Adams pointed out yesterday, people whose first reaction to 24/7 propaganda is disbelief are never wrong. And if your rule is: "The harder they push the more I resist" you will also be right.
It works on just about any subject.
Posted by: wagelaborer | Jan 23 2023 18:50 utc | 25
Posted by: T.h.omas | Jan 23 2023 18:48 utc | 24
Considering how much sociology and economics have celebrated "trust" and devalued "distrust" over the decades, the agenda of the ruling class is clear.
Much of the criticism is accused of "spreading doubt", as if doubt is inherently wrong and only belief in all indoctrination is right.
Just as the speculative opinions of senior health bureaucrats with high conflicts of interest are hailed as science, randomized double-blind controlled trials are seen as useless.
In the name of "fighting against fake news", misinformation is widely disseminated.
The analogy about the abyss and the smile is quite wonderful. Beneath the surface of everything being fine is actually the truth of filth and stench.
In retrospect, the red pill was taken when I started exploring on Google Scholar.
Posted by: Colin | Jan 23 2023 18:58 utc | 26
@Bernd
I am just here to add some balance to the debate. I realise some of you have had your brains completely dissolved by the solvent that is the pro-Russia blogosphere (The Saker, Martynov etc), and so need some reality checks.
You don't win friends by being a patronising know-all mate. The last thing we need is another red-pilled internet warrior who is going to 'set us all on the right path about how things really are'. insert oversized facepalm emoji here.
PS. just tested positive for covid this morning. Haven't felt this crook in a long while, hence zero tolerance for wankers.
Posted by: Patroklos | Jan 23 2023 19:03 utc | 27
Empire propagandists will always claim victory no matter how big the defeat. When this war ends with Russia achieving its aims, they’ll claim that they saved Western Ukraine from being occupied and prevented Russia from invading Europe. Their claims of this being a war of Russian imperialist expansion always neglects the fact that Putins repeated public statements in favour of the Minsk Accords being implemented means that Putin fully supported the autonomous Donbas remaining WITHIN the borders of the Ukrainian State. It’s also not mentioned that the tentative Istanbul peace agreement negotiated between the Ukrainians and Russians to end the war last March/April that was torpedoed by Boris Johnson also proves that Russia wasn’t seeking the acquisition of more territory.
Posted by: John G | Jan 23 2023 19:04 utc | 28
For all my seemingly new fans. I follow Moon of Alabama on Twitter and have notifications turned on for their tweets. Hence I often manage to comment first.
LMFAO. Don't think I've seen a self-own/self-outing like this in a long time. Translation: I'm paid to disseminate NAFO talking points (or if I'm not, I might as well be).
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 23 2023 19:24 utc | 30
Posted by: Patroklos | Jan 23 2023 19:03 utc | 27
Get better, bud. Do you know if this is the first time you've had it?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 23 2023 19:25 utc | 31
Re letterbombs in Spain. As a resident, I saw the news of this in the local papers when it happened. The batshit crazies here are on the right. Does not seem to be any pro russian sentiment anywhere. My guess is it has to do with Morroco and Algiers, throw in western sahara and the geopolitical alegences get complicated. A false flag, but by whom and why?
Posted by: c | Jan 23 2023 19:28 utc | 32
I am just here to add some balance to the debate. I realise some of you have had your brains completely dissolved by the solvent that is the pro-Russia blogosphere (The Saker, Martynov etc), and so need some reality checks.
Posted by: Bernd | Jan 23 2023 17:56 utc | 13
###
I literally cannot stop laughing. Part of me wants to believe you're being sincere because that makes this so much more hilarious.
The hubris, the ego, the self-righteousness. It's like a wonderful comedy skit playing out here on MoA in the comment section.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jan 23 2023 19:40 utc | 33
Scott Adams is an idiot. He blocked me on Twitter when I said he should quit being so scared of covid.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jan 23 2023 19:54 utc | 34
As a thought experiment, imagine if Hillary had won in 2016. Do we think that the push on the Donbas would have happened 4 years earlier? Would Russia have been as ready as they were in 2022? I have zero evidence, and the entire Russiagate narrative is beyond silly, but it amuses me to consider that perhaps Russia really did have a hand in the Trump win. They certainly had motive, and things appear to be working in their favour following Hillary's amusing debacle.
If the West can have their alternate reality, why can't I?
Posted by: Occasional poster | Jan 23 2023 20:06 utc | 35
I see the scheme embodies "Putin's calculus", but it is not determined yet how it fits with the "Russian playbook".
Posted by: jayc | Jan 23 2023 20:14 utc | 36
Last paragraph of the NY Times "reporting":
The same elite group active in Europe, Unit 29155, has operated in Afghanistan and offered bounties to reward Taliban-linked militants for killing American and coalition troops, according to a U.S. intelligence assessment first reported by The New York Times. American officials said in 2021 that they had no evidence showing the Kremlin had ordered the covert action.
I like (sarcasm) how the NYT supposes to include the bogus Russia paid bounties claim as some established fact, but then in the final sentence of the paragraph says US intelligence contradicts this BS we published. Of course the NYT omits the fact that the US general in charge of occupying Afghanistan publicly contradicted the NYT within days of the June 2020 NYT "reporting". So that's well before 2021, the purposely broad+ambiguous date, when the NYT implies that US intelligence first contradicted the NYT.
Posted by: Jay | Jan 23 2023 20:28 utc | 37
Now with what I'm quoting distinguished:
Last paragraph of the NY Times "reporting":
The same elite group active in Europe, Unit 29155, has operated in Afghanistan and offered bounties to reward Taliban-linked militants for killing American and coalition troops, according to a U.S. intelligence assessment first reported by The New York Times. American officials said in 2021 that they had no evidence showing the Kremlin had ordered the covert action.
I like (sarcasm) how the NYT supposes to include the bogus Russia paid bounties claim as some established fact, but then in the final sentence of the paragraph says US intelligence contradicts this BS we published. Of course the NYT omits the fact that the US general in charge of occupying Afghanistan publicly contradicted the NYT within days of the June 2020 NYT "reporting". So that's well before 2021, the purposely broad+ambiguous date, when the NYT implies that US intelligence first contradicted the NYT.
Posted by: Jay | Jan 23 2023 20:31 utc | 38
Patroklos - get well soon! Let me know if you need some help with resources for Ivermectin.
Bernd: If we wanted to get Uki propaganda and CGI fakes or recycled RF kill videos, we know where to find them. No need to share them here, friend.
Posted by: R3DP1LL3R | Jan 23 2023 20:34 utc | 39
Shouldn't U.S. officials at least consider that it is IRAN who is doing the terror bombing?
Posted by: Christian Chuba | Jan 23 2023 20:54 utc | 40
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 23 2023 19:25 utc | 31
Thanks for you well wishes! Yep, as far as I know first time. Only had the first 2 shots. My wife and daughter have it too. It's like an episode of Gray's Anatomy over here... Symptoms are same as bad flu. Expecting to be better by Friday (fingers crossed).
Meanwhile I have the comments to distract me ;)
Posted by: Patroklos | Jan 23 2023 21:09 utc | 41
The funny thing is that the western mainstream media is selling the population that Russia has already lost and at the same time is threatening to conquer Europe. That the Russians have run out of weapons, but Ukraine still needs hundreds of tanks. That Putin is completely irrational, but still will never detonate a nuclear bomb.
The funnier thing is that a big part the population believes that.
Posted by: xblob | Jan 23 2023 21:35 utc | 43
@ Ed | Jan 23 2023 17:16 utc | 7
That’s pretty compelling evidence that he’s paid to be here.
Posted by: malenkov | Jan 23 2023 21:42 utc | 44
There is a major difference between the US and Europe which is that most americans dont take their msm serious anymore. Almost everybody understands the game by now. Msnbc, cnn, fox, nyt etc. There is zero trust and even those who do still watch understand that they are fed democrat or republican propaganda. The only exception i come along are the "highly educated". I would bet by now that there are more people in europe who believe that cnn is a news agency than in the US.
Its curious that most europeans not only trust their national broadcaster but more so are convinced that cnn, nyt et all are objective news. They know that fox is bad but think that all the others are neutral.
It seems that it is much harder to distrust your national broadcaster. It really seems to me that the acknowledgement that the bbc or rai is lying is the same as acknowledging that your government and state as a whole has gone badshitcrazy.
While its easier to call out any of the US media propaganda outlets because they are after all just companies that act in the name of whoever pays them.
The us is decades ahead when it comes to distrusting the media.
Posted by: Orgel | Jan 23 2023 21:54 utc | 45
Get well soon Patroklos. Treat it as just a nasty flu, which is probably all it is.
To help rapid recovery, put 30 grams (sic!) of sodium ascorbate (easily-taken form of vitamin C) in a jug of water, stir well, take a mouthful every half hour, round the clock. Repeat each twenty-four hours, as needed: thirty grams a day. Usually a single day is enough to get well again. Maximum ever for me has been three days of being VERY SLIGHTLY under par, before full recovery. That was in 2020 when the - alleged - covid 'pandemic' hit.
Just this C treatmen, plus solid daily doses of vitamin D, plus a well-tended internal terrain, has kept me free of respiratory illnesses for nearly thirty years now. Affected with ever so tentative early-warning symptomettes - the usual things - every flu season... BUT... never ill with it, once it's blasted with mega-C dosing. I'm now in my eighty-third year, and completely unconcerned about 'killer respiratory diseases'.
Posted by: Rhisiart Gwilym | Jan 23 2023 22:03 utc | 46
From Dances With Bears…
A fresh German general has issued a public warning that the war on the Ukrainian battlefield by the US and NATO armies is lost, and that Germany will be lost next if the advance of the Russian forces toward Kiev and Lvov isn’t halted quickly by an armistice, partition and demilitarization of the Ukraine, and time to rebuild the German army.
Posted by: nwwoods | Jan 23 2023 22:06 utc | 47
thanks b... you nailed it in this one sentence ----->
"We know that 'U.S. intelligence' is bullshit and that U.S. official are liars, especially with regards to anything around Ukraine."
Posted by: james | Jan 23 2023 22:08 utc | 49
judging by the number of posters who replied to the dipshit, i would say he's been quite successful... is that what you all wanted??
@ Ed | Jan 23 2023 17:16 utc | 7 //// various colin posts
b says to ignore the trolls... i wish folks would do this.. the thread is ruined because so many have replied including me indirectly..
Posted by: james | Jan 23 2023 22:15 utc | 50
@24
"Welcome to the new age of believing! Say goodbye to the age of enlightenment. We have lost the truth and the ability to agree on facts. We are losing exact language as well, which causes difficulty in thinking precisely..."
Bravo!
Language evolves, certainly, and that keeps it alive, but exact language is indeed the basis of manifesting thought. Language has become malleable and definitions are arbitrarily changed at the bidding of the powerful. Unfortunately people accept this.
As we lose the ability to speak, we lose the ability to think. It all becomes a blur. Words like gay, vaccine, sex, gender, isolation, effective... and a legion more lose all meaning.
Posted by: john dann | Jan 23 2023 22:15 utc | 51
It’s not like they’re still running Gladio.
Sure, it’s the Russians.
Posted by: Cato the Uncensored | Jan 23 2023 22:20 utc | 52
Trolls: I usually check the identity of the poster before choosing to read a given post, and if the poster is identifiable as an already known NAFO incel…I scroll right on by.
Posted by: nwwoods | Jan 23 2023 22:22 utc | 53
Why they bother pretending to know certain things and pretend not to know an entire raft of other things which leave lie to their media BS, I wonder about much these days, as everything, everything we are told to believe is a lie. Hardly a soul I know in the circle of life puts any credence in the legacy media complex or its skin suit satellite conduits. I mean they whatc and listen to everything we all do, they got to know any decent honest jpe trusts a word from them. So why bother, right? zOf course its to create fake pretense for something else equally or more dishonest or evil. But the whole false flag thing is pretty much a nasty old stinky hat nowadays, they false flag everything too. And the whole theater of plausible deniability, thats a joke too.
Like Alexsandr Solzhenitsyn put it about how "we know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, we know they know we know they are lying". Any person with a critical thinking brain cell knows everything comes out of their lying mouths is more or less some form of dissimulation or altering the truth to fit a desired narrative. Never mind the manipulative and weaponization/politicization of everything, how nothing can be sacred. They Can Not tell the truth at all, even by mistake now, cause they lie about everything.
Frankly I have zero use for any of it, have become so attuned to the slightest BS, its become a given if their lips are moving or their fingers are typing they are lying. And after a time when you no longer tune in or be a victim of this weaponization of all the things it really stands out, I mean it glows how maliciously dishonest and manipulative it all is.
It becomes a question of are they beginning to believe their own lies now, because it surely has that stink to it all, like its themselves who have brainwashed themselves and certainly the in grouping aspect of it, if your not a true believer, or employing the victim stance, you got social or raaaycist or cis or something leprosy.
The whole thing is like mercury poisoned mad hatters association, the cognitive dissonance needs new definitions and references its gone to such extremes, and it looks like its not near topping out either. Thats scary right there, because some of them may have access to nooklear codes or loose/lost nukes. They been waving that carrot stick, keeps popping up from one dark corner or crevice of what operates along the fringes of the shadows thats behind everything, like beta case-ing it. They all always project. So you know its a very real possibility, because when the realities of war fail to match their false narratives, whats left when you have stripped the arsenals of the west but dial a bombs and methods of delivery?
The whole thing is total madness. Utterly out of control. Why they pretend now must mean something thats not any good at all.
Posted by: mtnforge | Jan 23 2023 22:52 utc | 54
"b has always urged commenters to ignore trolls - meaning don't respond to them or acknowledge, or refer to, them or their remarks. It is the most consistently effective way to make them feel unwanted."
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 23 2023 18:26 utc | 19
------------------------------------
I did not name any troll specifically or by name (at least not this time), but like b, I only acknowledged that they post on the MoA site. But one must admit that if the little buggers are allowed to lie and misdirect with impunity, they have accomplished at least a part of their goal. Also, some of them are just so easy to take down.
Still, you and b are correct if they correct, assuming that the Trolls just get bored and go away.
Posted by: Ed | Jan 23 2023 23:00 utc | 55
I really find it difficult to believe that a “troll” would actually be paid to post here! Where can one apply for such work?
While it can be irritating, it does provide some comic relief as mentioned above! I think it’s a healthy practice to learn to bite ones tongue or show restraint, or just overlook it. Not always easy to do.
A good way to practice is to check out the comment section of “yahoo” news. Just about everyone is a troll there, or there getting good practice to come to sites like moa! The name “yahoo” fits theses characters as well as trolls. . .bunch of yahoos!
Posted by: Geoff | Jan 23 2023 23:09 utc | 56
The Empire is in a state of hysteria. The Empire is in meltdown. After all these years and coup d'etats they have finally met an opponent who is as powerful as they are. Do these ultra rich folk really want to die to preserve their hegemony or are they just bullies who buckle knowing that they and their kids and grandkids have as much wealth as they can manage?
No, no nuclear meltdown this time around.
Posted by: Janitor | Jan 23 2023 23:19 utc | 57
Geoff @ 56:
A lot of trolls infesting the MoA comments threads appear to be quite young. They start out by posting quite sophisticated and convincing arguments but then they quickly degenerate into name-calling, insults and abuse. They flood the site with second-hand information that they don't link to or acknowledge the source of, and no longer care to debate with other commenters. They may be undergraduate college or university students desperate for money to pay tuition fees. That could explain the trajectory of typical troll behaviour here.
Who their employers are - now that's the really interesting issue. I suspect the people who employ trolls to infest sites like MoA are government intel agencies like GCHQ in the UK or Army Reserve units like the 77th Brigade (also in the UK) and their equivalents in other countries.
The trolling behaviour I just described may change though, now that AI tools like ChatGPT are available. Trolls could use ChatGPT to make up trolling comment that most of us could mistake easily for comment by a real person. Most of us who read MoA do so fairly quickly and cursorily, and don't necessarily remember which name belongs to a real person and which to a troll. We may think that a comments thread has quite good commentary when in fact the thread could be made up of comments created by AI.
Posted by: Jen | Jan 23 2023 23:37 utc | 58
As I've said before, the likelihood is that many, if not most, of these trolls are Ukrainian-American Democrats (or Ukrainian-Canadians) of the sort that infest Twitter with their BS. The Democratic party has many Ukrainian-Americans, such as Alexandra Chalupa and her sister who were directly involved in Russiagate along with the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington, and who may in fact have actually been the ones who thought up the idea of blaming the Wikileaks email leak on Russia.
All these dual-identity clowns should be deported back to Ukraine and sent to the front lines. As US citizens, they are traitors to the United States electorate. The Canadian ones should be deported as well for the same reasons vis-a-vis Canada.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jan 23 2023 23:54 utc | 59
Posted by: Jen | Jan 23 2023 23:37 utc | 58
Good point about ChatGPT. I haven't experimented with that yet. It's rapidly becoming a hacking tool, as well.
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jan 23 2023 23:56 utc | 60
The NYTs article included author Eric Schmitt who wrote fake news stories about Russian bounties on US troops in Afghanistan and is connected to CNAS - Center for New American Security - a MIC funded thinktank.
Posted by: James McFadden | Jan 24 2023 0:02 utc | 61
These ops in Southern Europe are always by the usual suspects: the USA. Operation gládio reactivated.
Posted by: Isabel | Jan 24 2023 0:24 utc | 62
As Caitlin Johnstone has said, what is asserted without evidence can be discounted without evidence. She also explains the Narrative Matrix controlled by Plutocratic and Military Institutions who have created an ILLUSION of democracy.
Posted by: Longtrail | Jan 24 2023 1:35 utc | 63
@All
Trolls just gotta troll. Actually many shills here and everywhere are definitely part of a concerted effort to dilute fervent opinion as most commenters are very knowledgeable as they read and research topics that are near and dear to their hearts.
These constant contrarian attacks are synonymous with DoS tactics to disrupt and divert quality observations and opinions that all swim the same way and are self-enforcing. The troll's managers can't have that.
Do not feed the trolls. They want to Vanilla-ize every board/alt-site.
Posted by: safe | Jan 24 2023 1:50 utc | 64
As a measure of their effectiveness at disruption, look no further than this comment section in which the designated subject of the ongoing situation in Ukraine became all about trolls.
We the suckers are giving them precisely what they seek.
Posted by: nwwoods | Jan 24 2023 2:13 utc | 65
Patroklos @ 27:
The advice from Rhisiart Gwylim @ 46 is well worth following. Plenty of Vitamin C and D if you can get some and try to spend as much time out in the sun if possible.
If you are interested in taking herbs, astragalus, milk thistle and fennel may be helpful. Milk thistle and fennel tea and astragalus supplements (Armaforce?) may be available at health food stores and discount pharmacies.
Posted by: Jen | Jan 24 2023 2:18 utc | 66
Biden's geopolitics blunders will be written about in history books.
if EU confiscates Russian assets, that day WW3 start date becomes inked in blood.
Then there is no way to normalize relations ever, without a war to decide who owes what to who. Before doing any deal, the Russian govt is going to say "give me back the money you confiscated illegally". And given that multiple EU heads of state have confirmed they negotiated in bad faith to foment a war later. So they are responsible for the war as well.
Posted by: cafe con leche | Jan 24 2023 2:41 utc | 67
There's half a dozen trolls that I completely ignore and refuse to read their regurgitated shit....not so hard to do when you recognise them for the useful idiots they are....they're a waste of time
Posted by: Sisofia | Jan 24 2023 3:18 utc | 68
I totally agree with the nationalization of pharmaceutical companies, but there is a real problem with vaccines as there is with the police.
The worse of the two main types of vaccines in China are made by completely privately owned companies.
Posted by: Colin | Jan 24 2023 3:37 utc | 69
Whether probable troll or mere NY Times subscriber here for the first time, the response to a canned NATO narrative can be a canned response: Thanks for your comment, see our FAQ and history links on [e.g.] why this is really the U.S. and NATO's war in Ukraine, not Russia's...
Nothing more is needed, nor anything less - new visitors should not think we have no answers to the NATO narratives. I volunteer to make the FAQ if nobody else wants to... one of these days.
TM
Posted by: TM | Jan 24 2023 3:48 utc | 70
all the propaganda in the world can't refute analysts like b and Brian Berletic. words and photoshopped images vs tanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9MMPHd8Bwk
Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 24 2023 4:23 utc | 71
Maybe minimal acknowledgement of the Troll's "contribution" could be made to remind others that an effort is being made to ignore that person. The next comment afterward -- or the next few comments -- could start with something brief in square brackets: "[Troll duly ignored @ 68]" Better than pretending _nothing's_ been said, which might be confusing to some...
Posted by: Jimm | Jan 24 2023 4:32 utc | 72
Wonderful advice from a great bunch, thanks again. Definitely have the C and D pumping away. I've got some high level Manuka honey going as well. Jen: will get onto those herbs too!
Posted by: Patroklos | Jan 24 2023 5:57 utc | 73
@ Patroklos | Jan 24 2023 5:57 utc | 73
be well... you're a real asset here at moa..
Posted by: james | Jan 24 2023 6:07 utc | 74
Still, you and b are correct if they correct, assuming that the Trolls just get bored and go away.
Posted by: Ed | Jan 23 2023 23:00 utc | 55
My comment wasn't a rebuke. There was a looming troll problem and your comment contained the briefest mention of 'trolls'. So I bounced a "don't feed the troll" reminder off it.
Imo, if trolls feel completely invisible, they tend to ramp up the rhetoric and get themselves bañned.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 24 2023 6:09 utc | 75
Posted by: Patroklos | Jan 23 2023 21:09 utc | 41
Aha. Just try to get through it with minimal medication (if possible). I'm dreading catching it in the next three days due to a scheduled colonoscopy (for some pretty worrisome reasons, not just routine), so my thoughts are with you. As others have stated, your presence here is much appreciated.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 24 2023 7:46 utc | 77
Re: AI aka ChatGPT.
The potential of this AI program cropped up during abc.net.au news roundup program The Drum yesterday. One member of the panel pointed out that Chat is triggered by keywords. BUT it uses the common meaning of the keyword and does NOT take ironic/sarcastic/creative misuse of the keyword into account.
The result, combined with chosen passages from the text reproduced for relevance, can be totally irrelevant to the details/context of the text to which Chat is responding. Several hilarious examples were given during the segment.
Like cheap energy from Nuclear Fusion here on Earth, AI seems to be a "work in progress" for which PERFECTION will always be 20 years away...
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 24 2023 7:51 utc | 78
@james and Tom Q Collins
Right back at you. On the colonoscopy front I'm sure it will go fine. That's one thing they've got down now. The worst thing is that stuff you take beforehand! Sending power to you from the antipodes.
Posted by: Patroklos | Jan 24 2023 8:38 utc | 79
Posted by: Jen | Jan 23 2023 23:37 utc | 58
A lot of trolls infesting the MoA comments threads appear to be quite young. They start out by posting quite sophisticated and convincing arguments but then they quickly degenerate into name-calling, insults and abuse.
So far, only my detractors have resorted to name calling, such as comment @53 calling me a "NAFO incel"
I understand some people here react violently to having their echo chamber penetrated, but they will have to learn to control their emotions.
Posted by: Bernd | Jan 24 2023 9:23 utc | 80
Patrokolos, I wish you a quick and complete recovery. Since naturopathic advice for Covid creeped into this thread, I’ll toss in a bit more. Based on my experience, two important supplements are probiotics (in place of antibiotics, a naturopathic swap), and most importantly, a full-spectrum mineral supplement. I’d advise caution with taking herbs, or even a very powerful probiotic, for the first time while testing positive for Covid. There is a time for experimentation and there is a time for a more cautionary approach.
Appreciate your mention of Manuka honey, there’s a powerful natural antibiotic right there! And it’s safe to take, I think, for those taking medications like for high blood pressure, etc.
Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Jan 24 2023 10:09 utc | 81
@ Bernd | Jan 24 2023 9:23 utc | 80
Are you bored Bernd? Don't you have any friends? Do you suffer of Anerkennungsdefizit (recognition lack)? You should try to get interested in aeromodelling. You can make a lot of friends on the specialised sites. Here on MoA, frankly, you won't get the recognition you come begging for.
Start with Ghost of Kiev’s MiG-29:
...so that your so interesting, so original opinions will arouse the interest, and perhaps the admiration!, if not of ladies (there are few on these sites), at least of potential friends.
I hope I have contributed to your pursuit of happiness.
Posted by: Leuk | Jan 24 2023 10:25 utc | 82
I find hard to believe that Russia would spend any effort on directing far right extremists in Spain (who, by the way?), as thankfully our government is doing very little to aid Ukraine with war material.
Posted by: Galahad | Jan 24 2023 11:17 utc | 83
A rather good, I thought, discussion of China and what is going with regard to Russia and USA, talks over Medvedev's visit with Xi a while back, Russia-China relations, and China USA prospects:
On the first steps of the People’s Republic of China’s updated foreign leadership policy
Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 24 2023 12:11 utc | 84
Posted by: Bernd | Jan 24 2023 9:23 utc | 80
I don't think she was referring to you. the clue lies the phrase "They start out by posting quite sophisticated and convincing arguments"...I've never seen you do that, or seen anybody accuse you of doing that.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 24 2023 12:23 utc | 85
Having lived in USA for several years I doubt I shall ever visit. It seems a weird country with the sort of paranoia you would have associated with Yezhov or Beria.
The capricious nature of the Secret Police and the judicial system with its contracts with private prisons may Russia seem more predictable. The US is run by an occupying force trying to keep control through Cultural Revolution and Witch-hunts
The population control faces a disoriented and bewildered population lacking focus to overthrow tyranny. Constant threat alerts and hunts for Russians is hysterical as is the Anti-Muslim propaganda from Streaming Network TV
US population is being tormented like caged battery hens
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jan 24 2023 15:06 utc | 86
Colin [69]
You must be very uninformed
EVERY so-called vaccine was FUNDED by the Government using taxpayer money. Trump paid development costs and for filling lines in USA and tried to corner production in Europe
German regime funded BioNTech
British regime funded Astra-Zeneca
France funded Sanofi
It was GOVERNMENT that wanted mRNA
U.K. has just attracted BioNTech research into cancer drugs using mRNA to U.K. from Germany by paying taxpayer money
It is The State that used Big Pharma to implement a Defence Program to mass medicate populations for Biowarfare
Ralph Baric worked on bio-weapons of which mRNA is a component. Big Pharma were contractors using US and Canadia Government patents to make gene therapies
The aim was to mass test mRNA drugs by injecting masses of people and keeping track of health impact
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jan 24 2023 15:15 utc | 87
Well said, Paul 87.
The 'US Officials claim....' type statement has been used to justify everything from the faux WoT to Climategate to Project SARS Fear to Nuclear Putin to.....whatever. The psyop is limitless.
No doubts at all about that.
Posted by: Merkin Scot | Jan 24 2023 16:32 utc | 88
@ Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 24 2023 7:46 utc | 77
i hope all goes well with you in that... cheers..
@ Paul Greenwood | Jan 24 2023 15:15 utc | 87
thanks for saying all that..
Posted by: james | Jan 24 2023 16:39 utc | 89
At this point whenever a conversation starts with "A non attributed U.S. officials said" it is hard not to think of redneck jokes. For example: A genie comes upon an non attributed U.S. official and .....
Posted by: ATM | Jan 27 2023 16:04 utc | 90
The comments to this entry are closed.
Russiagate is one of the worst groupthink phenomena I have seen during my lifetime. The complete lack of evidence doesn't faze many people. Some will go so far as to accuse you of siding with Putin, just for insisting on proof. Western culture is so broken
Posted by: Chris N | Jan 23 2023 16:34 utc | 1