Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
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January 23, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-21
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Most recent Douglas Macgregor analysis: Posted by: upsetter | Jan 23 2023 16:37 utc | 1 @ Old Microbiologist | Jan 23 2023 8:17 utc | 216 – on the last open ukraine thread.. thanks for that post.. brilliant and i learned a lot from it.. thanks.. Posted by: james | Jan 23 2023 16:38 utc | 2 very relevant article from indian punchline Posted by: james | Jan 23 2023 16:50 utc | 3 @ 3 Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 23 2023 16:57 utc | 4 Made Official. Said out Loud. The war is real. No longer a hybrid. Negotiations to end it is not an option as prohibited in UKR law.
AND when diplomats are expelled
Three weeks into Q1 2023, the unusually warm winter is begining to feel like August. August 1939…Breakdown of diplomacy, war the extension of. Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 23 2023 17:02 utc | 5 @ Don Bacon | Jan 23 2023 16:57 utc | 4 Posted by: james | Jan 23 2023 17:12 utc | 6 Translated: If I were a head of Baltic midget state that has significant Russian population which I abuse, I would be very very careful what to do next. Seems like 404 virus can spread around, countries just go poof! Posted by: Abe | Jan 23 2023 17:16 utc | 8 @ Likklemore | Jan 23 2023 17:02 utc | 5 Posted by: james | Jan 23 2023 17:18 utc | 9 Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 23 2023 17:02 utc | 5 Posted by: GT Stroller | Jan 23 2023 17:22 utc | 10
How long does a direct NATO-Russia war needs to go nuclear? Days? Weeks? Months? Posted by: Vikichka | Jan 23 2023 17:26 utc | 11 “…has been subzero in northern England for most of the last three weeks.” Posted by: mauro | Jan 23 2023 17:33 utc | 12 More comedy, you can’t make this up. First, a 26-yeare-old Wagner ‘commander deserts and makes a dramatic escape to Norway. Now he has been arrested for some sort of disagreement with his hosts. To be deported, or not to be deported? Seems to feel that a sledgehammer or similar implement awaits his return to Russia. But wait, he has Much Important Information to give on Wagner and its presumed leader. Perhaps he should call himself Curveball and go to Sleepy Schmo Joe. Posted by: DilNir | Jan 23 2023 17:45 utc | 14 Who wants Leopard 2s and F-18s? No, hand over A-10s, F-22s, F-35s. Hell, give them anything. It won’t make any difference. Posted by: DilNir | Jan 23 2023 17:52 utc | 15 14 Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Jan 23 2023 17:54 utc | 16 Price Cap on Russian Oil.
Price cap by the G7 idiots. Allows the collective west G7 misleading main street that price cap reduces Russia revenues. Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 23 2023 17:54 utc | 17 Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 23 2023 17:02 utc | 5 Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jan 23 2023 18:20 utc | 18 @mauro | Jan 23 2023 17:33 utc | 12
-13.5C in Southern Norway today. So much for warm winter. Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 23 2023 18:22 utc | 19 There’s fuckery afoot: Posted by: Irish | Jan 23 2023 18:34 utc | 20 @ 10
It’s from Wapo. Ignore the tie into global warming. BBC also ran a piece on the unusually warm winter. Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 23 2023 18:42 utc | 21 Just posted an important breaking news story on the tail end of the last Uqraine thread. Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 23 2023 18:43 utc | 22 @Irish | Jan 23 2023 18:34 utc | 20
Reality check https://www.windy.com/50.450/30.520?temp,49.665,31.405,6 Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 23 2023 18:51 utc | 23 USUKIS looking to pick a fight. The Plymouth Brethren say our excuse is that Britain hated Celts, Britain says its excuse is everybody hates us because we are Vikings. Israel says its excuse is everybody hates us because we are Khazars. Posted by: Giyane | Jan 23 2023 18:59 utc | 24 Today Putin addressed the EAEU heads of state as Russia is the EAEU’s 2023 president. And what’s stressed is “harmonization” of the UNION in all areas, but the socio-economic most importantly. Recall Iran with its free trade deal is now a de facto EAEU member with India soon to follow. IMO, it’s paramount that Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan cease their quarrel over the Fergana Valley and treat it along with Uzbekistan as common territory for the quarrel only serves to divert resources, generate animosity instead of solidarity and stifle greatly needed development. Yes, that’s easy to write yet hard to implement after decades of strife caused by Stalin who formed the borders there. Putin is Gung-ho as this excerpt suggests:
As I’ve mentioned before, Putin’s vision is to build a different type of Soviet Union that was previously always possible but never put into practice primarily because of political corruption generated by the age-old habits of elites. Most of those people have now passed from the scene and the newer generation seems to have learned what to do and what not to do. We shall see how well the lessons were learned over the next several years. IMO, a supranational form of nationalism formed around the idea of Eurasia needs to be promoted so the smaller nations won’t feel being overshadowed by Russia, India and China. At the same time, there are examples of what not to do provided by the EU that need to be heeded, one of which Putin seems well aware of and that’s to avoid forming a political union that suppresses the sovereignty of Union members. Posted by: Stavrogin | Jan 23 2023 17:33 utc | 13
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/30294 Posted by: Down South | Jan 23 2023 19:07 utc | 26 Over +20°C in the middle of January is simply extraordinary for this part of the world. Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jan 23 2023 19:08 utc | 27 Kohlberg Kravis Roberts-tabloid “Bild” agitates against SPD chairman Rolf Mützenich, who opposes tank-deliveries to Ukraine: https://www.bild.de/politik/2023/politik/spd-fraktions-chef-rolf-muetzenich-die-panzersperre-der-nation-82651554.bild.html Posted by: Apollyon | Jan 23 2023 19:12 utc | 28 current weather Looks like cold air from the north is currently blocked from moving into portions of Europe. Not sure how persistent the current pattern will be. Posted by: the pessimist | Jan 23 2023 19:22 utc | 29 MI6 claims that Russia is planning to destroy the Dniper bridges. It’s about time. Posted by: Catdog | Jan 23 2023 19:23 utc | 30 @ Greg Galloway | Jan 23 2023 18:20 utc | 18 Posted by: whirlX | Jan 23 2023 19:23 utc | 31 Arestovich is giving several interviews now that he is a non person…. stating the Russian SMO was an attempt at a bloodless operation where kittens were not to hurt. Etc…. Russian intelligence may have miscalculated the local reception to Russian forces Posted by: Joe | Jan 23 2023 19:26 utc | 32 Barflies talking about a comment that I missed from Old Microbiologist make me want to go and look for it. Posted by: chunga | Jan 23 2023 19:34 utc | 33 Lavrov’s in South Africa and eld”>https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/1849352/”>eld a presser after his talks today. Lavrov’s statement regarding the status of relations was very positive:
There’s more than just the above highlights. The Q&A portion featured yet more repetition of the same old stuff regarding Ukraine that most barflies know by now. Lavrov specifically took to task a representative of the UK Daily Mirror over the years of propaganda surrounding Ukraine and concluded,
Together, Russia and China are working to finish the liberation of Africa. How to tailor Africa’s development while preserving Africa’s natural heritage presents a challenge as much depends on the attitudes of Africans, and as Lavrov noted Africans are very diverse. James – Thanks Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Jan 23 2023 19:37 utc | 35 Macgregor thinks offensive will start within a week, during dark of moon. Posted by: rk | Jan 23 2023 19:38 utc | 36 Question: Posted by: Irish | Jan 23 2023 19:39 utc | 38 Blitzkrieg (def. update): Posted by: Elmagnostic | Jan 23 2023 19:42 utc | 39 Aleph_Null@27….watching a recent monkeywerx blog he names three civilian companies in the US that all perform contract weather modification over the US. Looking at the areas affected esp mid US, might be enough to push or manipulate the PV. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jan 23 2023 19:42 utc | 40 So, re: all this excellent weather talk, Posted by: Irish | Jan 23 2023 19:47 utc | 41 Old Microbiologist @35 and previous thread– TL&DR Time approaching to unleash the Dogs of War ? RF has overwhelming conventional forces, should it decide to execute … Irish @41– Best case scenario: Russia keeps slowly taking territory, rebuilding most everything it takes. The US gets bored with the conflict, declares victory, and moves on. Posted by: Woke American | Jan 23 2023 20:02 utc | 45 upsetter @ 1
Thanks, great stuff maybe the best I’ve heard yet from MacGregor. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 23 2023 20:02 utc | 46 Not the Onion.
https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1617488784815423489
https://t.me/azmilitary11/34618 Posted by: Down South | Jan 23 2023 20:05 utc | 48 Estonia plans to close the Gulf of Finland for russia, Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Reinsalu says. Posted by: unimperator | Jan 23 2023 20:05 utc | 49 The two maps of bridges I mentioned in @47 unimperator | Jan 23 2023 20:05 utc | 49 Today, Military Summary (Dima) says that Russia has stopped in the South. Posted by: solgar | Jan 23 2023 20:13 utc | 52 @ Outraged | Jan 23 2023 19:54 utc | 43 Posted by: whirlX | Jan 23 2023 20:16 utc | 53 @ Stonebird | Jan 23 2023 20:06 utc | 50 Posted by: Irish | Jan 23 2023 20:17 utc | 54 @ Irish | Jan 23 2023 19:39 utc | 38 -6 degrees today where we live in the UK, which is colder than average, more freezing air arriving after a few days of warmer weather. I don’t think the thaw will help Ukraine, Russia has been talking up the problems but I think it’s partly misdirection. If there is an offensive I agree that unused technology will be used to blind/jam the NATO Ukrainian ISR, for a critical time window of between 48-72 hours. Russia will also it’s Strategic Air Forces, to directly aid the offensive and attack with a concentration of force using regimental and divisional assets, perhaps reviving RAGs and DAGs. Note to NATO: game changing weapon systems only have a limited timespan to maximise their force-multiplying abilities, before they begin to be countered. I also expect Russian vehicles to be sporting armour upgrades after reverse engineering NATO AT weapons, captured or bought since the conflict began. Posted by: Milites | Jan 23 2023 20:25 utc | 56 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2023 19:54 utc | 43 Posted by: unimperator | Jan 23 2023 20:28 utc | 57 Someone has some explaining to do. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Jan 23 2023 20:29 utc | 58 ” I don’t think the thaw will help Ukraine, Russia has been talking up the problems but I think it’s partly misdirection. Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Jan 23 2023 20:32 utc | 59 @ james 9 Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 23 2023 20:38 utc | 60 “A merger between EAEU and ASEAN” damn, what a stupid idea. South Asia isn’t even part of the Eurasian landmass, there has never been even the slightest hint of this” merger” ( and btw, what would that even have do with any “Soviet Union” that Putin supposedly want to create ?). This is what you get when you type without thinking at all. There will be no “Eur(south)asia”. also, the idea of creating “nationalism” by using economic unions is doomed to fail, differences between nations (languages, cultures etc…) cannot be overcome this way, that was an awful idea. The only “Eurasia” as a unity/country possible would unite only Russia, Kazakhstan, Belarus and Kyrgyzstan which are the closest post soviet republics. Neither Uzbekistan ( which threatened to cut relations with Belarus after Lukashenko suggested it) nor Turkmenistan/ Azerbaijan would want to be in it. Posted by: Phariah | Jan 23 2023 20:40 utc | 61 Erdogan just said Sweden can forget Turkey ratifying their Nato membership, after burning the Quran. Posted by: unimperator | Jan 23 2023 20:41 utc | 62 Irish | Jan 23 2023 20:17 utc | 54 Looks like the remaining wheels are coming off… Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jan 23 2023 20:55 utc | 64 @Opport Knocks | Jan 23 2023 20:55 utc | 64 Posted by: the pessimist | Jan 23 2023 20:58 utc | 65 “Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2023 17:15 utc | 7” Posted by: Dalit | Jan 23 2023 20:59 utc | 66 Orban is secure and faces little risk in the next election unless something really bad happens. I think he is predicting the downfall of the leaders of the EU Commission and may get some relief after the leaders of most EU countries either get replaced internally by the voters or something worse. Orban is at high risk of assassination by the US though. The same for Vuvic and Erdogan. The neocon rules mandate you are either with us or against us and there are no limits to what the US will try against perceived enemies. Our new President of Hungary is equal to the task and I am delighted to see her in this position. Posted by: Old Microbiologist | Jan 23 2023 20:59 utc | 67 karlof1@25 Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 23 2023 21:02 utc | 68 From RT opinion piece on Wagner group ‘terrorist’ designation: Posted by: the pessimist | Jan 23 2023 21:14 utc | 69 Of course the US is the Nord Stream saboteur. Posted by: Elmagnostic | Jan 23 2023 21:14 utc | 70 Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 23 2023 19:00 utc | 25 One of the most nonsensical/ridiculous comments I,ve ever seen on this site. Posted by: Phariah | Jan 23 2023 21:15 utc | 71 Posted by: unimperator | Jan 23 2023 20:05 utc | 49 Posted by: Abe | Jan 23 2023 21:17 utc | 72 Is there some competition going on “who will start war with Russia next” we don’t know about? Has Estonia some insider information? Posted by: Abe | Jan 23 2023 21:19 utc | 73 Within minutes of the NordStream explosions, the guy who thanked USA has again unzipped his lips.
You bet it remains on the agenda. Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 23 2023 21:24 utc | 74 @Abe | Jan 23 2023 21:19 utc | 73 Posted by: the pessimist | Jan 23 2023 21:25 utc | 75 irish@38 Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 23 2023 21:28 utc | 76 Smells like a civil war or infighting in Ukraine. Something strange is happening, some politicians appear to want to flee the sinking ship and have resigned en masse, but the security apparatus doesn’t want to allow anyone to go. Posted by: Boo | Jan 23 2023 21:28 utc | 77 Passing this on…not sure what to make of it yet if it turns out accurate.
Hmm
Posted by: knighthawk | Jan 23 2023 21:30 utc | 78 @ Dalit | Jan 23 2023 20:59 utc | 66 Phariah @61– @ Old Microbiologist | Jan 23 2023 20:59 utc | 67 Posted by: whirlX | Jan 23 2023 21:43 utc | 81 ” From RT opinion piece on Wagner group ‘terrorist’ designation: Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Jan 23 2023 21:44 utc | 82 ” A question that’s dogged me ever since Russia’s December 2021 security proposals remains: What will Russia do when the Outlaw US Empire/NATO say no as will surely be done to removing their missiles from Poland and Romania? Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Jan 23 2023 21:48 utc | 83 Karlof1 – my suggestions is SMOs for the other unfriendly former Soviet SSRs with Russian-speaking minorities (Baltics and Moldova, maybe some of the Caucuses and Central Asian ones if needed). I do believe the Russian-speaking minorities in these countries are waiting with bated breath for the Ukraine SMO to conclude so that they can free from the yoke of NATOstan as soon as possible. NATO is going to scream ethnic cleansing either way (as they are doing about Ukraine), so might as well allow some good to come of it. Posted by: R3DP1LL3R | Jan 23 2023 21:49 utc | 84 There is an interesting article from Kiev Independent which cannot be labeled as pro-Russian where loss of Soledar and dangers to Bakhmut are acknowledged. Posted by: Curious Russian | Jan 23 2023 21:49 utc | 85 karlof1 | Jan 23 2023 19:53 utc | 42 Posted by: Melaleuca | Jan 23 2023 21:51 utc | 86 unimperator@49 Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 23 2023 21:55 utc | 87 Good point Melaleauca (#86) Posted by: R3DP1LL3R | Jan 23 2023 21:56 utc | 88 aristodemos @76– solgar @52 Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 23 2023 21:58 utc | 90 whirlX @53 Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 23 2023 22:01 utc | 91 Resignations are expected in the Presidential Office and the government in the near future. These include Deputy Head of the Presidential Administration Kyrylo Tymoshenko and Energy Minister Herman Halushchenko. Posted by: La Bastille | Jan 23 2023 22:01 utc | 92 ” I know many secrets that are very upsetting for the Americans. I have witnesses who remember how CIA officials trained Osama Bin Laden and brought bags of money and weapons to ISIS in Syria and other countries. They were preparing outlaws and terrorists all over the world so that there would be trouble everywhere – in Europe, Africa, Asia, South America. ” – Yevgeny Prigozhin Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Jan 23 2023 22:07 utc | 93 Smoking Guns & Thorns of Roses Posted by: La Bastille | Jan 23 2023 22:11 utc | 94 knighthawk | Jan 23 2023 21:30 utc | 78 Posted by: Melaleuca | Jan 23 2023 22:12 utc | 95 Karloff!@80 Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 23 2023 22:13 utc | 96 can anyone confirm that earlier today Posted by: Jo | Jan 23 2023 22:21 utc | 97 R3DP1LL3R @84 & 88– More Ghosts of Posted by: La Bastille | Jan 23 2023 22:23 utc | 99 “Ideally, NATO would disintegrate, but IMO it will take more than Turkey and Hungary leaving to cause that to occur. Ideas? Posted by: Pdidds | Jan 23 2023 22:25 utc | 100 |
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