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January 22, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-20
Comments
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 23 2023 16:43 utc | 292
Patrick Lancaster is IMO definitely the best one of the lot.
Posted by: Arganthonios | Jan 23 2023 17:28 utc | 301
@ Down South [219]
I also saw this story of Ukies storing Western weapons it nuclear power plants, and specifically Rovno.
The IAEA has sent inspectors into Rovno before, so I hope the IAEA will carry out its mandated responsibilities and inspect all the Ukrainian NPP’s for heavy weapon storage.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Jan 23 2023 17:31 utc | 302
@ Peace [296]
“Could be wrong, Russia might drop a nuclear bomb on the border crossing areas to stop transports.”
You are either a troll or terminally stupid. Russia has a strategic posture of never being the first to use nuclear weapons – unlike Washington. You must know that, if you have gotten far enough along, to be posting on Moon Of Alabama.
Russia has the conventional means to stop weapons going into the Ukraine. So far, Russia is only fighting with about 15% of its real strength. Russia is not the least bit desperate, unlike the West.
No need to bring that stinky Kool-Aid into this bar.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Jan 23 2023 17:40 utc | 303
@Apollyon | Jan 23 2023 13:33 utc | 259
Here is the reason why the US want Germany to send Leopard tanks in Ukraine (or give other European states the permission to do so). The states who send their Leopards to Ukraine will need new tanks for their own army. But the German manufacturers can’t deliever. So the European states will order tanks from US manufacturers: “>https://www.nzz.ch/international/kampfpanzer-leopard-2-us-ruestungsinteressen-lassen-scholz-zoegern-ld.1722377
Bingo. Is this news to anyone?
Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 23 2023 17:40 utc | 304
Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 23 2023 14:08 utc | 265
But as has been established, tanks are just a puppet show,, comments here are falling for the distraction.
Nobody here except the resident trolls have fallen for the distraction (possibly not even them!).
It’s through the discourse on this forum that it’s become clear it’s a distraction.
What are we being distracted from ?
Simple. The fact that the leadership of the West has No Plan.
Desires … Yes.
Obsessions … Yes.
Fantasies and Grand Visions … Yes.
But no Plans.
What is the wests next move.
Easily predictable. The West follows the same pattern in every part of the world it destabilises:
1. Wreck Ukraine by pumping it full of weapons and promises.
2. Sanctions and Embargoes against Russia to the nth degree.
3. When Ukraine collapses, throw Poland against Russia.
4. When Poland collapses, throw Romania against Russia.
5. When Romania collapses and when the rest of Europe balks at meeting the same fate,
6. Declare mission accomplished and start trouble in the Taiwan straights to distract from the failure in Ukraine
7. Rinse, wash, repeat …
Don’t overthink it. The West has never been capable of subtlety. It’s never needed it because it’s never come up against an enemy with the firepower Russia has.
They’ve failed against lightweights like China, Iran and North Korea – that’s been the sum of all their clever “plans” to date.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 23 2023 18:14 utc | 305
@Exile | Jan 22 2023 17:56 utc | 45
Except that did not happen. Solzhenitsyn’s fables are based, not on life, but “campfire stories”.
Reuters (1974-02-06). Solzhenitsyn’s Ex‐Wife Says ‘Gulag’ Is ‘Folklore’. New York Times.
PARIS, Feb. 5 (Reuters)—Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn’s controversial new book on Soviet prison‐camps was described as “folklore” by his former wife in an interview published here today.
Natelya Reshetovskaya told the conservative newspaper Le Figaro that the book, “The Gulag Archipelago, 1918–1956,” was based on unreliable information:
She also told the newspaper’s Moscow correspondent that she was still living with Mr. Solzhenitsyn when he wrote the book and that she had typed part of it. They parted in 1970 and were subsequently divorced.
She said: “The subject of ‘Gulag Archipelago,’ as I felt at the moment when he was writing it, is not in fact the life of the country and not even the life of the camps but the folklore of the camps.”
Posted by: Hermit | Jan 23 2023 18:17 utc | 306
… the European states will order tanks from US manufacturers
Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 23 2023 17:40 utc | 304
But I thought Abrams were no use in Europe, which is why they can’t be sent to the Ukraine? These liars can’t even get their story straight!
Posted by: Pete Jones | Jan 23 2023 18:17 utc | 307
No country is enhanced, socially or culturally by too many men from other countries arriving in a town. 51% of the world population is women. Inevitably when their presence is not represented social imbalance and all its concomitant consequences emerge.
Posted by: Valerie Swales | Jan 23 2023 18:24 utc | 308
Longtime, good family friend, over for dinner. Somehow the subject of the world comes up. I wind up asking whether the opinion of Russians — approval of Putin, say, or of the SMO — whether it would matter at all to her: sixty percent, ninety percent, whatever? The unsurprising answer, given that my good friend is apparently a patriotic US American: Nope.
You’re saying the opinion of Russians doesn’t matter? Yup.
But isn’t that, you know, sort of racist?
Don’t bring up such matters with your US American friends, should you purpose to remain friends. Such a lack of interest in the Russian perspective suffuses practically all discourse out here, with eccentric exceptions huddled on remote cyberspace islands, such as Patrick Lawrence on Scheerpost.
Even historical matters such as Merkel & Hollande’s recent comments pass with scarcely a palpable ripple of notice. Eyes droop the moment something like Minsk comes up, and I’m fresh out of ideas regarding how you spark curiosity in the land of societal zombies, where a momentary eyebrow-twitch might attract insurgent suspicions, heaven forfend.
MoA is one of the few places I can still find diversity of thought. What a concept! For that I am eternally grateful to many of you, especially b.
When my old friend, or any US American, has no time, energy, or curiosity regarding the recipients of US American largesse, and when those recipients are being slaughtered in the thousands, well that’s very much who we are, culturally and traditionally: hard-wired genocidaires. Ward Churchill had an idea that openly discussing white-supremacist genocide might be a good way to avoid endless recurrence thereof (see A Little Matter of Genocide). For such modest suggestions, careers are blown to bits, here in the land of the free and the home of the brave.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jan 23 2023 18:28 utc | 309
Arch Bungle @ 305
Thanks for your reply. But—
This very momment came news confirming my earlyer comment.
I won’t / cant link —
As we speak i just listened to the BBC radio 4 news program Jan 23 2023
Please please all listen and comment and confirm what I just heard !
14 minutes into the very start of the program.
Hint… main news prog of the day saying Russia is winning the media war over Uqraine. Complete with survey. Don’t beleave me take a listen.
Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 23 2023 18:29 utc | 310
Posted by: dask | Jan 23 2023 8:28 utc | 218
…All that is needed for an SCO currency is the guarantee that it can be settled for any of the critical physical goods. …
That there is a beautiful argument for the way forward.
Posted by: chu teh | Jan 23 2023 19:10 utc | 312
@ 309
Americans like me share a common enemy with Russia and actually most of the world. That is ourselves.
We need to be FORCE FED a *MASSIVE* dose of humility and although it doesn’t sound right to flag waiving “patriots” the best thing that could happen to us would be to provoke yet another war.
And LOSE decisively.
Posted by: chunga | Jan 23 2023 19:18 utc | 313
@ David Levin | Jan 23 2023 15:42 utc | 277
Langley directly attributed ? That would be unusual.
Posted by: Outraged | Jan 23 2023 17:26 utc | 300
I believe that the page I had in mind (with Langley attributed at the upper right) is the Myrotvorets page for Eva Bartlett.
Posted by: David Levin | Jan 23 2023 19:35 utc | 314
@ Arch Bungle | Jan 23 2023 18:14 utc | 305
Quite. Yet they keep forgetting in their delusions they’re not the only actors, nor the only one with Plans, and the opponent gets a say & a turn too.
The constant irrationality and planned stepped, even phased escalations are becoming troubling.
Posted by: The Accountant | Jan 23 2023 11:29 utc | 240
Actual economics. Can you suggest me books that teaches actual economics. I tried to read ‘Capital’. I did not like Marx’s arguments presenting style, much meandering, trying too much to drill home a point, and I suspect he was trying to be funny (in the sense sneaking a joke or many in the text, which would be understood only by his secretary). The chapters almost caused brain hemorrhage in me. I do want to imbibe what Marx was trying to say, but in a straight forward way, and not skipping or subverting or misrepresenting what Marx was trying to say. Also without the jokes understood only by the secretary.
Posted by: RealBeast | Jan 23 2023 20:19 utc | 316
@304 Norwegian I actually have two questions on this:
1) If Germany is no longer making Leopard 2 tanks then why would they care that they “lose” market share to the Abrams? They’ve already sold all the Leopard 2 tanks that they are ever going to sell, irrespective of what Poland does or does not do.
2) Does the USA even make new Abrams? At all? I don’t believe so, in which case Poland will get second-hand tanks to replace their donated Leopard 2 tanks.
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Jan 23 2023 21:27 utc | 317
@ Pete Jones | Jan 23 2023 18:17 utc | 307
Lots of nice roads in Europe.
Hence Stalin’s Red Army’s first incarnation’s thousands of light narrow-tracked/wheeled “fast tanks”, BTs, “Betkas,” more of them than all other tanks in the world combined:
They’d’ve been great fun swarming around at 50-60 mph on Europe’s road-network.
Not so much so in eastern Poland and further east.
Posted by: John Kennard | Jan 23 2023 21:53 utc | 318
@ Yeah, Right | Jan 23 2023 21:27 utc | 317
Abrams are manufactured, yet normally very small quantities. Far more are actually stripped down to the base hull and essentially rebuilt as near new latest bloc upgrades on rolling cyclical basis, from oldest models in store.
Currently new production is ~15 per month, which is surge production from Mar 22, when FY 2023 was only forecast to be 22 for FY. So currently ~180 new per FY. Impressive, not. That’s about ten days losses in Ukraine during high tempo Ops.
IntelSlava is reporting the resignations of the deputy head of Zelenskiy’s office and four oblast heads, and also that massive flocks of crows are harrying Kiev (nice 9-second vid).
Posted by: John Kennard | Jan 23 2023 22:29 utc | 320
@Mark2 | Jan 23 2023 14:08 utc | 265
But as has been established, tanks are just a puppet show,, comments here are falling for the distraction.
What are we being distracted from ?
My suspicion is that the Leopard tanks are an attempt to delay Russia’s 300,000-man offensive. If that major operation were underway already, the Germans might be more easily goaded into helping the Ukraine more. But as it is, Germany is clearly indecisive, obviously conflicted internally. The Russians are therefore advised to step carefully, lest Olaf Scholtz commit his country irreversibly to anti-Russia action. So the threat of those Leopards — not the military strength of such miniscule numbers but the political effect on Germany — may be holding off Russia’s hammer blow.
Posted by: Cyril | Jan 24 2023 0:03 utc | 321
After seeing Erdogan’s Leopards getting blown to bits in Syria the nimbus of the “indefeatable” German tank was pretty much gonzo. No wonder the Americans push so hard to see them getting blown to bits by the Russians. Removing allied competition from the market was always one of their “strategies”. Besides, a Germany without any heavy weapons cannot resist it’s occupation. Not that Scholz et al would ever do anything without Washington’s approval.
Had to leave the honeypot Unz behind and go to the moon…
And thanks to whoever posted the Odysee-link to the subtitled PMC Wagner-film! Most certainly the best entertainment I had in recent times.
Posted by: Karl1906 | Jan 24 2023 4:06 utc | 322
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 23 2023 18:14 utc | 305
I don’t think NATO will push too far. While the rabies in DC (and their cronies in EU and UK) most certainly would risk it the military still has to push the buttons and pull the triggers. No matter how many genders their generals assume and dresses they wear over (and under) their uniform.
And before they risk a nuclear armageddon they’d rather throw the politicians under the bus. It’s not ACW-level (yet) but I could imagine the military putting the breaks on if things go too bad. All those veteran officers talking critical in public is a clear (first) indicator that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes and under the radar.
Posted by: Karl1906 | Jan 24 2023 4:23 utc | 323
IntelRepublic on telegram is reporting that the “White House may announce the transfer of a significant number of Abrams tanks to Kiev this week.”
Posted by: Kadath | Jan 24 2023 15:55 utc | 324
Dima from the military summary channel has a interesting assessment of the current wave of Ukraine resignations, terminations and “accidents” that have been occurring this week while taking to Gonzala Lira. He says that the US is taking over direct control of the Ukrainian military and is cleaning house (echoes of the US organized assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem in Vietnam). this could be setting the stage for a direct US intervention in the coming weeks.
Posted by: Kadath | Jan 24 2023 16:00 utc | 325
Real Beast @ 316
Reading/understanding Capital by yourself outside a study group is a very difficult task. You’ve done well to perceive he wrote with style, but one from 150 years ago. Here’s some suggestions, per your request
1.https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/501-marx-s-capital-illustrated
2. Books by David Harvey,Richard Wolfe, or Michael Hudson , all of whom have tried to explain Marx and capitalism for a modern audience.
Posted by: mjh | Jan 24 2023 17:19 utc | 326
The states who send their Leopards to Ukraine will need new tanks for their own army. But the German manufacturers can’t deliever. So the European states will order tanks from US manufacturers:
Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 23 2023 17:40 utc | 304
Not necessarily. The big winner so far has been Hagglunds in Sweden with $2B USD in orders for armored vehicles. Europe has plenty of indigenous armored vehicle manufacturing capacity. Turkey is another potential source.
Posted by: First Time Poster | Jan 25 2023 19:27 utc | 327