Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
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January 22, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-20
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Heavy fighting is going on for Gulyai Pole in Zaporozhye Oblast. Gulyai Pole – which apparently changed hands no less than 16 times during the Russian Civil War – is vital to the Ukranazis to prevent their Donbass forces from being outflanked from the south. Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jan 22 2023 13:39 utc | 1 I’ve been watching “Best In Hell” (I usually only watch movies while on the treadmill every morning so I’m only an hour into it after 2 days). So far it is an excellent movie with a very high degree of realism and even handedness. Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jan 22 2023 13:41 utc | 2 Translated:
Comment: I hope Germany stick to their guns (no pun intended and do the sensible thing: Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jan 22 2023 14:01 utc | 4 Thank you for the sitrep Outraged. much appreciated. Posted by: migueljose | Jan 22 2023 14:03 utc | 5 In the Zaporizhzhya direction, two servicemen who served in what is considered an elite unit of the Armed Forces of Ukraine defected to the side of Russia. This was reported to TASS (https://t.me/tass_agency/177614) by the local administration of the region. Posted by: unimperator | Jan 22 2023 14:06 utc | 6 Another vote for the movie “Best in Hell” – absolutely amazing & realistic and likely as close as one can come to what is actually taking place in Donbass or any modern war… Posted by: Simplicius | Jan 22 2023 14:10 utc | 7 Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jan 22 2023 13:39 utc | 1 Posted by: unimperator | Jan 22 2023 14:23 utc | 8
Posted by: Down South | Jan 22 2023 14:42 utc | 9
https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1617154441509052416 Posted by: Down South | Jan 22 2023 14:46 utc | 10
https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1617105558602932226 Posted by: Down South | Jan 22 2023 14:49 utc | 11 Just a feeling due to the general tenor of things, but one of the dams could burst this week. Weakest point of the Ukie line is the Zap region. However, with muddy conditions apparently still prevalent at that latitude wheeled vehicles may need to stick to hard roads…meaning no logistical tail available for a major breakout. O. city should fall over the week in hand to hand combat with the RF forces holding artillery supremacy. Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 22 2023 14:58 utc | 12 Poland is standing up it’s own Mechanized Brigade … yet is it for the AFU or is Poland possibly going to deploy it into western Ukraine, manned by Polish Army Regulars, given indications AFU is facing collapse ?
Poland can train and equip Ukrainian brigade, says MoD This lad does a decent review of Best in Hell. I have yet to watch the actual film. Posted by: Chevrus | Jan 22 2023 15:04 utc | 14
Petr Bystron 5′ speech am Bundestag was clear and 100% premonitory.
Posted by: Weimar | Jan 22 2023 15:17 utc | 15 The West’s military aid packages make me think of a food drive. Lot’s of virtue signaling and utterances of support for the have-nots while they clean out their pantries of expired canned goods. Cans of artichoke hearts long past their sell-by dates? Feeling charitable today. How about those boxes of hamburger helper, all you need is the hamburger. Some canned hams, only a few years old. Well, I’m not sending those until my neighbor donates his. Posted by: Mike R | Jan 22 2023 15:22 utc | 16 Posted by: Apollyon | Jan 22 2023 15:24 utc | 17 Isolating the battlefield?
I disagree with Viktor Alxnis. It seems to me that Russia is intentionally not isolating the Bakhmut battlefield. Others here have reached the same conclusion. The aim is to let Ukraine move the maximum number of troops and materiel to Bakhmut, so that they may be destroyed in terrain and terms favorable to Russia. Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jan 22 2023 15:29 utc | 18 @Weimar Posted by: Apollyon | Jan 22 2023 15:31 utc | 19 What does the bar think of “ Natokraine ” as a term to refer to the army and political subunit that Russia is fighting? Posted by: Natokraine | Jan 22 2023 15:52 utc | 20 not sure how much longer it will stay up but best in hell at 720p is posted here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4ZxWaRHhnQ Posted by: Qsvgxn | Jan 22 2023 15:54 utc | 21 In eastern Germany, there is a growing sentiment against the current brown-green government.Here I hear at the dentist,in the discount store and at the market as good as no voice pro brown-green. Posted by: Oberbayer | Jan 22 2023 15:55 utc | 22 @ Petri Krohn | Jan 22 2023 15:29 utc | 18 Posted by: james | Jan 22 2023 15:58 utc | 23 Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Jan 22 2023 13:41 utc | 2 Posted by: dask | Jan 22 2023 16:04 utc | 24
https://t.me/azmilitary11/34442 Posted by: Down South | Jan 22 2023 16:05 utc | 25 I still don’t think we’ll see big arrow offensives with deep penetration by the Russians. At this point it appears clear that the prime directive is to destroy the Ukrainian military capability and all the assistance it gets. Posted by: Lex | Jan 22 2023 16:17 utc | 26 Somehow I get the feeling that the Ukraine fiasco is coming to an end, with the only thing remaining is finding someone to blame. And it seems Germany drew the short straw. Posted by: Lysander | Jan 22 2023 16:18 utc | 27 @Lysander Posted by: Apollyon | Jan 22 2023 16:25 utc | 28 One expects the Russians will have something major to show for the solemn yet celebratory One Year of War in Ukraine Day on February 24. Folks are yapping it up about the coming Spring Offensive by Ukraine to turn the tide on defeat and chase the Russians back to Moscow. Posted by: gottlieb | Jan 22 2023 16:32 utc | 29 Good news for Azow: Facebook has lifted all restrictions for the Azow Battalion: Posted by: Marvin | Jan 22 2023 16:35 utc | 30 ” Another vote for the movie “Best in Hell” – absolutely amazing & realistic and likely as close as one can come to what is actually taking place in Donbass or any modern war… Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Jan 22 2023 16:43 utc | 31 ” And? Who cares? As long as the German-Russian-relations aren’t totally messed up, why should Germany care what Poles, Ukros or the Baltic minions think? Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Jan 22 2023 16:45 utc | 32 @ Marvin | Jan 22 2023 16:35 utc | 30 Meta spurred on hate speech against Russians. This wouldn’t be odd that Meta would be okay with Azov now. Posted by: Malwen | Jan 22 2023 16:57 utc | 34 Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Jan 22 2023 16:43 utc | 31 Posted by: dask | Jan 22 2023 17:05 utc | 35 @Deplorable Commissar Posted by: Apollyon | Jan 22 2023 17:11 utc | 36 @ Posted by: Deplorable Commissar | Jan 22 2023 16:43 utc | 31 Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jan 22 2023 17:19 utc | 37 Russia might not be destroying the transportation infrastructure because their military will use it as they pass the current defensive lines. Also, their motivation for being there is to give possession to the new Russian citizens who live there. They are fighting enemies, but are fighting on land that belongs to fellow Russians. They shouldn’t act like foreign invaders. Posted by: barstool | Jan 22 2023 17:21 utc | 38 Transportation infra is a linear target and, except for points like bridges or tunnels, cant be destroyed. Posted by: alek_a | Jan 22 2023 17:37 utc | 39 aristodemos | Jan 22 2023 14:58 utc | 12 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 22 2023 17:40 utc | 40 Apollyon | Jan 22 2023 15:31 utc | 19 Posted by: BillC | Jan 22 2023 17:42 utc | 41 Ukraine mobilization extreme. The militant thugs driving around in vans don’t even bother asking papers or identity anymore, they will just grab you and send you to front. Posted by: unimperator | Jan 22 2023 17:42 utc | 42 @Apollyon Posted by: Boo | Jan 22 2023 17:46 utc | 43 @ apollyon Posted by: malenkov | Jan 22 2023 17:48 utc | 44 Those press gang videos circulating turn my stomach. Note – the press gangs will be eventually rounding up Ukrainian citizens living in NATO countries. Posted by: Exile | Jan 22 2023 17:56 utc | 45 Agree. “Best in Hell” is a Wagner recruitment video, full stop. I bailed after 5 minutes. Posted by: 600w | Jan 22 2023 18:06 utc | 46 Say what you like about “Best in Hell” (I likked it and I am a filmmaker) but the message is rather stunning: two slav brothers whose grandpas fought all the way to Berlin in a fight to the death. That is clearly an encouragement for a coup d’état against the NATO-Zelienskyy clique. It is at least on par with ROME. Posted by: Stierlitz | Jan 22 2023 18:06 utc | 47 Bojo back in Kiev is bad news. Brits are most likely to crank things up a notch or two. They’ve run out of Ukies judging by the videos of goons simply grabbing struggling cannon fodder off the street. Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 22 2023 18:20 utc | 48 Re: Poland and the Coalition of the ‘Rabidly Russophobic Nine’ appears to being stood up by US/UK as an ad hoc group of the ‘willing’, given 80% of NATO is not prepared to supply Ukraine further Arms, & Germany has held its ground under intense pressure for weeks now & appears determined to stonewall re sanctioning release of Leopard II MBTs.
No. Poland is setting up a deep fracture of the EU/NATO and ending being on the wrong side of history. Poland has a big angst with Germany who refuses to pay it US$1.4 trillion war reparations. Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 22 2023 18:23 utc | 49
https://t.me/azmilitary11/34453 Posted by: Down South | Jan 22 2023 18:25 utc | 50 @Boo Posted by: Apollyon | Jan 22 2023 18:32 utc | 51 I think the Russians realize that relations with Germany are permanently broken; Posted by: Vikichka | Jan 22 2023 18:33 utc | 52 Mike R @16 Posted by: Steve from Oz | Jan 22 2023 18:37 utc | 53 Another vote for the movie “Best in Hell” – absolutely amazing & realistic and likely as close as one can come to what is actually taking place in Donbass or any modern war… Posted by: liveload | Jan 22 2023 18:42 utc | 54 The “permanent government” of the exceptional USA.
And then the US will have the first female president whose husband is of the chosen tribe. He did open up about his Jewish faith. Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 22 2023 18:47 utc | 55 Posted by: dask | Jan 22 2023 16:04 utc | 24 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jan 22 2023 18:50 utc | 56 Likklemore | Jan 22 2023 18:23 utc | 49 “Considering the “rabid nine” rely on German wallets, we’ll see how many are willing to violate her authority to re-export the Leopards.” Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 22 2023 18:52 utc | 57 Apologies. @ post 55, page went crazy in preview: Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 22 2023 18:53 utc | 58 Looks like Nato aligned command personnel are being kicked out of the Hungarian military. They clearly see danger in what US is going to attempt next. Posted by: unimperator | Jan 22 2023 18:54 utc | 59 Emil Kio was a Soviet magician whose speciality was to perform illusions in front of circus audiences who, by the very nature of the seating, had a 360 view of the proceedings. Under this constant observation, or perhaps because of it, he was able to convince those watching ‘Cremation’ that he had immolated himself and his assistant, who would appear unscathed from a box suspended in the air. I think Russia’s response to NATO’s near-constant ISR coverage is to play the Kio gambit, use the very nature of this invasive surveillance as a tool to achieve one’s aims. Posted by: Milites | Jan 22 2023 18:58 utc | 60 @49 “UK will now send 14 Challenger tanks and 30 AS90 guns to push Russia back, take Krim and win the war. Said with a straight face. Seriously doomed.” Posted by: dh | Jan 22 2023 18:59 utc | 61 @Apollyon Posted by: Boo | Jan 22 2023 19:03 utc | 62 That’s Hollywood. Posted by: Vikichka | Jan 22 2023 19:16 utc | 63 „How did you go bankrupt?“ Posted by: El Lissitzky | Jan 22 2023 19:22 utc | 64 @Boo Posted by: Apollyon | Jan 22 2023 19:25 utc | 65 @ Apollyon Posted by: malenkov | Jan 22 2023 19:36 utc | 66 @ apollyon Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jan 22 2023 19:38 utc | 67 @64 Posted by: El Lissitzky | Jan 22 2023 19:40 utc | 68 The filth that rules the little people… Posted by: xor | Jan 22 2023 19:43 utc | 69 @ malenkov | Jan 22 2023 19:36 utc | 66 Posted by: james | Jan 22 2023 19:44 utc | 70 @Lizitsky Posted by: Boo | Jan 22 2023 19:44 utc | 71 @Milites | Jan 22 2023 18:58 utc | 60 Posted by: the pessimist | Jan 22 2023 19:44 utc | 72 @ CM of Berlin Posted by: malenkov | Jan 22 2023 19:48 utc | 73 @ james Posted by: malenkov | Jan 22 2023 19:53 utc | 74 Interesting to note UAF and western media hasn’t admitted that Russia holds Soledar. They still keep holding it on the social media. It means that it, and the front on that area is far more important than admitted, too. Posted by: unimperator | Jan 22 2023 19:57 utc | 75 Everyone seems to be describing the collective West’s strategy of showering Ukraine with all kinds of weapons as non-sensical (e.g. The Duran). However, from the perspective of the US it makes perfect sense. On the one hand the US has been pressuring their “allies” i.e. vassals, to increase their military/defense budgets for years now, and now here’s the perfect opportunity to get rid of all the non-US weapons in NATO arsenal. The result is going to be that everybody is going to need new equipment which will have to be ordered from the big brother. Posted by: Pagan | Jan 22 2023 20:06 utc | 76 @Pagan | Jan 22 2023 20:06 utc | 76 Posted by: the pessimist | Jan 22 2023 20:12 utc | 77 @ PeterAU1 57 Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 22 2023 20:18 utc | 78 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 22 2023 17:40 utc | 40 “A Russian push down the Oskil River seems likely.” Posted by: Bill Smith | Jan 22 2023 20:19 utc | 79 @76 Posted by: chunga | Jan 22 2023 20:29 utc | 80 pagan @ 76 Posted by: dp | Jan 22 2023 20:35 utc | 81 @dp | Jan 22 2023 20:35 utc | 81 Posted by: the pessimist | Jan 22 2023 20:40 utc | 82 @ Boo | Jan 22 2023 19:44 utc | 71 Posted by: El Lissitzky | Jan 22 2023 20:40 utc | 83 I’ve got a question about Germany. The German government opposes being the first to send tanks to Ukraine. Why? Is this because sending tanks would make the current government impopular? Is this because images of German rolling over the Ukrainian plain bring back memories? Or is this because the German government feels that returning to business as usual with Russia after the war is becoming a rather remote possibility? Posted by: Passerby | Jan 22 2023 20:55 utc | 84 Nato is not running short on anything and unfortunately for Ukraine and Russia this thing is just getting started. Even the Russians know they cannot keep up with all of Nato. I have no idea how the Russians get themselves out of this situation but it is starting to get extremely dangerous. Posted by: OohCanada | Jan 22 2023 20:57 utc | 85 Posted by: Qsvgxn | Jan 22 2023 15:54 utc | 21 Posted by: Dalit | Jan 22 2023 20:59 utc | 86 Bill Smith | Jan 22 2023 20:19 utc | 79 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 22 2023 21:01 utc | 87 @Apollyon | Jan 22 2023 15:31 utc | 19 Posted by: Weimar | Jan 22 2023 21:03 utc | 88 I see no moves in the US to build new factories to increase production and no move the educate and train a workforce… Posted by: Pagan | Jan 22 2023 21:03 utc | 89 “The remains of the no longer elite 46th brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the outskirts of the settlement. Ivanovskoye (Krasnoe), retreating with 300 under fire from the Wagner Group.” Posted by: unimperator | Jan 22 2023 21:07 utc | 90 Pagan | Jan 22 2023 20:06 utc | 76 Posted by: rk | Jan 22 2023 21:14 utc | 91 Russia owns Ukraine, just like PRC owns Tibet. Tibet has always been China, there is no Tibet! Ukraine has always been Russia, there is no Ukraine! Tibetans and Ukrainians (whatever they are) must serve their natural masters. Xi and Putin will lead this world to true freedom! So, looks like hundreds of Leopard 2 tanks are on their way to occupied Russia. No problem! They will melt in the face of Russian steel! The finest tanks on earth backed by all the most advanced nations will not make any difference to the warriors of Putin’s will. His will be done, his kingdom come! (BTW, in eastern Russia, Chinese language teachers are earning 400 percent more than a year ago. Look it up!) Okay, seriously now, last chance. Jail tragic Putin and his lackey’s, withdraw from all 1991 Ukraine territory, have democratic elections and systems installed, and Russia can keep the Sevastopol naval base on 2013 terms, with freedom of movement for personal stationed there and uninterrupted supplies of water and power. Otherwise, the safety of the Russian public can no longer be assured. Awake and smell the failure. Posted by: Ahole | Jan 22 2023 21:15 utc | 92 European countries are ordained to suffer more under the command of NATO and EU, two blocs unique in the world, which are chaperoned by: “Atlantic Council – Shaping the global future together — The Atlantic Council is a nonpartisan organization that galvanizes US global leadership and engagement in partnership with allies and partners.” . . .dig that “partnership.” . . .and galvanize: “to cause (people) to become so excited or concerned about an issue, idea, etc., that they want to do something about it. an issue that galvanized the public (to take action)” Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 22 2023 21:15 utc | 93 The matter of German-Russian relations is central to plans for multipolarity. For all the crimes of its leaders Europe has much to offer the world and Chinese originated plans for eurasian integration and a revival of the ancient land based trading routes lead logically to trade from the Pacific to the Atlantic, from the South China to the North Sea. Posted by: bevin | Jan 22 2023 21:17 utc | 94 Apollyon@62
Some brainwashing was done, though, through the media. I recall I was among the hardliners then myself, who supported the bombing campaign of NATO 1999 in Serbia. I was a SPIEGEL reader and believed everything in the magazine and on TV – the Serbs were being smeared as the sole perpetrators of every war crime. Many Germans still believe this story, all you need to do is mention Srebreniza. There were journalists in Yugoslavia with access to more authentic information, but it was all filtered to fit the anti-Serbian narrative before the German print media would publish it. Posted by: grunzt | Jan 22 2023 21:17 utc | 95 In other news. Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jan 22 2023 21:19 utc | 96 Posted by: Down South | Jan 22 2023 14:46 utc | 10
https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1617270475494952960 Posted by: Down South | Jan 22 2023 21:22 utc | 97 Economically, Ukraine is fucked. Kievan elite is banking on the delusion that Western officials will turn Ukraine into a liberal country for free after the war for geopolitical reasons but the reality is that, after an armistice will be reached, Western governments will forget about Ukraine and the country will be left at the mercy of BlackRock, IMF and other psychopathic, capitalistic vultures. Posted by: Vampire Kissinger | Jan 22 2023 21:22 utc | 98
All three are good reason for Germany not to go. All three are good reason for US to deeply screw Germany. Posted by: Weimar | Jan 22 2023 21:23 utc | 99 In addition. The world’s best source of propaganda and lies since foundation day. The British Bullshitting Corporation”, Londinium. Continues to promote nothing but lies and assorted failed conspiracy theories as usual about country 404. Along with many other unrelated countries in this world. Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jan 22 2023 21:26 utc | 100 |
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