Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
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January 1, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-02
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
RF force take out a drone warehouse and, the Russian military destroyed a warehouse of artillery ammunition of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Zaporozhye region, as well as a mobile airspace surveillance radar and an American an AN/TPQ-50 counter-battery radar station on the territory of the Donetsk People’s Republic. In just one day, it was possible to hit 68 enemy artillery units in firing positions, manpower and military equipment in 102 districts. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jan 1 2023 13:51 utc | 1 Happy New Year Barflies. Due to late night reveling I am still a little fuzzy, but what remains on my mind is Hollande piggybacking on Merkel’s statements regarding Minsk II. Something major is happening with that behind the scenes. Posted by: chunga | Jan 1 2023 13:52 utc | 2 One should always assume that these so called “mercenaries” are actually Nato troops, disguised as mercenaries I certainly do. Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jan 1 2023 13:57 utc | 3 Here we are 1st of january 23 most of us have survived this unprovoked war against Russia, sadly alot didn’t. Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 1 2023 14:10 utc | 4 @chunga Posted by: lsammart | Jan 1 2023 14:18 utc | 5 @lsammart Posted by: chunga | Jan 1 2023 14:36 utc | 6 Ukrainian Minister of Defence Reznikov writes a begging letter to Santa. Literally. Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 1 2023 14:46 utc | 7 @chunga | Jan 1 2023 13:52 utc | 2
Happy New Year! I think it is a desperate move based on delusional thinking that if they can prove to the Russian population that “Putin” was fooled by the Minsk I & II lies as stated by Merkel and Hollande, his government will be discredited and the ‘west’ gets their regime change. Obviously, the outcome will be ‘different’. Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 1 2023 14:53 utc | 8 The Battle of Bakhmut is the key to the Donbas. When Bakhmut falls, the Russians will quickly take all of the Donbas. Posted by: young | Jan 1 2023 14:55 utc | 9 Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 1 2023 14:46 utc | 7 Posted by: Abe | Jan 1 2023 14:57 utc | 10 Followup & comment re post by @ Summary | Jan 1 2023 12:48 utc | 116 in previous Ukraine Thread …
Comment: 2- There was a clear intention to back stab the US Posted by: rk | Jan 1 2023 15:08 utc | 12 @Norwegian Posted by: chunga | Jan 1 2023 15:09 utc | 13 @Abe | Jan 1 2023 14:57 utc | 10
I had to look up BMD, and it seems you are correct: BMD stands for Boyevaya Mashina Desanta (Боевая Машина Десанта). Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 1 2023 15:09 utc | 14
Perhaps, although I’d have expected an attempt to undermine Putin that would not also have acknowledged Ukraine’s role as aggressor. Posted by: David Levin | Jan 1 2023 15:09 utc | 15 @ Abe | Jan 1 2023 14:57 utc | 10
Indeed, ’tis true.
My thoughts on on recent Minsk revelations. Posted by: Mar man | Jan 1 2023 15:21 utc | 18 Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 1 2023 14:53 utc | 8 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jan 1 2023 15:22 utc | 19 young @ 9 Posted by: oldhippie | Jan 1 2023 15:37 utc | 20 Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 1 2023 15:09 utc | 14 Posted by: Abe | Jan 1 2023 15:42 utc | 21 Currently 45 degrees in Donetsk. Tomorrow and Tuesday to reach a high of 50, or 10 to all non-Americans. Posted by: oldhippie | Jan 1 2023 15:37 utc | 20 Posted by: unimperator | Jan 1 2023 16:03 utc | 23 No one knows what is coming or how it will end – with a whimper, a bang, or anywhere in between. Posted by: Moses22 | Jan 1 2023 16:09 utc | 24 Given the admissions of bad faith by Merkel and Hollande. Posted by: jpc | Jan 1 2023 16:32 utc | 25 I suspect part of reason for Russia being in Belorus is to be in position to act on Poland if Poland should get any ideas. Posted by: jared | Jan 1 2023 16:34 utc | 26 Oddly it is the Orthodox Christmas on 6/7 January – about the same time as it is forecast to freeze. Posted by: marcjf | Jan 1 2023 16:53 utc | 27 Both sides are playing politics the Minsk 2 charade. The citizens of the DPR and LPR were the ones being played. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jan 1 2023 16:57 utc | 28 Posted by: marcjf | Jan 1 2023 16:53 utc | 27 Posted by: unimperator | Jan 1 2023 17:00 utc | 29 ” Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jan 1 2023 17:14 utc | 30 People are misinterpreting admissions by Merkel and Hollande. They are just shielding themselves from personal criticisms and winning political points by going along with the current thing. I don’t think either of them were looking forward (insofar as they’re ‘leaders’ with a ‘forward thinking’ approach – which they’re demonstrably not) to a NATO-Russia showdown. They were and remain nobodies, doing what they are told. Posted by: Boo | Jan 1 2023 17:17 utc | 31 Hollande and Merkels remarks do give creedence to Putins claims to the Russian population that the West are incorrigible liars. If I was choreographing this conflict and Putin needed to whip up his for all out war, this is what I would do. Posted by: oubok | Jan 1 2023 17:19 utc | 32 More death. More destruction. More rationalizations of this stupid War that Putin launched. More wrong predictions about the course of the War. Posted by: NoWar | Jan 1 2023 17:21 utc | 33 Also, Putin was aware of this full well. His rapid efforts to modernize the military speak far more than any ‘we’ve been duped by dishonest negotiators’ line. He’s just capitalizing on their admissions of dishonesty for the internal Russian public. This will marginalize any supporters of the West even further, making it a completely untenable position to hold, and Putin will finally get a creeping purge of the alleged liberals in the establishment. Posted by: Boo | Jan 1 2023 17:22 utc | 34 To all a good night! I have link in my bookmarks to the NASA sat view of 404 at night. It is chilling to scroll through night by night. This may have been posted here before if so apologies. The link: Posted by: KlutchKargo | Jan 1 2023 17:30 utc | 35 For Russia, the Ukraine war is an internal war first and an external war second. The country reached a position where having half of the establishment as nationalists and the other half as globalists was completely untenable if it was going to retain any sort of coherent policy vis-a-vis a confrontational West. Posted by: Boo | Jan 1 2023 17:30 utc | 36 Posted by: NoWar | Jan 1 2023 17:21 utc | 33 Posted by: PalmaSailor | Jan 1 2023 17:33 utc | 37 @NoWar Posted by: chunga | Jan 1 2023 17:33 utc | 38 @35 Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jan 1 2023 17:38 utc | 39 Posted by: NoWar | Jan 1 2023 17:21 utc | 33
Stop resisting, you just make things worse. It is time for you to surrender. Posted by: hopehely | Jan 1 2023 17:40 utc | 40 Ukraine has always been Russia, just like Tibet has always been China!!! They will submit or die, along with their silly religious beliefs! Serve the PRC!!! Posted by: Ahole | Jan 1 2023 17:41 utc | 41 NoWar@33…. there is no war, so there is nothing to win …maybe you missed it …SMO….denazify demilitarize Ukraine and by default NATO…..gives us an idea of what win is….that way we’ll all be in on the joke when it’s over…. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jan 1 2023 17:45 utc | 42
Recall that the center of the original Khazarian Kaganate was well east of Kiev in the .area from the Caspian Sea to Crimea. It briefly included Kiev. So Russia would do well to keep them as far west as possible.
Some things never change 😉 Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jan 1 2023 17:59 utc | 43 Imagine being on holiday in Kiev staying in a swank hotel new years rolling in, then kaboom, an entire corner disappears in a cloud of dust, never thought for a moment popping a champagne bottle cork would be so dangerous but then traveling ain’t all it’s cracked up to be anymore. Pity anyone working on their English staying on that side of the building. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jan 1 2023 18:04 utc | 44 You think Europe has a refugee problem now, just wait a few months as Russia escalates to the ‘desolation’ stage of peace. The Great Satan/NATO war in Ukraine shows clearly that Europe is not a union of democracies, but a clusterfuck of cucks for for-profit Empire run by the elephants in the room. Posted by: gottlieb | Jan 1 2023 18:07 utc | 45 Perhaps Merkel and Hollande are coming clean for a role in a future negotiation with Russia? Would admitting their duplicity not, in some sense, clear the air from the Russian perspective for their former roles? Posted by: bobzibub | Jan 1 2023 18:23 utc | 47 Politicians are such weasels with their weasel words. Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Jan 1 2023 18:23 utc | 48 Strelkov today quoting Prigozhin (Mr. Wagner):
I can’t tell where Strelkov’s approval ends and sarcasm begins. AFAIK Strelkov does frequently rail against “bureaucracy and corruption” as well. However, I suspect he regards Prigohzin as a product and participant of said bureaucracy and corruption. I know I do. The Blackwater-ish Wagner organization makes me squeamish. I’d rather the Russians be above such things. Posted by: Mike314159 | Jan 1 2023 18:34 utc | 49 It doesn’t look like it’ll be a cold winter. But it can be colder in March, the weather in Europe isn’t like before. The large offensive idea appeared in MSM, also saying that Russia can’t fight if the ground isn’t frozen. MSM then said that Russia can’t fight in cold weather at all, waiting for summer. Everyday they try to explain how is Ukr winning. When they said Russia will take Ukr in 2 days was just to invent something that Russia “failed” to do. Now they’ll say Russia can’t do offensives, they’re losing, Zely will invade Moscow soon. Send more money, don’t wash. Posted by: rk | Jan 1 2023 18:35 utc | 50 Both Merkle and Hollands phones were tapped by the US. I think that was made public with the Smowden info. Neither said anything about it publicly at the time. Payback. What they have now said publicly Lets the entire world know it was only Putin and Russia that tried to bring peaceful resolution to the conflict in Ukraine. Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 1 2023 18:44 utc | 51 Mark : What will happen next? Nato will roll out its next tier of toys, centered around the Bradley as well as counterdrone tech. Russia os not going to win this. Posted by: Fnord73 | Jan 1 2023 18:56 utc | 52 The Western propaganda as usual calling it a strike on civilians Posted by: Spanky | Jan 1 2023 18:57 utc | 53 I think boo comes closest to the mark re Merkel and Hollande. Myself, I think they’re aping Pompeo’s “We lie, we cheat, we steal” attitude. They believe that because they’re the good guys, they aren’t bound by any notion of decency. Posted by: malenkov | Jan 1 2023 19:04 utc | 54 B previously said Merkel’s just burnishing anti-Putin credentials. That may be. If it is, it speaks to the problems of analysis he also just wrote about because while it will play well in the west, how will it play in the rest of the world? A year ago Germany only had to have an agreement with Russia for all its energy needs. Now it will need a bunch of them, with all sorts of countries (many with complications). Perhaps its not the best idea to brag about lying and giving Russia and China the quotes to discuss with the rest of the planet? Posted by: Lex | Jan 1 2023 19:05 utc | 55 @ Peter AU1 | Jan 1 2023 18:44 utc | 51
China broke a major US spy ring/operation back in 2010, reportedly killing or imprisoning 18-20 CIA sources from 2010-2012, and shared subsequent incriminating intelligence with Russia. Obama’s Pivot to Asia and Xi’s ascension and attendant anti-corruption campaign soon followed. Posted by: majoab | Jan 1 2023 19:07 utc | 56 @ Lex @ 19:05 utc Posted by: malenkov | Jan 1 2023 19:10 utc | 57 Incompetence for 10+ months now. When will the Yes-men here admit the failure of russian operation? This is not even funny anymore. Posted by: ZCanon | Jan 1 2023 19:19 utc | 59 https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/01/europe/putin-ukraine-war-shift-europe-security-intl-cmd/index.html Posted by: Clif | Jan 1 2023 19:19 utc | 60 i mostly concur with boo’s overview and with lex… thanks you 2… Posted by: james | Jan 1 2023 19:21 utc | 61 @ZCanon | Jan 1 2023 19:19 utc | 59
Try some practical competence then: Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 1 2023 19:22 utc | 62 majoab | Jan 1 2023 19:07 utc | 56 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 1 2023 19:23 utc | 63 3 million Ukraine refugees in Russia and my guess is that they are a plus for Russia and if they got back home it’ll still be Russia, much better than the cess pool of the Ukraine. 4 million in Europe, that’ll be a net positive as they’ll be Europeans in a generation unlike the Africans who will take generation’s and may never fit in, they mostly haven’t yet. The Ukraine won’t have an economy to go back to and the European economies will be in the tank for a generation unlikely ever to be what they were before Thatcher. The US will continue to try and fail at running the world for another generation consigning the working classes in the treadmill to the bottom. Wish this wasn’t happening on my watch in Canada but it’s at least fixable with better management which I see no sign of. Posted by: Bob | Jan 1 2023 19:24 utc | 64 Re: Norwegian | Jan 1 2023 14:53 utc | 8 Posted by: James B | Jan 1 2023 19:26 utc | 65 New strikes? Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jan 1 2023 19:32 utc | 66 Also the Merkle and Hollande statements let the world know that negotiated settlement with the empire of lies is a waste of time. This will be settled militarily. Both statements have come as Russia is engaged in a military buildup in its SMO forces that may well turn into a major offensive in the Donbas. Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 1 2023 19:35 utc | 67 Much like the Représentant en mission of the French Revolution, the Political Commissars of the Soviets, the Schutzstaffel (SS) of the Germans and ISIS or Taliban of the Islamic world, the Europeans are terrified of the Taliban of the WEF. Merkel is just making sure she is seen as loyal servant otherwise she might get the sudden death treatment. Posted by: Johnycomelately | Jan 1 2023 19:39 utc | 68 Neofeudalfuture | Jan 1 2023 19:32 utc | 66 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 1 2023 19:50 utc | 69 Merkel is just making sure she is seen as loyal servant otherwise she might get the sudden death treatment. Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 1 2023 19:56 utc | 70 @Lex Posted by: Boo | Jan 1 2023 19:58 utc | 71 Here’s a rather good video explaining how Russians are destroying rest of ukie air defense system. They used the decoy drones and decoy rockets with special “lens” to reflect an image of phantom rockets, aircraft and missiles. Ukraine apparently lost 4 S-300 systems (either launchers or radars) on December 29th. Posted by: unimperator | Jan 1 2023 20:00 utc | 72 While we are taking down statues of our first Prime Minister, the Ukrainian community in Edmonton have statues of Roman Shukhevych, head of the wartime Ukrainian insurgent army, alleged to have killed 100k Poles and Jews as well as the 14th Waffen SS Division which was manned by Ukrainians. I wonder who we are supporting in Canada. Ukraine’s suppression of the Russian language is inimical to our policy of official bilingualism, strongly supported by our present PM’s father when he was Prime Minister. Posted by: Michael Price | Jan 1 2023 20:28 utc | 73 I’m a woman who is, shall we say, “socially adept.” Merkel’s expressionless face reminds me of the equally expressionless face of Chinese leader Xi. It’s a poker face. She hides her cards. Others barflies may disagree, but I don’t think Merkel responds at the typical times. She watches other people speak or laugh, and then responds with a little delay. She waits to process what others are doing, then chooses her own response. She doesn’t mime other people like a jr. high kid, but doesn’t go first, either. @ Johnycomelately | Jan 1 2023 19:39 utc | 68
War Hawkier than thou is a thing these days. So, Merkel and Hollande deceived us earlier, but this time they tell the truth. Deceive me once, shame on you, deceive me twice, shame on me. Posted by: ? | Jan 1 2023 20:30 utc | 75 Learning from Brian Berletic’s lesson. The Stollenberg is expired but I picked up a nice round French brie for 82p not yet smelly. Merkel and Hollande are surely making internal political points that the current leadership of their countries are brainless dupes of US fascism. Posted by: Giyane | Jan 1 2023 20:31 utc | 77 PS to my 76. “…I believe Merkel speaks only grade-school level Russian.” James B@65 Posted by: bevin | Jan 1 2023 20:42 utc | 79 Someone knew this arrival was happening in advance. It is highly unlikely they just happened to be filming the exact correct spot at dawn when it happened. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jan 1 2023 20:48 utc | 80 If anyone is interested in the global political economy of the Ukraine war, see this excellent essay, republished on The Postil: Posted by: Eisengrimm | Jan 1 2023 20:57 utc | 81 Stonebird, that is the way I am seeing it. We heard nothing about mud last Ukraine spring. Russian military can operate in any season. Tactics and strategies to fit the season. Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 1 2023 20:58 utc | 82 Crypto-fascist Canadian tabloid The Sun pushing for National Hockey League superstar Alex Ovechkin to be banned by the Canadian gov’t from entering Canada because he likes and support President Putin. Posted by: nwwoods | Jan 1 2023 21:12 utc | 83 Posted by: nwwoods | Jan 1 2023 21:12 utc | 83 Posted by: Vikichka | Jan 1 2023 21:26 utc | 84 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 1 2023 15:02 utc | 11 Finian Cunningham smells a rat.
Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 1 2023 21:39 utc | 86 Come on, the Canadians didn’t let healthy recovered Canadians enter Canada if they were not vaccinated. By now everyone should know the collective west are not a liberal democracy. It’s a totalitarian distopia. @ stonebird.. thanks for your posts.. Posted by: james | Jan 1 2023 21:45 utc | 88 @KR Posted by: Boo | Jan 1 2023 21:47 utc | 89 Posted by: nwwoods | Jan 1 2023 21:12 utc | 83 Someone knew this arrival was happening in advance. It is highly unlikely they just happened to be filming the exact correct spot at dawn when it happened.
Vikichka is exaggerating. If you were returning to Canada unvaccinated you had to quarantine in a government approved hotel for 2 weeks, at your own expense. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jan 1 2023 21:59 utc | 92 That’s interesting. I thought only Australia denied their own people return to homeshores. Not so, eh? So was it in fact commonplace? Posted by: Vikichka | Jan 1 2023 22:03 utc | 93 Eva Bartlett had an article on RT back then, as she flew to Canada to see her mother who was waiting for her at the airport, but wasn’t allowed in and flew back. I think they gave her the option of a government “hotel” for an exorbitant fee, but I don’t remember specifics anymore. And as RT is now blocked here in my hellhole of an EU country, I can’t search for the article. @51 @ Vikichka | Jan 1 2023 22:03 utc | 93 Posted by: james | Jan 1 2023 22:10 utc | 96 oldhippie #20
From my reading and viewing, I get the concept of a freeze as a bonus but not a necessity. Certainly is mild in those parts iearlgrey reported +2C degrees in Moscow a couple of days ago. Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 1 2023 22:13 utc | 98 Posted by: abrogard | Jan 1 2023 21:38 utc | 85 “surely there must be some areas by now that are technically totally understaffed and vulnerable ” Posted by: Bill Smith | Jan 1 2023 22:19 utc | 99 According to Southfront the Russians have taken a catastrophic hit from Himars with dozens killed due to incompetent crowding of personnel in unsuitable and vulnerable structure. Posted by: bottle | Jan 1 2023 22:35 utc | 100 |
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