Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict.
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January 20, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-18
Only for news & views directly related to the Ukraine conflict. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Peace | Jan 21 2023 1:38 utc | 96 Posted by: paddy | Jan 21 2023 1:47 utc | 101 Posted by: Peace | Jan 21 2023 1:38 utc | 96 “It will be most likely conventional and designed to cripple the Ukraine war support network in Romania and Poland” Posted by: Bill Smith | Jan 21 2023 1:48 utc | 102 Posted by: Outraged | Jan 21 2023 1:31 utc | 93 “additional activated forces in 3 Tank/Mech Armies (~4 heavy Divisions, 40K+ each)” Posted by: Bill Smith | Jan 21 2023 1:52 utc | 103 unca tungsten @77 Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 21 2023 2:01 utc | 105 Miutt-hacker @ 78 Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 21 2023 2:03 utc | 106 @ Muthaucker | Jan 21 2023 0:44 utc | 83 Uncle Tungsten @97 Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 21 2023 2:21 utc | 108 Back in 2008, William J. Burns warned that if Ukraine moved toward NATO, this would cause a civil war in Ukraine and that would then bring Moscow in. This might be exactly why Western officials subsequently enacted policies leading to such a result. Posted by: Carnyxcall | Jan 21 2023 2:25 utc | 109 Back in 2008, William J. Burns warned that if Ukraine moved toward NATO, this would cause a civil war in Ukraine and that would then bring Moscow in. This might be exactly why Western officials subsequently enacted policies leading to such a result. Posted by: Carnyxcall | Jan 21 2023 2:27 utc | 110 When you don’t own a mirror. Posted by: Hermit | Jan 21 2023 2:32 utc | 111 @107 Absolutely right. Crimea was the red line for Putin. Once Yanukovych was out he didn’t hesitate to secure it. And now Zelensky thinks he will get it back with a few dozen tanks. Posted by: dh | Jan 21 2023 3:02 utc | 112 I think Russia is waiting to see if it’s carnival barker shell-game of constant troop movements and deployments is working. Under near-total NATO ISR, traditional methods of concealing intent, misdirection and hidden force build-up are pointless, so I think they are doing all three in the open. If they do move decisively it will be in conjunction with previously unused ISR blocking technologies and develop counter to expectations that they themselves have reinforced. The window this will present will be small, so a highly dynamic operation will unfold and the plan, months in the making, will be put to the test. Until then, expecting a live action version of Command & Conquer Red Alert is somewhat misguided. Posted by: Milites | Jan 21 2023 3:09 utc | 113 from DOD
>cmt: but only several contributed
so, to conclude Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 21 2023 3:24 utc | 114 “Posted by: Bill Smith | Jan 21 2023 1:48 utc | 102 Posted by: Just Observing | Jan 21 2023 3:30 utc | 115 @113 Good job Lloyd. Unfortunately it won’t be enough for Zelensky. He wants hundreds of tanks, F-35s, cruise missiles and B-52 over Moscow. Posted by: dh | Jan 21 2023 3:42 utc | 116 @ David Levin | Jan 20 2023 23:53 utc | 75
😉
And has only gotten much, much worse ever since, especially post ’89-’91, given the complete abandonment of the previously perceived situational temporary strategic advantage of the ‘need’ to present & project the faux ‘Better’ societal model for the ‘Others’ to aspire towards. Ass-wipes & Vampyres.
Agreed. The gathering of vultures? Posted by: Elmagnostic | Jan 21 2023 3:52 utc | 118 @ Posted by: Carnyxcall | Jan 21 2023 2:27 utc | 109 Posted by: Richard L | Jan 21 2023 3:53 utc | 119
What about Lyman Lemnitzer and Curtiss LeMay? Posted by: aej | Jan 21 2023 3:54 utc | 120
Posted by: Down South | Jan 21 2023 4:11 utc | 121
Posted by: Down South | Jan 21 2023 4:13 utc | 122 @18 inclined to agree a nuclear strike will not be in Ukraine. That would be a waste of a strike.
Posted by: Down South | Jan 21 2023 4:15 utc | 124 @ Milites | Jan 21 2023 3:09 utc | 112 Posted by: whirlX | Jan 21 2023 4:23 utc | 125 @Boo @RSH Posted by: dask | Jan 21 2023 4:49 utc | 126 RT reports on the cover-up the Outlaw US Empire is doing to mask “US Navy SEAL killed in Ukraine” by using this crap, “Washington says the Iraq and Afghanistan veteran was a deserter from the American military.” It’s Friday night, so it’s possible a few barflies will allow this explanation to stand, but IMO it’s malarky. I’ll bet he’s part of a large number of AWOL SEALs. OT–The Outlaw US Empire’s base at al-Tanf supporting its Terrorist Foreign Legion in Syria was attacked by suicide drones in what I’d describe as harassing fire, RT reported. Posted by: Outraged | Jan 20 2023 23:26 utc | 67 Posted by: Activist Potato | Jan 21 2023 5:50 utc | 129 karlof1 | Jan 21 2023 5:10 utc | 126 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 21 2023 5:54 utc | 130 Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 20 2023 21:10 utc | 44 Posted by: Brother Ma | Jan 21 2023 5:57 utc | 131 karlof1 #127 Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 21 2023 6:06 utc | 132 He secured his place alright, right there with Stalin, Mao, and Pol-Pot. Posted by: Colin | Jan 21 2023 6:27 utc | 133 USUK snipers discovered:
From: https://t.me/Slavyangrad/29907 Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 21 2023 6:28 utc | 134 @ Anthony 26 Posted by: Giyane | Jan 21 2023 6:34 utc | 135 Posted by: Richard L | Jan 21 2023 3:53 utc Posted by: Colin | Jan 21 2023 6:46 utc | 136 @ 134 Posted by: Giyane | Jan 21 2023 7:10 utc | 137
https://t.me/azmilitary11/34304 Posted by: Down South | Jan 21 2023 7:15 utc | 138 Posted by: Giyane | Jan 21 2023 7:10 utc | 136 Posted by: Exile | Jan 21 2023 7:21 utc | 139 Alexander Mercouris made an ass of himself on Friday’s video. He cited my follow-up email on how to pronounce the name of the Abrams tank. He decided he can’t do it because he speaks British English, not American English. He compared it to being unable to pronounce Erdogan’s name. Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jan 21 2023 7:47 utc | 140 Richard …. Please, why pick on someone like a crow picks apart carrion? Posted by: Timbo | Jan 21 2023 7:52 utc | 141 Latest Brian Berletic…
Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jan 21 2023 7:54 utc | 142 Considering all the resolutions raised in the UN to condemn the “unprovoked invasion”, and given the overwhelming out-in-the open support for Ukr by countries halfway around the world to whom RF poses no credible threat to, would it not make sense for RF to do their own UN Res. Posted by: Parfum | Jan 21 2023 8:03 utc | 145 Posted by: Timbo | Jan 21 2023 7:52 utc | 140 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jan 21 2023 8:03 utc | 146 Posted by: blues | Jan 21 2023 7:59 utc | 143 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jan 21 2023 8:05 utc | 147 Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 20 2023 20:48 utc | 38 Posted by: Cherrycoke | Jan 21 2023 8:09 utc | 148 Jeez Hack, bored today or red ants got into your petticoats or what? Besides, pronunciation has got sweet fanny adams to do with grammar. Posted by: petra | Jan 21 2023 8:18 utc | 149 West run by a pack of mental midgets with short memories, apparently. Posted by: Parfum | Jan 21 2023 8:19 utc | 150 Foreign snipers arrived on Bolshoy Potemkin Island in Kherson region – Slavyangrad Posted by: rk | Jan 21 2023 8:24 utc | 151 @ Richard Steven Hack | Jan 21 2023 7:47 utc | 139 Posted by: hacket 101 | Jan 21 2023 8:26 utc | 152
I checked it out on Google maps, a big island in a river delta. Likely good hunting there. Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jan 21 2023 8:35 utc | 153 OMFG the German Military Union tells it like it is.
From https://t.me/Slavyangrad/29914 Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 21 2023 8:35 utc | 154 Love your posts Hack. Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 21 2023 8:38 utc | 155 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jan 21 2023 7:47 utc | 139 Posted by: Drake Schroeder | Jan 21 2023 8:38 utc | 156 Re 145 RSH. Language is continually evolving. Why quibble? …you’ve even got me doing it Posted by: Timbo | Jan 21 2023 8:47 utc | 157 Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 21 2023 8:38 utc | 154 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jan 21 2023 8:50 utc | 158 Posted by: Timbo | Jan 21 2023 8:47 utc | 156 Posted by: Richard Steven Hack | Jan 21 2023 8:53 utc | 159 @ Drake Schroeder | Jan 21 2023 8:38 utc | 155 hacket 101 #151
I’m with Brandon 😉 Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 21 2023 9:05 utc | 161 Ok, to restore some order in the bar, I propose John Bolt-on be promoted from chief broom to bouncer. That will restore unity as we would all have a common enemy… (well maybe) Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 21 2023 9:11 utc | 162 @ uncle tungsten | Jan 21 2023 9:11 utc | 161 Ering46Z. [1] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jan 21 2023 9:19 utc | 164
Keep on walking forward comrades. Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 21 2023 9:23 utc | 165 https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/politik-inland/unfassbare-schlamperei-darum-sind-unsere-puma-panzer-wirklich-kaputt-82617924.bild.html Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jan 21 2023 9:25 utc | 166 @ both Lysa | Jan 20 2023 16:45 utc | 2 and watcher | Jan 20 2023 21:56 utc | 53 Posted by: Scuppers | Jan 21 2023 9:26 utc | 167 For those seeking comic relief at anti-spiegel.ru…. Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 21 2023 9:34 utc | 168 – US NAVY Seal killed in Ukraine. The Navy said he had gone absent without leave and had been listed as an “active deserter” since March 11, 2019. nytimes Posted by: Passerby | Jan 21 2023 9:38 utc | 169 Scuppers #166 Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 21 2023 9:40 utc | 170 Hello folks, last week had seen an interview with former General Erich Vad, published on »Emma«, which made some splash concerning the matter at stake here. Posted by: Yogi | Jan 21 2023 9:42 utc | 171 Personaly i think we will see the UK put up for the fall guy regards the Uqraine insanity, and only rightly so. Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 21 2023 9:48 utc | 172 It will be interesting to see if Russians manage to set up another pre-designed “grinder” similar to Soledar somewhere else, since it was such a huge success. My guess Nato command will be scrambling to plug holes in Zaporizhe at expense of everything else, well atleast they should be. The ground beyond Orekhov, and Zaporizhe on the river bank is open steppe, rushing in reinforcements should be easier to whittle down with drones etc. Posted by: unimperator | Jan 21 2023 9:50 utc | 173 @Brother Ma | Jan 21 2023 5:57 utc | 130
True. King Haakon was a major symbol of resistance during WWII. The present king (grandson) Harald, not so much. Zelensky has no moral high ground, that is an understatement. Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 21 2023 9:57 utc | 174 @ Paul Greenwood | Jan 21 2023 9:25 utc | 165
By way of comparison, the US economy is $21T and growing. Posted by: Scuppers | Jan 21 2023 10:04 utc | 176 Ergo – how will Ukraine maintain advanced armoured systems from Germany ? Posted by: rk | Jan 21 2023 10:06 utc | 177 @ Richard Steven Hack | Jan 21 2023 7:47 utc | 139 Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 21 2023 10:06 utc | 178 @ Yogi | Jan 21 2023 9:42 utc | 170
It seems German Chancellor Scholtz turns out to be a good guy after all with him not letting German tanks in Ukraine. Posted by: Smith | Jan 21 2023 10:30 utc | 180 By way of comparison, the US economy is $21T and growing. Posted by: Colin | Jan 21 2023 10:47 utc | 181 Muthaucker @ 81
The other side of a debt is an asset, IOW someone’s debit is someone’s credit. So, the giant shit pile of debt in America, private, corporate, medical, student loan, real estate, Big Short liar loan mortgages, zombie corporation stock buy backs, stock market asset inflation, home credit lines on top of excessive mortages, etc, to infinity and beyond is factored into that $21T USA economy. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 21 2023 10:49 utc | 182 @ Smith | Jan 21 2023 10:30 utc | 180 Posted by: John Kennard | Jan 21 2023 10:57 utc | 183 Smith @ 180
Oh, relax, it’s only act 3 of the 5 act Kabuki. The west must always play hesitant and restrained, Scholtz is the coy but lustful “virgin”. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 21 2023 11:03 utc | 184 Correction @182: …the entire American Ruse not mark to market… Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 21 2023 11:08 utc | 185 Re: Posted by: watcher | Jan 20 2023 21:56 utc | 53
Nope – you’re out by about 20 years. Posted by: Julian | Jan 21 2023 11:31 utc | 186
Posted by: Down South | Jan 21 2023 11:39 utc | 187 Julian @ 186
And when that proved insufficient to fund the elite bacchanalia the USA applied debt vassalage to their own people, debt slavery, neo-feudalism financial serfdom. Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 21 2023 12:00 utc | 188 Posted by: Julian | Jan 21 2023 11:31 utc | 186 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jan 21 2023 12:01 utc | 189 Which Leclerc model I wonder, the armour-lite variant or the one with the maximum armour package? Those with any knowledge more than internet-deep will know to what I allude. Posted by: Milites | Jan 21 2023 12:08 utc | 190 Mercouris & others downplay western propaganda, then turn around and believe the blurb that the west is running out of weapons. Posted by: SIXTUS V | Jan 21 2023 12:14 utc | 191 Paul Greenwood @ 189
Needlessly harsh, revealing something to others is not the same as finding it a revelation. And, what exactly is bad with finding a revelation? Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 21 2023 12:27 utc | 192 Posted by: Julian | Jan 21 2023 11:31 utc | 186 Posted by: watcher | Jan 21 2023 12:35 utc | 193 21 trillions is the running bill/joke for turning Uncle Sam into Uncle Samantha (but she kept the beard, in fairness it is a good beard —better than mine). Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jan 21 2023 12:37 utc | 194 Posted by: watcher | Jan 21 2023 12:35 utc | 193 Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jan 21 2023 12:39 utc | 195 Watcher [193] Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jan 21 2023 12:47 utc | 196 The Soviets never threw away equipment, preferring to put it into storage, hence the TOE of a Category III division was like reading museum exhibit cards. Useful against irradiated NATO remnants, or equally decrepit NATO territorial units, but worthless against the top tier. Having a surplus is only useful if it can hope to counter the threat, otherwise it’s mainly designed to be a morale booster and not a significant contributor to any tactical success. Posted by: Milites | Jan 21 2023 12:56 utc | 197 @: Outraged | Jan 21 2023 10:16 utc | 179 Posted by: Yogi | Jan 21 2023 13:10 utc | 198 RU making yet more incremental advances S (Klischeevka) and N of Bakhmut city. The real story may turn out to be not the eventual capture of Bakhmut itself, but those 25 brigades that Ukraine deployed around the city, in that area. Many of them may already after months be shattered, but if remnants are held in position, they will be completely dismantled. If they are withdrawn, they’ll too become subject to bombardment in the open, as the defenders inside Bakhmut. There’s no hurry here. Posted by: unimperator | Jan 21 2023 13:22 utc | 199 Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 21 2023 10:06 utc | 178 Posted by: Opport Knocks | Jan 21 2023 13:29 utc | 200 |
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