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January 15, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-15
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reply to 182
We haven’t heard anything about this but what about isolated or ethnic enclave areas? How do Hungarian related villages react?
As for NATO forces, I wonder about that also. Many of them seem to be fools who fantasize about killing Russians. I also note that in Germany and other nations, there is a lack of eagerness to be in the military.
Posted by: Eighthman | Jan 16 2023 13:10 utc | 201
Scouts of the 3rd Obspn destroyed 2 enemy sabotage and evacuation groups at the same point. The footage is published by the People’s Militia of the DPR.
On January 9, scouts of the 3rd Guards Special Purpose Battalion, during reconnaissance at night, using a thermal imager, revealed the movement of an enemy sabotage group. The group was destroyed by a shot from an anti-tank missile system, also equipped with a thermal imaging sight. Despite this, the next day the enemy command sent another group along the same route, which was also hit by ATGMs. This time, an evacuation group was also sent for the bodies of the killed militants, which was also destroyed.
https://t.me/DonbassDevushka/40833
Boneheads never learn.
Posted by: unimperator | Jan 16 2023 13:11 utc | 202
Regarding Nazi collaboration of Ukrainians back then and now, there is a website that lists NAZI-COLLABORATOR MONUMENTS all over the planet, be it Russia or Ukraine.
https://forward.com/series/nazi-collaborator-monuments-around-the-world/?amp=1
The one from Ukraine, which is updated on a regular basis, as various Ukrainian cities rename streets and places every other day, is long and shocking:
https://forward.com/news/462916/nazi-collaborator-monuments-in-ukraine/?amp=1/
You won’t hear anything about that in the West.
Posted by: CM of Berlin | Jan 16 2023 13:12 utc | 203
unimperator | Jan 16 2023 9:51 utc | 188
Much better for the bodies of the dead be left to rot on the battlefield and listed missing. Once they are officially KIA compensation is paid to next of kin.
Seeing some of the videos coming out now – ukroid bodies in some cases laying literally in heaps where they fell – and I think about the cause they are fighting and dying for. I have no more sympathy for our nazi proxies as I do our islamic extremist proxies.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 16 2023 13:15 utc | 204
Further up were a few comments on bombing thermal power plants ..
Electrical grids are extremely large, complex and expensive. Cutting off power to the country is a good war strategy — and it is one of the first things the USA would have done as part of shock and awe. However, if you plan to control the area after the war and don’t want to be managing a failed state then you only want to destroy as much as absolutely necessary because you will have to rebuild it yourself.
Initially lower voltage substations were hit. Because of redundancy in the system and huge generation capacity, the blackouts didn’t last long. More recently, higher voltage substations were taken out. These are more expensive to replace. Power still managed to get rerouted and rationed with rotating blackouts.
The 3rd escalation is to destroy thermal power plants themselves. Some thermal plants can be rapidly ramped up, so perhaps they were managing to stabilize the grid and now they need to go. Some are also combined heat/power like ConEdison in Manhattan where steam is used to heat the city.
So — destroy only what you absolutely have to, start with low voltage substations, then high voltage substations, then selected thermal plants. Meanwhile, be careful not to destabilize the nuclear plants before they can be safely shut down. All of this done with careful planning with a team of electrical engineers and pinpoint strikes on selected equipment.
I expect that more thermal plants will be bombed soon until the rotating blackouts in large cities become permanent (until Russia takes over after the war).
Posted by: PP | Jan 16 2023 13:18 utc | 205
unimperator@202…body retrieval, hmm, Ukies don’t lift their dead, likely the international battalion aka Mercs In Body Bags.
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Jan 16 2023 13:20 utc | 206
Re: Ukrainian Demographics etc
Note: 2/3s of working age Ukrainians left the country were already living abroad in 2021. Also note, that 1/2 of the 2022 refugees decided to flee to Russia. Finally note, that ~10 million peoplr live in the 4 Oblast that arguably want nothing to do with Kiev.
Conclusion: it appears, a minority of the population of Ukraine are rabid Banderites. Not certain, but sure seems like a majority of the population voted with their feet.
Posted by: Exile | Jan 16 2023 13:22 utc | 207
marcjf | Jan 16 2023 8:10 utc | 186 + others
Tanks: why are we sending?
Because this sloSMO is very much *NOT* the war U$NATO spent the past 8 years lusting for.
2022: Ukraine/NATO was increasing the shelling provocations along the LOC.
After rasputitsa Putin was expected to rush headlong into the NATO fortifications across the LOC.
While his troops were impaling themselves on the fortifications in Donbass, NATO, with its well prepped HQ in Mariupol, was going to swoop in from Costanza and Odessa and take Crimea.
Putin didn’t wait till end March….. He went early, took NATO by surprise, and did a Zerg-rush to Kiev, the biolabs the NPPs and Kherson.
NATO has never really recovered the initiative.
Sure, Russia has incurred set backs, and made mistakes, but most of all, it has not fought the sloSMO at all like NATO had it planned.
{“Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth”}
The sanctions have failed. The ruble was supposed to be rubble inside a month.
Russia was expected to quickly crumble and fail.
U$NATO never ever ever expected to be fighting an artillery war In Russia’s backyard for a whole year.
They cannot fight a war without air support/superiority.
Now the EU economies are stretched and stressed.
The military arsenal is stretched and stressed.
And the EU U$ NATO just absolutely cannot back down, take an off ramp, or negotiate.
All they know is double down double down double down.
They never prepped for this type of war.
They now have no clue.
It’s only slowly dawning that they have believed their own bullshit
Just how outgunned and out of their depth is only now becoming apparent.
They are slowly panicking.
Someone in the media and twitter said “send tanks”.
The ukie banshee chorus took up the call.
So, they’ve agreed to tanks. Because Wunder-waffle.
But then, those with a modicum of sense and real world practicality have asked the same questions and issues raised here…..
So, Why are they sending tanks?
Because they must “do something”.
And someone in the media said “send tanks”.
It’s both that simple and that simplistic.
I hope they do. Send tanks.
It’ll be an absolute total fucking disaster…
After they’ve lost 100 or so tanks (along with slyly inserted NATO tank crews.){IMO they don’t have enough ukies for the tanks, so they’ll sneak in some NATO tankies/ thinking the Russians won’t know. The Russians will know, but if they can kill NATO tankies in Ukraine…so, easier/ almost no risk rather than killing tankies in Poland or elsewhere}…
Send tanks. Fail. Then, I think the “double down” strategy will finally run its course, and some real sensible reappraisal can begin.
Maybe some serious negotiations in Oct 23?… or EU will be facing another winter, and will HAARP deliver again???
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jan 16 2023 13:27 utc | 208
Christophe Nicolas no. 197
Vous croyez que c’est un châtiment? Peut-être.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jan 16 2023 13:28 utc | 209
Posted by: Yuri | Jan 16 2023 2:49 utc | 151
Thank you Yuri for sharing that. I learnt much, having never been to Ukraine and only to St Petersburg and Moscow for a few days. Understanding the historical basis of attitudes in the present is vital for seeking ways of now co-existing. Do we have to go through another hundred years war before re-inventing the Treaty of Westphalia.
Please contribute again. You have much to offer.
Posted by: Marduk | Jan 16 2023 13:28 utc | 210
@ PeterAU1 204
There seems to be a few comments trying to suggest that this war between the US and Russia was in fact an organic, natural, civil war, the same bs which we were fed about Yugoslavia, Egypt, Libya, Syria and Somalia. Poof. How come each Arab Zebedee was boinged into action by USUKIS snipers shooting randomly at civilians and police?
Not surprising to find the cat pooping in the world’s garden trying to cover its poopoo with a bit of earth. Thereupon most people accept the narrative of Evil Russian intervention is that all they see is a bunch of failed state morons in Easy Rider fancy dress being randomly attacked by Putin, instead of being allowed to finish
their pints and dally in middle-aged dreams of freedom.
They have obviously had their eyes , ears and moral antennae switched off 35 years since Yugoslavia, or more, not to have noticed that USUKIS creates and uses poisonous proxies.
I for one am not buying that Vladimir Putin is mad enough to launch WW3 on the basis of an unprovoked and natural eruption of neighbour hippie Nazism . Let’s have some LED Zepoelin and Black Sabbath to cheer the Rockin Nazis on, poor things.
Posted by: Giyane | Jan 16 2023 13:54 utc | 211
Posted by: Melaleuca | Jan 16 2023 13:27 utc | 208
Thanks for this. FWIW I tend to think there will be no negotiations now. The west is not agreement capable, and so will simply have to follow instructions. Although Putin is wise enough not to humiliate the losers, and may pretend that there were negotiations for form’s sake.
Posted by: Tim | Jan 16 2023 13:54 utc | 212
Medvedchuk is build up as future Ukraine head:
https://www.rt.com/russia/569934-medvedchuk-ukraine-war-party/
Sorry if this has been already posted..
Posted by: C | Jan 16 2023 14:05 utc | 213
Since we are talking about the use of tanks on the battlefield, let’s fast forward 7 years ago. On October 8, 2015, social networks rejoiced: “Government forces advanced 70 km north of the city of Hama in a day and liberated the city of Kafr Nabuda.”
Russia officially fought in Syria for a little over a week. The Russian advisers, having developed a plan, concentrated an armored fist on the plains of Hama and decided to crush the enemy’s Latamin bridgehead with one throw. To be honest, the official reports poorly reflected reality. There was no question of any advancement of 70 km. This offensive turned into a rout (Kafr Naboudou will be released only in 2019). American TOW systems destroyed a lot of Syrian armor, which led to the surrender of the city of Murek and a number of other villages. Even then it was necessary to realize that the Soviet dogma “Tank wedges to the English Channel” was outdated.
The Syrians in subsequent years (largely without our participation) rethought the meaning of the tank on the battlefield and began to act effectively. In open spaces, the platoon received a tank under its command. The infantrymen went forward, identified enemy firing points and called in their armor to destroy them. The soldiers went ahead of the tanks, which significantly reduced the loss of vehicles on the plains.
In the cities, tactics changed. Each tank had its own ground gunner. He hung a copter over an armored vehicle and contacted the infantry. The gunner, seeing the whole picture of the battle, literally told the tankers to turn the barrel to the right by 30 degrees and put 3 shells in the next entrance. Such interaction made it possible to break through the enemy’s fortifications even in close Arab buildings.
As I have repeatedly said, the Syrian experience taught us nothing, so on February 24, armored columns went forward, which had practically no connection with the infantrymen. The losses of those days can be judged by numerous videos on enemy resources.
Now the Russian army has to gnaw through enemy defenses in depth, so the meaning and use of the tank on the battlefield must be rethought. Stop stepping on a rake and throwing armored fists forward. We already have enough examples of successful offensives.
I was in the spring near Izyum. They tried to liberate the fucking Kamenka with tank strikes … As a result, this tactic completely failed and the special forces cleared the village on foot. The Wagners, which have been talked about so much lately, are also advancing in small groups of infantry. Neither Popasnaya nor Soledar were taken head-on by a tank attack.
So what should be done? Firstly, abandon the tactics of tank breakthroughs. Secondly, each tank must be assigned a ground gunner. He must ensure coordination between the steel monster and the infantry. Thirdly, each tank must lead its own copter. The cost of such innovations will be minimal compared to the cost of machines, and efficiency will increase significantly.
Alexander Kharchenko
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/29147
Posted by: Down South | Jan 16 2023 14:17 utc | 214
“Boneheads never learn.
Posted by: unimperator | Jan 16 2023 13:11 utc | 202”
The commanders’ intention is to annihilate the Ukrainian forces. Make Blackrock’s investment less likely to be challenged. In this, they have been successful.
Posted by: osi | Jan 16 2023 14:26 utc | 215
Posted by: Ed | Jan 16 2023 3:25 utc | 164
The movie Threads is available on Tubi, the free internet movie site.
I just watched the trailer, oh my God, this should be required watching for everyone, especially the “elites.”
Thanks for posting this, I will watch it today.
Posted by: morongobill | Jan 16 2023 14:48 utc | 216
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/16/german-defence-minister-christine-lambrecht-quits
😂😂😂😂😂
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jan 16 2023 14:52 utc | 217
How is this possible ? A major oil producer is at war and oil prices drop ? If the Sauis were being hit with missle stikes oil would shoot through the roof.
– Russian oil selling below Western price cap – finance ministry –
https://www.rt.com/business/569937-russian-oil-western-price-cap/
Posted by: Deplorable Commisar | Jan 16 2023 14:53 utc | 218
“There is an e-book free of charge that highlights some of these problems. You can download on your kindle. It is called: RADHIKA DESAI, Capitalism, Coronavirus and War. A geopolitical economy.
Posted by: Teraspol | Jan 15 2023 19:12 utc | 48
_______
Thanks Teraspol. Link to Desai’s book:
https://tinyurl.com/y8r4bde3
Posted by: Doug Hillman | Jan 16 2023 14:56 utc | 219
Also, what is important to know is that many of the current nationalists come from eastern and central parts of Ukraine. They are the product of the 90s. It’s the people in their 30-40s who bow down to the West including Galicia. They see Galician architecture and then look at plants of Krivoy Rog and Zaporozh’ye and start hating their past. The money was always in the East but people there wanted to simulate the westerners because everything soviet is too low for them, it’s about working class and everything western is civilised and refined. Zelensky is a good example. Greed made Ukrainians forget their own roots. This hatred towards everything Russian peaked in 90s despite Russia investing millions of dollars into Ukraine and despite that millions of Ukrainians had to go to work to Russia especially before 2014.
Posted by: Yuri | Jan 16 2023 2:49 utc | 151
Thank you for your post, and I want to pick up on this because it is one of the most overlooked aspects of the whole situation — there is a class division undercurrent to it as eastern Ukraine is where the heavy industry (and thus the real wealth) is while western Ukraine was always much poorer and didn’t have much in terms of industry.
What that then meant is that in the last few decades western Ukraine is where the Ukrainian counterparts of the Western liberal parasite classes set up shop — there wasn’t room for that in eastern Ukraine as people there were busy working hard in the mines and the factories. Agriculture is also centered on the Russian-speaking areas — Galicia had always been very poor agriculturally, going back to Astro-Hungarian times, while southern Ukraine is where the most productive lands are. Novorossyia = Donbass (heavy industry) + southern Ukraine (agriculture). Western Ukraine on the other hand never produced much.
So aside from all the other reasons for establishing their unholy alliance, this factor also played a huge role for bringing western Ukraine together with the liberal classes in the West (and the militant conservatives too, of course, but that is for geostrategic, not cultural reasons in that case).
And it feeds heavily into the process of dehumanization of the other side — the same way that the parasite classes on the US East and West coasts look down on the manual workers in the vast industrial and agricultural Rust/Oil/Coal/Corn belts in between the coasts as uneducated untermensch, people in western Ukraine developed a disdain for those on the other side of the country. Only it was much worse because that layered on top of some of the most rabid nationalism on the planet…
Posted by: shadowbanned | Jan 16 2023 15:00 utc | 220
Posted by: Yuri | Jan 16 2023 5:38 utc | 179
Thank you for taking the time to give us some of your history and stories. please tell us more…
Posted by: migueljose | Jan 16 2023 15:35 utc | 221
How is this possible ? A major oil producer is at war and oil prices drop ? If the Sauis were being hit with missle stikes oil would shoot through the roof.
– Russian oil selling below Western price cap – finance ministry –
https://www.rt.com/business/569937-russian-oil-western-price-cap/
Posted by: Deplorable Commisar | Jan 16 2023 14:53 utc | 218
Posted Price is irrelevant. What matters is volume traded at what price. The oil market is so opaque when Glencore and other traders get busy that you have no idea what volumes are actually moving at what prices. Just relying on headlines gets you nowhere.
I bet there are huge side-deals especially since US cannot re-stock its Strategic Oil reserve at these posted prices and may never be able to replace what Biden released.
There are no transparent markets to base your assumptions on. I have no doubt Russia like Saudi will be throttling back on output because fossil fuels have a long term future and an upward pricing curve as Europe will discover
Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jan 16 2023 15:49 utc | 222
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 16 2023 2:30 utc | 147
That Islam was spread by force is a Catholic/Christian piece of propaganda. It took 200 years for 50% of the populations assumed into the Islamic empire to convert to Islam, and the incentive to convert was lower taxes, not physical force. Moreover, the non-pagan population (Christians and Jews) had a constitutional/Koranic guarantee to be allowed to practice their religion. If, and exceptional cases aside, there was conversion by force, like that of Saint Olaf and the Teutonic Knights in the Baltics, (that of Shabbatai Zevi, was advised to the Turkish Sultan by Jewish advisors), the historic conversion would have have gone much faster. Also, conversion never reached 100% viz Egypt, Syria, Iraq, etc. In Muslim Spain, which was completely under the control of Sephardic (Phoenician) Jews, the original Northern Kingdom, the conversion of Christians (not to mention Jews) to Islam was even less given the fact that the country reverted. But look at what happened when the Catholics took over (although they had good reason to do what they did given what they were up against). The Catholics in the Baltics and Poland even forced the Orthodox Christians to convert to Catholicism by violence. The modern world, with its totalitarianism, is a different kettle of fish.
Posted by: Casca | Jan 16 2023 15:51 utc | 223
“I’ve been sanctioned by the Russian government. Good. If this is the price for supporting Ukrainian freedom, then I’m happy to be sanctioned #SlavaUkraini”
James (not so) Cleverley. The comments on his twit account are priceless. What a bigger wanker than boris.
Posted by: ThusspakeZarathustra | Jan 16 2023 16:00 utc | 224
@ 208:
Thats how it is. Concerning your remarks towards the relationship between most of our current »politicians« and their media: If remembering correctly, already Otto von Bismarck had described the processes regarding politicians and media in case of (pre-) war as kindof a self-enhancing loop – those politicians believing & echoing by word and deed exactly that shit they themselves had told their media (with their sofa- and sedan-generals of both sexes) one or two days ago. Best solution possible to disrupt or even stop that would be nabbing some (but very special) of these guys and »girls« (i. e. »politicians« *and* those trumpeters of war in the media) & charter them via first-class-train directly to Donbass. But that needed resolute populaces in the West of the famous Values.
Posted by: Yogi | Jan 16 2023 16:04 utc | 225
shadowbanned@220
It is important too that the diaspora of “Ukrainians” in north america, who are very powerful groups long patronised by the CIA and Canadian government, are generally descendants of the post WWII emigrants-Nazi collaborators or young men caught up in the conscription process of the war when their western homeland was largely occupied by Germany.
These people, wealthy, influential and closely tied, through anti-communist organisations, to NATO governments were involved, deeply, in the Maidan and, before that in right wing politics in Ukraine. They served as a ready made force of, Ukrainian speaking, shock troops-in business and education- which could be brought into the country to prime the pump of ideology in which the young people of Ukraine were immersed.
Posted by: bevin | Jan 16 2023 16:05 utc | 226
Posted by: Vikichka | Jan 16 2023 7:26 utc | 185
We do know something. Or we can know something if we really, really want to know something. And what we can really know is not because of the Bible, but despite it. But if you, as you say, know nothing, not even what happened two years ago, why insist that what I know is “belief” whereas what you think you know is truth?
Posted by: casca | Jan 16 2023 16:08 utc | 227
Hm, so no German Leopards for Ukraine at this time, because they are not ready yet. That’s too bad.
But until they are, can’t we send other species to bridge the gap?
We do have Lynx in Germany, allegedly. But with those, I guess it would also take a lot of time to get them ready. You know, collect them from the forests, prepare them for the task ahead and so on. So Lynx are out of the question, at least for now.
But how about, well, ordinary cats, Hauskatzen? We have plenty of those. They may not be too impressive individually, but in numbers they sure would make a difference. And we wouldn’t have to send every cat. Many cat owners have several of them. Just send conscription orders to cats that are second or third house cats. That should make a difference. I’ve watched videos of individual cats chasing off alligators. So in numbers they should be able to pester the Russian bear sufficiently, don’t you think? And what were the owners going to do with them anyway? They are dangerous instruments of war, they shouldn’t be in someone’s home to begin with.
Posted by: Scotch Bingeington | Jan 16 2023 16:19 utc | 228
@ Bob Jenkins [134]
How long have they [Israel] been threatening to attack Iran? If their armed forces are so amazing, why haven’t they done it yet? Because they can’t, that’s why.
Yes, that’s very clear.
Iran may well already have nukes, …
This is dishonest malarky but it has to be confronted every time it shows up, because someday it could serve as a false flag to attack Iran.
Sincere people spout this malarky because they misunderstand Iran’s real threat to Israel. Iran’s power (and threat) is the appeal of the Islamic “revolution” within the Muslim world and the power of a good example – Iran’s steadfast goal of liberating Palestine. Iran resists, hasn’t been slapped down and can’t be, so Palestine will eventually be freed. OF course Iran’s military hardware and soldiers have a supporting role, but it’s not the main spearhead. Islamic theology is the spearhead.
Here is what you do not understand: If Iran was ever found to possess even one nuclear weapon, or any other WMD for that matter, then the Iranian revolution would be defeated strategically because a WMD would turn Iran’s leaders into hypocrites like other leaders. You should never forget that no less a leader than the late Ayatollah Khomeni issued a fatwa that WMD’s are harim, immoral and forbidden.
Beyond the rhetoric, there is zero evidence for any Iranian nuclear weapon. The IAEA has had Iran under much tighter oversight than any other nation. Worse, when Israel gave the IAEA a fake “stolen laptop computer from Iran” with supposedly incriminating documents, for years the lying IAEA refused to even acknowledge that this infamous laptop was a gift from Israel’s “spies”.
Iran is winning, slow and steady, so Iran has no reason to overturn the chessboard by violating Khomeni’s fatwa.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Jan 16 2023 16:22 utc | 229
@ osi 215
Is life So cheap? I can see no other explanation for it than as you say, culling the peasants in order to make the legal transfer of Ukraine to Khazaria simpler.
The banality of evil. Nobody to witness the Faustian Pact than the Big One , no, not that dribbling rat urine in Washington.
Posted by: Giyane | Jan 16 2023 16:27 utc | 230
aristodemos | Jan 15 2023 20:08 utc | 61
________
There appear to be two books by Deanna Spingola:
The Ruling Elite: A Study in Imperialism, Genocide and Emancipation (2011)
The Ruling Elite: The Zionist Seizure of World Power (2012)
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-ruling-elite-deanna-spingola/1111610907?ean=9781466918597#
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ruling-elite-deanna-spingola/1100089712;jsessionid=DC148C7DF81F62ACCC1590F0E71E48E5.prodny_store02-atgap01?ean=9781426960635#
Posted by: Doug Hillman | Jan 16 2023 16:32 utc | 231
“..Iran may well already have nukes, …
This is dishonest malarky but it has to be confronted every time it shows up, because someday it could serve as a false flag to attack Iran.” JessDtruth
Very true. But surely Iran is under the nuclear umbrella of the SCO?
Posted by: bevin | Jan 16 2023 16:39 utc | 232
@ JessDTruth 229
Shi’a Islam isn’t Islam. Our prophet Muhammad SAW was informed by the Qur’an that if he witheld one statement from the Qur’an it would be as if his prophet hood was cancelled. The Shi’a conceal much of the Qur’an which makes it look more attractive to non Muslims in the same way that other religions do.
The Qur’an totally negates the claims of the Jews and Christians to be the truth becausevthey both omit the cornerstone of Islam ‘ la ilaha illAllah, Muhammad ur Rasullah ‘ Only Allah alone is to be worshipped, according to the sunnah of our prophet SAW.
I can’t say that Iran is with the Jews, just that it is one of the Jews’ bootlaces that preserves the deception of Israel’s right to Palestine, which was cancelled after their rejection of Christ pbuh.
Like USUKIS secretly preserving Nazism in Ukraine for the purpose of destroying Russia in the Great Game, Shi’a Islam preserves the Jews’ and Christian’s BIG mistakes. Compelling maybe but Pointless.
Posted by: Giyane | Jan 16 2023 16:53 utc | 233
Specifically , the big mistake of the Shi’a is to place their tradition in the Thor > Viking style of authority God > King.
Divine delegating to human. TRIPE.
The second big mistake isn’t cancel sexual fidelity which is one half of a Muslim’s faith. How could one man make so many ladies unhappy? they said about a popular Iranian singer.
Posted by: Giyane | Jan 16 2023 17:00 utc | 234
So you’ve got me bursting with desire to learn their names – and how old is your source, and have there been changes?
Posted by: grunzt | Jan 15 2023 19:54 utc | 56
Deanna Spingola’s huge and deeply researched/footnoted “The Ruling Elite”. The PTB are doing all they can to make that book unavailable.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 15 2023 20:08 utc | 61
you can get it at Amazon
Posted by: dan of steele | Jan 15 2023 20:20 utc | 66
Available from Amazon.ca for 13.99 CAD for the kindle version.
Posted by: nwwoods | Jan 15 2023 22:15 utc | 92
Currently listed at $2.99 ebook at Barnes and Noble. Or $8.99 Kindle at Amazon.
Posted by: JohninMK | Jan 15 2023 23:16 utc | 106
That book is available for free here: https://annas-archive.org/md5/43f15b009f29d09d7131877bf1e9a679
Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | Jan 16 2023 10:04 utc | 191
There appear to be two books by Deanna Spingola:
Posted by: Doug Hillman | Jan 16 2023 16:32 utc | 233
It’s a trilogy:
Deanna Spingola – The Ruling Elite Vol 1. A Study in Imperialism, Genocide and Emancipation
Deanna Spingola – The Ruling Elite Vol 2. The Zionist Seizure of World Power
Deanna Spingola – The Ruling Elite Vol 3. Death, Destruction and Domination
And it’s free @ D. Spingola
Posted by: waynorinorway | Jan 16 2023 17:37 utc | 235
osi @216
Very confusing posting. If Ukie forces are to be eliminated, how would this be positive for Blackrock? Currently, it would appear that Blackrock (a front organization whose ownership is never revealed) is the purported owner of the Puppet Regime in Kiev.Would you please clear up this posting and explain what’s what?
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 16 2023 17:53 utc | 236
Casca @225
When you note the special treatment for fellow “believers” (Christians and Jews), but not for “Pagans”, you are revealing something evil about all the Abrahamic “faiths”…rather imposed belief systems. Those they decry as “Pagans” are people who have not become deracinated, who follow the traditions of their forbears to remain connected with the natural world and also adhering to a Cosmic vision.
Whether imposed directly by the sword, by general social pressure from the converted, or even by taxation, the whole matter of destroying native woodland cultures and replacing same with a “Holy” Book desert religion is a sin against not only the natural world, but also against Creator, the ineffable and not comprehendible by theocratic nonsense.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 16 2023 18:15 utc | 237
Doug Hillman @233
Thanks for the info on Spingola’s follow-up pair of e-books. She may be the most relevant author today.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 16 2023 18:35 utc | 238
Giyan @235
How do you explain the fact that the Wahabi fanatics, working for the CIA and MI6 happen, along with the Salafists, to be Sunni Muslims. Surely those people are evil head-choppers who attack Shias, unconforming Sunnis, Alewites, Christians, Yazidia and all other Muslims and non-Muslims whom the find to be in violation of their doctrinal beliefs. How do you reconcile these demonic entities with your own Sunni beliefs?
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 16 2023 18:41 utc | 239
@ aristodemos | Jan 16 2023 18:35 utc | 240
Thanks for the info on Spingola’s follow-up pair of e-books.
Those two are not follow-ups, they precede Death, Destruction and Domination.
(waynorinorway | Jan 16 2023 17:37 utc | 237)
I agree she’s very good, with almost obsessive documentaion.
Posted by: waynorinorway | Jan 16 2023 19:00 utc | 240
Posted by: Casca | Jan 16 2023 15:51 utc | 225
Islam shares the same problem Liberalism has, in that it is an ontology of violence whose dogma insists it must destroy what came before it to fulfill the will of the highest thing.
Individual Muslims and individual Liberals can be perfectly nice and chose to live lives of peace with their neighbours but the essence of their belief system remains murderous.
They are both heretical and anathema. Do not be deceived.
Posted by: Northern Observer | Jan 16 2023 19:21 utc | 241
@ aristodemos 241
The Vikings encountered Islam and used headgear with Allah and Ali on them in burials. They must have asked the name of the God and the name of the king.
A person must have authority and knowledge to be a leader, and the humility to make consultation with others. But authority is not delegated or shared by God. He is capable of doing all things in real time. If a leader is convinced by the Qur’an and teaching of the prophet saw he/ she with women acts accordingly and hopes their decision will be accepted.
Not just bung old men in prison to rot , not to side with USUKIS . Not to wage war on other types of Muslims. Its a freak show of arrogance racism bigotry fascism criminality and oppression.
Patans demonstrating against the rulings on women by Taliban hierarchy in Birmingham yesterday.
Saudi society is riddled with divorce and substance abuse because nobody can live under this vicarious regime.
Posted by: Giyane | Jan 16 2023 20:04 utc | 242
I have read here that Zelensky has amassed $800,000,000 – $1 billion.
I have read here that the average monthly income for a Ukrainian worker before 2019 was $150 [per month!] . Please correct me if these are incorrect or unreliable data. The advertising revenue from the TV network where Zelensky worked as the main character in “servant of the people” could not have been astronomical .
The MSM does not talk about Zelensky’s newly acquired wealth for some reason.
Posted by: Bartholomew Cubbins | Jan 16 2023 20:21 utc | 243
@231 JessDtruth
So is taking what I said out of context, if you are going to quote me, quote the whole statement, don’t cherry pick and then dismiss the part you cherry picked as ‘malarky’.
I very clearly qualified that. I do not know whether Iran has nuclear weapons or not, but if you expect me to believe that they don’t simply because of hard felt religious beliefs, you’re talking to the wrong guy.
Where I absolutely agree with you is in regard to Iran using a nuclear weapon (if they happen to have one), and again, I was clear that there is only one scenario where I see that possibly happening, and that is in the case of an Israeli attack on Iran (which I seriously doubt will ever happen, although not impossible, but as I said, the one point that you have to remember is that all these people are cowards of the highest order, they do not like an even playing field).
Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Jan 16 2023 20:42 utc | 244
@ Melaleuca, # 210
Nice action! That was a pretty good “pearl”….
Posted by: DakotaRog | Jan 16 2023 21:10 utc | 245
But if you, as you say, know nothing, not even what happened two years ago, why insist that what I know is “belief” whereas what you think you know is truth?
Posted by: casca | Jan 16 2023 16:08 utc | 229
Like Socrates said, I know that I don’t know. I don’t know, but I believe. You have no idea what happened 2000 years ago. You can’t know. You simply choose to believe the source you like most.
Posted by: Vikichka | Jan 16 2023 21:15 utc | 246
@Bob Jenkins | Jan 16 2023 20:42 utc | 246
The Iranians take their religious obligations seriously. US intelligence has “high confidence” that Iran has not developed, and is not developing a nuclear weapons.
They don’t need to develop nuclear weapons. Iran can destroy the oil infrastructure of the Middle East with a single salvo of missiles, which will end the West economically. Iran would still have sufficient missiles left over to level Israel.
Which means that Iran will not be attacked by sane people. Insane people might try to convince the world that attacking Iran with a nuclear first strike is justifiable, but Iran is now in a security alliance with Russia and China, so that would be a terrible idea. Particularly as the USSR ended two Israeli attacks, by warning the USA that it would use nuclear weapons on Israel if the attacks were not ended.
Posted by: Hermit | Jan 16 2023 21:22 utc | 247
@249 Hermit
Yup, agree with all of that and said as much.
Just as an aside, I trust US ‘intelligence’ about as far as I can throw it.
Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Jan 16 2023 21:25 utc | 248
Bob Jenkins | Jan 16 2023 21:25 utc | 250
Agreed on “US Intelligence” but there are worse. The butchers of House of Saud, Shin Bet and Mossad spring to mind. A pox on all their houses.
Posted by: Hermit | Jan 16 2023 21:31 utc | 249
@249 Hermit
Yes, I think it is just ‘degrees of bad’ in the case of intelligence agencies sadly.
Cheers 🙂
Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Jan 16 2023 21:32 utc | 250
From a friend’s aggregator site (linked to the name Scorpion):
https://rmx.news/defense/russia-sends-its-biggest-gun-to-ukraine/
Dubbed the “Sledgehammer,” the self-propelled 2S4 Tyulpan mortar, known as the Tulip in English, has a 240mm cannon — twice the caliber of NATO mortars, which are just 120mm — making it by far the largest caliber mortar system in the world. Carried on its own tracks, it has a range of 19 kilometers and is used to destroy large fortifications, military equipment, or strategic positions.
The 2S4 Tulip self-propelled mortar is capable of firing nuclear bombs, but this is likely to be limited to “micro-nuclear bombs” designed to destroy an area the size of a football stadium. It can also fire armor-piercing, laser-guided, and prohibited cluster munitions, as well as tactical nuclear bombs, according to Hungarian news outlet Ziare.
“It is a massive weapon, devastating when conventional weapons are used, capable of destroying a large area. But it would also make a very large target for Ukrainian artillery and drone crews, who hunt for offensive equipment on a daily basis,” a security expert told the Daily Mirror.
“The mortar is capable of targeting an out-of-sight target with bombs that would be extremely difficult if not impossible to intercept,” he explained.
Ukrainian forces have targeted the mortar system on the battlefield, and some footage from drone operators has shown a number of the weapons knocked out.
@ Northern Observer 243
Whatever does ontological mean?
I think what you mean is that by its very nature Islam is aggressive.
Islam sees the nature of existence to be by God’s Will. He commands atoms to exist and science confirms that other smaller things electrons appear to exist, but not atoms, and so on and so on. It makes sense that beyond our understanding existence might well be simply a command from God to exist / not exist.
So the aggression in Islam’s eyes is from those vast majority of human beings whobrefusevto acknowledge God’s continual sustain and support of every aspect of existence.
After denying God’s Living sustaining of Creation they go on to deny the rules sent down through the prophets peace be upon them for our worship of the sustainer and our relationship to other human and other beings. Again it is thecdenial of these instructions on how to behave that is the act of aggression.
So when it comes to inciting violence, racism and murder ad the USvhas done in Ukraine, defending ourselves from profanity by Nazis is not aggression. It is protecting the way of submission.
The West is so far detached from any concept of submission that has become ontologically aggressive. But the same is not true for Muslims, which is how they live peacefully in primitive conditions.
Where Muslims are at fault is when they envy the wealth and power of the Non-Muslims thinking that these substitutes for peace are better than the peace of submission to God..
So yes when they let go of the rope of their faith, they get very aggressive.
That is caused not brother faith, but their abandoning of their faith and following the very inferior gratifications of the non-Muslims.
Innit?
Posted by: Giyane | Jan 16 2023 22:29 utc | 252
@Giyane | Jan 16 2023 16:53 utc | 235
All religions are only as good, or as bad, as their followers. All versions of Islam are as vicious, nasty and antithetical to outsiders as practically all variations of Abrahamic belief including variants followed by judaics and christers.
There are no god thingies, so asserting their backing or authorship is simply an assertion of psychosis, an inability to differentiate between the imaginary and the more than imaginary, differentiated by the fact that there is intersubjectively verifiable evidence for the more than imaginary.
It doesn’t really matter which version of fiction is maintained, even when people imagine that the author was inspired, but the idea that one version of writings, that are admittedly incomplete, changed in the lifetime of the originator and reduced to writing after the death of the originator*, is better than another is unsupportable, no matter how deeply you might believe otherwise.
*Alluding to changed made in Muhammad’s life, the qu’ran itself asserts, “Whenever we abrogate an ayat or cause it to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or equal to it.” (2:106).
We know that the qu’ran of today was edited and distorted According to Islamic tradition, in 651, 19 years after the death of Muhammad, the first caliph, Uthman, commissioned a committee to produce a standard copy of the text of the qu’ran. The resulting qu’ran had 114 suras. Uthman ordered every other version of the qu’ran except his to be burnt. However “the best reciter during the time of Muhammad”, Ubayy bin Ka’b, said his qu’ran had 116 suras – including Al-Hafd and Al-Khal. He also combined 105 and 106. Another companion of Muhammad – Abu Musa al-Ashari agreed with Ubayy and and also included these suras.
The most trusted companion of Muhammad, Ibn Masood, said that his qu’ran had around 110 surahs, omitting surah 1, 113 & 114, which are included Uthman’s qu’ran. He swore that he knew all the surahs of the qu’ran better than anyone else.
In addition Umar Al Khattab, the second Caliph, said (and it was noted down by As-Suyuti):
“Let no one of you say that he has acquired the entire qu’ran, for how does he know that it is all? Much of the qu’ran has been lost, thus let him say, ‘I have acquired of it what is available’” (As-Suyuti, Itqan, part 3, page 72)
So it is no wonder that Aisha, the favorite wife of Muhammad, said:
“During the time of the Prophet, the chapter of the suras used to be two hundred verses when read. When Uthman edited the copies of the qu’ran, only the current (verses) were recorded”.
No copies of Uthman’s qu’ran are extant. The Birmingham qu’ran manuscript, which is possibly the oldest reasonably complete manuscript of the qu’ran in the world has been radiocarbon dated to between the 6th or 7th century (although it may have been written later on earlier materials), putting it at least a century after Muhammad’s death.
Posted by: Hermit | Jan 17 2023 0:25 utc | 253
Nassir Sabah | Jan 16 2023 11:49 utc | 195
Like most religious texts, the qu’ran says anything that the believer wants it to say. It is a source of noise, and what 8s quoted tells you more about the quoter than about the content.
But the bigger questions are what this has to do with the Ukraine, and if as I suspect the answer is ‘nothing’, why is it on this thread at all.
Posted by: Hermit | Jan 17 2023 0:38 utc | 254
Nassir Sabah | Jan 16 2023 11:49 utc | 195
Like most religious texts, the qu’ran says anything that the believer wants it to say. It is a source of noise, and what 8s quoted tells you more about the quoter than about the content.
But the bigger questions are what this has to do with the Ukraine, and if as I suspect the answer is ‘nothing’, why is it on this thread at all.E
Posted by: Hermit | Jan 17 2023 0:38 utc | 255
And it feeds heavily into the process of dehumanization of the other side — the same way that the parasite classes on the US East and West coasts look down on the manual workers in the vast industrial and agricultural Rust/Oil/Coal/Corn belts in between the coasts as uneducated untermensch…
Posted by: shadowbanned | Jan 16 2023 15:00 utc | 222
Thank you for your answer. It’s universal, isn’t it? It’s like a plague. In Russia there are a lot of jokes about untermensch from Ural region.
If you look at politics in Ukraine, you can see that out of all presidents only Kravchuk was from western Ukraine (Rovno oblast). It’s quite interesting. I think major role in disdaining soviet past and that’s why everything Russian played foreign NGOs and various religious sects including the Catholic one. Surely, American soft power like Hollywood industry also played its role like everywhere in the world. I wouldn’t blame western Ukrainians really. They cannot be blamed for existing. It’s not their fault they became a part of Poland centuries ago and then a part of Austro-Hungary. The current people there have nothing to do with that, though they carry a certain mentality and a historical background. I’d rather blame Austro-Hungary and Lenin for advocating Ukraine as a country.
One Latvian friend once has told me about her grandfather being a part of forest brothers movement and she was proud of him. Was she Nazi? For her, her grandfather tried to protect his land and family. There are always reasons why people act in a certain way or choose one side to another. If we know those reasons and a mindset we can always understand that person. We’d probably act the same way, were we them. Even though I don’t want to admit it but I can apply this way of thinking to Azov battalion fighters. It doesn’t mean that what they do is right but it certainly should make us think what made this happened and if these people had any choice. Had they any choice not to be indoctrinated taking their circumstances? And who isn’t indoctrinated? The wars are inherent to humanity. We can only pray to be born on the winning side. Just thinking aloud.
Posted by: Yuri | Jan 17 2023 1:31 utc | 256
Wanted to point out that when an undetected missile hits and there is no nuclear explosion nor radiation* then yes you do actually know that it did not carry a nuclear payload.
As has already been the case in ex-Ukraine, but not yet in the US (not that I find it likely that any attack or counter-attack on the US will take such a form, but it hypothetically could).
At least as of now the US is still supposed to have near-instant detection of nuclear explosions.
* Or if a detected missile hits before any decision is made and there is no nuclear explosion or radiation.
· · ·
OT: music.
Most “hard” music is anti-war and anti-nazi, certainly Black Sabbath was and it would be very weird if Led Zeppelin wasn’t (a certain Medvedev’s favorite band?), even Slayer is anti-war in their own way. Then of course there is the very anti-war groups Testament and Megadeth.
The 1986 (epilepsy warning!) “Megadeth – Peace Sells” (epilepsy warning!) is one of their most famous and popular songs. Find the lyrics somewhere and read them if you don’t understand. At its core it’s a very blues-heavy (all rock originates from blues as a distant or not-so-distant relative) mourning elegy concerning (among other things) how peace sells but nobody is buying.
Feel free to have a look at the comments too.
Top comment from the YouTube video from a 1990 Slayer concert performance of “War Ensemble” is a (general) quote from the band:
“People mistake exposure for glorification. We tell the world what people do to each other. They should be offended, but not by us.”
–Slayer
The song is the opposite of glorification of war, it is about the hell of it.
And as a last example “Testament – WWIII” is simply a musical version of most/all antinuclear films. Maybe someone could “think” that it is (or misunderstand it as) pro-war but I certainly don’t.
There are counter-examples but none come to mind from any “mainstream” (heh) or “big” rock/heavy/metal/thrash/speed/death bands.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jan 17 2023 3:02 utc | 257
@ Hermit 257
The Qur’an is relevant to the schism between Sunni and Shi’a and that schism is highly relevant to the legal framework of the SMO. The Sunnah are interpretable by all. This means that Sunni Muslims are guided by scripture and conscience in the same way as Protestants in the Anglosphere and Orthodox Christians in the Russosphere.
Europeans feel that Russia is European and Russia feels that Europe is its Western spiritual home. The war in Ukraine is devised, planned , implemented etc by Khazarian Jews who have vested interests inthexUkraine and who have also infiltrated US politics.
There never has been any spiritual tension between Russia and Europe or Russia and Sunni Islam. We trust our consciences.
What has changed in this Ukranian conflict is that national loyalties are now dictated solely by shared political.interests rather than ideas.
In recent decades the Khazars, or Zionists, have recruited Saudi Arabia to fund islamist jihadism which is counter- conscience, equally repellant to European , Russian and US ideology. This perversion of both Western and Muslim values has only one goal, to create a Greater Israel , a fantasy, a myth, a chimaera like a Hindu deity. The zionist teritorial claim is bullshit.
Meanwhile, in Europe the Khazarian bullshit zionists have used their old tool of Nazism
to make another fake land grab Ukraine.
Seeing this , and seeing that the Washington Zionists are just as happy to use Pagan proxies as Islamist ones, and to grab any land, not just Middle Eastern Holy land, and they have not delivered Damascus either for the Saudis to greet the second coming of Jesus pbuh, the party is over between Saudi Jihadism and the US.
Stoopid Europe, stoopid England are like
an inflatable dinghy on the English Channel. They have no understanding whatsoever why the 40 year alliance between
Saudi Arabia jihadism and the US has blown apart. This jihadism was van entirely British invention, but the scales have now fallen from Saudi eyes and all options are now politically open.
People of conscience do not like being deceived. It will not happen again. When England and the EU wake up to the current deceit bybthe Khazars about Ukraine the
acquusition of the Ukraine by Zionist private capital, they’re going to go bananas. Dies illla Qua favilla.
On that Day when the Europeans finally realise what Britain has dragged them into, the subjugation of a European sovereign nation by Khazaria ZioNazism.
Bananas. So far, they’re a little behind the curve. Sunak’s 12 measly British outdated tanks has not yet convinced them of what the Saudis see with plain eyes. They’ve been conned.
Posted by: Giyane | Jan 17 2023 4:26 utc | 259
Hermit@256
What you say about the Quran and its interpretation is just obdurate ignorance. But you’re right; this is not the place to discuss such matters. I was only responding to aristodemos@147.
If you are sincerely interested in learning about the Quran and its divine origin, send me your email to hello@nassirsabah.com and I will send you some enlightening material.
Victor
Posted by: Nassir Sabah | Jan 17 2023 5:51 utc | 260
How did this thread get buried under this dung-heap of made-up crap about made-up crap that has nothing whatsoever to do with Ukraine? While slogging through all this religious tripe, it seemed like more than half the posts were obviously off topic here. How about taking it all somewhere where it won’t waste the time of people who want to read about the real world? Like it says at the top, “Please stick to the topic.”
Posted by: Dalit | Jan 17 2023 6:12 utc | 261
243. “Heretical?” and “anathema?” “Do not be deceived?”
Thanks for the warning. I already feel better.
Posted by: casca | Jan 17 2023 12:55 utc | 263
263
If the topic is truth, a number of masks have come off revealing liars.
Posted by: casca | Jan 17 2023 13:00 utc | 264