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January 15, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-15
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For those who thought USA Evangelical shows were the worst.
https://t.me/ninavatt90/18733
…the day when Pussy Riot start looking incarnations of systemic mind
Posted by: Arioch | Jan 15 2023 14:29 utc | 1
2018: “Western Powers Warn Syria Not To Use Chemical Weapons Again” rferl
2022: “Biden, Stoltenberg Warn Of Threat Of Russia Using Chemical Weapons In Ukraine” rferl
As usual, the US is telegraphing it’s covert actions in advance.
When Assad was winning in Syria, chemical weapons appeared.
Are we going to see the same gimmick when Russia is winning in Ukraine?
Posted by: Passerby | Jan 15 2023 15:04 utc | 2
Christopher Miller @ChristopherJM
About that Mirror article that claimed the UK was sending Apache helicopters “armed with deadly hellfire missiles” to Ukraine… the MoD said today in a statement, “This reporting is incorrect.”
And now it seems the Mirror quietly removed the article.
“Oops!”
Posted by: UK Apaches | Jan 15 2023 15:08 utc | 3
Anyone know whether Has Russia switched from attacking transformers to attacking power plants themselves?
Posted by: GoFast | Jan 15 2023 15:23 utc | 4
Warnews247.gr says power plants got hit, 3 of them.
Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jan 15 2023 15:24 utc | 5
The Neo-Nazi Ukrainian forces could be retreating to regroup and replenish, probably propaganda speak for they need to fall back after incurring heavy losses.
“In the evening of January 12, the operation of Russian troops to liberate Soledara, which is in the center of the line of defense Artemovsk — Seversk. This is important in terms of the development of offensive actions – it allows you to cut off the supply of Ukrainian troops in the area and then take them into the cauldron.”
Said a Russian spokesperson.
The Ukrainian troops are thinking about retreating from Artemivsk, the newspaper writes Washington Post.
According to her, Ukraine is facing difficult decisions as to how many forces to send to the city, as in the coming months it will be forced to launch a new counteroffensive.
“We’ve lost a lot of friends defending the city, so we don’t want to give it up now. But, perhaps, the temporary withdrawal of troops will save some of our people, “the publication quotes the words of an unnamed Ukrainian military. He added that his unit had suffered heavy losses in Artemovsk.
https://ria.ru/20230115/artemovsk-1844984732.html
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Jan 15 2023 15:36 utc | 6
It’s very hard to find a reliable site/blog/column on certain beyond-the-surface sides to this war.
The Saker’s blog was interesting and read-worthy in the first few months, then it become useless as it allowed only self-blindfolded ultras to post columns as well as comment, while labeling anyone else as an anti-Russian sill or hater or whatnot.
Something I haven’t come across anyone touching on is this: have ethnic Ukrainians hated ethnic Russians more than they care about their life historically? Or is this the outcome of the propaganda moulding done over the last 15 years?
Because it’s obvious NATO has managed to fetch more than enough Ukrainians glad to face death, provided only they also cause death among Russians and, broadly, harm Russians.
This isn’t normal, not in the 21th century.
Maybe the fully owned (by the same owners of the West’s…) media has installed into their minds that they are being attacked by Russia for no legitimate, defensive, reason, and that’s just their (not ununderstandable) behavioral response?
Posted by: klklklklklklk | Jan 15 2023 15:37 utc | 7
Posted by: UK Apaches | Jan 15 2023 15:08 utc | 8
Nobody in his right mind takes mirror.co.uk seriously.
It’s not just a tabloid, it’s a pulp fiction comic strip.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 15 2023 15:37 utc | 8
Posted by: klklklklklklk | Jan 15 2023 15:37 utc | 14
have ethnic Ukrainians hated ethnic Russians more than they care about their life historically?
First, what is an “ethnic ukrainian” ?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 15 2023 15:39 utc | 9
UK Apaches
A classic case of an intel agency trying to bounce a government into a desired course of action. Wonder if it was the SZRU or one of the US intel tentacles?
Posted by: Milites | Jan 15 2023 15:44 utc | 10
Russia knows the current conflict in Ukraine ends in the USA launching against the motherland.
Soon after Russia takes out the Ukrainian armies in the Donbas and secures that territory, it will launch against the USA before the West launches against the bear.
Russia knows where the current conflict is heading and will preempt the USA in a first strike.
I have no idea when the bear will take and secure all of the Donbas. However, the fall of Soledar is significant for it leads to the domino fall of Bakhmut to the south and Siversk to the north and then the rest of Donbas.
As the Soledar (soul) goes down, the Bakhmut (back) will be broken. As the Bakhmut (back) breaks, the Donbas (mighty and powerful) falls. As the Donbas falls, the launch approaches.
I am guessing it will take the bear 3 or 4 months to take and secure all of the Donbas from here. But this is only a guess.
What is important is not my guess or your guess on timing. What is important is when this happens. Soon after, the USA will be no more. I base this upon Daniel 7:5.
All those Americans within the USA will be killed. The Russians and their allies will come into the USA after the radiation levels fall and genocide everyone. None will survive within the USA (Jeremiah 50 with the USA being Babylon).
If you now reside within the USA or any of her territories get out as it looks like the Donbas is about to totally fall to the Russians. If you reside within the USA or any of her territories get out after the nukes fall anyway you can.
I know most will reject these words. Even thinking these words are a possibility are horrid to most Americans. Yet, the truth of the current dire situation is there for a true truth seeker.
This is a very good time for one to get right with God through His son, the Lord Jesus Christ. There is not much time left for the USA. And when the USA goes down, the rest of the world is going to change dramatically with 100’s of millions finding themselves in a very difficult situation just to survive.
Posted by: young | Jan 15 2023 15:51 utc | 11
Well, according to the OPCW after years of investigations in Russia into Chemical Weapons concluded Russia had no such weapons and, BTW, neither did Syria. The report thanked RF’s full cooperation with the investigation.
So, question one to the USA. As Russia has been officially verified as not having any chemical weapons how are they going to use any? Question 2. The alleged ‘Novichok’ production labs were in Ukraine which, the USA, oh most helpfully, offered to assist Ukraine with decommissioning. I think it is generally acknowledged that the plant was not fully decommissioned. Question 3. What about the 30-50 USA bio-weapons Labs found in Ukraine on the Russian incursion into the East at the start of the SMO?
It seems to me the only country that has bio-weapons Labs in the area is the USA. So it begs the question who will use it in this conflict? Answer, only one country and that is not Russia.
Posted by: Jo Dominich | Jan 15 2023 15:56 utc | 12
Re: “Biden, Stoltenberg Warn Of Threat Of Russia Using Chemical Weapons In Ukraine”
Posted by: Passerby | Jan 15 2023 15:04 utc | 7
As the SMO has advanced, I have been worrying about the non-appearance of the famous “White Helmets”. Their absence, like the dog that didn’t bark in the night, is interesting.
Posted by: jamesh | Jan 15 2023 15:56 utc | 13
Those predicting nuclear Armageddon have forgotten the history of the U.S. slinking away from the huge disasters of Vietnam and Afghanistan. A nation that can make a 20-year, trillion dollar debacle in Afghanistann disappear and rewrite the history of the Vietnam horror as a well-intentioned unfortunate episode is entirely capable of moving on to the next foreign policy disaster – probably in Taiwan.
Posted by: HH | Jan 15 2023 16:02 utc | 14
@young | Jan 15 2023 15:51 utc | 18
And when the USA goes down, the rest of the world is going to change dramatically with 100’s of millions finding themselves in a very difficult situation just to survive.
Actually the opposite is true. We’ll go back to the UN Charter where every country is sovereign. No more JCPOA, no more “rules-based international order,” no more “coalition of the willing,” no more European Union . . .etc. . .Hurrah!
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 15 2023 16:08 utc | 15
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 15 2023 15:39 utc | 16
> First, what is an “ethnic ukrainian” ?
It is like an “ethnic Belgian”.
Posted by: hopehely | Jan 15 2023 16:14 utc | 16
@ Young, #11
Hey man, “go peddle crazy somewhere else; we’re all stocked up here”
Posted by: A. Pols | Jan 15 2023 16:22 utc | 17
Re: “Biden, Stoltenberg Warn Of Threat Of Russia Using Chemical Weapons In Ukraine”
Posted by: Passerby | Jan 15 2023 15:04 utc | 7
As the SMO has advanced, I have been worrying about the non-appearance of the famous “White Helmets”. Their absence, like the dog that didn’t bark in the night, is interesting.
Posted by: jamesh | Jan 15 2023 15:56 utc | 13
Thinking it over, I came to that there is no equivalent safe space to commit them in, as there was in Idlib; the Russians can see them and will bomb them. It is Turkiye that complicates the issue in Idlib. And much better on the ground human intelligence in Ukraine.
All by inference, mind you.
Posted by: Bemildred | Jan 15 2023 16:28 utc | 18
This is an existential war for Russia but also for the US the UK and much of Europe. The US has been on a “free lunch” since Nixon took the US off Gold in the early 70s. They have debts foreign and domestic that can never be paid and the financial house of cards is sustained by the US dollar. I believed that the giant fraud which is the US dollar would last much longer than I now believe. Money exists as a Faith based scam backed by the creditworthiness of the borrower. The US is about to borrow some more in the next few days. When creditors demand higher interest than the buyer can pay or demand payment in physical assets ie Gold, the game will be up. That will require the US to cut the size of it’s military and start reindustrialization. Did you know that Russia produces more home grown engineers than the USA in absolute numbers? The US imports brain’s too. The “real” non financial and nonsense economy of China is MUCH larger than the USA now. Only the dollar allows the US to be a rich country.
Posted by: Bob | Jan 15 2023 16:36 utc | 19
I have been worrying about the non-appearance of the famous “White Helmets”
that trick has been used too often and doesn’t work on the silent majority anymore.
the global south wants nothing to do with the anglos. the anglos are trying to recreate colonialism. the global south can see through it.
all this was to prevent germany from getting too close to Russia. Instead the anglos have lost the real prize – the global south.
Posted by: cafe con leche | Jan 15 2023 16:43 utc | 20
@7
First, “the Ukraine” (= “borderland”) is a total invention of the victorious Prussians (Germans) over Russia in WW1. Russia signed over (Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, 1917) its borderland in exchange for peace, since the Red-White civil war was raging in Russia.
That was quickly reversed when the English/French stalled the Prussians in the West. “The Ukraine” was reabsorbed into what had become the Soviet Union. They suffered Stalin´s collectivization severely, but then so did all Russians. The latter-day Ukronazis have, however, elevated this to a Russian crime against “the Ukrainians”, kindled by the Galicians and Wolhynians
(who had previously been under Austrian rule) and justifying their joining the Germans in WW2 against the Soviets.
Things calmed down after WW2 and, even after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the Ukraine inclined towards Russia and Belarus.
The Americans, stuck in Cold War mode, didn´t like this and, using the CIA, overthrew the Ukraine government in 2014 and installed their own proxies. It quickly emerged that the Galician Banderites, relics of WW2, were the most reliably anti-Russian group and so these were promoted, particularly by the nefarious “BBC Media Action” who had nearly a decade to do their pernicious proselytizing – all paid for by the BBC Foreign Office.
The resulting “anti-Russian” feeling is the consequence of this sedulous British brainwashing and the heavy American backing of the atavistic Banderites.
It does not reflect in any way the vast majority of the Ukrainian population who are, basically, happily Russian – as most Scots are happily British.
Posted by: John Marks | Jan 15 2023 16:47 utc | 21
Alistair Crooke (January 13):
“The EU hopes to halt that slide well short of full war. It is nonetheless a very slippery slope. The point of War is to inflict pain and attrit your enemy. To this extent it is open to mutation. Formal sanctions and caps on energy quickly metamorphose into the sabotage of pipelines or the seizure of tankers.”
https://strategic-culture.org/news/2023/01/13/the-2023-war-setting-the-theatre/
Teetering on the fragile brink of civilizational ruin, i. e. a Dark Age worse than any other.
Posted by: Elmagnostic | Jan 15 2023 16:53 utc | 22
Arch Bungle | Jan 15 2023 15:39 utc | 9
you know who the khazars are, you should know.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jan 15 2023 17:00 utc | 24
I wonder if there is more than salt in the hundreds of miles of Soledar’s salt mine complexes that would necessitate the sacrifice of copious numbers of UAF conscript lives. NATO can get a contract with Morton’s if that’s a compelling problem for Zelinsky and his entourage. I get Bakhmut as the logistic hub to fight and die for. But the carnage in Soledar? Can anyone enlighten me?
Posted by: Drake Schroeder | Jan 15 2023 17:10 utc | 25
Posted by: Drake Schroeder | Jan 15 2023 17:10 utc | 25
BlackRock and BlackRock controlled entities have made all the contracts to “rebuild Ukraine”. Ze has got to deliver all those assets which BlackRock owns in Ukraine, including Soledar and the mines.
Posted by: unimperator | Jan 15 2023 17:15 utc | 26
Posted by: klklklklklklk 7
What is an ethnic Ukrainian? Mostly someone who identifies as an ethnic Ukrainian, mostly from Galicia and and a Bandera devotee. I expect the large majority of Ukrainians just want to get on with their lives and are tolerant of the 1/3 of the country (before SMO) that spoke Russian, seeing that they are all slavs and have much in common. Problem is the Ukronazi fanatics have been willing to turn to violence to get their way, whereas most ordinary people are not, so a minority of ideologues took control in Ukraine. Probably not hard in a country with its level of corruption. The illegitimate government that took over in 2014 is very good at one thing – propaganda and mind control, coupled with intimidation. Turns out that most people can be moved to a point of view with sustained government indoctrination, not willing to look any deeper than a ‘Russia invaded us’ narrative. Also, the fact that Azov guys are waiting behind the front lines to dispatch anyone who wants to leave the fight is motivation.
Posted by: Mike R | Jan 15 2023 17:20 utc | 27
Posted by: unimperator | Jan 15 2023 17:15 utc
And Larry Fink is sipping a fine liqueur in a Davos suite as we speak. This entire affair is obscene.
Posted by: Drake Schroeder | Jan 15 2023 17:20 utc | 28
Passerby | Jan 15 2023 15:04 utc | 2
as the supersmart know, “war is the art of deception.”
if this is true (it’s not, but people want to sound smart), what else is there but projection?
no matter. what else do the supersmart people know? really, really know?
that messiah putin will save us all from nuclear war.
the future rests with Russia’s MIC…who won’t go looking for enemies because the land of Cockaigne is Mother Russia. but what will people do if they can’t fawn and drool all over Russian weapons?
now, in the midst of all the astral projection and remote viewing and clairvoyance, let’s everybody descry thru the modern augury of twitter, how many times the Chinese and Russians delegations to Davos and the upcoming WEF openly pledge their unwavering loyalty to international finance. just like last year. and the year before. and the year before.
throughout Putin’s career up to this present second, his two favorite words associated with “Western” are OUR and COLLEAGUES.
in any case, NATO has lost and is being led by people like Tuck’er and Run Mangina Carlson, calling for the USM to fight a war it can win: on Mexico. i.e., the forces of reaction are already flowing back into the US, and what happens or doesn’t happen in Ukraine is no going to mean shit to us here when all the forces the US has cultivated come back home. there’s no answer in Russia or China for that fact. people who think so have castrated themselves politically.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jan 15 2023 17:28 utc | 29
Something I haven’t come across anyone touching on is this: have ethnic Ukrainians hated ethnic Russians more than they care about their life historically? Or is this the outcome of the propaganda moulding done over the last 15 years?
Posted by: klklklklklklk | Jan 15 2023 15:37 utc | 7
“Ethnic Ukrainians” really means Galicians. The rest was most ethnically Russian, the more so the further east you go. Nobody spoke Ukrainian in Kiev until very recently.
The history starts with the separation of Galicia-Volynia from the rest of Rus, which goes back 800 years, to the 12th century.
It was a separate Kingdom of Galicia–Volhynia (those were separate principalities originally) for some time in the Middle Ages, then was absorbed by the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth.
It was never reincorporated back into Rus/Russia until Volynia was recovered in the final partition of Poland in 1795. As a result of that Galicia went to Austria while Volynia was incorporated by Russia.
After WWI Russia lost Volynia to Poland and the Polish also took over Galicia from the Austrians. In those times it was something like a 35-30-30 Polish-Jewish-“Ukrainian” split ethnically, so it wasn’t too unreasonable. If anyone could claim those lands as rightfully theirs, it’s the Polish.
But then during WWII the Ukrainians ethnically cleansed the Polish to a large extent and the Jews quite thoroughly (led by Bandera, Shukhevych, and the rest), and that was finalized by forced population transfers between the countries when both Volynia and Galicia were annexed to the USSR and given to the Ukrainian SSR (together with Transcarpathia).
What the Austrians were doing in the 19th century is where the real problem originates — they were actively encouraging Ukrainian nationalism in order to destabilize Russia by hoping to export it from Galicia into what is not Central and Eastern Ukraine. Long-term that plan succeeded, but only long after Austro-Hungary was no more.
This is why it has always been the Galicians specifically that are the rabid Russophobes — that is the region around Lvov, Ternopol and Ivano-Frankovsk specifically. Bandera was from the Lvov area, Shukhevych was from Lvov too, Mykola Lebed was from Lvov, Yaroslav Stetsko was from Ternopol, and so it goes.
Not even Volynia so much, as it spent more than a century inside Russia, it is Galicia specifically.
The Soviets oscillated between encouraging and trying to suppress Ukrainian nationalism, but it was more of the former than the latter, as during the chaos of WWI that was seen as an inevitable compromise to be made in order to keep the territory (which is of extremely vital strategic importance). Note, however, that there were two SSR republics during the Civil war prior to the Brest-Litovsk treaty — the Donetsk–Krivoy Rog Soviet Republic, and another, officially Ukrainian one, west of the river. Then it got merged into a single entity later on. There are various versions of what happened exactly and why, it’s too long of a topic.
Then after 1991 Galician fanaticism started to gradually take over the whole newly independent country, truly escalating after the 2003 color revolution, and going into hyperdrive after 2014. The result is that now much of Ukraine has been infected with the disease, including historically 100% Russian cities such as Kharkov.
There is a good measure for how it spread — there are maps of Bandera statues around Ukraine from throughout the years, and you can see how circa 2005 they were all in Lvov, Ternopol and Ivano-Frankovsk, with something like a single one in Lutsk and another one in Rovno (the two main cities in Volynia), then a few years later it is multiple of those in Volynia, then it keeps spreading east, and now you have them even in cities in southern and eastern Ukraine (which have historically been Russian).
Propaganda and brainwashing work. They wouldn’t be a multibillion industry if they didn’t. And the masters of it are in the West, that is what much of its power rests on. They went to work and in 30 years they achieved remarkable results.
Posted by: shadowbanned | Jan 15 2023 17:29 utc | 30
And after all the discussion of Apache helicopters in the last Ukraine thread, we hear that Ukraine won’t be getting any, not even four. Looks like we won’t be counting them down as they get shot down, after all.
Posted by: Dalit | Jan 15 2023 17:31 utc | 31
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jan 15 2023 17:28 utc | 29
if this is true (it’s not, but people want to sound smart), what else is there but projection?
no matter. what else do the supersmart people know? really, really know?
Proper capitalization, punctuation and grammar?
Posted by: Drake Schroeder | Jan 15 2023 17:36 utc | 32
I see how and what they write in some public pages about Dnepropetrovsk.
That, they say, there is nothing to feel sorry for them, there is a war going on, they are out, for 8 years they have been laughing at the “barbecue from the Colorados” and the killed “Colorado larvae” (this is how the murdered children of Donbass were called in Ukraine), shouting “Death to Russia!”, Well, and so Further. The general message of the posts is “as they should, they themselves are to blame.”
I want to ask, who is to blame? Ordinary people? I personally do not know who lived there in this entrance. Fans of Bandera and “Azov”? Perhaps. Those who have been waiting for our arrival since February 24 and are sure that they are now living under occupation? It’s also possible. The majority, most likely, were simple townsfolk.
Which, of course, being in the Ukrainian information environment did not like Russians very much, but they did not like their power, in a philistine way, either. Ordinary people who don’t care who wins, as long as everything is “already normal, because how much is possible.”
So are they to blame? In general, ordinary peaceful people can be to blame for what happens not according to their decision, regardless of what their beliefs are?
This is how it is with Ukrainians affected by the virus: the Donetsk people are to blame, the fools themselves did not support the Maidan, and they are not people at all, they can be bombed and killed; Muscovites are to blame for the fact that they are Muscovites and from them in general all evil, even Donetsk from them, therefore Muscovites must be killed, because they are also not people. The Ukrainians have quite a pagan primitive consciousness. They operate on primitive instincts.
A Russian Orthodox person cannot rejoice in the death of a person. Even the enemy. Destruction of the enemy is a necessity. The fight for the Motherland is a duty. Rejoicing in death is already demonism.
God does not have crests or Muscovites, and there are no Hellenes and Jews, free and slaves. There are Christians. You can only grieve about the death of peaceful Christians, especially Orthodox Christians, if you are an Orthodox person. And pray for the innocent victims these days. The death of civilians is a tragedy. Whether in Dnepropetrovsk, whether in Donetsk.
And there is no explanation in the style of “but they themselves wrote / spoke / laughed there.” Was. And they wrote and joked vilely. And they joked about the burnt “Winter Cherry”, they did a lot of things in their madness. But this is their business and their answer to God. And if we refer to the fact that it is, they say, they were bad, rightly so, then we put ourselves on the level of God? It’s like we’re sitting here at the computer decide for him who was worthy of what and who deserved and who did not?
It’s not even that it’s pride. This is exactly the same Ukrainianness, which should destroy us. And not to cultivate in yourself.
For a person who believes, the death of a peaceful person on the other side of the front is a disaster and a tragedy. We are obliged to pray for the Russian soldiers, to help the front, to wish ours to defeat and destroy the enemies. And so it will be. With God’s help.
But to rejoice at the death of peaceful people, because “they are to blame” is not just demonism. This is the Ukrainian cult of death.
And again, someone will tell me that, in Ukraine, even the priests do not pray for the Donbass, and in general they all wish us death.
I will answer again: what do you want yourself? To be like them?
Well, come on, learn to jump and say “he who does not jump is a crest.” Have you imagined yourself in this, or is it not very successful? Don’t want to look like an idiot?
Well, stop this verbal dance on the bones of people.
Pray for the dead. And how “they have it there” is their business.
“Let the dead bury their dead, and you go and proclaim the Kingdom of God.”
Andrey Medvedev
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/29072
Posted by: Down South | Jan 15 2023 17:36 utc | 33
Article in Jerusalem post today says it clear Putinnwill retire soon so all the speculation can end. Yes Ukraine is using advanced fighting tactics which can not comprehend by bar flies and arm chair generals. The people of Russia will finally be liberated when the Ukraine army enters Moscow. And yes they won’t have to shoot out power transformers like the Russians, lol Amazing what you guys swallow. Haven’t you noticed all tnerussian army can shot ispower lines and boxes. Come on sit thebeer down and go home.
Posted by: AW | Jan 15 2023 17:39 utc | 34
The Ukrainian side reported that by 17:30 Russian forces had established full control of the industrial zone of salt mine No. 7 on the western outskirts of Soledar (this was written by the commander of the Madyar UAV special group)
AFU: Russian troops occupied mine No. 7 and the entire Soledar
Unexpected news from the chief propagandist from the Ukrainian aerial reconnaissance with the call sign “Magyar” (before that, he lied about holding Soledar of the Armed Forces of Ukraine):
the militant writes that Russia completely liberated Soledar and occupied mine No. 7.
This event can hardly be overestimated: now the railway supply between Seversk and Artemovsk is completely cut off, and the allied forces get the opportunity to develop an offensive against both cities.
Posted by: Down South | Jan 15 2023 17:39 utc | 35
Re: white helmets. Ten days ago I heard an National Public Radio interview of an International Committee of the Red Cross official droning on about the services the ICRC was providing to civilians in various locales of Ukraine. The interviewee was clearly personally engaged on the ground, not someone from headquarters. Suddenly for 30 seconds he was talking about responding to civilians injured by bombs in Donetsk. I don’t think the clueless reporter realized he had switched from discussing civilian needs in Ukrainian controlled territory to Russia. This is the only acknowledgement of the shelling of Donetsk that I have heard or read in the MSM.
Posted by: mjh | Jan 15 2023 17:46 utc | 36
There’s been little (none in my own news reading) even an attempt of characterization and/or detailed reporting concerning the general disposition of Ukrainians themselves about this deadly and miserable war.
From the Donbass and LPR yes, but Kiev, Odesa,etc.,no.
Some of this absence is very readily understandable–self-preservation leaps to mind.
I wonder if more unheated, unelectric winter nights and days have or will have brought a visible anti-government reaction? It’s risky but as the weeks go I look for some sign of resistance, rebellion, and, yes, even death from what has to be a very rightly fed up populace.
Posted by: Elmagnostic | Jan 15 2023 17:50 utc | 37
The Forward
Nazi collaborator monuments in Ukraine
Many new streets and monuments have been erected since a new government took over in 2014
https://forward.com/news/462916/nazi-collaborator-monuments-in-ukraine/?amp=1
JEWISH. INDEPENDENT. The Forward (Yiddish: פֿאָרווערטס, romanized: Forverts), formerly known as The Jewish Daily Forward,[2] is an American news media organization for a Jewish American audience.
Posted by: Le Catalan | Jan 15 2023 17:58 utc | 38
Looks like Olaf is off the hook for a while. Danke schon Rheinmetall.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/15/german-battle-tanks-for-ukraine-wont-be-ready-until-2024
Posted by: dh | Jan 15 2023 18:08 utc | 39
Translated, RF MOD clobber list for each of the past four(4) days (Since last full post 11.01.23):
12.01.2023
📊 In total, since the beginning of the special military operation destroyed ((+?) over preceding 24hrs):
372 aircraft,
200 helicopters,
2,873(+5) unmanned aerial vehicles,
400 surface-to-air missile systems,
7,486(+13) tanks and other armored combat vehicles,
979(+3) multiple rocket launcher combat vehicles,
3,813(+4) field artillery guns and mortars, and
8,019(+13) special military vehicles.
13.01.2023
📊 In total, since the beginning of the special military operation destroyed ((+?) over preceding 24hrs):
372 aircraft,
200 helicopters,
2,876(+3) unmanned aerial vehicles,
400 surface-to-air missile systems,
7,495(+9) tanks and other armored combat vehicles,
982(+3) multiple rocket launcher combat vehicles,
3,820(+7) field artillery guns and mortars, and
8,027(+8) special military vehicles.
14.01.2023
📊 In total, since the beginning of the special military operation destroyed ((+?) over preceding 24hrs):
372 aircraft,
200 helicopters,
2,880(+4) unmanned aerial vehicles,
400 surface-to-air missile systems,
7,511(+16) tanks and other armored combat vehicles,
982 multiple rocket launcher combat vehicles,
3,828(+8) field artillery and mortar guns, and
8,040(+13) special military vehicles.
15.01.2023
📊 In total, since the beginning of the special military operation destroyed ((+?) over preceding 24hrs):
372 aircraft,
200 helicopters,
2,882(+2) unmanned aerial vehicles,
401(+1) anti-aircraft missile systems,
7,525(+14) tanks and other armored combat vehicles,
982 multiple rocket launcher combat vehicles,
3,836(+8) field artillery and mortar guns, and
8,052(+12) special military vehicles.
Note: Each AD Radar destroyed, no(Soviet pre ’91) spares/replacements, effectively: Unclaimed Kills.
Comment:
Artillery, Armor(AFVs) & Vehicles(All types) materiel continues to be attrited daily at an unsustainable loss rate. Particularly Arty/MBRLS/Mortars. Over last four(4) days: ~5+ FULL Artillery Batteries, 1 FULL Armor BN, ~46 critically short vehicles(Logistics!) … destroyed.
@ Hermit re previous Ukraine thread …
Some detailed figures re AFU AF aircraft (fighters only) from beginning of SMO …
Translated from Belarus VPO:
The picture of the Ukrainian Armed Forces fighters(Airframes) looks like this:
It was (Feb2422):
Su-27 – 56 units.
Su-24 – 115 units.
Su-25 – 46 units.
MiG-29 – 203 units.
Destroyed (As at Jan1423):
Su-27 – 16 units;
Su-24 – 32 aircraft;
Su-25 – 109 units;
MiG-29 – 73 units.
Thus, the Kiev junta can (theoretically) hide up to 250 aircraft (Airframes), including in neighboring countries. Moreover, if desired, the same Poland, Slovakia, etc. can gather up a couple dozen more fighters.
&
Ex-NATO Commander-in-Chief urged Poland to transfer combat aircraft to Kiev (Jan1423)
Quoted today by the DPA agency.
“I think Ukraine needs fighters. Deliveries of MiG-29 aircraft from Poland are possible, which can be used by the Ukrainian military. Poland could subsequently be supported by F-16s from the United States,” said former NATO Commander-in-Chief James Stavridis.
It is worth noting that Poland has 112 combat aircraft in total. Of these:
F-16 – 50 units.
MIG-29 – 30 units.
SU-22 – 32 units.
Comment:
Note: These figures assume ALL unaccounted AFU AF ~250 airframes were or are capable of being brought to, parts being available, operable status. Unrealistic given status of AFU Feb2422. How many were already incapable of salvage/repair, or have already been thoroughly cannibalized, hence irrecoverable write-offs ?
ALL listed ‘Aircraft’ should be taken with a very heavy dose of salt.
In reality, total ‘Airframes’ would be more accurate. Ranging from Operable(few), through inoperable, repairable, recoverable, derelict, to write-offs(inoperable & irrecoverable). AFU has demonstrably been salvaging parts from its derelict/write-off airframes to incrementally bring ‘salvageable’ inoperable frames to airworthy status & onto the flight line since Feb2422-Apr22, only thence to have them serially, promptly destroyed, piecemeal.
AFU AF has with US/NATO assistance, openly sourced aircraft/airframes & parts from State operators of former Soviet applicable aircraft since Feb2422. Essentially, all ‘willing’ available State sources have been exhausted for a considerable time. Since ~Apr22, even after having receipted small batches of other States ‘donated’ ex-Soviet aircraft(various operable status), AFU has still only been able to launch operationally insignificant trivial numbers of fighter aircraft, both infrequently & intermittently, promptly destroyed, to demonstrably negligible effect.
Posted by: shadowbanned | Jan 15 2023 17:29 utc | 30
Don’t you forget the nazi-backed UPA guerilla against USSR, after the German withdrawal from Ukraine in late 1944. Due to German support and the immense amount of avalaible weaponry on the fields of battles. The nazi supported guerilla kept-on harassing the soviets UP TO 1954, thanks to US OSS then CIA support that took over the Nazi German secret services (Gehlen now BND). One of their most famous victim being Soviet General Nikolai Vatutin – victor at Kursk battle, who fell in ukraine victim of the UPA assassination on April 16, 1944. https://en.topcor.ru/19537-nikolaj-vatutin-tri-tajny-smerti-polkovodca.html
At the same time Stepan bandera was refugee in Germany as well as Michael Chomiak a Nazi propagandist for Krakivski Visti (Krakow News). grandfather of current Canada Deputy Prime minister, Chrystia Freeland.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/freeland-knew-her-grandfather-was-editor-of-nazi-newspaper/article34236881/
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jan 15 2023 18:20 utc | 41
There are statues all over Russia of the NAZI collaborator Stalin, he of the Hitler/Stalin pact, or Ribbentrop pact, if you will.
Sure, the two pals fell out in the end, but so did Bandera, who they tossed into a concentration camp.
The Bolshies on this board have a shallow view of history. To me, all of them were garbage, the Soviets, the NAZIs and the Banderistas.
But about all those statues of NAZI collaborator Stalin, do they need tp come down??
Posted by: Thim | Jan 15 2023 18:21 utc | 42
@Tim
Nazism, communism, liberalism… the first places are dear to the totalitarian contest.
“Another major connection is that of business. Business and investment relations at the highest financial and capitalist levels were intense between the US and Germany even after Germany’s defeat in 1918. They continued despite political and ideological vicissitudes. It is acknowledged that in planning the US strategic air offensive against Germany from 1940 onwards, the US Army Air Force officers in charge of this work contacted major US banks and industrial groups to identify and locate German companies with large US investments, and to place them out of the reach of US bombers. Moreover, various large US groups (Standard Oil of New Jersey, ITT, Chase Manhattan Bank, Ford, etc.) continued to work with Nazi Germany, even during the war with the US commitment, until 1945, including on contracts of a strategic nature. In his book “Trading with the Enemy, the Nazi-American Money Plot, 1933-1945″ (Barnes & Noble, 1983), Charles Higham has extensively documented this area. (Higham, a half-Jewish Briton whose family had perished in the Nazi camps, had taken American citizenship as an ideological choice, and it was his discovery of the realities of the system of Americanism that prompted him to write his book.)”
“It should be noted with reference to a passage above that the US government could do nothing about the collaborative ventures, including strategic ones, of US conglomerates with Nazi Germany during the war. The only person to protest to Roosevelt about these practices was Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter. Roosevelt told him that if he took prohibitive measures, there was the expressed risk that Big Business would retaliate by stopping war production and that he, Roosevelt, could do nothing about it. Roosevelt suggested that too many US political leaders were bound or held by Big Business to hope for successful mobilisation of coercion. This marks the pathetic limits of the true extent of political power in relation to other dominant forces.”
PH Grasset – https://www.dedefensa.org/article/rapsit-usa2023-armer-lus-navy-ou-armer-zelenski
Posted by: Le Catalan | Jan 15 2023 18:34 utc | 43
>Posted by: Le Catalan | Jan 15 2023 18:34 utc | 43
You have that in reverse now in Russia. The West should have been completely cut off all commodities in April the latest.
Instead we have a war in which one side is providing the other with the fuel it needs to run the war…
Posted by: shadowbanned | Jan 15 2023 18:39 utc | 44
@ Arch Bungle – Post 8
No UK apaches. What’s a UKR General going to do?
No German Leopard tanks!!!. Not this year and who will pay!
German Defense Company Rheinmetall Unable to Supply Leopard Tanks to Kiev in 2023, CEO Says
BERLIN (Sputnik) – German defense company Rheinmetall has 22 Leopard 2 tanks and 88 Leopard 1 tanks, but it would take about a year to prepare them for shipment to Ukraine, CEO Armin Papperger said on Sunday.
“We still have 22 Leopard 2 units that we could put into operation and deliver to Ukraine.
As for Leopard 1, we have about 88 of them. But we cannot repair these tanks without a contract, because the costs amount to several hundred million euros. Rheinmetall cannot offer preliminary financing to this,” Papperger told German media.
Leopard tanks need about one year to be prepared to be shipped and put into operation, the businessman said.
“The vehicles are not only repainted but also rebuilt for usage during wartime. They are completely disassembled and then reassembled. This means that even if a decision is made tomorrow that we can send our Leopard tanks to Kiev, the delivery will take place no sooner than the beginning of next year,” Rheinmetall’s chief said.
[.]
Someone needs to mouse-click up some USD or euros. Ze will write a check after he speaks with Ms. Yellen.
Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 15 2023 18:55 utc | 45
Le Catalan | Jan 15 2023 17:58 utc | 38
thank you. i’ve got a family member running interference for these nazis via big NGO with lots of support from US jesus goblins, because, as every good american knows, god is not a communist. he’s a willing fool, helping the little kiddies of the world…because that’s how USAID rolls. nothing but family values. We stopped talking when I asked him why he hasn’t taken his kids to the recruitment center if he really believes this shit that he preaches about how awful Stalin (!) was. I told him he’s not a true believer. true believers like joe biden gladly sacrifice their kids for the truth.
Posted by: rjb1.5 | Jan 15 2023 19:02 utc | 46
@klklklklklklk | Jan 15 2023 15:37 utc | 7
You can read the article (book review) posted here for a brief review of the history of the Ukraine. The review is of this book by Nicolai Petro.
Posted by: the pessimist | Jan 15 2023 19:06 utc | 47
There is an e-book free of charge that highlights some of these problems. You can download on your kindle. It is called: RADHIKA DESAI, Capitalism, Coronavirus and War. A geopolitical economy. The “war” in the title refers to Ukraine. Radhika Desai and Michael Hudson have a programme every two weeks at “naked capitalist”. They are both geo-economists and historians. Several organisations have pooled to release this book free of charge on kindle of all places, but why not… It is not a difficult read and offers a valuable perspective of the last 100 years up to Covid and the SMO. Classical left and not pessimistic in outlook. Meant as a study book for groups but valuable for individuals searching for some oversight
Posted by: Teraspol | Jan 15 2023 19:12 utc | 48
What’s an Ethnic Ukranian ?
Similar to a Bosnijak – invented nationality by the war to divide and conquer.
What would be the result of throwing a few billion supporting the Texan Liberation Party ?
Posted by: Exile | Jan 15 2023 19:16 utc | 49
Banderastan is unperturbed by the loss of the Apaches, it never had, nor the ‘delay’ before it will have salvaged pet Leopard 1s & IIs, ’cause salvaged Bradleys & Marders are on the way, one day, & possibly up to 28 salvaged Challenger 2s as well.
Thankfully Lithuania will save the day & ensure Total Victory with it’s transfer of Bofors 40mm L/70 Automatic AA Guns (Quantity/delivery date unknown), an upgrade of the WWII 40mm Bofors L/60, designed 1946, produced 1947+, accepted NATO standard in 1953 …
@:klklklklk 7
This war has not yet reached the stage that
Syria reached where information was coming back about motivation. In Syria , which was a Western – backed dictator- dynasty, Assad had been working for USUKIS doing torture- rendition – brainwashing Muslims into terrorism, when Cameron was told by Two-brain Pyjama to do a fake civil war starting with a British sniper-shoots-all-sides Maidan colour revolutions psyops like the shooting in Cairo from Al Azhar University at the start of every Arab Sting.
Soros, Fuck the E and Wolfowitz were involved in the indoctrination of Ukranians into ZioNazism. I presume by the same disgusting chemical brainwashing as in Every other USUKIS crime scene.
Are you asking if evidence has yet been found for this, or are you asking what happened. I guarantee to you the indoctrination into ZioNazism was done with Dr Mengeles style nazi-trauma-cum- psychological- chemical brainwashing. But for evidence we have to wait for Russia to reach the crime scenes in Western Ukraine.
Posted by: Giyane | Jan 15 2023 19:38 utc | 51
Ukrainians are fighting for Rothschild money printing machines, to preserve funny money.
Posted by: Andrew | Jan 15 2023 19:47 utc | 52
Posted by: John Marks | Jan 15 2023 16:47 utc | 21
Off topic, but as a matter of record:
Most Scots are not happily British. Most Scots(55%+) are very unhappily ‘British’ – i.e. UK ‘subjects’.
Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Jan 15 2023 19:48 utc | 53
jamesh@13
Just a little point. Instead of calling them the famous White Helmets, would it not be accurate to describe them as the infamous W.H.’s? Their activities included a whole bunch more than their alleged humanitarian mission.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 15 2023 19:52 utc | 54
Wherever differences between peoples exist – real or imagined – the CIA will be there to encourage and exploit. Were it not for endless chaos, the US dollar would have been determined fraudulent in 1968 or so. If not then, for sure when “M” stopped being reported by Dubya Cheney.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Jan 15 2023 19:53 utc | 55
aristodemos, several posts
The U$$A does not possess agency. They merely are designated attack dogs for the ruling Bank$ters, who through their ownership of the “Federal” Reserve bank control virtually all of the Pro$titicians in the Di$trict of corruption, as well as the U$$A mass media and the major globalist corporations.
I used to believe that Washington DC houses the outgoing masters of the universe. Now I learn that, like Germany, they have no agency. Instead, all power resides in that square mile of London where all the gangsters of the world hide their money. And that city is run by just eight family clans, which are the true sovereigns of the planet.
So you’ve got me bursting with desire to learn their names – and how old is your source, and have there been changes?
Posted by: grunzt | Jan 15 2023 19:54 utc | 56
@ Andrew 52
The Ukranians are dying in order to release the freehold of their country’s land more conveniently to Rothschild Banking. Aka “””””””Israel is a land without a people Palestinians are Wandering Bedouins. The Kurdish are vagrants on the Euphrates plains.”””””””
The Khazars are experts in these whopping lies.
Posted by: Giyane | Jan 15 2023 19:59 utc | 57
@ Outraged | Jan 15 2023 19:18 utc | 50
Banderastan is unperturbed by the loss of the Apaches, it never had, nor the ‘delay’ before it will have salvaged pet Leopard 1s & IIs, ’cause salvaged Bradleys & Marders are on the way, one day, & possibly up to 28 salvaged Challenger 2s as well.
Nothing will help, even 500 tanks, nothing at all. Can’t they see?
RF should wrap this up as fast as it goes.
It is getting ridiculous, and disgusting, and obviously NATO/US is lost in its “unity” and have lost this conflict, flat and straight.
Best for the planet would be to smash UAF towards surrender, and create a dangerous posture towards the West after that.
Full-blown EW towards AWACS and other eyes and ears in the sky and beyond, relentless missile decimation of media, energy, infrastructure.
Ukraine in ruins, and with an eye on surrounding infrastructures and decision-making centres.
Obviously the Combined West is not capable of doing anything really of substance and slowly and surely betray Ukrainians trying to evade responsibility.
I wait for the day when RF will grab those responsible individuals and countries by the neck and shake them well.
NATO will do nothing, ever, (although they are sneaky, I know) to retaliate. US might be tempted, but they know that without full spectrum dominance – no way they will do anything.
I hope that one day all those people that contributed to such devastation and disaster will be somehow held responsible and will be brought to international justice.
Not well known Western justice, but International one.
And pox and pest to Ukrainian “leadership” that killed so many own people, regardless of religion. Each one of them deserves Bandera style – “pravda” – a poisoned bullet in the face will do just nicely.
Also, I am a bit disturbed to see people panicking towards the Nuke as it is ‘just do it’ thingy.
There are so much options left to RF to grind the West down that we will have to wait for considerable time to come for any nuke to drop.
I do not believe in nuclear Armageddon, nor any viable pre-emptive strike.
Posted by: whirlX | Jan 15 2023 19:59 utc | 58
Today, the Ukrainian military registration and enlistment offices in Lviv blocked almost all entrances and exits to the city (They are distributing subpoenas)
Most of the mobilised residents of the Lviv region, after receiving subpoenas, are sent to the 24th Mechanized Brigade, the 80th Airborne Brigade, the 103rd Brigade of Territorial defense, and the 125th Brigade of Territorial defense. These brigades are located near Bakhmut and Svatovo, and, judging by the intensified work of Lviv military recruitment offices, they urgently need to replenish their losses.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/29088
Posted by: Down South | Jan 15 2023 20:02 utc | 59
To riff off the late 50’s movie “Damn Yankees”: “Whatever Blackrock wants, Blackrock gets. With all the pension funds and suchlike which Blackrock hold; the overall controlled assets by that Monstrous entity are well into the tens of trillions. Their orders alone, would “convince” virtually the entirety of Congre$$, as well as the administration entities to get “on message” with all the resources of Ukraine.
This is why the RU becomes…needs to become the fly in Blackrock’s soup by taking the surrender of ALL of Ukraine, excepting for the Banderite strongholds of Volhynia and Galicia, which would be divorced from the new NovoUkrainia government, which would void all contracts made by the bribed puppet regime in Kiev. Economically, this particular presumptive proposition would have huge implications. Russia NEEDS to do this to prevent the finest, deepest thousands of kilometers of rich topsoil in the world from become bionically-sterile, no-go zones due to the chemical warfare used in American agribiz.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 15 2023 20:04 utc | 60
Grunzt @ 56
The names and family connexions of those 8 perps who own the “Federal ” Reserve and similar financial control nexus’ are all to be found in Deanna Spingola’s huge and deeply researched/footnoted “The Ruling Elite”. The PTB are doing all they can to make that book unavailable. Check large regional libraries to see if they have a copy which would be loaned out to regional systems.
If that doesn’t work, get back in touch and I will endeavor to dig through my immense un-files to ferret out that info.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 15 2023 20:08 utc | 61
@14 HH
Agreed, those who subscribe to the ‘Paul Craig Roberts’ school of thought are always saying that we are one step away from nuclear war. Simply put, no we are not. First of all, it is not in the US interest to start a nuclear war, secondly, anyone who believes either side when they say there is no back channel communication is delusional, thirdly, it is not in Russia’s interest to start one either, one of the major reasons that the SMO has been prosecuted the way it has been is for exactly that reason, to mitigate the possibility of a wider conflict.
While the other side of the coin is these ‘experts’ who say it absolutely cannot happen, which is an equally ridiculous position to take as long as these weapons exist and there are stupid/psychopathic morons with access to them, it is always possible, however unlikely.
The only way I see it going that far is if the US/Ukraine et al do something inflammatory and totally misread the potential reaction from the other side. That might happen. Otherwise, at some point the US will say that they did everything they could and simply switch the narrative. That is the most likely outcome.
PS: Sorry Fallout LARPers, I don’t think you are going to get your wish anytime soon 🙁
Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Jan 15 2023 20:08 utc | 62
@ Bob Jenkins | Jan 15 2023 20:08 utc | 62
Agree totally. There is always a chance, but it is miniscule and also for everything else. I think we are still closer to peace than to planet devastation, many times over.
Posted by: whirlX | Jan 15 2023 20:13 utc | 63
https://spectrum.ieee.org/attack-on-nine-substations-could-take-down-us-grid
What if the Mexican drug cartels and Russia decide to combine forces? Both are in proxy wars with the US. Would they try to take out the US grid?
Posted by: notaround | Jan 15 2023 20:14 utc | 64
“The vehicles are not only repainted but also rebuilt for usage during wartime. They are completely disassembled and then reassembled. This means that even if a decision is made tomorrow that we can send our Leopard tanks to Kiev, the delivery will take place no sooner than the beginning of next year,” Rheinmetall’s chief said.
Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 15 2023 18:55 utc | 45
That’s weird. It seems to suggest that rather than assemble tanks, it would be more efficient to store the parts intended for a given tank.
Posted by: David Levin | Jan 15 2023 20:15 utc | 65
aristodemos | Jan 15 2023 20:08 utc | 61 and Gruntz
you can get it at Amazon
Posted by: dan of steele | Jan 15 2023 20:20 utc | 66
Shadowbanned@30
Good depth of research and info. Thanks.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 15 2023 20:21 utc | 67
Bob Jenkins@62
Now that the deepest nutcases are running the government in Israel and because Russia will be selling Su-35’s, a couple dozen of them to Iran within a few months time, it would appear; the primary possibility for nuclear destabilization would be I$rael v. Iran, set to happen before those game-changer, world-class Russian planes are fully integrated into Iranian armed forces. Those Su-35’s are so superior to F-16s and the F-35 “flying turkeys” that the Zionist entity would be most challenged should Iranian pilots become experts in their combat capabilities.
Second rogue possibility might be Pakistan, with North Korea coming in third in that dubious distinction.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 15 2023 20:28 utc | 69
@14 HH
Agreed, those who subscribe to the ‘Paul Craig Roberts’ school of thought are always saying that we are one step away from nuclear war. Simply put, no we are not. First of all, it is not in the US interest to start a nuclear war, secondly, anyone who believes either side when they say there is no back channel communication is delusional, thirdly, it is not in Russia’s interest to start one either, one of the major reasons that the SMO has been prosecuted the way it has been is for exactly that reason, to mitigate the possibility of a wider conflict.
Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Jan 15 2023 20:08 utc | 62
Plus I would expect the RoW to be taking a keen interest in any possibility the raving mad Western world may initiate a global catastrophe. I am not sure what they could do to ensure it doesn’t happen but I’d be very surprised if they weren’t doing something.
But the RoW, just as the actual people of the Western world, never really figure in the calculations and prognostications of the majority of our ‘experts’, do they? The only things that really exist for them are these ‘nation’ constructs they believe in and the various mythologies attached to them.
@65 The point is to give Olaf time to delay a decision about sending tanks. Any excuse will do. I’m surprised Sunak hasn’t come up with something similar for the Challengers.
Posted by: dh | Jan 15 2023 20:47 utc | 71
@69 Aristodemos
Agreed, If it starts anywhere, that’s where it will start, not in Ukraine.
Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Jan 15 2023 20:47 utc | 72
@Thim | Jan 15 2023 18:21 utc |
There are statues all over Russia of the NAZI collaborator Stalin, he of the Hitler/Stalin pact, or Ribbentrop pact, if you will.
Thim with a thud.
Posted by: majoab | Jan 15 2023 20:49 utc | 73
@Likklemore | Jan 15 2023 18:55 utc | 45
Hardly seems worth it to spend a year rebuilding a tank that will survive only until it runs put pf fuel (450 km/280 miles) or is destroyed,, whichever comes first.
Posted by: Hermit | Jan 15 2023 20:59 utc | 74
A lot of new names on this thread !
Most of them deliberatly dumbing down and contaminating the debate with worthless western disinformation..
My opinion is this …..
Russia will continue to de-nazify and de militarize Uqraine to act as a buffer between Russia and western hostile encroachment.
The west should pack up and go home.
And they could of, should of done that on day one.
Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 15 2023 21:09 utc | 75
A lot of new names on this thread !
Most of them deliberatly dumbing down and contaminating the debate with worthless western disinformation..
My opinion is this …..
Russia will continue to de-nazify and de militarize Uqraine to act as a buffer between Russia and western hostile encroachment.
The west should pack up and go home.
And they could of, should of done that on day one.
Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 15 2023 21:09 utc | 76
I apologise for posting this on both open threads.
Probably the most important Alt Media new fangled round table by otherwise disparate denizens and actual participants in recent history format. Sergai Karanogivov , I apologise for not getting the name right.
I can’t really give any sufficient summary. I don’t have that skill. But as a taster, when I hear a comment such as :
‘..it was when Europe turned away from Christianity in 2002..is when this was inevitable..’
The shock? recognition? Appreciation ? on Alex and Glenn’s faces , of a great truth slapping them in the face like a fish, of even the most erudite, modern analysts like them, meeting something even they have missed! Stunning.
Please watch. An unmissable medium being the message moment. I am watching it third time now and will do again. It’s as near as Truth as anything.
https://t.me/thedurancom/12945
Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 15 2023 21:09 utc | 77
@ : aristodemos | Jan 15 2023 20:28 utc | 69
nuclear destabilization would be I$rael v. Iran
But Israel knows that Iran has thousands of ballistic missiles aimed at their country and Hezbollah has tens of thousands more.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 15 2023 21:13 utc | 78
@ : aristodemos | Jan 15 2023 20:28 utc | 69
nuclear destabilization would be I$rael v. Iran
But Israel knows that Iran has thousands of ballistic missiles aimed at their country and Hezbollah has tens of thousands more.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 15 2023 21:13 utc | 79
Posted by: klklklklklklk | Jan 15 2023 15:37 utc | 7
That is a perfectly reasonable question and one I have asked myself also.
Obviously we do know that Western Ukrainians, perhaps better termed Galicians, are hostile to Russia and think more like Polish than Russian, and of course there are those who are closer to Hungary or Romania.
However, like you and I suspect many in Russia the capacity for the remaining Ukrainians in the centre, who often speak Russian as mother tongue to hate is surprising. Some of course have been conscripted and have no choice, but that is not a sufficient explanation I agree.
Posted by: watcher | Jan 15 2023 21:15 utc | 80
Article in Jerusalem post today says it clear Putinnwill retire soon so all the speculation can end. Yes Ukraine is using advanced fighting tactics which can not comprehend by bar flies and arm chair generals. The people of Russia will finally be liberated when the Ukraine army enters Moscow. And yes they won’t have to shoot out power transformers like the Russians, lol Amazing what you guys swallow. Haven’t you noticed all tnerussian army can shot ispower lines and boxes. Come on sit thebeer down and go home.
Posted by: AW | Jan 15 2023 17:39 utc | 34
Mmmm…..didnt western media predict Russia closing its borders a few weeks ago? That didnt happen. And didnt they also predict russia was about to issue a full mobilisation. That didnt happen either. These western editors are so behind the curve that have to make things up these days to sell the garbage papers. Oh…and forgot about russia running out of missiles.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Jan 15 2023 21:24 utc | 81
Posted by: HH | Jan 15 2023 16:02 utc | 14
That’s why it’s so important to take down the Petro-dollar- their main mean of destruction.
When doing so, we also ensures they will be busy fighting each other – if their limited attention-span allows it.
Posted by: Anne B | Jan 15 2023 21:27 utc | 82
PS: Sorry Fallout LARPers, I don’t think you are going to get your wish anytime soon 🙁
Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Jan 15 2023 20:08 utc | 62
###
There is a “Doomsday Cult” fascination in the West. Day of Judgement/Reckoning, the flood that resets everything. It’s very Abrahamic. Zombie Apocalypse. Mad Max. Climate apocalypse. Nuclear holocaust. Global pandemic. How many donuts played along with their masks and their LARPing with incessant disinfecting? Reminds me of cowering under my desk in the 80s. Mass psychosis.
There is something in the Western mind that finds complete disaster romantic. Maybe it’s a remnant of the explorer spirit. Conquering the mutants (Indians) in the wasteland (frontier) to build a new Utopia (establish a new state). Every man can build the new world if he can pile skulls high enough to behold his brave new creation.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jan 15 2023 21:30 utc | 83
Posted by: A. Pols | Jan 15 2023 16:22 utc | 17
Hey man, “go peddle crazy somewhere else; we’re all stocked up here”
Are you so scared of The Bible, you can’t jump past it? Ever considered why that is?
Posted by: Anne B | Jan 15 2023 21:36 utc | 84
@Outraged | Jan 15 2023 18:16 utc | 40
Enormous thanks for your really useful summaries. The numbers I used were the closest approximation to reasonable I could find, because while Air Forces Monthly, December 2007, p. 64 claimed that Ukraine had 225 operational airframes, by December 2021, after severe attrition in 2014, both Janes and Forbes reported only a claimed 125 fixed wing airframes (including some 30 Su-25 swing wing combat aircraft) in operational condition, and with spares picked up all over the world after initiation of the SMO, added 20 airframes to that count after completing repairs.
Which is how we can be certain that Russia has obliterated almost twice as many Ukrainian aircraft as the Ukraine possessed at the start of the conflict. The same effect is now being seen atban exponential rate in mortars, artillery, and MLRS, which has left the Ukraine with insufficient projectile systems to launch an attack of any significance. At least until the next delivery of obsolete junk is delivered at exorbitant cost for Russia to shred.
Posted by: Hermit | Jan 15 2023 21:37 utc | 85
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jan 15 2023 21:30 utc | 83
we’ve come close to nuclear war several times. i think every time due to some aggressive maneuver by the west. still only one nation that has used nuclear weapons, i don’t think you have to postulate a doomsday cult to explain why people are worried about it.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 15 2023 21:39 utc | 86
So what will the west do ?
(a) more provocation.
………..
Any news on the whereabouts of the US B52 bombers / heavy lift transporters?
There activity at present could be a small indication which way the US may jump in the short term.
Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 15 2023 21:39 utc | 87
US wanting to send their Apache Ah-64 helicopters is a sign that (as always) Ukraine ran out / is running out of Warsaw pact/Soviet helicopters.
Same story for jets, they are scraping barrel of Mig-29 from Poland.
Same story with Bradley light tanks – Ukraine wasted their earlier batches of mish mash Nato periphery state provided APCs and IFVs.
Same story with Leopard 2 – direct result of Ukraine running out of T-72, then T-64 etc.
I said it before: the price tag from now on goes up several multiples for EU Nato vassals. No more free rides.
Posted by: unimperator | Jan 15 2023 21:47 utc | 88
At the same time Stepan bandera was refugee in Germany as well as Michael Chomiak a Nazi propagandist for Krakivski Visti (Krakow News). grandfather of current Canada Deputy Prime minister, Chrystia Freeland.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/freeland-knew-her-grandfather-was-editor-of-nazi-newspaper/article34236881/
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jan 15 2023 18:20 utc
According to John Helmer, Chrystia Freeland shares ownership of a home in central Kiev. He does not say with whom, nor does he describe the type of home.
Posted by: nwwoods | Jan 15 2023 21:56 utc | 89
@83 LoveDonbass
The ‘romantic’ part is that unlike Europe, they have not yet actually experienced a war on their own soil yet (yes yes, the civil war, but the only people who experienced that are no longer with us)
If there ever is an actual nuclear war, any of these jackass LARPers that are lucky enough to survive will be wishing they were back on the couch, buzzed on cheap wine, covered in Fritos, watching the best episodes of The Walking Dead.
The picnic they imagine will be about the furthest thing form the truth. Even movies like ‘The Road’ are understating it.
Posted by: Bob Jenkins | Jan 15 2023 22:09 utc | 90
Seems like some sort of hallucinogenic was added to the office water jug at the troll’s cave given the nature of their FUD attempts.
On Friday, it appeared many breakthroughs were occurring along the FEBA that Ukraine had no reserves available to plug. Since then, I’ve read no further updates on the situation put presume the general push forward continues.
There was a large missile assault, but little news of its outcome (perhaps I need to read the last third of the previous thread to see if I missed anything).
I already opined about the fate of the promised tanks and their NATO crews. And my bald statement about NATO not having any weapons capable of defeating Russia–not even the nukes–still stands unchallenged here and at Martyanov’s. The deafening silence I see as grudging recognition of my statement’s veracity.
The names and family connexions of those 8 perps who own the “Federal ” Reserve and similar financial control nexus are all to be found in Deanna Spingola’s huge and deeply researched/footnoted “The Ruling Elite”. The PTB are doing all they can to make that book unavailable. Check large regional libraries to see if they have a copy which would be loaned out to regional systems.
If that doesn’t work, get back in touch and I will endeavor to dig through my immense un-files to ferret out that info.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 15 2023 20:08 utc |
Available from Amazon.ca for 13.99 CAD for the kindle version.
https://www.amazon.ca/Ruling-Elite-Imperialism-Genocide-Emancipation-ebook/dp/B079585FMT/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=GRXIBABNPBJI&keywords=the+ruling+elites+by+deanna&qid=1673820660&s=books&sprefix=the+ruling+elites+by+deanna%2Caps%2C171&sr=1-1
Posted by: nwwoods | Jan 15 2023 22:15 utc | 92
Wherever he was placed for his personal welfare and safety, Bandera was coddled and supported by the OSS and the CIA. He was a useful front man.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Jan 15 2023 22:15 utc | 93
Posted by: klklklklklklk | Jan 15 2023 15:37 utc | 7
«have ethnic Ukrainians hated ethnic Russians more than they care about their life historically? Or is this the outcome of the propaganda moulding done over the last 15 years?»
The ruthenians in western ukraine (mostly Galivia and Volyhhia) don’t quite hate the russians, they resent them for the end of the lithuanian-ruthenian-polish empire. They also pretend to despise them for being in their view slav-mongol “mongrels”, instead of pure slavs like themselves. The propanda has moulded mostly the malorussians in central ukraine to make-believe that they ought to be ruthenians too.
Posted by: shadowbanned | Jan 15 2023 17:29 utc | 30
I think most of your reply is good, except for the lack of the distinction between malorussians in central Ukraine and the more directly russians in east Ukraine. This details seems to me slightly inaccurate:
«It was never reincorporated back into Rus/Russia until Volynia was recovered in the final partition of Poland in 1795.»
“Rus” for most of that history indicated western and central Ukraine, what we know now as “Russia” was called for a long time “Muscovy”. That explains many things, including the racism of the
In 1795 what was partitioned was the lithuanian-ruthenian-polish joint empire, the “intermarium”, in which the 3 main components were at various times dominant, even if in the latter part it was mostly dominant the polish component. There is a reasonable summary of a complicated mess here:
https://thesaker.is/article-by-vladimir-putin-on-the-historical-unity-of-russians-and-ukrainians/
«there are maps of Bandera statues around Ukraine from throughout the years, and you can see how circa 2005 they were all in Lvov, Ternopol and Ivano-Frankovsk, with something like a single one in Lutsk and another one in Rovno (the two main cities in Volynia)»
Ah interesting, so the expansion of “Greater Ruthenia” can be followed by the move eastwards of the boundary of new Bandera statues.
Posted by: Blissex | Jan 15 2023 22:16 utc | 94
That is to say that Bandera was an “elite” refugee. And not at all typical of what one thinks of as a refugee.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Jan 15 2023 22:17 utc | 95
Don Bacon @79
Of course Iran has likely got thousands of missiles and the Hezbollah a significant fraction of the former. Those missiles could essentially blanket the entirety of I$rael, with the largest numbers targeting the so-called “settlements” on the West Bank Palestinian “pale” of settlement. These fanatical Talmudist imperialists are absolutely the most bad actors within I$raeli society, as they constantly do all they can to destroy the Palestinians as a people, including cutting down thousand year old olive trees….a sin against not only humanity, but to one of the most giving life-forms in the botanical world.
Other major targets would be the nuke works at Dimona, all I$raeli air bases, perhaps as well as the Rottenchild financed and built Supreme Court building in Jerusalem and unto the naval and oil facilities in Haifa.
Main point I was making in the previous posting on the SU-35’s, is that their presence would create a powerful defensive shield for the Iranian nation.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 15 2023 22:27 utc | 96
2 weeks ago the west announced Ukraine’s new package of weapons and the Russians stated the western supply routes will be targeted(west Ukraine got smashed) This time they were targeted with missles that Nato didn’t even detect and instantly everyone walked it back.
They look like fools and will either need to send those goods or just get it over with and fold. The Russians pointed to Ukraine’s obsolete air defense as a huge weakness(they mean Nato’s current systems that Ukraine uses)
The realization that they can bomb people in bed without a warning must have a few money men in the west stressed right out.
Posted by: OohCanada | Jan 15 2023 22:29 utc | 97
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 15 2023 20:04 utc | 60
About Russia needing to take over most of the Ukraine to stop BlackRock?
Sadly, although I think Putin is a Russian leader who will go down in History with both Catherine and Peter the Greats , I still believe he is overly legalistic and forgiving. Even if Russia wins and I hope it does,resoundingly,for the good of all of us, I still believe Russia will honour those BlackRock contracts. Why ?
I don’t agree with his presumed reasoning, but I believe it will also include the following; to reengage Russia with Western finance and markets, and get the pressure off Russia. Blackrock totally cut – out , means lots of money for mercenaries to continuously make trouble for Russia as the CIA and M16 cooked-up in the Ukraine after 1945.
Posted by: Brother Ma | Jan 15 2023 22:30 utc | 98
Mark Sleboda:
Ukraine’s Commander-in-Chief is an Open Banderite Fascist
https://marksleboda.substack.com/p/ukraines-commander-in-chief-is-an
Posted by: Don Firineach | Jan 15 2023 22:32 utc | 99
For a few seconds I got connection to these websites until the server connection was disabled – I live in The Netherlands.
https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news.htm
https://eng.mil.ru/en/special_operation/news/more.htm?id=12451464@egNews