Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 25, 2023

Ukraine Claims Orderly Retreat From City It Lost Days Ago

This is currently at the top of the Yahoo homepage.


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Ukraine forces pull back from Donbas town after onslaught

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Ukrainian forces have conducted an organized retreat from a town in the eastern region of the Donbas, an official said Wednesday, in what is a rare but modest battlefield triumph for the Kremlin after a series of setbacks in its invasion that began almost 11 months ago.

Reading the headline I was surprised. Did the Ukrainian command suddenly get sense and ordered the retreat from Bakhmut, which the U.S. has asked for? It would make sense because Bakhmut is where half of the Ukrainian army currently gets ground into bloody dust.

But alas. The second paragraph provides that it is just another fake news story.

The Ukrainian army retreated from the salt-mining town of Soledar to “preserve the lives of the personnel,” Serhii Cherevatyi, a spokesperson for Ukraine’s forces in the east, told The Associated Press.

The soldiers pulled back to previously prepared defensive positions, he said.

Moscow has portrayed the battle for Soledar, which lies near the city of Bakhmut, as key to capturing the entire Donbas.
...
Russia claimed almost two weeks ago that it had taken Soledar, but Ukraine denied it.

It is easy to test who was or is lying here.

It was on January 13, 12 days and not two weeks ago, that Russia publicly claimed to have taken the center of Soledar.

Live UA Map provides a map of Ukraine that shows the daily progress and allows one to look back in time. It is Ukraine friendly in that it does only register Russian claimed progress when it can confirm it through additional sources. Here is its map from January 13. At that time the city center of Soladar was in Russian hand.


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And here is the map of January 15. Across the railway line there are two small villages on the outskirts of Bakhmut that technically are part of the city.


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But those were taken by January 19 after the railway had been crossed.


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There has been further progress made by Russian forces which the LiveUAMap still not reflects. But the likewise Ukraine friendly MilitaryLand site is another sources with independently made reasonable current maps. It shows more progress southwest and northwest of Soledar where the town of Karsnopolivka was additionally taken.


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To claim that Ukraine has now 'conducted an organized retreat' is simply bullshit. Its troops in Soledar were overrun more than a week ago. Many of them lost their lives.

Two days ago Larry Johnson had a post on another fake news piece about the fight in Soledar. It spoke of huge losses in the Wagner group that had stormed the city. But videos I saw but will not link showed dozens of dead Ukrainians and no dead Wagner in and around the city.

The fight was expensive but not so much for the Russian side.

I can recommend the PMC Wagner video Best In Hell especially for those who have no military experience. Warning: It is a realistic depiction of brutal combined arms fighting in upbuild areas. It also explains what is happening on the command level. The 1 hour 50 minutes long video has English subtitles. It depicts Russian and Ukrainian soldiers as equally decent men in equal trouble differentiated only by the white and yellow sides they are fighting on.

I also recommend M.K. Bhadrakumar's recent piece that summarizes the war so far and looks into its future: Ukraine war’s first anniversary and beyond. As he is 'neutral' between the 'West' and Russia and has rich diplomatic experience his view is always of interest.

Posted by b on January 25, 2023 at 17:00 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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Highly enthusiastic and motivated Ukrainian forces retreat as corpses

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jan 25 2023 17:02 utc | 1

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/18/us/politics/ukraine-crimea-military.html

us crosses another of its red lines to provide long range weapons. commits to drive Russia out of Crimea.

Posted by: Nitsuj | Jan 25 2023 17:07 utc | 2

Ugledar is the new street to street battleground. Russia is active along the entire front.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Jan 25 2023 17:07 utc | 3

This is old, but I (sadly) learned a new German word today: "Gleichschaltung"

Posted by: PavewayIV | Jan 25 2023 17:18 utc | 4

thanks b...

ukraine does an orderly retreat, but russia is always losing land like kherson and there was no orderly retreat.. as @ jen said in the previous thread - orwellian! up is down and down is up and one may as well be living in alice in wonderland, as opposed to reading anything from the western corporate media... it is generally complete bullshit and one sided in the extreme... western msm - the news info crackheads.. stay away!

Posted by: james | Jan 25 2023 17:18 utc | 5

Thumbs up for Best in Hell.

What I liked most about the movie is that it explains the different weapon systems and how they are used. I have a better understanding of the tactics used in urban warfare and the escalation process from grenade launchers all the way to MLRS.

Even though it is produced by Wagner it isn’t excessively jingoistic or nauseatingly patriotic. The Ukrainians are seen as equally capable soldiers. It shows the war as brother Slav vs brother Slav. A real tragedy.

Posted by: Down South | Jan 25 2023 17:22 utc | 6

Been reading Twitter posts that seem to somehow have inside information about Ukrainian government.
Supposedly, USA was behind recent purges in Ukrainian government and US/NATO have taken over direct control of some portions of Ukrainian military/government.
This might be true and would explain the sudden change in tactics that Pentagon supposedly has been demanding for some time.
Also, explain recent announcement of German and US tanks hitting the front in the future.
NATO will be in direct control.

Posted by: Mar man | Jan 25 2023 17:23 utc | 7

Expect to see more puff pieces like this in the future: as the Ukrainian army implodes in real time, the Shitstream media in the West will publish more and more stories about 'orderly withdrawals' of Ukrainian troops that result in 'rare, but modest' victories for Russia.

Posted by: Monos | Jan 25 2023 17:24 utc | 8

The opening part of best in hell gives their ethics, what they fight for. Goes back to a lot of old style honor. A saw the early videos of Soledar. In some place bodies laying in heaps where they fell. Wagner put them all in coffins and sent them back, not like the nazi's phoning the mothers of their victims but just treating them with respect and allowing the families to bury those who died.

As for the domestic propaganda in Ukraine, Zelensky is between a rock and a hard place. He must convince the Ukrainian people they are winning and keep the cannon fodder flowing to the frontlines otherwise the gravy train stops.

Again we see video on telegram of Ukraine combat units so degraded they cannot carry out combat duties. From the Ukraine channels I read a crackdown on this is underway. I assume most of those, survivors of units that have appeared in those videos will be killed.

We live in a time when it is exceptionally dangerous to live in ignorance of the big picture. Particularly so within countries that for the US are simply cannon fodder.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 25 2023 17:24 utc | 9

💥💥💥Ugledar is a heavily reinforced fortress and a key stronghold in the area that is protecting the flank of the Ukrainian Maryinka-Kurakhovo line from the south. It has enormous consequences and its fall will inevitably lead to the fall of Maryinka and imperil Kurakhovo💥💥💥

https://t.me/geromanat/4745

Posted by: Down South | Jan 25 2023 17:25 utc | 10

@ Mar man | Jan 25 2023 17:23 utc | 7

nato has been in control all along.. that is why ukraine is presently f@ked... nato wouldn't have it any other way! war=money..........

Posted by: james | Jan 25 2023 17:27 utc | 11

🤚The advance of the Wagner PMC fighters in the vicinity of Bakhmut, as well as on the outskirts of the city, forces the Ukrainian command to redeploy more and more forces to this area.

According to various estimates, about 30,000 of the most combat-ready Ukrainian troops are concentrated near Bakhmut.
Those reserves that Kyiv was preparing for the Zaporizhzhya and Svatov directions are now being sent in the Bakhmut direction, which is to say that the Wagnerians have deprived the Ukrainians of the potential for major offensives.

Ukraine continues to mobilize to man the brigades that are suffering losses in the "Bakhmut meat grinder," so the number of fighters near Bakhmut is steadily increasing. 

Despite all this,🤚 Wagner is moving forward.


https://t.me/Slavyangrad/30579

Posted by: Down South | Jan 25 2023 17:28 utc | 12

Thanks b for this update on Ukr Hollywood-style propaganda. As many have noted, Russia is waging a real war (for its existence), whereas Ukr is waging a PR war. In the West Ukr is winning the PR war hands-down. In the real world things are otherwise, as anyone willing to fight Russia in a ground war on its own territory has found out, consistently all thru history. It is unbelievable to me that the "West" (i.e., the US deep State, MIC and feckless pols) are this stupid, alas, here we go again.

Posted by: NewJerseyJoe | Jan 25 2023 17:30 utc | 13

Mar man | Jan 25 2023 17:23 utc | 7

From what I make of it, UK not US owned Zelensky. US is now taking control by removing all those about Zelensky. Bit hard I guess to retain the image of democracy if they simply top him. The US UK stuff goes all the way back to Cecil Rhodes. Mother England and her black sheep offspring.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 25 2023 17:32 utc | 14

I'm also starting to sense the Russians are better at hiding their preparations and are looking for tactical advances anywhere now that ukraine has gaps in its lines. During ww2 they would consciously keep moving around to get 4 to 1 or more advantages in firepower as the nazi lines thinned. Once reserves moved in they would hit a different place until a breakthrough happened when they ran out of reserves.

I'm seeing a similar pattern here. That's why their activated south front didn't mean a big move, but continously search for tactical advantage until something breaks. If ukraine can't replace the reserves it's going to start working.

Could invite a nato intervention especially if Odessa is threatened

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Jan 25 2023 17:33 utc | 15

genocide, seriously?

how many ppl died in Donbass? look to Rwanda to know how a genocide looks like.

Donbass is a civil war with Russian meddling. that SMO is as much about *right to protect* as was the bays of pigs invasion.

it's about control.

don't believe silly kreml propaganda about defeating nazis and what not
(for that matter russia should first sweep at home)

Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 17:39 utc | 16

Thanks Mar Man, as the smoke clears we can see more clearly now that NATO is in control and that Putin isn't losing as bad as we are being told.

Posted by: Martin Arauxo | Jan 25 2023 17:39 utc | 17

Neofeudalfuture | Jan 25 2023 17:33 utc | 15

US is recommending Ukraine move to maneuver warfare. That is very much about preserving forces rather than holding territory. Regardless of rhetoric, Ukraine was divied up some time ago in the talks between respective security council chiefs. Nuclear armed UK is the wild card.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 25 2023 17:44 utc | 18

Thanks for the posting explaining the propaganda time warp that is occurring.

All us MoA barflys know that the tanks are too little/too late but the Wag The Dog crank of the production handle has given us days of delusional rhetoric about which tin cans make better coffins and how long to delivery.....but nothing about the military cost to shuffle the shit around and look productive.....and when capitulation comes, Z and others can say, "If only we had......, things would have ended differently".

So the SMO is going to be over before any tanks cross the borders it seems to me and then the rollback to 1997 NATO status is up for discussion.....


SSDD same shit/different day in the middle of our civilization war about barbarism or socialism

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 25 2023 17:45 utc | 19

this war is the umpteenth time the last 100 years for Russia to roll its tanks across the border to squash an uprising and establish control. aka the prime and foremost behaviour of an empire.

typically prefaced by a "protecting minorities" or "business interests" or "strategic interests" BS fest

not unlike the US did in cuba, spain in Haiti, or britain did ireland.

Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 17:45 utc | 20

I watched Best In Hell and I took it as an anti-war movie. I agree that it was balanced in that it was not pro-Russia or pro-Ukraine. It was two groups of competent men bent on killing each other to gain control of a building.

It showed the senseless brutality of war and made the point that a civil war is most tragic of all.

I hate that the US has baited Russia into depopulating Ukraine for the benefit of US corporations. There was no alternative though, since Ukraine, back by the US, was poised to depopulate Donbass. What was Russia supposed to do?

Anyway, without a mass mutiny by Ukie troops, the slaughter will continue but morale will not improve.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jan 25 2023 17:46 utc | 21

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 25 2023 17:44 utc | 18

The US should have told the Ukrainians that eleven months ago. Had they done so, Ukraine might still have an army today.

Posted by: Monos | Jan 25 2023 17:55 utc | 22

wagelaborer | Jan 25 2023 17:46 utc | 21 "I hate that the US has baited Russia into depopulating Ukraine for the benefit of US corporations."

I would put it another way. US/UK has brain washed the ordinary Ukrainians into a path of self destruction. Some similarities to Syria where local militia units fought alongside extremists. After the initial phase, Russia was able to separate the militias from the extremists. A lesson was learned from that by the west and so in Ukraine nazi extremists kill any regular forces that wants to retreat or surrender.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 25 2023 17:56 utc | 23

Thanks b for the link to "Best in Hell"

Posted by: pachinko | Jan 25 2023 17:57 utc | 24

I guess we can all conclude that Ukraine will not be joining NATO. In fact, it looks like Ukraine will cease to exist in any meaningful way.

The map of the world is littered with states that no longer exist. Decades from now Ukraine will be long forgotten, like Pomerania.

This is what happens when you jump into bed with the US and NATO: you give up your sovereignty for sweet lies, and then your nation ceases to exist.

Posted by: Augustus Caesar | Jan 25 2023 17:59 utc | 25

CNBC
U.S. will send Abrams tanks to Ukraine ahead of expected Russian offensive

WASHINGTON – The Biden administration announced on Wednesday it will equip Ukraine with the mighty M1A1 Abrams tank, a key reversal in the West’s effort to arm Kyiv as it prepares for a fresh Russian offensive.
The 31 M1A1 Abrams tanks, which amount to one Ukrainian tank battalion, will expand on the more than $26 billion the U.S. has committed to Kyiv’s fight since Russia invaded nearly a year ago. The tanks will “enhance Ukraine’s capacity to defend its territory and achieve its strategic objectives,” Biden said from the Roosevelt Room of the White House. “Delivering these tanks to the field is going to take time. Time that we’ll see and we’ll use to make sure the Ukrainians are fully prepared,” he added. . .here

Meanwhile, Russia says Germany’s decision to supply Leopard tanks to Ukraine ‘extremely dangerous’. Russia has repeatedly warned Western nations against supplying tanks and other weapons to Ukraine, claiming that they would “regret” sending them.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 25 2023 18:02 utc | 26

CNBC
U.S. will send Abrams tanks to Ukraine ahead of expected Russian offensive

WASHINGTON – The Biden administration announced on Wednesday it will equip Ukraine with the mighty M1A1 Abrams tank, a key reversal in the West’s effort to arm Kyiv as it prepares for a fresh Russian offensive.
The 31 M1A1 Abrams tanks, which amount to one Ukrainian tank battalion, will expand on the more than $26 billion the U.S. has committed to Kyiv’s fight since Russia invaded nearly a year ago. The tanks will “enhance Ukraine’s capacity to defend its territory and achieve its strategic objectives,” Biden said from the Roosevelt Room of the White House. “Delivering these tanks to the field is going to take time. Time that we’ll see and we’ll use to make sure the Ukrainians are fully prepared,” he added. . .here

Meanwhile, Russia says Germany’s decision to supply Leopard tanks to Ukraine ‘extremely dangerous’. Russia has repeatedly warned Western nations against supplying tanks and other weapons to Ukraine, claiming that they would “regret” sending them.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 25 2023 18:02 utc | 27

The US should have told the Ukrainians that eleven months ago. Had they done so, Ukraine might still have an army today.
Posted by: Monos | Jan 25 2023 17:55 utc | 22

For the US - deep state US, Ukrainians are simply pawns on a chessboard. Plan A was fast economic destruction of the Russian federation. Plan B is make Russia pay a price.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 25 2023 18:07 utc | 28

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/germany%E2%80%99s-leopard-2-tanks-will-help-crush-russia-206149

This is a terrifying opinion piece because it represents a mainstream, respected source and is utterly delusional. It's scary how bizarre this whole conflict has become.
If all goes well, Putin will have succeeded beyond his or anyone's dreams in demilitarizing NATO and permanently ending Ukraine as a threat. They may be drained away completely on the battlefield. After that, the multipolar world may find a balance not seen in decades.

Posted by: Eighthman | Jan 25 2023 18:08 utc | 29

Scott Ritter's latest, with some memories for the tanks, quoting Petr Bystron of Alternative for Germany:

“German tanks [fighting] against Russia in Ukraine,” Bystron challenged his colleagues, “remember, your grandfathers tried to do the same trick, together with [Ukrainian nationalists] Melnik, Bandera and their supporters.

“The result was immense suffering, millions of casualties on both sides and, eventually, Russian tanks came here, to Berlin. Two of those tanks remain on permanent display nearby, and you must keep this in mind when you pass them by every morning,” Bystron said, referring to the two Soviet T-34 tanks at the Tiergarten memorial to fallen Soviet soldiers.

https://consortiumnews.com/2023/01/24/scott-ritter-the-nightmare-of-nato-equipment-being-sent-to-ukraine/

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jan 25 2023 18:09 utc | 30

Wagner Orchestra explains the "organized" part of the retreat. (via Slavyangrad)

Fighters of the Wagner PMC have sent a new batch of servicemen killed during the fighting for Soledar to the Ukrainian side.

The process is taking place within the framework of agreements with the enemy side. Special vehicles delivered the coffins to Kiev-controlled territory.

The commander with the call sign "Lotos" said that 4-5 batches of bodies of AFU fighters would be delivered to Ukrainian territory in the near future, with about 20 vehicles involved in the process.

Yevgeny Prigozhin has repeatedly said that Wagner is respectful to the enemy:

"One must always be respectful of the enemy, and demanding of allies. So we certainly show respect."

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/30527

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jan 25 2023 18:11 utc | 31

@my 26
from PBS --
WATCH LIVE: White House’s Karine Jean-Pierre holds briefing amid news U.S. will send tanks to Ukraine at 1:30PM EST. here. . .That's in thirteen minutes

Posted by: Don Bacon | Jan 25 2023 18:17 utc | 32

Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 17:45 utc | 20

Among the 248 armed conflicts that occurred in 153 regions across the world from 1945 to 2001, 201 were initiated by the US, accounting for 81% of the total.1

Posted by: Passerby | Jan 25 2023 18:17 utc | 33

"Look to Rwanda to know how a genocide looks like." Excuse me? The "West" fabricated all that story and have kept their man Kagame in power ever since. Read "the politics of Genocide" by Edward Herman and David Peterson to get the real story. This conflict is following the usual lying"explanations" of the West.

Posted by: rosemerry | Jan 25 2023 18:21 utc | 34

Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 17:39 utc | 16

malarkey is irish for propaganda.

you can stop, most here know about the 2014 cia coup......

and that map of sundered russia in the halls of the deep state swamp.

Posted by: paddy | Jan 25 2023 18:24 utc | 35

declassified CIA docs commend the ukrainian nazis for their skill in propaganda, so it makes sense that they would rely on that as their greatest strength - from putting an actor into the presidency, to the massive complexes designed strictly for fellating MSM journalists' egos and managing media, to the constant accusations of war crimes as a way of keeping Ukraine on the front page of every media site. Historically, it's one of their specialties.

Posted by: robert the zombie | Jan 25 2023 18:28 utc | 36

I doubt the Ukrainian retreat from Soledar was as orderly and well-executed as the Russian regrouping in Kharkiv and Kherson.

In other news, Western tanks with superior thermal visions are coming to Ukraine (Russia cannot produce it's own thermal visions, it relies entirely on pre-sanction imports from France), thus another one of the Kremlin's red lines have been trodden on and we are ever closer to nuclear annihilation!!!


March 20, 2022:
"Transports and convoys with weapons and ammunition supplied to Ukraine by NATO countries are a legitimate target for the Russian Armed Forces" - statement by the Russian Defense Ministry

April 19, 2022:
“Western weapons supplied to Kyiv are a legitimate target on the territory of Ukraine for the Russian Armed Forces conducting a special operation there,” said Petr Ilyichev, director of the Department of International Organizations of the Russian Foreign Ministry.

April 21, 2022:
“Russian troops have the right to consider US or NATO transport transporting weapons through Ukrainian territory as a legitimate target,” said Sergei Koshelev, deputy director of the North America Department of the Russian Foreign Ministry.

December 22, 2022:
“All military equipment sent to Ukraine will be tracked and considered as a legitimate target,” said Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova.

January 24, 2023:
“We are sending more and more signals that some red lines have been crossed, but perhaps the reddest of them have not yet been crossed,” said Dmitry Polyansky, First Deputy Permanent Representative of Russia to the UN

Posted by: Bernd | Jan 25 2023 18:28 utc | 37

Well, I for one consider ukraine propaganda laughably amateur and ironically, closer to reality than western MSM.

Reality is catching up in ukieland, missiles are owerflying, there is no power, and all the relatives of dead ( I mean, "missing") soldiers suspect something. Ukie gov can't lie too much, it has to yield.

On the other hand, MSM western propaganda just invented 3 new genders, landed on Mars and modified 400 years of history just last week. They don't and won't have to even remotely yield to reality - they create it.


And don't forget, after 1944 nazi Germany only had victory after victory, in battles at towns and places ever closer and closer to Berlin.

Posted by: Abe | Jan 25 2023 18:31 utc | 38

Posted by: wagelaborer | Jan 25 2023 17:46 utc | 21

the Russo-Ukrainian war is a good example of how Western ideas of nations, states, groups, identity etc are no longer relevant, assuming they ever worked outside of western europe. this notion that one belongs to a group, and that that group must carve out a space solely for people in that group, has been the root of centuries of unending warfare in Europe and makes zero sense as an identity in a place where easy geographic borders are hard to come by, like, say, steppes.

really, the sooner we stop murdering each other over lines on a map and recognize that history and identity are way more complicated and fluid than nationalists like to believe, the easier it will be to avoid nuclear war.

Posted by: hubrert | Jan 25 2023 18:31 utc | 39

Today, Yahoo is claiming on french channels that the Wagner group has lost 80% of its 50K fighters and is on the verge of collapse.

The very crucial moment when this never ending spiral of lies will have to confront reality and the utter defeat of the american Deep State in its Ukraine venture will be quite epic.

Posted by: Pierrot | Jan 25 2023 18:34 utc | 40

Petri Krohn | Jan 25 2023 18:11 utc | 30 Wagner Orchestra explains the "organized" part of the retreat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5zNH6R1zsE

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 25 2023 18:34 utc | 41

Our source reports that the military commissars were instructed to guard not only near the shopping center and passageways, but also near enterprises where men can leave after their shift. The task is to guard and catch the men.

https://t.me/legitimniy/14637

Man is snatched from his house in front of his wife and child in Cherkasy

https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1618306308473778179

Video in embedded in link.

Posted by: Down South | Jan 25 2023 18:35 utc | 42


Peter AU1 | 27
Fast destruction of Russia may have been the plan. It isn’t now as far as I can see. The “plan” now -for both sides- seems to be “exhaust opponent resources”. If this is the case then don’t expect any quick resolution. This “operation” will drag on for years.

The only question is if the mask comes off and the West declares outright war.

Posted by: VtObserver | Jan 25 2023 18:39 utc | 43

Posted by: Down South | Jan 25 2023 17:22 utc | 6
"best in Hell"
I agree with you, it is showing Ukrainians equally capable soldiers, and that this war is a real, unspeakable tragedy.

It is unclear to me how the scenes of the Ukrainian side (the 'yellow' side) was filmed, did the camera of Rogozin have equal access to them? Or was it staged? How would Ukrainian military allow that? So, it seems to me that it was staged.

The second and more important point is - that this movie was perhps made with the intention for future re-conciliation of the Slave brothers. It shows that this fratricidal war is so senseless, so against the interest and future peace between the Slavic people. Maybe it will help to understand each other, and also to search, who was the instigator of this tragedy. The guilty people will hopefully be known to future generations.

Posted by: fanto | Jan 25 2023 18:39 utc | 44

Posted by: Passerby | Jan 25 2023 18:17 utc | 32

defending imperialist behaviour with other imperialist behaviour? interesting

Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 18:41 utc | 45

Same MSM fake news back in 2014/15 when the Nazi stormtroopers were caught in cauldrons by the Donbass militia. Western MSM were growing about awesome victories by the patriotic Ukrainian military in crushing the Russian invaders! When in actual fact it was one cauldron after another and the begging for retreat routes out leaving all heavy weapons and only on foot or on BMPs. Deviation from agreed form of retreat would be smashed by artillery barrages.
But reading BBC it would still be old maps and victories.
Back then we have Southfront, Cassad, Saker, MOA, for real news on the Donbass.
The Nazis were totally smashed and nothing could stop the Donbass militia from driving to Mariupol.

Posted by: Surferket | Jan 25 2023 18:42 utc | 46

Posted by: rosemerry | Jan 25 2023 18:21 utc | 33

you really wanna tell me Donbass had a scale of genocide? look at the numbers, that claim is ludicrous

Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 18:43 utc | 47

eally, the sooner we stop murdering each other over lines on a map and recognize that history and identity are way more complicated and fluid than nationalists like to believe, the easier it will be to avoid nuclear war.

Posted by: hubrert | Jan 25 2023 18:31 utc | 38

so fluid Russia has decided it wants new borders and started murdering its neighbor state

Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 18:45 utc | 48

Orderly retreat from Soledar ? Oh FFS!

@ PavewayIV | Jan 25 2023 17:18 utc | 4

Always good to have known facts corroborated. :(

@ Peter AU1 | Jan 25 2023 17:24 utc | 9

Publicized findings of court-martials resulting in executions are in train as requested by Gen Zaluszhny due morale & discipline breakdown where units, even NCOs & Sub-Unit & Unit Commanders flatly refuse orders or unilaterally withdraw from the line without orders or authorization.

AFU collapse ? Clock is ticking.

@ Peter AU1 | Jan 25 2023 17:44 utc | 18

Delusional. AFU has long lost that capability, utterly, and without actual materiel (AFVs/Arty/Air/AD) & high functioning secure logistics, facing yet to be unleashed minimum 3 x Combined Arms Armies ? Hah !

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 25 2023 18:48 utc | 49

At this point all they can do is just keep pumping out stories for the uninformed masses as a broad brush form of copium just to keep the ball rolling. Those of us that have followed the battle space for the past 8years know better. We have seen the bodies and I thought it touching that the Wagner lads were boxing them up and sending off for the grieving families. It appears that one side is trying to preserve it humanity while the other has been possessed by the Grand Wurlitzer’s hatred program.

Posted by: Chevrus | Jan 25 2023 18:51 utc | 50

@Posted by: Andreas

Looks like we have a new sock puppet in the saloon fellas, much like the steadily degrading quality of UAF, this one is barely phoning it in.

C’mon Andreas, do try a little better to generate some outrage!

Posted by: MillerJ | Jan 25 2023 18:54 utc | 51

@Andreas #46

Have you looked at the UN definition of genocide? Your statement is ludicrous.

Posted by: Hardrockfan229 | Jan 25 2023 18:56 utc | 52

@18
The U.K. has no nuclear power. It has submarines but takes its orders and permissions from thé US. Just to ‘reassure’ you.

Posted by: Valerie Swales | Jan 25 2023 18:57 utc | 53

@18
The U.K. has no nuclear power. It has submarines but takes its orders and permissions from thé US. Just to ‘reassure’ you.

Posted by: Valerie Swales | Jan 25 2023 18:57 utc | 54

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 25 2023 17:56 utc | 23

Do you have some links to share highlighting the Russian approach to separating moderate from extermist? Would be interesting to educate myself.

A lesson was learned from that by the west and so in Ukraine nazi extremists kill any regular forces that wants to retreat or surrender.

This sounds too much like the recounting of a Sven Hassel view of the Soviet комиссáр archetype to be a literal reality - no lessons to be learnt there.

Posted by: Teal | Jan 25 2023 19:08 utc | 55

That's like projection but in reverse. The Ukrainians are copying the true story of Russian orderly retreat from Kharkiv and Kherson and reporting it about themselves in Soledar.

But it's not just a psychological response. With this version they were able to wait until the battle for Soledar is old news when nobody is interested and then suggest that it's no big deal, just a tactical retreat.

Posted by: Brendan | Jan 25 2023 19:10 utc | 56

I have seen very recent videos of Ukrainian forces barging into people's homes and taking people off the street and forcibly conscripting them. I thought it was notable that virtually all of these were west of the Dniepr rather than east of it.

Also reports from Lviv that checkpoints are being set up and every vehicle in/out of the city being checked for male occupants.

If Ukraine is starting to forcibly conscript people from far west of the Dniepr (that are not ethnic minorities such as the Hungarians in Transcarpathia), it could potentially be a sign Ukraine is starting to struggle for voluntary conscripts.

I imagine many men fled the country while they still could...

Posted by: kojiwind | Jan 25 2023 19:13 utc | 57

Mark my words, it's going to be England that picks up the bill or tab for this whole conflict, I hope they are beginning to realise that.
In the west people tend to want instant gratification, less so in Russia. The bill has been getting longer by the month, in every definition of the word.
Putin has said as much.

What will this fact look like on English soil, now would be a good time to discuss that topic, in the faint hope it could deter the UK stepping into the abyss.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 25 2023 19:16 utc | 58


Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 18:45 utc | 47

https://twitter.com/Bernade58733135/status/1616011753015443456

Posted by: Vikichka | Jan 25 2023 19:16 utc | 59

Joe Biden condemns brutal Ukrainian aggression.
Source: https://t.me/Slavyangrad/30624


Posted by: SwissGuy | Jan 25 2023 19:17 utc | 60

Biden Gives Green Light To Retake Crimea. 31 Abrams on way to Ukraine. Also 7 B52 Strategic bombers.
I think this means open war between NATO/US/UK/EU and Russia.

https://warnews247.gr/prasino-fos-bainten-gia-ktypima-stin-krimaia-xekinise-i-metafora-31-m1a2-abrams-pros-oukrania-metastathmefsi-7-vomvardistikon-v-52-stin-evropi/

Posted by: jgalt | Jan 25 2023 19:18 utc | 61

Posted by: VtObserver | Jan 25 2023 18:39 utc | 42

Interesting to see if yanks and Brits want to go try their luck to save Bakhmut. Perhaps Jens Stoltenburger will lead the charge of Leopards.

Posted by: unimperator | Jan 25 2023 19:18 utc | 62

Tried to watch Best In Hell. Cast is all agile limber stunt men. I've never been on a construction site where half the crew was up to that standard. I've known pro bike racing teams who stumble through the day nursing along the battle scarred - or where everyone had some level of injury. In a prison? No, you cannot find men like that in a prison.

Filmed in good weather in some place lush. Crimea? In January I picture the yellow team as cold, hungry, wet, frostbitten, barely moving. Barely moving even under extreme duress. Everyone on the yellow team is going to be PTSD from the constant shelling and the constant death. If white team (in real world) has a functioning logistic system that gives them food, some measure of warm for sleep, guns that fire instead of jam, any clue where the enemy is, the yellow team is going to see the white team as stuntman supermen.

Hollywood on the battlefield? No.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jan 25 2023 19:24 utc | 63

Annalena's Lip Service has consequences
Es konnte kaum anders ausgehen


German Foreign Minister A. Baerbock said during a debate at the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) on Tuesday


“And therefore I’ve said already in the last days – yes, we have to do more to defend Ukraine. Yes, we have to do more also on tanks,” Baerbock said “But the most important and the crucial part is that we do it together and that we do not do the blame game in Europe, because we are fighting a war against Russia and not against each other.”

Posted by: La Bastille | Jan 25 2023 19:26 utc | 64

Two Drive-by Trollers are on the prey. Ignore.

= = = = = =

What is the total MBT pledges so far? We need to be seen to be helping UKR resist and excel on the battlefield. However.
Some to be washed, re-assembled, oil change and painted; on a good day, earliest delivery April-May. Keep fingers crossed.

= = = = = =

Wet is Dry and Winter has been cancelled. We have been teleported to Pluto.

Ms. Merkel’s and Mr. Hollande’s confessions that the Minsk’s guaranteed Agreement was intended and used to buy valuable time for Ukraine has been countered by Ukraine. Wait for this, with a straight face.

Ukraine advises West on how to negotiate with Russia

Foreign minister claims Moscow used Minsk truce to buy time, against Franco-German evidence

RT:

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmitry Kuleba has claimed that Kiev negotiated in good faith for years, while Moscow used the Minsk process mediated by Paris and Berlin to buy time for war. He also argued the West is not enough for peace, which can only come when the Global South sides with Ukraine.

“For eight years, Ukraine and the West tried to end the war by means of politics and diplomacy,” Kuleba argued in a Politico op-ed on Tuesday, titled “How Not to Negotiate with Russia.”  The Minsk process, initiated in 2014 by France and Germany, saw Ukraine agree to “years of fruitless negotiations” in order to “avoid escalation and preserve peace in Europe,” he wrote.

“While we were holding back, Russia was building up,” Kuleba said, claiming that Moscow was “preparing for a full-scale war on Ukraine” all along, in order to “destroy the democratic international order with a single devastating blow.”

Ukraine fully adhered to the Minsk process, while Russia  “never sought fair peace and fair play,”  Kuleba claimed.[.]

(Italics are original) (Bold added)


Enough of a read because your hair will be hurt. The UKR lands shall be cleansed. It is written.

Posted by: Likklemore | Jan 25 2023 19:27 utc | 65

So interesting. When AFU claims an organized retreat. That infers a mere 7% including the walking wounded were able to run away.

In other news. Kublinka Tank museum staff sends a thank you telegram to Prez Joe in the USSA. For the generous donation of a geriatric gen 1 "Abrams". Sadly due to extensive radioactive dust contamination inside and outside. A complete strip-down of all components has been initiated. To allow for deep cleaning and paint removal to bare metal. To allow this trash to be put on open display.

Posted by: Bad Deal Motors On | Jan 25 2023 19:34 utc | 66

Mar man @ 7:

I have seen similar online reports and tweets that the recent purges of top Ukrainian govt officials were carried out at the behest of the US govt and in particular of the CIA. CIA chief William Burns must have had quite a long list of things to tell Zelensky when he visited Kiev. Increasingly the US / NATO will be directing military strategy for Ukrainian armed forces and Zaluzhny and his people will be pushed to the sidelines if not out altogether.

Former UK Prime minister Boris Johnson also visited Kiev again at UK taxpayer expense and with Rishi Sunak's approval even though he is now only a backbencher. He can't have gone just to do another lines of coke with fellow cokehead Zelensky. One wonders what false promises Johnson made this time.

Posted by: Jen | Jan 25 2023 19:35 utc | 67

Valerie Swales [53]

You are very much mistaken. Of course U.K. has nuclear power stations. It also has SSBNs armed with same missiles as US drawn from same stockpile in King’s Bay, GA

Not clear what point you think to make

Posted by: Paul Greenwood | Jan 25 2023 19:36 utc | 68

@36 Bernd

"Russia cannot produce it's own thermal visions, it relies entirely on pre-sanction imports from France"

Are you sure everything comes from France and is under sanctions? So how is this company still operating https://www.youtube.com/@user-rn7xw6xt8v/featured

Just the other day, I saw a video of a Wagner sniper using the "Venox Patriot" thermal vision system, which appears to use optics from this company.

So even if it's all imported, it hasn't run out yet.

Posted by: Jonas | Jan 25 2023 19:36 utc | 69

Andreas is a fairly common name here in Sweden, and I'm afraid his opinions are equally common. So he is probably just another propagandized Swedish simpleton. There is a no shortage of those.

Posted by: p | Jan 25 2023 19:38 utc | 70

Actually, although official Ukrainian date is wrong (or they just announced it in the past tense), it was an orderly retreat, including leaving behind a rearguard that, well, did not make it. Apparently, there are new trench lines several kilometers to the West.

It is indeed ruthless trading lives for time. I have no doubts that AFU have reserves and the abysmal "recruitment scenes" are collecting soldiers at least several months in advance.
-----------
Biden Gives Green Light To Retake Crimea. 31 Abrams on way to Ukraine. Also 7 B52 Strategic bombers.
I think this means open war between NATO/US/UK/EU and Russia.

Posted by: jgalt | Jan 25 2023 19:18 utc | 59

The light is green but dim. B52 have can fly for a long time, but I am not sure if they are a good fit for actual air warfare, and 31 Abrams...

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Jan 25 2023 19:39 utc | 71

@ Brendan | Jan 25 2023 19:10 utc | 55

Yep. Retreat & flee in disorder.

The RF did not 'retreat' from Kharkiv or Kherson, t'was an orderly tactical withdrawal. It is a key difference.

As have said before, re Kherson especially, it was a textbook Operational & tactical 'withdrawal', from a threatened bridgehead, over contested river crossings, inclusive of civilians & arms & materiel, whilst in contact with the enemy & under fire, in less than 48hrs.

The most difficult & demanding & complex feat of arms demanded in warfare.

All the AFU could do was look on sheepishly & tentatively wander into the former positions & Kherson city in small numbers over the following days.

Yet absolute BS fantasist recountings, referenced & repeated endlessly as for B's post article topic. Grating.

@ jgalt | Jan 25 2023 19:18 utc | 59

If RF assesses US/NATO direct commitment or even confirmed build up in train to such status, they will pre-empt to open War, no more Slow-SMO confined to Ukraine. They unequivocally demonstrated that 24Feb22.

See: Six-Day War, Arab-Israeli War '67, pre-emptive War vs Egypt, Syria, & Jordan.

@ Jonas | Jan 25 2023 19:36 utc | 67

Best advised not to 'feed' it or kindred.

Posted by: Outraged | Jan 25 2023 19:41 utc | 72

Barflies,

2 Survey Questions :

1) how long will Ukrainian civil war last ?
2) how long will (not-so) Cold War 2.0 last ?

I asked these questions a few months ago rough consensus was Ukrainian Civil war would go on until 2024-25 and Cold War 2.0 for many years more. Interested in your thinking today. Thank you.

Posted by: Exile | Jan 25 2023 19:43 utc | 73

we are fighting a war against Russia and not against each other.”
Posted by: La Bastille | Jan 25 2023 19:26 utc | 62
Annlea Bonehead isn't going to talk herself out if that nugget.
Anyone the German patrons!
Can you please explain the mental illness and hypocrisy that is the German green party ideology?

Posted by: jpc | Jan 25 2023 19:46 utc | 74

They have their own thermal vision. You may not believe them, but it's what they say. Not that it would be hard to get those parts anyway.
You should watch Combat Approved on yt, 90% of what people ask here was explained there years ago.

Posted by: rk | Jan 25 2023 19:51 utc | 75

Great Irish Times article by History Prof. Geoffrey Roberts.
West Risks War With Russia

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/01/25/germans-are-right-to-think-twice-about-sending-leopard-tanks-to-ukraine/

Posted by: jgalt | Jan 25 2023 19:53 utc | 76

Nazi Gleichschaltung and Western media control

@PavewayIV | Jan 25 2023 17:18 utc | 4

This is old, but I (sadly) learned a new German word today: "Gleichschaltung"

Nine years ago someone from Germany, but using a pseudonym inspired by a British horror story, contacted me on Facebook's Messenger. He said he had noticed that similar propaganda and fake news stories were appearing simultaneously in different languages in the Western media. Often the stories were disguised as "investigative journalism", but evidently they were all planted by the same intelligence service source. We concluded that the operation was similar to the Gleichschaltung practiced in Nazi Germany.

Soon after Facebook deleted the pseudonymous account and along with it most of our discussion. Facebook claimed his messages were spam or abusive. I posted a screenshot of the messages to my Facebook account.

Would you be comfortable with an email / message service that deletes your inbox if they do not like the sender?

Incidentally, the deleted discussion was about Gleichschaltung, a "Nazi term for the process by which the Nazi regime successively established a system of totalitarian control and coordination over all aspects of society" – and its application in modern Western media.

The only thing that was vissible of the discussion was the link to the Wikipedia article on Gleichschaltung.

A few years later my late friend Jon Hellevig published a pamphlet on the Western totalitarian media regime. You can download it in PDF form from this link.

EU's Infowar On Russia - Putting In Place A Totalitarian Media Regime And Speech Control - Jon Hellevig, December 16, 2016

Also see my two pages on the Totalitarian Media Regime and on the War on Dissent.

***

In 2014 I was puzzled why my German correspondent needed to use a pseudonym. I lived in a free country and never thought of needing anonymity to express a political opinion. Furthermore, Germany was part of the democratic West, the bastion of liberty and free speech. I understood that NATO was not democratic at all. It is indicative of the state of Western democracy that almost all commenters here write under a pseudonym.

In the last nine years things have changed in Finland too. Finland has been thoroughly militarized and may soon join NATO's war on Russia. In 2013 NATO established a State Security Committee (Turvallisuuskomitea) in Finland to serve as the basis of the the NATO occupation regime in Finland. The committee publicly states that its main purpose is "yhteensovittaminen", which can best be translated as "Gleichschaltung".

Posted by: Petri Krohn | Jan 25 2023 19:53 utc | 77

defending imperialist behaviour with other imperialist behaviour? interesting

Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 18:41 utc | 44

So if Putin's behavior is an imperial one then why did he bring up the issue of NATO expansion for over a decade, try to stop it peacefully and even presented papers in December 2021 to negotiate? Please explain, thank you.

Posted by: Zet | Jan 25 2023 19:54 utc | 78

Pierrot @ 39

Today, Yahoo is claiming on french channels that the Wagner group has lost 80% of its 50K fighters and is on the verge of collapse.

Stop looking at it as idiocy but psyops against their own western public, Mark Sloboda on youtube today had a pointed comment, the media isn't a neutral, objective observer, they are an actor in the conflict. Seems obvious but it helps to write it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLUINdHFKl0

That Russia’s “star team” Wagner is on the verge of collapse is to sell the escalation, just one final push, just a handful of tanks, relax pay no attentions to the hundreds of MBT and APCs we are about to pour in, no chance of starting a war with Russia - they are on the verge of collapse, as we told you. Pure double think brain washing incrementalism.

I posted this on the tail end of the last thread, bit OT but worth seeing, arriving now not a year from now, vid link below. Tank Fiesta of the last two weeks was just a con to open the NATO flood gate.

Large echelons of Abrams tanks and Bradley BMPs spotted in Poland en route to the east. Biden's statement about transferring tanks to Ukraine is not been news for a long time. The decision has been taken in advance, and his speech with pathetic rhetoric is nothing but dust in the eyes of voters.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/30613

Also recent, from a trickle to flood. They better hurry reading through the TG channels the AFU really do look on the verge of collapse, at least along the battle lines.

US will hand over to Ukraine, along with 31 Abrams tanks, 8 M88 repair and evacuation armored vehicles. West will supply Kiev with 100s of armored vehicles, including tanks, within weeks, we expect increased Russian offensive operations in Ukraine in coming weeks - White House
https://t.me/IntelRepublic/12659

Slovakia is ready to discuss the transfer of its MiG-29s fighter aircraft to Ukraine - Slovak Defense Ministry.
https://t.me/IntelRepublic/12660

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 25 2023 20:08 utc | 79

Could it be that Berndt is some type of a psycho-masochists??? He seems to enjoy getting a good whupping by some of the posters here. Just keeps coming back for more. If he asked nice, could someone find him a more rewarding job, with better bennies and a bit more $$$?

Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 25 2023 20:10 utc | 80

nato has been in control all along.. that is why ukraine is presently f@ked... nato wouldn't have it any other way! war=money..........

Posted by: james | Jan 25 2023 17:27 utc | 11

For the collective Waste, Ukraine is Russia afterall, so the mass killing of Ukrainians at the cost of one tenth as many Russians is all profitable!
They run laughing out loud all the way to the bank.

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jan 25 2023 20:14 utc | 81

Posted by: fanto | Jan 25 2023 18:39 utc | 43
"So, it seems to me that it was staged."

Of course it was staged, most of it. Some of the actors are actual Wagner PMC (one allegedly died recently in the fighting). What is different from Hollywood is that live ammo was used by the tanks and AFVs when shown firing at buildings. Probably some found footage used for certain scenes of artillery, etc. What is important is that everything analysts have talked about regarding the tactics, the artillery duels, etc. are clearly shown in the movie.

The only part I found "Hollywood-like" was the amount of ammo expended without hitting anyone. OTOH, it's statistically a fact that scores of thousands of rounds are expended to achieve one casualty - between 100,000 and 300,000 rounds per casualty historically. I have seen videos from the 2014 Donbass conflict which showed soldiers firing entire magazines around the corner of a building in the general direction of a sniper position, so I have no doubt this kind of utter waste of ammunition is commonplace, unlike the TV shows like "Seal Team" where SEALS expend perhaps two or three rounds per casualty - and never miss.

Posted by: oldhippie | Jan 25 2023 19:24 utc | 61

My understanding is that it was filmed in Ukraine at an actual unspecified city where fighting had taken place earlier in the war. Clearly filmed during the summer, not winter, so your observations on that are correct compared to conditions now.

- RSH

Posted by: CharlesLutherThanos | Jan 25 2023 20:15 utc | 82

Seems like yet another day dealing with those critters who emerge from underneath bridges. Some of them appear to be mosquitos, others midges and still others houseflies. All summed up, they are definitively pests.

Posted by: aistodemos | Jan 25 2023 20:15 utc | 83

The one calling himself Andreas is hyperactive today. Reminds me of a young colt just released from a couple months with mama in the barn (the training center under the big bridge) and released on a bright spring morning to romp and scamper in the fresh green grass.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 25 2023 20:19 utc | 84

I'm guessing the next step would be delivering F-16 Fighting Falcon, F-15E Strike Eagle, F-CK-1 Ching-Kuo, JAS 39 Gripen, F-2, Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon to deplete its vassals' stocks of multirole combat aircrafts for to sell F-35 Lightning II.

Posted by: Rossiya | Jan 25 2023 20:22 utc | 85

The so-called “Tank shipment problem within NSTO” has no any evidence, even app. 100 Leos would be sent to the front (driven by what specialised NSTO/German officers/soldiers.
That’s no threat against RF, even some month later after having launched those tanks to this war.
The RF’s real problem is and will be only the ongoing supply of rocket systems incl. ammunitions a la HIMARS etc. and longer range capaple missiles.
That is mid-term strategy for the US future, always shooting towards RF targets via its proxy UKR.
Hit + hit RF territory targets, as long they can, before targeted by their own ..?
When RF would have understood that they can do the “same thing” vice versa..?
Wait, Im some sure, the reaction wont have a longer delay than Scholz+Bbock have lifetime..
or not?

Posted by: space_truth | Jan 25 2023 20:23 utc | 86

So if Putin's behavior is an imperial one then why did he bring up the issue of NATO expansion for over a decade, try to stop it peacefully and even presented papers in December 2021 to negotiate? Please explain, thank you.

Posted by: Zet | Jan 25 2023 19:54 utc | 76

Nato expansion may be bad for Russias "interests" as it may be. but countries outside its border are free to join any alliance. _Especially_ if that protect them from this type of agression that Putin's Russia shows.

Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 20:24 utc | 87

Russias invasion of Ukraine is as wrong as US invasion of Cuba at the bay of pigs.

This site used to be anti-imperialist.

now it's whitewashing imperialist crimes.

Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 20:26 utc | 88

Hope this doesn’t make the bar day worse-

Gregory H Stanton, President of Genocide Watch - the 10 stages of genocide.

1. Classification – The differences between people are not respected. There’s a division of ‘us’ and ‘them’
2. Symbolisation – This is a visual manifestation of hatred. Eg flags and badges
3. Discrimination – The dominant group denies civil rights or even citizenship to identified groups. Eg language laws
4. Dehumanisation – Those perceived as ‘different’ are with-held human rights or personal dignity. referred to as ‘cockroaches’; ‘vermin’.
5. Organisation – Genocides are always planned. Regimes train those who go on to carry out the destruction of a people.
6. Polarisation – Propaganda begins to be spread by hate groups. Newspapers, online, spread and incite messages of hate
7. Preparation – Perpetrators plan the genocide. They often use euphemisms such as ‘The Final Solution’ They create fear of the victim group, building up armies and weapons. 'go to Russia'
8. Persecution – Victims are identified because of their ethnicity or religion and death lists are drawn up. starved and property is expropriated. Genocidal massacres begin. see ICC 2014-21
9. Extermination – The hate group murders their identified victims in a deliberate and systematic campaign of violence.
10. Denial – The perpetrators or later generations deny the existence of any crime.

All these steps have been carried out to some or greater extent by Kiev against Donbass,not necessarily in the order 1-10 .
For full version
https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/

Posted by: olaf22 | Jan 25 2023 20:26 utc | 89

aristodemos | Jan 25 2023 20:10 utc | 78
Bernt-offering. Makes one comment and flees.
It amuses me when barflies reply to him 300+ comments along.
He’s not here to read or discuss.
He’s a driveby one-post-by-this-ID bot.
Barfly pearls are wasted on him.
But the rest of us might appreciate them

Posted by: Melaleuca | Jan 25 2023 20:27 utc | 90

Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 25 2023 20:19 utc | 82

no need for your type.

go back to Glavset where you come from.

Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 20:28 utc | 91

Likklemore @63

Now even the Slavic Ukrainians have been closely imitating the Pilpul pushed by their Khazarian Talmudist rulers. Their accomplishments in pretzel-logic seems to have overarched Alice in wonderland and Toto pulling the curtain revealing the actual "Wizard of Ozz". When the Ukie foreign minister totally flips the truth on its head; we can surmise that reality has been twisted faaaar beyond any concept of logic.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 25 2023 20:30 utc | 92

Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 25 2023 20:10 utc | 78

I don't seen the need to mention it when it isn't even present on this thread. Seriously.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 25 2023 20:31 utc | 93

Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 20:26 utc | 86

Youre falling in repetition, Berndt.

Posted by: alek_a | Jan 25 2023 20:31 utc | 94

jpc@ 72

Can you please explain the mental illness and hypocrisy that is the German green party ideology?

Don’t look at the Green Party as what it appears to be, don’t rationalize it as a sell out or that somehow wound up the hands of the wrong person, Baerbock. Something false can’t be hypocritical, but it can be a con. The whole thing was an opposition research, false front, or whatever the correct term is from its creation. View it as the same thing as an FBI entrapment scheme where people who would otherwise never commit a crime get set up to commit one. The German Green Party was constructed from the start to entrap people who would otherwise never support war into supporting a war.

BTW someone here a while back mentioned Petra Kelly dating a NATO general, I remember that and remember thinking, wow Europe has some cool generals. I was so in the Matrix then.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 25 2023 20:31 utc | 95

Posted by: olaf22 | Jan 25 2023 20:26 utc | 87

These criteria are so broad and vague that they could apply to anything.

Posted by: catdog | Jan 25 2023 20:31 utc | 96

Thumbs up for Best in Hell.

THUMBS DOWN for posting links to pro-war pro-censorship anti-truth youtube. As a reminder,

https://www.rt.com/russia/550727-youtube-rt-censorship

Although apparently few people even read my posts, b probably not among them, I have twice posted links that let people see Best in Hell without pro-war pro-censorship anti-truth youtube profiting from their action.

Repost:

A link to youtube without looking for alternatives essentially amounts to support for the censoring bat turds of google-youtube.

https://odysee.com/@airbornewolf:8/18+-RF-Ukraine-war-movie-The-Best-in-Hell:8
https://odysee.com/@Iceisnice11:8/%F0%9F%8E%ACPMC-Wagner---Best-in-Hell---2022-(English-subtitles):6


Oh, and btw, this might be of interest to the bar, those who don’t already know, and not a farthing will go to the coffers of google by checking it out.
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd

Posted by: Dalit | Jan 25 2023 20:33 utc | 97

To nobody (in particular) - do the 4 new Russian Oblasts and others not have that same right to join the Russian Federation?? Perhaps in the near future, maybe even Poland, Romania, Finland, and the Baltics might like to join the RF. Is that not their right?

Posted by: R3DP1LL3R | Jan 25 2023 20:33 utc | 98

If those videos about forced mobilization in Ukraine are representative: then Ukraine is scraping the barrel to find replacements for soldiers who have lost their life in the war. It is not just that Ukrainian don't look like they are ready to die for their homeland. The ones in the video don't like like they should be fighting.

If this is what's left in Ukraine, to mobilize in the eighth? ninth? tenth? round of mobilization: How are they going to win against much younger veteran fighters Russia has been recruiting in their first wave of mobilization, from a pool that is five times bigger (140 m Russian vs 40 m Ukrainians?)?

Where is Ukraine going to find soldiers to fight this summer? Next summer? in two years time?

And if not Ukraine: Where are Poland, Germany, France, Italy going to find hundreds of thousands of young, experienced fighters prepared to die for President Selenskys dream of "liberating Kremina"?

Posted by: Marvin | Jan 25 2023 20:38 utc | 99

you really wanna tell me Donbass had a scale of genocide? look at the numbers, that claim is ludicrous

Posted by: Andreas | Jan 25 2023 18:43 utc | 46

You mean the 14,000+ ethnic Russians dead at a minimum, and the vast migration into Russia of those same groups fleeing the openly Nazi shelling of them that spanned 8 years+?

You should check the UN's definition of genocide before opening your mouth. For example, what allegedly happened in Kosovo at the hands of Milosevic and other Serb leaders, involving far fewer in number. Yet that gets classified (ridiculously when you know the story) as a "genocide."

https://sputniknews.com/20220227/how-western-press-has-kept-silent-for-years-on-war-in-donbass--neo-nazism-in-ukraine-1093401313.html

https://sarahwestall.com/yes-its-true-evidence-of-genocide-crimes-against-humanity-towards-russians-in-ukraine/

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-696703

So are you open to adjusting your opinion?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 25 2023 20:38 utc | 100

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